Misc Monday
Posted: June 13th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 15 Comments »First up, the links.
New column for PE.com is about the secondary and if they can get the job done. Hard to be definitive without knowing who the RCB and SS will be for sure.
New column for SB Nation Philly is about the fact we might now have training camp and how that can benefit the offense. We always think defense when talking about the need for practice and improvement, but the offense must get better as well.
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We talked over the weekend about winning title vs great singular moments and how you balance the two out. I gave this quite a bit of thought. I haven’t come to a definitive conclusion yet on how you balance them out. I took a walk the other day (from the donut aisle to the beer aisle?) and tried to argue this idea out in my head.
You can make a case each way. It obviously is much, much easier to focus on the titles. Still, there is something to be said for great wins and epic moments. For instance, what means more to a Colts fan, beating the Bears in the Super Bowl or beating the Pats in the AFC title game? I realize that the Super Bowl title is what gives them street cred, but which game are Colts fans more likely to re-watch? The Super Bowl game wasn’t all that compelling or brilliantly played. The comeback over the Pats was an amazing game.
In a similar way, how do you compare the 2001 Pats and the 2007 Pats. One group went 16-0 in the regular season and set offensive records. The other won the Super Bowl. Does anyone truly believe that the 2001 team was anywhere near as good?
Let’s hope the Eagles do break through and finally win a Super Bowl so we can make a more informed decision.
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Good trivia question for you guys. This popped into my head during my walk the other day.
Who were the other NFC East coaches in 1999 when Andy Reid took over the Eagles? Don’t cheat and use Google. Let’s see who genuinely knows. I actually remembered all of them. At least one is pretty tough.
Fassel, Turner, Gailey, and…whoever coached the Cardinals back then.
That’s right! forgot AZ was in the East until… 2001, I think? I remember losing our last game with them (as division rivals) I think Martay Jenkins scored the winning (losing) touchdown and Na Brown dropped a wide-open TD pass.
So in summary, I can remember Martay Jenkins and Na Brown but not the Cardinals’ coach.
Good job, Big Don. I thought Chan Gailey would be the tough coach to get.
The Cards coach isn’t a gimme.
@ mattman…
That loss was early in ’01. We won the re-match. That was a heartbreaker. I think that was just before the bye week. Over the year’s we’ve had a bunch of let down games going into the bye.
Arizona must have been … cripes, the brother of the Colts’ GM who got into it with Mel Kiper. Damn, can’t remember their names. Tobin maybe?
Last name is correct. First name?
Ugh. Bill was the GM, I think, because I always forget that Bill Tobin and Bill Polian are different people. But the coach … got nothing. Feeling the urge to cheat, so I will just confess that I can’t remember the first name.
Vince Tobin?
VINCE. That’s it. Damn.
Vince succeeded Buddy Ryan as DC of the Bears and then later succeeded Buddy as HC of the Cards.
I hope Buddy never gets divorced.
In regard to your question of moments v wins, just ask yourself how you feel about Sheldon brown’s hit on Reggie Bush. It’s a great play, and I love watching it because it’s the hardest (clean) shot I’ve ever seen, but in the end, the guy on the ground got the W.
In the end, a W legitimizes everything you did, and everything you went through. Even a terrible win (Steelers v Seahawks) legitimizes the well played, exciting losses, because there is a feeling that it all built to something when you finally win the big one.
I think that’s what will always sting about McNabb’s time in Philly. All of the dirt balls, missed slant passes, and verbal gaffes would have been alright if he had just hung on and won. All those infuriating things would have seemed trivial because they would have seemed part of a longer, more fulfilling journey. As they are now, they are the destination.
I actually think McNabb is a poor example for this argument. It’s true that he never won the big game, but it’s also true that there were forces beyond the gridiron that fueled the negative perspective on Donovan. There’s no need to start THAT discussion again, though.
It’s difficult to have these debates over legacy and importance when we’re living in the moment. It’s even more difficult now that every moment of every pre-game, game, and post-game is recorded and scrutinized in real time.
I was there for 4th and 26. Will never forget it. I was there for 44-6 against Dallas. Maybe the best football day I’ve ever experienced, taking into account all of the improbable pieces that had to fall into place, the utter domination of the Cowboys, and that it was the first game I ever took my son to. But, I can’t help feeling that their significance suffers in the end because they didn’t lead to the ultimate promised land. In the moment, they were amazing. I wouldn’t trade them for anything–except maybe a Super Bowl win.
Cliff, my aim was not to disparage McNabb’s legacy, because I am very glad that he was here, and I would not trade his time here for anything. I think what I’m trying to say is that despite all logic, and despite the negativity not being his fault, it still takes a lot of luster off of his time in Philly when there was no final triumph to justify the frustration. Is it fair? No. It sucks, but that’s just the way it is.
The last few comments make great points. Mine probably won’t live up, as I’m not sure how I feel … but I do know that there are *several* Eagles seasons that had that magical feeling to them and never panned out.
(2002-last game at Vet, had to be us; 2003-everyone was hurt but we kept winning; 2004-we were dominant and T.O. was coming back; 2006-Garcia all the way!; 2008-The Cardinals can’t possibly stop us; 2010-After the Miracle in the Meadowlands, Vick is leading us all the way!)
Looking at the sum of all those moments, it’s been a great ride as an Eagles fan, especially since I started following hard when Tommy did, in about ’90. Basically every year except a few under Kotite and Rhodes and Reid’s first and ’05, we start with an honest belief we can win it all and we have an extraordinary journey along the way where we are entertained and exhiliarated, and then sometime in January it ends with a thud.
I don’t think those thuds undo all the fun we had. On BGN we did some 10 best moments of the Reid Era threads and there were 15-18 legit candidates. Best Westbrook memories, we all have a handful off top. I mean, it’s been a great ride.
The Super Bowl — and I firmly believe having watched all my childhood Boston Red Sox friends suffer and then be overjoyed in ’04 — would serve to validate all the pain we go through after the thuds. It would also be a thrill to have the generic Eagles insult vanish off the face of the earth as we gloat.
But whether our day comes in 2012 or 2019, we’ll always have 4th & 26 and B-Dawk and 44-6 and M@MII and Westbrook and McNabb’s pass to Freddie Mitchell in Dallas and that fourth-down stand against the Giants in the playoffs and Vick and … countless other great, great times, many off the field. It’s been so rewarding that it’s silly that the outcome of one game changes how we view all that.
I often think of how so many ’04 Eagles would be Gods in this town if they had scored more points than the Pats that day. The defense dominated the first half. The offense went up and down the field. They just didn’t win … but if they had, Owens could have finished his career here. McNabb and Dawkins might still be Eagles. Jevon Kearse would not be considered a bust as an Eagle. Hollis Thomas would own Philly. (Okay, pushing it)
All these moments and memories are great no matter if we win or lose. Or are they?