First Stab at the Final 53
Posted: August 24th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 57 Comments »I’ve been putting it off for a while, but figured it was time to finally unveil my initial guess at the 53-man roster. Here goes:
QB (3) : Vick, Young, Kafka
RB (4): McCoy, Brown, Lewis, Schmitt
WR (5): Jackson, Maclin, Avant, Smith, Cooper
TE (3): Celek, Harbor, Lee
OT (4): Peters, Dunlap, Justice, Howard
OG (3): Herremans, Watkins, Mathis
OC (2): Jackson, Kelce
That is 24 players on offense.
DE (5): Cole, Babin, Parker, Tapp, Teo
DT (5): Patterson, Jenkins, Dixon, Hargrove, Landri
LB (6): Chaney, Matthews, Fokou, Clayton, Rolle, Jordan
S (4): Allen, Coleman, Page, Jarrett
CB (6): Asomugha, Samuel, DRC, Hanson, Marsh, Hughes
That is 26 players on defense.
STs (3): Henery, Henry, Dorenbos
Okay, so now for the logic behind some of the decisions. I only kept 5 WRs. No one player has established himself as such a good RS that he absolutely forces you to keep him. My thinking is that a backup RB (Brown or Lewis) can be the primary KOR. Jackson and Maclin can split the PR duties.
Some people might see me as being careless with RS. Here’s what makes that so tricky. Say we keep Moss/Hall/Higgins…that guy would have to be the 5th WR on gameday. That means Riley Cooper, our lone big WR, is inactive. I hate the notion of Cooper sitting.
Lewis didn’t see RS duty in college, but did some in high school. The Eagles want to work him in there in the next couple of weeks. If he could be the KOR, that would be great. Maclin has KOR experience from Mizzou. If 50 to 60 percent of KOs are going to be touchbacks anyway, I hate to devote a roster spot for just that.
I kept Lee as a 3rd TE. I don’t expect him to be active. He’s here as an insurance policy. Lee is here as a luxury item. He is expendable.
No Ryan Harris? I just don’t think you can trust his back right now.
Center is a position that has me curious. If we go with Kelce, do we keep Jackson around as veteran insurance at G and C? Would he go for that? I would not be surprised to see the Eagles go find some other veteran cut by another team who is a better fit for the Mudd system. Mike McGlynn seems to have really fallen from favor.
I hated cutting DE Phillip Hunt, but the thing is that we don’t need him. Graham is on the PUP list. If someone gets hurt, Graham can jump back in at midseason. Also, we’re not all that old at DE. Cole and Babin should play a few more years at a high level. Tapp isn’t old. Teo is young and so is Graham. Hunt is Practice Squad material. You risk losing him, but right now he’s the odd man out.
Why keep Derek Landri over Trevor Laws? Just seemed like the right thing to do. Landri reminds me of Paul Grasmanis. You can put him in the game at any time and know you’ll get maximum effort. He can start or come off the bench. We can only count on playing 4 DTs. Laws wouldn’t be one of those 4. Keep Landri. Try to trade Laws.
The only question at LB is whether we cut Akeem Jordan and add a veteran. I’m sort of hoping that’s what happens, but keeping Jordan wouldn’t be a terrible move. He is a good STer.
I hated to cut Colt Anderson, but decided to go heavy at CB. That meant only 4 Safeties could stick around. Colt is a great STer and would be a good PS candidate. He’s definitely hurt by the new kickoff rule.
CB is mostly obvious. I did make one move of note, cutting Trevard Lindley and keeping Brandon Hughes. I like Hughes better. The smart move may be to keep Lindley and then try to get Hughes on the PS. That would help you stay as deep as possible. I didn’t totally rule out trading Joselio Hanson. I kept him around due to his experience and the fact he can fill in at Safety if needed.
If possible, my Practice Squad would be:
WR Rod Harper
WR Gerald Jones
WR/RB Chad Hall
OG Julian Vandervelde
DT Cedric Thornton
DT Marlon Favorite
DE Phillip Hunt
S Colt Anderson
The big thing to keep in mind when looking at the roster and P-Squad list is that these will be greatly affected by the final 2 preseason games. DE Phillip Hunt could play his way on the roster. DT Marlon Favorite could play his way off the PS. And so on. That final game will be huge for who gets the last couple of spots on the roster and definitely who makes the PS.
how can you keep howard and not harris..makes no sense to me..
agree with everything on defense except i would take a chance on hunt and let the vet parker go
very good job overall
I like Ryan Harris, but I’m not sure when he’ll be able to play again. He’s seeing a back specialist now. That sure doesn’t sound good. And he’s only got a week of practices and handful of snaps under his belt.
Cutting Parker is tempting, but I kept him since we’re making a Super Bowl push and DE is a critical position.
Why does Maclin look like he left the oven on at home when he is Returning kicks?
One of life’s great mysteries is how Maclin was such a dynamic returner in college and looks so awkward in the NFL. I don’t get it.
I did think he showed some progress last year, but we have yet to see the guy who did all those awesome things at Missouri.
The good news is that he’s a more polished WR than I ever expected this early.
I know it is affected by position, but who are your 53rd and 54th players? Sounds like Jordan/Lee/Landri for 53 and Anderson or Hunt for 54?
Very good job Tommy.
In fact I agree with everything, except for keeping JP. I think the eagles rather try to trade JP and keep Hunt. Of course a lot will depend on the next two pre season games. Also I could see the eagles keep 6 WR and 2 TE while putting Ingram or Webb on the practice squad.
While there are players I would like to see kept, it’s hard to find someone to cut in order to make room. I do think we might cut Tapp or Parker since both have a relatively high salary.
Isn’t OG rather light with only 3?
And I could be wrong but doesn’t Cromatie have return experience?
I’m more than a little worried about that hole at right tackle.
Any ideas for a Vet losing a battle somewhere, that we might be able to bring in for a pick?
I fully understand the concern with Ryan Harris, and I don’t necessarily disagree with cutting him, but with Justice also being hurt, and Dunlap and Howard both being still question marks, do you think the Eagles keep Harris (or Wells for that matter) over keeping Lee? The only time I remember they really got any use out of a third TE was when Mike Bartrum was the long snapper, and even then, he only saw very limited snaps in goal line situations. Seems to me, if you are going to have a “luxury” player, he might as well be at a position that has bigger question marks associated with it.
As for Philip Hunt, I think if after the next two preseason games, Te’o, Tapp, and Hunt are close (which I think they are right now), Hunt is the odd man out, but as you mentioned, I do think that is definitely a spot that can be earned (or lost) in these next two games.
Finally, I agree with the fact that it’s tough to cut Colt Anderson, but to me, there is no question that Page has played well enough so far to have earned a spot on the roster. Once that happened, Anderson became to much of a luxury on a team that has a lot of talent.
Is the Big Kid available still… or is the need not desperate/hell not chilly enough yet…
Lee would be on my bell squad. TEs are easy to find. Give a guy like Thorton instead.
Trade Laws. Parker cut or traded. No dedicated RS is fine by me with the new (stupid) rule.
Trade VY for Pryor. Kafka to backup QB.
IR Nate?
yeah! put our starting SS on the IR great idea…
#53 would be Landri or Lee
#54 would probably be Anderson
RE: light at OG
We would be light there, but the backup C should be able to fill in as well. You definitely keep a G/C on the P Squad and then that guy can be added to the roster right after an injury. You aren’t going into many games with 4 OGs active.
RE: DRC as returner
He does have college experience. Haven’t heard him talked about so I’m guessing the coaches don’t want him there. Shame. He’s fast and has real good hands.
I had 24 on O as well, but a tenth OL, Vandervelde instead of Lee. The inside routes will go to Avant, Smith and the other 2 TEs. I would sign Webb or Ingram, if possible, for the PS as insurance.
I had 24 on D as well
At DE, I think they will keep 4 and trade or waive Parker. I would try and add Hunt to the PS and expect GRaham in 6 weeks.
At DT, I envision 6, your 4 plus Thornton and Laws instead of Landri.
I would keep 5 LBs, waive Jordan, and sign 1 or 2 to the PS, from their team or another.
I would keep 5 CBs and your 4 Ss. If Hughes can play the slot, I would keep him and try to trade Hanson
I would keep 5 specialists-the 2 kickers, Doronbos, Anderson and a returner, either Higgons, Moss or Hall.
Anderson is too good a ST player not to keep over a 6th LB. With the questionable health of Smith and Maclin, I think Cooper will be active for the first few weeks. If someone else steps up as a returner, they can drop Higgons/Moss/Hall.
RE: keeping 3 TEs / Lee
As I said, luxury move. You can always find guys on the street, but Lee would be a real nice insurance policy.
Plus, you have to have 7 guys inactive every week. Lee is good for this. We wouldn’t play 3 TEs. One of the guys would sit. Lee isn’t as good as Celek so he wouldn’t play ahead of him and Lee isn’t as good at STer as Harbor so he wouldn’t play ahead of him.
One of the tricks in putting together a roster is figuring out which 46 guys will play on Sunday and which 7 will sit.
@ mcud…
Trade VY for Pryor? No thanks. No interest in Terrelle as a QB for us.
No way Nate goes to IR. He hasn’t looked that bad.
Thornton is a guy to really watch in the next 2 weeks. A real strong showing could earn him a spot, but I’ve got a feeling that the Eagles would love to put him on the PS so he can develop for a year. Talented, but raw.
@ Marty…
Interesting stuff. You’re keeping some good guys, but how are you going to get everyone on the field. If Anderson plays, what Safety sits? The easy answer is Jarrett, but he might already be a better S than Anderson and could be a very good STs player himself.
If I were Jeremy Maclin, I wouldn’t want to return kicks in the NFL either. He’s not DeSean Jackson, who makes it on explosiveness and the ability to make Wiley Coyote fall off cliffs. Maclin has to work at being a WR, he needs to be technically better than everyone else, and he needs to be healthy to do that. On top of that, he’s never going to get paid for his returning ability.
The best thing he can do for himself, and the Eagles in the long run, is work on being a WR and stay out of the kicking game. Jerry Rice didn’t return kicks.
wow mine looks exactly the same. only difference is im cutting Lee and adding a 7th, veteran linebacker.
wish i could find a spot for hunt. maybe keep six De’s instead of six corners?
If we sign Shaun Andrews, we can merge his and Harris’ back and maybe get 1 RT?
I don’t understand the bandwagon on Teo. I understand he was a high pick and you just send them packing, but I think Hunt has shown more. Teo seems like a wasted high pick, could have been grabbed in the 5th round instead The next two games are critical for those two. Hunt just seems so much more smooth than Teo coming off the edge.
Would be extremely sad to see Hunt and Thornton go to PS and getting picked up by other teams… Here’s hoping we trade Hanson and JP for some picks and open up two roster spots…
That would probably be the best practice squad I have ever seen. I’d rather keep Hunt over Parker and probably Laws over Hargrove.
Tommy,
Meant to put a wink sign on the VY for Pryor thing. Its my way of saying Vince shouldnt make the team. If Vick were to miss Week 3, would u be more comfortable with VY or Mike?
Nate to IR if the knee isnt healed. More of a question than a comment. I’m worried he’s rushing back. He still has pain?
Tommy,
what are your thoughts about the DT rotation?
do you think the ‘normal’ front is going to mix one of Patterson/Dixon with one of Jenkins/Hargrove/other?
i would imagine that on short yardage or running downs, we’d go with Patterson & Dixon at the same time and then on passing downs we’d go with Jenkins & Hargrove.
what do you think?
@mcud – if Nate’s knee isnt healed by the start of the season, can’t he still be put on PUP, potentially playing after a few weeks or is it too late for that?
With the new active roster/#3 QB rule change, do you think we keep Kafka active, or do we risk keeping 2 QB’s? Would be nice to get an extra game-day spot, but with how reckless Vick and Young sometimes play we may end up regretting it.
I’d say screw it, put Kafka in street clothes.
@RogerPodacter
No PUP for players who have practiced.
@mcud: Based on the pre-season so far, Kafka is looking better than VY. Gotta think that part of that is down to familiarity with the offence though. VY has improved quite a bit since he arrived.
To answer your question, though, if Vick were to miss Week 3, I’d probably rather Kafka stepped in. If Vick were to miss Week 10, though, I think it’ll be a much harder decision.
There’s also the (slim) possibility that we do a Miami and lose both Vick and Kafka. VY must be the best #3 QB in the league, we’ve got to keep him 😉
@ MF Joe…
Spinal Fusion surgery in order to create a hybrid RT? Of course I’m all for that. I support it in the name of science. The fact it benefits the Eagles is merely coincidence.
I’m reminded of a scene from The Man With Two Brains. “If I have to kill 10 people to save one life, it’s worth it!”
RE: Teo
For: bigger than Hunt…versatile…can play DT or DE…has potential to be starting DE if he develops well
Against: hasn’t shown special pass rush ability…injuries in each season have slowed progress…lacks explosion
Hunt left Houston several years ago. He spent 2010 in the CFL where he was playing against marginal competition. He’s had a chance to hone his game. Teo was on the bench in Philly. He didn’t exactly have a great DL coach. I think Teo has shown enough to warrant keeping him around. Ideal situation would be to be able to IR him and keep Hunt.
RE: Laws vs Hargrove
Trevor might play this week. He better be ready for the Jets game. He’ll need a great showing in one or the other to help his cause. Jim Washburn can only judge Trevor on what he’s seen and that’s not much.
Hargrove has his issues, but he is quick and relentless as interior rusher. Disruptive player. Ready to contribute.
I’ll write up some thoughts on Vince vs Kafka.
RE: DT rotation
#1 – I’d go with Patt at LDT, Cullen at RDT.
#2 – Then Dixon at LDT and Hargrove at RDT.
I think we should remember that the new kickoff rule will still result in a fair number of kicks returned – especially once the weather turns cold. I think the numbers I saw were that 79% of kicks were returned in 2010 and the expectation is that 60% will be returned with the new rule.
I’m also sure I saw some comments from Belichek that teams might start trying to take it out from the end zone, and that kicking teams might start trying to drop it inside the five to pin teams deep.
It’s comments like these that make me think that we underestimate the value of ST plays at our peril. I know it’s hard to balance the roster, but I’d really love if we could find a way to keep Anderson and a dedicated RS.
They say that Henery has a high trajectory on his kicks – imagine the ball hanging in the air and Colt dropping a guy inside the 5-yard line.
I’m not as in love with Hunt as a lot of other fans. I feel like he might just be this year’s version of the flavor of the month.
It’d be awesome if I was wrong though.
This is unrelated to the post, but I was wondering if you could shed some light on Kirk Morrison and why he wasn’t picked up until today. What intangibles would have (or have not) made him a fit in the eagles system?
Coolest thing ESPN has ever done: http://es.pn/pQOgta
Tommy , No way they can cut Laws. If big Mike Patterson goes down with a seizure . You will need a back up plan. I think the Eagles need to go light some where else not DT. Maybe TE. You dont need 3 TE.
Yep , I’ve took a minute to think about it Tommy and I’m still stuck on 5 DT’s
Maclin left the oven on after his initiation to the NFL on a KOR in the first preaseason game of 2009. If you can find a video of it you will understand why the cookies aren’t done.
I generally agree with your picks. I do think there’s an outside shot we keep Hall as the 6th WR. You could have him active on gameday over Dion Lewis who might need some seasoning before being ready to contribute. Hall could be your emergency RB. Keeping 6 WRs would mean going short on another position. TE is more likely but I wouldn’t be surprised if they only keep 8 and then try to get better scheme fits to develop on the PS. Or put Howard there if he clears waivers.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Parker gets cut and they keep both Te’o and Hunt. Remember that both Jenkins and Hargrove have the potential to play some DE. It gives you a little flexibility in constructing your 46 man roster as you know one of the DTs could help out at end in a pinch. You’d still probably have 4 DEs active with Hunt over Te’o. At 6-0, 248 Hunt should have some special teams ability. Almost like a 7th LB. Or 6th if we go short and only keep 5. That’s unlikely, but not beyond the realm of possibility.
I’d also really like to see a lot of Martell Webb in the 4th preseason game. I’m not sold on keeping 3 TEs and would want to see if Webb is a viable PS candidate. I believe reading that he played some FB in college and we could use a swing TE/FB on the PS. I’ve pretty much given up hope on Ingram ever contributing.
It’s silly to do this before the last exhibition game this year.
No OTAs and a short training camp has meant that players aren’t following a normal progression.
Just look at Dunlap, I was ready to cut him after the first exhibition game, now he’s their best RT after the Steeler game.
FAs have only practiced two weeks, rookies three weeks with no preparation, so you may see some guys jump out the next two weeks and take you by surprise. In normal seasons, most players have weeded themselves out for good or evil, this year a lot of players may just be hitting their stride by Thursday night.
The only thing sillier than doing this, Austinfan, is trying to convince us not to..
Cuts may line up for the Rams on opening day.
What I like about Hunt is that he can come in on 3rd down, and they don’t have anyone else that fits that size and description. If Te’o outplays him the next two weeks so be it.
I believe in having some sort of punt returner that can grab punts, saving DJax for clutch situations. I prefer Moss, because he also has the potential to develop into a WR that has a few good years. The Smith injury may force them to keep 6 WR, and they’ll probably grab a 6th at some point.
Colt Anderson can be on the Eagles this year or the Cowboys. Your choice. I want him on the Eagles. The only knock against him as an actual safety is that he’s unproven and small school. He’s smart and a form tackler, which is one of the reasons I was unexcited about using a 2nd on Jarrett. That said, I have no doubts that Jarrett will also be a ST stud. Allen could be put on PUP. IR may not be a bad idea with Page starting.
I still think 5 LBs is the way to go, not sure which backup you cut.. you can make an argument for either of them. I also don’t think keeping Lee is necessary. So you don’t have to PUP Allen, or you can PUP him and keep a 10th OL (Vanderwelde or McGlynn), or another DL (Te’o or Favorite).
I hope someone other than the Giants sign Lindley
Tommy, as ian no 2 suggested, I’d hate to see some of these cuts end up on division rivals. Which bubble players do you think Howie could get picks for, rather than just cutting them?
For example, I’m thinking that if they like both of Teo/Hunt and Marsh/Lindley, then the team will try to trade Parker and/or Hanson (both of which would also free up some cap space).
Which of the more marginal players might we be able to turn into picks?
About as solid a list as possible with two weeks left. I have to think that Chad Hall makes the final 53 and we keep six wide receivers though. Whether he deserves it or not, the coaches seem to absolutely love him.
It would be mutually beneficial to trade VY to B’more 4 Tyrod Taylor. Kafka would only get better with more snaps being the 2nd string, Vick would take Taylor under his wings the same way McCoy is doing with Lewis, they’re already close, we’d be getting a great rookie with a few yrs. on his contract vs. 1 with Vick then nothing in return, lower salary cap and my guess is better team chemistry due partly to Taylor’s high character.
Ravens lost there veteran backup the last minute which they need and would be greatly upgraded. VY might even take over the starting job and improve their offense in a huge way.
Best trade for both teams; VY to Ravens 4 Tyrod Taylor.
Tommy,
Any reason that you decided to keep Howard over Vandervelde who seems like a much better scheme fit? I understand the uncertainty with RT, but does Howard help that situation all that much? You have King, Evan Mathis as a back up, Herremans can kick outside, and Justice who will be coming off the PUP list. soon. Plus in a pinch we can always re-sign Wells if Howard gets claimed by another team.
Cut Lee, add Ingram to PS. 2 TE’s.
Keep Ryan Harris at RT. If he doesn’t pan out by week 4, pay him his salary and cut him.
Give Trevor Laws the chance to beat out Landri, but I agree – keep 5 DTs.
Try to get Rolle on the practice squad. He’s not going to contribute this year. Keep 5 LB.
Keep Lindley and Hughes – 7 CB.
I want Vince Young returning punts.
I’m of the belief that this year we may only carry 5 LBs.
1) Our #5S > #6 LB. Anderson > Jordan/Jeanty
2) ST are devalued, so LB is less important. Even then, for the snaps that DO matter, Anderson is key (you can bench Jarrett).
3) If LBs get hurt in-game (more than 2, which is unlikely), you can easily play Jarrett as an LB.
4) It’s easier to find LBs off a PS than DBs.
5) You can probably sign Akeem Jordan in week 5 if necessary. Anderson is making another team before week 1
We’re going to play a lot of 4-2-5 this year anyway, so we likely won’t need 6 DBs.
@ian no. 2
you had the same idea as me re: Nate to PUP.
i was informed by some more knowledgeable posters than myself that once you have practiced, you can’t go on PUP anymore.
Tommy – your thoughts on this article by Lew Bowen – I thought he made some good points
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20110825_Les_Bowen_.html
Do you think we will see another round of musical chairs being played out this season with the LB’s?? I guess the brass felt Kirk Morrison was not worth it??
Tommy – your thoughts on the LB article by Les Bowen on philly.com- I thought he made some good points
Do you think we will see another round of musical chairs being played out this season with the LB’s?? I guess the brass felt Kirk Morrison was not worth it??
Agree on the logic behind KOR. Just not as big a need. However, isn’t Smith still on the PUP? Since both he and Maclin will not be 100%, wouldn’t it make sense to let Smith stay their and keep a 5th WR that can also be the KOR until Smith is eligible to come off the PUP?
I am not sold at all on Landri. Yes, he reminds me of Grasmanis as well but on a few plays last week, he reminded me of Simoneau trying to take on an OG as well.
Isn’t Landri a candidate for the PS? Assuming Laws can get back on the field for the last preseason game, I would tell them they have a straight up battle. Tie goes to Laws because of PS eligibility. I don’t think Laws has any trade value.
That’s a pretty darn good practice squad. If the eagles kept lee I would think that meant they aren’t very happy w harbor or they r changingthings up
Not sure who the ‘fake IR’ guy(s) will be.
Injuries may force a 5th DT but I’d prefer if Thornton could be the 5th DT on the PS. TeO or Tapp could be moved inside if needed.
6th LB would be useful for ST. Jordan might be worth keeping just for his experience and versatility.
Trading Hanson sounds good but everything I have read indicates he is excellent in the slot (likely better than any of the ‘stud’ CBs in that position). If Hanson could get at 3rd Rd pick okay, but for a 6th I’d rather keep him. I thought he was good on ST also.
I agree on the OL. I thought McGlynn would make it over JJackson before camp started. Sounds like Eagles like Mathis versatility but if he is not gameday active, would it be better to keep a younger guy. I could see Howard getting cut but doubt he’d last on PS.
I do like Hall for gameday versatility as well. I guess it depends on ST usefulness of Lewis. Hall would be 5th WR, 3rd RB, and backup RS. I think Cooper and Avant are good for ST. If Smith is off PUP he might be inactive.