Wild Wednesday
Posted: August 3rd, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 55 Comments »This was not a good morning to be an Eagles fan. DT Mike Patterson collapsed and had a seizure. DT Trevor Laws was taken off the field. Initial reports talked about his knee. And poor Victor Abiamiri got hurt once again. Someone please tell that man to quit trying to out-do Correll Buckhalter, Derrick Burgess, and Jerome McDougle.
The good news is that Patterson is okay. He’s spending the night in the hospital, but that’s for preventative reasons. He’ll hopefully be back at practice in a day or two. Patt was joking with people at the hospital so that should give you a sense that things are progressing well.
Laws had a hip flexor injury. I don’t think a timetable was issued on him yet, but anything that isn’t a knee injury or high ankle sprain is great news. Trevor hopefully will return to practice in a few days, or sooner.
Abiamiri got the short end of the stick. He was in a walking boot and on crutches. Ouch. The team will give him a chance to get better, but VA has got to get back on the field to have any hope of earning a roster spot. I was pleased with the progress he showed at DT, but this injury definitely puts him behind the eight ball.
The injuries leave the Eagles shorthanded at DT. To remedy that the team signed Derek Landri and Anthony Hargrove. These guys aren’t your typical camp bodies. Landri started all 16 games for the Panthers last year and had 3 sacks, 7 TFLs. He started 30 games for the Jaguars in the first 3 years of his career. He is a 1-gap DT that specializes in getting upfield and being disruptive. He isn’t someone you want starting, but could be an effective backup. Ideally he’s here as an insurance policy and that’s it, but if injuries happen, you would be okay with him as a backup.
Hargrove is very interesting. He’s played DE and DT. Real turd early on his career. Lots of issues. Things got so bad he was out of the league in 2008 due to a suspension. The Saints gave him a chance in 2009 and he was a terrific role player for them. Played DT and had 5 sacks. He was a very disruptive interior force for them. Anthony kept his nose clean and returned to the team in 2010. He wasn’t as good, but still was an effective role player. Hargrove is only 6’3, 275 or so. He is purely a backup DT, but he could be a good role player in our system. Adam Caplan mentioned on Twitter that the Eagles had been checking Hargrove out even prior to today’s injuries.
The man who has the big opportunity is UDFA Cedric Thornton. I had a mid-round grade on him, but some character stuff pushed him off draft boards. The Eagles really like what they’ve seen and think he can be a good NFL player. Thornton now has a chance to get more reps and really stand out. Let’s hope he takes advantage of that.
* * * * *
Dave Spadaro said something interesting on Eagles Live. He made mention the team might be looking to extend/adjust the contract of a current player who signed an extension early on. Later in the show he mentioned Trent Cole as a possibility. I hope the Eagles do that. Trent is underpaid, but doesn’t say a word about it to the media or public. Not sure what he says behind closed doors. Trent deserves a pay bump if anyone does.
Spadaro also said he’s been very impressed with CB Brandon Hughes so far in camp. No one will ever confuse Dave with Ron Wolf or Bucko Kilroy, but it is still interesting to hear him say that. In 2002 and 2003 the Eagles had Troy, Bobby, Lito, and Sheldon. That was a stacked set of CBs. Nnamdi, Asante, DRC, Hanson, Marsh, Lindley, and Hughes may be the best 1-7 set of CBs in team history. If Hughes continues to impress, does that signal the end for Hanson? Does the team think highly enough of Hughes to be comfortable trading Asante? Hughes impressed me a lot in the season finale last year. Can’t wait to see him in the preseason opener.
Someone asked about Marlin Jackson and Dave said he’s looked rusty. I also thought Marlin looked rusty. He was struggling in the 1-on-1 cover drills. Those are tough when it is WR/Safety, but Jackson was having major issues. Maybe this is the end for him.
Oddball reminder – someone talked about Nate Allen’s recovery and mentioned how guys struggle coming off knee injuries. That is true, but remember that Nate didn’t tear his ACL. He had a torn patellar tendon. Coming back from those isn’t the same as rehabbing a torn ACL. Nate might be close to 100% this year.
* * * * *
Danny Watkins saw time with the starters at RG. He was in and out of the lineup as they shuffled players around. Jason Kelce has been getting some reps with the starters at Center. I wonder how much of this is experimentation by Mudd and how much is just guys getting shuffled around due to circumstances.
Speaking of O-lineman…Stacy Andrews is a Giant. Weird. He’s got the talent. He checked out mentally last year after we cut Shawn. Stacy has never been a pure football player. He’s a big guy that gravitated to the game because he could make a lot of money. I don’t blame him for that, but it does give him a different mindset when the going gets rough. Some guys never want to leave the game. Others only come back for the cash money. He is better suited for the Giants power run game than our pass happy offense. Still, I have my doubts about whether he has what it takes to make it anymore.
* * * * *
There was a report from a Boston writer that the Eagles made an offer to Randy Moss that he turned down. Several Eagles beat writers mentioned that this wasn’t true. The Eagles may have called Moss, but no offer was made. If there are injuries at WR, I would not be shocked to see the Eagles make a run at Moss. He’s now retired, but that can be un-done with a fax or email.
Here’s an article about Hargrove and his background. At the time, rumors had him signing with the Bears.
http://whodatdish.com/2011/08/02/new-orleans-saints-versatile-dl-anthony-hargrove-signs-with-bears/
This article mentions that Hargrove was 290 when he played DT. He’s down at 280 now and would like to play some DE.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/07/new_orleans_saints_defensive_l_6.html
For what it’s worth – the report about us looking into picking up Moss seems pretty convenient with DeSean holding out. I don’t know enough about the Birds’ FO to say that they’re doing it to spur DeSean back to camp but if that’s the case, the situation is probably worse than everyone in the media seems to think. (I.e., everyone is treating it as a non-issue.)
Any word on how serious it is? Obviously DeSean would be in the lineup no matter what, as long as he shows up to play, but what if his demands seem too high for the FO and they want to signal that they can pick up a new, legitimate #1 WR if DeSean doesn’t ultimately show up for good?
Hargrove and Antonio Dixon have very similar experiences of childhood – they’ll have plenty to talk about.. great to see Dixon succeed here..
Just to clarify, I don’t think this is the case, but I do think that if negotiations with DeSean and Rosenhaus are not going well, leaking/starting a Moss-to-Eagles rumor is the best way the FO could start playing hardball.
Tommy, thanks for writing up these two guys and also for addressing the Moss rumors. Love his talent, but can’t see how he wouldn’t be a distraction and we can’t sign everybody, can we?
Have you by any chance heard any DeSean Jackson rumors? I was hoping he’d be in camp with a shiny new deal by now. At what point should we worry?
@ anirudh…
Randy Moss isn’t a #1 WR anymore. He showed that last year.
He would come here as a Red Zone threat and role player. I just don’t know if Randy could buy into that. Maybe. He’s an odd cat and trying to figure him out will just confuse you.
If DJax or Mac gets hurt, he’s definitely getting a call.
DJax should be at TC by early next week…if not sooner. I think he knows that the way to an extension is showing up. He’s made his point. The Eagles got the message.
Has WR Deandre Brown shown anything in camp? He’s another guy with a checkered pass, but has all the physical tools to be a quality pro.
I guess this question would be relevant for extending DeSean as well as Vick and Cole, but if they do sign an extension, would they not be allowed to practice until the league year starts (4PM tomorrow). At this point, it’s not a big deal, just curious about the rule, and about the possibility of them maybe having a verbal agreement with Dave’s mystery player and/or Vick that they will announce once the league year starts.
In light of news of the Laws and Abiamiri injuries, I’ve come to reflect on how amazing it is that this team simply cannot draft and/or develop defensive tackles, and more specifically, defensive linemen, to save its life.
Since the drafting of Corey Simon, their last, and only, real impact, home-grown/drafted defensive tackle, in 2000, the following defensive linemen have been drafted by the Eagles:
2001: Derrick Burgess was mediocre for the Eagles, with 8.5 sacks over 3 seasons, before breaking out in Oakland
2002: Raheem Brock did nothing for the Eagles but played well for the Colts
2003: notorious bust Jerome McDougle and some guy named Jamaal Green who did nothing
2004: No DL selected
2005: solid but unspectacular Mike Patterson and above-average starter Trent Cole – their only two decent drafted/developed DL since 2000, and some guy named Keyunta Marshall who did nothing
2006: Brodrick Bunkley, Chris Gocong, and LaJaun Ramsey were unspectacular players who eventually were shipped out of town
2007: Victor Abiamiri is a McDougle-esque bust who cannot stay healthy
2008: Trevor Laws has so far been a mediocre rotational DT and if he has any serious injury problems this year he will officially fall into the “bust” category in all likelihood
2009: none selected
2010: Brandon Graham has had serious, career-threatening microfracture surgery and is probably going to fall into the same category of “busts due to injury” as McDougle and Abiamiri. Ricky Sapp, Te’o-Nesheim and the rest of these guys have shown nothing yet.
So, in summation, since the drafting of Corey Simon in 2000 there have been four 1st-round picks, two 2nd-round picks, two 3rd-round picks, two 4th-round picks, two 5th-round picks, and three 7th-round picks spent on defensive linemen. What do the Eagles have to show for it all? Out of all of those players drafted, only *two* have emerged even as consistent NFL *starters*: Mike Patterson and Trent Cole, both of whom are solid, but not elite, players. The rest of the players are either injury-riddled, played well only for other teams, or have simply underperformed to the point of being pushed out of town or pushed to the bench. Isn’t that amazing?
I guess if you knew how to draft defensive linemen properly (a la the Packers, Giants, and the Steelers) you wouldn’t have to go out and sign so many of them in free agency, right?
@ morton
You lost me when you referred to Trent Cole as “above-average starter.” Your negativity is so tired man.
Trent Cole needs to actually show up for once on the stat sheet in January for me to call him elite. Don’t get me wrong; he’s a great player, but he’s not in that elite class.
Other than that point – which many will disagree with me about, fine, Trent Cole is clearly the best DL they’ve drafted since Corey Simon – what have I said that was incorrect? Have they drafted/developed *anyone* on the defensive line since 2000 other than Cole who’s been above-average? Patterson is the the only one you can make a case for, and he’s really nothing more than a slightly above-average run-stuffing DT with average pass rush ability.
I’m really not trying to be negative for negativity’s sake. It may seem that way, but I love this team and realize that being poor drafters of defensive players is holding this team back from being in the same class as the Packers, Steelers, and Patriots.
Look at the Packers and why they got to the Super Bowl. They *hit* on their first round picks. Bj Raji and Clay Matthews are the cornerstones of their defense and they were first round picks that the Packers simply did not miss on.
Look at the Steelers and why they’ve been a dynasty for the past decade. Troy Polamalu… Lamarr Woodley… Casey Hampton… Lawrence Timmons… when the Steelers select a player in the first round, they simply do not miss on him. The player they select almost always shows Pro Bowl level talent in the NFL.
In this league, if you want to separate yourself from the pack and be an elite franchise, you absolutely cannot mess up your draft picks. You cannot afford to draft busts or mediocre players. It will only force you to mask your deficiencies in free agency, which, no matter how good the free agency class is, will always leave you with the scraps, relatively speaking. You end up overpaying for older players such as Cullen Jenkins when you should have successfully drafted that impact DT yourself years ago. You overpay for a shutdown cornerback when you should have developed that guy yourself like the Packers with Tramon Williams. Etc.
I guess the Eagles next acquisition will be Nostradamus so they can magically predict when drafted players are going to have injuries.
@iskar36
you are right on, i believe. i heard a report that all new contracts, extensions…etc force them to wait for the new year to begin, before practicing.
@ Morty, Really man, your comments are always negative. If you look at the Eagles draft history, ALL PLAYERS, they rank top in the League in players who start, become good players, and or go to the Pro Bowl. They are one of the top teams in that dept. No team can predict injuries. NO TEAM.
Guys get hurt, thats FOOTBALL MORTY. If you look at the teams you threw out there, Packers, Steelers, Pats, yes, they have picked up some good D-fensive guys BUT, if you look at their draft history, they TOO have failed with a TON of picks.
No team can predict injuries, and no team can predict what kind of attitude a player will have coming out of college once they get a big contract. Some excel and some don’t. BUT DUDE, stop ragin on the Eagles for every little thing, it’s getting old.
@ Morty, Perfect example, I was watching the NFL networks bit on Shannon Sharp being elected into the Hall. I watched his story. He was a 7th round draft pick. Came from a div. 2 school. Nobody wanted him, the Broncos picked him. He said he never stopped practicing until he became a starter. Then, he said for 14 seasons he NEVER let up, not once, he didn’t even go to the white house to be with the president after they won the super bowl because he said he was afraid if he stopped training that someone would steal his job away from him.
The guy was all heart, guts, and determination. YOU CAN’T PREDICT THAT. That happens within a man’s heart once they get a shot. Some make the best of it and some don’t. Stop raggin on the Eagles man. I’m starting to think your a Dallas Cowboys plant who’s trying to get all of us Eagles fans hatin the Birds. Find something positive to say about the team, JUST ONCE.
Morty always with the negative waves man.
Dude must be a hell of a lot of fun in real life.
i am going to repost a link of a PFT interview with Joe Banner on Aug. 1. i recommend to all eagles fans to listen to the entire segment, listen again if you already have.
tommy was expressing his feel to many of the topics before this… and as usual… this interview shows how in tune tommy is with the eagles philosophy (knot tied at the hip, it seems at times).
here is a list of times and topics…however, i recommend again to listen to the whole interview…
6:30 Asante
10:00 DJax
11:30 Rook Pay Scale/Pick #23
15:30 VY – No 2yr deal?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/01/pft-live-big-moves-lead-to-high-hopes-for-eagles/
;
yeh, the guy can’t even enjoy the best off season the Eagles have ever had. What a joy-kill.
It’s been ten minutes and no post about how poor the Eagles D line development has been during the Steeler’s/ Packers Super Bowl runs.
I share Morton’s frustration though, I’m just an annoying fking optimist and the season can’t start soon enough.
Morty,
You seem to have written some guys off pretty quickly. Using your examples alone, BJ Raji was constantly injured and underperformed his first year, Lawrence Timmons did not play well his rookie year…
Poor Abiamiri, guy just can’t catch a break can he.
Just in case you didn’t want to call me by the way of Name.
Hasn’t DeSean lost 120,000 already for not showing? So without an extension he’s making around 400,000? Haha And that’s if he shows tomorrow!
iskar36 wrote, “I guess this question would be relevant for extending DeSean as well as Vick and Cole, but if they do sign an extension, would they not be allowed to practice until the league year starts (4PM tomorrow). At this point, it’s not a big deal, just curious about the rule, and about the possibility of them maybe having a verbal agreement with Dave’s mystery player and/or Vick that they will announce once the league year starts.”
Ehh, I don’t think that’s what’s going on. Why hold out? Why not show up and practice? Then you do a contract re-work/extension after tomorrow. Even if you want to make the argument that DeSean wants his security in case of being hurt, I’d just say he could show up and just chill on the sidelines. He’d be doing that anyway if he had already re-done his contract.
He’s holding out because he’s not happy about some aspect of the contract negotiations.
Obviously I’m here because I’m a big Eagles’ fan, but I’d go out on a limb and say I’ve always admired the Steelers for their drafting prowess. I’d go as far as to say they are far and away better than any other team.
The Pats were once good, but the last 5 or 6 years they’ve been mediocre. The Eagles and Packers are a tier below. And the Eagles jump up that list because of the drafts of the past couple of years. That stretch from 2002-2007 was pretty brutal, selecting Kolb not withstanding.
Abiamiri catches too many breaks… : (
@erik
if djax reports and sits on the the sideline… he’s holding out basically.
and with the banner link i posted earlier…act like you are a part of the team, or lose.
The team doesn’t have to impose the fines on DJax. They can forgive the fines when he reports.
Hopefully he’ll be at Lehigh in the next few days and this will all be a moot point.
@Eric
If DeSean did show up this past week he’s still under contract and would most likely need to practice. He’s doing the smartest thing if you want want him to play during the season. It cuts his chances of injury prior to 1st preseason game by over 50% which helps everyone, he’s not losing money, Roseman’s been a little busy and if he comes in when the CBA’s done he’ll have a contract by the 2nd or 3rd preseason game anyway.
tommy,
i have to ask…is this the strongest roster you have ever seen the eagles put together? ’04 is the comparison.
@Tommy
It looks like 7 CB’s in article. Probably at least 1 team will be very desperate for Asante due to an injury prior to the season starts and give us a lot for him. But that would still leave possibly 6.
@ eagleizeit…
I was testing math skills. You’re the only one who passed.
RE: roster strength
This is the best roster I’ve ever seen the Eagles put together.
That said, we’ve got to see the guys in action to fully appreciate how good this team is. Or isn’t.
This roster is kinda sick on paper, but as we all know paper champs mean nothing.
There is a massive amount of upheaval in all aspects of the team this year, including coaches, so I hope everything gels fairly quickly and our superior talent can carry us through the early stages.
@eagleizeit
I agree. Though my comment was in response to other commenters suggesting he hasn’t shown because there’s this *wink, wink* deal between he and the Eagles. As I said, why not just have him show up on the sidelines and be a part of the team? Him sitting at home is no different than walking along the sidelines at Lehigh.
Isn’t there a certain point at which DJax would jeopardize his free agent status for next year by missing so much training camp? That is, if he didn’t sign a new contract. Who is his agent?
Also, any word on Maclin?
@ppk
If Jackson doesn’t show up one month before the first game of the year, which is 11 August, he will forfeit a year towards free agency per the CBA.
With that said, Rosenhaus may be a slime ball, but he’s smart enough to know that that isn’t smart for Jackson to do. Jackson will report before that date.
Honestly, I’m tired of the whole Desean thing. Blah blah he needs to get paid. He knows, FO knows, we know. He’s being a tool at this point.
I don’t think Rosenhaus orchestrated this, he KNOWS we don’t negotiate with holdouts. Just b/c everyone else knows when he needs to report by doesn’t mean he will report.
This is a distraction. Camp holdouts frequently get hurt once they do come onto camp. He’s gonna pout and sulk. He’s gonna lose focus without a new contract. Its what happened last year. Way too many drops.
He’s unique but he doesn’t deserve that top tier WR money. DeSean is not worth as much as he thinks he is and that is the biggest problem.
If he reports tomorrow. Wonderful. I’m not holding my breath.
Trent Cole: He’s not an “elite” player (Top 5), but he’s definitely top 10. To say we didn’t hit on him is ignorant.
As for developing DL, it’s hard. It has the highest bust rate this side of QB. It’s why so many DL go early in the 1st round. The Packers also missed on Harrell in RD1 and seem to have missed on Mike Neal (injuries) in RD2.
Recent 1st round busts include Maybin, Gholston, Ayers, Harvey. The “Orakpo” hits are rare.
Let’s not forget either that we just signed a guy who was previously a “bust” Jason Babin… There are just too many variables. These guys do have lives outside of football and it plays a role as well.
It sure looked like the Eagles hit on a gem with Graham last year. If you wanna help, how about praying for a full recovery instead of complaining.
Mike Patterson has AVM. Jesus…. 🙁
I’m no doctor, but it doesn’t sound good… although it does sound like there are treatment/correction options for him.
Prayers for Mike. He’s done for season n possibly career. Here’s hoping for a full recovery and normal life after.
As I said yesterday, is there anyway we can get Bunk to miss out on the Broncos’ physical as well?
Best of luck goes out to Patt.
Tweet: “Antonio Dixon leaves practice on cart”
We got any DTs left?
You don’t suddenly develop AVM (most people are born with it). He’s likely played with it for years. Frankly, if he didn’t have surgery, he could probably play next week…at a high level. It’s not cancer that saps your strength.
He could not have surgery or radiation…and be absolutely fine. OR he could be one of the few people who’s brain hemorrhages…and die instantly. It’s not a simple surgery either.
It really depends on the severity of his condition and if surgery or radiation is needed. Surgery is the better option (because radiation affects everything). Heck, if surgery goes well, Patterson *could* be ready for the regular season (not jokingly) and be healthy forever.
The reality is the following: everyone reacts to brain surgery very differently. It’s not an ACL tear with a clear recovery schedule.
There goes the Dream Team…
We can play with one UDFA DT right?
In other news Geoff Mosher reports that Ricky Sapp has gone awol from camp (did it in rookie year too). So much for him!
@eric
I wasn’t as clear as I was hoping to be in my post. I wasn’t as much thinking that they have a verbal agreement with DeSean as I was thinking a possible verbal agreement with Spadaro’s mystery player and/or Vick.
I doubt they have made any kind of verbal agreement with DeSean. My guess is that they will need to extend Vick or redo a few contracts before DeSean’s contract get’s renegotiated.
Sorry, I was “Name” above.
grades the last 10 years of drafts
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=3749
Tommy – can you give your opinion on the remaining FA’s – if anyone else will be am Eagles target..? Kirk Morrison – if he is not already signed elsewhere…also do you think Hanson will get cut..?