Say What?
Posted: September 7th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 70 Comments »Jose is back. I mean MmmBop. I mean Joselio Hanson. Weird, huh?
The Eagles have re-signed CB Joselio Hanson. Per Jeff McLane, Trevard Lindley has been cut. That’s fine with me. I wasn’t a huge fan of Lindley’s coming out of Kentucky. I had him listed as an overrated player. He did some good things as a rookie in 2010, but had many of the same issues this summer. Dick Jauron talked about needing to work on his footwork last year. Juan Castillo said the same thing in the offseason. You still saw footwork issues this summer.
Howie Roseman made the point recently that the big losers in the whole lockout situation would be the rookie class of 2010. He said that normally the biggest jump for players is from Year 1 to Year 2, which we all pretty much agree with. One of the key reasons for that is the players wrap up one season in January and then begin workouts in March. That gives them little down time. The coaching is fresh in their minds from the end of the season so they don’t have to re-learn everyting in March and instead can focus on improving. The 2010 rookies didn’t have that luxury. They sat for about 7 months. Nothing was fresh for them. For some, they had to go back to square one and start all over. I’m guessing Lindley fell in this category.
He also got passed over by Brandon Hughes. Which guy was the better player? Hughes showed the ability to play inside or out. He showed up on STs. He played the run pretty well. He just flat out looked the part. Lindley was a step behind. He can still become a solid NFL player, but he’s behind schedule at this point.
As for bringing back Hanson, that’s fine with me. Terrific role player. Very good in the slot. Will play on STs. Veteran player with no upside, but that the coaches can trust. Should something happen to one of the Big 3, Hanson can step right back into the slot role and the defense won’t miss a beat.
I was all in favor of letting Hanson go last week, but part of that was due to the numbers crunch. I wasn’t about to get rid of Hughes or Marsh. Lindley was expendable in my book, but I figured the Eagles still wanted him to keep around and develop. I think the presence of young corners in DRC, Hughes, and Marsh made Lindley expendable from an age standpoint. 3 young, talented CBs is enough. With that group in place, you can exchange another young guy for a veteran that is almost a security blanket for the coaches.
I think Hanson shopped around the league and found out that his value wasn’t as high as expected. He/his agent talked to the Eagles and found out that a deal could be struck that would work for both side. Bam, we have MmmBop back in action.
Wonder how much the Eagles saved cutting and resigning him…
I’m sure they did save some money. Smart move. Hanson will be #4 CB. Pay him less than primary slot guy. Glad to have MmmBop back in the fold. Quality vet, quality person from what I hear.
IMO, they brought Hanson back because DRC is just not cutting it as a slot corner. I think DRC will be the best fourth corner in NFL history this year. Hopefully he’s OK with cooling his heels for a year while he waits for Asante to leave.
@ LT…
Actually, from what I’ve seen Nnamdi is playing in the slot more than DRC.
So, how did the Mmmbop nickname originate?
I guess they are still working on the Nnamdi-as-Woodson experiment. I’d prefer them just using him to lock up and shut down the other team’s top threat.
Just listened to Reid’s PC. The most interesting thing out of it was… he would not say if Watkins would start against the Rams.
So, is Lindley eligible for the practice squad?
@eagles nut
Not sure who came up with it… but it’s a play on the band Hanson (hit single – mmmbop).
I like the idea of DeVan starting as I said the other day, giving the team two scrappy journeymen at G but that’s preferable against the opening schedule. The Rams have a tough DL and we’ll see if Quinn makes a splash from day one (hopefully not as w/ rookie dl). There are cases of promising rookies who have been ruined by being rushed, and it’s up to the coach to figure out when game experience would be helpful.
Apparently the Eagles have outbid the Giants for Smith and Hanson now, or perhaps they have a better phone demeanor. Rough year for Jerry Reese, but never count out his backups as he is one of the best at talent evaluation.
I wonder if they tried to get Hanson to restructure his contract before they released him, as they did with Parker and Justice. Maybe he declined and the Eagles told him to test the market?
Im surprised the Giants didnt try and sign him.
@Matt
Lindsey is not eligible for the practice squad because he played in too many games last year.
I don’t really watch NFL Network, but I just saw a clip on PE.com with Lombardi, wow. I had a hard time taking him seriously. Especially as I’m pretty sure he called our rookie guard Danny Walters.
@Matt
Nope, he was active for too many games last year
Hanson>>Lindley.
I don’t care about next year. Lindley may or may not ever more than a back up player.
This move improves the team.
From Twitter:
geoffmosher Geoff Mosher
DeVan took all first team reps today at right guard
@ eagles nut…
I came up with the nickname. When you write the same names over and over and over every day…you get bored. Mixing in some goofy nicknames is just a way to keep things interesting. I know some people hate it. I try not to over-do it, but I think a mixture of football and fun is okay.
I write more formally for PE.com and SB Nation Philly. That’s what they want.
I don’t want to be a NY Times writer so I don’t strictly adhere to those kind of journalistic standards. I want my stuff to inform and entertain. I like calling Andy “Big Red”. And calling Hanson “MmmBop”. Gotta mix in a little bit of goofiness.
Tommy, maybe you need to have a page on the site to act as a glossary of sorts to help some of the newer people to your writing catch up quickly. maybe a FAQ could be in order to help explain your PBR habits.
Does this make me the winner of the Final 53 contest since I agreed with eaglesnut 99% except I thought we’d keep Schmitt in lieu of Lindley??
I take validation wherever I can find it….
Cutting Lindley was somewhat of an eyebrow raiser but it shows that the competition at CB this year was tight. Tommy you mentioned a few posts back that one one of cut casulties at LB that you thought might be of interest of the Iggles was T. Gooden. I was surprised that the Eagles did not make any moves to sign another LB after final cuts? Isn’t there any LB out there that could help the team?
I have to side with Morton (preemptively) here. The Eagles screwed the pooch last year in the draft. Everyone hailed Roseman for “working the draft.” What did he do? He traded a second round pick for a bunch of later round picks. What happened? We busted on our third round pick (Tosh.O), one of the fourth round picks we had by moving back (Lindley) and one of the fifth round picks we had by moving back (Sapp). That’s awful.
I love the Eagles and I love Roseman’s free agency work this year – but that’s a really disappointing haul even just a year out.
And yes, I know we hit on Chaney, Clayton, and Coleman. But those picks could have been had by trading back out of the third round (Tooooosh!) or maybe even the fourth round – not by giving up a second round pick.
Ah well, enough sour grapes. Roseman has wiped the slate relatively clean by working free agency this year like a drum — on to the season!
Gang,
Lots to talk about with Hanson back and now DeVan named the starter over Watkins, but here’s some good film study on Kelce and the O-line with Greg Cosell. He talks about the new strategy and on one play towards the end you can see Dunlap hasn’t grasped the new concepts…
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/multimedia/videos/Film-Room-Jason-Kelce/90201c52-4bc7-40d0-9009-99bc814224ed
It’s always good when an organization begins cutting recent draft picks to make room for older players.
Yeah, and it’s also great when it begins wasting draft picks on 26 year old players that, despite being older, won’t be able to contribute until they are close to 30.
This front office certainly has done a fine job of ensuring the competitiveness of this team well into the future.
If we’re going to criticize drafting…
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/Watkins-out-DeVan-in.html
Oh, and instead of trading down and acquiring all of those busts, do you know what the Eagles could have done in the 2010 draft with their second 2nd round pick?
Do what the team that eventually ended up with that pick did: Dallas selected MLB Sean Lee. Hey, what do you know: MLB was a big need this year and Sean Lee looks like he is going to be the starter for them at that position this year.
So Nick, correct me if I’m wrong, what you are saying is :
“If you set apart the succesful picks of last year draft the other are pretty poor”.
That’s cool.
FYI, you can do that for every team’s draft. and Lindley/Teo would be on the roster if we hadn’t signed so many quality FAs. So when the eagles sign no one, Eagles fans complain they aren’t aggressive enough, but when they do, they complain that it pushes past draftees out of the roster ?
It’s not like they have scrubs replacing them, we have one of the league best Nickel CB as a dime CB for God’ sake !
@Morton…
Yes, there is room to be critical of a draft when you give up on guys this soon.
However, I think that’s part of the Eagle’s philosophy. They acquire a ton of picks, knowing that some will stick and some won’t. They could choose not to trade back and acquire picks, and then they’re SOL when they miss on just a few.
@ Brian…
I don’t think we need to worry about Watkins yet. If he doesn’t earn back his starting spot by midseason, then I’ll start to worry.
Obviously, seeing Watkins benched is not comforting, but I find it interesting that over the last few years, the eagles have drastically changed the way we treat draft picks. In the past, I seem to remember the attitude was that rookies were rarely a significant part of the offense or defense in their first year, especially early in the season. Sure, the early picks were expected to contribute, but not nearly to the level we expect them to contribute recently. Now, when a first round, or even second round pick, isn’t starting day 1, everyone seems to go in panic mode. On top of that, the Eagles have started expecting our early round picks (and even mid round picks in the case of Matthews) to start day 1. Am I simply remembering wrong, or has there been a real change in philosophy? Alternatively, have we been less able to have a more complete roster by the time the draft has come along so that we have the freedom to draft BPA instead of needing to fill holes with rookies?
Criticizing the Eagles for not drafting Sean Lee, a guy with a knee that was so bad many teams took him off their draft boards, is one of the dumber things I’ve heard on an Eagles forum.
I could not disagree more about last year’s draft being a washout. Graham and Allen are hurt, but both demonstrated last year that they can play some football. Hopefully they will recover to their pre-injury form.
They have other contributors from that draft — Chaney, Harbor, Coleman, Clayton. Chaney and Coleman are already starters. Clayton and Harbor provide excellent depth.
You don’t hit on every pick. DTO was a lousy call. Lindley either didn’t progress or got squeezed in the numbers game. It happens. Big deal.
I am increasingly convinced that Morton is in fact a cyborg sent back from the post-apocalyptically positive Philadelphian future, whose sole purpose is to ensure the propagation of 20th century negadelphian ideals into the bleakly impending torrent of our blighted municipality’s major sporting successes. His programming is just so flawlessly shiny.
Well, Ronnie Brown went to # 21 for about a day, now is back to outraging Eagles nation by wearing the revered #36.
On a serious note, wouldn’t Ronnie Brown kind have rights to that number since Hanson left the roster and then was re signed? Could indicate that Ronnie Brown is good guy.
@iskar
Did Desean start this trend?
Only major ones I can think of before that are Shawn Andrews starting week 1 and Reggie Brown playing a lot(but that wasn’t planned.)
Sorry for being quiet today. Busy day at the Dairy Queen.
I’ll put up a post this evening on the DeVan / Watkins situation.
If DeVan is better, he should start.
And a rookie not starting should not be surprising, especially when there has been so little time to learn.
If he still can’t earn the spot from DeVan by week 8, then there might be some concern.
@fran – Ronnie Brown is 34 now.
I really hope the re-signing of Hanson doesn’t mean that they are planning on trading Asante. Its just hard to imagine that Hanson would have offers from other teams and still choose to sign on as the Eagles’ 4th CB. Super Bowl chances or not there is just no athlete who would turn down a starting job to be 4th on the depth chart.
@Fran35
I’m pretty sure Browns number is now 34
@Phillyburdzfan
Yea, DeSean was who I was thinking about in terms of starting that trend. I remember Tommy trying to temper expectations from DeSean in his rookie year (and at the time, I fully agreed). Then of course he went and had a great year. Since then, it seems we have had a lot more rookies not only get significant playing time but start right from the beginning of the season.
Watkins’ benching is very disappointing.
Especially when a 6th round undersized rookie selection is starting at the 2nd-most important O-line position.
I’m hoping Tommy will explain why, exactly, the transition from college OT to NFL OG is so hard.
Shawn Andrews did it. In a big way.
I don’t believe that missing a few days of camp and off-season practices is the reason. Watkins’ has had 6 weeks to learn what Mudd wants — twice a day most of those days, plus after-practice time.
Clearly, he’s been unable to get it.
And to read that Watkins called the transition from college to the NFL “overwhelming” is disheartening.
No position presents a harder transition for a rookie than WR.
But Maclin did it. And D-Jax did it.
So what’s the problem?
PE.com giving Hanson’s no. as 21. Will Ronnie give it up?
I know that when we brought in Howard Mudd we more or less were going all in on his scheme and would shape our O Line around what he wants, but can anyone say they anticipated this much overhaul on the line?
I understand that there are certain guys he likes, but is their literally no in-between where he can get by with some guys who have been good players over the years but aren’t “Mudd guys”.
Tommy, what do you think our ideal offensive line will be in, say, week 10? When do we want to get Watkins into the fold here?
Sorry to nitpick, but Shawn Andrews didn’t really have a chance to show how good he was until his second year. He broke his leg in the first game. I don’t remember, but I imagine he did have a much better preseason than Watkins.
This is disappointing, but I think we need to give Danny until at least week 6-8 to really be down on him. Normally I’d give him more, but we were convinced his readiness as a starter would make up for his age.
Why wouldn’t they let jamjax start at guard. I know he has never started there but at least he knows the system.
@MJ
It’s a pretty big overhaul, but it’s not like the Eagles are cutting All Pro type players to get Mudd-type guys on the field. JamJax is really the only one who was ever an above average player, and he basically hasn’t played the last 2 seasons.
I often nitpick Roseman and the 2010 draft showed his strengths and weaknesses as a first year GM, his strength being negotiations and cap/ draft chart value management, his initial weakness being player evaluation relative to the best GMs. To clarify what he did in 2010, he traded pick 55, at a time when the best OG on the board was Vlad Ducasse (who last I looked was a bust), for six picks through successive trades, the most resourceful trading down I’ve ever seen. Those five picks netted Clay Harbor, Mike Kafka, Riley Cooper, Ricky Sapp, Daniel Te’o-Neshaim and a 2011 5th, which became Dion Lewis. Six guys for pick 55. I’m impressed as I’ve said over and over. Sapp fell in the draft but his talent was worth a flier, even if he lacked the attitude of Te’o, who lacks Sapp’s talent. But you’re talking about turning a low second into Kafka, Dion Lewis, Cooper and Harbor.
We all know that they picked Nate Allen because Morton was going to have a heart attack if they didn’t pick a safety and they didn’t want Taylor Mays.. the paramedics were already en route. And Western Civilization and the secret space station was writing down would-be star Earl Thomas’ name but the Iggles wouldn’t have it, not knowing that psychic aliens had predestined Graham’s ACL injury. And the new discussion in NovaCare is “Benching Watkins is a Morton yellow alert, but playing him could cause him to sound the sirens and call up the Morton Militia.”
There wasn’t much on the board when Watkins’ name was called, and keep in mind that rookies sign a 4 year deal and the Eagles will control whatver his prime is.. then decide on a second contract. I wanted them to trade up for Prince A but if you don’t and then turn around and sign Nmandi I’m ok with that. I doubt the other OL on the board are going to do much more than Watkins before the bye.
I kinda feel the opposite about last years draft, I think its actually looking pretty solid, especially if Graham comes back and contributes.
Do Morton have a twitter or something? It would be awesome to see his views and thoughts on normal everyday life. On the other hand I’m not sure I would be able to handle that
MORTON If we weren’t so close to the sun we wouldn’t have to worry about heatwaves. Other planets in the solar system don’t seem to have this problem. #Earthsucks #FireGod
Just saw an interesting tidbit from Andy at the bottom of a philly.com article…
Basically he said that Jackson and Drew had ‘taken care of business and now he’s ready to play’.
Tommy, do you think Mmmbop is still ahead of say Brandon Hughes on the depth chart? If one of the big 3 went down, would Hanson go back to his usual role in the nickle or do you think Hughes has passed him by?
my other nitpick of Roseman drafting as I’ve said is that he locks in on guys he interviews and reaches in the early rounds, where someone like Heckert knows what other teams are going to do and what the best value on the board is when it’s their turn, in the course of – no doubt – picking a lot of busts.. Colt McCoy in the 3rd round is a good example of getting value on the board. And the FO’s pro player evaluation wasn’t any good last year until the Colt Anderson/ Brandon Hughes pickups.. I immediately praised the Hughes pickup.
Off-topic, but I have a feeling Desean is gonna be re-signed by Saturday. It seems like something like this they would be most quiet right before it happens. And I haven’t heard anything recently.
If DeVan plays like a competent NFL RG I’ll be thrilled, but for christ sake Winston Justice circa Giants game vs Osi thinks Watkins is going to get his starting QB KILLED.
Ahahah @Baloophi. Amazing stuff.
(Quite a bit of hilarity in this thread, actually. Nice work, fellas.)
I have taken to lining my hat with aluminum foil to protect myself from some of these posts from he who shall not be mentioned.
Aw yeh new splash page cartoon:
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/multimedia/videos/Eagles-Splash-Page-Cartoon-Week-01/0108bcf6-3906-4115-81b7-81b982daea13
Dancing Merrill is awesome…
So, according to Eaglescap.com, they are just under $7M under the cap before the Hanson re-signing; assuming his new cap hit is $1M or so, that leaves $6M. It would seem that they could use some of that as part of an extension for Desean and still have some cap flexibility for emergencies/injuries. I’m no cap guru, but wouldn’t a $10M signing bonus as part of a 5 or 6 year deal, without changing his base salary for this year, keep the cap hit for this year at around 2M for this year, still leaving about 4M? I really feel like they’ve got to get something done with DJax before the start of the season if they seriously expect him to play to his potential (and return punts).
Tommy:
Watkins’ is quoted as having said that his transition to the NFL has been “overwhelming.”
His self-assessment scares me. It sounds like he’s lost his confidence.
Compare Watkins’ comment to Kelce’s comment that he’s very confident, a quick learner, a tough guy. Kelce may not be big or he may even screw up.
But he’s confident.
I get all the other stuff: No OTAs; No playbook until training camp; No communicating with coaches ’til T.C.; His holdout.
Kelce missed all that, too. But he’s looked good enough to replace J-Jax.
And if it’s argued that Watkins is “raw”, then the front office — Reid and Howie — screwed up in the choice.
Why? There was no doubt going to be a lockout. Watkins was moving positions. He’d be missing out on coaching. He’s 27 w/ only 4 years’ experience.
If Watkins so desperately needed help, he was not the guy to select.
Bottom line. If he’s lost his confidence, he’s in trouble. And so are the Eagles. Certainly for this year.
That word “overwhelming” just doesn’t suggest confidence on Watkins’ part at all.
Thoughts?
worst nickname ever
Morton probably thinks the Phillies stink too…
FREAKING GEEZUS, PEOPLE! WATKINS IS A ROOKIE! WE HAVEN’T EVEN PLAYED A GAME YET!
Holy crap, some of you guys remind me of the parents on my daughter’s soccer team. It’s practice #2 and these people are yelling at their 6-year-olds because they’re not dribbling as fast as other kids.
Fact #1: Kelce plays center and Watkins plays guard. Stop comparing the two.
Fact #2: No matter how much potential Watkins has, DeVan has 20+ NFL starts in Mudd’s system and is more prepared for Week 1.
Hard to set a bar for a rookie linemen changing positions when he was playing hockey a few years ago. Kelce has more football experience and is being asked to play the same position he played in college. Watkins not being ready means that Watkins isn’t ready, which is sort of significant, but we’ll see about the pick down the road. I may have to adjust what I was saying about Watkins being the most NFL ready pass blocker in the draft, but that was LT in college.
G Mike Pouncey has been moved to center, the next G down the board, Ben Ijalana, isn’t starting for the Colts. RT James Carpenter, picked by Seattle right after Watkins, is having his problems. Derrick Sherrod isn’t starting. The Cowboys drafted three linemen, including Tyron Smith at 9, who’s hurt now so the one who starts is the 7th round Bill Nagy at G. 75th pick G John Moffitt is starting in Seattle, G Will Rackley (76) is starting for the Jags, and 101st pick G Clint Boling is starting in Cinci, but haven’t these teams given up?
The one guy that draftniks mocked to the Eagles, picked later, that is looking good in hindsight is Gabe Carimi, but the logic seemed to be that they wanted an interior lineman instead of a tackle.
@JakFTW
What precedes the splash page is preferable…
SHE makes me wheeze..
@ Cliff – Criticism of Watkins is not out of line, he has been unprepared and the FO has specifically cited ‘draft experts’ and quoting them as saying, ‘he’s the most NFL read OL prospect in this years draft’… well? I’m not saying he can’t play in the league, but damn he isn’t ready to play this year, and if you ask the 52 other guys on the team, they’re all in to make a run NOW.
Just sayin’
Wow, great stuff all around…
@ eagles nut
You asked for it…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE
@ Roger
Hopefully Tommy creates the FAQ while consuming many PBRs, so we would all enjoy it.
@ Nick
I enjoyed the preemptive agreement, but any post that begins by agreeing with Morton should probably be reconsidered. Between that and spelling your own four-letter name wrong, it hurts your cyber-cred.
@ Morton
Are we really staking our criticisms on one of the youngest and best teams being unable to ensure future competitiveness? Must have been a good year.
@ubrab
I think we can add addressing an area of concern before the games start counting versus entering the season with a question mark unaddressed to the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t list.
@ philyburdsfan
I also thought it was DeSean who broke the mold.
@ Shawn Haas
I don’t think JamJax has any inside track on the system – the new system – over a guy who started the majority of two years with our coach.
@ ian
Great stuff, but we DO NOT mention the secret space station. That is why it is called a SECRET space station. Sheesh.
@ Baloophi
If Morton signed up for a Twitter account the little bird in the logo would start frowning.
And finally, @ Tommy
See why we need to be able to reply to comments?
“Between that and spelling your own four-letter name wrong, it hurts your cyber-cred.”
I am dying right now. Kudos, sir. What an excellent thread this has become.
@Cliff
Indeed!
I’ve never noticed Morton before today, but it’s nice that Tommy has his own personal JIBTA.