Seven Up – Practice Squad Almost Complete
Posted: September 5th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 49 Comments »The Eagles added 2 more bodies to the Practice Squad, TE Anthony Hill and WR Ronald Johnson.
I’m excited about Johnson. Hadn’t realized he got cut. Good player out of USC. Really emerged as a Senior. Had 74 total catches in his first 3 years. Had 64 in 2010. Might remind you of Steve Smith. Lacks elite speed, but solid receiver. Has a thick enough build to work the slot. Good hands. Good RAC ability when he catches the ball out in space. Tough. Good RS. Averaged 14 yards per PR and 24 yards per KOR. Ran a punt back for a TD in 2010. Doesn’t project as a future starter, but can be a good role player as #3/#4 receiver and RS.
Hill looked like he was going to be a big time college player until he tore up his knee. That robbed him of athletic ability. Huge TE at 6’6, 275. Good blocker. Adequate receiver. I think Hill his here strictly as a practice player. In order to prepare for some power running teams you need a big TE for practice.
The other players we already know:
OL Dallas Reynolds
FB Stanley Havili
WR Chad Hall
DE Daniel Te’o-Nesheim
LB Greg Lloyd
There is one spot left. The Eagles are hoping to get DT Cedric Thornton signed, but can’t officially add him until 4pm. Haven’t heard yet if any other team claimed him. I sure hope not.
* * * * *
Reuben Frank has up an interesting interview with Howie Roseman. I found this question and answer worth noting:
Q: So many of your young guys come from the SEC, the Big Ten — you seem to really favor major-conference guys. Is that a philosophical thing with you?
Roseman: “I got a note on my desk that says, ‘Big schools, consistent performers,’ and when you look at the league and successful guys in the league, that’s a pretty good formula for success, so we’ll try that and it doesn’t mean we won’t go off that, but it’s something we look at as we go through the process.”
* * * * *
I think the roster is pretty set for now. There are some players on the street with big names, but I don’t think the Eagles have any interest. We’re set at DE so guys like Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin don’t make any sense. There are no LBs the team will pursue. I think the Eagles actually like what they’ve got there.
Adding Kyle DeVan settles the OL. We have veteran backups at each spot (C JamJax, G DeVan, T King Dunlap).
Now, we need to see the guys play. We’ll scout the Rams. We’ll have a gameplan. We’ll adjust protections to help Danny Watkins and Todd Herremans in this first game. Let’s see how the fellas play before we get too down on this group. This is the most athletic Eagles OL that I can think of. There are lots of new faces so there will be some bumps in the road. The hope is that the line will come together as they play and then be at a high level by midseason (or hopefully sooner).
As for the “Vick will get killed” stuff…the line was porous last year and he held up. It was down the stretch that the beating caught up with Vick. Last year’s OL was older and did not get better. They struggled throughout the year. They had some good games (ATL for instance), but were highly inconsistent. Anyone remember Vick running for his life in Detroit? Both Giants games? Mudd and the new/young OL will need time to gel, but I still think they’ll be as good as the 2010 line, if not better.
Tommy, so is #10 our full time punt returner? Will they try Lewis back there? Think this could change before the Rams?
DeSean is the PR for now. That could change after the season opener, but don’t count on it.
I think DeSean as our PR could work for us in a couple different ways. If teams punt to him he is a dynamic threat that is able to take it for 6 each time he touches the ball. Sure there is an injury risk, but there is an injury risk every time he steps on the field. If teams try to punt around him we should end up with better field position the majority of the time. A good friend of mine is a Bears fan and we were talking about the Devin Hester factor a couple of years ago. When teams kicked it to Hester they usually paid, when they didn’t the Bears ended up with great field position.
I think we have the same situation with DeSean. Do you risk punting it to him and watching him take it back for six or do you kick it out of bounds or away from him and watch the punter shank a punt it and only go 30 yards down the field?
And no only that, but we will be able to use the extra roster spot on game day for someone that can help on special teams.
I think we had this discussion back on IgglesBlog at around the same time last year – why NOT keep DeSean back there for punts? That’s the perfect example of putting your best man out there for the job. It’s fine if we can put someone as explosive out there, but until we find that guy, we should be letting our homerun hitter take every swing he can (sorry for crossing sports).
The argument that we want to avoid injury risk could be used to justify subbing Vick out for VY if we’re playing a particularly nasty D-line and are backed up deep in our own territory – there’s a good chance Vick would get killed (to use the phrase du jour), so why not save him and his magic for the “good” situations?
@Tommy
Are you still planning a write-up that addresses rosters moves and the Eagles “master” plan?
Here’s my understanding of the way this team is designed:
Offense:
Spread the field. Stretch the opposing defense with receivers. QB needs to make quick decisions and get rid of the ball. We’ve got deep threat, mid threat, and underneath stuff. Small, athletic O line. O is designed to quickly get the lead, not play from behind in a grinder.
Defense:
Once offense gets the lead, other teams will need to pass to catch up. DBs and LBs shut down the pass; D line designed to consistently place pressure on the passer. Can disrupt runs by getting penetrations, but DL and LBs not designed to deal with a running, grind-it-out team.
If this is truly the overall plan of the Eagles, it seems like we’ve got the perfect roster to make that happen.
My only question is whether we’ve already seen the skill set/decision making from Vick last year that is needed to capitalize on this offense? Or has he yet to show that he can tap into what Andy and Marty have set up for him?
It’s a catch 22: This is an offense designed for the big play, but at the same time, a field goal or punt is often a win. Gotta find a balance.
Didn’t realize Nathan would be saying the same thing as me, except 6 minutes earlier.
I don’t mind DeSean returning punts. There have been more than a few games where has had 1-2 catches or even less going into the half.
You have to get someone like him touches.
Like Vick said, he missed Celek several times last year. Ideally, we see Vick spreading the ball around a lot more this year. He’s got plenty of targets; no need to force the ball to DeSean.
PR will be an excellent way to insure Jackson stays involved physically and mentally in the game. But it’s obviously not without risks.
we might see some vested vets arrive in a week or so: Moss, Hargrove, and/or Landri..
Ron Johnson makes it ok that Rod Harper’s not on the PS. Supposedly he had a bad preseason and was beaten out by Ted Ginn. Could be a very good PR, can block for a little guy and catches the ball.
the “big schools consistent performances” idea also seems Moneyball-ish.. they would draft college pitchers rather than high school arms.. as well as letting average starters go and using the money for special players. Moneyball works better with a league salary cap if you notice where the A’s are in the standings.
I reiterate that if you’re up by 9 points or more, you use a dependable PR other than DJax and try to eat up the clock with more running plays
interesting that Dallas Reynolds beat out Shipley and Austin Howard, who are unsigned. Reynolds is a solid guard and his experience there may have made the difference. Don’t know if they gave up on Howard.
Is it possible that DeSean’s contract status affects the Eagles’ willingness to put him out there as a punt returner? Would he be the PR if the Eagles just invested huge money in a multiple year deal?
Taking it a step further, could the Eagles be sending a message to DeSean, “You’re returning punts until you sign.”?
I was wondering if we’d see Cornelius Ingram on the PS8 this year again. I guess he is done. How disappointing for him – he had so much promise before his 2nd knee injury in 09 preseason.
RE: DeSean at PR / contract
I wouldn’t read this as him being punished for not having a deal. I could see the Eagles saying that if you want a huge deal, we want you to have as many touches as possible. That means WR and PR.
RE: C Ingram
We don’t need him on the P Squad. We’ve already got 2 pass catching TEs. Hill gives us a big guy that we don’t otherwise have for practice.
Ingram could catch on with some team trying to develop a young receiving TE.
I don’t think Desean would see returning punts as a punishment, he seems like the guy who would relish the opportunity to provide a highlight reel type play.
there was an incident last year when DJax didn’t want to practice returning punts before the game, which I interpreted as a general impatience with that continued role..
but he loved being out there against Matt Dodge.. no question.. as evident in this succulent movie offering..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddTacY83qBk&feature=related
I am psyched about Desean returning punts. When I hear talk about the injury risk I am hard pressed to remember the last time I saw a pr injured during a return. Seems to me it’s usually one of the offensive guys charging downfield and getting nailed. Anyone have any stats on pr injuries?
UPDATE
Thornton did clear waivers and now he’s on the P Squad.
Awesome.
How do you feel about AJ Edds? I liked him coming out of college. He tore his ACL last year so I can’t justify cutting a guy like Akeem Jordan in place of him. It would have been nice to put him on the PS
Why can’t kick off specialist also learn how to return punts? Never made sense to me
ppk, Last summer Domnenik Hixon tore an ACL in training camp returning a punt and Dez Bryant broke his ankle returning a kickoff, ending his season, after he had taken a paycut to sign before the picks above and below him had set the values.
“The league basically has decided the kickoff is too dangerous, responsible for historically high injury rates, and so it wants to decrease the number of kickoff returns and increase the number of touchbacks. Fewer collisions on kickoffs should mean fewer injuries, the league reasons, and more touchbacks are the prescribed way to reduce damaging contact.
“Under the umbrella of player safety, it’s hard to argue against it,” Colts team president and competition committee member Bill Polian said. “The coaches will see what we’re talking about in terms of injuries when we show them the tape [on Monday]. It’s hide your eyes ugly. We’re trying to limit the times you have that kind of hit in the game. You would hope the coaches see the injuries and understand we’re doing it for the player safety issue, and that’s the right reason.”
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/21/kickoff/index.html#ixzz1X7EwSraE
Relieved to have Thorton back in the fold. Well played by the FO. And can we all just agree now: the Eagles just had their best off-season ever?!
Best offseason?
Craziest for sure. However, I’ve never gone into a season with more questions since Andy arrived.
Tommy,
Off topic but I was just wondering if anything ever came of Andy Reid getting a penalty for throwing a challenge flag. Not even about whether the play would have been overturned or not, but just if anything was ever clarified on the new rule and the punishment of a penalty and losing the chance for the challenge? Something seemed off about that whole situation and I expected more to come of it but it kind of faded away.
Right now this is at most the Eagles’ 4th best offseason, behind 1948, 1949, and 1960.. we’ll find out how this stacks up on the 5th of Feb.
@ ian
While I am certainly not asserting that punt returns are safe, they are generally considered less dangerous than kickoff returns, which most of your observations and quotes address.
Punt returns have the blockers and the blocked moving in the same direction, for the most part, and so less violent collisions than kickoffs, which basically has players line up with enough room to reach full speed before they collide.
I think there is certainly a valid argument that returning a punt and catching a pass over the middle of the field have comparable risks.
The refs made the correct call when Andy threw that flag. You can’t throw a challenge flag for a play that is automatically reviewed. To do so is an unsportsmanlike penalty.
Furthermore, if your team commits any penalty on a play, it cannot be reviewed in your favor. In this case the unsportsmanlike penalty was assessed, eliminating the review.
The latter rule is new for this year, I believe. I first became aware of it on the film that the NFL made to show the players about the new rule changes (which mostly focused on safety, but this was in there).
In my opinion, taking DeSean off of punt return duty equates to playing scared. Now, that may be strong verbage, and perhaps “conserving the health of a star player” is more apt, but I’ve never, ever believed in playing scared. Taking him off PRs because you’re afraid he’ll get hurt is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
DeSean is a home-run hitter. Thats his game. He is not a Roddy White or a Wes Welker that is going to catch 110 passes and work inbetween the 20s all day long. You put that kid on the field to make the big play, and Punt Returns are just another opportunity for him to do that.
I wonder if Marlon Favorite has found another practice squad. He’s been on 11 teams so far (counting the Rams twice), either for preseason or for practice squads, starting in the 2009 season.
Amazing how the history of hard shots/collisions at punt returners has vanished and being precautionary is “running scared.” We can spend the night discussing times in everyday life when fear is constructive, and it’s great to bet on other people’s ligaments, especially when they’re not guaranteed Fitzgerald money. My point has been that DJax could return punts in key situations and someone else should return them when they’re up 9 and in some other situation. DJax could have told the dream team he’ll live the dream when he got guaranteed money, throwing a wrench in the preseason victory parade, but he put the team first, and we’ll see who looks out for him.
Always an interesting debate on Desean as PR.
One thing to consider is how gimpy he is even as receiver. It seems like he’s always coming up with an ankle or a foot strain… vanishing for a few series, and then returning. When he’s out, and the D no longer has to account for two speedsters, it always seems like first downs get tougher to get.
My point is that if he gets an ankle or whatever (not even a season-ending injury) on a punt return, and has to come out for a few series, there’s an impact, because even when he’s not having a great game, he commands attention in the secondary.
Is there a scenario where you tell Jackson to fair-catch everything (assuming other teams will try not to kick to him) and only actually return when we need it? That’s obviously far-fetched but is at least trying to strike a balance…
@mcud
I’m just curious what your questions are about the team going into the season. I certainly have a few, but I’m not sure I can say I have more questions this year than any other.
My questions going into the season are:
1) How will our OLine play? Specifically, can Watkins be a serviceable RG? Can Herremans make the switch to RT? Can Kelce handle being the center? I guess you also have to ask about Mathis starting.
Compare those questions to last year’s oline questions going into the season. Who plays RG with Andrews gone? Will JamJax be ready for the season, and if not, can McGlynn fill in? Is Herremans fully healthy?
2) Will our LBs lose games for us? Specifically, how good/bad is Matthews? Can Chaney live up to the expectations?
Compared that to last year where the questions were is Bradley fully recovered? Ernie Sims? 3rd LB?
3) How will our rookie STers play this year?
Last year, how will our coverage units play?
4) How will our safeties play? Can Page be a solid starter while Allen recovers? Has Coleman shown us enough to be comfortable with him?
Last year, we had no idea what to expect out of Allen.
5) Will we be able to stop the run with the wide 9? I guess we still need to ask if we can generate a solid pass rush with the wide 9, but so far, it seems we should be able to.
Last year, can we generate enough of a pass rush with our front 4? Can Graham start?
6) Juan Castillo?
Last year, Sean McDermott?
7) Can Vick beat the blitz?
Last year, can Kolb be a quality starter for a full season?
8) Is Maclin 100% recovered? Can Steve Smith play well?
(No major questions at WR last year)
I tried to be fairly inclusive in that list, but if I missed any glaring questions, I apologize. That being said, I think for the most part, we had a similar number of questions last year, some of which were much more concerning than any of the questions we had this year. On top of that, I didn’t even include a few glaring questions from last year such as who plays opposite Asante (as compared to this year where the concern is who comes off the field in 2 CB situations), and who is the backup RB (as compared to can we get our #3 RB any touches this year?)
I think there are absolutely some concerns this year, and I fully agree that there is no way we can say this is the best offseason ever without seeing how it plays out in the season. That being said, I don’t think the questions going into the start of this season are nearly as concerning as even last year, let alone any year under AR. I think instead, the difference may be that the expectations are higher.
Has DRC returned punts in the NFL? If so, he could be a possible PR.
I’m reluctant to use Desean on punts for the same reason we didn’t use Lito or Westbrook (Reno Mahe anyone?) on punts for much of the past decade (other than in critical situations). Keep in mind that Lito and Westy were on the bench while Greg Lewis and JR Reed were fumbling away games.
@mcud and ian
I’m not basing this on winning a SB. I’m basing it on having a plan and going out and executing it, which is exactly what Howie Roseman said he was going to do. I’m also not saying there aren’t questions – that’s what this blog has been keeping us busy with for the last month and are so well articulated by Iskar above. My props are for making radical changes at the weakest and biggest areas of concern. Our O-Line allowed too many sacks last year, so we bring in a new coach and revamp the line with more mobile, athletic players. Our linebackers weren’t quick enough last year, we change people around and favoring energetic young guys, hand the starting Mike job to a rook. Questions, sure, but I’m admiring the confidence in their plan. RCB has been a perrenial problem so we bring, not one, but two Pro Bowlersin for the job. While we’re on the subject of probowlers: Vince Young and Ronnie Brown, ..(OK, back-ups but all pro just the same). All while adding another 10, or whatever it is, rookies to the squad, continuing the youth movement which last year didn’t prevent us making the playoffs. The FO is getting an A+ for boldness of plan and execution. When you’re putting together a team, it’s not just for this year, it’s for the future. The Eagles have put together a team that COULD win this year but will have an even better chance next year. What’s so bad about that?
After seeing what happened when we experimented with Greg Lewis a few years back, I would much rather keep DeSean back there. Maclin is probably the backup PR, so maybe he can go in when we are up big, but I also don’t want to risk injury to him.
i think desean should return punts… they can survive if he does indeed get hurt. but i also think they’ll have a safe PR guy too when they’re likely to be pinned way back in their zone.
my question is — is he going to play in the redzone this year? he’s just not built for that part of the field. i can see him coming out of the backfield maybe, but not at split end.
what is the likelihood that Brian Rolle takes the majority of snaps at MLB?
also, how do the eagles feel about Myron Rolle? Is he Eagles material? heck, is he NFL material?
@iskar & arby
I’ll get too long winded if I tried to outline everything, and I fear I’d bore you to death in trying anyway. Let me just say that we were an unfortunate INT away from perhaps beating the eventual SB champs.
Imagine if we had just stood pat this offseason, and stayed true to our schemes. Replace Danny Watkins with Jimmy Smith, Dowling, or Aaron Williams. Coaches stay the same. Bradley and Mikell re-sign. JJ comes back, and McGlynn takes over RG, right? King David is our RT. Kolb remains as our backup. In other words, we give the old schemes another year, and hope (once again) that the ball bounces our way, flawed as that strategy might be.
Are we better off right now?
Are we better off right now?
Sorry about typing that sentence twice. Stupid iphone.
Has Joselio Hanson signed with any other team – I really hope not with the Giants
@mcud
well danny watkins, bad choice or not, he’s on the team now. i can see trying to wait for round 2 (how many teams would honestly draft him so high, with him being (a) a guard, and (b) not going through an offseason until he’s 27 years old).
Heck, im ok with them starting deVan. He’s as old as watkins, plus he has mounds of experience above him. I feel a little better about the OL situation after they moved Herremans over and signed deVan. I think Herremans will be ok at RT. He was ok whenever he was put at tackle.
I’m somewhat more worried about Evan Mathis at RG now. Also, I’m wondering if Jason Peters will be more jumpy without the stalwart of Herremans next to him. I dont think they hold hands before the snap, but I’m sure he trusted Herremans a little bit with the snap count.
@mcud
The conservative approach has not worked, we’ve tried that for many years – whether it was Andy’s handling of the offensive play calling or the stagnant roster. At a certain point, Andy Reid changed. For me, it was when he was willing to take a chance on Michael Vick. But that also coincides with the rise of Howie Roseman’s influence in the FO. We now a solid core of good young players with a bunch of stars at key positions.
@arby
Hasn’t worked? Really?
This isn’t the NBA or MLB, where the best team generally wins a series. In the NFL, you have to be both good AND lucky. Seasons come down to single plays. The best way to win championships in the NFL is to get to the playoffs and get hot at the right time. I’d say we’ve done the first pretty well…
@mcud
True enough, but I never thought last year’s team was good enough to win it all and I’m not sure this year’s is either. I think we were lucky to be in that game against Green Bay at the end there but that we had been outplayed for most of the game. How’s that for being lucky? We’ve got to get better too and we’ve done that this off season.
Interesting article about methods of attacking the Eagles’ defense:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821f42e6/article/intriguing-storylines-abound-with-preseason-out-of-the-way
” 2. How should teams deal with the “Dream Team?”
During my camp tour, I asked many coaches how they would handle the supposed Philadelphia Eagles’ “Dream Team,” which is really a descriptive title for a group of three cornerbacks. Nnamdi Asomugha, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Asante Samuel are very good players, for sure, but they really are at the mercy of what offenses are willing to do. The most intriguing idea came from a coach who didn’t play the Eagles in the preseason, and I can’t wait to see if St. Louis employs any of his ideas in Week 1.
The offensive-minded coach was quick to say he would use a lot of 22 personnel (two tight ends, two running backs and one wide receiver) and build condensed formation packages that would keep the nickel defense off the field, consequently keeping one-third of the “Dream Team” on the bench and forcing at least one of the other two members to be in run support rather than coverage. The Rams have the running back in Steven Jackson, as well as the fullback and tight ends, to use this philosophy. As another coach said, “the Eagles want you to spread out your offense so they can match up; I wouldn’t do it.””
@Morton
that’s a very good find! I have read the article a couple of days ago.
I think this is something the Eagles D will have to be able to cope with in the season opener. We all know it’s going to be a big test for our LB’s, but I really hope that Patt and Dixon will step up and tighten up the run D.
As a result I see a low-scoring game that will come down to one FG being the difference…
That article seems to imply that the way to challenge the Eagles is obvious. In fact, it’s so obvious that it has been obvious to all of us since they started forming this 2011 Eagles team.
Run the ball, and make short passes to RBs and TEs. This is the best way to combat the stacked secondary, and to limit the number of times you put the ball in the “brave but dangerous” hands of Mike Vick.
Andy and Juan are rolling the dice here. The hope is that our D-line can disrupt run plays often enough to stop this slow grinding drive before they reach the red zone. If they do, it will be a masterpiece. If they don’t, it will be a frustrating nail biter.
“22 Package” – Attacking the Eagles
Seems to me this defense — if in fact, whether because of scheme or personnel, is weak against the run — conjures memories of 2003.
That year’s team couldn’t stop the run. But the Birds could score. And, during the regular season, the opponent usually had to start throwing eventually.
The CBs were: Vincent, Taylor, and Harris.
The Eagles made it to the NFC title game.
Where the Panthers ran and ran and ran . . . but only after out McNabb and having CB Ricky Manning manhandle 3rd-rate WRs Trash and Pinkston.
This team, even is soft up the middle on defense, should score points. Eventually, teams will be or should be — if the O-line can protect Vick most of the time — forced to throw the ball.
There’s no team out there that’s the 1972-73 Miami Dolphins — who could just pound the ball and entire game and win 24-7.
It may happen this year a few times. But not nearly enough to keep the Eagles from the playoffs.
Once there, though, as in 2003, the story may change.
When you look at all the Giants injuries (now Goff is lost for the season) you have to be really thankful for the Eagles pre-season..