Answer Time
Posted: January 26th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 72 Comments »You guys have asked a lot of questions in the last few days. I haven’t had a chance to really answer because I’ve been so focused on the Senior Bowl. Here goes:
Drafting a DE and how that affects Graham vs Tapp. This is definitely about Graham, but you have to understand that Brandon will be an Eagle in 2012 because the team wants to see if he can get back to where he was. The guy who would go is Tapp. He’s expendable. Graham is the future. We need to find out if he can play. Tapp is a good backup and can be an effective starter, but is a guy that could be replaced. He hasn’t done anything to lose his job, but circumstances may make him a guy that could go. The Eagles could always keep 6 DEs. That is possible.
Does Cam Johnson fit the Eagles at 6’4, 267? Jim Washburn’s favorite player is Kyle Vanden Bosch. He lists at 6’4, 270. Even if he’s a big lighter than that, the frame is very similar. Cam might also be able to play some snaps at DT. I need to do more tape study on him to really know his game inside-out. Jim doesn’t like midget DEs. He likes sleek guys. Remember that he had success with Dave Ball (6’6), Jevon Kearse (6’4), KVB (6’4, ), Antwan Odom (6’4) and Kevin Carter (6’5). A long frame is okay if the player has speed and can rush the passer.
Do you think Keenan Clayton could still be in the mix for the starting WLB? Keenan has the potential to push Rolle for the job. Keenan could possibly challenge for the SAM spot the way we play that. He simply must get with Barry Rubin and get bigger/stronger. Clayton must then show this summer that he can be an adequate run defender. The Eagles won’t pencil him in as a starter. He will get a chance to fight for a job. At the least, he could become a significant matchup specialist for the defense. Instead of moving Nnamdi down over TEs, put Keenan in there. That type of thing. This offseason is crucial for the direction his career will take. Keenan finished the season on a high note for the second year in a row. He needs to build on that momentum. He couldn’t last year.
Could Andre Branch be an Eagles target? Sure. Good pass rusher from Clemson that would fit the Wide-9. Not a special guy, but a quality pass rusher to add to the mix. I don’t know if they do have any interest. Just saying he could be a good fit here.
Graham’s draft status? We moved up to get Graham because Howie had done his research and knew that other teams were hot on the trail. Brandon wasn’t going to get anywhere close to the 20’s. Two teams that I’ve heard were really after him were Seattle and…the Giants.
Anyone know anything about Ark St. OLB Demario Davis? Played MLB down in Mobile. I’ll be covering him in my Day 3 North report. Took time out from working on that to do this.
Would you rate the MLB options for us? Let’s save that for a separate post. The one key thing is to understand we’re not just talking about players. Curtis Lofton might be the most appealing player due to age, build, and skill set, but he’ll also cost the most. Is that worth it for a 2-down player? D’Qwell Jackson has the injury history that you have to get comfortable with. And so on. The key thing for me is that there are several guys who I’d be happy to add as our MLB because they’d all be an improvement. We don’t need a star. We need a solid player. I won’t object to us going after a star, but we don’t need that. Just having a competent tackler in 2011 would have made a huge difference.
Drafting a DE early. Remember that we don’t have to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick to get a DE. We’ve had some guys emerge in the last couple of weeks that have helped to grow the number of DEs to choose from. Cam Johnson could be a 3rd round target. I’m still not sure about Jake Bequette. Because of Cole and Babin we can take a guy outside the 1st or 2nd round and see if he fits in here and can play. This isn’t a “need” thing where we’ll reach for Jerome McDougle. We’re taking a DE if we want one to add to the mix and the right guy is available.
Drafting BPA (best player available). This is absolutely what the Eagles want to be able to do. Watkins was a need pick. He clearly wasn’t BPA last year. The Eagles may see a WR like Michael Floyd and really want him. They may take a look at DT Dontari Poe and really want him. They may fall in love with some CB. When it comes to the 1st round, you want to find the player with special ability, if that guy is available. After all, we’re just an ACL away from needing help at any position.
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Adam Caplan reported that the Eagles are set to acquire OT D.J. Jones from the Ravens. Go here to read the details. I’ll dig up some notes on him and post them later. Could be a good addition. I think King Dunlap will get signed by another team as a potential starter. Not sure what Winston Justice’s future holds. We may need backup OT help.
As I mentioned to Tommy on twitter, Philip Hunt is also pretty expendable. He’s 26 while Tapp is 27. If Hunt works hard he might become as good as Tapp. Hunt embodies the type of guy who you get an upgrade on if you can.
I think we’re looking at this differently Sam.
Hunt is the #5 DE. He’s a situational pass rusher. He came up with 2 sacks last year despite limited snaps.
Tapp would lose his spot to the draft pick. For example, could be Vinny Curry (2nd Rd), Cam Johnson (3rd Rd), Jake Bequette (3rd ), or someone in the 4th. That guy would take Tapp’s spot in the overall sense of things. Hunt might get the initial reps while the rookie learns, but the rookie would be the guy the team would look at as a possible future starter.
By your plan, we’ have:
Cole – Tapp – rookie
Babin – Graham
I’m saying:
Cole – rookie – Hunt
Babin- Graham
Hunt and the rookie would combine to make less than Tapp, right?
This isn’t a plan to get rid of Tapp. This is what would happen if the team sees a DE they want. Tapp is older and more expensive so I think he’d get cut and the rookie would take his spot. Hunt would stay as the designated pass rusher.
I’m saying year 1:
Cole – Tapp – rookie
Babin – Graham
Year 2:
Cole – rookie – New Rookie
Babin – Graham
I think my plan is better for the team short term and long term, unless for some reason Hunt is more than a JAG. Which I don’t believe.
That’s fine.
I do think the Eagles like Hunt more than you. They don’t see him as a JAG at all.
If you look at it from a Cap perspective; Hunt doesn’t cost any money to be cut, and Tapp does. The rookie is likely an upgrade to Hunt and will more than likely make the same.
OT: How many total DT/DE’s did the Eagles carry on the 53 this year? How many are we likely to have total this year?
Well, if you dump Hunt you save ~450k. If you dump Tapp you save ~2.5 million. So it makes more sense to cut Tapp.
You’re missing the cap hit you take if you cut Tapp… Is it worth taking the cap hit for nothing? It’s more than just Tapp vs Hunt on the field, you have to work make the cap work for the team too…
First, you don’t have to cut anyone until the end of camp, Tapp definitely would have trade value, Hunt less so. I think they’d want to see how Graham is progressing, if he’s 100% and the rookie looks good, then Tapp goes, if not, Graham might go. If Graham isn’t back by next August, his career is pretty much over, chronic knees rarely get better.
The Eagles gave up a 4th round pick and Clemons for Tapp.
Think they’d make that deal again?
Got to view in the circumstances.
At the time they were playing a hybrid one/gap two/gap system, and DEs needed to be able to line up over the OT, Clemons was too small to be anything but a designated pass rusher.
Clemons went to Seattle and played in the elephant, where he basically lines up as a wide 9 RDE. Had Howie known Sean would be fired and Washburn brought in a year later, he wouldn’t have made the trade.
However, Tapp has been a solid player, certainly worth a 4th rd pick and a scrub DE. Which is what the trade was at the time (remember, they also let Babin walk because he didn’t fit Sean’s defense).
Wouldn’t Clayton adding muscle and weight lead to him slowing down and taking away from his one ability that grades out above average. Worried he just becomes bad if he loses a step.
We’re not bulking him up to 240. He needs to get to 233 or so from the 225 range. Barry Rubin can add 8-10 pounds of muscle. Clayton is a lean guy. He can get bigger without losing too much speed.
Or if the Eagles want him to stay lean, he limits himself to being a role player. That wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. He was a 4th round pick so if he can be a STer and backup, that’s good value.
Ike Reese had a pretty good career at 225 lbs, but he was tougher mentally.
A lot of WLBs are in the 230-235 lb range.
I am still baffled by this silence @ DC. Of all the years to be bold with your direction, even if that means Juan, so that you go into the offseason with a well defined plan, this seems like the year. The only reason I can understand waiting is if the potential candidate is on a team in the SB, but I don’t see anyone there that fits the bill. The interviews with Juan underline how awkward this is for all parties involved, and I wonder how this plays out to potential free agents, especially defensive ones, who may see this as Andy’s lame duck year. Is a Lofton going to sign with a team where the de facto DC does not even know what his title is? It is embarrassing, and you get the impression every time this happens that they are more concerned with coming off looking like whatever the outcome was happened to be their plan all along than seriously analyzing the situation.
Patience.
T-LAW:
What do you know and when did you know it!!!
I know nothing (just ask some readers). Andy’s just so methodical that this has a feel to it like something is in the works.
Andy’s made me look like a fool before so I promise nothing. Just a vibe.
On the other hand, Andy hasn’t announced who next year’s OC will be, either.
If he is planning to stick with Juan it would be a bit of a slap to announce that plan. It would be admitting publicly that it wasn’t a given.
I hope it’s Trgovac…
That was exactly the same way I felt at the beginning of the offseason, but now, with even Juan sounding unsure, you can’t pretend like the question is not floating around. It isn’t a given. It has been asked constantly by the media and the fans and some players are even unsure. At that point, pretending like questions don’t exist doesn’t really make sense to me. At least by making a statement in support of Juan, it gives Juan and the players on defense a sense of comfort.
Originally, I agreed with you that we need to be patient. In fact, I didn’t think AR needed to say anything to the media. But now that it is coming off as if Castillo himself is unsure of his future (and sounds like a guy who lacks confidence), I think AR has a responsibility to the team to come out and either fully support Castillo or make a new hire. It’s been nearly a month since we heard from Lurie, and with players on the team coming out and asking if Juan is still the DC, AR needs to come out and make a statement about DC.
AR will. I’m sure he’s waiting for one PC to cover several issues. That keeps him from having to do multiple PCs. Not saying that’s right, just a guess at what he’s thinking.
Mostly I think Andy was waiting for me to get back from Mobile.
Let’s put these trivial matters of Hunt vs Tapp aside for now and address a more serious report I saw earlier, which is that over the last few days it’s being reported that PBR sales have reached record levels in Mobile, AL. Town officials are actually worried that if this pace keeps up, supply may not be able to keep up and they could suffer their first ever PBR shortage. When does the Senior Bowl end?
Thomas “He Hate Me” Lawlor, do have any comment on this issue?
p.s. don’t know why i went with that nickname, but it just felt right. maybe since ur son is nicknamed “Little Ball of Hate”.
Tonight I’ll put up a post on the trip. Good times. Had to stay under control since I was around classy people and at a big event.
You better scoop if you have a scoop! Don’t do that to us Tommy! Don’t be THAT guy!
I wish I had some beans to spill.
Unfortunately, I had them for lunch on Tuesday. And dinner on Wed. All beans are … all gone.
I’d love to tell you guys some crazy moves are on the way. I’m just sharing how I feel. AR went public last year with definitive comments and things went differently.
My sense is that he’s waiting for something (person, situation, negotiation, etc.) so that he can make an announcement and there will be no changing of minds and that type thing. Remember that some guys were HC candidates around the league. Maybe Andy was waiting to see what happened with Marty to figure out if he’d have to address OC.
I feel like something’s up. Don’t know what. And just because they try something doesn’t mean it will work. AR could easily come out and just announce the status quo with Juan/Marty.
Our D Coordinator of the future could be coaching on Feb 5th for all we know. Endless possibilities floating through the head given the uncertainty and silence.
Tommy,
I like your idea of filling the Mike spot with a veteran from another team. If that were to happen, wouldn’t Chaney be a great candidate to play Will? I have always felt that was the ideal position for him anyway. He and Rolle are simiilar, except he is a little bigger than Rolle, right?
Then, draft a bigger athletic guy to play SAM, to jam and cover the TE’s.
Most important, they need to bring in one or two guys with attitude and swagger. This defense lacks an identity and a leader to rally the team. They used to have Hugh Douglas, Dawkins, Trotter, even Vincent brought physicality and swagger. I miss that aspect and think that is the biggest intangible missing from the defense.
Also, I remember reading somewhere that the backup MLB for San Francisco might be a real stud. which guy is that and what do you think?
Thanks
Sounds like you’re referring to Larry Grant. Dude can play, was particularly impressive against the Steelers. I think he’d be a shrewd pickup, especially since he appears ready to be a starter but just so happens to play behind two of the league’s best ILBs.
Unimportant breaking news…AQ Shipley just signed with the Colts.
I heard they were working to get this deal done before Saturday……(end transmission)
Very nice.
Shame, everything but height and arms.
Vlachos from Alabama will end up the same story, 6’0, 30″ arms, just giving away too many inches of reach.
There’s a reason scouts have minimum sizes for height and arm length.
I think one reason Herremans struggled at RT was 33″ arms, he tended to cheat a little outside because he didn’t have the reach to cut off the edge and would get beat on inside moves.
Which is why I wouldn’t be shocked if someone like Martin or Reiff drop and the Eagles take them. And I’d be totally fine with that pick.
What about the idea of Savage talking to all those DE’s to take other teams off of our trail to drafting Lukie Boy?
Absolutely. The Eagles to believe in spreading mis-information. We don’t know for sure what’s what until after the draft when we go back and connect the dots.
Wish we would trade up for Coples…. Now that’s a BPA
Not once in my lifetime have the Eagles done well by trading up in the first round.
I think Coples is a cant miss kinda guy.
Even if you are right, one injury later, he isn’t.
I agree, I wouldn’t jump past people to grab him, but there is a chance he falls, and if he does…. I think HR pulls the trigger.
I don’t think he falls past Miami and Jacksonville. Would Dallas pick him as a DE? They would have picked J.J. Watt last year if Smith wasn’t available…
How about Jeremy Maciln? I think that worked out rather well.
Really? I’m disappointed in Machlin. I know he was sick, but I don’t think he’s lived up to his potential. At Missouri he was a beast. Don’t get me wrong. He’s a great receiver. Just not Elite. He also seems to be made of glass and is good to miss 3-4 games a year. I really think the eagles need to get better depth at WR. I love Micheal Floyd and would love for him to be an Eagle. I am on the fence about desean. I’m scared to get rid of him, but also tired of his act.
I forget who it was made this point, but once the rules on hitting defense less receivers went into effect, speed became less valuable and a big guy you can hit over the middle and in the end zone became much more valuable.
So I am agreeing with you re Floyd > DeSean
That’s really unfair.
The guy though he had CANCER, and might DIE, looking at him in training camp, he lost at least 10 lbs and probably more, I thought he’d be PUP’ed, instead he started the first game.
It’s not surprising he was dinged last year, never had a chance to get into football shape, normally would have probably put 5 lbs of muscle in an off season program.
He’s my breakout candidate this year, he has the smooth route running of an elite WR, and should be able to bulk up to 205-210 lbs without slowing down.
That is a good point and I had forgotten but it only cost a 6th so not much of a trade up. Whereas, Brandon Graham, Jerome McDougle, Shawn Andrews, I could go on.
The Eagles almost always carry 10DL. The big question is how Washburn wants to allocate within that. Jenkins can play DE. Laws played some DE last year. Babin/Cole took a few snaps inside on obvious passing downs. A guy like Melvin Ingram can play both. Graham struggled at DT in his rookie year. Hunt/Tapp are NOT inside guys. Dixon/Patterson are DT only.
If Washburn wants more scheme versatility, then one of Hunt/Tapp are gone. At least Dixon gives Wash a “different’ type of body to work with.
Any doubt the Eagles will pick-up Jenkins’ $7.5 bonus?
Jenkins has been circumspect in his comments. And Eagles management has said nothing.
Why not?
What did you think of Brandon Thompson, phlly.com and some other site I visited seem to think he showed well at DT.
Tommy,
When you can find players that only fit a particular system (like the wide-9) in the later rounds, isn’t it a waste to use a high pick on someone? Do I make any sense? I’m not sure my english is good enough to prove my point…
I would love Coples to come in and play DT for us, but other than that, I wouldn’t pick a DE before the 4th round. We have way bigger needs, and I think we can find specialists that fit our D-line scheme later on.
Regarding Tapp vs. Hunt I think it would be a mistake to just ship Tapp out of town because of some rookie. He is only 27 years old (Like Watkins, who we have high future hopes for), and he’s proved to be a good backup for us. There’s many years left in him.
I also like Tapp. More than Graham frankly.
Someone on twitter mentioned that the agent of WR Joe Adams said that he runs a 4.25 40, and have been told that he’d get picked in the 2nd round, maaaybe even in the 1st.
Is that just an agent trying to get his clients name out there? Or does agents in fact talk to scouts, who reveals their grades to the agent? How does it all work? Does someone have any insight knowledge to this?
It’s called hype.
Don’t believe any 40 time until the combine and pro days.
No one runs 4.25, most of the guys who supposedly did came to the combine and ran more like 4.45.
You’re 100% right, but what I don’t understand is, why create that kind of hype? It’s something that he will end up having to prove right or wrong in the end. If he is right, the early hype doesn’t mean a whole lot because the hype will be built from a time like that in the combine. If he is wrong, people will start questioning his talent.
I’ve seen the Giants linked to Kuechly. Could this turn out to be a repeat of Graham/Pierre-Paul where the Eagles nab the more polished player and the Giants strike gold by going for the raw athletic specimen with upside in Burfict?
Hey Tommy,
I’m curious to hear what you think about Graham’s future. If I remember correctly you liked the pick when it was made. Do you feel less optimistic about his future now based on what you’ve seen in his limited appearances, or do you discount what we’ve seen so far because of his injury?
I’ve been considering him a clean slate, a guy we can’t yet judge. would you agree with that, or have you seen enough to temper the optimism you might have had on his draft day?
The wide 9 was made for a player with Graham’s skills, except for height.
But microfracture surgery is more serious than the Eagles have pretended, not as bad as a MCL/ACL, but much more serious than a routine ACL.
I think the Colts’ DEs — Freeney and Mathis — proved that if the D-line scheme is to have the ends just blow up field to get the QB, height’s not an issue.
AGREE that Graham’s production may never be as projected because of the microfracture surgery. Cornelius Ingram times 5.
Kind of off-topic question… would Josh Johnson be an upgrade over the soon-departed Vince Young and/or Mike Kafka? I’ve kept an eye on him since his days at San Diego, and would like the prospect of bringing him in via FA. But I know the Bucs like him, and I’m sure Harbaugh would consider bringing him into the fold in SF too.
“Do you think Keenan Clayton could still be in the mix for the starting WLB? He simply must get with Barry Rubin and get bigger/stronger. Clayton must then show this summer that he can be an adequate run defender.”
That’s it in a nutshell. Clayton played better after ST work, where he was forced to play physical, if he carries it forward, adds 5 lbs of muscle and gets some ‘tude, he can be a starting WLB. But it’ll take a lot to beat out the lil ball of hate.
“Graham’s draft status? We moved up to get Graham because Howie had done his research and knew that other teams were hot on the trail.”
It was still a need reach, and I think Howie now realizes it. Keep those two 3rds and you don’t have to trade back out of #55 unless you want to, missed a lot of good players by reaching.
“Drafting a DE early. Remember that we don’t have to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick to get a DE.”
The wide nine gives you more options. You can draft a lean undersized DE in the middle rounds who isn’t suited to 3-4 OLB but too small to start for years in most systems. You can sign someone like Trevor Scott if you want competition in camp. You have 5 picks in the first 100 or so, so you can take a DE if the value is there. Even more so at DT, where a lot of teams won’t even look at Eagle candidates, or see them as middle round 3-4 DEs who have to beef up.
“Drafting BPA (best player available). This is absolutely what the Eagles want to be able to do. ”
Having the draft come before free agency screwed up a lot of plans last year. You use free agency to fill every hole, even if it’s with a one year contract, go into a draft with a team you’d be happy to start the season.
“Adam Caplan reported that the Eagles are set to acquire OT D.J. Jones from the Ravens.”
One year starter, not the typical meat and potatoes Nebraska lineman. 6’5, 310 lbs 33 1/2 arms, so marginal OT material, but built a lot like Mathis. Very athletic workout.
[4.92 1.75 19 4.83 7.50 26 8’2]
Probably needs an off season with Rubin to add strength and get more explosive, and maybe even slim down to play OG. Or be a swing man.
Interesting issue on DL heights.
Patterson, Laws, Landri, Cole, Graham, Hunt. . . short people got no reason . . .
Washburn likes the tall lanky guys, and for good reason, they can still disrupt a short passing game when they don’t get to the QB (ask Mr. Vick), which has become increasingly important in today’s NFL (and it helps your coverage if you can force the QB to double pump).
Tommy, I’d keep that in mind looking at potential draft picks, I don’t see the Eagles adding more short people to the DL.
long arms are also good at swatting the ball out of the qb’s hand as you go by him on ur pass rush
RE: drafting a QB — paging Trent Green
By all accounts — including T-Law’s (I think) — Okla State’s Brandon Weeden was head and shoulders better than the other QBs.
The downside is Weeden is 28, though a very mature 28 with 5 years of pro-baseball experience that toughened his mental hide.
All in all, I think Weeden would be a nice choice in the late 2nd/early 3rd round (trading down from one of the mid-2nd round picks the Eagles have).
Weeden’s been compared to former Heisman winner Chris Weinke.
But I think a Trent Green analogy may be just as fair — maybe more so, since Weeden looks more mobile than Weinke ever was. The way Trent Green was.
Trent Green didn’t become an NFL player until age 27. A starter at 28. Missed all of the season in which he was 29 (watching Kurt Warner).
Then Green went to KC and had 5 pretty good to great years w/ 2 pro bowls. And he’d have had another couple years but for concussions. (Here’s TG’s stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm.)
Weeden may fit that mold. He’s 6’4″ 220 lbs or so. Great size. And barely any football wear and tear.
Age aside, he’s been in a spread offense at OSU, taking nearly all snaps in the gun formation (per National Football Post).
But I’ll defer to T-LAW on this issue.
Regardless, I’d love to see the Eagles get a TALL QB again in the stable.
The interesting thing about Weeden being 28 is QB’s seem to have a long shelf life these days, guys into their mid 30’s are still elite top flight QB’s, so if you draft Weeden you might get 8 or 9 years of productivity despite his age.
What round is he projected?
He’s probably a first round talent. He’s by far better than Tannehill. However because of his age he may slip anywhere from 2 to the middle rounds. The absolutely latest I see him going is the top 10 picks of round 5. And that is only if he has a poor combine or interview.
Probably goes right around where you like him, as a day 2 pick.
What is Deseans value in a tag and trade scenario? 2nd or 3rd? I would the eagles to get a MLB in FA, 1st take Floyd, take boykin and cam Johnson in the 2nd use ther 3rd and or 3rds (Asante/desean) on Kennan Robinson and Audie Cole and one of their 4ths on Joe Adams.
I actually don’t think the Eagles will sign and trade DeSean. They’ll either sign him and keep him or let him walk. Sam would have to verify this, but depending on what type of people the Eagles sign compared to who they lose, DeSean would get them a 3rd round compensatory pick in next year’s draft. Obviously that pick is a back end pick and less valuable than a 2012 3rd round, but still. It requires no risk on the Eagles part.
What do you think of Jaye Howard Tommy?
He’s my favourite midround target so far.
Well, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my Cam Johnson remarks, Tommy!
Interesting to hear Demario was playing MLB. If he has that kind of versatility I’m even more intrigued as a mid-round prospect.