Benedict Grigson Goes To Colts
Posted: January 11th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 57 Comments »Et tu, Ryan?
Ryan Grigson is a traitor. He took a promotion with the Colts rather than staying in place and hoping that in 5 to 7 years he might have a chance at that job here in Philly. What kind of a man does something like that?
So now the Andy Reid tree is getting weird. He’s got 2 GMs (Heckert, Grigson), as well as head coaches, coordinators, and assistants. Kinda crazy.
Congrats to Ryan Grigson for getting the job in Indy. He is exactly what that franchise needs. Bill Polian ruled with an iron fist. Grigson is more of a people person. That’s a good change of pace for the people he’ll be working with.
Ryan steps into a tough situation. He’s got to figure out what to do with Peyton Manning. He has the #1 pick. Scouting tip for Ryan…Andrew Luck’s neck is healthy. Grigson then has to decide what to do with the coaching staff.
Sam has been putting up lots of good nuggets on Twitter this morning. He’s a must follow for any of you who are on Twitter. Sam made the suggestion that Marty Mornhinweg would be a good HC for the Colts since he could help develop Luck. A couple of local and national writers have since jumped on the idea, but Sam was the first to mention it.
I have no idea what Grigson thinks of Marty or wants in a coach. I have serious doubts about Marty as a HC, but having him there to develop Luck would make sense. Personally, I’d take Rob Chudzinski over him in a heartbeat. Pete Carmichael is another guy I’d think strongly about.
Should Marty be a target, you wonder if he’d consider going after Castillo to be his DC. Castillo would be a better fit there, since the Colts are in rebuilding mode. Or maybe Marty could talk Juan into coming over as OL coach and Assistant HC. Lots of possibilities.
* * * * *
Enough Colts talk. How does this affect the Eagles?
Howie Roseman has a challenge. Grigson’s title was Director of Player Personnel, but really he was the College Scouting Director. That meant that Grigson was a scout, but also an administrator. He scouted players himself, but also had to help compile information from other scouts and then make sense of it.
Grigson was a gatekeeper. He could figure out which information was important and pass that along. He didn’t necessarily send up every bit of info from every scout. You need someone who can tell what’s pertinent and what isn’t. Andy Reid and Howie Roseman are very busy men. They need streamlined info coming to them.
We don’t need someone to be the Director of Player Personnel. We need a College Scouting Director. Right now the Assistant Director of College Scouting is a guy named Anthony Patch. I think Patch is a Tom Heckert guy. Patch started off with the Dolphins and was hired here in 2002, when Heckert was running things.
Patch used to be the Western area scout. He was promoted from that job to where he currently is back in February of 2010. Scouting the western region may not sound like a big deal, but think about DeSean Jackson, Mike Patterson, and Winston Justice. That is 3 Top 50 players from the west coast area that were taken by us. The first scout to write reports on them was Patch.
Patch would have scouted late rounders like Mike Gibson, Joe Mays, and Brandon Gibson, who have both started in the league. He would have scouted CB Brandon Hughes, who the Eagles signed off a Practice Squad. Patch wrote reports on him from Hughes time at Oregon State. Go back to 2003 and Patch would have been the first Eagles scout to cover Quintin Mikell at Boise State (back when Boise State wasn’t “Boise State, football power”).
Promoting Patch would seem to be the way to go. He’s got a good track record. He’s been here a long time. He worked well with Tom Heckert, Jason Licht, and Howie Roseman. Hopefully Patch would want the job. The only hold up would be if he really wanted to go work for Heckert in Cleveland or Grigson in Indy. Patch would then just let his contract run out and leave. Doesn’t seem like a likely scenario, but is possible. He’s been with the Eagles long enough that I think getting promoted to College Scouting Director here would make him a very happy man.
Here is an article on Patch from a newspaper that is near his alma mater, Carroll College. Here is his bio on PE.com.
Speaking of Heckert and Grigson, they could pluck scouts away from the Eagles. This wouldn’t happen until after the draft. That’s when scouting contracts generally expire. If we keep Patch in place, this isn’t a huge concern. He’s a football guy and will have ideas on some young guys to hire. Scouting isn’t what it used to be. You don’t see a ton of 50 and 60-year old guys in the business anymore.
Losing Patch and Grigson would be tough for us. Howie Roseman isn’t a football guy with a network of low-level contacts. He can work the phones for a trade just fine, but rebuilding a scouting staff would be a challenge for him. Howie might do well, but it would be an area where he’s outside his comfort zone. I think he’s smart enough to realize this.
Howie kept Ryan Grigson around as long as possible. He truly valued Ryan’s presence because of his extensive football background. That’s something you have or you don’t. Howie will know he needs a guy there beside him with a similar background. Give Patch the job and you’re probably doing the right thing.
There are a couple of other guys in the mix. Phil Savage is a Player Personnel Executive. He’s also the color analyst for Alabama football games. Savage was once GM of the Cleveland Browns. He is an old school football guy, but has had trouble getting a gig befitting a man of his experience and background. I’m not real sure why that is. Phil is basically here as an SEC adviser. He doesn’t have power, but can be a good source of info because of his SEC knowledge and background. I don’t see Savage being added with a position of power.
Louis Riddick is the Director of Pro Personnel. He’s got an excellent reputation around the league and has done good thing in his time in Philly. Riddick has an extensive pro background, but minimal college experience. He’s never been a full time college scout. Riddick is a cross-check scout. He will study some college players that other scouts have evaluated. The goal is to see if Riddick is seeing the same things as the college scout. If the reports are the same, cool. If they differ greatly, the player needs to be re-evaluated by someone else until a consensus is reached. Riddick does this simply via tape study. He’s not a guy that has gone to campuses to gather information and scout players.
The Eagles could give Riddick the title of Director of Player Personnel as a reward for his good work, but the team would still need Patch to be the College Scouting Director. Giving someone the title of Director of Player Personnel in this situation is like naming someone Assistant head coach. It is more than just a figurehead title, but not much more. You still have a primary job of being the college guy or being the pro guy.
I’m interested to see how all of this plays out. Maybe Howie will shock me and go outside the organization. Maybe he’s developed more of a network than I know. I doubt it since he’s only worked for the Eagles, but Howie has surprised me a few times. My money is on promoting Patch. Safe move. Smart move.
Another name to watch is Brett Veach, if for no other reason than he was AR’s coaching assistant for a couple of years. I could see him being the Director of College Scouting to Patch’s Player Personnel Director. Sean Gustus seems like a guy who has been waiting a long time as well, and could be due a promotion.
I don’t see moving Riddick to Player Personnel doing much the help the organization other than make them weaker in two roles. He isn’t a college guy, and we don’t have a really experienced pro personnel guy in waiting, though Ahmad Russell could be a candidate if they go that way.
Riddick to Player Personnel wouldn’t be a move so much as a title change. He’d still be the head of pro personnel. You just give him a bit more say on draft day. That’s really it.
Grigson wasn’t true head of Player Personnel. He was the College Scouting Director with a bit more power.
Other organizations use Director of Player Personnel as job to over see College/Pro in place of having a GM.
Think duties more than titles. Riddick is pro guy. Will stay pro guy. We need someone to be head college guy.
We haven’t had a Dir Play Pers who wasn’t the defacto head of college scouting, have we? Howie was college only … Licht was college only … and I think that was when the title was created.
That was actually the first name that popped into my head, Sam.
Brett went to the high school down the road from mine. Our local paper had an article a year or two ago about how Brett was the key man that urged Andy to draft DeSean. The article sort of puffed him up more than necessary though since they sort of stated Brett “discovered” DeSean like he was some guy that not many people knew about.
This is the kind of stuff we can’t get anywhere else. Enjoy it.
Carroll College, eh? I’ve been there. That’s probably not a good thing.
Here’s some additional stuff on Veach.
“I feel we have strengthened our personnel staff with these moves,” said Eagles’ general
manager Howie Roseman in a press release when Veach was promoted. “Brett Veach has shown a keen eye for talent evaluation. He has been somebody we have given more and more responsibility to in the last couple of years and when I was hired into this role I immediately tried to convince Coach Reid to let him come to the personnel side. He has a passion for the job and is going to help us in his new role.”
Read more: http://newsitem.com/sports/mca-grad-brett-veach-heads-to-combine-as-newest-member-of-eagles-scout-staff-1.640571#ixzz1jCHjGnsU
Also, I can’t find the original article I was talking about but GCobb linked to the original awhile back.
http://gcobb.com/2009/06/01/reid-assistant-key-to-picking-djax/
“He (Jackson) is my assistant Brett Veach’s favorite guy. I’m not sure we pick DeSean if it wasn’t for Brett. He put the first claim on him. He broke down all our receivers for us and he came in and said this kid here is a first round pick. If he doesn’t pan out, I’m going to Brett with this.”
I thought that quote from Reid was just a little too in praise of Veach. Most analysts had DeSean as a first round talent. I don’t know why Reid needed to talk to Veach about that one.
Going into full-blown rumor/speculation mode: if Marty leaves, who gets his old job? Doug Pederson? Someone from outside the organization?
Chilly is obvious. I would guess that Culley is the most likely internal candidate. Castillo is possible, but unlikley because it would be such a hard sale externally and perhaps even internally.
Right, Culley’s title seems to place him next in line. Childress could be pretty interesting. He and Reid would be able to dine together as much as they want!
My guess would be David Culley, although it is possible that Brad Childress could be brought back.
Castillo as DC and Culley as OC in back to back years is Reid’s method of getting severance from the Eagles.
In any other year, Culley might be the choice but after the disaster this year at DC and this possibly being AR’s last season unless he “gets it right”, he might feel like he would have to turn to someone with experience.
He goes fishing with Chilly every year and he has the experience and trust AR needs to show that he is seriously trying to improve.
On the other hand, could Chilly get Vick back to where he was in 2010? Could Culley?
How bout Marty goes to the Colts as their HC and takes Juan with him to be their OC?!? Why not…he once coached the offensive lineman, and he has watched Shady run the ball a couple times. I heard he once helped his son’s highschool coach call a play in one of his sons high school games!! He would be great. The Colts could move their OC to DC. Marty could then develope Luck. Oh and they can resign Kyle Devan to be the stud that Philly held him back from being!!
We on the other hand could bring in Spags to be DC, Bowles to coach the DBs and then get Schotenheimer to be the OC. Its a win/win for everyone.
wait, shottenheimer the OC for the jets?
no thanks.
watching that game vs the giants, their run game was clicking and they continued to put the ball in mark sanchez’s inept hands to blow the game. i dont want another OC that can’t see what is working and what is not.
Tommy, this could be your shot! Better clean up your movie and porn star references.
Eagles Franchise desean – He will shut up with 7 mil in his pocket for some bling!! Deal with him next year.
Give Shady a new contract
Go balls in for Curtis Lofton
Resign Mathis
Sign Veteran safety to push Coleman/Jarret/Allen
Sign Jason Jones as insurance against Patterson (doesnt he need brain surgery this year?
Drop JJ, Young, Smith, Brown, Justice, Fokou, Parker, Samuel (trade to Lions for a second)
AJ Feely as backup next year?
Draft Zack Brown in the 1st
Get Bobby Wagner or Audie Cole in the later rounds for MLB/OLB Depth. )
Use 2 seconds on a WR (Big, physical) CB
1. Resign DeSean
2. Resign Mathis
3. Draft Leuchly
4. Sign Jason Jones
5. Sign Ted Ginn
6. Sign a FB
7. Hire Spags
8. Trade Asante
9. Fill out depth at DE, OT, CB, LB with draft picks
10. Sign Shaun Hill
How can hire Spags and trade Asante be lower on your list than sign a nameless FB?
The DC move should precede any signings, and the new DC would hopefully have input on whether he wants one of his major stars back (but let’s hope he doesn’t) so I’m just going to assume your list was not in order of importance.
No particular order. Just a list of things I want done as soon as they came to my head.
Fair enough. Makes sense.
If they franchise DeSean, we’re talking like $11 million, not $7.
That’s correct. However don’t forget that we will be freeing up a lot of cap space once we get rid of VY, Brown, JJ, Justice and Asante.
Actually, based on the new formula, franchising DeSean would likely be in the $9.4 to $9.8 million range.
http://footballoutsiders.com/under-cap/2012/under-cap-2012-tag-projections
What kind of contract do you think he’ll get on the open market?
If that Eagle salary website is correct, Eagles don’t have a lot of wriggle room this season.
$14M right now.
cut/trade Asante, Justice and JJ, up to $26M
sign Mathis, Landri, say $6M in 2012 between them, $20M
do you extend Maclin, McCoy?, That’ll cost you $10M or so, depending how much roster bonus, pro rata bonus and salary.
Gee, now you have to sign rookies, $3M? keep a slush fund for injuries $2M, you’re down to $11M.
Franchise DeSean and you’re finished for the offseason.
There’s no rush to extend Maclin and McCoy. I would wait till after next season when you have the option of cutting Babin and Jenkins based on the production they give you and the production you get from Quintin Coples and Jason Jones.
Haha I like that little bit at the end there.
Yeah that was slick.
Because you bring over cap space from 2011 to 2012.
Because you save junks of money with Jamal Jackson and Winston Justice and pretty likely Asante. And whoop you are in the 30M+ region
I love this article, I just can’t get past the 4th paragraph, my new lucky number.
Keep your fingers crossed.
In my excitement I lost the ability to count, it’s the 5th paragraph.
No worries. We genius Americanz know you Brits aren’t as well educated as us. That’s how we beat you in WWII.
I guess I better stay quiet then…
Ha! Well played, sir.
Why are you making nice with the guys who bombed Pearl Harbor?
Did JapEagle bomb pearl harbor?
Thanks buddy. Some people still seem to think that I am responsible for things that happened over 60 years ago!
And your new Eagles OC is…. Brian Billick, who will proceed to breathe even newer life into the aging Vick (just like he did with Cunningham).
So, it is possible we could have a FUBAR situation?
The only way we’d have a FUBAR type of situation is if all the top personnel guys bolted. If Grigson hires Riddick and Patch, that would hurt a lot. We need someone to stick around for the sake of stability. Losing one of those guys would be tough, but that’s life in the NFL. You can’t keep all your good people.
The Eagles always plan ahead and have young guys developing. Problem is that they don’t always work out (see Sean McDermott for an example).
At the same time, as long we get through this free agency period and draft with the current guys minus Grigson in place, it would be a while before we’d be FUBAR’d or even know if we were or not.
Would Marty ever consider dropping to OC at Penn State? I guess that would qualify as a demotion but he’d be there with his kid.
No way. Marty isn’t leaving Philly unless he gets a head coaching gig. Indy is his best hope for that. And I’m still doubtful that he gets one. Gifted offensive mind, but not necessarily a guy I want running my franchise. Maybe Grigson and Irsay will feel different. Marty is a good QB coach.
If I understand correctly, Marty will be paid more in salary than Bill O’Brien next year. So no.
After reading this article on Blogging the Beast: http://bloggingthebeast.com/2012/01/02/the-senior-bowl-and-the-nfc-east/ , I’m starting to think that replacing Grigson is only a matter of sending someone to the senior bowl. If we’ve been doing any other scouting at all outside of the senior bowl it sure doesn’t seem to be showing up in our picks.
However, it’s hard to claim the Eagles have overdrafted the last two years due to the Senior Bowl.
You might make a case for Graham, but it’s easy to forget in his last 23 college starts, he has 20.5 sacks and 25.5 stuffs, and had a solid workout at 268 lbs (though a 31″ vertical is not good for a DE). While I didn’t think he was worth a trade up, I doubt the Senior Bowl made much of a difference in his evaluation.
You might make a better case for Allen being overdrafted due to a great Senior Bowl, but if so, it wasn’t a serious reach.
Lindley certainly didn’t have a good Senior Bowl and the others were drafted in the late rounds.
Given that some OTs they passed over performed well at the Senior Bowl, there were probably other factors involved in taking Watkins, like how well he performed at LT for Baylor in a pass happy offense in a conference with NFL caliber pass rushers. What the Senior Bowl did for him was show scouts he was a credible OG.
I don’t think Jarrett did anything at the SB that merited reaching for him in the 2nd rd, in fact, he didn’t look as good there as he did during the college season.
Marsh hardly got mentioned by anyone at the SB, he was draft in the late 3rd round as a pure upside pick due to his size, 6’1 197, speed, 4.42, and the fact that he held his own at CB after switching from RB.
Again, the rest were late round picks or UDFAs.
I think they used the Senior Bowl to take a closer look at the players they already like.
Now in the past, there have been guys like Hunt who they did over draft due to big Senior Bowl performances, but they seemed to have learned their lesson.
I was just making a snide joke, but your response made for good reading.
It just made me think.
I’m trying to think if any other misses were big Senior Bowl “hits” other than Hunt.
2003: McDougle – had a big SB
2006:
Bunkley – bulked up from 285 lbs to 300 lbs, and retained his quickness, impressing scouts, but they should have kept this in mind: “Bunkley too often got a great initial surge, only to lose track of the ball and run himself out of the play. ” How prophetic of his career.
MJG: “Jean-Gilles neutralized LSU DL Kyle Williams in one-on-one situations with his long arms.” MJG had a big SB, but we never saw him handle guys like Kyle in the NFL
2007:
Kolb – struggled at the SB
Hunt – Hunt was named the 2007 Under Armour Senior Bowl Most Valuable Player. Turns out his horrible pro day was a better predictor than his game film or the SB.
Bradley – impressive SB as a SLB, maybe we should bring him back for that role?
Can’t blame the SB for Bryon Smith or Teo.
Why do the Eagles value speed over size? Packers, Saints, Steelers, Colts, Giants, Patriots..These are the recent teams to win the Superbowl..Out of all of these teams, the only team that was built with speed more than size were the Colts…And the Colts did have the best QB in Peyton Manning, and one of the best offenses starting with Wayne, Harrison, and Dallas Clark. Other than the Colts, all the other teams valued SIZE over speed. The Packers, Saints, Giants, Steelers, and Patriots all had good defenses that were not undersized…
I honestly think we need to change our drafting philosophy..Go for size over undersized speedy players. If we didn’t like undersized players, we might have JPP on our team. JPP was considered raw and more of a project type player but he had a 1st round grade by most teams/analysts..Why not go for a 6’5 280 DE? Instead we go for a 6’1 268 lb DE…It just amazes me of how stubborn the Eagles draft players.
Jai Jarrett is supposed to be a hard hitter, correct? Well isn’t he a little undersized? I mean watched him during the games and he looks like he has the size of a cornerback…Maybe they should convert him to a CB and see if he’s the next Nnamdi…
Yeah Jarret looks smaller than Coleman but is listed as a lb heavier. Offseason in the strength and conditioning program should help him, our players have been noticeably more cut and built coming into training camp the last two years since we changed the guy in charge of that.
Of your list only the Steelers had a better defense then the Eagles this year.
Also Graham is pretty traditional DE size, Babin is 6-3 267, Cole is 6-3 270 and Graham is 6-2 268. The Eagles defense is in no way or shape undersized (also with DRC and NA we got 2 of the tallest CBs in the NFL)
Of all the teams I listed, I wasn’t talking about this year..I’m talking about the year each of those teams won their Championships, they had great defenses that were NOT undersized..Except for the Colts.
Brandon Graham is undersized…Graham is not 6-2, more like 6’1…While his weight isn’t undersized, wingspan is very important in defensive ends. Think about the best pass rushers in the NFL…Jared Allen (6’6), Ware (6’4), JPP (6’5), John Abraham (6,4)…They all have size..Babin isn’t a complete Defensive End. He’s not good against the run and he wouldn’t be nearly as productive without the Wide 9.
Our LB corps is undersized. We have Rolle, Clayton, Jordan who are all 230 lbs OR less…Casey Matthews is a question. He was said to be at 245 but did he maintain the weight throughout the season? If not he’s around 230..Chaney has good weight at 242 but he’s kind of short at 6’0..Our 2 biggest LB are Chaney and Greg Lloyd..If we get Kuechly (which hopefully we do) then we will have a pretty good starting LB corps when it comes to size..
I hope we don’t get Tulloch…The one thing we don’t need is to go after a 5’11 235 LB that want’s 5 mill a yr.
Lofton is someone I doubt we’ll get but has good size. He’s only 6’0 but he has some bulk to him at around 245 I think?
I agree, our cornerbacks are suddenly big corners..DRC and Nnamdi have great size. While Hughes and Hanson are tall guys, they are physical and can press well.
An off topic comment I have is about Asante..I think if we get a great minded DC, we should keep him IF the DC can scheme him to be a complete ball hawk and if AS would take a slight pay cut…
I remember last year vs. the Colts, Asante Samuel told Mikell to switch with him so that Asante was at SS on a obvious passing down…What happened? Asante could completely just be a ball hawk and stare down Peyton and pick him off..If we had a great DC that could scheme him to do things like that on passing downs, why not keep Asante? He could be INT machine.
I doubt we would get a 2nd rd pick for him…Maybe a 3rd but is that really worth it?
If he get’s traded I think we need to get a 2nd for him or a good veteran player…
Of the teams there have won the SB the last few seasons, 3 of em are running 3-4 defenses so comparing size with them is a bit stupid. Both the Giants and Saints aint big defenses or wasnt very good defenses the year they won.
I give you size is important, but in todays NFL speed is better, ofcourse if you can find a guy with size and speed you can take a chance on him (JPP was a boom or bust player, lucky for the Giants he went boom and not bust)
3-4 teams are bigger because they swap out a LB for an extra DL. But they’re also more vulnerable to short passing games.
In today’s NFL, stopping the pass is the first priority, against the run you want to be able to stop it in short yardage (Eagles are one of the best in power situations according to FO), and trade 1st downs for stuffs (get a team in 3rd and long two or three times a drive and force them to convert those plays). That was always JJ’s philosophy, but matters more now. You don’t need great run defense, you just need competent run defense, after the first five games Eagles only allowed 4.0 YPC. Add a better MLB and that problem is solved.
What killed the defense was the inability to stop the pass, especially in the red zone, but also too many big plays allowed. Tighten up the pass defense, which requires speed and coverage skills, not bulk, and this is a top five defense. They already have the pass rush (which is the key to those championship defenses, not size, look at the 2002 Bucs for example), they just need to tighten up in the back seven.
While Hughes and Hanson are tall guys, they aren’t** physical and can press well.
While Hughes and Hanson aren’t***** tall guys, they are physical and can press well. (Ha, I’m messing up today lol)