Bring Me the Head of Fletcher Cox
Posted: February 27th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 93 Comments »Actually, bring all of him. (drool)
Cox is a DT from Mississippi State. He measured in at 6’4, 298 at the Combine. Unofficially, he ran 4.79 in the 40 and had a 10-yard split of 1.63. Those numbers would be good for a DE. For a DT, they are off the friggin’ charts.
Cox is officially now my prime target at pick 15. He pretty much already was, but seeing that level of athleticism just solidifies things.
Bruce Irvin is a 6’3, 245 player from West Virginia. He was a DE there, but projects to LB in the NFL. Unless Jim Washburn is your DL coach. Irvin ran 4.43 in the 40. Good athlete, but not great. Speed is his best asset. Washburn would love a DE like him. I figured Irvin for a 3rd round type player. A strong workout today could boost that. If he is on the board in the 3rd, you wonder if Wash would want him.
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Luke Kuechly will workout later today. Per Jonathan Tamari, the Eagles will meet with him. This isn’t huge news. The Eagles meet with virtually all underclassmen.
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I posted some WR/RB thoughts over at ScoutsNotebook.
Matt Alkire posted a few notes of his own.
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Make sure to keep up with our NFC East compatriots by checking out Jimmy Bama’s site as often as possible. Now that his daughter is a Giants fan it will be interesting to see if his coverage changes.
I agree with you Tommy, would love to see a potential star at DT get drafted. Looks like this draft class has several who fit that mold. What’s your feeling about Cox getting drafted before 15? Which DT works the best in our system, Cox or Brockers?
I’d like to have Keuchly also, maybe we trade our two 2nd’s with NE and pick up Luke at the end of the 1st round? I’m not real excited about the FA LB’s, but would rather have one of them and a potential star than not have the star and just someone solid at MLB.
All you need is a solid, reliable tackler at MLB. There is no need to be a “star” in the Wide-9 scheme at the position – the defensive linemen are the stars of this defense.
The problem last year wasn’t that the Eagles didn’t have a star – they didn’t have anyone even remotely competent. Jamar Chaney can’t tackle to save his life. If they introduce someone who can actually tackle in space and cover relatively well in the flat, this defense has top-3 potential.
They can easily obtain a reliable, solid tackler in free agency this year. That’s all they need.
Look at the teams in the Super Bowl, especially the Giants, – did either one of those teams have stars at the MLB position? No, but you could definitely argue that they had stars at the DL positions.
“Looking” at the teams in the Super Bowl is pseudo-science. Remember, those were two terrible defenses, and we also had stars at the DL position.
I actually agree with you – we don’t need a star at MLB – I just think attempting to glean anything from the Super Bowl contenders is faulty logic that gets overused every year. The only thing you can learn is “win every game in the post season.”
Like I said in an earlier post. I think there’s a good chance Cox is gone by #15. He’s the best DT in this draft. Devon Still plays too high and has a questionable motor, Brockers is a projection based on his measurables and not much else.
I’d say the Panthers at #8 is Cox’s most likely destination, unfortunately. A number of teams will want him, because of his ability to penetrate as a 3 Tech DT or 5 Tech DE. Don’t think he’ll be an Eagle.
I agree.dude will be a beast.no way he gets passed Carolina.not soldbon Lofton.it seems like the eagles are going to over pay for a 2 down LB.hoping LK40 impresses in the drills to justify the pick at 15.he already bulked up….with rm to go…..
There is the possibility that Cox is drafted before #15, but I don’t think he is the unamimous top DT in the draft. There’s also Brookers, Still, Worthy and Poe in the discussion of the best DT in the draft (I’ve consistently seen Brookers as the top), and with Poe’s performance at the combine so far, he has to be moving up draft charts. I think there’s is a good chance anyone of those DTs will be available at #15.
Tommy,
I don’t get how a guy like Sean Spence can only bench 225 12 times. These guys have access to the best trainers in the world. I’m a novice weight lifter and I can do more than 12 reps of 225.
I cannot do 12 reps. I can drink 12 beers.
Sean has a muscular body. Stood next to him in Mobile and he’s not some skinny, underdeveloped wimp. He’s a man. No idea what’s up with 12 reps.
Most LB recruits coming out of high school can do 12 reps. Did he pull a muscle or something?
Humble Brag
Moise Fokou only did 13.
Dontari Poe…6’4, 346. Unofficial 4.87 in the 40.
I can’t put those numbers in context. Would be like Mike Vick throwing for 12 TDs in a game or something like that.
Literally that doesn’t seem possible.
Wow … we need more draft picks!!
Tommy,
I loved your mock draft–with the Eagles taking Cox (who is also having a spectacular combine). But with Poe, Brookers, Cox, Still and Worthy all likely 1st rounders, how would rank them if several of them are available around pick 15?
Tommy, did you get a chance to check Cox out in the skills competition? This kid is too legit to quit.
Skills competition? No. Was that something ESPN put together?
Yeah, I caught it on ESPN 2 yesterday. Man, he’s agile for a 300 pounder… Looks a lot like Gerald McCoy.
Let’s just hope he doesn’t get injured as often.
Unless he gets picked by the Giants, Redskins, or Cowboys
The Poe vs. Cox debates will get interesting. I covet a big DT to pair with our smaller guys (Patterson/Landri/Laws if he returns). I’m fine either way. I think Washburn will drool over both.
We’re going to get a nice new toy!
Reminds me of the Ngata/Bunkley debates. Or the Suh/McCoy debates. Funny how both smaller guys with “quickness” busted. When has the smaller quicker DT been better than the monster? Maybe once with Warren Sapp? I’ll take Poe over Cox anyday. Cox might have size/speed, but seems like little else to me. Halfhearted “chasing guys all over the field” doesn’t do it for me.
RE: Ga Tech WR Stephen Hill & WVa DE Bruce Irvin
I think both of these guys will have “PATRIOTS” next to their names after the draft.
Belichick’s offense needs a deep threat. And a big WR. Hill fills both needs. The Pats have plenty of guys to catch the short and mid-range passes. On the Pats, all Hill needs to do is “go deep”. And using a late 1st rounder on him might be high, but consider the value he brings to that offense — a much bigger version of D-Jax whose deep speed could create even bigger openings for Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez.
Defensively, the Pats need to improve their pass rush. Unless Belichick trades up, neither of the Pats’ 1st-round picks will get them the best pass-rusher in the draft (whoever that is).
But Irvin fits Belichick’s style of adjusting his scheme to exploit the skills of players other teams discard or undervalue. The guy, with his size and speed, sounds like soon-to-be former Colt Robert Mathis — if that speed translates into blowing the corner on OTs.
Fun stuff.
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T-LAW:
Your notes on WRs in SNB is absolutely a gold mine. Thank you.
Quite a few of the DL prospects this year are intriguing fits at the #15 pick: Poe (raw athletic potential), Cox (same), Still (elite production), Ingram (production and potential)…
I would defer to Jim Washburn on this. The Eagles should definitely seek his counsel on the DL to pick at #15. I’m sure he would highly recommend one of the aforementioned players.
The only thing I absolutely do *not* want them to do is to throw “good money after bad” and pick a MLB or OLB with the #15 pick with all of these talented DL available. Neither do I want to see them waste a first round pick on a WR (the position that is notoriously hard to project to the NFL and one that is a luxury on this team even if DeSean leaves in free agency) – there will be plenty of talented WR prospects waiting in the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th rounds this year, as well.
Also, I bet Kuechly runs a slower 40 than Dontari Poe.
You’d be crazy to want to blow a top-15 pick on Kuechly.
I’ll take that bet.
The fact of the matter is, however, that Kuechly is simply a liimited athlete. He projects as nothing more than a “solid’ MLB.
Is that the player you take with a top-15 pick? Of course not. You spend top-15 picks on players with potential to be greater than that. I would not be opposed to taking a Kuechly type of player with a 2nd round pick, but at #15 you need to take advantage of the special talent still on the board.
I think you have come around on this, too, as your recent postings on DL have shown.
You really should look at the facts before you dismiss Luke Kuechly. Limited athlete? The guy benched more than Courtney Upshaw and Michael Brockers. The guy stayed with Miami’s Streeter on a deep route and broke up the pass. While Vontaze Burfict runs away from blockers – Kuechly takes them on, wins most of the battles and makes the stop. He’s the guy at the bottom of the pile. 532 tackles. 102 solo this year. And that’s before you factor in the mental game – which separates him from the rest – rookies and FA – by miles.
PS: Luke Kuechly just clocked a 4.50 forty.
AND a 38in. vertical!
I hope no one gets trampled as we all sprint to pile back on the Kuechly bandwagon.
4.5!…..no way……c’mon if that’s true then at 242 lbs and 4.5 speed…..he’s worthy of 15…..no?
he just ran another one at 4.59
… although it will be really hard to not trample the people desperately fleeing the Burfict bandwagon.
If you actually watch games in which he played, and focus in specifically on him, you’ll see him get manhandled with ease by any offensive lineman that gets his hands on him.
Plus, you’ll see him get juked out of his shoes with regularity. I just don’t see the requisite athletic ability to be a premiere LB in the NFL, a la Patrick Willis or Brian Urlacher. His absolute ceiling is James Laurinitis or Curtis Lofton. And is that player worth the #15 pick?
Again. You are flat out wrong. Most plays he wins the battles against blockers and makes the stop. 532 career tackles… in three years – just chew on that for a few. That isn’t a guy who is manhandled easily. I can show you plays where Dont’a Hightower is wrapped up too – the point is whether he can shed blockers and make stops more than being taken out of plays. Kuechly makes the stop the overwhelming majority of the time.
Do you even pay attention to what you post? You said earlier we don’t need a star at MLB. So, who cares if LK isnt the “premier” talent that a Willis or Urlacher are. According to you, our MLB needs to be “a solid, reliable tackler”. LK fits that bill.
He’s shown today he is way more athletic than you give him credit for. Make up your damn mind about what our MLB needs to be. You look foolish posing contradicting points.
His post isn’t criticizing MLB as a sub par LB. His post is criticizing his LB ability not being worth pick #15. Not agreeing with him, just clarifying as your post doesn’t seem accurate to his remarks.
Luke as a*
You should have put PBR and ribs on this bet.
4.5….wrong again buddy!
Oooops! Burfict, you meant Burfict
I know I’m beating a dead horse here, but this is exactly what I was thinking. Sheridan nailed every point that I was thinking of why RG3 would make sense… Take a look at the article here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20120227_Phil_Sheridan__Don_t_rule_out_Reid_taking_long_view_with_Griffin.html
I’d love to have but it would take too much to get him. It would probably cost us two drafts. A 1st this year along with out 2-2nds plus another 1st next year. I really think we are a contending team and I am willing to pass on him.
The thing here is we have Jackson, and the Rams need a good receiver… Our 1st, Two 2nd’s, and Jackson for the #2 pick..?
Tommy, do you think Sanu’s slow 40 time drops him into the 2nd? If so, do you think the Birds look at him as a slot receiver with their high 2nd? Looks like a young Plax…not great at seperating, but catches everything and out jumps everyone.
Sanu should be a 2nd. Possible he slides to the early 3rd.
I think the Eagles should look at him. Not sure if they will. All WR plans are contingent on what happens with FA/DJax. If we get big in FA, don’t need big guy from the draft as well. Could still take one, but wouldn’t need him.
what about a guy like Kendal Reyes who goes 6’4″, 299, 33.25″ arms, 4.79 40, 36 reps on the bench and a 34.5″ vert. Athlete anyone???
Reyes confuses me. I didn’t appreciate him this year, but upon re-watching some tape he was playing 4-3 NT most of the time. Need to study Senior Bowl practices and more game tape. Talented, but not sure of value.
Tommy – What if Poe and Cox are sitting there at 15? I know Poe projects as a 3-4 NT, but as athletic as he is at his size, Washburn would have to take a hard look at him as a 4-3 NT. Just ask him to control a gap…sounds like he would have no problem doing that.
Poe can play UT or NT. Special talent.
Poe look like Haynesworth kinda a talent.
Control a gap?
He’d BE the gap.
The numbers are intriguing. But what about his play? How does Cox play in run defense and in pass rush situations?
Sign Jones and bring back Landri and Dixon. Our DTs would be Patterson, Jenkins, Cox, Landri, Dixon, Jones.
Our DEs will be Graham, Babin, and Cole with Tapp and Hunt battling it out for the final spot.
Cox is a very good rusher. He’s not a run stuffer. He can get upfield and be disruptive. He would be like a young version of Cullen Jenkins.
DTs – Jenkins, Dixon, Patterson, Jones, Landri, Cox
DEs – Cole, Babin, Graham, Johnson, Hunt
I would like the Eagles to use a 3rd on Cam Johnson, from Virginia. I think he can flourish in Washburns rotation. he can’t play all the time with his medical condition, but ask him to play limited snaps, he could be a very good situational pass rusher.
The term “situational pass rusher” leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of Bryan Smith.
a 2nd/3rd string pass rusher would only pass be on the field for a maximum of 1/3 of the pass rushing snaps (so max 10 snaps per game). We need guys there can go 110% in 2-3 snaps, get of the field and have 2-3 snaps later and Cam Johnson would be perfect for that.
That settles it..draft cox at 15…resign Landri and move him to MLB…….can anybody say..Championship
…and don’t forget bringing back VY as the new eagles spokesman!
If we draft a WR, I will be dismayed. I’d rather use that pick to sign Mike Wallace
Aren’t Nnamdi and DRC bot RCBs? Do you think this is going to be an issue?
DRC moved around with Arizona. He played primarily on the left side when not in the slot last year.
He was also LCB in his rookie year (I remember because he got “beat” on Jacksons TD to take the lead in the 4th quarter)
This draft is so deep with athletic DTs, it would be a waste to take one at 15. This will be the trend for DTs from here on out. More and more athletes at the position each year. Cox did tremendous, no question. But so did Poe. So did Worthy – 4.97 at 308lbs? 1.64 split? 28.5 vert?? Wow. Kendall Reyes – 299 lbs – 4.79 with a 34.5 vert? Mike Martin! 306 lbs, 4.84 with a 1.69 split and a 33.5 vert!!! My point is that we can find amazing – UT or NT talent round 2. If you think Cox or Poe or Worthy has the versatility to play both UT or NT in a wide-9; THEN we have something to talk about. But it will be hard to land better value than Kuechly AND Martin/Thompson/Worthy/Reyes.
PS: Any info as to why Thompson didn’t run?
Yes, you bring up a very interesting point concerning value. It’s something I’ve thought of before. Unless you feel Cox is far ahead of even guys like Coples (assuming you play him as a DT), Andre Branch, etc.; I don’t see the logic in the assessment that you need to draft him at 15.
Poe’s combine performance is eye-popping for someone who weighs 346 lbs. I think you’re looking at the DT class wrong, if you believe Cox, Poe, or Brookers are special athletes you’re not going to wait until the 2nd round for some other guy just so you could draft Kuechly at 15 (who is a good LB, but no one is claiming Kuechly is a special LB).
I am.
T-LAW:
Can you tell us what each of the *events* — besides the 40 and the bench press — tells us about players at particular positions: The 3-cone drill, the 20 yard shuttle, 60 yard shuttle, the vertical, and the broad jump (and any others I missed).
For example, in the vertical: UCal MLB Mychal Kendricks had a 39.5, Kuechley at 38, and Burfict way down at 30.
In the broad jump, DT/DE Fletcher Cox was 103, DT Brocker’s was 105, as was DT Poe.
Anyway, just trying to figure out what the different tests tell us about players at different positions.
Things like the broad jump and vertical jump measure lower body explosion and strength. Things like 3 cone measure your ability to change direction quickly and illustrates body control. Stating a 10 yard split for the 40 also illustrates your short range quickness which is much more apt anyway compared to the 40.
I remember reading a book on linebacking from Lou Tepper who coached 3 different Butkus award winners in college and he claimed that the single most important drill for an LB is the 20 yard shuttle or the “jingle-jangle” as he called it. He said he never had a good LB that did poorly in that drill. And it helped him discover a few walk-ons that went on to be All-Americans.
T-LAW:
I think you’ve commented favorably on Boise State DE Shea McClellin before. A Washburn-type guy in the Vanden Bosh mold.
McClellin ran an unofficial 4.63 40-yard dash. Not as fast as Irvin. But he’s bigger, clearly.
Does McClellin have the explosion to get around the edge. And the strength, like a Trent Cole?
Any more early thoughts on McClellin?
Looks like D. Jackson just resigned with the Browns…
Damn you! Just give me a heartattack, was thinking Desean!!
And it was for 8.5mill/year. I think that will definitelty cross Lofton off to the Eagles as he will probably command a contract higher than that.
Eagles can afford Lofton…questions is will they. With Rolle, and another potential draft pick at SAM, the eagles would only be investing $$$ in their MLB….
Oh I know they can afford him, but they won’t fork out that kinda money. Even with Luke’s great combine, I’d rather bring in Hawthorne and draft Kendricks in the 4th.
Do you think Kendricks will last to the 4th?
Don’t take that seriously:
“Adam Schefter of ESPN reports that it’s a five-year, $42.5 million deal with $19 million in “guaranteed money and roster bonuses.” We’ll decipher that once we get a look at the full deal, which surely will contain protections for the Browns in light of his injury history.”
In other words, it’s mostly roster bonuses, and the last two years are probably fictional. Probably 3 years and $18-21M in “real money.” Not bad, but not $8M a year either.
This draft is suddenly looking much deeper.
While a workout for an individual player can be misleading, when the whole group significantly out performs recent years (they’ve all been working out the last five years or so), you know there is some serious athletic talent out there.
You have to go DL and LB heavy in this draft, you may not see a group as good for a few years.
Franchise QBs are nice, but we’re the Eagles, DEFENSE, BABY.
The EMB has crashed, this suggests that Luke ran well
4.50, tied for 2nd fastest LB. LOL I thought the same thing. Shut EMB down!
And Morton? 😉
No, hes still continuing to post that he has no athleticism haha
Blimey, kuechly just ran a 4.50!
It’s not just Luke, Kendricks ran a 4.41, he wouldn’t be a bad consolation prize.
Though with LBs, I want to see the SS and Cone drills, being fast in a straight line don’t mean much if you can’t move laterally.
Upshaw pussied out, take him off the board!
Cox did not have a good vertical, to me the 10 yard split and vertical are the two most important tests for DTs, followed by the agility drills, the 40 is pretty much meaningless (if your DTs are running 40 yards, you got some serious problems in your back seven).
Beat me to it. Tommy, what are your thoughts now on Kendricks? He’s posting some really solid numbers so far? Wasn’t one of his biggest knocks his speed?
Yeah. The notes here and at the Scout’s Report all said he needed an extra step, but he looked awesome today.
+1
I was thinking the exact same thing. I really can’t see the Browns investing ($8.5m/yr) on Jackson given his injury history.
The bar has been set: D’Qwell Jackson signed for 5 years, $42.5 million.
Will the Eagles open up their pocket book to sign one of the top tier LB available to a similar contract opening up the possibility of signing Cox?
In light of D’Qwell’s crazy contract probably setting the bar for FA LBs like Lofton and Hawthorne and Kuechly’s surprising workout what are the chances of the Eagles signing Fletcher to a 1-2 year deal, which will be cheap in comparison to the other FAs, and still targeting Kuechly in the draft? That way they don’t break the bank on a MLB and still have a good stopgap in case they can’t get Kuechly. If they still can get Kuechly then they play him at SAM for a year, let him learn from one of the best and have him step into the middle year 2?
I just don’t see the Eagles spending close to $8M on a LB. And although it may be tough to pass up on Cox or Poe if they are available there seems to be other emerging DT options that could be there in the 2nd round.
So who is better James Laurinaitis or the player that Luke Kuechly is projected to be?
LK40
After checking NFL.COM/COMBINE for Von Burfict’s numbers, I think he’d have been well served to have a note from his mother saying he had to stay home because he was sick.
This kid is sinking faster than than the Titanic.
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As for Danny Trevethon . . . regardless of his Combine numbers (not bad/not great), he’s just a really good football player who performs better with the helmet on than off.
I do believe the record will show that I was the first person on this blog to focus on Fletcher Cox.