Mock Draft, Eagles Style
Posted: February 16th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 147 Comments »For this week’s PE.com column I did a mock draft for the Eagles. Go look at the picks, but also please read the comments before them. That will explain a few things. I’ll comment on the mock below.
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Albert Haynesworth, aka Big Al, was cut today by the Tampa Bay Bucs. Is there any way the Eagles could have interest?
It is possible because Jim Washburn is a big fan of Al’s. I don’t see it as likely, but you never know. Big Al would be coming here for a minimum salary. I don’t know if he’s been smart with his money, but if not, he might actually play hard if he thinks this is his last chance at making some cash.
The one argument for Big Al is that he’s bounced from team to team in systems that didn’t fit him and/or playing for coaches who don’t have a relationship with him. Washburn and Al are friendly. Big Al is perfect as a 1-gap, attacking DT. He knows this system.
I certainly won’t object if the Eagles want to bring him in. I’ll fess up and say that I am curious to see if he and and Wash could go all Peaches & Herb on us (Reunited and it feels so good). You do have to wonder if Big Al has finally jumped the shark. At some point we’re not talking about current potential anymore, but just chasing past glory. I don’t know if that’s the case with Big Al. Could be. If so, sad end to a strange career.
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Alright.
I’m going to assume you read the column. I’ll now comment on it since there have been quite a few questions.
I had the Eagles spend the top 2 picks on DL. Clearly the D-line is not a major need right now. You can argue that the Eagles had the best DL in football last year. So what gives?
Well, let’s start by talking about needs. For the sake of the mock, I projected us handling MLB and WR in free agency. That filled all the starting roles on the team. The only real possibility is SAM. The Eagles have Akeem Jordan, Moise Fokou, and Jamar Chaney all under contract. Each has started at SAM. This is a position to address, but it isn’t a position of such dire need that you reach for a LB and force him into the lineup. Plus, there is no SAM I think is worth pick 15.
With no obvious needs to be dealt with, I looked at where there was talent. There are some very good DL in the first few rounds. While the Eagles have good players in place, they don’t have an ideal amount of youth. Adding the DL is much like 2002 when the Eagles had the best secondary in the NFL and then spent picks on Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, and Michael Lewis. The team matched talent and future need back then and could do the same this year.
I had the Eagles wait until the 3rd round to address SAM, but that could easily change after we watch LBs work out at the Combine. There might be a player who stands out in Indy and is definitely good value with one of our 2nd’s.
Why no RB? The Eagles have 2 young guys they already like. Seems more likely they’ll add a veteran here.
Why no QB? I’ve addressed this, sort of. Bad QB class as far as fit and value for the Eagles. Why force a pick if he doesn’t make sense?
Someone brought up the point that you don’t know how much the DL would play as rookies. Would Andy want to do that, given the pressure he’ll be under to win? I think Andy would be fine with it. Those DL would be insurance policies for him and the team. How did the pass rush look in 2011 when Trent Cole got hurt? How would the inside pressure have been with no Cullen Jenkins? Adding highly talented, athletic DL would help should those situations arise in 2012.
Enough of my yakking. Let’s boogie. Fire away with comments, criticisms, and questions. Just be gentle. I’m a delicate little cyber flower.
I actually really like the logic behind the position priority. My only gripe is two safeties very late vs. one very early. I know they’ve spent a lot of picks on DBs lately, but they haven’t knocked one out of the park yet.
Also worried about the realistic chances of filling MLB via free agency. Everything I’ve seen has the Lions retaining Tulloch, who I thought would follow Washburn last year. Have you already covered who else you like in free agency? Thoughts on David Hawthorne?
I haven’t covered FA yet. Still doing research. I do like David Hawthorne. Could definitely be a target.
Gotta let the current group at Safety have a chance to show what they can do. Adding a couple of late picks is safe way to challenge them. You can find good Safeties late in the draft. Weird position.
Thanks for addressing my question in this post. I certainly could see the Eagles having a draft similar to your mock. If the right guy is there, I definitely would be in favor of adding a DT early assuming we signed a quality MLB and addressed WR in FA. I should also say that for me, the draft is a bunch of names that I have only read about from guys who study college players, so I can’t honestly say I would take one prospect over another. That being said, just from a position standpoint, I would be a bit disappointed with a DE that early. You’re right that if Cole or Babin go down, it is an issue, but at the same time, we have a great coach on the dline, we had one of the best dlines in the league last year, I want them to focus on seeing what they have with Graham before he gets lost in the mix of another high pick DE, and with the wide 9 and Washburn, I think we can still get productive players later in the draft (again, I say that not knowing the names, but knowing that guys that may be overlooked by some teams may still fit in well with the wide 9).
For me, I would much rather them target a safety, SAM, WIL (I liked what Rolle did as a rookie, but I am in favor of adding talent at LB if it is there), big WR, or possibly a TE if a good fit is there early on at any of those positions. I just think those are areas were a player could make a significant impact on improving the team from last year. At DE, even if the player does come in and earn playing time (which wouldn’t be a huge stretch considering how we rotate dlinemen), for this year, I don’t know that a rookie DE would improve what is already a strength on the team all that much.
Really te? im not knocking you, but i am just curious as to why you said te. i still like celek alot, and harbor is growing on me, and i think we are going to see alot more of him this year, and he might suprise the average fan.
Let me start by saying that I think Celek is a good TE and I love the way he plays and shows toughness when he plays. On top of that, I think Harbor has lived up to his 4th round draft selection. That being said, when I watch a team like the Patriots who use two TEs to have a dominant offense, it makes me realize that there is room to improve at TE. Certainly I am not saying TE should be a top priority move, and as I said above, since I don’t follow college football carefully, I don’t know that there is a prospect who stands out, but even though I like Harbor, I don’t think he is a guy that is beyond challenging or even flat out replacing if the right guy is available.
I also see that TE (or a big, physical slot WR) could be a position that can help balance the speed of our offense. With Jackson, Maclin, McCoy, and even Vick on the offense, having a bigger, more physical skill player in addition to Celek may help create more mismatches, especially in the redzone. In my opinion, the TE position is becoming more and more a dynamic position, so I am all for upgrading the spot.
With that all being said, I should also say that it is certainly possible that Harbor can develop into a dominant 2nd TE. I know Tommy and several other people really do like Harbor. I guess for me though, I don’t know that I believe Harbor can really become dominant or for that matter, ever really challenge Celek. As for Celek, here are where his stats rank among TEs:
Receptions: 11th
Yards: 7th
Yards/G: 8th
TDs: 12th
Statistically, that puts him around 10th among TEs. Football outsiders, if you put stock in their analysis, has him ranked 15th among TEs. So in other words, while he is good, he is certainly not elite. I’m not saying it is easy to find an elite TE, but Celek is not so good that he wouldn’t be challenged if we brought in a quality player.
Of course, if we did bring in a quality TE (or Harbor can develop into a guy you want on the field regularly), I do think there would need to be a slight change in the offensive game plan. Right now, I don’t know that we use 2 TE sets often/effectively enough. AR would have to make that kind of adjustment for this to have any sort of significant value.
Finally, having said all that, I listed TE last and added “potentially” because I see the other positions I listed as more likely/more important needs. Still, if there is a TE prospect available that is a clear BPA and we have filled our more glaring holes (starting WR depending on Jackson and MLB), I don’t think you pass on him simply because like Harbor and Celek.
Brent Celek is my favorite player on the team, and I’m 100% in agreement about potentially looking at drafting a TE. I like the way you think. This is a copycat league, and the TE position is revolutionizing offense. Why WOULDN’T (the smart) teams try to get in on the fun?
Coby Fleener in the second round, please. He and Celek in two TE sets would be lethal. This doesn’t mean Harbor wouldn’t have a role in the offense, it just might be more as a H-Back/TE.
kk, i was half asleep when i read your post. I read wrong, and thought you were saying it was a priority that we upgrade te.
as far as what you replied to me i am in 100% agreement.
WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING!?!?
Juts kidding. Interior o-line and tight end are the only other two areas I would also like to address via the draft, but you only get so many picks.
I’m thinking we might sign a veteran interior backup OL. Kelce, Watkins, Vandervelde are all young.
Kyle Devan is available…
I heard Wendy’s picked him up for a “W” straight up….
A year late with the DT thing! Better late than never. :p
Do you think we will take 10 picks again? I know you don’t do trades, so this is a genuine question. Howie has changed things to the point that there is no reasonable argument against some of the wacky off-scenarios found within TATE.
Love Boykin and what he brings to the return game, if we went for a late round spare, could you put a name to him?
Late round spare? Not sure what that means. Late round return guy?
Maybe a cross pond thing, more likely my lack skill in the English department. 🙂 Way way back in the day when Liverpool (yuk) were THE club in England, in the offseason if they were looking for a striker they’d go out and target a guy, they’d also look to there youth squad and they’d also find a lower league guy. That way they they hoped they would get there guy and if not had 2 spares to fall back on. I have a feeling I have heard the expression elsewhere too. Regardless, what I was really getting at, was a late round slot corner more than a late round return guy.
Interesting.
There is a guy named Mike Harris from Florida State that I think is flying under the radar. He interests me.
I’m still working on CBs. Don’t have a good feel for the late rounders there yet.
The Harris moniker still hurts, I had high hopes for Macho to be a punishing slot corner
yeah im a little surprised they gave up on macho so quickly..
I think they gave him a big chance, he just couldnt cut it. anyone know if he is still playing and for what team?
well yeah they gave him a HUGE chance. i guess they didnt think he deserved that position. just another example of andy forcing people into certain spots that couldnt really do the job…
btw he’s a free agent. he played for the redskins for a few games in 2010 and was signed/cut in the preseason by the steelers last year.
When i saw the name Harris, that was the first thing that came to my mind also. For some reason i had high hopes on him also. I never thought about him as a slot corner. But if you said that back then, i would have liked that idea. lol highnsight…ehhhhhhhhh, sour taste in mouth
Hey Tommy,
This is a realistic mock draft, that would be just OK by me. Realistic because once again no high pick on LB, and OK I’m a big believer in building the trenches so first 2 picks on DL is OK by me. But still got to agree with Iskar there, DL depth is nice but LB talent overall is a major, major need that I would like to see adressed earlier than the 3rd.
As Justice and Dunlap are probably gone, OL depth is probably a bigger need than DL depth to me, and one pick doesn’t seem enough to me.
Don’t forget that the team just added DJ Jones. They apparently like him and think he might be the backup OT this year.
Well, shoot, now I have to go get stitches from banging my head against my desk from this comment. My bill will be in the mail.
(Translation: please do forget that the team just added DJ “Flotsam” Jones. Thank you.)
No one is projecting Jones as a future starter. That’s why I had the team go for an OT in the 4th round. We need a future starter to develop. Jones could be a backup in 2012 while the young guy adapts. Or maybe the young guy is ready to be the top backup right off the bat. Mudd likes Jones and thinks there is something to work with.
He likes a guy he’s probably never laid eyes on, as far as I know, and who is on his NFL third team in a year without even having played in an NFL game. Those guys on occasion can make a roster and even sometimes improve to the point where you might even activate them on game day. But that is really rare.
You will forgive me if I think that it doesn’t matter how much Howard Mudd likes him in February. The team should draft as if he doesn’t exist. DJ Jones is a lottery ticket with long odds and a low payoff even if it does hit. You shouldn’t change a thing about what you do based on him.
Every pick after the first 100 is a lottery ticket, Sam.
The odds of finding a solid starter drop to a little above 10% at that point.
To me Jones is probably as good as most of the OL you’ll draft on the second (to me the second day will always be after the first three rounds) day.
Jones is an example of a guy who fell through the cracks due to the lockout (good reason to be scouring waiver wire players):
Jones, DJ Nebraska 6-5 310 4.92
5/8/88 33 ½ 10 ¼
[4.92 1.75 19 4.83 7.50 26 8’2]
Only started one season, probably undersized for Nebraska, but has similar size and athleticism to a certain LG who bounced around but is now excelling under Howard Mudd.
Does that make him a sure thing?
Of course not.
But I like him a lot better than Reynolds.
You want as many good athletes who fit your scheme as you can find in camp, think the Giants knew Cruz could play in May 2010?
AF: My point was that you don’t approach the offseason one iota differently regardless of whether he is on the roster or not. Yes, it is nice to have guys you think are legit lottery tickets at the bottom of the 90 man roster. Super. The more the better. But you still try to do better whenever you can.
And by the way, the idea that a UDFA who didn’t make any NFL roster until week 17 of the regular season last year has better odds for success than the average day 2 or later draft pick is unsupportable nonsense. The odds of success for an UDFA pool conditional on not making the 53 man roster out of training camp in year one is small.
Maybe this lottery ticket pays off. But it probably won’t. And only the stupidest team on the planet would plan otherwise.
DJ Jones. Christ. Bring me the head of Greg Richmond!
I really like Kuechly, but I agree that we have to wait to see until FA before we initialize “Operation: Get Luke at any cost!”. I’ll take Lofton over Kuechly, but I’m not really feeling any of the other guys, maybe besides London Fletcher and in that case I would get Kuechly anyway since Fletcher has been tackling guys since the players wore leather helmets.
How does David Hawthorne fit in here? I kinda see him as a WILL guy, and for once i don’t want a LB that we’ll try to fit in and develop.
Is lofton a RFA? If so I bet they tender him at the highest amount if a deal can’t get done meaning it will cost a first and third. No way we do that.
I am fairly certain Lofton, Hawethorn and Tulluch are all UFA’s. Also, with the new CBA the highest tender is strictly a 1st. That is the scenario the steelers are facing with Mike Wallce. They may need to tag him to keep him, but their cap situation is a mess. Someone like the Patriots, who have two first round picks, may offer Wallace a huge deal and gladly give up one of those 1st’s.
I don’t think the Pats will invest so much money into one position (WR) after they will have re-signed Welker.
Maybe a team that addresses MLB in FA would let DeSean walk and use their first to go get Wallace?
Tommy – Assuming the Eagles move Asante for another 3rd….I’m curious in addition to Keenan Robinson, who else would you like to see them grab in the 3rd? A TE? A RB?
If I had another 3rd…probably take a TE there and then switch the late LB pick over to the OL.
Is cox a reach at 15? I see a lot of people saying late first/early second. Could we trade back and still get him?
I’m no draft guro so I have no idea, Mel Kiper however had us taking Cox as well in his latest mock draft. I’ll leave it to you to decide whether that’s good or bad
We need to see him at the Combine and find out exact size and just how athletic he is. Could be worth 15. Might be someone to drop back a few picks (20-25 range) and target.
Loved your mock draft Tommy! DT and a DE with the first two picks would be great, I think you’re spot on with your observation on planning for the future. Trent Cole is getting older, and the Eagles need to eventually think about his replacement. The more I researched the more I think DT has the most value for the Eagles 1st round pick.
TL, what are your thoughts on Dontari Poe and Michael Brockers? Poe’s frame and athleticism are intriguing (his height/weight are similar to “Fat” Al Hanyesworth, and Washburn liked AH). Brockers does not have a lot of experience at DT, but is an athlete for his size and he has bulked up extremely well at LSU (I think he entered LSU in the 220 lb range). Depending on the combine results all 3 maybe still on the draft board near the 15th pick. Also, do you think Demario Davis’ Senior Bowl performance has moved him up draft charts to 4th round territory?
I actually really like the LB picks. I don’t think there’s any LB worth taking at 15. If we were picking late in the first round or you project trades, I’d consider Brown because that sore of athleticism is phenomenal and with proper coaching could turn into something very productive.
When you look at this LB class, it’s deep, but not top-end talented; there are no superstars right now. There are a hand-full of guys who will be drafted between the 2nd and 4th rounds that each have their upsides and downsides. I don’t really see the value in addressing it earlier than the 3rd unless there is someone they are absolutely in love with after the combine that you may not want to take a chance on passing in the 2nd. But right now who is that guy??? Lavante David, Sean Spence, Travis Lewis? None of those guys are must have in the 2nd. In fact, I’d take Robinson over all of them. The way I see it, Brown is the only guy that’s worth our 1st or 2nd round picks unless something drastically changes.
I guess my only real critique would be to look a safety a little earlier. I’d like to see them take a stab at someone like Markell Martin in the 4th. They could use Boykin as the returner so the need to fill that with a WR is mitigated a bit. They could then go with upside WRs later in the draft since it just seems more likely to find an unpolished WR that emerges because of athleticism than an unpolished safety who emerges because they need to diagnose plays and be more instinctual in addition to being athletic.
There is no way Zbrown is making passed the first.At worst the Giants take him at 32…the It’s the JPP nightmare all over again….watching another player we could have drafted make it to the probowl.
I agree. Someone will take him in the first, but he’s still the only one I’d consider, at this point, taking in the 1st or with an early 2nd if he fell.
You have that nightmare every year then, there will always be that player you could have taken there develop into a pro bowl player.
So Laws is gone? That’s not a bad thing, I just didn’t know who was moving out. Also, avoiding just about everyone from your “All – Lawlor” team, it appears the Eagles draft neither for need nor BPA. So..yeah that sounds like something the Eagles might do. :p
Hey T
Can Zbrown show u anything at the combine to make you think he is worthy 15 or is your mind pretty much made up?
I think most people’s answer to that will be “I doubt it.” Everyone knows he’s a super athlete. He should time extremely well so unless he’s breaking LB records in the 4.3s and crazy low 6’s in the cones, you’ll see what you already know. His only knock is ability to take on blockers and defend the run. If he shows up a few lbs heavier and closer to 235-240 with the same athleticism and shows good strength, then some teams may start to consider him earlier.
I wouldn’t be upset with Brown at 15 because playing the trade back and guessing game can be dicey if that’s the player you really want. If there are two or three guys you’d be comfortable with, then trading back and seeing what falls to you makes sense. But if he’s your guy and you have him projected to go around 20 and try to get crafty and trade back a few spots to land him and don’t, then you’ve botched your 1st round pick. It may not be my first choice, but it wouldn’t be a bad selection for a highly talented guy in a position of need. My $.02
Good point.I know everyone wants LB addressed in FA..but trust me Tulloch and Lofton are not hitting the FA market and if LK40 is not there at 15 then here we go again with the OL or DL pick and some project at LB in later rounds.This formula has not worked in the past and won’t work in 2012.Just once let’s roll the dice on a LB actually projected to go in the 1st round.he cant tackle..blah..blah..blah..JPP was too raw….like I said a million times..y do we have position coaches….you can’t teach ..talent and speed..but u can hone talent and exploit speed.Just tired of settle for the so called safe pick.where has that gotten us..lately…
I think Lofton has a very good chance to hit FA. The Falcons have some tough FA decisions to make, and most likely they will end up tagging Brent Grimes, their #1 CB. The price tag for #1 CBs has risen faster than the price of healthcare in the U.S., and Grimes will likely get a deal northwards of Asomugha. Add to that the Falcons will need to address the RDE position as well with Jon Abraham a FA (RDE is another high $ position). Here’s PFF’s top 50 FAs and Grimes and Abraham are in their top 5: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/13/pffs-top-50-free-agents/
It will be difficult for Atlanta to sign all of their FAs.
I don’t really think so. His big issue is tackling and that won’t be addressed at the Combine.
I won’t be upset if the Eagles do take him at 15. This is all about tackling. If they think his athleticism is special and can’t be passed up…and that they can teach him to tackle…maybe the Eagles roll the dice. I don’t think Zach is a lock for the 1st round. 4-3 OLBs are not coveted anymore.
I’ll be honest, I would rather not get a guy who we need to teach to tackle. As much as Juan talks about fundamentals, tackling was an enormous issue throughout the defense last year. Chaney was missing tackles consistently. Asante, Nnamdi, and DRC were all among the worst tackling CBs in the league. Our safeties were missing tackles on a regular basis. On top of that, is Castillo really better equipped to teach tackling than any other DC out there? I guess that may be more of a positional coaches job to teach, but our LB coach is also the weakest defensive positional coach on the team.
My thoughts exactly! If we had a defense that was really good tacklers, but need playmakers or a team that just knew how to teach tackling, like the Bears, then id take a chance on Brown.
Then why is Todd Bowles a good hire.I mean unless he’s going to improve tackling by our secondary…then I don’t see the point.Maybe he’s gonna suit up on Sundays and go make the tackles himself.Mudd can teach blocking…Washburn can teach pass rushing but our LB’s coach can’t teach tackling…well u know..what the FO should go get someone who can…hmmm..who’s the LB coach in San Fran…go get that guy or see if he can recommend somebody.If ur slow..but can tackle..how do you tackle J Finley..?..u can’t tackle what you can’t catch..and coaches can’t teach speed
Tommy you and Kiper both mock Fletcher Cox to the Eagles on the same day. For Shame!
Like Silas in The DaVinci Code, I went home and punished myself last night.
Pride you self in that your reasoning is better then his. I mean Kipers reasoning is so wrong on so many levels that I dont understand why people would pay money for his opinion.
If the MLB & WR needs are met in FA, I’m fine with BPA, regardless of position.
Whoa! I’m not seeing Joe Adams’s name anywhere!
Explain yourself!
Love Joe. So tempting to spend a 2nd on him. Wonder if he slides to the 3rd. If so, I couldn’t pass him up.
People keep mentioning drafting Adams and putting him in the slot. What about him makes him right for that position? I’d love to have him spend his rookie year competing with Avant for reps in the slot, while giving him chances to fill in for Desean and Maclin when they have injuries or are occasionally benched. (Looking at you, Desean.) Also, I just love the idea of having Boykin’s jets covering the slot on D, and Adams burning it on O.
Hypothetically speaking…
The Rams are on board at the top of round 3 and Joe Adams is still available.
Could we trade DeSean for that pick? or say that 3rd and a conditional 2013 pick?
I’d love to get Haynesworth in camp and see what happens. Worst-case, we cut him. He’s still capable of dominant performances IF he wants to. He’s not old.
I agree.Dude can eat up blockers which of course would help our LBs.I think he should get an incentive laden contract.If he makes the probowl or tallies 10 sacks..I say give the dude 3 mil right there and then..
Signing Haynesworth in one sense could be a low risk-high reward type move, and from that stand point, I certainly wouldn’t mind it, but I do think we are more likely chasing past glory than anything else if we sign him. He hasn’t really done anything since leaving the Titans, and since then, we have only seen small flashes of quality play mixed in with plenty of bad/lazy play. I guess for me, if Washburn signs off on it and we can sign him for cheap (implying there would be no harm in cutting him after TC or any time in the season if we choose to), I would be fine with the move. If we don’t sign him and go in a different direction, I would be equally fine though.
Agree, but I would actually say that we have not seen any flashes of quality play from Haynesworth. What we have seen is a player who has “checked out.” Look at what got him cut from New England. He is likely the epitome of the professional athlete who losses all motivation after signing the big pay day contract.
I don’t know that we saw anything this year, but Tommy put up a post last offseason talking about some moments where Haynesworth showed what he could do if he was motivated. That was what I was referring to. In general though, I fully agree with you. In all honesty, he’s not the kind of player I would want on my team, but if Washburn is signing off on it, I would not be upset with the move as long as there is no sense that we need to keep him or play him if he doesn’t play well.
One FA to keep an eye on is Jason Jones. Jones (25 yrs old) was drafted in the 2nd round by the Titans in ’08. Played DT for the Titans under Washburn, but was switched to DE this past season under Munchak and was not as effective. Jones is a Washburn type of player, BIG (6’5″, 280 lbs). I liked him coming out of Central Michigan. If the Eagles were looking for a FA DL to add, I would take have him over Fat Albert, but he would likely cost more than Haynesworth.
Tommy,
How do you like Dan Connoly of the Patriots as the veteran O-line depth?
Dan might be a good fit, but he’s started 24 games in the last 2 years and might expect to be a starter.
Great draft and reasoning on PE.com. I liked your picture too, it took me a second to realize it wasn’t one of the DL you were talking about. That said I do think the Eagles need to and will draft a WR highly. Even if they trade Jackson and sign a high profile replacement and sign Plax for the red zone they need depth long term since we can’t count on Cooper and Avant is getting older and is probably over rated by Eagles fans. The draft is deep at WR and DL so you can probably get some great players in those areas in the second and third rounds. They could draft a linebacker for need early but other than that they are in a position to pick the best available which should lead again to DL and WR.
I’d like to see WR addressed much earlier than the 4th. I also think a developmental QB should be drafted in the first three rounds. I have both as somewhat priority positions, but I know I’m in the minority on that argument….
I would just like to state – the Giants won the SB with a bunch of scrubs at LB (don’t give me Michael Boley). I got no issues with adding to the DL – if we’re getting pass rushers. I have no issues with upgrading the secondary.
I just feel this team only has three real threats on offense….
Jeremy Maclin
LeSean McCoy
DeSean Jackson
Only one of those – does a defense have to really account for every play. I mean you pretty much have to leave a safety deep on DeSean. I’d like to see more – legit threats – guys who can go 80 yards in a heart beat – added. Riley Cooper, Jason Avant – don’t fit this mold. Brent Celek – whom I love – isn’t a Jimmy Graham at TE. And while Mike Vick can out run a D – pretty sure that’s not something we want to see on a regular basis.
I for one will be disappointed if they wait until the 4th to address our teams lack of speed past DeSean and Maclin at the WR spot.
I wouldn’t mind them adding speed at TE, but at WR, I would much rather have a big, physical WR who can play the slot than another speed guy. I think we have one of the faster offenses in the league with Jackson, Maclin, McCoy, and Vick. Our oline is even fast in a comparative sense. The only two places you can really add speed is with our 3rd WR and TE, but I think we need to have something a little different from Maclin and Jackson in our 3rd WR, not more of the same. At TE, I certainly like Celek a lot, but if there is a quality TE available with more athleticism, I would gladly take him. That being said, having your entire offense just be speed guys is not ideal in my opinion. Speed is very important, but you need to have some physicality to balance it.
The Giants only have 2 threats on offense…Nicks and Cruz. And Nicks isn’t a speed threat.
This offseason taught us that speed is nice, but big, tough, physical receivers are every bit as important, if not more. If the Eagles bring back DeSean, I’d switch my pick and go for a bigger guy in the draft. If he walks and they add a bigger WR, then going with a guy like Hilton is the way to go.
I also think you need to understand that talent at WR these days no longer means 1st round picks. The amount of passing in HS and CFB has changed the WR position. You can find impact players all over. Doug Baldwin was a UDFA rookie for Seattle and played lights out.
The Eagles don’t need a savior at WR. They have a good foundation in place. Adding good players to that foundation is just fine.
I love Avant but I definitely believe we could use a Slot WR upgrade.If Desean is gone, sign a bigger WR, Draft a Slot(if he can return kicks even better) WR, bump Avant to 4th WR, cut Cooper/Hall, 5th WR TBD
Size = Speed
and
Size = Size
The converse is not true
Speed = Speed
but
Speed does not equal Size
Maybe I am missing something. How does size equal speed?
Within certain limits obviously… but size is just as good as speed on most deep balls. Given the “big” guy has to have reasonable speed, but the ability to go up and get a pass down field is equal in my opinion to the ability to get separation.
Conversely, the benefit of having a big target in the red zone can’t really be matched by the abilities of a small speedster.
So my belief now has shifted to where I believe a tall reasonably fast WR is much more valuable to the team overall than a small speed based WR.
OK, I was missing something. Now I understand what you were implying in your previous comment.
I agree with you for the most part, but I do think speed also has value that size can’t provide. If you watch how some defenses play us, they keep their safeties WAY off the ball to make sure Jackson doesn’t beat them over the top. While that may be effective against Jackson, it does help out the offense in other places. It opens bigger holes in the defense underneath and it takes the safeties that much longer to get to the ball carrier on a run. That type of defense only happens with elite speed. That being said, I think having a guy with that type of speed and a guy across from him with a bigger build that can take advantage of the underneath stuff or get the jump balls on the deep throws does present significant matchup problems.
Redskins were doing that in 2006 when McNabb was throwing deep to Brown (funny, Stallworth didn’t have a single catch that traveled 30 yards in the air that year).
People exaggerate how far teams play their safeties off for DeSean, a number of teams mixed up single coverage on him, if you have a good CB who can get his hands on DeSean, it’s all over.
And teams play safeties deeper against any team with a strong armed QB and a legitimate deep threat, DeSean might get an extra step, but trust me, teams will be dropping safeties against Maclin if DeSean leaves. A 6’1 WR at 4.45 is still a threat to take it to the house (look at Jennings on GB), so is a 6’3 WR with 4.53 speed (taller receivers need less separation on deep throws b/c they have high point over the CB).
My point isn’t that a bigger WR can’t be a deep threat. I fully agree with you that they can. But the 6’3 WR with 4.53 speed is going to allow more freedom for a safety to come up closer to the line than a 4.3 WR would. Also, I’m not saying that speed is more important than size at all. Personally, I hope they bring in some more size to compliment Jackson and Maclin. That being said, I just think speed provides more value than MAC’s post implied and it is not as simple as replacing speed with size.
How many yards did Cooper average per catch?
Cooper has the size/speed combo to be a legitimate deep threat. His problem is consistency, and some of that is just getting more reps, he only started one year in college b/c he played baseball.
Nicks ran 4.51 at 6’1 212 lbs
Cooper [4.53 1.54 4.15 6.73 33 9’6] at 6’3 222 lbs
Harbor [4.64 1.64 30 4.37 7.12 40 10’0] at 6’3 252 lbs
Both Cooper and Harbor are more than fast enough for their size.
What they lack is the ultra quick slot receiver who can get open quickly and make plays in the open field.
Speed is overrated, teams took out DeSean by bringing pressure on Vick, even with DeSean’s speed, it takes over 4 seconds for him to get 30 yards downfield (4.35 with no pads isn’t the same as running in pads with defenders trying to jam you).
Burress was a big play threat running a 4.6 b/c he won “ties” with CBs (problem now is he runs more like 4.75, or similar to Celek but 30 lbs lighter).
I look at the top “big” WR’s and feel like they are at their best with accurate passers. These guys don’t get the quick seperation, and I don’t trust Vick with a small window – maybe that’s a mistake I’m making.
We’ve only had 1 “big” WR that was successful in 12 years under Reid. Hell only 1 that was remotely successful…none even with Pinkston/Thrash success other than TO.
I’m all about speed. I like the way the Steelers offense is run at times. I like the ideaof having blazzers….
1st Round (No. 15 overall) – DT Fletcher Cox, Mississippi State
I can see it, of the six top DTs, I think Cox and Brockers are the best fits, over Still, Poe and Worthy. Cox doesn’t turn 22 until December, so he probably isn’t physically mature yet, so there’s some upside left. Though I could also see them trading down and getting Cox in the 20s, other teams won’t value him as highly (not as physical as the other DT prospects) and picking up someone like Reyes or Wolfe later on. Lot of good DT choices in this draft for the wide 9.
2nd Round (No. 46 overall) – DE Chandler Jones, Syracuse
I question this one, 10 sacks in 32 starts, to me his frame shouts 4-3 LDE/3-4 DE when he grows up and hits 280-285, much like VA. I think there are too many guys who are better wide 9 fits, Curry, Perry, Mercilus, Branch, Bequette later on. Chandler is active and gets lots of tackles, but that makes him a more conventional DE who controls the edge and makes plays.
2nd Round (No. 51 overall) – CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia
He’s a good fit, nickel CB and STs.
3rd Round (No. 77 overall) – LB Keenan Robinson, Texas
Needs mean pills, but has the body. Though I’d look at McClellin, also think if Davis has a good combine he’ll climb into the 3rd round, teams are more willing to take small college guys higher if they have “it,” and from all reports he does.
4th Round – WR T.Y. Hilton, Florida International
If you take Boykin, I’m not sure Hilton is a great choice, might prefer Wylie. Though depending how they run (break 4.4) they may both be off the board at this point. Maybe this is where you go big at WR.
4th Round – OT Nate Potter, Boise State
Sounds right
5th Round – LB Demario Davis, Arkansas State
Doubt he’ll be on the board at this point.
6th Round – S Jerron McMillian, Maine
Why not? I think the talent really falls off by the 6th round anyway.
6th Round – WR B.J. Cunningham, Michigan State
Hands are too small for a guy who won’t get a lot of separation. You want someone with velcro hands for this role. I don’t see a lot of upside, at this point I’m drafting athletic talent over polished college production. A guy I’d look at is Greg Childs, if he shows he’s healthy. Though there isn’t much that looks interesting at this point.
6th Round – S Sean Richardson, Vanderbilt
Can he bulk up to play LB?
Richardson doesn’t play like a LB. I’d project him to stay at SS.
Chandler Jones can be a really good DE in any system. Strong enough to beat blockers with power. Athletic enough to fly off the edge. Guys his size with his kind of athleticism are very intriguing. I love Vinny Curry, but finding 6’3, 265 DEs isn’t hard. They exist in every draft. Curry is the better player right now. Jones has the dynamic ceiling.
And if JPP have taught me anything, it is that I’m willing to take a flyer on a physical freak.
Let’s see how he works out.
Problem with juniors is they’re often young (don’t have a birth date for Jones) so you’re projecting their bodies 3 years down the road, Jones could easily fill out and slow down and be a prototype LDE (which would make him a DT in the wide 9).
On the other hand, if Cox adds 10 lbs he shouldn’t slow down much, huge difference going from 265 lbs to 275-280, v 295 lbs to 305-310. Especially playing outside in the wide 9 where quickness & speed are vital, as against inside where first step explosion (less likely to be impacted) is key.
I like the Jones mock pick. Right now I have Jones with a 2nd round grade, so I agree with TL’s draft projection of him. I love Whitney Mercilus, but I think he will go in the 1st round, Curry and Perry are tweeners and might go as 3-4 OLBs.
I’d like to see Jordan White in the fourth round WR spot. Big, fairly fast, All American. I know he comps pretty similarly to Avant but I watched him in the bowl game and he downright is a football player.
I don’t like this mock…
I love it
Football has changed, and I love the way this mock reflects that. Let’s be serious here fellas, in this “new age” football OLine are allowed to do pretty damn close to whatever they want to the Dline to prevent sacks. I don’t know how many times I was frustrated last season by watching Olinemen grab our Dline and tackle them to the ground. We need a stable of relentless, mean, physically gifted athletes to mercilessly pound the opposing Oline in the ground.
AND we need pressure up the middle to disrupt the flow of elite quarterbacks.
Keenan Robinson would be the first player from the UT Longhorns drafted by Andy Reid. I will believe it when I see it.
They wanted Aaron Ross the year he came out, but the Giants got him first. Not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.
Even if that’s true, they haven’t picked up a player in *any round* in Reid’s 13 drafts from the school which, last I heard, is one of the top five football factories in college football.
I have to believe that this is a conscious bias against how Texas develops its players. Whether it is founded or reasonable, I don’t know; I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a strong basis for it. But it seems to exist.
Hey, they at least signed Vince Young. So they’re not completely bias, am I right?!
Maybe, or just a coincidence.
Texas hasn’t been producing good players the last few years in large numbers (that will change the next few years as their great recruting classes mature).
Sometimes it’s how the draft falls, I think they might have been interested in Sam Acho. On the other hand, Texas DBs have been very inconsistent, so maybe they shy away from them.
The Texas bias is very real in NFL scouting communities. View the athletes as sheltered and afraid to work. Mack creates a bubble down there and the information shared with NFL scouts and coaches is slanted. Heard it first hand. I would have to think Reid avoids them due to this. Where there’s smoke there’s fire.
Think the country club has closed its doors.
Brown went out and got two top young coordinators as well as bringing in Major Applegate (the anti-VJ), something about how losing tends to get people to reevaluate.
May take a couple years to filter through, but along with the prima donnas, Texas has had its share of workers, like the Acho brothers, Crowder, McCoy and Shipley, etc.
Just avoid the overhyped prospects, like Tommy points out, they tend to let it go to their heads. Though in Ricky Williams’ case, it had more to do with a different drummer (and mahi wowie) than anything else.
Major Applewhite.
Although Applegate is a pretty cool sounding name for a fictional doctor or senator.
The dangers of multi-tasking.
You start mixing weird things in your head.
RE: Applegate
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=b3T&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1600&bih=835&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=xD7NlpE6rbo0KM:&imgrefurl=http://people.zap2it.com/p/christina-applegate/49&docid=g9JqqFMeZsrdrM&imgurl=http://images.zap2it.com/images/celeb-49/christina-applegate-1.jpg&w=540&h=720&ei=GGw9T6GvHIK3rAeBhrDfBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=441&vpy=157&dur=2327&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=120&ty=120&sig=105918147061950335466&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=109&start=0&ndsp=40&ved=0CFMQrQMwAg
There could be some Texas bias. I’ve never heard of the Eagles having any issues with them. Mack Brown does have a reputation for running somewhat of a country club atmosphere down there. And some guys have had character issues, legal and otherwise.
I’m not a big fan of Texas prospects in general, but I do like some of the grinders they have had: Aaron Williams, Roy Miller, Aaron Ross, Justin Blalock.
The elite types (Roy Williams, VY, Michael Huff, Earl Thomas) and their overrated big DL (Rod Wright, Frank Okam for example) scare me.
Keenan Robinson doesn’t really fit either group. He’s maybe a bit of an underachiever, but not so bad you are completely down on him.
Maycock says Burfict can look “really good” making highlight-reel hits but “the other major percentage of the time, his instincts aren’t good, he gets enveloped by big bodies” and runs around blocks. “For a big, strong guy he’s not as strong at the point of attack as I thought he would be.”
Sounds like he fits the Eagle’s LB mold perfectly. Why not grab him?
where’s a good facepalming icon when i need one?
Here?
http://i.imgur.com/Iz50p.jpg
Thanks!
Tommy
This type of logic is why the Eagles are never going to win anything.
Who cares if we address “holes” with FA. You dont need to waste picks on the DL (one of our strengths). Start addressing areas of this team that never get addressed (with HIGH DRAFT PICKS)! and on top of that, get skilled players no matter if you have players playing there or not.
For example, NE took 2 tight ends that the Eagles could have drafted that would have been an upgrade to what we have. So what we have someone playing there? GET THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE BOARD. Go head and look at previous drafts and see the skilled pro bowl players the Eagles missed “because they didnt need that position at the time”
And sure if you can get a sure fire DL stud then go for it but I havent seen the Eagles get any studs in defense in a very long time.
And the type of DL players the Eagles like to take never amount to much. Lets see if Graham shows us anything this year or hes another bust.
Please and no more players with “Eagle potential”. Ive been waiting years for “their’ players to step forward and be able to play.
Agreed..150%….with you
Gronkowski was an big injury risk, and not a position of need.
Hernandez is a better receiver than Harbor, not nearly as good of a blocker. Given he’d be the 5th option in this offense, Harbor’s blocking has more value (and Harbor is no slouch as a receiver, put him on NE and he’d have 50-60 catches a year).
I dont agree with you. We seem to be cursed to “overvalue” our players. I hope Im wrong but Clay Harbour was always be a bum. I dont think we will mention his name with the “elite” TEs of our game today or yesteryear.
Drafting the best skilled players in each draft is what we should be doing. Trade up get the best players.
And of course the Eagles should get better at utilizing what they do have and making each player individually succeed to win games.
Why is Harbor a “bum.”
4th rd pick from a small college, worked hard to improve his blocking to where it’s above average for a TE, has above average speed (4.64), he’s a good receiver (converted from WR to TE in college).
He doesn’t catch a lot of balls because he doesn’t get thrown a lot of balls. 19 throws all season,
Hernandez had 113 throws in 2011, but he’s the 3rd option in that offense, Harbor is the 5th or 6th option in his offense (only plays the two TE set).
Who cares where he is from?
Lets just get players in here that can play and that we can use.
Is it our fault that the Eagles draft players they dont utilize properly? Is it our fault we either have a system in place and/or QBs that dont throw to these players?
Everyone knows both NE Tightends plus that tight end we missed in New Orleans run circles around our guys.
We are cursed to be overly loyal to our players and coaches.
All im asking for is results not what if scenarios on each of our players.
Just wiki the NFL drafts for the last few years and see how time and time again we miss players or times we just should have “biten the bullet” and moved up in the draft (done whatever it takes) to get a few really good skilled players for this team. Drafting 13 mediocre guys is worse than drafting 3 studs cause we moved up in the draft. We dont need fillers we can get those guys off the street and in FA.
Hindsight is 20/20.
I wanted Graham, sometimes you miss.
But Harbor is EXACTLY what you want in the 4th round, a solid role player who could step up and start if needed.
Did you see those wham blocks he was putting on Ware in the Dallas game to open up holes for McCoy? Or do you just watch the “star” and ignore all his teammates?
Eagles have averaged in the top 5 of points scored and yards gained since 2008, despite rebuilding the OL and going through 3 different QBs. Can’t ask much more than that. It’s the defense they need to shore up.
Austinfan I understand completely on what you are saying but we can get “a blocking TE off the street or cheaply somewhere” We do not have to keep drafting role players.
I was totally in! last years draft believing every bit of hype the Eagles were feeding us about each of these players and why is it when its all over I am left wanting and admiring other team’s draft picks and “holding out hope” that one of our guys “will catch fire” and be the ultimate player. (like im tired of hearing of our LBs and how this is going to be the year chaney or some other guy takes off etc)
We need skill players. We need to be agressive and stop hoarding picks and move and get players that everyone knows are good and not such a reach every year. We need to stop “trying to find value” in the lower rounds thinking we will get lucky some how. And start making sound picks even if we dont need someone at that position.
I want to see a total draft philosopy change this year and into the future but Im kinda knowing with those in charge thats not going to happen …
hoping we somehow get lucky with how we do things
We HAVE plenty of skill people, the problem has been execution, not talent, and a lot of that has to do with so many changes at QB and OL the last few years. We may end up switching out DeSean for Meachum and drafting another WR, but moving the ball and scoring points has not been a problem, we did a better job against the Giant defense than the Patriots the last few years, for example.
Harbor is a lot more than a blocking TE, he’s a legitimate receiving TE who’s become a solid blocking TE, he could start for a dozen NFL teams (Arizona would kill to have a TE like him). That’s called depth.
You look for value all through the draft. They tried with Graham, he was the top ranked DE, if he doesn’t blow out his knee he’s probably a double digit sack guy in the wide 9.
There’s no magic formula, for all the chest pumping about the great Giant FO, Eagles have won more games than the Giants the last three years.
I love the Eagles. Truly I do. But we are the worst franchise historically in the NFC East. We have zero trophies. What we do doesnt make sense in comparison to the other teams. We are not a “great” franchise and yes there are worse out there. But we need to reach a level where we are making compentant picks that make a difference on game day. The Clay Harbors of the world arent going to bring us a super bowl. We all love Westbrook right? Do we go and say Dion Lewis was such a great pick and compare him to BW no we dont. Cause Westbrook was special we all knew it. I dont care how they do it but get better players in here and winning a Super Bowl is a necessity before I give this Eagle franchise any credit for what they try to do.
You know that the NFC East is the most succesfull division in all of football in the Super Bowl era?
The division have appeared in 20 out of 46 SBs and have won 12 of em
Yea doesnt that hurt.
It would be nice to be a part of that heritage.
What we have here is the NFL version of the Keystone Cops who yes are trying but never seem to get it right.
As I always say, its like the Eagles think they know so much more than everybody else — “their secret plan to win it all” but in reality they usually have no idea what they are doing, what players are actually good and how to make it all come together and be a Super Bowl winning franchise.
And the hard part is — they never seem to learn and correct themselves.
The Phillies were once like that — then they went out and brought in a winning (done it before) experienced GM (Pat Gillick) that put his plan in motion and now the Phillies at least won one world series (with this particular team) and have been to one other one (so far) and are considered a favored franchise these days.
Maybe we need to hire someone like Bill Parcells to run this team. Everywhere he went (and was allowed to do what he wanted), he made winners.
I think Harbor is more athletic then people think. I think the Eagles underutilize him. I really think he could be just like Aaron Hernandez. It just took Vick 12 games last year to learn how to throw the ball to Celek….maybe this year he try’s harbor!?!?
I hope you are right. I miss DMac he always threw to our TEs no matter how good or poor they were.
Your logic doesn’t make sense.
1. Don’t waste picks on the DL because it’s one of our strengths. In other words, draft for need, not BPA.
2. So what if we have someone playing at a position, draft BPA.
So, don’t draft BPA because it’s a strength, but do draft BPA because NE did it.
And I love that Tommy’s mock draft is yet another example of why the Eagles will never win. I think, sir, you need some anger management classes. Reminds me of the time I got mad because Madden was playing itself in demo mode, and the Eagles were losing, and I started yelling at the TV, “Here we go again! Typical!” That’s the point where I realized that frustration had overcome common sense. I hope you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, too.
I dont think its anger management I need maybe a drug or a beer or something to help me get over the fact that the Giants just won another Super bowl compared to the zero we have. It gets fustrating hearing all the “hype” the Eagles believe in when it comes to their players and then ending up “missing the mark” again. My point is as I have continually been saying: we have to stop playing for the future and play for next season for a change. It be nice to win NEXT YEAR and not have DL guys on the roster that we cant use for the next 2 seasons. A roster full of good lbs cant hurt this franchise. IF they screw it up somehow someone will be waiting in the wings to try and play and if they have talent they will contribute somehow.
We do not have a set defense and we shouldnt be drafting for tomorrow when we have needs today.
And again saying that we should draft the best available player no matter what position he plays. A talented player at any position is better than a bum at a position we have need. (in other words dont waste the pick)
I think your analysis is off. Yes the Eagles DL was productive this season, but both starting DEs are over 30, and Graham had microfacture surgery so where he will be at next season is somewhat of a question mark. Since Washburn was retained on the staff, I think the DL the Eagles go after will fit the mold of what he likes–6’4″+ (not the small fastballs Reid & Co. liked before). A big DT (like Cox) that can get into the backfield would improve the Eagles defense tremendously (run and pass defense).
And look at NE. Yes they took two TEs, but the Patriots don’t have any good DL players (except a healthy Wilfrock) and lack a pass rush.
I think Patriots was stupid to get rid of Seymour, there defense have been crap ever since.
I think age with the Eagles is a bit overrated. We always have addressed the DL with FA/trade in the Eagle era especially lately (since we are unable to seriously evaluate defensive talent).
We need to start playing for the current season.
We have no success in winning a Super Bowl. That needs to change and soon.
How many more years are we going to wait “for things to come together”?
T Cole (and other aging vets) could be gone when the “new” guys that we draft might be ready to play and contribute.
Look at Dawk: he could have won here but now the window is gone and now he might retire. The window in the NFL is short. We need to play for today.
In one sentence you say the Eagles should avoid drafting a position that is already a strength. In another sentence you say we should draft at a position where we’ve already got a good starter in place.
I’m confused. Or maybe you are confused. You’re saying draft the BPA, but don’t draft the BPA.
I am not confused. Number one, I am tired of the Eagles projecting themselves into the future when they need good skilled players today. They should be looking to make THIS YEARS team competitive not replacing babin cole or the like 2 years fron now. WITH THE EXCEPTION that someone like suh or pierre paul come along that can contribute in some capacity RIGHT AWAY effectively then go head draft for the DL unless there are better skilled players elsewhere you could use and not the typical Eagles wishful thinking “projects” that we will release in a year or 2 after they are drafted.
Number 2, how about surrendering draft picks and future draft picks for higher draft players. I think if we traded for the opportunity to draft Berry — who everyone knew was special instead of stocking up picks so we can draft role players / noone would ne complaining.
The more I think about it, the more I like the Cox pick.
It has been said a million times, the NFL is a copycat league. The Giants won the superbowl with a very good and deep defensive line, a hot QB, and a bit of good luck(turnovers, great plays, ect.)
You can control the latter two, but you can control the first reason: a deep and talented defensive line. That has been the Giants MO for a long time after the LT, Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks years. The Giants just keep getting after the QB. They can wear a offensive line down in a close game.
Sackwise, the Eagles Dline was very good but the inability to get consistent penetration on run plays which exposed our LBs. Hence our LBs did not get the job done. (This has been explained inside and out by Tommy in multiple articles)
The Eagles have done a poor job drafting LBs in the AR era. They do not take LBs in the first round. I would be shocked if this was the year they broke that pattern.
Like it or not DE or DT makes the most sense need and valuewise unless a great prospect falls.
You are wrong about the Eagles dline and the run game, the Eagles had one of the best dlines against the run, the problem was when they ball carrier got past the dline, the LBs/Safeties couldnt tackle
Tommy,
Was just thinking over the draft (which i am sure to do a million more times before it actually happens) and the stipulations you put on this mock. If we grab a starting MLB in FA and either retain Desean or sign someone capable of coming in and starting for us, what would you think of Tannehill at 15? It makes more and more sense to me the more i think it over. He could be a project in terms of refining his mechanics and getting used to reading defenses, but we have Vick for at least this year and, from what i hear, he has a buyout option for 2013. If we do address those 2 spots in FA and Tannehill is still on the board, it might well be something that the FO has to consider. With MLB and WR taken care of, there are not many other positions that i would see as a hole above our backup QB spot. And i really like the Keenan Robinson pick… i think he could be our starting SAM next year (filling one of the holes that i would actually place value on over our BU QB…)
Thoughts? Time’s yours.
I don’t know if the Eagles like Tannehill or not. He’s raw as a QB, but the good part would be that he could sit behind Vick for 2 years. The flip side is that I don’t think he’s worth pick 15 right now. I don’t blame a team that “needs” a QB for reaching for him. We aren’t in that category so I’d pass.
Good Keenan Robinson would definitely start. Bad Keenan would frustrate us. Which guy would we get?
Not that you asked, but I like Tannehill a lot. I think the talk about him being a WR playing QB is overblown. He was recruited as a QB, and switched out of team need. He spins a clean football outside the numbers. He looked great when he was throwing to Swope, and not so good when he was hitting Jeff Fuller in his hands and having it bounce off to defenders. He’s raw, but has probably got as much experience, with a better college resume, than Mark Sanchez. Better arm than him, though, and obviously better wheels. I think he can develop into a pretty good starter in a couple years, and help a team right away with his ability to pick up yards with his feet.
I like the Hayensworth siging….low risk high reward. Washburn can get something out of him. Could you imagine short-yardage situtations going Patterson/Dixon in the middle and Jenkins/Hayensworth at DE? Tough D line to run against….
I think we’ll strongly consider Bobby Wagner in the 2nd vs. Keenan in the 3rd for SAM because I think Wagner will be ready to go from Day 1 whereas Keenan has the right body, is intellegent and probably a year away from starting. I think Wagner’s a bit of a reach at 51 so maybe we drop back a few spots. I also think we’ll pick a DL in our first 3 picks. Would Crick be a good fit? Would he last till 46? He has the versatility to play either DT or DE which would be appealing. I do think Luke will be sitting there at 15 and if we address MLB in free agency, he could be a SAM target – we all know how the Eagles like to draft a LB and then change his job…and change his job, and just for good measure, change it again. I also was thinking Nate Potter in the 4th. I think that’s about the right round to find an OL. I like Boykin a lot so maybe if we project Luke at SAM and have already addressed MLB in free agency, I could certainly see BB at 51.
I think Washburn could love Jared Crick. Would make a lot of sense in the 2nd round if we go elsewhere in the 1st.
Does Kam Wimbley play SAM or Will? Rotoworld is saying he may get cut because he won’t take a pay cut to stay in OAK, set to earn $11 million. That’s obviously crazy amount but could he be of some interest in FA and then draft Luke?
SAM. Huge guy for LB. Good pass rusher. Not sure how good he is as a pure LB.
T-LAW:
You’re a damned Philadelphia treasure.
Hope you find that one door ajar to get you to the show.
Thanks for all you do . . . you make our days much better.
Can’t hate a mock that treasures passrushers. Cox is a good 1st overall pick, so I’ll leave that. I pretty much agree, with the needs: 2 DL, 2 LB, 1 CB, 1 OL, 1 WR, below is my top choice at the position, along with other guys I’d take at the slot, depending on whom was available & whom I’d already drafted (like, I’m not going to take Hightower in the 2nd, McClellin in the 3rd, Kendricks in the 4th and Kaddu in the 5th: 2 LB’s max, hopefully a SAM and a MLB)
2nd (46) D. Hightower, LB – I have a feeling he freefalls a little. Strikes me a bit like Rey Maualuaga, huge bullying MLB that maybe only projects to 2 downs in the NFL right away. I think he could play SAM for us.
Other guys I’d take at this pick: Brandon Boykin, CB, Chandler Jones, DE, Michael Floyd, WR, Johnathan Martin, OT.
2nd (51) Jamell Fleming, CB. Tough player, good cover guy and pretty solid tackler. Would project to the slot, and has upside to start on the outside down the road if DRC struggles this year. Obviously, the same is true for Boykin, but Boykin has the added dimension of Return ability.
Others: Bruce Irvin DE (yes, not a LB, I think he could be an ultra productive situational passrusher in the wide 9, like maybe 10-12 sacks per year), Jared Crick, DL, Alfonzo Dennard, CB.
3rd – Stephen Hill, WR – Tough, athletic and pretty good hands. Good leaper to get the ball at the highest point and decent RAC ability. Needs to work on concentration, but not a “body catcher” would be a viable upgrade to the redzone package. I’m not sure why this guy isn’t more highly regarded, honestly. Put this kid in an NFL weight room and get 15 pounds on his frame and you might have a guy similar to B. Marshall. Already plays bigger than UNC’s D. Jones, who is 225.
Others: Shea McClellin, DE->LB. Casey Heyward, CB, Jayron Hosley, CB, Joe Adams, WR, Marvin Jones, WR.
4th – M. Kendricks, LB – I hope everyone but the Eagles think this guy is a step too slow and and inch too short. He’s a football player, great instincts and plays like his hair is on fire. Versatile and tough. Playmaker and consistent performer, not just sizzle. Can be the MLB of the future if they sign a guy like Fletcher as a stopgap, and can push Rolle on the weakside right now.
Others: Brian Quick, WR, Malik Jackson, DT/DE, Andrew Datko, T. Antonio Allen, S.
5th – Mitchell Schwartz OL – versatile OL who can backup inside right away and possibly develop into a starting T later. Reminds me of Herremans in that aspect–and supposedly his arms are “short”, too. He might not last this long, but I’m hoping his stock takes a drop at the combine due to his less than stellar measurables.
Others: Aaron Henry, S, Josh Kaddu, LB, DaJohn Harris, DT, Lavonte David, LB.
6th – Akiem Hicks, DT (Canadian DT) Late round shot on a developmental defensive tackle. See what magic Washburn can work with Hicks’ frame. Truthfully, a lot more of it is on the player rather than the coach, but maybe Hicks will respond to Washburn’s style.
Others: Amini Silatolu, G, Rishaw Johnson, G, Julian Miller, DE, Kyle Wilber, DE. Matt Daniels, S.
7th – BPA
Others: WPA
It is obvious why Tommy doesn’t have us taking a developmental QB.
He clearly has us signing Jim Bob Cooter in free agency. Duh.
hmmm i’d take a run at haynesworth. or at least look into it. randy moss too. dream team lives on!
In looking at the two teams in the SB it seems like O is more important then D. I could think of 2 rec on the Giants as well as as on the Patriots that are better than any of our best. N.Y. – Nicks and Cruz. N.E. Gronk, Hernandez amd Weller. We could keep trying to stop them with 3 Pro Bowl CB’s and on D, but they weren’t that great on D. No disrespect to our little O rec. but if we want to score TD’s we need to draft at least 1 player if we sign 1 FA. Hopefully draft 2: Ither Floyd, Jeffrey or Sanu & the only player who can be as talented, big & fast as Gronk and that’s TE Fleener.
I love the Keenan Robinson pick. Love him after watching some film on him, he can often be very dominant and is great value in the third round. Think he could start by the regular seasons start?
Does anyone feel as though there is a huge chance that the eagles go WR in 1st round. I mean if jackson goes via trade or free agency, and we are not able to sign a good WR, that leaves us a huge hole on the outside. If that does happen i think eagles go wr in 1st, lb in 2nd or third and slot corner in 3rd or 4th. Any thoughts on this?
Also, Tommy, what are your thoughts on Graham? Do you think he will be able to rebound after his acl tear? To be honest i was never high on him, and i am still out of my mind furious that we could have had JPP, and we went with graham. Could you imagine jpp in the wide 9. omg, get chills thinking about it.
I know the questions were directed towards tommy, but there is great football knowledge on this site and anyone is welcome to answer.
thanks.
ooooo, and what did you guys think about herremans as rt this past year? i think he is a solid rt, but he was very inconsistent. I was a little disapointed to tell you the truth.
Does anyone else here just completely hate roseman, and feel as though he is going to bring this team downhill with very average to poor drafting for years to come?
No, because his drafts haven’t been nearly as bad as people try to make them out to be. There’ve been some misses, but a number of decent hits as well. If part of your problem with Howie, for example, is Brandon Graham, you really need a heavy dose of reality. That was not a bad pick, not at all, and he was starting off to a better year than JPP. Hindsight is 20/20 but there’s no way you can criticize Graham for being injured, with no real injury history. The rest of the picks are all over the place, trending more towards good than bad, IMHO.
im not basing my feelings of graham based on his injury. that would be stupid. I beleive that JPP looked like a better player coming out then graham did. and i may be wrong but graham did have knee problems in college.
yes, he has had some decent hits. but in order to build a good team for future you need to really hit on a pick or 2 in the draft. decent doesnt cut it in the nfl, and decent translates to middle of the road. something that will not win you a sb
Time for a new blog post, Tommy. All the manic depressive Eagles fans have arrived.
Hey wait just one second man…
I’ve been here. 😀
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