RG3 & DJax (Sounds Like a Sci-Fi movie)
Posted: February 24th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 55 Comments »We found out today that RG3 met with the Eagles on Thursday night at the Combine. Don’t get too excited. Most likely this is just the Eagles doing due diligence. They believe in researching top QBs so that they can be ready should something happen and the guy slides a bit.
More than a few Eagles fans have made the point that the team could fill all their needs in FA and then trade pick 15 and both 2nd rounders to move up for Griffin. Sounds like a great idea. One big problem. The Rams have the #2 pick and they are going to sell it to the highest bidder. The Eagles would need the 1st, 2nd, 2nd, and more than that. Next year’s 1st at a minimum. Probably more. You’d pay an enormous price.
Teams like the Skins and Browns have Top 10 picks and are more likely trade suitors for the Rams. Jeff Fisher would love to move down and add some ammo, but I’m sure he wants to stay pretty high so he can find a LT, CB, or top shelf WR.
Adding RG3 would also be an awkward move. Andy Reid is in “win now” mode based on the comments from Jeff Lurie’s PC. Do you pay a steep price for a player who would sit this much in 2012? This isn’t like adding a DT who isn’t needed as a starter, but can be worked into the rotation. QB is a one-man position.
The other X-factor is that Mike Vick might not be so keen on having his replacement right behind him. Vick’s never dealt with pressure like that. He might respond great, but might not. If Vick bounces back to 2010 form, we don’t need RG3. If Vick plays like his 2011 self, we do need RG3. What does the FO think? We’ll find out when we see if they make a play for a top QB or stand pat.
While it would be great to add RG3 in theory, the price and timing of the situation don’t make it a likely scenario.
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Okay, I will go conspiracy guy for a second. Why did the Eagles wait for the Scouting Combine to announce the signing of QB Trent Edwards? Could be that they simply had a chance to meet his agent face to face in Indy. Simple logistics.
Or maybe the Eagles made the move in such a public way for a reason. They wanted to get the message out there that they are good at QB with Vick, Edwards, and Kafka. Why would you do this? Maybe the Eagles do have a QB targeted in the draft. By making this move in such a public way you could throw other teams off the trail. Not likely of course, but with the Eagles you do have to analyze every move like this. They are a super sneaky organization and will do some crazy things around draft time to keep other teams guessing.
I wouldn’t even bother to write up such a silly sounding idea except that Edwards worked out for them twice and then there was a delay of a couple of weeks until he did sign. Just seemed odd. Maybe Trent was sorting through offers from the other 31 teams. I’m sure they were all desperate to sign him.
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The Eagles have done nothing but say good things in regard to DeSean Jackson the last week or so. Anyone else’s BS meter been going off due to this? Dave Spadaro keeps pushing the idea DeSean is coming back. Howie, Andy, and Marty are ready to adopt him (3 Men And A Franchise Tagged WR – worst movie idea ever).
Then Adam Schefter reported that the Eagles would listen to trade offers. Even more interesting, that Tweet was retweeted by Eagles Insider, as in…let’s get this rumor out there. Was that just the team simply feeding fans a good rumor or is this a deliberate plan of action? Let’s say good things and make it sound all buddy-buddy with DeSean. Then we’ll quietly float the rumor that DeSean can be had for the right offer.
I remain highly confused by the DeSean situation. Every time I think I’ve got it figured out, someone throws me a curveball.
If the Eagles did decide to make a play for RG3, DeSean could go to the Rams as part of the package. He would probably draw the value of a 2nd round pick, which means the Eagles would still be giving up a boatload of picks. Again, not a likely scenario at all to me.
Geoff Mosher did report on Twitter that Drew Rosenhaus met with Andy Reid. Mosher didn’t say if this was a simple “Hello” at the elevator or an actual sit down meeting.
Proud new papa Jimmy Bama covered the RG3 scenario and gave his opinion.
For those who didn’t yet check this out, do read Jimmy’s story about the birth of his daughter. Classic stuff.
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Combine workouts start on Saturday AM. Here are some things I’ll be watching for.
Could be nothing but the Eagles did change their splash screen on the Eagles App removing Desean Jackson….
And not that I want a QB but I dont but lets hope if a premier player is available the Eagles would trade whatever it would take to move up and draft that player.
We got to pay the price sometimes gentlemen.
Tommy, what do you think of giving up pick #15 for Mike Wallace? While that’s certainly more than I would like to pay for him, I think he’s the best WR available – including Vincent Jackson, et al.
Giving up 15 and a huge contract for a better version of Djax…not sure. I love Mike Wallace (and Morley Safer) but that is far from an ideal scenario.
I think the only way it could really make sense is if you knew for a fact you could trade DeSean for a pick in the early to middle part of the 2nd round. Not so sure that would happen. Trying to upgrade at WR with a RFA over a guy that has the Franchise Tag…just seems like a tricky scenario that could blow up on you.
I know Sam hates the idea.
I definitely can see the argument that Wallace is the best WR available, but considering you would still also need to sign him to a long term contract like any of the other FA WRs, I don’t think Wallace is better than Vincent Jackson or DeSean for that matter plus a first round pick. I just think we can better use our resources.
I think Vincent Jackson is better then Wallace, V-Jackson still makes tons of plays downfield, but he got so much more size over Wallace and Jackson
Adam Schefter’s tweet struck me as weird. For it to be true, the Eagles would have to franchise DeSean, which they haven’t done, and then start talking to teams about trading him. Technically speaking, are the Eagles allowed to have trade conversations with other teams right now?
One possibility could be that the Eagles are looking to gauge the market to see what kinds of offers they would get if they do franchise DeSean. If they sense they could get quality value, then they will franchise him. Otherwise, I could see them taking the attitude that they would not want to deal with keeping Jackson on a one year deal, so the decision changes to whether or not to sign Jackson long term. Thus, they float out the idea that they are willing to trade him now, and see what the market is like, but if they don’t get any interest and decide to work out a deal, they can point to all the “buddy-buddy” talk to save face and suggest that keeping Jackson was part of the plan the entire time.
I think talking to other teams about trades is fine. Just can’t make trades.
Is the “Iggles Blitz *with Tommy Lawlor*” new or did I just notice it?
It has been here since Day One.
Considering a change to : Iggles Blitz … now with more flavor crystals!!!
Well it’s your site. We’re here for you.
Shouldn’t it be: “with Sam when he has something to say”?
Reader made the logo.
If we ever change, maybe we’ll roll with that idea.
i like flavor crystals.
But i thought the point of this site was to promote sunglasses and lasik surgery done on the cheap…
Here’s a question: Does anybody think that if the Eagles finally win a Super Bowl, it will be because of DeSean?
Based on what I’ve seen in his career, I really don’t.
He’s a playmaker, he’s fast, he gave us that amazing Giants game… but no. I don’t think he’s at all necessary. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to keep him. But.
If the difference between what he (or his agent) wants and what the team is willing to pay is at the level of a years salary for a guy like Derek Landri, then just let him go.
Not a bad chance he’ll fail to make a big impact elsewhere (free agent WRs rarely do), and then he can be resigned at a discount in a desperation move to save someone’s job.
I do have serious concerns about whether DeSean is the kind of guy who moves us closer to winning the SB or not. Do I trust him to make a key grab on 3rd/7 with the game on the line?
I love his explosiveness and playmaking ability, but I wonder if that stuff actually takes us down the wrong road. Focus should be on what will help get us to win in the playoffs and back to the SB. You need WRs, but small and speedy isn’t ideal.
But do you trust him to keep us from being in that 3/7 situation by making a huge play earlier? In 2010, yes; in 2011, no for me.
Hey Tommy, I started thinking about your trade desean to the rams for the #2 pick idea and instead of getting RG3, what about drafting Blackmon there?
Trading up to #2 for Blackmon would be a foolish use of resources. Teams are finding good WRs all over the place these days. You only take a WR in the Top 5 if you’re desperate or he’s freakishly good. If Blackmon falls to 10 or 12, maybe. No way you go up real high for him.
Trying to feed the RG3 conspiracy theory…
In preparing for last year’s draft, Andy and Howie watch a lot of Baylor tape to scout Danny Watkins and fall in love with the QB.
Discuss!
Also, Art Briles was Kevin Kolb’s coach. Now is RG3’s.
Many people still forget that drafting top 10 players is not as much as it used to be before the new CBA. You won’t have to give out 50-70 million dollar contracts for top picks anymore. Yes, you may have to give up draft picks and players, but the financial burden is no where near what it was. Big Red knows how to coach up QBs. Not winning a Superbowl, has no impact on that argument. The man makes QBs better here than they are when they go elsewhere. This RG3 situation can go a number of ways. This may be due diligence, this may be smokescreen, this may be curiousity. People keep saying this is Andy’s last shot, so don’t do something like this if you want to save your job. If he drafts RG3 (who is a raw QB compared to Luck in pro offenses), wouldn’t an organization want to keep a coach who has proven he can develop QBs, and put them in the right situation to succeed? Again, I’m not talking success in terms of the ever illusive Lombardi Trophy, I’m just talking in terms of success in Philly with Reid, that they have yet to achieve without him. Big Red may actually be helping his job status by drafting the future QB now, so he has time to groom his pupil. On the opposite side, Lurie’s, Banner’s, and Roseman’s fates are not tied to Andy’s. So, it could be that they like RG3, and want to look at the best interest of their future regardless if Reid is the coach or not. Either way, the stockpiling of draft picks over the last couple years leads us to 11 this year. How many holes outside of MLB (which will probably be addressed in FA) do we really have? The rest is getting depth and competition. I think the term “wasting resources” is a little overblown. No one knows which draft picks will be busts or eventual HOF’ers, no matter what the round. They both come from any round (and UDFA for that matter). You go get the player you want with the means necessary, and I think the Eagles have plenty means necessary to make a move at RG3, and still add other pieces to get us to the prize. Since January 1st, I’ve just wanted to take some Coma Dose and wake up in early September, but now I’m thinking I might want to stay awake…
Nobody seems to be discussing the idea that the Colts take RG3 instead of Luck…
Luck is safer choice and seems like the guy you take #1.
Hey Tommy,
I’m a huge fan of the Eagles from Hungary. I’ve been following your incredible work for a few years now, and you’re the best.
I would have no problem, if we move up and select RG3. I think the downside is that this is a win now year, and we need a little more pieces to achieve the ultimate goal, but not that much. We can fill our holes with a few more pieces (MLB, SAM, WR, depth). I think we address MLB through FA (Lofton, fingers crossed), we can find a legitimate SAM in the 3. round, the WR situation is tricky with the uncertainty around DJax. If we can get a good WR through FA (Vincent Jackson sounds intriguing), we can fill our depth with middle and later round prospects.
But I think our chance to win the SB depends on the performance of Vick. I don’t know what can Vick offer, but we think that RG3 is a unique talent, and we got a shot to move up and select our future, than I’m all for it. The franchise QBs are a rare commodity, and they are the ones who can take a franchise over the fence. My only criteria would be to not sacrifice future drafts for this operation, so no next year 1st rounder. We could offer Djax, Samuel, our 1., 2. and 3. for the 2nd overall pick. I think it can be good for both franchises. The Rams needs tools for Bradford, and needs secondary help so we offer a playmaker, and they can fill their OT need at 15). We select our future and this year’s insurance if Vick is injured, but we can continue building in the next years.
The downside is: what if Big Red walks at the end of the year? The next coach would want RG3 as his QB? If not, it would be a huge mistake selecting him. There’s certainly a chance, but a think RG3 could be a premier talent, and you can build a franchise around him.
Glad to know we have Eagles fans in Hungary. Welcome.
Your point about the importance of Vick is correct. And that makes drafting RG3 a questionable idea. Is Vick going to be at his best with a rookie QB taken #2 overall sitting behind him? No way. Vick would see the writing on the wall. He would press. That could bring out the best in him, but more than likely it would bring out a worse side in him.
Let’s focus on getting Vick to his best for 2012 and see what he can do.
Hey T
How about trading Djax to the Rams for their pick on top of the 2nd round.That way the iggles can draft the best player to drop out of the 1st rd.
Also any chance of packaging AS22 and Djax for a 1st round pick…like one of NE or Cincy’s?
I don’t think the Rams would trade pick 34 for DJax, but I’d sure love a deal like that.
Not sure any team would want Asante and DJax. That would be $15M worth of player, or more. Very pricey.
Hard to think about but…
If a team can give up their late first and get Wallace, doesn’t that improve their team more than a Djax/Lips combo?
This is probably a total stretch, but is it possible that the Eagles talked to RG3 not only as a smokescreen but to also gain some information on Kendall Wright? It seems a little creepy, but would teams do such a thing?
My guess on DeSean Watch 2012: he gets tagged shortly before the deadline, the Eagles listen to trade offers but nothing happens and DJax has a good-but-not-great season for us.
I’m sure the Eagles asked about Wright, but talking to RG3 would be done to get a feel for RG3. Only so many interviews allowed. You have to focus on players that interest you or that you have major questions about (usually underclassmen).
Any thoughts on Adam Gettis Tommy? Body type looks like Mudds ideal at guard.
Gettis is 6’2, 293. I think Mudd would prefer 6’4, but he will certainly like the speed and athleticism Gettis showed. I do need to check his lateral agility. Looked very good as a straight ahead guy.
Eagles are covering all the angles:
1) they franchise Djax at $9.6M, he won’t be unhappy b/c I doubt anyone is talking to Rosenhaus about $20M bonuses, so if his best deal is say $12M bonus and $9M a year, he’s looking at a 3 year, $27M contract if he stays healthy, and maybe $15M total if he gets hurt in 2012 (Sam has a better idea what the 1st year salary has to be). So getting franchised doesn’t cost him that much in terms of financial security. The franchise deal ensures Eagles have to pay $11.5M to keep him in 2013 or he hits the market at age 26 with a higher salary cap in 2013. I’m sure he’s learned what not playing well did to his market value.
2) they franchise and trade him, they can wait for a week now that they have $25M in cap room, they can sign two major FAs, then trade DeSean and Asante once the top FAs are off the market and the losers are willing to talk turkey.
3) if they don’t get an offer they like, unlike Asante, DeSean has a set role in the current offense, so they can keep him for a year while they draft and develop a young WR or two. They pretty much have to trade Asante for whatever they can get, it’s obvious that DRC can’t play the slot.
If we are talking conspiricies…
Remember last year when no one knew we were going after Scrabble until he was an Eagle? Maybe Trent was a smoke screen to cover us bringing Manning on board. I bet he has as many years as a starter left as Vick, and he could fix some of Marty’s tendencies with audibles.
If we were to add Manning, would anyone feel we need to resign Jackson to keep the offense from slipping compared to last year?
Can you imagine the combination of Jackson’s speed with Manning’s ability to read the defense and make changes presnap?
How about if we send Vick and Jackson to the Rams? How much picks would it take then? Hell, throw in Asante and JamJax and we have 90% of our preseason action in one fell swoop.
Ridiculous post. How do you leave out our signing of Marvin Harrison to make Peyton feel truly at home?
if the eagles tag desean could they untag him or would they be forced to do some sort of a trade
The Tag can be removed at any time…unless the player has signed the offer sheet. Once he signs, the team is obligated to pay him. He can still be traded at that point, but it is a complicated process.
Eagles would not want to trade up with 3 2nd Rd picks. Good players in 2nd.
3 6ths would not be worth a 4th. Picks in the first 5 rounds have good value. 6th, 7th are much lower.
Here’s something else to consider, right now they have Kafka and Edwards as the backups, Tommy wants Hasselback.
How much value does DeSean have in a ball control offense without a QB with a big arm? Stallworth didn’t have one catch over 20 yards in the air from Jeff Garcia.
So if you don’t think Vick has a long future, does signing DeSean long-term make sense? He’s not going to add 20 lbs and work out of the slot as he ages.
Jeff hit Donte with a deep ball in the playoff game for a long TD.
Just proves my point. Jeff’s arm was so bad by the playoffs no one even bothered to cover on the deep routes.
AR always saves those trick plays for when he really needs them!
If the Eagles were so in love with RGIII then why did they win so many useless games at the end of the season? At the least, they could’ve lost their last game when they were eliminated from playoff contention. Probably would’ve moved them up in the draft a few slots… For free.
Just seems ridiculous that we would consider such a trade to move up to take a top 5 player and not manage the season record better ala the colts. They have the #1 pick on purpose. Maybe we can do the same thing if Vick doesn’t pan out well next year or the following. Whichever draft will have the better QB.
if the eagles won one more game they would be in the playoffs but if they lost one more game they would have the 10th pick in the draft
My point exactly, thanks for finding the detail. 2nd to last game of the season we beat the Cowboys, but the Giants beat the Jets and eliminated our chance of getting to the playoffs.
Winning that last game against Washington pulled us 5 slots down in the draft…. for what? Just to show the Eagle faithful that they werent a bunch of loosers to end 8-8 instead of 7-9?
Seems like a waste to me, but maybe pride still counts for something these days… though I’d sacrifice pride for the Eagles having a Superbowl win.
Its pretty rough when Dallas, NYG, and Wash have 3 or more Superbowl Victories and we have 0.
EXACTLY . . . shades of the Rich Kotite era. Lots of useless wins that pushed the Eagles 4 or 5 slots down in the draft.
But Kotite was pretty bad in the draft-room, so I doubt it’d made a difference.
Consider the first choices in he made in the four drafts he ran:
1991 – OT Antone Davis (cost two No. 1 picks — with GB giving nothing back to offset the Eagles’ 1992 1st rounder; absolutely terrible deal even if Davis had been good )
1992 – RB Siran Stacy (2nd rd; gave up the 1st rounder to get Davis the year before)
1993 – DT Leonard Renfro (instead of Dana Stubblefield) & OG Lester Holmes (Mike Stahan still on the board)
1994 – OT Bernard Williams (smoked so much pot, he drove the price up in Philly to $150/oz . . . and lasted just 1 year in the NFL.)
It’d be great to have *Big* WR who can also run.
T-LAW does not like Alshon Jeffrey.
Okay . . . how ’bout Georgia Tech’s Stephen Hill. 6’4″ 215 lbs.
G-Tech has turned out big WRs Calvin Johnson and Demaryius Thomas.
So let’s make a run at Hill. Cut D-Jax loose or trade him for anything you can get.
And sign Curtis Lofton at MLB.
Signing Lofton before the draft opens up LOTS of options in terms of maximizing the value of the Eagles’ pick
Send Desean and Asante to the Pats for one of their 1sts and a late round pick. Helps solve two major holes on the pats….verticle threat and corner. Eagles take Kendall wright at 15 and Sanu late in the first. U now have Machlin/Sanu/wright/avant/cooper. Sanu and wright on the new rookie salary cost u as much as desean would of. Sign Lofton in FA. Use ur two 2nds on Boykin and OLB. ….one can dream right!?!?
Our largest concern on defense has to be upgrading the LB corps. I see a number of potential targets in free agency, both inside and outside, who could help our squad. If I was sitting in Howie Roseman’s position, I would look to sign Erin Henderson (25 years old, 6’3″ 244 lb. 70 tackles, 2 FF last year, his only as a starter) to fill our void at SAM and Stephen Tulloch (27 years old, 5’11” 240 lb., 111 tackles, 3 sacks, 3 FR, 2 picks) to play inside. The money we save from moving Asante alone should be enough to get those guys in green, or at least come pretty close. That way we have maximum flexibility in the draft, and can hold onto Desean if necessary (no other FA WR pans out) or possibly invest in Kendall Wright if we move him. I believe the safety position will come around. But we will not have a championship level defense until we get an influx of talent at the LB position. Just my two cents.
Tommy,
Will you make an Eagles draft board? Where you only include players that fit our scheme, and how you would value them according to their importance to us?
I think that could be very cool!
Tommy typically does a lot of draft resources – mock drafts, Eagles targets, the All-Tommy team, etc.
Tried to use the nfl trade value chart, since none of the RGIII articles seem to mention it. I know its outdated (especially with lower topend salaries) and I know that someone may overpay, but its interesting for perspective (especially since both of those factors would drive the price up, and its ridiculous as is under the chart) – http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
Here is giving up our first and both seconds:
2nd pick is 2600-1050 (15th) – 430 (46) /390 (51)=730 remaining
That still leaves you needing a late first round pick or two more second round picks. So really even if you could move up for fair value based on the old chart, you would still need to then trade asante and desean for second rounders and include those picks too.
So the final trade would be our first round and FOUR second round picks… unless I’m missing something… and again, assuming no bidding war.
You’d probably have to do 1, 2, 2, and next year’s 1 at the very least to make the swap. You’ve also got Cleveland with two 1’s this year who will also want RG3… which is why I think you’d have to pony up even more. Starts to get very costly…
Yeah, but using next year picks are apparently worth a round less compared to this years, so next years 1 might only be considered the same value as a high 2 this year.
Especially after we win the Super Bowl, right?
Tommy, Now that Blackmon measured in at 6 feet, any chance his stock falls a bit? I could see many teams valuing Floyd over him now if he posts a good 40 time. With that said, what would you think about trading one of our 2nds to move up to 8 to get Blackmon? We’ve traded with Miami in the past and if he falls there I would love to get him.
A lot of fans seem to be jonesing for Mike Wallace, which tells me to stay the hell away from Mike Wallace.
What about a 3 way trade with the Eagles, Redskins, and Rams. Eagles get #2 pick, rams get eagles first rounder, redskins first rounder, and desean jackson. Redskins get Vick