More on the Eagles and the 1st Round

Posted: March 26th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 63 Comments »

Lots of good discussion in the early post from today.  Let’s start by talking about Fletcher Cox for a minute.  I love the kid to death and think he can be a stud in the NFL.  He’s an athletic DT that can get after the QB.  Has rare speed for a guy his size.  And it shows up on game tape, not just when he’s wearing shorts and running around at the Combine.

That said…I don’t know what the consensus on Cox is.  I do know that multiple teams have him rated in the Top 10 on their board.  That doesn’t mean that he is a lock to go Top 10.  Teams build draft boards that have anywhere from 100 to 175 players on them.  Teams are picky.  If those teams take someone else, it is possible for Cox to slide to the 20’s.  I sure don’t anticipate that happening, but you never know.

Cox isn’t a no-brainer Top 10 guy.  Really, no DL is this year.  Melvin Ingram is the closest thing to a lock to go Top 10, but even he has some warts.  This isn’t like Suh and McCoy going early.  Or Chris Long.  Or Mario Williams.  Cox would be a great addition to the Eagles D-line, but he’s not someone so special that we “must go get him”.

Luke is actually the more rare player.  How often do you have a LB who led the nation in tackles back-to-back years…who is 6’3, 242….who had a very good (if not great) Combine workout…and who has no issues?

The problem is this…when is the last time a 4-3 LB was a significant factor in a team winning the Super Bowl?  Defensive linemen are still more important.  It really is a fascinating debate.

As to the question of Kuechly and value…I don’t see him going inside the Top 10.  After that, nothing will surprise me.  Could go 12 or 22 or (god forbid) 32.  Somebody get a suicide watch going if that happens.

We can argue about which teams ahead of us that Luke might fit, but you still have to address the question of whether the team has the luxury of spending a pick that high on a LB.

I do think either Luke or Cox will be on the board at 15.  If not, things get really interesting.  That will mean that some other player has dropped.  The guy who I could see falling is DE Quinton Coples.

A 6-6, 284 DE that runs well and is physically gifted is normally a lock to go early.  Coples did not have a good Senior year and that has some people concerned.  I think he still goes ahead of us, but should he slide to 15…the Eagles will have a real interesting discussion.

Coples lacks the quickness/burst to be a good RDE.  He is fast, though.  Putting him in the Wide-9 and letting him fly off the edge might be a way to bring out the best in him.  His motor is far from non-stop and that’s something Jim Washburn would have to deal with, but he might be so intrigued by Coples’ talent that he thinks it is worth the challenge.

The x-factor is that Coples played DT in 2010.  If he could slide inside for us as a pass rusher, that would make Coples really intriguing.  Washburn loves versatile DL.  Jim also likes to have a tall guy or two in the mix.  We really don’t have a tall DL right now.  Coples would take care of that.

Let’s say there is a nightmare scenario where Kuechly and the top DL are all gone.  The guys that slide are OL and skill players.  In that case, the Eagles would be well advised to move back.  Get to pick 25 or 30, add some ammunition for the future, and re-assess things.  One player who might be a target then would be TE Coby Fleener.

Chris McPherson and Bo Wulf hosted Eagles Live today.  They made a very interesting point.  The starting WRs are set.  The starting RB is set.  Brent Celek is clearly the TE for now, but there is room for a long term upgrade if you go for a guy like Fleener.  I have no idea if Andy Reid is genuinely interested, but Fleener is worth talking about.  He’s 6-6, 247.  He ran in the 4.45 range at his Pro Day.  He averaged almost 20 yards per catch in 2011.  He was nothing like a traditional TE for Stanford.  Fleener was a vertical guy and big play threat.  He had 10 TD catches (17 in the last 2 years).

I don’t see Fleener as worth pick 15, but I could be way off on that.  TE is a funny position.  Guys go much earlier and much later than expected for some reason.  Never have really figured out why some guys drop.

Another quick name to mention…Tony Pauline has reported that Vinny Curry could be a guy who will go in the 1st round.  Pauline even said that Curry could have a Tyson Alualu type of jump up the boards (from late 1st/early 2nd to the Top 15).  Curry just seems like a guy that Washburn would love.  Great motor.  Productive.  LDE or RDE.  Lined up at DT in Mobile and was unblockable.  Uses his hands really well.  Gifted pass rusher.

Just over a month to go.

* * * * *

Matt Alkire posted a new mock draft at ScoutsNotebook.

* * * * *

Sad news to report…WR Steve Smith is now a Ram.  I know many of you dreamed of his return, to help lead us to the promised land.  We must come together at a tough time like this and support each other.  The only way we’ll get through this is by being there for each other.

Who will ever forget the time Smith almost got us the the Super Bowl by falling on the ground on 3rd down instead of fighting to move the chains?  That guy was 100,000 percent tuff.  Or more.

Godspeed, Smitty.  I can only hope the citizens of St. Louis get half the greatness from you that we did.

63 Comments on “More on the Eagles and the 1st Round”

  1. 1 Jim Reynolds said at 5:53 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Tommy, what do think of some of the other top DTs? I ranked my preference for the Eagles previously – Cox, Jerel Worthy, Devon Still, and Kendall Reyes.

    Do you see any of those guys falling to our top, mid-second round pick? Any of my DTs you have a problem with, or better suited for a scheme other than the Wide-9? Anyone else you see going in the first round?

  2. 2 Kammich said at 5:55 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Good stuff, Judge Dredd(I just imagine you running around saying “I am the Lawlor!”, sorry.)

    As I said in the prior thread, I love Fletcher Cox. Despite being an underclassman who hasn’t even hit the peak of his potential, he’s already the most polished pass-rushing DT in the draft. We could also line him up at LDE in certain sets and make him our “rich man’s” Red Bryant.

    With that said, value be damned, I think Kuechly would be the appropriate addition if we were staring down that barrel. 4-3 linebackers may not have a track record of being imperative to a Super Bowl champion’s success, but we haven’t had a single stalwart linebacker since the Ax Man. On top of that, Kuechwalker looks like he has the intangibles and versatility that just don’t come along all that often in this league. He looks like a surefire, Day One starter for the next 10-12 years. A lot of teams will have Fletcher above Kuechwalker on their draft boards, but for us I think Kuechly is of a great value.

    I’ve become slightly enamored with Fleener, and if we traded back he’d be an ideal target. I’m definitely saying “no” at #15, though. Vick and Celek began to gel big time in the second half, and if Celek stays in shape I expect great things from him next year. I just really, really like Fleener, and I certainly think he’s justifiable in the top-32.

    Carryover question from the last thread… I really like Brandon Thompson and Kendall Reyes as 2nd round targets if we don’t land Cox. Thompson may not be an ideal fit for Washburn, but what do you think about Reyes? A tall, lithe pass-rusher who is only a few years removed from being a 3-sport high school athlete who was really raw before landing at UConn. I think he could be really productive for us.

  3. 3 47_Ronin said at 10:39 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    I cannot agree that Kuechly would be the more appropriate draft pick over Cox. Kuechly is a good prospect, but as we can all agree that the NFL is a QB/passing league I would value a player who can get after the QB more. At 15 I want a LB who can basically do it all (tackle, cover and get some sacks). Yes LK is a tackling machine, but for his career he only has 2 sacks (and 2 QB hurries). Mychal Kendricks is also a tackling machine and he got to the QB in college (12 sacks), he’s getting a 2nd rd grade. Would the Eagles be worse off with taking a DL at 15 or earlier and getting a LB like Kendricks in the 2nd rd?

  4. 4 bridgecoach said at 2:57 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    But we are not drafting in a vacuum! We already have the best pass rush in the league with our DL. Adding Cox can’t improve on that – he just provides youth and depth – same as Thompson, Worthy, Ta’amu, etc will. Our LBs are the worst in the league – adding a 3 down LB like Kuechly will improve that significantly. If anything happens to Ryans, Kuechly would be ready to step in. Kendricks will be off the board before we pick Rd2.

  5. 5 Skeptic_Eagle said at 10:36 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Kendricks is a good option in the 2nd, as is Lavonte David. I know some might say “they’re not SAM LBs, they’re WILL”, but come on, is Akeem Jordan a “SAM” LB? Is Keenan Clayton? Is Jamar Chaney?

  6. 6 Cody Benjamin said at 6:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Tommy, your farewell to Steve Smith doesn’t do justice.

  7. 7 Kammich said at 6:01 PM on March 26th, 2012:

  8. 8 Kammich said at 6:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Shizzle, we didn’t get a single compensatory pick. All of those big free agent signings must’ve out-weighed the losses… of… Sav Rocca…?

  9. 9 TommyLawlor said at 7:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Just more proof the NFL is out to get us.

  10. 10 Dave_King said at 7:36 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Akers as well. Question: I understand compensatory picks are done by free agents lost minus those that are signed, but is this on a team basis (eg, the Eagles brought in more UFAs than they lost/let walk) or on a position-by-position basis (eg the Eagles lost Stewart Bradley, but got nothing)?

  11. 11 sonofdman said at 9:34 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Team basis

  12. 12 Kammich said at 10:01 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Yep, team basis. For instance, Oakland lost starters like Asomugha, Robert Gallery and Zach Miller, so they were rewarded with the highest comp pick this year(a late third). Had they signed a bunch of high-profile FAs in their place, it would’ve cancelled that out.

  13. 13 Steve H said at 6:09 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    You know theres so many goats this year, from Ronnie Brown to Steve Smith to Vince Young… it really is something that Steve Smith seems to be the most hated from that bunch.

  14. 14 TommyLawlor said at 7:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:


  15. 15 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:29 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    pre-existing hate+new found hate=DOUBLE HATE

  16. 16 sonofdman said at 9:35 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    I still think he was a double agent. We’ll see if he gets a Super Bowl ring.

  17. 17 Jeppe van Ee said at 6:35 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    IF we draft a TE highly, does that mean that we carry 3 TEs or do we move on from Clay Harbor?

    I guess my dream om getting both Curry and Boykin in the 2nd might prove to be a pipe dream…

  18. 18 TommyLawlor said at 7:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Clay stays. Good young player. If we go TE, it is because someone like Fleener is special.

  19. 19 Jeppe van Ee said at 7:31 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Is it possible that we don’t use a FB this year and opting to go for 3 TEs instead? If so is Harbor a good enough blocker? I know it’s not Celeks or Fleeners strengths…

  20. 20 Dave_King said at 7:38 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Celek is a very good blocker as well as a good pass-catcher. I don’t know if the Eagles value TE enough to draft one high in this draft (already reputed to be a weak crop at the position), and I think they’d rather develop a young guy like they did with Harbor. Personally, I hope they signed the basketball player turned rugby star they worked out, Hayden Smith. He’s got offers from other teams too, but so did Hunt last year. At 6’6, 265, he’s got incredible potential.

  21. 21 Anders Jensen said at 5:09 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    We only used the FB on 16% of the plays last year. The Eagles favorit run formatiom was from 2 TE sets with Harbor as a FB/TE tweener (he was that in college aswell)

  22. 22 iskar36 said at 8:43 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Wait, I’m confused by your response. If we went after Fleener, do you still think Clay stays? I think Clay has done a decent job so far in his career, and he certainly may improve, but I think he has to show a little more for him to be in the future plans of the Eagles. If we draft Fleener (or a TE in the first 2 or 3 rounds), Clay would get very limited opportunities to show the team anything.

  23. 23 iskar36 said at 8:43 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Wait, I’m confused by your response. If we went after Fleener, do you still think Clay stays? I think Clay has done a decent job so far in his career, and he certainly may improve, but I think he has to show a little more for him to be in the future plans of the Eagles. If we draft Fleener (or a TE in the first 2 or 3 rounds), Clay would get very limited opportunities to show the team anything.

  24. 24 Christopher Burak said at 6:51 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    tommy, if luke and cox are both there at 15, any way the eagles take cox (with the assumption he is viewed as the more valuable player) then hope luke falls to the latter part of the draft, where they could trade back in to the end of the first to get him??

    i imagine the pats, could be possible trade partners at 27 and 31.

    or is there too much value in the second round to trade up for luke??

  25. 25 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:31 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    i was going to ask the same thing. maybe some sort of package of asante and a second? are there any cb needy teams in the mid 20’s?

  26. 26 bridgecoach said at 3:03 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Don’t try to mastermind this. If you want Kuechly, draft him at 15. The extra pick isn’t worth the risk of losing out on him. If you are willing to roll the dice, roll the dice on the deep position (DT) not the scarce one.

  27. 27 Thunder_lips said at 7:07 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    City-wide mourning in Philadelphia. Goodbye Steve Smith… as Steven Tyler once sang, there’s a hole in my soul (and also your hands).

  28. 28 Arby1 said at 7:15 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    re: Matt’s mock

    I seriously doubt that Poe, Brockers and Martin are all gone before 15. But that’s what we’d need to happen to get a shot at either Luke or Cox. (imho).

  29. 29 Jeppe van Ee said at 7:17 PM on March 26th, 2012:


    What positions would you approve of in the 1st round? You’ve previously stated that you don’t want a RB, WR, OL or S.

    Would you draft a CB not named Morris in the first? I had a conversation with Matt Alkire about Gilmore. I would draft him based on BPA, because we don’t yet know what to make of DRC. What if he plays lights out this year and demand premium $ next year?

  30. 30 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:33 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    i think they may extend DRC before the season. no reason to risk him walking in FA unless we are very confident in Curtis Marsh. we either have to sign him or shady because we only have one franchise tag

  31. 31 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:33 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    i think they may extend DRC before the season. no reason to risk him walking in FA unless we are very confident in Curtis Marsh. we either have to sign him or shady because we only have one franchise tag

  32. 32 Skeptic_Eagle said at 10:38 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    My money is on the Cowboys drafting Gilmore.

  33. 33 Jeppe van Ee said at 7:30 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    If we stay at #15 and assuming Claiborne and Tannehill are gone, this is my list of players I would draft in the first round

    1) F. Cox
    2) L. Kuechly
    3) W. Mercilus
    4) K. Reyes (barring a trade down)
    5) C. Fleener (barring a trade down)
    6) S. Gilmore (If we don’t see DRC as a longtime solution)

    What is your list of potential picks in the first?

  34. 34 Kammich said at 10:09 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Yes, more mentions of Kendall Reyes! I wouldn’t take him at #15, but he’s quickly becoming one of my most coveted targets.

  35. 35 Jim Reynolds said at 3:29 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    My second favorite DT pick after Cox – Jerel Worthy, MSU. So explosive getting off the snap, he’s perfect for the Wide-9.

  36. 36 nopain23 said at 8:20 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Cant pass on LK is he’s there at 15.there is no other LB who comes close to LK in the dtaft.if we get LK40 at 15.then we can draft D Wolfe in the 2nd round.not a huge drop off in talent from cox…and Washburn can coach em up like no one can.draft is deep at DL…unless luck or rg3 is sitting there at 15..Luke will be BPA…plus I already asked my wife to get me an LK40 jersey in midnight green for Christmas…..!!

  37. 37 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:34 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    luckily the draft is before christmas

  38. 38 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:34 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    luckily the draft is before christmas

  39. 39 the guy said at 8:51 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    “Godspeed, Smitty. I can only hope the citizens of St. Louis get half the greatness from you that we did.”

    What did the Rams ever do to you that’s worthy of *this*?

  40. 40 TommyLawlor said at 11:29 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    2001 NFC title game

  41. 41 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:11 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    never forget

  42. 42 ACViking said at 9:07 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    RE: Coby Fleener at No. 15

    In the 45 years of the common draft (i.e., post NFL/AFL merger), only 20 TEs have been chosen among the first 15 picks. And 7 of them came in the first 13 years. Five years is the longest period between drafts — twice so far — w/ a TE being picked in the Top 15. Only once in 45 years have 2 TEs been chosen in the Top 15. And, not surprisingly, way back in the early 70s, the Eagles used the 6th Pick in Rd 1 TWICE within 4 years to draft a TE.

    To date, only 1 HOF TE was picked in the Top 15. But there’s at least one more in the group.

    Among the first group of 5 picks (listed below), 3 players made the Pro Bowl. Among the next five, only 2 made the Pro Bowl. In the third group of 5 only 1 choice made the Pro Bowl.

    But among the last group of 5, each of the choices has made the Pro Bowl at least once.

    Here they are:

    1969: Ted Kwalick – Penn State. 9th Pick – 49ers
    1970: STEVE ZABEL – Oklahoma. 6th Pick – EAGLES
    1972: Riley Odoms – Houston. 5th Pick – Broncos
    1973: CHARLES YOUNG – USC. 6th Pick – EAGLES
    1974: JV Cain – Colorado. 7th Pick – Cardinals

    1978: Ken McAfee – Notre Dame. 7th Pick – 49ers
    1979: Kellen Winslow – Missouri. 13th Pick – Chargers (HALL OF FAME)
    1980: Junior Miller – Nebraska. 7th Pick – Falcons
    1981: Willie Scott – So. Carolina. 14th Pick – Chiefs
    1983: Tony Hunter – Notre Dame. 12th Pick – Bills

    1988: KEITH JACKSON – Oklahoma. 13th Pick – EAGLES
    1992: Derek Brown – Notre Dame. 14th Pick – Giants
    Johnny Mitchell – Nebraska. 15th Pick – Jets
    1995: Kyle Brady – Penn State. 9th Pick – Jets
    1996: Ricky Dudley – Ohio State. 9th Pick – Raiders

    1997: Tony Gonzalez – California. 13th Pick – Chiefs (HOF ?)
    2000: Bubba Franks – Miami. 14th Pick – Packers
    2002: Jeremy Shockey – Miami. 14th Pick – Giants
    2004: Kellen Winslow II – Miami. 6th Pick – Browns
    2006: Vernon Davis – Maryland. 6th Pick – 49ers


    Is Coby Fleener as skilled and athletic as Tony Gonzalez and Vernon Davis coming out of college? He didn’t look like it in the Stanford games I watched. Really, not close.

  43. 43 Kammich said at 10:04 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    That’s why you’re great, ACVike. Can’t beat that level of research.

    Like I said earlier, as much as I am truly enamored with Fleener–and I am–I still say a definitive NO to taking him at #15. We were 8-8 last year. We’re not in the position for that type of luxury pick. Gonzo wasn’t expected to be as great as he was, coming out of college… so its hard to compare. Fleener is NOT the athlete that Vernon Davis was, because Davis put on arguably one of the top-5 greatest Combine performances of all time. Fleener is simply a great tight end. Played in a pro style offense, but still manages to stretch the field. Legitimate athlete(but not mind-blowing). Confident blocker. Savvy route runner. Compares favorably to the Dallas Clark’s and Jason Witten’s of the world, in my opine.

    However, in the extreme hypothetical of trading down with, say, New England… picking around #27 and recouping another 2nd or 3rd round pick, then I would definitely consider it. Because I think Fleener has a chance to be special, and we’d have three 2nd round picks to still play around with.

  44. 44 teltschikfakeout88 said at 11:30 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Gonzo a project? He and LaFleur were the top two TE prospects in the draft in 97. He played basketball at Cal logging about 18 minutes on a sweet 16 team in 97. Came out as a true junior and had a great combine after leading the ncaa in receptions for a te as well as yardage. He had limited game tape as a frosh and soph. Regardless the guy was a elite prospect which was evidenced by playing D1 basketball.

  45. 45 Kammich said at 1:28 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Well, by project I meant another guy that was off the charts athletically but the question was whether or not the production would translate. Only 81 catches for 1,240 yards and 7 TDs in his college career(very similar numbers to Vernon Davis, is memory serves).

    The skills were there, but that kind of production would label him as a bit of a project… especially considering the Chiefs traded UP to get him.

  46. 46 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:01 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Luck, Griffin, and Kalil are the top 3 picks. Blackmon, Claiborne, and Richardson should be the next 3 players to get drafted. That leaves us with 9/15 top players that may fall to pick 15. What would your draft board look like for those 9 players?

    Mine would be:

    1. Coples
    2. Ingram
    3. Cox
    4. Kuechly
    5. DeCastro
    6. Floyd
    7. Rieff
    8. Brockers
    9. Tannenhill

    If either Tannenhill, Floyd, Reiff or DeCastro is available, I would look to trade down and hope for a future 1st.

  47. 47 Kammich said at 10:18 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    Are we considering team need, or just what players we would value most? If we’re going strictly by draft board, I’d be going with DeCastro. Kid is going to be a Steve Hutchinson-level elite OG.

    If we’re factoring in Eagles team needs… 1a) Kuechwalker, 1b) Cox, 2) Coples, 3) Ingram, 4) Kirkpatrick, 5) Floyd, 6) Poe, 7) Fleener, 8) Mark Barron, 9) Brockers… I guess. Tough question.

  48. 48 aub32 said at 11:00 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    I think there’s a really good chance of Cox being there at 15 with other teams needing O line help and teams reaching for a QB like Tannehill or even Wheedon. If he’s not I’d rather trade back for Curry late in the first and pick up either Reyes or Thompson in the second. I’m warming up to the idea of taking Luke but I’d much prefer D line depth than LB depth. As we saw from the Giants in their past two SB wins. A great D line can cover up a lot of defensive warts. Where as there starting MLB was out for the season this past year.

  49. 49 Eric Weaver said at 11:19 PM on March 26th, 2012:


    I thought when I mentioned if Fleener drops to the first 2nd round pick that the Eagles should take him and you said TE should wait until next year. Have you now changed that opinion?

  50. 50 nickross23 said at 11:29 PM on March 26th, 2012:

    So two things caught my eye on eagles news. First was an Article by Jeff McLane on about the eagles possibly targeting a QB ealy as round 2. The other was from my favorite draft site on, where it reported the eagles worked out MSU Kirk Cousins, Wis Russell Wilson, and S.D. State Ryan Lindley. Now I’m all for use targeting a QB but not till at least round 4. the guy I like in that area is ASU Brock Osweiler. Tommy what are your thoughts on Osweiler compared to the other guys previously mentioned?

  51. 51 Kammich said at 1:35 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Wilson and Lindley are later round, developmental prospects for sure. As Tommy has highlighted in the past, Andy loves his QBs and you can never discount the fact that he’ll probably take a flier on one late in the draft.

    Cousins troubles me, because his good Senior year(as well as Senior Bowl performance) is pushing him up draft boards right behind Weeden, which probably puts him in the 2nd round range. If we’re going to expel a 2nd round pick on a QB, I want a franchise-caliber QB prospect. I don’t think Cousins(nor Weeden, at the age of 28) are close to that, unless you’re a desperate team like Cleveland.

    Osweiler passes the eyeball test and he’s a great athlete for his size. Posted good numbers on his junior year. But his mechanics are troubling. Why does someone who is 6’7 have such an egregious over-the-top delivery? Reads are questionable and the football IQ just might not be there from a guy who floated around a few different programs looking for time on the BBall court, only to settle at Arizona State when a QB spot opened up and bolt after one and a half productive seasons.

  52. 52 nickross23 said at 11:49 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Completely agree, non of these QBs outside of the top two guys are special talents. Cousins has some serious inconsistent moments from the tapes ive watched that gives me pause. He is clearly a mid round guy that’s being pushed up the boards. I guess with me and Osweiler is the fact that you can work on his footwork and mechanics. As for the whole I.Q. question goes he’s a guy that hasn’t played much ball but who would you rather have coaching up a developmental qb prospect then AR n MM

  53. 53 austinfan said at 12:30 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    You have to be really careful with workouts, Fleener weighted 241 lbs at his workout when he put up what is probably a 4.50 (I average pro day numbers b/c they’re hand timed, and you have to watch surfaces, VT for example runs on Astroturf, Wilson’s 4.4 is really the same as his 4.49 combine run). Fleener ain’t getting on the field in a two TE formation at 241 lbs, Harbor ran 4.64 at 252 lbs, so they knew what they were getting. Fleener adds ten lbs and suddenly he’s a 4.6 TE, nice, but not 1st rd pick nice (Graham ran 4.55 at 260 lbs). In fact, if you’re gonna draft a project TE, you might wait until the 3rd rd to take Green.

    I don’t like Coples for the Eagles, 284 lbs at the combine, doesn’t look that good, drops 6 lbs at his pro day, moves better – to me that’s a sign of a kid who’ll struggle to play at a much heavier weight – which means he’s an iffy prospect at DT. Good pick for a team needing a 4-3 LDE or 3-4 one gap DE (SF, for example).

    A lot of drafting players isn’t their college film, but also projecting how their bodies will change with age and workouts, and how their role in the pros relates to their college performance – Coples might be able to dominate college interiors, but in the pros, if he doesn’t have a high motor, how fast will he wear down wrestling with 320 lb OGs at 280 lbs? Fleener as a 240 lb WR with average WR speed is nothing special, he has to become a 255 lb TE who can block adequately as well as split the seam to be special.

  54. 54 Eric Weaver said at 9:29 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Granted I’m not saying Fleener is comparable to Pettigrew, but Pettigrew ran in the low 4.8s so the 40 time doesn’t matter much, in my opinion.

  55. 55 Jack Waggoner said at 12:41 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    What do you guys think of Dre Kirkpatrick if he makes it to 15 and Keuchly/Cox do not?

  56. 56 rdw56 said at 7:58 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Trade down and/or into next year. They have Asomugha for at least two more full years and, I assume Asante is gone, if DRC gets near his all-pro level of 2010 they are set. Marsh was their best looking rookie in camp last year and Hughs has real potential. A repeat of the Carolina trade where they got a 2nd and a 1st the following year (became Jason Peters) would set the table to trade for a franchise QB should Vick prove he’s not that guy, Even dropping from 15 to 22 could get a good 3rd and that’s a nice chip.

  57. 57 Skeptic_Eagle said at 11:01 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Kirkpatrick looks like a safety to me. I don’t know how he’ll fare as a man-to-man coverage corner in the NFL. Would be best suited for a cover 2 scheme, but I think he has the ability to play free safety. Kind of like what the Eagles were *trying* to do with Marlin Jackson.

  58. 58 Zachary Kaplan said at 8:32 AM on March 27th, 2012:


    Hypothetical….lets say Justin Blackmon falls….we interested in a WR?

    Look I know that’s not happening, but there is a very real chance that Michael Floyd and Kendall Wright will be available at 15….and I don’t know how the Eagles could just ignore them.

    You talk about starters set – well our top 2 DT’s are set, and really our top 3, could even be 4 if Landri is re-signed.

    Our DE’s? I kind of feel like the starters are set…Graham is here. Maybe someone could push Hunt out, but I doubt it.

    TE – could be interesting, we see what atheltic TE’s can do in todays NFL, that said Celek has been pretty good.

    LB – you have a point here, but the position is de-valued around the league, and has been by the organization for years.

    To me – a WR – even if it’s a deep class – even if the starters are set – makes sense. It’s a pass heavy league, and we’re a pass heavy team.

  59. 59 Kristopher Cebula said at 9:16 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    our defensive line is currently set with aging players whereas our wide receivers are still young with a lot of years ahead of them

  60. 60 Zachary Kaplan said at 9:52 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Graham, Hunt and Dixon are all similar ages to DeSean and Maclin. So maybe you feel like our defensive starters are currently set, so we need to add more youth as back-ups?

    I still disagree, it’d be one thing if there was a sure fire can’t miss prospect on the DL, but really – it doesn’t sound like there is. It sounds like we’re looking at this draft to fill needs rather than talent, and I’m not sure they are as big of needs as everyone else thinks. Okay LB is – but I think it’s only a need in the sense that they have a lack of talent there, I tend to think in todays NFL you can get away with that though.

    If the team is cutting ties with Brandon Graham, sure, by all means, we probably have a glaring need there – with Juqua Parker gone. But if they think he still has something, I don’t think it’s a anymore glaring a need than Jason Avant and his DL-ish speed.

    Really the team needs to find the best player available – I just happen to think it’ll be a WR. If that’s not the case – fine.

  61. 61 Mac said at 9:48 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    If Blackmon falls in my lap @ 15 I’m pulling the trigger without hesitation.


    Wright, is interesting, but still pass (not worth it for this team at that level) in my opinion.

  62. 62 Skeptic_Eagle said at 10:32 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    I believe there is more lip service paid to Coples fall and “lackluster” senior season than we’ll actually see reflected on draft day. He’s not the athletic freak Julius Peppers or Mario Williams is at that size, but offers a bit more in versatility, in terms of what you mentioned about him playing from the inside. Interior DL that can beat their matchup and disrupt the pocket seem to be more in demand with the proliferation of spread concepts, and I think that will bear out in the first 10 picks next month. If Coples is there to pick, I’d hope the Eagles braintrust would pull the trigger in a heartbeat. I think as with most drafts, the offensive skill positions are going to go lower than most media project. The notion of Justin Blackmon at #4 overall seems a bit whimsical. I could easily see K. Wright as the first WR off the board up to Buffalo, and Blackmon tumbling down the round after that. I don’t rate Ingram as highly as you do, apparently. He’s got a good first step, and is obviously very athletic but doesn’t seem a heady player, and his lack of defined position is troubling. He’s also not terribly overwhelming, physically. I think there is a lot of bust potential for Ingram.

    I basically agree with you about Kuechly’s projection, if not his value. A non-rush 4-3 LB is not going to go in the top 10. I don’t feel as strongly about his special ability as a player, though. He’s not a player that made a lot of plays behind the line, in any form–whether through sacks or tackles for loss on ballcarriers. I’d love to see a breakdown of what distance from the LOS his tackles were, and what % were 5+. He’s also not a coverage linebacker, capable of running with any of the elite TEs, in the way maybe Zach Brown figures to be, if he can just find a Wizard LB coach to provide him the heart he needs to get onto the field. I don’t think the NFL pays a top 10 premium for “competence”.

  63. 63 Matthew Butch said at 10:50 AM on March 27th, 2012:

    Good by stev smit.

    The one thing I will say is that he helped Vince Freaking Young beat the Giants.