Antonio Dixon
Posted: April 11th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 125 Comments »I wrote yesterday that if DT Antonio Dixon puts it all together in the new system, Mike Patterson better watch out. A couple of people wondered about that comment. Hyperbole?
No.
Dixon was a good backup early in 2010. Then Brodrick Bunkley got hurt and Dixon took over his starting spot. He started off red hot. Here are my game notes from the first 3 starts. Well, technically he was a backup vs SF, but Bunk got hurt so Dixon played most of the game.
vs SF – DIXON — Good game. Took over for Bunk early on and played well. Had 4 solo tackles and a sack. Played the run well. Shed block on opening drive and tackled Gore for minimal gain. Showed great hustle on screen pass to chase Gore down on the opposite side of the field. Penalty wiped out play, but Antonio ran really well for a guy his size. Plus, one of the knocks against him when WAS cut him was hustle/conditioning. Slanted to the inside on 2nd Qtr run and held Gore to a short gain. His performance has me less nervous about Bunk’s injury.
vs ATL – DIXON — Started at RDT. Played well. Finished with 3 tackles. Showed good hustle when chasing a screen from behind. That tackle forced 3rd/1, which we stuffed. Hustled down the LOS to tackle Turner on run play. Gave up 4 yards. Pushed G back into Ryan on 3rd Qtr pass play. Ball got out, but pass was incomplete. Just shoved LT Sam Baker out of his way on pass play in late 3rd. Didn’t really get much pressure, but it was fun to watch. Antonio was stout at the POA, but also hustled throughout the game. Good stuff.
vs TEN – DIXON — Started at RDT. Dixon started his second game in place of Brodrick Bunkley. Dixon was outstanding. I wrote in my preview that he could be in for a big game because the blockers he would face were the weak links on the Titans’ line. That’s exactly what happened. Dixon overpowered the LG and C time after time. He was very disruptive. Dixon had a couple of tackles-for-loss. He tied for the team lead with six solo tackles. He batted down two passes. He drew a holding call on an early run play. Are you getting the picture? Dixon was a force to be reckoned with. The matchup favored him and he took advantage of it.
Drove the LG back on a run play and drew a holding call in the process. Got a sack in the mid-1st when he drove back his blocker and just engulfed Collins. Pulled him to the ground hard. Deflected a pass in the mid-2nd. It fell incomplete. Disrupted run play when TEN was backed up by their GL. Drove the LG backward and helped stuff CJ for a loss. Batted down a pass in the late 3rd. Disrupted a screen pass. Couldn’t tackle the RB, but slowed him enough to limit the play. Blew up a 4th Qtr run by driving the C backward. Shed him and tackled CJ. Blew up another 4th Qtr run by driving the C into the backfield. Antonio and Sims got CJ for a big loss. Got moved off the ball by a double team on a 4th Qtr run. That led to CJ’s best inside run of the day. Got in on a tackle of CJ on a run in the mid-4th Qtr. Took the blocker and flowed to the ball. Shed him and joined Cole in the tackle.
In those 3 games, Dixon totaled 14 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 pass deflections, and a TFL. Dixon’s play dipped after that. He still was a solid DT who showed big time flashes, but he didn’t have the same kind of production. As we all know, the key to being a good player is consistency. And that was Dixon’s biggest challenge.
The system change for Dixon was tough. Suddenly he wasn’t playing 2-gap. He was now told to fire off the ball and be disruptive. Dixon has the quickness off the ball to do that, but it takes time to adjust to that new style of football. I think Dixon also had to adjust to Jim Washburn’s “play all out” style. That requires DL to go 100 mph on every snap, knowing that they will come out of the game after 4 or 5 plays. Then rest, go back in, and repeat. Some guys adjust well to a platoon system. Others take time.
Dixon lists at 6-3, 322. I’d love to know if he’s lost weight since Wash came in or is still basically the same size. He carries that weight well and does hustle on the field. Part of Dixon’s game is power so you don’t want him getting too small.
I think Dixon can be a good starting DT in the Wide-9, but we have yet to see that. Dixon was very up and down last year. I did think his best game was the one vs SF when he got hurt. It was as if the light had finally come on for him, only to be snuffed out by an injury.
If Dixon plays up to his full potential and adjusts to the Wide-9, he will take Patt’s starting job. That’s no insult to Patt. He’s been a highly underrated player his whole career. Dixon just has more natural talent. The thing to understand here is that Dixon may not play up to that potential. He’s got to show up in good shape for the mini-camps. He needs to play well at Lehigh. I don’t think Dixon is a full lock to make the team. Dixon is shooting for Patt’s job, but Derek Landri is shooting for Dixon’s job.
Wash needs DTs that can be disruptive. Dixon has 3 career sacks and 5 career TFLs. Landri played in 34% of the Eagles snaps last year and had 2 sacks and 8 TFLs. That is disruptive DT play. Dixon needs to show serious progress to keep his job, let alone make a push for Patt’s. Like I said earlier, it did appear that the light was starting to come on last year when he did get hurt. I am really curious to see if Dixon can have a breakthrough year. He has the size, strength, burst, and talent to do that and thrive in the new system. Now it is up to him to show us what he can do.
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Draft notes are up at ScoutsNotebook on CB Josh Norman and a pair of Pitt DL. All 3 guys could be Eagles targets.
Matt Alkire decided to take the Wonderlic. See how that turned out.
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Someone asked yesterday about NT/UT roles in the Wide-9 vs other schemes. The primary jobs are the same in all 4-3 defenses. The difference lies in a couple of things. If you play 2-gap instead of 1-gap, that is a huge difference. The UT still lines up in the same place. He just comes off the ball and plays the run first instead of attacking into the backfield.
The other difference is the type of players you have. In 2010 Patt was our NT and Dixon the UT. Dixon was huge for UT and isn’t a natural pass rusher. Dixon is now a NT in Wash’s system.
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For the anti-Dan Snyder fans…enjoy. Very funny.
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Couple of questions…
Can Dontari Poe play UT for us? Yes. I think he’s a more natural projection at NT, but he’s got the athleticism to play UT. Since Wash likes his guys to get to the QB, Poe would have to do that enough to keep the job. I don’t think you take Poe at 15 and project him to UT. I think you plan on him as a NT and then see if he can handle the other spot.
Could Luke Kuechly slide to 32, as he did in a recent mock? Highly doubtful, but possible. Ray Lewis is a Hall of Fame MLB. He’s a living legend. He last played in the Super Bowl in 2000. Why then? DTs Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa dominated the LOS. They shut down running games. Lewis is great, but still just a MLB. Games are won on the LOS. Kuechly is “just a LB”. Those guys are devalued in the NFL today.
I think some team is likely to jump on Luke in the 20s if he does fall that far. He just becomes too good of a value pick at that point.
As for Fletcher Cox, I know for a fact that multiple teams have him rated as a Top 10 player. Sadly, I don’t know if the Eagles are one of those team. I have serious doubts about Cox getting to pick 15. Teams behind us that have met with him are discussing trade scenarios.
I do not know if any team has Luke rated in the Top 10. Everyone loves Luke, but because he’s a LB (that doesn’t rush the passer) there isn’t as much buzz on him. He has supreme value to the Eagles because we need what he does well…tackle. Most other teams have functional MLBs and don’t want a tackler. They want a playmaker. Luke is a nice sedan when most people want a sports car. Personally, I’m hoping to ride around in a brand new K-car in a couple of weeks.
i, for one, hope to see tommy rolling in his brand new K-car.
you’ll need a pair of those sunglasses that you sell to help block the haters, though.
Good thing I’ve got the sunglasses connections, huh?
A nice reliant automobile
Antonio could be a beast if he plays to his potential. I hope Washburn gets under his skin and gets that production. I remember watching him VS the cowboys two years ago on the goalline just split the Cowboys G/C like they weren’t even there and make the play in the backfield. As for Luke, the Eagles need to either target him and get him, or use one of their seconds on a SAM. Luke has all the makings of being a special player. His stats and intangibles are off the charts. He could play SAM for a couple years and then slide to the middle, when Demeco leaves. Chaney can’t be trusted. I would love Rolle/Ryans/Kuechly, with Clayton/Matthews/Chaney backing up. I think the Eagles should just sit tight and let Luke fall to them. I wouldn’t mind Sany/Boykin with their 2nds and Wolfe with their 3rd. That would follow the BPA scenario and add some quality players.
BTW…Antonio is a beast in Madden 2012!!!
Let’s hope that is true in real life as well.
Love the Antonio Dixon write-up!
How much does our DE’s ability to play UT in obvious passing situations (Graham, Cole) factor in? McDermott used Graham quite a bit inside and Graham, if healthy, will have the quickness to beat guards off the snap. I don’t think we want Babin/Hunt/Tapp playing inside too much. Can Graham be an effective UT, at least on a limited basis?
Wash prefers DTs and DEs staying in their base roles most of the time and then just moving them around as a change-up. McD and JJ both embraced playing DEs inside in the Nickel/Dime on a regular basis. Teams had success running on that look. I think Dallas killed us with the draw play in the spread back in 2009.
At some point, you do want your best players on the field in critical downs. Graham could get snaps at DT in some sub-packages. He did look good there as a rookie.
What’s your opinion of the Giants pursuing Keith rivers? I can’t imagine Kuechly dropping past pick 25, some team will try and trade up to get him. Kuechly doesn’t seem much of a pass rusher so it is possible to see him drop in the draft, James Laurinaitis and Paul Pozlozny(sp?) fell to the 2nd round in their drafts. It would be irresponsible for the Eagles to let Kuechly drop to #32. Last year we benefited from Mark Herzlich at MIKE.
Can Brandon Graham play UT in this scheme? He’s listed as 270, which isn’t ideal weight for a UT, but I could see it happening in pass rushing situations- Babin, Jenkins, Graham, Cole.
For some reason I kind of feel bad for Snyder in that story. A guy is insecure about his height and some guy brings it up and pokes fun about it. Also the pictures make him out to be just an average Joe Schmo, he doesn’t look like a billionaire who owns a professional sports team.
I could never feel sorry for a guy owning a NFL team. Geez, I’d be happy to ‘only’ own a VIP lounge at the Linc…!
Keith was a terrific NFL prospect, but injuries have kept him off the field or slowed him down. Only played in 35 of 64 possible games. Still talented, but can you count on him after he missed all of 2011 with a wrist issue?
Covered Graham in the response above.
I don’t believe in picking on people for height. I’m 5’9/5’10-ish. I’ve got short friends and tall ones. Only is a big deal when guys get weird about it. Snyder clearly isn’t 5-9. Why lie?
I tell people I’m 5’9 when I’m actually 5’7.75. I guess I’m 5’9 with shoes on. 🙂
I didn’t know this before, but the heights listed for NBA players are their heights with shoes. Dwight Howard is actually 6’10. Lebron James is 6’7. Your boy Gordon Hawyard is 6’6.5 w/o shoes and is listed as 6’8 🙂
I guess people lie about their height because they feel as though they won’t be respected as much or taken seriously. I feel bad for him because he went out of his way to lie about this. It shows weakness and insecurity.
I used to say 6’2″ for football, where you want to sound more stocky, and 6’3″ for basketball, where you want to sound taller. I’m probably in between.
Team weigh-ins can be a joke. That makes the combine numbers much more interesting.
T
A nice Sedan?….such sacrilege…how dare you sir
A very nice sedan?
Maybe he would prefer the British vernacular of “saloon car?”
Why do you feel Cox wont be a bust like Bunkley was? Bunkley had a great combine and stellar record breaking collegic stats.
I agree with the other guys who want Kuetchdillac, stick with an american luxury classic that gets the job done and never goes out of style.
Our biggest weakness is when RBs break the LOS, and TE’s get open. At least with Kuetch we’d have some serious talent at LB. what if Ryans cant get back to 100% from his injury, or worse gets injured. Does anyone think RB turner runs over Kuetch from Atl redzone territory and takes it to the house? Our DL is good enough, pick up Wolf or some other dude in the 2nd with Wash’s blessing and his coaching excellence should be factored in. great coaches dont need to rely on blue chip players, and thats why Mudd put together a terrific oline last year, and will do so again this year.
Sadly, I dont think Kuetch is available at 15. hope we can trade up to get him, and it doesnt cost too much.
First, I don’t think Bunkley was a bust. He had a wasted rookie year in 2006, but that was due to his Cheetos diet while holding out.
Bunk was a good 2-gap DT in 2007 and 2008. We had Top 10 run defenses in part because of him. Re-watch the Giants playoff win and you’ll see Bunk controlling the middle.
Bunk wasn’t as good in 2009, but still played the run well. He got hurt in 2010.
Bunk never developed into a playmaking DT. Part of that is on him, but part is due to the fact he was used as a 2-gap player. Bunk was a 1-gap DT at FSU. He flew off the ball and blew plays up. We did that in 2006, but changed sometime either in the summer of 2007 or in the season itself. No one has ever come right out and explained the switch.
Bunk just got a big deal from the Saints because they value his run D. He can shed blocks and clog the middle.
Bunk is strange in that he was drafted when Jenkins was in place when we drafted him, therefore he would have been projecting how he would fare in his 2-gap system despite coming from a 1-gap system. He was and is a force in such a system in all but obvious passing downs. That he was and isn’t a force in passing situation is disappointing but his failings cannot be projected onto Cox. That said, I want Keuch more, only his playing position prevents him from being a sure fire top 10 pick.
Teeny-tiny Snyder. Teensy, weensy Snyder. Itty, bitty Snyder. Pocket Napoleon. The Littlest Owner. The Micro-manager. The dormouse in the room.
So was the Haynesworth contract just compensating?
Now that’s funny stuff.
And hmmm…good question.
lol @ The Micro Manager
Agreed! and I like thinking of Dan Snyder “climbing up the water spout.”
Maybe you have said this before and I have just missed it, but what would you say Kuechly’s ceiling is? Most of the time when you talk about Cox, you talk about how Cox has the potential to be a special, elite player. For Kuechly, usually you call him a very consistent and reliable player. You also talk about in the context of not being a playmaker per se (“He has supreme value to the Eagles because we need what he does well…tackle. Most other teams have functional MLBs and don’t want a tackler. They want a playmaker.”) You’re obviously not saying that as a slight to Kuechly, but most of the time you talk about him, I am left wondering if his ceiling is a lot lower than a guy like Cox.
Again, don’t get me wrong, I would be ecstatic about Kuechly, and the positive spin to my comment is that I get a sense from you that Cox has a larger bust potential than Kuechly, but I wanted to hear your thoughts in comparing both of their ceilings and if I’m just misinterpreting your analysis of the two.
Tough question. Some people have compared Luke to Brian Cushing. I think Brian was more of an explosive playmaker in college. Still, that’s not a bad comparison. Some have compared Luke to Sean Lee. I think Luke could be a better version of him.
Another interesting name would be Karlos Dansby. He was 6-3, 247 at the Combine. Has played ILB and OLB. Can cover or play the run. Both guys ran 4.58. Luke was much stronger in the upper body and had a higher VJ (38 to 35).
You had me at Sean Lee 🙂
If Luke is a sedan, can he atleast be a Taurus SHO or Buick Grand National or something? A k-car? Really, that’s just unnecessary. I pass sports cars on the highway in my SHO all the time, I’d be much happier with that kind of results than a k-car. Might as well call him a mini-van Tommy (unless it’s a 10-second turbocharged dodge caravan, that would be ok)
K-car was used because of Kuechly (K) and also because I was curious how many people would even know what the heck that was. I’m sure younger posters are wondering what the heck that crazy old Lawlor dude is even talking about.
Luke can be a nice Audi sedan or Taurus SHO or whatever you like. All I demand are good cupholders.
OK, it’s all coming together. The original minivan (dodge caravan) was built on the K-car chassis… so when I think K-car my mind immediately jumps to minivans. K-cars and minivans can be cool in an independently quirky, fiercely virginal kind of way.
Used to be a chevy astro in my neighborhood that was all pimped out as a drag racer.
This made me laugh. Thanks for sharing.
No prob! Tommy, you’re the best in the biz 🙂
That’s awesome. I’d like to shake that guy’s hand.
I only know from the Song, “if I Had a million Dollars” .
Vick can’t do everything himself when he doesn’t have the weapons to throw to and it’s widely known the commish gives the thumbs up for the refs to look the other way when it comes to players haveing permission to do as they wish with Vick. He does the best he can given the circumstances. If we add Fleener and Hemingway along with Vick finally getting an offseason everything would change; includeing the hits. Hemingway is used to playing with the closest QB to Vick, in terms of style of play in college, with Dennard Robinson and Is basically groomed with the right chemistry for Vick. Vick is like night and day better of a passer, football IQ, decision maker, with vision, confidence, working the pocket and knowing how to slight D up compared to Robinson though. Junior would shine when it comes to getting in place & being on the same page as Vick when there’s a hence of pressure, he’s used to it & would be way more prepared then any other receiver. Vick could make Hemingway look like a Pro Bowler & vice versa. Haveing a WR 225 lbs, almost 6’1, who plays faster than his timed 4.48 40, has great hands, is strong, can get off the LOS, create some space, create YAC, athletic and a high football IQ with so much untapped abilities would flourish aside Vick. Vick hasn’t had a hidden gem like this ever b4.
Fleener on the other hand would very possibly come right in and be a Pro Bowler that could help with his height, hands, speed, leaping ability, athleticism, getting off the LOS, RZ and easy TD’s. They’re both hard workers and adding them with Celek, Maclin and Shady in the RZ as well as anywhere will keep the O moveing, scoring, preventing Vick from injuries and most importantly make the D’s afraid which will also make the O along with Vick the best in the NFL. If you shoot 4 & demand(in yourselves) the #1 O & D, Ither do it or come close, you should win the SB.
I like Fleener and Hemingway a lot. I’m sure Vick would love them.
We’re not Getting Fleener. Let’s just hope the Giants don’t get him, they need a TE in a big way since their starter is projected out due to season ending surgery.
“Vick can’t do everything himself when he doesn’t have the weapons to throw to”
I consider Maclin, DeSean, and Celek to be decent players. Maybe he could use a more physical slot receiver and a guy that is a consistent red zone threat, but you make it sound as if he’s been playing with James Thrash and LJ Smith
P.S. I’m still not buying that Dixon is more talented than Patterson, but that’s ok ; )
Patt has experience. He played a ton at USC. He was a 1-gap DT here for a couple of years. He bulked up and played 2-gap. Now he’s back to the old ways.
Patt isn’t special physically, but he’s tough and strong and plays with a real sense of purpose. He doesn’t care if you’re bigger, stronger, or more athletic. He will fight you until the whistle blows.
Patt isn’t special physically, but DT is a spot where toughness is a huge factor and not many guys can match him in that area. I don’t know if Dixon will ever catch up in this area.
I never feel bad for Snyder in any way. The fact that they let him buy the Redskins by not meeting the criteria at the time makes it an extremely fishy situation from the beginning.
The 49ers are looking to take the only pure RZ weapon with the 30th pick in TE Fleener I just read, while they allready have the #1 TE. That should be illegal it would guarantee them a few Super Bowls in the next 10 yrs. It was saying with the rules favoring the O skill players over the DB’s it will be nearly impossible for the DB’s to stop Fleener in the RZ matchups without haveing a flag thrown. I think we have to target Fleener and pick up a couple draft picks. They also say the Giants at 32 want him, but I’m more worried about the 49ers. It seems like if any team that’s good enough to make the play offs get him they’ll win it all. No one can stop him in the.RZ. That’ll be messed up if the 49ersget him. 2 amazing TE’s they’d make the Pats TE’ look week. I can’t believe on PE Dave’s looking at all the little pieces and saying what do we “REALLY” need and mentioning Barron. He should give the 49ers a speech and tell them that they allready have the best TE and they don’t need TD’s.
I’d rather see him on the 49ers than the Giants. Eli works well with TEs. Guys like Boss and Paulsan have torched us. Could you imagine if they had Coby Fleener along with Cruz and Nicks?
Here’s where they talk about Fleener at the bottom they mention Giants and SF(Harbough) http://nflsoup.com/?p=22395
Bengals need CBs..we need LB depth…why not trade Asante for Rivers straight up?It’s a low risk high reward deal for the iggles.
isnt rivers always injured? that seems like a pretty high risk to me…
Why would they take on Asante’s large contract when they can draft a CB with one of their two 1st round draft picks? I also think they would have cut Rivers this year if some team hadn’t been willing to trade for him.
They have the cap space and Asante is a top tier CB..let’s not forget that..plus when was the last time a 1st rd CB had a huge impact? J smith did nothing last yr and Peterson had highlights as a returner…not a DB..Asante is a known commodity…a draft pick is not….
Devin McCourty made the probowl his rookie year. If Cincinnati was a veteran team that was on the verge of a championship, I could see them trading for Asante and overlooking a CB in the 1st round. But Cincinnati is a young team led by Andy Dalton, AJ Green, Jermaine Gresham, Geno Atkins, and Rey Maualuga, Carlos Dunlap. They need young guys to replace the starters like Pacman Jones, Cedric Benson, Reggie Nelson
Rivers is already a Giant, and the Bengals signed Newman….
I visited a happy place today… the Eagles had drafted Keuchwalker this year and the Honey Badger in 2013… all the pieces came together in sweet harmony producing a Top 5 defense for years to come.
Then I came back to reality and realized… even if we don’t get either one of those guys we still have DeMeco Ryans and some young up and comers at S… Not too shabby.
I was thinking something similar last night. Like no matter how please/displeased I am with the draft, how little impact it makes immediately, we still get:
1. DeMeco Ryans
2. A chance to see the real Brandon Graham
3. Jaiquawn Jarrett as a potential player (we’re not expecting much)
4. DRC as an outside corner
(and these might be a stretch, but the development of whoever you like out of Clay Harbor, Nate Allen, Riley Cooper, Curtis Marsh, Danny Watkins …)
Yep, lots of reasons to look forward to the coming season of Eagles football. Hopefully at least a handful of these young guys will show some real development from proper time in the weight room, and our crew of great coaches, specifically Washburn, Mudd, and Bowles.
I may be odd, but I can get excited about any of these young guys developing into play-makers.
Tommy and everyone:
Does anyone else think it’s significant that the defensive guru we dreamed of landing, Steve “This is the Dawning of the Age of Spagitarius” Spagnuolo, went to a team with cap issues and yet still signed probably the 2 best free agent LB’s, Lofton and Hawthorne? In other words, at a time when the middle of the field is becoming a bigger target for QB’s, this DC we admire so much clearly prioritized signing 2 star LB’s.
Assuming that Spags really is the defensive maestro we think he is, and that he would be ahead of the trends, could this suggest that LB’s are starting to become more highly valued? Does this justify the Eags potentially making SAM a bigger priority than it would normally be?
Possible. We don’t know who was behind the LB signings. Loomis? Payton? Spags? That GM and HC have been together a while. They have definite ideas on how things should be done. Maybe Spags did push for the LBs. Just doesn’t fit his M.O. He’s normally all about the DL and that’s an area where I think the Saints still need help.
Maybe Spags loves the DL already there. I don’t. The Saints had 33 sacks last year and the team leader was SS Roman Harper. Factor in that they played with a good lead for much of the year, meaning other teams were in passing mode. Not impressive. If anyone can fix the DL, it probably is Spags. We’ll see.
And the Eagles just might value SAM more than you think. We’ll find out for sure in 2 weeks.
*light bulb* … Sounds like one of those hints that Spadaro drops.
FYI…Saints DL had 17.5 sacks last year. Babin had 18. Crazy.
The but how many outside ACL’s and Concussions? those are the real Saints stats
That just puts a big ole smile on my face 🙂
Posted this in a previous thread, but what do people think of this as a plan if Cox and Kuech are gone at 15?
#15 – Trade picks 15 and 51 to CLE for #22 and 37
#22 – TE Coby Fleener
#37 – Trade to NE for picks #48 & 93 (Patriots need a CB and a WR and this puts them in good position to target Janoris Jenkins or one of Jeffery, Randle or Sanu)
#46 – LB Lavonte David
#48 – CB Brandon Boykin
#88 – DT Derek Wolfe
#93 – WR Joe Adams
The Browns have quite a few holes, the biggest of which comes in the shape of offensive skill players. If they take Richardson at #4, then a WR is the next logical option. This gives them the opportunity to make a play at Kendall Wright without having to compromise their other needs by sacrificing later picks.
The Patriots don’t have many holes, but they need a DE, CB and probably a WR. Assuming they address the defensive line in the first round, they’ll be looking for one of the other two positions in the second. CB Janoris Jenkins and WRs Alshon Jeffery, Reuben Randle and Mohamed Sanu are all going to come off the board in the early 2nd round and I could see the Pats targeting one of them and looking to move up.
These Eagles picks seem to address pretty much all of the (admittedly minor) needs that we have; RZ threat, SAM, slot corner, backup UT and slot WR. I don’t know enough about the late round guys to mock any further, but I’d be pretty happy with a start like this.
Why did you put Adams in their? We re-signed DJax to a long-term deal and if anything we need more players that can go over the middle…It would be nice to have another speedster to make it even harder on defenses but the only player we have on our team (right now) that can go over the middle is Avant.
&& the more I think about it, the more I think that Kuechly will be there at 15 if we want him.
I had Adams as a slot receiver. He’s got good quickness and doesn’t seem afraid to take a hit over the middle. His hands aren’t as sure as you’d like at this stage, but you’d have him sitting behind Avant for a season or two so he’s got time to learn and in the interim he can probably help out in the return game.
Couple of quotes that I’ve found about him that might be relevant:
“He has a professional understanding of how to run routes at his size and stem off the ball to gain separation. He is a very polished receiver, and his athletic ability should serve him well at the next level working out of the slot.”
“Very elusive once the ball gets to him. Always stays moving, wiggles around, he runs through arm tackles, Defenders struggle to mirror him when they meet head to head. Not sharp cuts like a Rueben Randle, but his ability to accelerate after the cuts make him hard to bring down.”
“Adams is a very good slot guy and can be big in a system with a deep threat that can stretch the zones out for him.”
http://m.nfl.com/combine/profile/2532782/joe-adams/
http://nfldraftseason.com/2012-nfl-draft-player-profiles/joe-adams-nfl-draft-wr-arkansas/
From Cleveland’s perspective pick #22 and pick#37 might be too much to give up to acquire Kendall Wright. They would be better off settling for Hill or trading for Mike Wallace.
That’s why I had them taking one of our 2nd rounders as well; they’re essentially moving back 14 places in the second to move up 7 in the first – doesn’t seem too steep. Not necessarily saying it would happen, but I thought it was reasonably believable.
According to the draft value chart the eagles would be giving up too much with the 15th and the 51st. Cleveland would net the equivalent of the 93rd (late 3rd) and 234 (late 7th) picks with that trade. Ideally you would only trade if its equivalent or you are gaining value
If somebody is gaining value then somebody else is losing value – there must be some reason those trades happen. The reason is that there’s nobody at 15 that we want, but there is a guy later in the first.
I agree that the value chart number isn’t exactly equal, but if there are guys you’re targeting, it’s a way to move around and get them. Maybe a team gets desperate and really wants to move up, but I don’t see anybody that stands out at 15 that anybody would want to give a 1 and a 2 to move up for, which is what it would take to match up on the value chart.
I really like Fleener, and if there’s a way we can move back and take him without reaching from 15 then I’d go for it, regardless of whether the trade is perfect value.
I’d be pretty thrilled with that haul, and I don’t have a Fleener woody like a lot of guys here do either. The fact it would take two days to unfold would be excruciating, but in the end, those five guys are all ones we on this board and BGN covet, and they could all contribute in some small way immediately even if they don’t pan out as great players down the road.
Not getting my heart set on it. But it does show that there’s potential value in trading back this year.
I like all those picks accept we might need a DE relatively early in the draft. You’re 100% right I believe that if we don’t get Fleener our offense will be like its been and we won’t get TD’s as well as move the ball fluently in the air which will make lots of games hard to win especially if we make it to the playoffs. Fleeners the cleanest and purest TE/WR game changer, especially in the RZ, available in the entire draft. If we don’t get him it appears two NFC teams are most likely to draft him and since that’s our weakest area on offense I highly doubt we will get by the 49ers who allready have one of the best TE in the NFL or the Giants who allready have established RZ threats as well. There’s no way to get to the Super Bowl if we don’t have a RZ threat and they have a couple. Today’s NFL caters to the offense and getting TD’s. This article should more than prove your point: http://nflsoup.com/?p=22395
You’re 100% right as you can see, Thanks
Two yrs ago the Eagles moved up 11 spots to get Graham at pick 13 and they gave up two 3rd rd picks; but they had the choice and were deciding between that or giving up one 2nd rd pick. Since the Patriots need a CB, there familiar with Asante(have been missing the turnovers he created since he left), he’d liked playing there and is willing to renegotiate his contract for less money. We could trade him and the 15th pick for their 27th and 31st pick. They’d be moveing up 12 picks(27 to 15) which would essentially be the same compensation as the trade we made 2 yrs ago; only difference is they’d be moveing up 1 more spot but the 13th is worth slightly more than 15. So essentially they’d cross each other out and it would be exactly the same compensation. But instead of them giving the 2nd rd pick(which was equivalent to the two 3rd rd picks in 2010 we had the choice of) we’d basically be giving them that(which is btwn 33 and 63) and Asante for their 31st pick. We could always move up a little from the 27th pick(maybe give up a fifth rd and move to 24-25 and take Fleener) then move from 31 to 40 and get that teams pick which should be around 90 and take DE Vinny Curry. Then at 46, 51, 88 and the early 90’s still get the rest of those players we need (that you’ve mentioned). We’d still have our 4th, 5th(from that other team) and three 6th rd picks. We could get WR Junior Hemingway in the 5th or 6th he’s 6’1 225 and runs a 4.48, played at Michigan and could also help out in the RZ. He’s built a like Anquan Bolden, good hands, strong, athletic and is used to helping out the most athletic QB in college right now, Denard Robinson and could become a big asset getting off the line, creating separation, catching everything and could run over or around people.
Hope we dominate the draft. Need to this year and we need Fleemer bad not 49ers or Giants.
I actually quite like this – just not convinced the Pats would go for it. Rumour is that they’re looking to move up for a good pass rusher, though, so if Ingram or Coples slide to 15 we might be a target.
I can see Poker Face doing something like this. Lots of really good players in later rounds…
Good news! Since the Giamts just traded for a LB (Rivers), Luke might now fall to our 2nd round pick… 😉
I seriously doubt it. No way Kuechly falls to our 1st second round pick. By then someone will have already drafted him/traded to pick him.
Irony, you know?! 😉
They still need a MIKE
Boley/Kuechly/Rivers would be a decent LB crew. Kiwanuka could go back to being a DE and their backup LB.
Rivers is a run stuffer. He probably will take over Kiwi’s spot and Kiwi will go back to DE. Boley and Goff will probably be their 2 other starting LB’s.
Devin Hester and Randall Cobb were taken in the 2nd round despite being unspectacular at their other positions. Do you think Joe Adams could go in the 2nd round. People have him pegged as a 5th round prospect.
Wish we would have signed Jason Jones in FA. He would have fit well as the 2nd UT.
I still think we need to go after Kuechly in the draft. Besides DeMeco, our LB corps is still poor. If anything happened to DeMeco & he gets injured, we’d be back at square 1…Which is in need of a good LB. Which is why we should definitely draft Kuechly if he’s available. If we don’t draft Kuechly, and DeMeco get’s hurt, the last thing I want is another later round rookie LB trying to be the savior.
Been saying this since we traded for Ryans.we have NO depth at LB….we NEED luke more than cox..I can’t believe this is not more obvious to iggles fans
Thank you! I couldn’t figure out why Tommy didn’t consider this. I think Andy may be handing him PBR to provide some smoke! 😉
You’re right that we need more depth at LB, but you can certainly still get very quality depth in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. In the first round, you have to look for the guy that can provide the biggest impact long term. Kuechly may still be that guy, but to me, you don’t draft Kuechly because of a need for depth if you think Cox will be the better player.
Both will be great players..but LK also fills a HUGE hole on the defense…how often do you get a chance to draft a blue chip guy..who fills a great need..and you pass on him.if luke is there at 15 and iggles pass on him..they have no way of explaining why….the only knock on luke is he doesn’t rush the QB..hello!!!…we run the wide 9….our LBs don’tget to pass rush…they do have to tackle and cover…guess what Luke excels at both….scouting report says best cover LB to come out in yrs…..just think of the plethora of TE in the league..especially in the NFC…who have the potential to wreak havoc in the passing game……LK40 would put a stop to that on Sundays!…let our DL go destroy the QB…that’s their job..I’ll take luke’s…100+ tackles….few ints and mutiple pass break ups…
Again, I would be very happy with Kuechly. He is a talented prospect that would fit our team well. That being said, I don’t think you can simply say Kuechly over Cox. As Tommy mentioned, a Dlineman will make a much bigger impact than a LBer. On top of that, don’t forget that we would be bringing Luke in as a SAM, not as a MLB, so he would likely have even less of an impact than he would otherwise. Lastly, if we were talking about a one round draft, I would agree that Kuechly fills a need more than Cox, but there are players that can be brought in as SAM LBers (and backup LBers) in the 2nd and 3rd round.
I am trying hard to wrap my head around strengthening one of the already strongest units of our team. In my mind’s eye, there is a void at SAM. I think what you are telling me is that the enhancement of adding Cox would out weigh whatever duct tape we put at SAM.
(gets out chalk board- 7 + 6 = 13…carry the 1…)
No sir, I don’t like it.
It kind of pisses me off that we always out perform NYG on personnel moves yet they still out perform us.
We trade up for Jeremy Maclin, they settle for Hakeem Nicks and he ends up being the better player.
We trade up for Brandon Graham, they settle for JPP, Graham tears his ACL, JPP becomes an all pro.
We steal Steve Smith, they are forced to play Victor Cruz and ends up becoming a probowl receiver.
We draft Ryan Moats they draft Brandon Jacobs in the same round with a lower pick.
We acquire almost the entire Notre Dame defensive line, they acquire the one player from that line that is a probowler.
Our locker room cancer (TO) ruins an entire season, their locker room cancers (Strahan, Shockey, Barber) inspire them to win a superbowl.
I bet Keith Rivers will outperform DeMeco Ryans next year.
Lol. Don’t know if I should laugh or cry at this post?! 😉
Both, simultaneously.
Like the worst kind of food poisoning.
Get out of my head…..lol……nice to know I’m not the only one frustrated by this
We beat them during the season, they win the games that count.
Yeah, this sucks. Thanks for posting it!
The Giants and the Pats played in a big game this year because they have do the best draft evaluation of any team in their conferences, and take the best player on the board rather than draft for need without researching all options and taking what falls.
I disagree. For the past few years, the Patriots have been trading down and stockpiling picks. They’ve hit on a few but have missed on a lot.
Look at their 1st/2nd round picks from their past 5 drafts:
Nate Solder- Solid, but not great. The jury is still out on him.
Ras I Dowling- Hasn’t done anything.
Shane Vereen- Hasn’t done anything
Devin McCourty- Pro Bowler
Rob Gronkowski- All Pro
Jermaine Cunningham- Hasn’t done anything
Brandon Spikes- Solid player, nothing special
Pat Chung- Solid player, nothing special
Ron Brace- Bust
Darius Butler – Bust
Sebastian Vollmer- Got benched in the Super Bowl
Jerod Mayo- Prowbowler
Terrence Wheatley- Bust
Brandon Meriweather- Bust
Laurence Maroney- Bust
Chad Jackson- Bust
In the past 5 years they’ve had 16 picks in the 1st two rounds. They’ve produced 3 pro bowlers, 3 solid players, and 10 busts or guys who haven’t shown anything yet. I’m not saying they’re bad at drafting but they aren’t as good as everyone makes them out to be.
The Giants for instance have had to settle for prospects because the Eagles were more aggressive than them. They hardly received any production from their rookies last year. In 2010 they settled for JPP after the Eagles moved up for Graham. In 2009 they settled for Nicks because the Eagles traded up for Maclin. The rest of their draft picks in the past 5 years have been solid at best. I don’t think Linval Joseph, William Beatty, Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham, or Aaron Ross are better than any of the players we have on our roster at the positions they’re playing.
Praise the Lord!
You’re making your argument by assuming the Giants didn’t think through their good picks (JPP, Nicks), that they just took what was left. Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th round is an example of what Reese has done. Prince A when the Eagles were settling for Watkins and Jarrett. Tom Brady in the 6th was also one you forgot about. There’s no comparison between Reese’s performance and the Eagles team during that period.
yes there is. The point I’m trying to make is that neither the Giants nor the Patriots are much better than the Eagles at drafting.
The only way you can say the Eagles have beat out Reese since he took over for the 2007 draft is by citing DeSean and LeSean, the Eagles’ two great 2nd round picks. The Giants’ top pick during that time has been JPP, followed by Nicks. Overall the Giants’ top and midround picks have performed better. You cited Manningham, who was a 3rd: Eagles took Bryan Smith in the 3rd that year. Ross didn’t turn out well but he wasn’t a head scratcher pick, rather a guy the whole league was high on low first. Beatty was a good second round pick, not a good starting LT but one good enough to win the Super Bowl. Phillips got hurt, Thomas has played to his draft value.
After DeSean and LeSean, Maclin has played at or just beneath his draft value, Celek has been a solid starter picked in the 5th, Kolb was groomed and traded. Not much more to write home about.
Whuch would you take as the first 4 picks
1st- Fletcher Cox
2nd- Lavonte David
2nd- Brandon Boykin
3rd- Dwight Jones
or
1st- “The Walker” T
2nd- Mohammed Sanu
2nd- Brandon Boykin
3rd – Derrick Wolfe
which*
I would go with option 2… but partly because I don’t think Dwight Jones is 3rd round value.
If we walked out of the first three rounds with option 2 that would be a “heckuva” draft.
Option 2..hands down.the walker and Boykins ..too…two huge holes on defense fixed…plus Boykins…may be a special teams ace……
I think Option 2.
That’s not even a contest…2..
No Cox? No Kuechly? No Trade???
Join me in this procastination-fueled rumination, my fellow Lawlorphiles.
deg0ey posted a scenario below where we trade pick #15 to Cleveland if Cox and Kuechly are no longer on the board. Based on how the board breaks, I’d be concerned about even finding a trade partner or at least someone who’d be willing to give up “enough” for us to drop down a few spots.
Let’s say the board were to break roughly as follows (adapted from BGN’s ongoing interactive mock).
1) Luck
2) RG3
3) Kalil
4) Claiborne
5) Richardson
6) Blackmon
7) Ingram
8) Tannehill
9) Cox
10) Upshaw
11) DeCastro
12) Kuechly
13) Coples
14) Brockers
For the moment ignore “fit” for the teams ahead of us, or if it helps preserve your sanity, assume any trades you want in front of us but no Eagles’ trade.
In this scenario, I don’t see an obvious value pick. Absent the traditional Oakland speed-reach because they don’t have a pick or Al Davis (RIP… he would’ve chosen Stephen Hill, right?), and with a below-average OL class we didn’t see the usual run on OT’s, the DL’s have been plucked at relative value. Given this board, here’s ten guys we (and other teams) might consider at 15:
Michael Floyd
Reilly Reiff
Donatari Poe
Jonathan Martin
Mark Barron
Dre Kirkpatrick
Stephon Gilmore
Nick Perry
Whitney Mercilus
Kendall Wright
Does anyone jump out as an obvious pick, or someone you need to jump ahead of the Jets to get? Maybe some team covets Poe, or a desperate team needs a tackle (Reiff?), but on the whole I don’t see a guy who’s worth the resources to move up and acquire that either can’t be had at your original spot or could be replaced with a relative proxy (eg., Sanu instead of Floyd). In other words, if the Eagles had pick #32 (ha!), who on this list would you be scrambling to the phone to trade up for?
I think a scenario like this works two ways for the Eagles – either you accept lesser value than you normally would for the pick, or you suck it up and take a guy you’re not super crazy about taking at 15 and move on.
Personally, if things unfolded like this and I couldn’t swing a deal that picks up at least a high 3rd AND keeps me in Fleener range in the late first, then I would go with Kirkpatrick.
Our 15 is the exact equivalent of Denver’s #25 and #57. We’d pick up a late 2nd rd pick and still put us in front of the 49ers and the Giants who have been linked to Fleener.
With our 46, 51 and 57 we have multiple scenarios:
1. Sit tight and possibly pick up Boykin/Johnson/Jenkins, David/Wagner/Kendricks and Wolfe/Reyes
2. Package the 46 and our 88 and trade down to Indy’s 33 to land anyone of interest who fell out of the 1rst (Curry, Branch, Jones, Gilmore), pick up David/Wagner/Kendricks and Wolfe/Reyes and hope Dwight Bentley falls to the 4th for nickel corner depth
…I have more, but I’m going to eat later suckerz
I guess what I’m asking is who do you think Denver would trade #25 and #57 for to take at #15? Rather than just making a trade in a vacuum, pretend you’re John Elway for a moment. Awesome, huh? Now, who on my list of 10 available players do you think is worth giving up #57 to get?
Using the old draft value chart is a helpful guide (though perhaps antiquated with the new CBA), but what I’m suggesting is that if the draft fell like this, our pick could be worth less than “usual” because the available talent.
Completely understood and I should have provided context, apologies.
The Broncos 2011 transition from a 3-4 base to a 4-3 base D was assisted by the acquisition of Broderick Bunkley from the Eagles. Bunkley had a solid year as a run stuffing 2-gapper DT anchoring the Denver D-line. The Broncos lost Bunkley to the Saints in FA and have been projected to fill that role in the first round.
While the Broncos may prefer to wait and see if Still or Worthy are still around at pick 25 they may be enamored with Poe’s size, versatility and possible ceiling compared to the other DT options available at 25. The Broncos need pressure from their Tackles to let Ayers and Dumervil go hog wild from the edges and hopefully they believe Poe to provide that presence.
They may be a little hesitant to give away that 2nd pick as they would like to get younger in the secondary and they need a RB to pair with McGahee to get him through the season (Moreno is no #2, I can’t believe so many of us wanted him over Shady). Denver still has a 3rd, 2-4ths, an early 5th, and a 6th to find some depth and as a team that made the play for Manning in the offseason, losing in the divisional round of the playoffs in 2011 they may see themselves as just a few pieces away from the SB. Poe could just be worth it.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but thats my pitch if I’m Roseman
Gotcha. I’m hopeful if we found ourselves in this scenario that someone would cough something up and we could move back a few.
I really don’t think the board will fall like this… but as an Eagles fan it’s only natural to think of the worst case scenario.
For what its worth I agree with your draft value chart assessment. The new rookie wage scale would exponentially drive the point value premium to left making our 15 more valuable than the current draft chart. If anything that would make the deal more desirable to the Broncos in an efficient market. Until we get something new, the chart seems a good jumping off point .
Lawlor damn you and your wordpress….I was totally sober prior to posting this my first time…
Completely understood and I should have provided context, apologies.
The Broncos 2011 transition from a 3-4 base to a 4-3 base D was assisted by the acquisition of Broderick Bunkley from the Eagles. Bunkley had a solid year as a run stuffing 2-gapper DT anchoring the Denver D-line. The Broncos lost Bunkley to the Saints in FA and have been projected to fill that role in the first round.
While the Broncos may prefer to wait and see if Still or Worthy are still around at pick 25 they may be enamored with Poe’s size, versatility and possible ceiling compared to the other DT options available at 25. The Broncos need pressure from their Tackles to let Ayers and Dumervil go hog wild from the edges and hopefully they believe Poe to provide that presence.
They may be a little hesitant to give away that 2nd pick as they would like to get younger in the secondary and they need a RB to pair with McGahee to get him through the season (Moreno is no #2, I can’t believe so many of us wanted him over Shady). Denver still has a 3rd, 2-4ths, an early 5th, and a 6th to find some depth and as a team that made the play for Manning in the offseason comming the divisional round of the playoffs in 2011 they may see themselves as just a few pieces away from the SB. Poe could just be worth it.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but thats my pitch if I’m Roseman
I’d go with Kirkpatrick or Gilmore. I prefer Dre.
I would do everything humanly possible to make a trade before making that pick.
Dr. Dre sounds so much cooler than Happy Gilmore!
I think I shall ruminate this over a cup of tea.
Great post.
Keep in mind that Howie’s style isn’t really “see who’s left at our pick.” It’s “identify our targets, and do what it takes to get them.” I suspect they already have their guys identified, the teams they think could try to steal them, and where they need to be to maximize value.
I would take Whitney Mercilus. Or hope that some team desperately wants Dre, Reiff, or Floyd.
I’d get Dre Kirkpatrick and not trade down. Do the Eagles need more mid round picks so they can get more Curtis Marshes and Keenan Claytons? They got em. They need to get their rookie pay scale spoil and reap the benefits of eight losses.
Well, it’s not so much a question of do the Eagles “need” more mid round picks than whether they can actually get any more value if the board played out this way. My hypothesis is that they may not got much value with a trade so, yes I agree – go ahead and make a pick.
In terms of mid round picks we’re talking about trading back in the first round, so as I said, I wouldn’t do it unless the compensation were at least a high 3rd in addition to the late 1st. A high 3rd is a valuable asset as opposed to a “mid round pick.” You could trade it forward for a 2nd next year or package it with a late-rounder to move up and pick another 2nd rounder this year… in essence, you’d use it so you’re NOT taking another Curtis Marsh or Keenan Clayton.
As for “reaping the benefits” of our 8 losses my point in this exercise is that there may not be a benefit to picking at #15 versus picking at #25, let’s say. So if you could drop back and acquire an asset then it makes sense to do so. If you can trade back 10 spots (let’s say) and get an equivalent talent AND an extra pick, then why not?
Right, which is why we want 2013 picks as comp, not more 2012 picks!
K-car.
lol, Im one of those “younger” posters who doesn’t remember the K-car, but theres something stylishly old school about that thing.
I have owned many different cars in my life. There has only been one that I truly did not like at all. A Plymouth Reliant.
I picked this up from facebook/the real nfl talk
The Real NFL TALK This guy was standout Junior at NC State in 2010. After transferring to Wisconsin for the 2011-12 season, he threw 309 passes, completing 225 of them and adding 33 touchdowns while only throwing 4 Interceptions. His ability to throw and run alike is what makes this QB very valuable, during his senior year at Wisconsin he ran for 338 yards and 6 touchdowns. This 6 foot two-hundred four pound QB is projected to go anywhere from the mid-to-late third round to the end of the fourth. Whoever ends up with the guy will end up with a very sound minded Quarterback, Ladies and Gentlemen I give you, Russell Wilson! -Andrew
He could be a developmental or a project, 1.) He’s a mobile QB, AR covets 2.) He’s raw with intangibles 3.) Good competition between Kafka and Edwards this year and added competition in next year’s draft pick.
I’m sure Tommy talked about him a bit, not sure how he feels about him in Eagles camp. Sorry guys, this was off topic.
I for one just can’t wait for the day that we talk about our picks in the draft, and not speculate who we are going to pick. Come on draft day!!!!
Dixon has had endurance problems all his career. He has worked to improve in this area but he is always going to be behind someone with a foundation of better fitness. What the Eagles should (and I suspect have) focused on is getting quality out of a limited number of snaps in rotation. If Dixon starts, he needs to take more breathers, which generally means third down and passing situations.
interesting bruce irvin story: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl–west-virginia-prospect-bruce-irvin-ditches-burglary–drug-game-for-shot-at-nfl.html
pretty interesting story, wonder what the deal is with his most recent troubles, whether thats a warning sign or just an anomaly.