Monday Morning Thoughts

Posted: September 10th, 2012 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 57 Comments »

I have not finished re-watching the game.  Got caught up in watching yesterday’s other games, which were pretty compelling.  The Packers were 15-1 last year, but have now lost 2 in a row at home (Giants in playoffs and Niners yesterday).  The GB defense has some serious issues.  Old pal Kevin Kolb came off the bench and led Arizona to a win.  He played really well, although it was a short stint.  We’ll see how Kevin does after this.  And Peyton Manning looked terrific in his first game as a Bronco.  I’ve never been his biggest fan, but that was fun to watch.

So let’s get back to the Eagles.  First, I want to apologize to the O-line.  I was hard on them yesterday.  Upon further examination, they played better than I thought.  There were breakdowns, but it wasn’t nearly as bad as I expected.  While watching the game, it felt like King Dunlap was a revolving door.  Not the case at all.

Vick was just as much of a problem as he looked yesterday.  Worse, actually.  One of the problems with the game was that he always seemed to be on the move due to pressure.  Re-watch the game and you’ll see that he had a clean pocket at times and felt phantom pressure,  causing him to take off.

You also have to give credit to the Browns.  They didn’t blitz a lot, but had a good wrinkle.  They would delay blitz off the edge.  All the blockers would commit and then suddenly there was a DB or LB coming free.

The gameplan was built around protection.  The Eagles did a variety of things to help out the OL.  The problem was that Vick was still in preseason mode.  He read plays perfectly at times and on others would hesitate and be indecisive.

The INTs were just awful.  Even worse, there were another couple of passes that could have been picked off.  We may have gotten lucky that it was just 4 INTs.

Before we make any sweeping conclusions about Vick, let’s look around the league for some perspective.

Vick … 29-56-317 … 2 TDs, 4 INTs

Brees … 24-52-339 … 3 TDs, 2 INTs

Stafford … 32-48-355 … 1 TD, 3 INTs

Big Ben was just 22 of 40.

Aaron Rodgers threw a terrible INT right to a LB (sound familiar?).

Cam Newton was held to 4 yards rushing on 5 carries.

Vick had a bad game.  No ifs, ands, or buts about it.  Bad.  Before we give up on him we probably ought to see a few more games.  I know that’s the boring thing to say, but really is the wise move.  Vick has too good of a track record to bench him for one crappy game.

That said, he can’t go out there and throw 4 INTs again (barring freakish plays).  Vick made decisions that a good veteran QB shouldn’t.  That’s the biggest and most frustrating aspect.  These weren’t bad luck INTs.  They were “what the hell was he thinking?” INTs.  Can’t have those from a proven vet.

Vick was rusty.  No question about that.  I don’t think the rust was the only problem, though, and that’s the concern.  Next week Vick must play much better.  No one questions this guy’s toughness.  He would run through a brick wall to win.  No one questions his leadership.  You can see his teammates really love him.  Those are important traits, but in 2012 QB is about being an elite passer.  Vick has the ability to be one.  He must play up to his full potential and use his head as much as his legs and arm.

I sure hope he does.

* * * * *

About the run/pass imbalance.  I don’t like it.  I’m not a fan of it.

Here’s my guess as to what Andy was thinking.  He said after the game that they saw some things that they thought they could exploit.  Uh, Andy…don’t we hear that every week?  Ugh.

Anyway…my guess is that Andy wanted to get the rust off of Vick, to work on timing with Vick and the receivers, and to build a lead so that he could then run the ball in the 4th Qtr and get some reps for the young backs.

Anyone who knows Andy’s history knows that his nickname should be double-down.  When something isn’t working, he doesn’t change it.  He doubles down and goes all out.  I’ve likened it in the past to the scene from Tin Cup when Kevin Costner keeps going for the green and won’t lay up.  That’s Andy.  We’re doing it my way.

Vick’s numbers at the half weren’t terrible (17-28 with 1 INT), but you could see he wasn’t comfortable.  Shady had 7 carries in the 1st half.  Andy wanted his points and the way to do that was by throwing.  Andy didn’t get his points and that meant more of the same was coming in the 2nd half.

Vick threw 56 passes.  He was sacked twice.  He ran 4 times (not counting the 3 kneel downs).  That is 62 pass plays.  There were 23 runs.

I don’t like what Andy did, but having followed him for 14 years now, I understood it.  The rust is gone.  There is timing with Vick and the receivers.  Andy never got the points he wanted so that will have to wait for the future.

* * * * *

A couple of guys to mention…

Chas Henry was outstanding.  He averaged 55 yards per punt and had no touchbacks.  He is currently 2nd in the NFL and only by .6 per punt.

Stanley Havili won the FB job this summer.  He had a good opener.  He wasn’t great, but did his job on offense and STs.  I always like it when young guys step up and deliver.  We’ve seen plenty who failed.

* * * * *

The world is very down on Brandon Weeden right now.  His QB rating is 5.1.  I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of such a low figure.  Vick is at 51.  Numerically, Vick’s bad game was 10 times better than Weeden’s yesterday.  That’s hard to wrap your head around.

* * * * *

Jimmy Bama and I did a quick wrap-up show on the game last night.


57 Comments on “Monday Morning Thoughts”

  1. 1 Ryan Jacob said at 12:06 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I’m sorry…but I’ve seen too much of this from Vick. He’s not some young kid that has to be molded any more–he’s 32–and he’s not going to change his stripes. I say cut him and go with Foles. We need to find out what we have so that we can go into the off season and know what needs to be done. Vick isn’t going to win a damn thing playing like that and it’s not like yesterday was the first, second, third, or fourth time that he’s done it. He simply isn’t a good enough decision maker to throw the ball thirty times per game in the NFL.

  2. 2 GermanEagle said at 12:18 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Lol, I knew some people would root for Foles after this game, but cutting Vick?! Thank God you’re not the Eagles GM….

  3. 3 Ryan Jacob said at 12:55 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    He had a good ten game stretch two years ago. Before then and since then, he’s been dog crap unless you’re talking about Vick the runner, which I think we all agree can’t last a whole season at this point in his career and won’t get us to the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl.

  4. 4 D3Keith said at 1:11 AM on September 11th, 2012:

    Cutting him is a ridiculous notion. Cutting him for Foles — this isn’t like when we had Kolb and McNabb and Vick to choose from — is even more ridiculous.

    If it’s determined that Vick is who he is and can’t be changed, then the wise thing to do would be to play to his strengths, of which there are several. Kind of like that one Giants game way back when Reid gave Westbrook 33 carries because the run game was working.

    (see what I did there, tied the day’s two big themes tog … ah forget it)

  5. 5 TommyLawlor said at 12:26 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Vick’s never had a 4 INT game before. What we saw yesterday was him at his worst. That’s why it is important to see a few more games. If he bounces back to form, we’re fine. If he continues to struggle, then we’ll have a serious talk about Nick Foles.

  6. 6 Ryan Jacob said at 1:08 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    He had four against Buffalo last season.

  7. 7 teltschikfakeout88 said at 1:27 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Yep he had 4 pics that day. Threw for over 3 bills. Team had 5 TO’s too. Only difference is we lost that game. Putting in Foles now is the end of the season for us and the end of Reid and company. No way Foles gets us to the playoffs or out of the division for that matter. Vick, may not be everyone’s cup of tea but he is who we hitched our wagon to. The playcalling needs to stop asking him to throw 50 times a game and play a bit more “grind it out” football with Shady and the other backs. We need balance on offense and we need Vick to get his confidence back, head out of his butt, whatever. More games like the Browns and it will be the end of the season and all discussion will centered on what all Eagles fans are experts on….dreaming about next year….Hoping that the D comes up big against the Ravens this week. Go Eagles!!!!

  8. 8 fran35 said at 3:52 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Not sure an early Foles switch doesn’t help Reid’s chances to survive. It gives us an excuse to be mediocre and a reason to keep Reid and mold the yourg guy.

  9. 9 TommyLawlor said at 6:10 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    My mistake. I thought someone said his career high was 3.

  10. 10 Matt Williams said at 12:06 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Tommy, the following observation by justrelax in the Eagles Blog was worth noting.

    “I think we went away from the run game because the refs were calling so damned many penalties – three phantom holding penalties on runs early. Well, two phantom calls and one really iffy one. Shady gained 30 yards on those three plays so that’s a net loss of 60. I think MM got disgusted. If they won’t let you run, then you have to throw.

    That was a horribly refereed game. Goodell should be forced to watch it non-stop until he settles. The refs ruined the product.”

  11. 11 Todd B. said at 12:22 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Interesting theory. But they were disgusted with three holding calls so they all but abandon the run while Vick throws into double and triple coverage all day they are NOT disgusted?

    I think they were just stubborn to a fault. They thought they saw something they could exploit and stuck with it even if the QB wasn’t getting it done.

    I can’t even say they were wrong on that, honestly. If one receiver is double coveraged, then there had to be someone else open. It is just that the QB wasn’t throwing to that guy.

  12. 12 P_P_K said at 8:22 PM on September 10th, 2012:


  13. 13 TommyLawlor said at 12:24 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    JR is smart and that’s an interesting observation.

  14. 14 TheRogerPodacter said at 4:16 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    i came here to ask a similar question. beat to the punch!

    another part of this then becomes a down & distance problem. when first and 10 becomes 1st and 20 and so on, its much more likely we are going to throw than to pass. It is even worse when the penalty comes in a later down. 3rd and 15? maybe a 5% chance of a run there.

  15. 15 Brian said at 12:02 PM on September 11th, 2012:


  16. 16 SteveH said at 5:09 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I think this would be a really legit viewpoint if AR/MM didn’t have such a history already of getting away from the run early. I mean its almost like clockwork really, I think we’re all more surprised when they do keep the run/pass ratio close early on rather than the other way around.

  17. 17 Brian said at 12:06 PM on September 11th, 2012:

    I guess I can accept that. Although, the refs were kinda sticking a bottle in a recovering alcoholic’s face by calling those penalties.

  18. 18 Matt Williams said at 12:09 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    One other off topic comment that I’d like your take on was a post in BGN about DeMarcus Van Dyke.

    “DeMarcus Van Dyke was a 3rd round pick of the Oakland Raiders in the 2011 NFL Draft. He was released yesterday in order to make room for former Eagles Joselio Hanson. Van Dyke draws comparisons to current Eagle’s starter Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. Cromartie is 6’2 182 pounds while Van Dyke is 6’1 187 pounds. Both are extremely athletic and have blazing speed. Cromartie ran a 4.33 40 yd dash at the combine while Van Dyke ran a 4.28 40. The Eagles would greatly benefit from bringing in Van Dyke for a few reasons. Van Dyke could get a chance to learn from Rodgers-Cromartie and be a solid backup in case he gets injured. Also, Van Dyke has enormous physical potential. This move would require the Eagles to release another player, likelyBrandon Hughes. Hughes is a solid special teamer but wouldn’t be missed greatly. It comes as a surprise that Van Dyke cleared waivers in the first place. With a secondary coach as good as Todd Bowles and a chance to learn from some of the games best at his position, the Signing of Van Dyke couldn’t benefit in many ways in the long run. Remember, Van Dyke is only 23 years of age. He has a long way to go to be a starter and may never get there, but if there is a place that it can happen, why not it be here?”

  19. 19 GermanEagle said at 12:22 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    As frustrating as it was watching Vick and the Offense for most of the game, the one reason that should cause hope is that we finally were clutch (basically at the end of both halves) yesterday.
    And I am pretty sure that we would have lost such a game game last year…
    So while I hope that Vick will get his head right I am taking 3 1/2 quarters of ugly football and a W over 3 1/2 quarters of good football before giving the game away (like last year) on any day of the week!

  20. 20 Mac said at 12:33 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    More importantly… our defense (often with their backs to the wall) only gave up 9 points.

    If Vick gets his head even half straight and we run the ball just a little bit more I like our chances.

  21. 21 Bpils said at 5:22 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Exactly. Every point that the Browns scored was either directly (pick 6) or indirectly (short field) due to an offensive turnover. So in theory, the defense played well enough to hold the Browns scoreless. Too bad the offensive woes have distracted Eagles fans from talking about how dominant the defense was…

  22. 22 Mac said at 1:09 PM on September 11th, 2012:

    Yeah it’s as if we are taking the defense for granted. We’ve been waiting for a defensive performance like this since the passing of Jim Johnson (may he rest in peace).

  23. 23 iskar36 said at 12:43 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    The drive at the end of the first half was good to see. I liked the way our offense played on that drive. I was hoping the Eagles would build on that. Unfortunately, as we saw for most of the second half, they did not. The drive in the second half was not nearly as impressive. We moved the ball (although considering we ended the game with ~450 yards, that was never a major problem), but Vick still played sloppy at times. On one of his throws in the end zone, the defender had a great chance at a pick and didn’t manage to catch the ball. Vick effectively gave the game away on that pass and the defender gave it back. Yes, we scored after that, but “clutch” is a bit strong of a word for when we got very lucky to pull out the win.

    The one thing I will say is that I definitely agree that this is a game we lose last year. We did pull out the win in this game, so at the end of the day, we can just focus on the W rather than the details, but if we are playing a team that has more talent, I think we end up losing this game, probably pretty badly as well.

  24. 24 GermanEagle said at 12:49 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Though I strongly believe we will see a different Vick and Offense next Sunday against the Ravens.

  25. 25 iskar36 said at 12:56 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I definitely anticipate this being one of Vick’s worst games. All of us have seen him play significantly better than this in the past. The question really is, how much better will he be in our offense. Last year, he turned the ball over way to much. In the past in his career, he also was turning the ball over and making poor decisions. 2010 was an incredible year for Vick, but the further away we get from it, the more and more it looks like that year was an anomaly. And frankly, we need Vick of 2010 if we are going to be a dominant team this year and have a good shot at being a Superbowl team.

  26. 26 Arby1 said at 7:49 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    “The drive at the end of the first half was good to see.”

    The double move Maclin put on Haden for the TD was a thing of beauty. Had him totally out of position to make a play. Sweet!

  27. 27 TheRogerPodacter said at 4:17 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    hows that for clutch play? we scored both TDs within the last 2 minutes of each half, right? wow.

  28. 28 Eric Weaver said at 1:13 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    This game eerily reminded me of the Bengals game 4 years ago where it ended up in a tie. Sadly, I was at that game. At least the outcome was much different.

    Reid insisted on throwing, throwing and throwing.

  29. 29 fran35 said at 3:50 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    That Bengals game was horrible. We all felt completely blindsided when we realized that an NFL game could end it a tie….

  30. 30 Brian said at 12:00 PM on September 11th, 2012:

    If I remember correctly though, that tie ultimately didn’t end up hurting us though; we still snuck into the playoffs that year.

  31. 31 Kevin_aka_RC said at 1:17 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I wonder if Howie will tell Andy to run more. Howie may not be a former player/coach, but it’s pretty clear that Andy/Marty messed up.

  32. 32 teltschikfakeout88 said at 1:30 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I am sure that would go over well. Howie, who has no football background, speaking to Andy like a fan….Doubtful that is the extent of their conversations regarding how the games are coached…..just saying….

  33. 33 Kevin_aka_RC said at 2:35 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Howie is Andy’s boss…and Howie carried 4 RBs on his 53 man roster. He also gave Shady a lot of money this off-season. He likely wants a more-balanced pass/run ratio.

  34. 34 teltschikfakeout88 said at 3:09 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Andy is HC and Executive VP of Football Operations and has the final say in all football matters. This is a football matter and Howie has no real say. Certainly, Howie could be critical if he wanted to be but has no power to impact the game plan. Howie and Andy work together on how to build the team. In no way is Howie Andy’s boss. The only boss Andy has now is Jeffrey Lurie. As for the 4 RB’s on the team that decision has Reids fingerprints all over it. Just saying my man….

  35. 35 Phils Goodman said at 1:22 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    It’s natural to jump to the conclusion that Andy was just being stubborn re: the run/pass ratio, but you have to consider all of those holding penalties that negated runs that went for first downs and forced the Eagles into passing situations.

    Then Andy got deceived by a mirage at the end of the first half and thought the passing game would get back on track. If you want to criticize him for something, it’s definitely fair to see he sees the glass “half full” with the passing game too easily. He was over-eager to go back to the passing attack in the 3rd quarter when it was unnecessary.

  36. 36 Brian said at 11:58 AM on September 11th, 2012:

    Agreed. The play calling wasn’t great, but you have to account for the fact that there were tons of 2nd/3rd and longs, as well as multiple 1st and 15-20s. There were a lot of times on Sunday where Andy had no choice but to call a pass.

  37. 37 ahope205 said at 1:16 PM on September 11th, 2012:

    There was no excuse for the play calling. None. Looking at just first down plays, 26/36 were pass plays. Compare that with just 8 called runs for Shady. The penalties and game situation do not justify such a wide disparity. The Eagles led or were tied for most of the game. And even on their final drive, they got the ball back with nearly 7 minutes to play. There is no need to abandon the run in that situation, either. Andy did, and it nearly cost them the game.
    We’ve heard Andy say this week (and multiple times over the years) that he “saw something” in the opponent’s pass defense he thought he could “exploit.” (The Browns had one of the best pass defenses in the league last year, by the way: 2nd fewest yards allowed, 4th fewest yards per attempt and 9th best opponent passer rating.) When has he ever seen something in the opponent’s run defense worth exploiting? I can recall maybe a handful of games–2002 and 2008 against the Giants, 2000 and 2011 against Dallas stand out in my mind. Coincidentally, those games all happened to be incredibly impressive wins.

  38. 38 Kanin Faan said at 1:27 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    [quote]The world is very down on Brandon Weeden right now. His QB rating is 5.1. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of such a low figure.[/quote]

    Kevin Kolb’s QB-rating after the first two pre-season games of this season was 0.00
    Thats right, zero with two decimals accuracy. 😉

  39. 39 T_S_O_P said at 1:29 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    2 years ago, there was the Starship 7 period where teams DCs feared Vick. He could still run and freelance like Vick, but he could also one play from the pocket. I would say now that every DC is waiting in anticipation for him.

  40. 40 T_S_O_P said at 4:56 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Derek at Igglesblog was able to put it much better.

  41. 41 D3Keith said at 12:26 AM on September 11th, 2012:

    I’m also very close to just accepting that this is who Vick is, and the Eagles have to figure out how to win with him, not turn him into someone else.

    Although I still dream of the day he throws it out of bounds on 2nd and 6, and lives to play another down.

  42. 42 T_S_O_P said at 1:31 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    8 snaps for the back up RB in the game. Wonder what the second lowest total in the league is? (this presumes ours is the lowest)

  43. 43 Ben said at 1:40 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Just curious, how come you’ve never been a big Peyton fan?

  44. 44 teltschikfakeout88 said at 1:41 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Like Marino, he yells at people too much….

  45. 45 TommyLawlor said at 6:15 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Media over-exposure is part of it. I pulled for Spurrier and UF to beat him and UT back in the college days. That carried over. Then the Peyton worship in the NFL overwhelmed me.

    As good as he is, Peyton won a single SB. That was on a rainy day when a UDFA RB should have been the MVP and Peyton only had to out-duel Rex Grossman.

    I think he’s amazing, but I do think he can over-complicate football at times. Football can be a primal sport. Don’t try to be perfect. Just out-execute the other guy. Peyton likes to be perfect. Sometimes simple is better.

  46. 46 MJ said at 11:53 AM on September 11th, 2012:

    Man I hear that but I sure as hell would rather have him as our QB right now than Mike Vick. I know that was never a possibility but this offense would be so efficient with someone like him.

    How can you not admire the way guys like Peyton, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc throw their WR open instead of throwing to open receivers. It’s something we’ve never had here that I’ve always dreamed of. It’s those extra milliseconds of hesitation to wait for the WR to get open rather than throwing where the receiver will be when they run their pattern that I think cause Vick to take some of those extra hits. I know he’s not the type of QB and only the special ones are, but it’s like watching a rare art form.

  47. 47 teltschikfakeout88 said at 1:46 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    OK, I was at a bar in Arlington VA having to listen to all the Skins fans yell in sheer joy on Sunday as I had to endure a nail biter of a game with very little to cheer about until the end of each half. Not a great day, but one that was salvaged with a win. I stuck around and noticed that other QB’s other than Brees weren’t exactly lighting it up either and had a thought. Tommy is most definitely going to write about those woes in order to put some perspective on things. Bam just like clockwork. I am a wait and see type of person. Its the first week and don’t think we are at a point to where there is enough data to suggest good or bad…..but we need to see improvement by Vick next week and we need to run the damn ball more. Alright, with that said, I am in the mood for Gimpy’s MAQB which I am sure with have some surly criticism that I desire. Don’t forget to pimp the link to his next article.

  48. 48 D3Keith said at 8:33 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    To be fair, how many times have you been in that same bar laughing at your dejected fellow patrons?

  49. 49 teltschikfakeout88 said at 9:30 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    True but in this town once the skins start losing it gets really easy to get a drink on Sundays.

  50. 50 ahope205 said at 3:01 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I was among those who thought the Eagles should have kept McBriar over Henry. I was thrilled to be proven wrong. As odd as it sounds, Henry’s punting may have been the difference yesterday. He was outstanding.

  51. 51 SteveH said at 5:20 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    After much reflection, a few more thoughts about the game…
    This whole Vick debacle is so much more frustrating in the context of his comments this offseason, talking about how the offense is going to be unstoppable and even mentioning the word dynasty. I could care less about the media angle to those comments, I think they really gave us a window into Vicks mentality. Gone was the humble guy just out of prison trying work hard and live up to the potential he’s always had. Theres confidence and then theres grandiosity, and talking about dynasty potential when you didn’t even make the playoffs last year is definitely grandiose thinking. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me on this but I think a little success can get to some peoples heads more than others and make them complacent. As the old proverb goes: ” Pride goeth before the fall”. Hopefully this brings him back down to earth and helps him start worrying about winning some football games instead of dreaming of what might or might not happen 4 or 5 years down the road.

    Bryce Brown struggled early in pass pro and then barely saw the field. Who else saw that coming?

    I hate Reids mentality of “keep shooting”. If someones just a little off thats one thing, but when someone is clearly rattled and making ridiculous mistakes over and over, I don’t think theres anything to gain by beating your head against that wall. Play to whats working and worry about getting the guy on track next week. Fortunately we started handing off to Mccoy and let him do his thing.

    Speaking of Mccoy, I love him as a runner. He’s not just fast and elusive, he also has excellent vision and patience at times. There was one run late in the fourth quarter where we ran to the right and it looked like it might get strung out or stacked up, but Mccoy slowed down, got behind his big uglies, waited for them to start moving guys and just followed them right down the field for a good gain. I was really impressed that a guy who relies on speed/agility so much also can be patient and use his blocking really well.

  52. 52 BG said at 7:07 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Tommy are you using the All-22 film to rewatch the game?

  53. 53 D3Keith said at 8:28 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Yeah I was going to ask about this too. I have DirecTV and they have this thing included for free this year called short chops, which is basically the action and only the action from every game replayed in 30 minutes or less. Probably not as good as the coaches’ footage, but great for a life on the go, and great if you want to check in on another NFL team but don’t have the time or DVR space for the whole thing.

    Anybody who has the all-22, let us know how it is. I didn’t buy it because of the short chops, but I wanted to.

  54. 54 A_T_G said at 7:33 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Poor Weeden. As a point of reference, Jeff Saturday has thrown one forward pass in his career: an incomplete, falling, side-armed chuck that traveled about 2 yards on one of those end of game plays where you try to keep it alive.

    Saturday has a QB rating of 39 because of that pass.

  55. 55 D3Keith said at 8:31 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    I am sharing the with the Browns fan who sits next to me at work. He is only kind of amused.

  56. 56 P_P_K said at 8:25 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    Tommy, did you really say you were apologizing to the O line? Everyone one of those guys except Todd was hit with a holding call. They should be apologizing to us.

  57. 57 Aleandro green said at 9:12 PM on September 10th, 2012:

    not sure if were being serious or not but jeff garcia posted a 0 qb as a brown