Vick vs Cards
Posted: September 25th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 37 Comments »Eagles Jake has the video up at his site. Go check it out and see if you come away more frustrated or less frustrated with Mike.
Somehow Jake only has 383 followers on Twitter. You guys should follow him. His videos are always worth watching. Even the bad games…it can be helpful to go back and see the problems. I think here, you could see Vick was off from the first 3 plays. Don’t know why. Just looked out of rhythm. It was like watching Jimmy Bama try to dance, but even worse.
Less frustrated. Much less. He wasn’t holding it as long as it seemed live. The line however looked worse. Good lord, they have got to get that fixed.
He did manage to throw the ball away a couple times as well
Wow, the film tells a different story. While Vick has serious ball security issues and cannot read a blitz to save his life, he wasn’t holding onto the ball too long.
What was there to read?
When you have a helmet on each rusher, and a RB who’s supposed to pick up the free guy, why that 30 yard pattern downfield should work because your blockers will give you time to exploit man coverage. Except of course when Reynolds stays on the double team instead of picking up the A blitz, Bell gets beat in 1.5 seconds and McCoy matador blocks Washington.
In other words, the entire first half.
^^^ This.
Thanks for the love Tommy!
Thanks for the videos.
Tommy,
Why does this offense rarely run the short underneath routes. It seems like every route is 10+ yard patterns, even the TEs. These routes would help negate the zero blitz that the Cards kept running. Also, for years and years we were the best screen team in the NFL. Now, we are lucky to see one or two failed attempts per game. What happened?
Worse than that, the outlet receivers always stop about 5 yards from the LOS and turn and face the QB, defenses know this and LBs and safeties sit themselves a couple yards away, watch Vick and break on the ball – this results in a number of bad outcomes:
1) they get shots at interceptions
2) there is rarely any YAC
3) they also act as “spies” when Vick scrambles since they can sit there and watch him.
Now go watch the Zona patterns, lot of shallow crossing routes, the defender has to follow the receiver, can’t watch the QB and is out of position and his momentum makes it hard to change direction if the QB scrambles.
Just another example of poor play design by MM.
If the crossing routes are timed correctly, Vick should know generally where the receiver will be at the 3 second mark. Example, why not have Harbor chip to help Bell then release on an underneath route – oh, because he’s on the bench.
Couldn’t agree more. MM/AR want to tout how explosive our WRs are…okay, a bunch of curls and comebacks don’t let them use that explosiveness. Zipping DJax on a drag route across the middle and letting him explode up the field is a great way to use him.
“3) they also act as “spies” when Vick scrambles since they can sit there and watch him.”
Also, a FANTASTIC point.
It is like I said yesterday. We used to have a plan to help McNabb when they were killing him. We went to short routes, screens, check downs… we don’t see it any more. Even Kolb in his few starts got short routes and slants to help him.
MM and AR have lost their minds over Vick’s escapability (is it even a word?).
I blame Jeff Blake. Ever since he taught Dmac to throw the long ball we look more like Air Coryell than WC on Offense.
Remember when Westy used to run the hook route and sit down right in front of the back judge? Dmac always knew he could throw a straight pass at the worms by aiming for the Stripes and Westy would be there to save the worms.
Worm burners do not get intercepted.
you’re killing it. 1 and 2 are important, but point 3 is huge. looking at AZ’s defense in the first half, they were playing almost a 3 – under zone, with 3 defenders basically at the sticks on every pass, available to move up and contain if vick tried to run, and able to cut off all of the underneath crossing routes.
when vick had time, he occasionally found folks on deep crossing routes, behind the LBs and in front of the deep coverage. problem was, they were getting to him with 3 or 4 rushers, even when we kept in extra blockers.
he had trouble w/ LBs in underneath coverage vs. CLE, and it bit us in the ass against AZ. the solution, of course, would be to run at these soft fronts and force the LBs AND safeties to get close to the LoS.
but think about it. if you’re playing andy and know he’ll run at a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio with a top 3 back even against one of the best passing defenses in the league, of COURSE you’ll sit back and play coverage.
in the 2nd half, before the game was completely out of hand, some of the runs came from vick checking INTO them. that means andy and marty called even less than the 17 runs. unbelievable, in less you’ve been an eagle fan for years.
along the same lines, here’s an analysis of the goal line fumble you may want to check out. http://t.co/dVZru1E8
by the way, tommy, you are a voice of sanity in the wilderness.
That link was very insightful, thanks
That was a great explanation…. too bad MM and AR believe that Houdini still plays for us.
How does Shady, Bell, and Mathis miss the unblocked Safety?
Yeah, other than the fumbling hard to be too angry at Vick. The O-line and the playcalling were far and away the bigger issues on Sunday.
Bell in particular just did not cut it.
may be only slightly less. The point is that he doesn’t recognize the blitz and when he does he most often spins and runs backward. He’s only successful when he has at least 3 clean seconds to throw the ball or a wide open receiver on a quick drop. He’s getting paid 80mill to make the plays that average QBs can’t make, not just the ones they can.
This is the NFL where the defense gets paid just like the offense to make plays. Every other QB in the league has to deal with the same issues. Vick still needs to do a better job pre-snap diagnosing the defense like elite QBs do, and be willing to take step into the pocket or slide and remain in the pocket.
And yes, it would be nice if Andy/MM would help him out a little, but at this point does anyone actually believe that will have for an extended period? Not in my book. Another failed marriage unraveling one game at a time.
Did you see Rodgers against the Seahawks?
Getting creamed in the first half trying to run slow developing plays with two OTs who can’t pass block?
69 yards total offense at halftime.
Second half GB goes to two TE, runs the ball and starts moving the chains.
Now I’m sure the problem was that Rodgers can’t read a blitz and holds the ball too long. Just sayin . . .
Did you see Rogers win a SB and lead his team to a 15-1 record the following year? This is more than about one game. This is a chronic Vick problem. Just sayin…
2-3 real quick…steelers and giants will lay into this o-line.
Yea, Vick and the the o-line have their problems. But for crying out loud, the game plan was pathetic. Reid is being slammed in the Philly papers today and rightfully so. And his post game script about “I couda’ done a better job” has gotten too old. A guy who repeated could’ve done a better job shouldn’t be somewhere else doing a different job.
d’oh. I mean “should be somewhere else…”
i’d love to say i came away feeling any different, but it’s just so hard to tell with the regular TV feed. you have no idea what he’s seeing downfield, if he’s missing open receivers, etc. i’d love to see this same breakdown done with all-22 footage
(not to downplay the video, some of it was interesting and useful, and something like this analyzing shady would have been great, but with a QB you really need to see the whole field). any chance of that jake? i think that would tell a lot more of the story.
i will say it seemed like he didn’t hold the ball as long as previously thought. the plays he did hold the ball, i’d really love to see the receivers. it’s possible there was just no one open. also, the vick tried at least three deep balls and all of them were off. if we get just one of those, maybe the game is different, but his accuracy wasn’t there.
still, even after all these years the arm strength is impressive. he flicks his wrist and the ball flies 50 yards.
On the Jackson completion to the 1, does Jackson have to do that stutter step killing his momentum if Vick throws the ball lower so that Jackson doesn’t have to extend fully to catch it?
You can’t really fault Jackson on that play. He caught that ball and did what he could knowing he could be blown up. Last year he drops that pass.
BUT Djax is never going to blow someone up to get in the endzone. That was either a silly call by MM and AR or AZ had it read perfect… I would rather have seen that ball go to Avant or Shady or Celek…
Yeah, I don’t understand the heat DJax is getting in the media.
Wasn’t criticising Jackson. My point was the throw was so high he had to stop his momentum to make the catch.
less frustrated. Watching the game live, I had felt Mike was holding the ball too long. Now, with the QB clock running, I can see that he rarely had 3 seconds to throw before a rusher was in on him. So definitely more blame on the OL and our moronic offensive game planners.
What is this “twitter” of which you are speaking? 😛
Well, we better break out some ol AFL plays if our Oline is an open floodgate.
Maybe this will help….
http://www.footballcardgallery.com/pics/blog/1976_wonder_bread_ray_guy_back.jpg
Of course we could use these as well…
http://www.footballcardgallery.com/1964+Philadelphia/84/Packers-Play-of-the-Year/
Is Snoop Lion taking a penalty kick, sobriety test, or just showing us all he may secretly want to be a little girl?
http://www.dramalikethedj.com/video-snoop-takes-penalty-kickstalks-football-and-more-on-espn/
The game wasn’t televised live here, so this is my first time seeing a lot of these plays. Vick is definitely off, but his pocket presence wasn’t nearly as bad as I was expecting. Seemed like half of the plays he had someone in his face in 2 seconds, and the other half were max protection and he only had 2 receivers who weren’t able to get open. Really felt like a full team overmatching.
What happened to the trick plays in the Eagles offense.
The weekly ghost reverse?
The weekly flea flicker?
The double moves?
The actual reverse?
Hiding Jason Avant in the backfield with 2 RB’s and having him motion out?
I feel like our offense has been a bit lame lately, but maybe it’s just me. I remember that Ghost reverse almost always being good for 5-10 yards. Maybe they ran them into the ground, but I feel like the creativity is gone.
And while I haven’t watched the video yet (I will check it out at home), I would like to say that no matter what the OL looks like, wether or not the WR’s get open, my opinion on Vick isn’t changing. He has no awareness. I saw someone mention in a comment that he threw a couple passes away…well even on those – he took hits. Why would you take a hit, when you are throwing a ball away? He trusts his ability too much in the pocket and not enough out of the pocket.
Perfect example of Mike Vick (and why I’m ready to replace him). Arizona gets outside pressure, Vick actually reads this correctly, and steps up in the pocket (has me thinking, great, he’s making a good read). Vick then proceeds to stand in the pocket and take a short sack. When you are a shade under 6 feet, and your OL are 6’4-6’8 give or take, and you step up in the pocket, you should be looking for a running lane, not a passing lane. . Dive down for a 1 yard gain, avoid contact, or take off on a real run, but no Vick decided he could still make a play, took a ht from behind and lost a yard. This is just stupid football.
EDIT/UPDATE:
Am I missing something on the Chas Henry cut? I know he was terrible against the Ravens. But I don’t think he was awful against the Cardinals, and I thought he was pretty good against the Browns, so is McBriar that much of a upgrade?
I’m not a fan of the cut. I didn’t see a problem with Chas. Peterson didn’t hurt us and the punts had good distance and direction. McBriar probably didn’t become a better holder over the last two weeks either.
Vick looks way to casual for most of the first half. He almost looks laxidasical dropping back. Generally it seemed like as long as he got rid of the ball in the 2-3 second timeframe good things happened, but if he held it for longer than that bad things happened, which is odd considering you think of Vick as being a great extend the play guy, but I don’t think thats true anymore.
The biggest difference I note between Vick and other top flight QB’s is that other Qb’s get back in their drop and are ready to fire passes much more quickly. I don’t know if this is purely a symptom of play design or if Vick just doesn’t play as fast.
Another thing that really stands out in my mind is how few quick hitting pass plays we run. I have to wonder if the reason we don’t is because of Vicks history of batted passes. Vick seems to be a fairly low trajectory guy, maybe we don’t run them because of that.
I don’t come away feeling better about Vick at all, he needs to play faster, and his issues with batted passes I don’t think are going to go away, and the more he ages the less and less we see of his elite athleticism, which counterbalances some of his shortcomings in the passing game.
Also, that had to be Lesean Mccoy’s worst game as pro in pass protection, he was just awful on some of those blocks.
Maybe Vick has his flaws when it comes to recognizing the blitz and making the right adjustments. But for any given QB this will turn into rocket science when have to factor in the possible inability of your blockers. By my count he completed almost every pass where he had a clean pocket. And on all other occasions he head immediate pressure right in his face.