Crushing Loss
Posted: October 14th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 130 Comments »Eagles were up 23-13. Lions tied it up, then won in OT. 4-2 was right there in the palm of our hand and we let it slip away.
Everyone wants to play the blame game. This loss is on Vick. It’s on the OL. It’s on the playcalling. It’s on the D. It’s on Castillo. It’s on the DL And so on. Forget the blame game. This loss is on the Eagles. Every part of the team had a hand in this loss.
The most disturbing part of this game wasn’t one player or coach or side of the ball. We played a dumb game and that’s what bugs me.
* Jason Babin was burned on rollout passes at least twice. Trent Cole once.
* Fletcher Cox punched someone. What the hell?
* Jason Avant didn’t get out of bounds late in the half. That might have cost us 3 points.
* Dallas Reynolds and Vick were off for 3 snaps in the 1st half.
* The coaches continually tried to run outside when it clearly wasn’t working.
* Curtis Marsh grabs a WR on 3rd/short. Jam him, don’t grab him.
And on and on and on.
The Eagles looked like a dumb team today. Andy Reid and his coaches have plenty to work on this upcoming week.
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I don’t mind you guys doing some ranting, but watch the language and be respectful of each other. We’re all in a bad mood right now.
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Doesnt there have to be some sort of coaching shakeup in the bye week? How can Castillo possible keep his job right now? he’s the easiest to can
No chance. The D didn’t have a good day, but you don’t fire a guy for allowing 26 points and 400 yds. You fire a guy when his unit averages those kind of numbers. Eagles D has been good this year. Bad day.
defensive line was extremely frustrating today. no sacks and more than that, pretty much no pressure at all. something needs to be done there because all this great play we were expecting just isn’t there. i don’t think you can continually blame the double teams and chip blocks either…there are 1v1 matchups during the game, and even the double-teams, you’d expect one time for someone to split it and touch the QB.
i know people will complain about vick so i’ll leave that to someone else. but the play of the DL almost has to be considered a weakness at this point.
DL had a bad game. 3 weeks without a sack is shocking.
Fully agree. This is no longer a Dline not living up to expectations. This is a DLine just playing flat out poorly.
Glad to see the rational post, I agree that everyone is to blame. There’s no sense in arguing who is more to blame.
not sure i agree – we have to identify was the top priority to fix is, no?
We need to draft a C who both fit Mud’s scheme *and* can play power when need be. Interior line play has truly been bad for most of Vick’s tenure, and now every team is focused on exploiting the lack of cohesion made worse by the C’s lack of strength and size.
All anyone has to do is watch Brees last year and this year. Truly awesome interior line play made that record season. The loss of Carl Nicks has been a major reason why the Saints aren’t as explosive this year.
Yeah, but you do that by re-watching the game and identifying problems. Making broad proclamations 10 mins after the game is just ranting. Nothing wrong with it, as long as you keep it in context.
these rants are not just analysis of this game in isolation, though. there’s a larger, much longer trend at play
Tommy, great blog man. Always a top spot for analysis.
What the hell can we do? Reidhinweig will not, can not, change their ways. After so long it’s just easy to see what they have planned.
This defense is pretty good. But they’re gassed as hell. Vick continues to suck ass. Honestly, it’s about time for a change all around. This is not a SB team. I’d so love to eat crow but it’s absurd how pigheaded this team is.
The playcalling was bad today for certain parts of the game. The stretch play has worked well most of the year, but was useless today. Offense was inconsistent, not terrible. Dropped TD by Celek hurt. OPI on Celek hurt.
This loss is on Reid, 100%. The team had breakdowns in every facet, and each one is a reflection of Reid’s failure as a head coach and the flawed staff he’s assembled. He’s now 3-7-1 in overtime games. That’s not an accident.
The lack of discipline and lack of awareness from Reid’s players is not an accident. He’s a stubborn, undisciplined play-caller who insists on winning HIS way. Turnovers, time management, blown assignments–look no forward to Reid’s own lack of accountability at the post-game pressers every week. There is never a shortage of excuses: we didn’t have OTAs, we got hosed on a crucial call, our best OL is injured, the ball took a bad bounce….
The Eagles have won 3 play-off games in the last 7 years. Reid should have been gone in 2008, but stole under a lucky star and somehow backed into the play-offs on the last day of the season. That was the worst thing that could have happened to this franchise.
Stretch play hasn’t really worked this year though. It’s been inconsistent at best and to the left I would bet a play that has had some really poor results overall.
There are players and coaches on this team who may be good at something but just not good enough. If we continue to accept failure and mediocrity we will always be a second rate team in this league.
Reid, for example, would make an excellent QB coach or even offensive coordinator under the right head coach. He has no business running a team on his own.
Really? I feel the opposite. Reid would be a great manager every day but game day.
That’s basically what I was saying. Let him work with the QBs Monday through Saturday.
was it avant? i thought shady should have gotten out of bounds on the screen save a time out
Vick should have never thrown the ball to Shady on that play. Throw it out of bounds and save the clock. The Avant play came on 3rd down.
I was mostly shocked at the state of run blocking for the oline. If they could run-block, I think we win this game. Those stretch plays to the outside is a matter of recognizing that the interior line play is…unreliable. I don’t know how you fix that.
As for Vick? I just think of Foles, and just laugh. He would be dead now. Vick didn’t give up a sack until very late in the game. He generally got killed, and when I was counting, the hits are about 3.5 seconds. I actually think he played well, considering the circumstances. People who think Foles would do any better than pretty boy Brady Quinn today is fooling themselves. As it is, I don’t see how the Eagles can improve their QB situation easily.
There is no perfection in the NFL. Plenty of QBs play in front of suspect offensive lines. It is time to put Foles in and watch how the timing and execution of the offense gets extremely better.
No quarterback plays well in front of suspect interior play. There’s no pocket to step up, and when the DT/UT are pretty much pass rushing, well, it’s easy for the ends to go crazy. Virtually every QB this year has lost when the OL plays this bad or worse (unless they’re facing another team with a horrible day at OL).
You may be right but Vick is not a good QB. Even at his prime he was not a good passer. His handling of the offense is one of the major reasons we can only score 20 points or less. The Browns can score 35 but we cant? Sometimes you just have to make due with what you have and this is the offensive line we have. Personally I would replace the center with a veteran. Theres no time for on the job training for this offensive line. Yes I would still put Foles in. Vick is not going to get us anywhere.
I’ve been watching too much bad QB’ing to think Vick is a bad one. Got too many yards, too many first downs in pressure situations, and had the touchdowns. It’s just echo-chamber effect for the usual reasons.
More than this…turnovers happen when you have the QB anxious. Consistently relying on Vick to bail out OL, and to make time for deep plays is burning Morningwheg big time. And no, quick throws are not the end all and be all. If you can’t get the time to do deep strikes from time to time, then you have to run the ball, Andy. Unfortunately, the OL was playing so bad today that I can understand why Andy did not do so.
Hes not a bad QB. Hes just mediocre. Watch the best QBs in the game. They make things happen. They are the leader. Just because Vick is not totally bad doesnt mean you run him out there every week. Tony Romo is a good example of a QB who will probably never win but they will keep running him out there because “hes good enough”. We need to settle for a higher grade in our QBs. As for our offensive line ? Andy and Roger Mudd built this small line. Small players get hurt like Kelce. Either we put our best players in the game or we just give up this season. Again good offensive line or not — put Foles in.
No offense but now you just sound silly. Kelce wasn’t injured due to being small. A safety attempting to tackle McCoy blew out his ACL. That can happen to any size O lineman. As far as Vick, he made things happen today that Foles couldn’t. He escapsed free rushers in a way that most QBs wouldn’t think are possible. Also, he threw some really nice passes (including a dropped TD by Celeck). All of this, while being pummeled into the dirt repeatedly. Meanwhile you want to put in Foles, a kid who has never played a real NFL down, because he did well in preseason. You remember how dominant our D line was in preseason? Preseason means nothing. This guy was selected in the 3rd for a reason. Please stop allowing yourself to be fooled by preseaon hype. Vick has proved he can play in this league, and he played well today. If the Defense doesn’t give up a 10 point lead in 5:18, then we win this game.
Or if the offense managed to turn one of those RZ FGs into a TD. Or if they managed something other than a 3 and out in their final drive. Or if they don’t go backwards 20 yards in OT. Or if they don’t turn the ball over 3 times.
The D took over with a 10 point lead and let the Lions score a TD in less than 2 min. If they don’t give up huge chunks of yards, then they can make the Lions take most the time off the clock and the offense wouldn’t even have needed a 1st down. In my opinion no matter what happens earlier in the game, if the offense gains a 2 possession lead late in the 4th, the D has to protect it.
Why no veteran backup for Kelce ? Now hes injured and we put a suspect in for an “on the job training” plan. Vick is not the answer for QB. Plenty of teams these days trust their fate to a rookie and young QBs. At least they have room to grow and expand. Personally im not a big fan of the preseason. You are right: a lot of hype and busts. Foles has poise. I think he can handle a simplified offense this year. Vick in not the answer. Do we need another busted season to finally see the team cut him before we all realize hes not the “right fit” for this team and offense?
We brought in a couple of veterans to b/u Kelce. Neither Mike Gibson nor Steve Vallos played well enough to win the job this summer. Both had some starting experience.
Well I meant like someone that has been a starting center in the past for multiple seasons and has had success. I think age is a factor the Eagles should loosen up on more and fill their roster with experience as well as youth.
Vick has turned the ball over plenty, but he has also given the team leads late in the game in 5 of the 6 games.
shah 100 percent agreed, see Tom Brady in the first Super Bowl against the Giants as an example. I’m not fond of Vick as a person, I think he’s arrogant in some ways, disgusting in some of the things that happened in his personal life, but what do people expect from the guy as a quarterback? F*ck, the offensive line is putrid. Geez
I think it’s time to sure up those Stanford connections Tommy.
Can I blame that ref who called the OPI on Celek from behind the receiver where he couldn’t see if Celek extended his arms (which he didn’t)?
Let me be angry at someone Tommy!
I think what Tommy is saying is that you don’t need to focus all of your ire on one person.
I agree, simply because the Eagles are not a good football team. For a variety of reasons for the second year in a row the Eagles are far less than the sum of their parts. That doesn’t bode well for Andy keeping his job. The Eagles go into a difficult stretch after the bye that could easily see them turn this 2 game losing streak into a playoff hope crushing losing streak.
Eagles defense allowed: 16, 23, 27, 17, 16, 26. Average: 20.8 points per game.
Eagles offense scored: 17, 24, 6, 19, 14, 23. Average: 17.2 points per game.
Up until this week, the D allowed under 20pts/game (#10), despite dealing with the 2nd most giveaways in the NFL from the 31st ranked scoring offense.
Blame the D for the 4th quarter collapse all you want. It’s certainly deserved. But if there’s a coordinator that deserves to be fired, Castillo rightfully comes in at #3.
The Eagles defense has been great for 3 quarters a game this year, but they’ve blown 4th quarter leads in 4 games.
Baltimore – allowed them to take the lead (sure they held after Vick got it back, but gave up the first lead)
NYG – allowed them to take the lead (same note as above, but this time needed 2 missed FG’s)
Pitt – blown 4th quarter lead, after playing great all day.
Det – yeah, that happened.
I wouldn’t say 4 blown leads. Today (10 points) was a blown lead.
Defenses allow points. It happens. But here’s what hasn’t been happening: the offense plays a good game, but the defense blows the big lead the offense provided.
What has been happening is the offense stumbles around for most of the game, failing to score points and putting the D in a hole with turnovers. Despite this, the D keeps the game close. The offense puts together 1 or 2 nice drives, just enough to take a slim lead. Sometimes the D holds, sometimes they don’t.
Trust me – I’m not aguring in favor of the offense, I just want to cool down the “defense played well” arguments. Having a lead in the 4th quarter use to mean something, and I don’t trust the Eagles offense to win come from behind games often (I’m shocked we have 3 this year), but the defense has in 4 games allowed a team to come from behind to take the lead.
They’ve been amazing for 3 quarters a game this year, but the 4th quarter has been unimpressive in my mind.
My point is, aside from the 4th quarter today and a few other quarters, the defense *has* played well. Not best of all time well, not even best in the NFL well. But well.
The Eagles didn’t have a 2nd half lead in the BAL game and the D only allowed 2 FGs. With the Giants, it was a 6pt lead they “blew” by allowing a TD. With the Steelers it was a 1pt lead, because they allowed a FG.
To me, a blown lead is at least 2 scores. It happened today. They generally didn’t play well in the ARZ game. I just don’t buy this narrative that the D is consistently blowing leads.
I guess we have different stances.
In the Steelers game – if the Eagles defenses gets off the field, we win (or probably win), same thing in Detroit.
I still think this is the same exact team as last year, and now we’re on pace for a identical record.
2-4 in 2011, 3-3 in 2012….But you have to be honest with yourself, those 3 wins were all kinda flukey, not ones you’d expect to continue.
I know nothing is going to change, but heads should roll in the bye week, and as disgusting of a fan it makes me sound to be – I’d be fine with them losing out – because I’ve been ready for years for Reid to be gone, and now I can’t wait for it to happen. He can take his awful QB, failed O-Coodinator, and D-Coodinator(OLINE coach), and numerous others with him.
I’m ready for the Philadelphia Eagles to be rebuilt, not as a buch of wusses.
We know where you stand.
You all may not like the coments, but they seem to be more true every day. I know you all hate to admit it – but come on.
3 wins – by a combined 4 points. One of which required a missed FG x2 to maintain? A defense that has blown a 4th quarter lead in 4 of the 6 games (only games they didn’t, the team was blown out – and in the Browns game the offense gave away the lead on their own).
How can we stick our heads in the sand?
QB – Same
RB – Same
TE – Same
WR – Same
OL – Same (less 2 via injury)
DL – Same (less 1 via injury + 1 via draft)
LB – two new faces
DB’s – one out, one in
s – Same
K – Same
HC – Same
OC – Same
DC – Same
OL – Same
DL – Same
I could go on, but lets face it – they put a bad team on the field in 2011 – had a good run beating up on Mark Sanchez, Rex Grossman, Stephen McGee, and Matt Moore to get to claim to be medicore. They returned the same team, and expected better results…..am I missing something?
Jeff says Andy’s Job is on the line, but I don’t buy it – because if his job was on the line – you’d expect him to fight for it. To make some important necessary changes. Reid isn’t. The team isn’t.
It was a team effort in the loss, but if Vick doesn’t give away 3 possessions, maybe we never go to OT. If Reid/MM don’t have crap play calls – maybe we never go to OT. And if Juan could hold a lead – we never go to OT.
So far this year…4 – 4th quarter leads blown, and a missed FG from blowing 2 leads in 1 4th quarter….People can’t keep praising this group for playing well for 3 quarters.
That “4 4th quarter leads blown” is incorrect:
* The game was tied in the 4th in the BAL game and the D allowed 2 FGs.
* They allowed a single TD to “blow” the lead in the 4th Q of the NYG game.
* PIT had the lead at the start of the 4th Q. Eagles took a 1pt lead but allowed a FG.
* Yes, blown 4th Q lead vs DET.
I’m trying to figure out your motives here.
1. You believe that the rest of us don’t like your comments.
2. You must be confident that we are all aware of your point of view.
3. Even you say that you are covering the same ground.
The only possible reason I can come up with are:
1. You believe that you are going to convince someone with decision making authority.
2. You want some kind of recognition for being down on the team BEFORE the darkest hour arrived.
3. You hope to raise a mob to storm the Nova Care Center.
Well, they are not here, kudos, and I ave a few pitchforks.
Saying something loudly and repeatedly doesn’t make it more true. Please, we got it. Let me get to the comments by the rest of the readers.
I was happy with the d line without the sacks the last few weeks until
today. Not that I didn’t want sacks, but at least before they getting
good pressure and causing bad throws. Didn’t see that today, didn’t see
anything close to a a sack and not much pressure. . I
think when the d was playing good it was the secondary and I guess
Detroit decided if there’s not going to be pressure there has to be a
way for guys to get open Doesn’t matter how good your secondary is, you
have to depend on the guys up front at least some of the time.
This is a rant and Tommy is right, the game has to be re watched and broken down. Thankfully I don’t have to do that,, Dumb and Dumber is on now and I’m
not going to be using my brain for awhile, just watching that and I’ll be staying away from football for awhile. At least Dallas lost. There’s my
happy point of the day
T-Law:
1. Did Stafford and Calvin Johnson pick it up in the 4th Q after Nate Allen went out?
While Colt Anderson is great on special teams . . . he doesn’t look even like a serviceable #3 safety.
Seems like the Eagles need to make a roster change. (PHILIP THOMAS?)
But who would the team cut? Deion Lewis? Could be.
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The interior O-line is at best inconsistent. And the OTs likewise.
The biggest disappointments right now are Watkins and Herremanns.
Wildly inconsistent. And for a team that passes as much as Philadelphia, Watkins is a bit of a problem.
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Play calling. I guess all you can say is AR and MM thought that throwing the ball in OT would work.
Ok. I’ll accept that.
But to continually call the stretch play . . . when the first 2 plays of the second half were quick hitters between the guards that generated yards.
I DON’T GET IT.
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Coaching.
Where does Howard Mudd fit into this conversation?
Obviously, the loss of Peters, especially, has rippled across the O-line.
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QB Mike Vick.
I don’t hold him responsible for this loss. The INT was terrible because he had D-Jax singled up and wide open. Bad passes happen. (Stafford to Nnamdi.)
(Note: My reference to drafting Tannenhill was not about THIS year. But next year. That kid is really good.)
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Finally, the D-line.
Plugging B-Graham in more is not going to solve whatever pass-rushing problems they’re having. (Graham is not remotely close to being a dominant player like Pierre-Paul, or Strahan and Umenyiora in their primes. Missed pick. It happens.)
But something’s going on out there.
I’m going with AGE. Babin and Jenkins are already over age 30. Cole will be by November.
I’d love to be wrong. But this D-line bears an unfortunate resemblance to the 1981 Eagles’ line.
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All that said, the Eagles have talent at the offensive skill positions. But the O-line is very sub-standard right now.
Same on the defensive side. LBs and DBs are so much better than last season. But the D-line is struggling.
SO . . . is it the coaching? From AR down?
b-graham officially a bust now?
Not a bust.
That’s a Jerome McDougle.
I’m just thinking that he’s not worth the 13th pick in the draft plus whatever else the Eagles threw in to move up.
As T-Law’s pointed out, Graham was *hot* coming out Michigan
But — like former All American UNC forward on their ’72 basketball team Bill Chamberlain — Graham may have reached his peak at Michigan.
He’s solid. At this point, I just don’t see him being a game-changer.
10 more games until Vick and Reid are gone.
Cheers to that!
I am finally on board… ready to be done with mediocraty.
Greatness doesn’t come by default. Who is your QB and coach next season? I’m honestly curious, dream scenario. We are too middle of the road to get a top 2 pick. Do you get a QB who is still around in the middle of the first round, or do you grab an offensive lineman to protect Nick Foles? Whose your coach? Got a coordinator from another team in mind, or maybe a HC from college? Do you get a guy whose philosophies work with our current roster. Kind take the baton from Andy and take it further than he could get. Or do you bring someone with a different approach completely, throw away 3 or so seasons to make a bigger, more physical Eagles?
If this T/O rate continues, you wont have to wait that long to see Vick on the bench, which is sad because i think Foles has a shot in this league, and nothing destroys a rookie QB’s career like a bad O-line. It just changes the way you play the game in a real bad way.
I once did a quick look at the early career sack #s of “effective” QBs like Aikman/the Mannings and other guys like Carr and Couch and Kolb. The pattern that emerged was that there’s a threshold of ~3 sacks/game for young QBs: the effective guys never suffered that, while the early crash-and-burn QBs all had OLs that allowed at least that many. Right now, we’re giving up 2.8 sacks/game. Not a good omen.
I’d be curious if your look had numbers on time between the snap and release of the ball, I think that plays in big time.
tommy, i feel like we’ve been losing in the trenches (both sides) for weeks and that is our biggest issue. also, do you think that maybe castillo’s schemes are too vanilla? our defense seems to be regressing. i don’t know if anyone wants to admit that but i can see it happening. One of two things is happening. either our players are not executing as well as they were or we are getting out-schemed. which do you think that it is?
We all should have known that as soon as Lurie publicly said that 8-8 wasn’t acceptable, he doomed the team to an 8-8 finish. That’s just how the football gods work in Philadelphia.
Reid, his staff and his QB choice doomed this team this year.
Anyway, I wasn’t following along here today, but my sister just sent me a text saying wtf, and vick sucks. I call bullcrap on that. If you saw the ass whopping that Vick took, especially in the first half, how this guy will stand in, know a hit is coming and make the throw, you gotta say one thing, he is one brave mofo. That guy is the model for the retired guys today, ie Jim McMahon. that are walking around barely knowing what day it is. WTF?
I wasn’t following along here meaning is anyone talking about how incredible it is that Vick can stand in there and get his face kicked in and keep coming back for more?
Unfortunately in between ass kickings he’s making about 5-6 terrible decisions a game. Courage Vick has. It’s his intelligence that is lacking.
You call it terrible decisions, I call it being put under immense pressure along with lousy play calling. That stupid outside run, lousy offensive line. Losing their center and Peters has turned out to be a huge deal.
Vick has been making terrible decisions all season long. Not sure what you have been watching or why you are defending him. Sure, Andy/Marty are doing him no favors, and the defense turns to jello in 4th quarters, but Vicks problems are 90% on him
I know what I have been watching, not sure what you have been watching. to put 90 percent is an insane number to put on Vick.I’m not saying Vick is leading this team to anything great, but he’s the only chance they have. For some reason people have anointed Foles the next Tom Brady from the preseason which is laugh out loud moronic. Not saying it’s you, but I guarantee that Tommy, who does in does depth game analysis, will be more on my side than he is on yours, especially if you think it’s 90 percent Vick’s fault. That’s typical in this city though, the qb is always the enemy.
Not only chance they have, but best qb option for this year, then it goes from there. 3-3, the world’s not ending yet, wait until dec 21st, or whatever date that is.
Vick is what he is–this is a typical season for him. His career rating is 80.4. This year he’s at 77.8. He is not (nor was he ever) a $100 million QB.
I disagree, Vick had his share of issues today as well.
I agree that Vick earned some respect today by standing in there against that beating to go up 10 in the fourth, but I was more impressed by his halftime adjustments. He started getting the ball out more quickly and started taking off running to get that relentless Lions DL to back off some.
His read on the Maclin TD was good. I’d like to see more of that, and more taking off, with fewer turnovers, hesitation and blitz mis-reads.
when do pitchers and catchers report?
Thankfully the bye is next week for Reid&Co. to regroup. A lot of questionable playcalling and personnel decisions. Running stretch plays against the wide 9 when they were clearly not working and having Hughes in at the slot during critical moments
Unfortunately its Atlanta after the bye.
Reid has done well with wins after the bye. I know what you mean though, Eages face 3 or 4 teams coming off their byes. Talk about scheduling fail
That was an incredibly frustrating game to watch. I said it in the game thread basically what you said above: wasn’t the offense’s fault, wasn’t the defense’s fault, it was a team suckfest. Coaches on down.
I mean seriously, how often does that stretch play go for a loss before Marty realizes that it doesn’t work? How many times is Juan going to send a linebacker up the A or B gap and not see him hit home before he realizes that maybe trying something else would be better? Overall, this was a sorry team performance.
Is there a reason we refuse to let havili be the lead blocker on outside runs for shady and are we ready for a center change
Vick is a great athlete, but terrible QB. Can’t read a defense to save his life and Andy/Marty don’t do him any favors by ignoring the run game. The problems are that Vick and Andy won’t change, so I’m done expecting them to and would like to see someone else’s ideas about how to run this team.
Give Foles the starting job after the bye and see what you have there. If he stinks, then the new coach will know what he’s got and can adjust accordingly. Letting Vick stay is inviting more inconsistent play an more turnovers.
1-3 in our last 4. If we don’t beat Atlanta we will be exactly where we were after 7 games last year,3-4. Let’s all just chew on that for a second.
Insane for people to call this season over, goodbye to reid and vick, but I’m sure there’s another Kotite out there somewhere.
D played very well up until the 4th quarter, then folded like a lawn chair. Offense did ok, but had plenty of mistakes and Vick throws 2 more interceptions, one of the bad decision variety, one of the poor throw variety. Special teams lost the battle of the awful special teams units.
It truly did feel like a team wide problem today. I think the OL had a rough game but we’d expect them to struggle, being down 2 starters. It’s the DL that has me confused, they have no injury excuses and they’re just not getting the job done at all.
Before the game it was thought that maybe Detroit was the antidote to the Eagles’ problems, but as it turns out, the Eagles were the antidote to the Lion’s problems.
I never understood it was assumed the Eagles would win. They are nothing more than average, with luck, and Detroit was nothing less than average, with bad luck. Two pretty closely matched teams.
Vintage 2011 Eagles. Can’t be giving up a 2 score lead in the 4th quarter. It’ was so weird to watch the team fall apart before my eyes. Just watching the level of play drop from bleh to awful. I was hoping that stopping them on the 1 yard line might bring some life to this team, or at least stanch the bleeding. Sure enough we come out in overtime and look even worse.
The worst part of all of this is that we are losing this thing in the trenches. The defensive line is thoroughly under-achieving. And it is looking like years of high draft picks before we get good O-line again. And lets face it, Howard Mudd isn’t in this thing for the long haul to coach them up. That’s my biggest concern in the short and long term. I just see a bunch of guys getting beat physically and mentally. Andy Reid offenses just don’t go without good line play. Fancy play calls are just ineffective without time. It’s not good.
The post-bye magic is going to need to do some overtime this year. Eh, why not, the pre-bye curse came through again.
Most frustrating part of this was that the Eagles were almost completely healthy coming into today (even got a few players who were out back including Cooper and Jordan). They had a couple of injuries during the game that hurt but that was frustrating.
Despite miserable miscues, our offense got us a 10 point lead with 5 minutes left in the game. Castillo’s game plan was pretty extraordinary. The only problem was that it seemed to rely on Nate Allen. As soon as he left the game, everything unraveled defensively. Losing Fletcher Cox clearly had an impact as well. This will be a long two weeks…
yea, losing Allen and Cox really hurt the gameplan. Allen was playing great before he got hurt
And I think we now need to give more of the credit for the improved run defense compared to last year to Cox. Things looked a lot like last year without him.
Players who did play well today:
– Henery: 3/3 on FG attempts including a 49-yarder and deep kickoffs all day
– Ryans: He wore down a bit in the 2nd half but he was busy today and made several plays. Wasn’t a play that jumps out where he was abused in coverage
– Coleman: Good day on special teams with 2 standout plays on coverage and an overall decent day on defense.
About the only part of this team that I thought played well as a unit were the LBs today. Got a lift back from Jordan and Kendricks did a nice job in coverage on Pettigrew & the Lions TEs.
Pretty short list though.
isn’t it strange how that works out though. Some of our big concerns coming into this season, Henery missing FG’s galore in the preseason. Ryans looking flat in the preseason. And Kurt, an undersized, not terribly athletic 7th round young safety that should be nowhere near a starting line up. Turns out to be having fine seasons to this point (although Coleman is by far the most up and down). DJax, who frankly I didn’t feel great about paying him his money, watched him blow it towards his passion in producing rap music with some friends he grew up with. Turns out that guy is playing well. Didn’t think him the type to take a big contract well.
Meanwhile I felt the safest that we had one of the best D-lines in the league. Now look at them, go figure. Just funny how the regular seasons tends to flip off-season perceptions on their head. Any ideas when Patt is coming back, I miss that guy. He didn’t have the stats but I swear he just played consistent football for the people around him to make plays, seemed to make the people around him better.
I could only watch this on NFL Red Zone so did not see much. From what I saw and the stats, I think the CB’s played great and pretty much everyone else sucked. I think the entire D was victimized from playing more than they should have. I think they ran out of gas because the O did not control the ball enough and because they were playing a team of young skill players coming off a break. To hold Megatron to 1 catch through 3Qs and not give up more than 13 point despite the usual negative TO ratio and the negative field position is very impressive. But I think they ran out of gas and the team with the bye was fresher. If the O gets a first down on the last series of regulation, we win and the D doesn’t run out of gas.
But the O has no excuse. I cannot understand how the running game of the Lions outgains ours. Vick seemed to be constantly under pressure and if there is no running game then the OL must have sucked. Vick played another mediocre game but who could excel with that OL? Maybe Eli but not every week.
The return game remains a joke.
The OPI call against Celek was bunk and arguably cost them the game.
Sad on here last week but this is the worst Eagles’ OL since the end of the Ray Rhodes era. It is a group that doesn’t do even one thing well.
Just out of curiosity – where does this O-line rank in terms of called penalties? I would venture it is Top 10.
Eagles were -2 today in turnover ratio. I would be curious to see the winning percentage of teams over the last decade but I would venture it would be somewhere in the 25-30% range.
The biggest knock on Vick is the turnovers and since that Chicago game in ’10 the Eagles are an astounding -30 in those 25 games he has started since then. Eagles are now just 13-12 in those 25 games.
When you turnover the ball over and have a defensive unit that doesn’t force a ton of turnovers, you simply won’t have a good record. That’s been the Eagles’ biggest and most glaring issue now for almost 2 years.
Part of it is Vick. Part of it is the defense (& Castillo).
Doesn’t it figure that Asante took one to the house in a close game for Atlanta. Found out about that play when I was praying for our D to do ANYTHING, sack, strip, int, PBU, ANYTHING! It drives me nuts that Nnamdi just doesn’t play the ball. His style, he just focuses on his guy so much. He almost always in textbook position. I don’t know if he’s watching his guy’s hips or other cue’s to give away his route, but he isn’t picking up cue’s that the ball is coming his way fast enough. Often, rather than turning around to track down the ball, he plays it safe and just tries to get his hand in a disruptive place. This is, if you aren’t looking to make a play on the ball, ANY contact is going to be PI. It’s safe, and generally reliable, but it ain’t play-making. DRC just shows lack of focus at times, along with bad hands. He dropped a pick today, just didn’t matter because Colt had a pretty bad PI on that play.
D is playing decent football on the stat sheets. But plays simply aren’t being made. I wish it didn’t matter. I would have killed to have this D in 2009 or 2010, but the O isn’t getting it done like it used to.
DRC is fine. Teams just aren’t throwing at him. Nnamdi played pretty well today but yeah he isn’t going to be a ball hawk.
That was Samuel’s first pick of the year too. I don’t know if he has a pick 6 vs Eagles in 2 weeks but I do bet he has an INT & plays a really good game vs them.
I think he will be fine as well. He has been excellent this year. And I’m certainly not saying I’d want Asante back over DRC. Just pointing out some flaws (over-critically perhaps). It’s weird, sometimes on snaps he is looking at the other team’s backfield, and he get’s beat off the line (half of those times he uses his ridiculous athleticism to recover well). Don’t know if he is expecting to jump on an extremely short route, or if he is getting some sort of read where he’s been warned of a screen coming his way or what. And when i talk about his hands, let me be clear, it isn’t like QB’s are tossing passes right to him, he is making awesome plays to be in positions to pick some of these balls, he’s just come up a tad short on a few.
Watching the highlights of that falcon’s game by the way. Joselio Hanson also had a pick that game (for the Raiders).
Sheldon Brown had a pick six today as well, rofl!
I thought Nnamdi today was on the verge of his first shutdown game in an Eagles uni. Of course he had help with Johnson, but of Calvin’s six catches today, three (for 50 yards) came after that last three-and-out by the Eagles offense. Had they converted and killed the clock there, we’d be looking at perhaps NA’s best game.
DRC looks to me like he’s loafing too often, and sometimes scared of contact. I played CB I know sometimes on the backside there’s no action, but you should at least be hustling and taking an angle in case a looks-like-a-tackle is not one. I appreciate dude’s coverage and that he goes hard off the edge to try to block kicks, but his run support is lamer than Asante’s. Asante wasn’t afraid of contact, he just launched and refused to wrap up.
It was really frustrating to see the d-line get consistently pushed off the ball in the 4th quarter when the Lions went to the run. Eagles dominated time of possession in the 3rd quarter & this unit should have been able to do a better job of containment.
Got pushed around badly and Johnson made a few big plays that really hurt them.
ESPN Stats:
“Michael Vick completed 3-of-11 passes (27.2 percent) for 35 yards and an
interception when under duress or hit while throwing Sunday against the
Lions. In his first five games, Vick was put under duress, hit or
sacked on 35.2 percent of his total dropbacks, the highest of any
qualified quarterback. Vick entered the game completing 29.1 percent of
his passes when under duress or hit while throwing, fourth-worst in the
league.”
At this point, I don’t even know what Reid & Marty can do to fix it
fire MM imo, but it cant be done before the season is over
Might be the only course, there are a lot of teams out there doing a lot more with a whole lot less. Mike Vick’s skill set, with this shaky O-line, and MM’s play calling is proving to be a bad mix. Either bench the QB, or replace the coach. Unfortunately there is no cavalry coming for the O-line this season.
MM is making good adjustments at the half. But that’s about all I can say good about him at the moment. You just don’t win games in this league when you take the first 15-25 minutes of the game off. And this has been every single week.
Noticed that too. I would be curious to see the numbers by quarter this year but the Eagles have bordered from below average to horrendous offensively on their initial drive & in the 1st quarter.
Eagles did have a few big plays today but also mixed a couple too. I wouldn’t mind if Reid takes more responsibility after the bye for play-calling on offense. That’s a reasonable suggestion.
I admit, I have never been a MM fan. For all the talent, this offense always seems to underarchive. I mean look at what the Redskins offense are doing with a rookie QB and worse RB, TE, and WR than the Eagles.
Tommy, I really feel MM needs to go after this season. This offense seems to be stuck (even on drives where we do not turn over the ball the offense seems to be very out of sync) while a team with less explosive players like the Redskins keep scoring alot.
giants had 6 sacks today. we have 7 all season
“The Eagles looked like a dumb team today. Andy Reid and his coaches have plenty to work on this upcoming week.”
Becoming a theme, no? They’ve played like this for nearly 2 years now. Reid doesn’t seem to have any answers for this.
A lot of it stems from Vick and the type of QB he is. Not a ‘dumb’ QB but he is just a QB really struggles vs blitz and is turnover-prone.
I hadn’t gone over to the dark side until this game, at least not completely. Vick makes a boatload of good plays each game, but then makes at least 4 or 5 disastrous ones that seem, at least to me, to be really unintelligent. I watched the Giants game immediately after ours, and Eli doesn’t have 1/4 of Vick’s athleticism or arm, but he really makes very few dumb plays. He throws the ball accurately, and to the right guy. Vick just HAS to cut down on the turnovers and stop holding the ball looking for the superman play like he did twice in OT. Do that, or get benched. I don’t think Foles can win with this team, but I know the current incarnation of Vick sure can’t.
2010 was the outlier on Vick. The rest of his career he’s been uniformly mediocre to bad.
I’d fire marty during the bye week. Of course I’d have fired marty almost every week for 18-24 months now
Yeah you would have.
Sometimes he’s impressive with what he draws up, but more often he’s maddening with his sequences of calls.
the sequencing is just…I can’t fathom the thinking sometimes.
Was I the only person who thought (as dumb as it sounds) that the Eagles should have been using their timeouts on that final Detroit drive in regulation?
I mean I have zero confidence in them, and I guess Reid has confidence in them, but I was thinking – stop the clock try and get an extra possession.
Agreed. Myself and Merrill Reese were right there with you. We got very lucky they didn’t score a TD. I was convinced they would get the walk-off TD because we didn’t leave ourselves any time when we could have. At the very least it would have helped a very tired looking D. Forcing them to take a FG with time on the clock would have been big (Essentially it would give us a free shot at winning before overtime, and who knows with their ST’s). And maybe with the extra breathing time, maybe that drive isn’t so prolonged. Or maybe it gives them time to huddle up and draw up the perfect play to score a TD right away. Either way we have time on the clock to work with.
No heart out there. IMO that gets placed at the coach’s feet. Dillon Panthers would’ve run us off the field today. They look like they’re trudging through a 3rd shift at a box factory.
I get to live in Bolivia. A random Sunday game when I get to watch the Eagles in Spanish results in me laughing at “Ass””O”Moo””Gah” over and over until it gets old. Today was a special treat…
Unfortunately today on the first offensive series I was wishing for Randall Cunningham and Buddy Ryan. Little did I know I should have saved that tweet for overtime.
Holy cow. This seemed to be a complete team loss.
This is the first time this season we can say the Special Teams were actually the best unit on the field.
I won’t go so far as to blame Vick, but I can see very little reason (given his propensity to give the ball away – luck or whatever) not to look for some other option at QB. Anybody who thinks MV7 is going to get the TO thing turned around this year is kidding themselves.
But what are the options?
I also don’t want to say Edwards (not that he was active or anything) or Foles would have given us a better chance to win. Trent is a known commodity and likely the dude I’d choose to run the team for an extended period of time _this_ year – if Vick were to blow out an Achilles or something. Foles is somebody you want to get experience in the event of a tweaked pinky, today.
I’m pretty sure it’s not even really Vick’s fault – the offensive line is well… Offensive? That said, one of those INTs was absolutely on Vick…
The neighbors around here must really think I’m a crazy gringo now – Maclin scores a 70 yard TD and it’s, “Woo Hooo!”
Three minutes later, “Are you F’ing kidding me?! You GUYS ARE GOING TO KILL ME?!!!”
Three minutes later. “F.”
TV off…
Give me some medicine Tommy…
Through 6 weeks this season heading into the bye week, I think some of the observations we can make are:
1. This offense is simply not very good right now. We are averaging 17.2 pts/gm and are currently 31st in the league in that stat. Yards/game mean absolutely nothing if you are not converting those yards into points, and 6games into the season, it is no longer an anomaly, but a trend (and you could argue it is also the same trend we saw last year).
2. Vick is probably hurting this offense more than he is helping it right now. I’m not arguing whether or not we need to put Foles in over Vick, I’m simply focusing on Vick right now. He has 9 fumbles (1.5 per game), 6 lost fumbles (1 per game), and 8 INTs (1.3 per game). His mere 8 TDs and 272 yds/gm passing plus 1 TD and 34.2 yds/gm rushing doesn’t come close to making up for all the turnovers, so it is not like outside of the turnovers he is playing lights out.
3. I don’t think it is fair to use the OLine as a scapegoat for Vick, they certainly aren’t helping matters. I don’t care that Peters and Kelce are out, we are doing a terrible job at blocking and guys like Herremans and Watkins have made more than their fair share of mistakes, so it is not simply backups missing blocks.
4. Our DLine is not getting the job done. earlier in the season, we were getting pressure despite not racking up the sack stats, but we didn’t even manage to put a ton of pressure against either the Steelers or the Lions. We are using a scheme that preaches pressure as the key to success, partially at the risk of exposing LBers and safeties in the run game, so if we are not getting pressure, it is an even bigger issue. As of right now, what was perceived to be THE strength of our team is not only playing below expectations but is simply playing poorly.
5. Our STs played a ton better today, but they still gave u a big return. They have to eliminate those mistakes or else it will likely hurt us badly as some point this season.
I do think some of this mistakes can be fixed, some others may be too hard to fix. I have my doubts that Vick is going to turn into a QB who protects the ball better as we move forward for example, and if he keeps turning the ball over, there is absolutely no way we have any kind of significant playoff success.
When the Lions had 1st and goal from the 1 and time for one play before the field goal, I was hoping we would grab every receiver and sling them to the ground. Sure, we get a penalty and it is first down again, but they would have been forced to kick anyway.
Never promote your Oline coach to DC…
I wish I had time to do the research on this, but I feel like every game the Eagles settle for field goals in the red zone eventually comes back to bite them.
Not that they so clearly outplayed Detroit that they should have been leading by more, but kicking 26-yard field goals always burns them, it seems.
The D was also having a nice day, and Nnamdi was earning his shutdown money til crunchtime.
But as you note, you can point the finger at everything, from their plays in OT to their coverage on the tying drive — although remember, they held at the goal line when they could have lost it in regulation — to playcalls to the run game and the OL to … This is a total argh.
Falcons, like the Lions, totally don’t scare me. Here’s hoping they’re
still unbeaten when they come out of the bye so they can get served.
Typical
pre-bye Eagles BTW, .500 football. Second half improvement will come
like usual, I hope, but 4-2 would have been much more bearable.
Since the Falcons also have a bye coming up next week, they should still be 6-0 coming into our game, as long as the replacement refs don’t come back. If they do, all bets are off.
Tommy and whoever else:
week in and week out we routinely play down to the level of the team we are playing (with the exception of the AZ game). Now I fully acknowledge that the NFL is driven by parity, but something has to give, right? Is this indictive of us just being a very, very mediocre team or could this be a sign of something greater – such as coaching/culture of the team?
I just find it extremely perplexing that we routinely find ourselves in the same situation over and over again. We can beat the Giants in a close one, but can’t put away inferior teams. We can beat the Ravens, but then luck ourselves into beating Cleveland. Is this simply a lack of focus? A lack of killer instinct? A too loose atmosphere and false sense of arrogance that we beat anybody?
We once again played down to the level of our opponent (although I must say their front 7 came ready to play) and it bit us in the end. We got too comfortable, settled, and then got lit up when it mattered most. Ugh, it’s games like this that make me wonder why I even set high expectations for this team.
Long time reader, first time poster.
I’m typically on the more optimistic side after about an hour of being ticked off about a loss, but after watching this offense continue to go back to the things that have not worked all season is beyond frustrating. This big play offense they keep trying to run is failing, and the fact that we have had some success just settling for taking modest chunks of yardage makes it even more frustrating when Marty and Andy think it’s going to magically come alive.
I know Andy makes adjustments after the bye, but I’m highly concerned that if they haven’t already seen that this passing O can’t produce with a QB doing 7-step drops that we are going to be seeing the end of the Andy era (which I’m not particularly in favor of yet).
Anyways Tommy,do you know if MM is calling most of the plays after the scripted material? If so, do you see Andy taking more of an active role in making the calls going forward?
I’m on a self imposed exile from NFL related things for a couple weeks. I just can’t deal with this team right now. I’ll probably check back week 8, in time for the falcons game. I’m just losing the energy to put up with this group.
Like I said a few weeks ago, this team has 3 big issues; all of which are crucial to being a good team. Poor Oline play, poor game day coaching, and poor QB play. I’m not shocked at all that this team lost. I happily took Detroit and the points.
I’ve maintained that they may make playoffs, but I think I was giving them too much credit. This is just a mediocre team now that the Dline doesn’t generate pressure. Roughly .500 since teams figured out blitzing this offense is a no-brainer???
Tommy, “played like a dumb team today”???? This is the most undisciplined, dumbest team in the NFL. Fletcher Cox throwing a punch? Curtis Marsh picking up a penalty on 3rd down to keep a drive alive? Its all par for the course and has been for this team for some time now! It starts right at the top too. This was the typical, AR-coached Eagles team, annua,l pre-bye-week clunker. We’ve seen this movie before and it ends the same. How many times can we watch ‘Titanic’ before we realize the ship sinks everyone dies, including Leo DiCaprio?? Why did the Titanic sink? Stupidity and arrogance!! Sound familiar?!
The inconsistency from week to week is maddening. Why can’t a HC coaching for 14 season get his team to put a measley two consistenly good games together?? That’s inexcusable!
Why does the defense go totally away from what was working for 3 quarters? What were those hideous play calls when we had the ball with the lead and trying to milk the clock with a little over 5 minutes to go?? Why are we dropping Mike Vick back in a 7-step drop in OT?!? It only took them 2 quarters to figure out eveytime they called that their QB was getting beat like a punching bag; only to revert back to that type of stupid, illogical playcalling at the most critical time in the game!
I can’t take it anymore. I’ve got Andy Reid fatigue and I need him gone at seasons end. I can only hope this team goes 8-8 or worse to ensure that AR is no longer the HC of this football team. We fans deserve better!