Not A 1-Year Situation

Posted: January 18th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 85 Comments »

Timing is everything.  Andy Reid was hired in January of 1999.  The Eagles had the #2 pick in the upcoming draft.  That draft was loaded with QB prospects.  Reid was able to get Donovan McNabb and the rest is history.

Chip Kelly takes over the Eagles and also has a Top 5 pick, but the draft is not loaded with top QB talent.  There are some players to like, but none of them feel worthy of a Top 5 pick.

Had Reid had the 1998 draft to work with, he’d have taken Ryan Leaf (or some other position).  Had Reid been dealing with the 2000 draft, there would have been no QB.  The first one off the board was Chad Pennington at #18.  Reid had good timing, taking over the Eagles in 1999.  This time around he and the Eagles aren’t in as nearly ideal of a situation.

Fans want to know what Kelly will do at QB.  Will he try to keep Vick?  Will he keep Nick Foles?  Will he trade for someone?  Will he draft someone?  Here’s the thing to keep in mind…Chip Kelly needs a long term QB to get the Eagles back to where we want them to be, but that player may not be available this offseason.

The worst thing for Kelly to do would be to force the situation and reach for a QB.  It would be better to keep Foles and see how he played in 2013 than to overdraft someone or make a trade for a player who isn’t worth it.  If the right player is available and Kelly really likes the guy, Kelly will go get him, whether draft, trade, or free agency.

I think too many fans are assuming the Eagles will find a long term solution at QB this offseason.  That’s possible, but not a given.

Kelly isn’t here just for 2013.  Reaching for a QB could be a waste of time and/or resources.

Now understand that I’m not saying he can’t draft someone a bit early.  Most QBs get overdrafted.  The point is that Kelly can’t be unreasonable. Pick #4 has serious value.  If there is a QB worth it, go for it.  But don’t reach. You can find an impact starter there at another spot.  As we’ve seen with SF and SEA in the last couple of years, you’re better off to build as good a team as possible and find a QB outside the 1st round if the right guy isn’t available.  Of course you cannot count on landing Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick, but part of the point is that those guys have benefited from playing on teams where there is less pressure on them.

Remember McNabb in 2000?  The Eagles lived and died with him.  He was the offense.  There were 5 games of 30 or more points, but also 7 games of 16 or less.  The high scoring games usually involved big plays by the defense or STs.

Nick Foles had little shot to win games in 2012 because the team around him wasn’t good enough.  The lowest point total by an opponent was 21.  And we did win that game over Tampa, 23-21.  New coaches will help the 2013 team be better, but talent upgrades are also needed.  Whether we have Foles or Alex Smith or a draft pick or whoever…the overall team must be better.

I don’t know if Chip will find his stud QB this year.  If he doesn’t find someone he’s smitten with, then use the resources to upgrade the overall roster so that when we do get a QB he’ll have that much better of a team around him.  This isn’t a 1-year situation.

* * * * *

I’m sure you guys have a ton of questions about QB prospects in the draft.  I’ll focus on them while down in Mobile.  I don’t have strong opinions of the players right now.  There are things to like about several guys, but also some issues with each of them.  There may not be a guy to love at pick #4, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be a QB to covet.  Think about the final 4 teams left.  You have a Top 5 guy (Matt Ryan), a mid-1st rounder (Joe Flacco), a 2nd rounder (Colin Kaepernick), and a 6th rounder (Tom Brady).  QBs don’t have to be taken super early.  It helps to have a franchise QB prospect to covet, but time has proven that a lot of what helps QBs to succeed is having the right coach and the right team around them.

* * * * *

Marty Mornhinweg is now the OC for the Jets.  Good for Marty.  That job is high risk, high reward.  If he can fix that offense, he’ll look like a genius.  Laugh if you want, but neither Brian Schottenheimer or Tony Sparano is anywhere close to Marty’s level as a QB guru.  The good news for Jets fans is that Rex will push the run on Marty.  Here Marty and Andy were both pass-happy.  That’s kinda like having Max Jean-Gilles as my diet coach.  “C’mon Tommy…one more pizza won’t hurt.”

Marty has a huge challenge, but I think he might surprise some people with the way he’s able to get that offense into the 21st century.  I don’t think Marty will pull off any miracles and turn Mark Sanchez into a top QB, but I do think you’ll see definite improvement.

* * * * *

Todd Bowles will go to Arizona to be the DC for Bruce Arians.  Bowles played for Arians at Temple and they worked together in Cleveland under Butch Davis.

Bowles is a better coach than 2012 would lead you to believe.  He did a good job with the secondary in the first 6 games of the year.  The Eagles were Top 5 (I think Top 2) in both opposing QB rating and completion percentage.  DRC was playing well.  Nnamdi had just played his best game of the year (vs Megatron).  Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman were okay.  Brandon Boykin looked pretty good.

Then Juan Castillo got fired and Todd got his job.  This meant Todd no longer could focus on the DBs.  Their play slipped, especially DRC.  He played awful for the first month after the bye.  Bowles also tried to install his system and that led to some blown assignments.  Things actually got better for 3 games.  Tampa, Cincy, and the Skins rematch were games where the defense showed some signs of life.  Nothing to get crazy about, but enough that you could see Bowles had made improvement and his players were listening to him.

I know from the outside Bowles looks like a terrible coach, but that is circumstances more than reality.  I think he’ll do a solid job for the Cardinals.  He does inherit some quality pieces.  The first time he sees Daryl Washington in practice, Todd might faint.  He didn’t see a LB anything like that here in Philly.  I don’t know if Todd is a legitimately good DC.  I’m curious to see what he can do.

_


  • D-von

    I think Foles can be the guy, but at this point Im just guessing. I do like his decision making for a rookie and his apparent work ethic. However I think the more immediate problem is the secondary. Do the Eagles blow up the whole unit, salvaging only a few players or refit the unit with a handful a upgrades to cultivate competition? I think Nnamdi is gone regardless so for me the answer lies with DRC. Does Chip and the new DC believe that DRC can be a stud CB or is he to inconsistent for them? Having a stud CB makes it easier to buildup a good secondary

  • bridgecoach

    Great post. Does Morningweg’s new position have any implications for Vick?

    • TommyLawlor

      There were some writers on Twitter today saying not to expect a MM/Vick reunion. Probably Jets financial issues as much as anything, but could be Marty got tired of Vick and the turnovers.

      • T_S_O_P

        Didn’t Sanchez outdo Vick in that respect last year?

  • austinfan

    Foles’ last four starts, 61% complete, 7 YPA, 5-2, 85 QB rating.

    Go look at Geno Smith against the top 4 or 5 pass defenses he faced, he didn’t do much better, and that was against college defenses that were far from elite, with top skill players.

    Not saying Foles is a great player, but he has shown he can play with a subpar OL against NFL defenses, no QB in the draft can make that claim.

    • D3FB

      How dare you! The Big 12 is clearly stacked with defenses on par with the 85 Bears and 00 Ravens!

    • Arby1

      And Geno Smith looked horrible in that bowl game!

    • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

      Review Geno Smith against LSU in 2011:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvrXu9Fsvpk

      He held his own and was very impressive from the pocket against a secondary with 5 NFL prospects and a line with at least 4 NFL prospects.

      -Kiki Mingo
      -Sam Montgomery
      -Michael Brockers
      -Bennie Logan

      -Kevin Minter

      -Morris Claiborne
      -Tyrann Matthieu
      -Eric Reid
      -Tharold Simon
      -Ron Brooks

      One of the most talented college defenses of all time. Too bad the offense was so mediocre.

  • D-von

    Anybody seen this Jim Nantz interview? Trying to figure out whats going on

    • TommyLawlor

      No, but Adam Caplan made it sound like a joke.

  • aerochrome2

    Tommy, I just watched the fishduck video tutorials… I know we won’t run the exact same offense, but I couldn’t help but think how our offensive personnel fits, especially beyond the q b…you planning a post on anything like that?

    • TommyLawlor

      I’ll get to that at some point. I’ll touch on it soon, but may not get too heavy there until post-draft. We’ve got a lot to discuss with coaches , FA, and the draft for the next 3 months.

      • aerochrome2

        Fair enough

    • SleepingDuck

      I’m hoping that Chip still runs the inside and outside zone reads seeing how Shady can benefit from them with all of the cutback lanes that appear. I still find it weird that Shady retweeted Ike Reese’s tweet that he was glad Chip didn’t come initially.

      • aerochrome2

        Just from watching the videos it SEEMS like he could be a perfect fit… that is if he was willing to become a bit more disciplined. As I see it, he would have a greenlight to hit the cutback lanes, but I don’t think Kelly would stand for him dancing or always looking to cut back, as that seems to defeat the purpose.

      • Skeptic_Eagle

        I think one of the things you can count on with a Chip Kelly offense is IZ/OZ runs, with or without the read-option involved. I’m not sure Shady is the best back to run that, because, historically, that’s been a one-cut, get up the field runner that’s done really well in that offense. The ZBS is supposed to do the heavy lifting for plays like that, and the RB isn’t required to have the kind of elusiveness Shady has–certainly Alfred Morris wasn’t blowing anyone away with his actual skill set.

        I think Shady is best suited for the kind of system the Eagles have been running–the pass, to set up the draw. I’m sure we’ll see some of those plays, but it’s conceivable that Shady is not as productive as he was under Reid.

    • http://twitter.com/bebinabraham bebin abraham

      as you are waiting for Tommy’s piece check out this piece based on the fishduck video tutorials over at Bleeding Green http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/12/26/3803606/the-chip-kelly-conundrum

      • aerochrome2

        Thanks

  • A_T_G

    Reposting from 150ish comments deep the other night. Just something to consider:

    “I catch myself watching him in awe sometimes … Nick [Foles] is a hell of a football player. That kid’s a warrior. He’s as good as anyone in the country.”

    -Chip Kelly, 2011

    • TommyLawlor

      Chip will give Nick a fair chance, so to speak. If we deal Nick it will only be for the right offer (pick 34 from KC?). If Nick stays, he’ll have a shot to start in 2013. Doesn’t mean he’ll keep the job long term, but Chip will give him a chance to show what he can do.

      • deg0ey

        Does pick 34 swing it on its own, or does that count on Chip having found something in the draft that he likes better?

        • TommyLawlor

          If you’re willing to deal Foles, it means you have already acquired another QB for 2013 or have a solid draft plan.

      • austinfan

        One advantage for Chip to work with Nick is that it would force him to adopt his system for an immobile QB – and that would make it more NFL friendly and provide him with more options.

        1) Nick runs a passing version of the read option so well he becomes the franchise QB
        2) Nick runs a passing version of the read option well enough to be the short-term starter until a more suitable replacement is groomed, and Nick becomes primo trade bait.
        3) Nick flops, which means he’s back where he is right now, no harm, no foul, since he still has to develop a replacement QB (unless you think a Russell Wilson falls into our laps and can start as a rookie).

        By learning how to make it work without the run option, Chip now has more flexibility with regard to injury (remember the 2nd Redskin game when RGIII was too banged up to run?), backup QBs and also making teams play the read option honestly, that is, by making a pass option a big part of that system, the QB is less likely to get hit (because he can throw it away when there’s no running lane).

    • Arby1

      And I think Chip went on and on about him at the press conference about toughness and accuracy, as opposed to how little he said about Vick. I definitely think Foles is the focus for 2013.

  • Steag209

    I trust Chip to figure out the offense, it’s the defense that scares me

  • RC5000

    That’s the thing. You take Geno Smith at 4, you’re using the resource and making a commitment that he’s your guy and he’s not a great runner. Also seems to be a 1 or 2 read QB. He has a good arm but so does Glennon and Nassib.
    You have guys like Florence and Scott you can get much later as 3rd QB types who don’t have a lot of overall game experience in college but they are athletic and did run for 500 or so yards. Baylor runs some of that stuff.
    I have to say I’m not really high on Manuel but he also is a better runner than Geno. Geno’s tough because he did have a great run throwing into big windows early in the year but he seems to really struggle at times if he’s defended properly. He also had the best playmaker in college with Austin and Bailey’s been extremely reliable. You need players like that but it’s another consideration.
    Foles is smart in my opinion and is pretty good at selling and throwing some of the passes (accurately) Kelly likes and did run the hurry up a ton at Arizona so why not just put him in the mix as the frontrunner at least vs using the 4th overall pick on a QB. Kelly should of course look at all the QBs in the draft.
    I’m not sure I buy the threat to run theory in the NFL with the zone read option unless you’re Kaepernick, Wilson, RG3. If you’re just a guy who can run a little like Geno, DCs and defenses will figure it out and go to the ballcarrier.

    • D3FB

      The thing is if defenses always go for the ballcarrier, then the QB will have a massive lane to run through. Even Foles will be able to pick up enough to keep the defenses honest. If you say that the Safety will just run the alley and crush the QB, that is when you start to get into some of the fake zone read playaction type of playcalls that just completely confuse the hell out of the defense. Also not sure if Kelly does it but I know some of the Mike Leach disciples will run a zone read, but if the QB keeps it, instead of running it he has a quick bubble screen. The idea that the zone read won’t work in the NFL is a complete joke from the simple standpoint that you can account for every defensive player from a blocking standpoint and that means in order to stop it someone on the defense has to win a one on one battle.

      Granted all this said I honestly don’t think we are going to see a ton of Zone read from Chip, I’m guessing 5 plays a game, but the notion that it won’t work is complete nonsense.

      • RC5000

        The points were in context of the QB choice(s) and running the zone read option frequently.

      • RC5000

        Re: The thing is if defenses always go for the ballcarrier, then the QB will have a massive lane to run through. Even Foles will be able to pick up enough to keep the defenses honest.
        Chip Kelly has said he would never run a zone read with Brady/Manning obviously in the NFL. He also has written on this matter that the concept is based on having a running threat at QB. You need a fast QB to run it alot. The context is I;m not in favor of drafting someone like Geno Smith at 4 who is not a runner to run the plays a few times a game because he’s a little bit faster than Foles.

      • ceteris_paribus1776

        I don’t think anyone has ever said that using the zone read within your offense can’t work. What people are saying is that using zone read as your base offense likely won’t work long-term in the NFL. Running a handful of plays out of the pistol isn’t the same thing as lining up like that almost exclusively and running variants from that formation.

        In terms of accounting for everyone from a blocking stand point, that’s no different than running your base offense out of 21 personne l. With 7 typically in the box, you have 5 on the Oline, 1 TE, and 1 FB. Everyone is accounted for and someone from the secondary has to make the play or one of your front 7 has to beat their one-on-one block. The zone-read doesn’t change that principle because the running back isn’t a designated blocker int the zone read.

  • http://twitter.com/theguyotc the guy

    Hypothetical question: would you prefer the Eagles bottom out last year with pick #4 and a chance at one of those QBs, or this year and get Chip Kelly?

    • deg0ey

      With hindsight and seeing what future resources it has cost the Skins to move up from 6 to 2, it’s hard to see that as something I’d be comfortable with. I get that if you don’t have a QB in this league, you’re not gonna win, but all it takes is one career ending injury (which he may or may not already have) and your investment is wasted. That’s a lot of resources to put on one guy.

    • Anders

      I rather have Chip, tho RG3+AR offense could have been deadly

  • T_S_O_P

    Last year in one game Jim Washburn got into it physically with Marty. Buddy Ryan once punched Kevin Gilbride. I’m thinking that it could go terribly wrong for Marty.

    • TommyLawlor

      Hadn’t considered that angle. If Rex gets a tattoo of MM, he’ll be fine.

  • DanJ3645

    If Chip doesn’t believe in the QBs available this year should we then expect / hope that we trade back with the #4 pick and try and acquire a 1st this year and an extra 1st next. With the aim of being able to trade up to get whatever QB we covert in the 2014 draft?
    I’m hoping that Nick Foles shows enough that He gets the job. He just seemed to handle the situation last year really well.

  • nickross23

    Damn if only Clemson’s Tajh Boyd would of come out he would be a perfect fit probably for what Chip might want to do with this offense.only real concern with him is official height. They list him a 6’2 but he might be closer to 6’0, which brings me to a lil fun fact. Since 1983 outside of Drew Brees all Super Bowl winning QB has been listed 6’2 or taller.

  • http://twitter.com/bebinabraham bebin abraham

    Hey Tommy if Chip does get a QB in the draft what do you think about Matt Scott from Arizona aka Nick Foles’s backup at ‘Zona

    • http://twitter.com/KeeepSwinging Anthony Hart

      I’d like him as a late rounder/development guy but no way could he come in and start for a while. Good athlete, strong arm, but no accuracy. People at the Shrine Game have said that he throws an incredible spiral but nobody has any idea where it will go.

    • TommyLawlor

      He’s got potential. Has the skill set Chip likes. Not someone you project to be an NFL starter necessarily, but the potential is there.

  • Ian

    If next years draft is loaded with elite QB talent as is reported, what
    is the harm of trading some picks for next years draft? An extra first
    next year coupled with our likely .500 or so record could do some damage
    if in fact a QB is what we want. Long-term, with a new coach and
    system, this seems somewhat logical to me beyond the “win now”
    philosophy.

    Thoughts?

    • TommyLawlor

      This is possible. It would go against Howie & Chip’s aggressive nature, but might make sense. If you move back from #4 to the middle of the 1st round and add next year’s 1st from someone…that would be something to consider. However, if the Eagles see a stud player available at #4, they’ll probably take that player. Don’t get that high often. If the right guy is there, get him. Just don’t know if there are studs available.

    • holeplug

      Mostly cause its too hard to project that far in the future. Remember this time last year when everyone was raving about what a great prospect Matt Barkley was? Even Geno Smith this year was becoming a RG3 level prospect until he cooled off towards the end.

    • Skeptic_Eagle

      Yes, I like that plan. I think if you can pick up another 1st next year, and a 3rd or 4th this year, to double up on a safety pick, to rebuild the secondary, go for it. You figure a QB is going sometime before the Eagles pick–overdrafted–which leaves the Eagles with a choice of the top 3 BPAs in the entire draft. Even in a weak draft, if someone falls in love with one of those guys, we might be able to get some real value in exchange for #4. #4 is really a good spot to be picking in.

  • nopain23

    With pick #4 there is no QB in the draft worth that pick. Tommy it’s rumored that we are switching to a 3-4 defense. At 4, i would love us to take Joeckel but I think AI grabs him at 1. At 4 we have to take the best NT in the draft ,Star, or the best rush OLB, Jones. We cant afford to miss at 4 especially switching to a 3-4. There are several missing pieces on this team if we make the switch . NT and OLB(2 of em) are the biggest needs. Then we need an entire new secondary. NNamdi DRC, coleman should be jettisoned. Allen has talent. He just needs to get his head screwed on straight. It’s both and exciting and frightening time to be an eagles fan. I’m just looking forward to seeing a new product on the field(offense and defense)
    If we do make the switch
    First three picks should be1RD Jones (OLB)2nd RD,jessie williams( NT)3(RD)Bacarri Rambo

    • Anders

      Does Jones injury history not scare you? Also I might be biased, but I really like Dion Jordan if we switch to a 3-4. I have no problems taking Jessie Williams in the 2nd, but not sure I want Rambo at all.

      • nopain23

        Like Kelly..I look at Jones as big risk ..big reward. Since he left SC he’s been nothing short of spectacular. If the Philly medically staff clears him then I’m all in. Think of it like Manning after his neck surgeries.If he wasn’t the talented QB that he is.no way Broncos hand the franchise over to him. Jones is not just a one year flash in the pan.He’s been “balling out” for 2 years… in the SEC mind you.I recognize the risk but i think he’s worth it. With regards to Rambo at safety I like E. Reid better but NO WAY he lasts until the 3RD.

        • Anders

          Problem is that the injury that Jones got was the same injury there ended Marcus McNeil’s career after just 4 years.

          • Zach

            Marcus McNeil actually had that injury going into the draft, which was why he slipped to the 2nd round. And he played

            Chris Samuels (Redskins Tackle) apparently had the genetic version of it and he was done by 32.

            I think you have to look at this from a coach’s perspective. How many players normally play great past the age of 29? Can you really pass on such an elite talent, because he may develop a condition in 6-8 years that forces him to retire? What if he helps you win a superbowl or two before that? Was it worth it?

            Coach’s are like politicians. Philosophically, they should be concerned about ten years down the road, but they’re typically only looking to the end of their term.

          • Anders

            I admit I havnt studied his disease to much, its just a red flag for me. If he checks out find, he dont mind taking him

          • Zach

            I would as well. His overall career might be short but if you get even 4-6 years of Demarcus Ware/Shawne Merriman production, I think it’s worth it.

  • dislikedisqus

    Yup. As far as 13 goes, Foles is best available. Like you, I would stay with him. But i worry that Kelly sounds like he is going to surround himself with “his guys” and I wonder if that extends to the QB.

  • P_P_K

    I’m going into this season believing that Foles can be an NFL caliber qb and, yes, good enough to lead a team to the SB. The key word is “lead,” as opposed to “carry,” which was what the Andy & Marty show needed from a qb. Nick will hopefully have a healthy O line, a 1-2 running attack, good + receivers, and decent tight ends. He’ll also have a Head Coach who wants to use all his weapons. If the young man continues to develop, I think he can be our guy.

    • Anders

      Im currently watching the Texans vs Pats playoff game again. I can really invision us running something very similar with more 3 WRs sets and less TE’s sets. When looking at the Pats the only 2 places they are better then us on offense is QB (makes a huge difference tho) and TE. We are much better at OL when healthy( a big part of Kelly’s offense), got much better WR’s and much better RB’s (2nd most important part of Kelly’s offense)

  • P_P_K

    I don’t know if this is going to sound weird, but do any of you guys ever have dreams about the Eagles? Last night I had a dream I was talking to Chip. I even asked him if he thought we would win a Lombardi!

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.w.cho Michael Winter Cho

      I think I had a dream where I was hanging with Donovan! Actually, the weirdest thing was when the Eagles hired me to play guitar for an event they were holding here in AZ. The check had the logo on it, and I photocopied it and kept it as a souveneir :)

  • bdbd20

    I really like what Chip had to say about Nick’s toughness. It’s a quality that’s often overlooked when talking about QB’s. A lot of guys can look brilliant in 7-on-7. Obviously the great ones are exceptional with pressure in their face.

    I look forward to Nick playing this year with a clean slate and a commitment to the running game.

  • eagleizeit

    Tommy step 1. Would you consider trading Foles to B’more 4 Travard Taylor, their 3rd rd pick this yr a a late draft pick in ’14 & possibly a 1st or 2nd rd consideration in ’15(he might beat out Flacco, especially if Flacco gets injured and Foles shines in that O). step 2. Give SF that 3rd rd pick & future draft considerations for Alex Smith. Step 3. Cut Vick that way he could go to KC with AR(they could draft 1 of the 5 QB’s in 1st half of 2nd rd) and then Geno Smith will fall to us at 4 since we’d already have a couple QB’s; in which case we could trade him to Buffalo(8th pick, where we can get that dominant NT from Ohio State their early 2nd rd pick & next years 1st rd pick). Bills according to walterfootball.com want to move up from the 8th pick & get QB Geno Smith. Our biggest need if we move to a 3-4 Dfense is obviously NT(getting a possible 10 year Pro Bowler like that OSU cat wouldn’t hurt. Taylor might be a perfect fit, backing up Alex Smith at 1st, in Chip’s type of O just like Foles could be a natural Pro-Bowler in B-more’s O(once he takes over 4 Flacco).

    • Skeptic_Eagle

      haha, wow, you want to give Delaware Joe a shot at his second consecutive AFC Conference Championship Game before giving his job away to Nick Foles?

      • eagleizeit

        Tyrod Taylor is a backup right now & I’m sure if we traded Foles there he would start off(maybe end up) as the backup as well.

        • shah8

          In preseason, Taylor has been the more dynamic QB.

          Also, the chances that the Ravens will trade him are minuscule, from what I understand.

          • eagleizeit

            I would agree normally, but Foles size and style of play behind the OL would give them a chance to not miss much, or have a completely different player than Flaco if he were to get injured. Foles has also looked like a better player during regular season games in his rookie year than Taylor has in regular season games the past two years. That’s why I’m guessing they’d be more than willing to give up Taylor, their late 3rd rd pick this year and possible undisclosed future draft picks for Foles.

          • shah8

            Foles started for a stretch, Taylor has not ever started, and has all of 30 passing attempts during the regular season. Rust and reps are material aspects to the passing game.

            Seriously, though, Harbaugh is not trading Taylor for the same reason the Vikings will probably not cut/trade Webb. NFL grade arm, excellent athlete (in Webb’s case, elite on the ground), and they don’t look like Ryan Lindley or Rusty Smith in terms of decision making, most of the time.

    • ACViking

      Just so I’m clear, you’re proposing the Ravens trade Taylor, a 6th Rd pick in 2011, plus a 2013 3rd rounder, plus a 6th/7th Rd pick in 2013, plus a condition 1st or 2nd Rdr in 2015 . . . for Nick Foles?

      That’s possibly 5 players — including a 1st round pick — for Nick Foles.

      Why exactly would the Ravens do that?

      • eagleizeit

        Taylor, their late 3rd rd pick this year a 6th or 7th in ’14 is 1 player & 2 picks that aren’t worth an arm and leg really. The ’15 POSSIBLE CONSIDERATION would be based on some SLIM contingencies. Examples could be he becomes their starter and/or starter who makes Pro Bowl. Maybe he starts 10 games over the next 2 years and we get a 3rd or 4th rd pick, maybe we get nothing in ’15 etc. etc.

  • eagleizeit

    We could always draft 1 of those 5 QB’s that walterfootball.com has graded between 38-49 with 1 of those 2 early 2nd rd picks we’d have; if Coach Kelly likes 1 of them. Then we’d have 3 QB’s that could compete and fit better in Coach Kelly’s offense(Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor and the 2nd rd pick) and we would have the same amount of draft picks we have now even if we used that 2nd rd pick on that QB.

  • eagleizeit

    I like Foles a lot, but having 3 promising QB’s that would fit a little better in Coach Kelly’s type of offense competing with each other for 1st, 2nd and 3rd string seems a lot better. Also giving Foles a great opportunity in an offense that would fit Foles better(in the Ravens; AFC) seems like a lot better of a choice than putting all your eggs in 1 basket by relying completely on Foles and more than likely devaluing his value, as well as his chances of success in the NFL in a year from now.

    • D-von

      Coach Kelly’s “offense” is just a philosophy of using the players strengths to the offense’s advantage. You can’t look at Oregon’g style of football and believe he would replicate the whole thing. Would Kelly like a QB with some running ability? Of course that allows for more options on offense. But Kelly is gonna to build an offense tailored to the players he has. Only way Foles is out is if Kelly feels that he’s not a good QB.

      • eagleizeit

        I don’t think many people think Foles is bad, or that Coach Kelly is bringing the same offense. I also agree that he brings out the strengths in players to strengthen the offense as a whole. My point is that havering 3 players(Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor and the 2nd-6th QB picked in the draft who he thinks can be extremely successful) while not giving up a draft pick or anything accept Foles really isn’t a bad thing or a degrading Foles in anyway. If you could have 3 talented QB’s that happen to fit with what you’ve been extremely successful with than what’s the point of taking all the risks and pressure in forcing 1 very inexperienced young player with a very different skill set to carry the team. Any intelligent coach that’s creative should bring out, or at least try to bring out the strengths in all his players and develop a system around that obviously; but beyond that if you can upgrade to a more secure, talented, proven and studied QB’s that give you a better chance of success from starter to 3rd string wouldn’t you agree that’s a lot wiser.

        • D-von

          What makes Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor better alternatives to Nick Foles? Before Harbaugh got to SF, Smith was terrible. People question his heart, mental toughness and even his hand size. He’s played much better under Harbaugh, buts he’s not asked to do much in his system. Taylor is more of a unknown than Foles is right now because he hasn’t played outside of preseason. I like Taylor and wish the Eagles drafted him, but that being said we wouldn’t know what we have with Taylor, which makes our QB situation worse.

          • eagleizeit

            You left out the drafting of a QB, 2-6th one picked in the draft, in the early 2nd rd that Coach Kelly would be really high on. But anyway basically I believe the competition between those three and all of them knowing they have a real chance of being a starter would bring out the best in them. Just handing the starting job to 1 individual (Foles) who doesn’t have much experience isn’t something I believe in, or something that automatically makes him successful. The reality is he’s not Brady, Manning or some top 5 pick. Personally the QB picked in the early 3rd rd, Russell Wilson, I think most people would agree even did better than Foles who was picked late in the 3rd rd. Some people might even think the Redskins 4th rd pick looked(2nd QB they took in ’12 draft) looked more promising.

          • Neil

            Certainly, you want to have as much talent at QB as possible, but it’s important to never acquire a qb for the sake of acquiring a qb. Foles has shown functional qb ability on a dysfunctional team as a rookie. That’s quite an accomplishment. You can bet that if Chip thinks he can get Foles to score 30 points a game passing from the pocket he’s going to do it, and be very, very happy doing it.

          • eagleizeit

            It’s always easier(also more likely) not to make a trade and stay with what you have even if the pocket passer is slower than Tom Brady. But if you have a coach who had extreme success with non pure pocket passers, why try to hinder his success, or cripple him a little, when there’s no need to. He’ll have lots of challenges being a new head coach so what’s the point in trying to make things harder for him and making the team score less( win less) when there’s several other prospects who can make things easier and make the offense more productive?

  • http://www.facebook.com/daniel.n.richwine Daniel Norman Richwine

    Gino Smith seems like a read spread kind of QB. think Chip will target him in the draft?

    • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

      There is a wide variety of offenses when it comes to the spread offense. Geno Smith comes out of Dana Holgorsen’s Air Raid, which is pretty much on the opposite end of the spread spectrum from Kelly’s zone read-based offense. Now, that doesn’t mean that Smith’s skills can’t be translated to many other offensive systems, but Geno Smith is certainly not a special runner, if that’s what you’re looking for.

      I would not exclude the possibility of Geno Smith being able to run some limited zone read principles, but it would be more of a wrinkle with him rather than a focal point. But it is a step up from Nick Foles in that regard, who I don’t think could even incorporate the zone read as a wrinkle.

  • GermanEagle

    If the eagles hire Jim Hermann as their new DC watch out for them to draft Björn Werner just to add another German (name) to the team!

  • ACViking

    Re: Staff Hirings

    T-Law:

    Every team with an HC opening this off-season has now filled it.

    Every team with an HC opening this off-season — except the Eagles — has filled the coordinator position on the side of the ball opposite the new HC’s background.

    For example, the Chargers kept Pagano as DC for McCoy; the Cardinals just about announced the hiring of D-coordinator Bowles’ along with new HC Arians’; and the Jaguars have now announced their O-coordinator.

    Each of those three teams hired its new head coach either the day before, the same day, or the day after the Eagles hired CKelly.

    What do you make of the, let’s say, the deliberateness (relative to how the NFL seems to work in this regard) with which the Eagles appear to be approaching the addition of a D-coordinator?

    • D-von

      That would be hard to answer without intimate knowledge about Kelly’s coaching search. However, a couple of theories come to mind.
      1.) Kelly’s lack of NFL experience, which would help with networking around the league in finding coaches. These is the least likely scenario for me.
      2.) Kelly is a details guy. He wants to get an idea of what of personnel the team and what defensive guys he can trust with coaching the defense. This is my favorite scenario.

      • ACViking

        As T-Law’s noted recently, all the assistant coaches remained after Reid’s firing to prepare player evaluations.

        Unless Kelly wants to conduct his own tape-based evaluation of all his new players — which will take days — I’d surmise he’s already reviewed the player-eval memos.

        Plus . . . what’s Roseman there for if not to help CK on the personnel evaluations and to find assistant coaches? He spoke to, what, 13 different guys for the HC job . . . which would have included names of potential asst coaches.

        • D-von

          I think Kelly wants to do his own evaluations, which like you said would take time. I think Roseman would help him with coaching names if Kelly asked, but like I said we have no intimate knowledge of the situation. Plus most of the guys the Eagles talked to in the coaching process have gotten jobs elsewhere, are still in the POs, or decided to stay out of coaching this year. Kelly was hired Wednesday morning. Its only been 4 days. Most of the other new HCs either hired people they previously worked with, had the GMs hire the coaches, or the coordinators were already in place. I want this search to be as thorough as the HC search was… even if it means we may not have a DC in place by the Senior Bowl.

  • eagleizeit

    I like Gino Smith a lot, but if Buffalo’s GM is going out and saying he’d like to move up from 8 and get their Franchise QB in the draft, as the players rank right now, I’d have no problem moving from 4 to 8 if Gino’s there and grabbing Ohio State NT, DT, DE Jonathan Hankins (who can be dominant in the 3-4 as well as the 4-3). Especially if we’re moving to a 3-4 defense. Knowing they’d probably give us their 2nd & 4th this year and a 1st or 2nd next year doesn’t hurt too much. We could draft C,G,T Barrett Jones from Alabama with 1 of the 2 2nd rd picks and either a QB,S or whatever else with the other 1(picks 35 & 41). In FA’s we could pick up the best G who also played LT well in a couple games this year (Andy Levitre). With those 2 OL we should be fine if Peters or Kelce take a while to get over their injuries.

  • ian_no_2

    What about Raheem Morris for DC? He’s a 4-3 guy.

    QB: I like the idea of bringing four or five guys into camp that can do read option and getting them all ready in case one gets hurt. Dennis Dixon, Darron Thomas, Troy Smith. Trade Foles, Vick (if possible, though the dates are a problem). Getting Tyrod Taylor would be good. There’s every indication that John Harbaugh is looking at read option himself, since he drafted Taylor and has Dixon on the PS, especially as his brother has been so successful with Kaepernick. Flacco is a free agent, he was the franchise guy who was on the board when Harbaugh was a rookie coach.

    • ian_no_2

      The “Flacco is going somewhere” theory wasn’t really thought through, which is good news if the Eagles want Taylor.

  • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

    Cross-posting my thoughts on the 2013 QBs from 24/7:

    Y/N:

    Can Chip Kelly do more to threaten the defense with a QB who brings the zone read to the table than with one who does not? I think that’s an obvious “Yes” answer, meaning the zone read is still a potentially relevant part of the equation when it comes to CK’s mesh of scheme and personnel for 2013.

    There are dozens of coaches if CFB who run the zone read, but none who did it as well as Chip Kelly coached teams. I don’t think that’s an element that should be thrown out the window so easily. It’s still an open question for his offense starting next year.

    My hunch is that there will be a QB battle in training camp between Nick Foles and another QB who can move well enough to pull off the zone read. I don’t know if this is a QB in the draft or one already in the pros, but I am starting to scan the college ranks for candidates in this year’s draft class that could be added to the Eagles depth chart.

    I would not be surprised to see the name Alex Carder get tied to the Eagles as we approach the draft. Carder is a 6’2″, 23-year-old senior quarterback out of Western Michigan with 4.6 speed and great accuracy, but available footage is scarce. WMU ran some limited zone read with Carder. Unfortunately, the only time WMU games reach a national audience is when they play big-time schools that grossly outmatch their athletic talent.

    These links shows all his plays against University of Michigan in 2011. This footage displays his arm much more than his legs. Try not to be influenced by the fact that WMU is getting whacked on the scoreboard.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

    Carder’s throwing motion seems a little bit unorthodox, but I am very impressed with his accuracy in that game action.

    Carder’s career rushing stats are not very impressive (285 attempts for 600 yards), but he has had good games on the ground (13 carries for 95 yards against Bowling Green and 13/66 against Ball State with 3 TDs). Obviously the Broncos did not run the zone read at nearly the same level that Oregon did, but Carder may have the tools to eat up yardage with his legs if Chip’s scheme causes part of the field to be left undefended.

    I think he might fit Kelly’s stated preference of a QB who can run, and I would be intrigued if the Eagles took a shot at him in a later round.

    Next I am going to look at EJ Manuel.

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