A New Shariff In Town?
Posted: February 18th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 51 Comments »There has been a lot of talk about the same group of prospects for the Eagles. Let’s talk about someone new…DL Shariff Floyd from Florida. At first I didn’t think too much about him as an Eagles prospect. He is 6-3, 305 and a very disruptive DT. He’s ideal for the 3-tech DT spot. The Eagles already have Fletcher Cox and it seems like he might be headed for that role.
I was watching a couple of Floyd’s games when something hit me. Florida actually used him at RDE on a regular basis, in both 3-4 and 4-3 looks. Floyd actually looked just as comfortable and natural at DE as he did at DT. That made me think that the Eagles could look at him as their 5-tech DE (generally the LDE).
Watch this game vs Texas A&M. Notice that he lines up at NT, 3-tech, 5-tech, and 4-3 DE. One of the most impressive parts of the video is watching him chase Johnny Manziel. There are a few plays where Floyd mirrors him and Manziel isn’t able to take off running as he normally would. This made me flashback to the 2000 playoffs when the Giants used DT Cornelius Griffin to spy Donovan McNabb. It was so discouraging to see a DT handling our stud athletic QB, but that’s just what Griffin did that day.
With Floyd at 5-tech, Cox at 3-tech, and Cole/Graham at Predator, that would be a good trio of athletic pass rushers. The Cards defense has both Darnell Dockett and Calais Campbell. You can’t double both of them. And if one is out of the game for a couple of plays, the defense still has a good interior rusher. Floyd would also be good insurance in case anything happened to Cox.
What about Cedric Thornton? He could be a good fit for the 5-tech spot as well, but Thornton also has value as the top backup for that spot and the 3-tech. We don’t know if Cullen Jenkins will be cut or kept. Ronnie Cameron has some potential as a 3-tech, but is unproven beyond the preseason. If you had 3 pieces in Cox, Floyd, and Thornton, you’d like the situation quite a bit. That would give you flexibility and depth.
Here are some overall highlights of Floyd, although 1/3 of them are from the Texas A&M game. Some are worth a second look anyway.
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A few of you have asked about Johnny Manziel, aka Johnny Football, as an Eagles target in 2014. Some have suggested the Eagles should do whatever it takes to get him since Manziel is the perfect fit for Chip Kelly’s offense.
Whoa. Slow down.
Manziel had an amazing season. He won the Heisman Trophy and beat Alabama. He was special. That makes him a great college football player, but it does not make him a great NFL prospect. Manziel is playing in the system that allowed Case Keenum to set NCAA records. Manziel is much more gifted than Keenum, but that still doesn’t mean he’s going to be a coveted NFL prospect.
We need to see how Manziel does in 2013. Last year he had the best pair of OTs in all of college football. Think about how many draft prospects get criticized for how they handle pressure in the pocket. Manziel had the cleanest pocket in the country. He had good RBs. He had good WRs. Manziel only had to face 3 good defenses…Florida, LSU, and Bama. He went 1-2 in those games and threw 2 TDs and 3 INTs. He lit up the mediocre and bad defenses that he had to face. The 3 good teams were all in the Top 10. No other opponent was in the Top 50.
Let’s see how Manziel plays in 2013 before we anoint him a great prospect that the Eagles must get. Another note…he ran the ball 201 times this year. Chip Kelly prefers his QBs to be about half of that.
As a side note, I still prefer for QBs to stay in school 3 years. That would put Manziel in the 2015 draft. He is eligible next year, but very few RS-Soph QBs actually come out. QB is one position where you need as much experience as possible.
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Question about the QB’s as RS SO. What about Mariota? He’ll be a RS SO next year but from the games I saw (watched the entire offense for 5 games or so), he really showed some talent as a passer. Think his situation is different with Chip being his coach?
I think he’s got serious NFL potential, but I’d still prefer him to stay 3 years.
As a Duck alum and lifetime Eagles fan, I would love to see Mariota in midnight green. Chip obviously thinks highly of both Mariota and Manziel as Manziel was actually an Oregon commit before switching his commitment to Texas A&M just before signing day. The inside joke at Oregon is that if Manziel accepted his scholarship at Oregon, they’d be calling him “Johnny Clipboard”. Mariota is a special player… poised way beyond his years. I love watching Manziel play and I really love his competitive spirit, but I think Mariota is the better NFL prospect. Mariota always plays within the system… Manziel tries to create his own to often in my opinion. If I’m the Eagles, I’m targeting Mariota or Bridgewater next year if either/both are available.
Johnny Clipboard, love it.
Whenever I see “Manziel” I think of that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer invented the “Manzier”
You just planted a seed in my brain that won’t go away. Ever. Jerk.
Actually those shoulder pads of his kind of look like they could be a Manzier
Now I’m going to focus on that when watching him.
Pretty sure it was the bro
Aw, man. You beat me to that. LOL
Where would floyd be a target?
Pick #4
I know it’s still early and things can easily change, especially with the combine coming up, but everywhere I have looked has him rated between 10 and 20. Would 4 be a bit of a reach for Floyd?
Mayock has Floyd as his top rated DT and one of the top 5 players overall in the draft.
Interesting. Draftace, Draftcountdown, and NFL Draft Scout all have him in the mid to late teens, and Star Lotulelei is either in the top 5 or top 10 rather than Floyd. In fact, Sheldon Richardson is rated higher in two of those sites.
Obviously though, it is still early in the process and those rankings will change a lot between now and the end of April. I just would be concerned if we go into the draft targeting Sharrif Floyd with the #4 pick and he is not the consensus best DT. That early in the draft, I think you need to come away with a guy that is clearly the best player available.
First, most of those sites are garbage, NFL draft scout/CBS, NFL.com, and a few others are the only ones where they have people with some scouting experience looking at film, the rest tend to just go off “reputation.”
Second, because of the number of players to be reviewed, amateurs tend to be behind the pros, so the players who rise rapidly in March are those who had big senior seasons after not playing (weren’t on the radar) and juniors (not scouted as thoroughly until they declare), and those who stand out at all star games, especially small college types that no one heard of up to then. Pro teams already know about these guys, the media hype begins when the amateurs “discover” them.
Consensus means nothing, go back the last few years and see how the consensus top 50 fared. For juniors, the combine matters because you’ll get true measurements. Otherwise the combine only matters for a handful of players, and mostly to confirm what’s on film, but in some cases, to project what their bodies will be with a couple years of NFL training.
Jordan unfortunately won’t be doing the bench b/c of his shoulder, and probably won’t have bulked up at all – which means his workout will be deceiving – he needs to get his weight over 250 lbs to play SLB in a hybrid system (where he’d be beating TE blocks on the pass rush, NFL TEs tend to go 250-260 lbs and are athletic, so a 6’6 226 lb SLB ain’t going to have much success (that is the weight he reportedly was at by the end of the year). A shorter guy might be able to play at 245 lbs or so, but Jordan can’t get low and use leverage like Cole or Graham, he has to use his long arms to handle pass blockers. And that requires upper body strength.
How do you define those sites as garbage? What is your criteria? If you are going to do it in any measured way, the way TheHuddleReport rates these websites seems like a fair and logical way by determining how many correct players they rate in their top 100 that go in the top 100 picks. Draftace and Draftcountdown have the highest average percentage of any website over the last 5 years, so I would hardly call them “garbage”.
Having said that, I agree that just because a few websites don’t agree that one player is the best player available, especially this early on, doesn’t mean that they are right, but it certainly doesn’t mean that they are wrong as well. When multiple people are arguing that a guy is not a top 10 talent, at the very least it should throw up a red flag on whether or not he is worth the 4th overall pick and it is important to understand WHY he is viewed less favorably by others.
What do you think about Ezekiel Ansah and Dion Jordan?
I’ll be covering them in separate posts. Can’t cover every player at once. We still have 2 months til the draft.
Could you also cover Damontre Moore and compare him to Jordan as well at some point? He looks like the real deal and worthy of the 4th pick if he’s not taken sooner. Jordan seems more of a trade down option to my untrained eye.
You dont compare Moore and Jordan imo. Its a crime against both as both project to different things at the pro level.
Moore is more like a Clay Matthews or Demarcus Ware that you send on as pass rusher 95% of the time, where Jordan is so athletic gifted that you can feel comfortable with him covering TE and even from time to time slot WR.
I like Jordan the most, but I wouldn’t pick him in the top 10. He is far from a polished player, and I prefer that if we do pick someone high, he is able to be an instant upgrade to the roster.
I think I’d rather pick a DT/DE or OT with our first pick, and then hope to get Mingo in the top of the second round.
I really like Jordan but I am a little cornered about his ability to bend around the edge. Too often to me he seems to just get ridden out wide in games, so I’d really have to see how he looks at the combine and in the 3 cone drill.
With Mingo, I just can’t see any way he falls out of the top 20. He should light up, if not perform very well at the combine and based on his NFL Network interviews, he played this past season at 230 and is now up to 245 so his size shouldn’t really be a concern. Between Jordan and Mingo, I think I would have to go with the latter because he’s an elite athlete and as Tommy noted, his sack numbers were partially down due to him being asked to mush-rush frequently.
Tommy,
Good to read your impression on Floyd. He is one of my targets as well along with Joeckel, Fisher and Star if we stay put at #4. Although I hope we pick up Desmond Bryant in FA making Floyd expendable. Do you have any early FA favorites?
Interesting to see that you are careful judging Manziel. I haven’t read anything negative about him before, but I like the perspective. I hadn’t thought of the schedule-angle.
My dream scenario is to get Bridgewater. Are you lookwarm of him as well?
Teddy Bridgewater is much more of a standard pro prospect.
I haven’t studied Manziel. I don’t deal with Freshmen. Just making some casual observations.
FA is something I’m working on.
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to warm up to Manziel after hearing who his favorite pro teams are in an interview. He said he’s a fan of the Cowboys, Heat, SF Giants and Derek Jeter.
He’s dead to me.
On a side note: I seem to remember that Fletcher Cox kind of jumped into the discussion of being an elite prospect only a couple of weeks before the draft last year. Why was that? Did you just not watch him before, or did you hear rumors, that he was high on a lot of boards?
I ask because it could be fun to speculate which one of the not-so-well-known prospects in this years draft, who might suddenly rise.
Tommy was a huge fan of Fletcher Cox long before the draft.
Do you remember the first time he was the subject of a post? I think it was end of march, but I could be wrong.
http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-eagles-2/get-to-know-fletcher-cox/
Thanks a lot. Interesting that he made Cox the subject of a post almost the same date as Shariff Floyd 🙂
Tommy actually had him as our pick along with boykin a good while before any of the other draft guys started discussing the possibility. I remember because that was the first I’d really heard of Cox.
great QB’s aside, what do you think about DE Clowney? Is he being over-hyped or will he be the best DE to hit the NFL since Reggie White and Bruce Smith? That’s who I’m hoping we can snag next year. I have faith… er, high hopes that Chip can make Foles into the QB that he needs and utilize McCoy and our other RBs to pound the rock and control the clock.
I don’t think its possible to over hype Clowney
Clowney is an elite prospect we’d all kill to have. Problem is that no one wants to go 1-15 or 2-14 to secure his services.
2-14 to guarantee Bridgewater or Clowney? I’m in. Unless we find a QB of the future, we’re going to struggle.
Not saying he won’t be some one picked, but it looked a lot like him getting negated by NFL quality OL in the A&M game. I didn’t really see him firing low off the ball consistently and even plays where he was in position to make a tackle on a RB/etc they still gained positive yardage after contact. But based on everything laid out, an intriguing prospect nonetheless.
geez his highlight vid is 1.40 secs and about 20-30 secs is just intro and credits ?
The guy who did that just used games that were available on YouTube already. Floyd had a pair of sacks in the bowl game. That’s not on YT, but clearly would be highlight material.
On the topic of FA’s, wouldn’t Anthony Spencer be a top candidate at SAM for us? Despite his struggles getting pressure he has been a dominant run-defender. Dallas can’t afford to put the tag on him again either.
The fact that he’s not a great pass rusher should also help keep his price tag down. Or do you think his market value is still high because he managed 11 sacks despite few total pressures this year? He arguably had his best year as a pro last year but I just think in a typical 3-4 you want more out of your OLB. In this Under system though where the pressure should be generated primarily from the Predator and DE his skillset seems a perfect fit for SAM though.
Johnny Manziel is fun to watch, but honestly, if there is one QB that reminds me of Vick–and not in a good way–it’s him. He played very frenetically in the pocket, and was a week-to-week player; meaning, you really didn’t have a great deal of confidence how he’d come out any give week. Same kind of mobility–dazzling athleticism, but most of it improv’d, sandlot plays. He’s a prospect that’s definitely worth checking in on, in terms of development–I think shorter guys might get more of a shot, as time goes on–but as of right now, I’d say he’s got a little way to go before taking over a franchise.
Agree with lots of this.
As time goes on here, I’m starting to think we’re going to see Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd get into the conversation for those top 5 overall picks. Floyd was an impact player–I’d have no beef taking him at #4. Richardson has more than a little Fletcher Cox to his game, and I personally like his ability to get to the QB more than Shariff. I’d be OK with them picking either, honestly.
Of course, this still leaves the NT to acquire. There are some interesting options in free agency. Sammie Lee Hill comes to mind as a guy that has the anchor for the nose, but may not have been the best fit in Detroit’s wide 9. Steve McClendon looks like the heir apparent to the NT position in Pittsburgh, or I’d say the Eagles should go after him. Terrance Knighton might shine at the nose in a 3-4, but would probably be the priciest option; if Jacksonville lets him get away. Aubrayo Franklin could probably be a stopgap solution that would be able to do some things well enough.
The trench players in this draft are clearly the cream. I wish we had more picks in the first 3 rounds, because talent at other positions is going to be pushed down by the line players at the top.
Seconded on the Floyd/Richardson point. The only swap I would make is that I think Fletch would probably move to the 5 and Richardson the 3. I’m really interested to see Richardson’s agility drills, I don’t think it will be close.
Floyd seems like a guy that would interest them if they wanted to go to a true 3-4. He’s fine as a prospect but I think I’d be disappointed if they took him at #4 overall. So many other areas on this team need help that picking a guy who plays a position where we already have options feels like a luxury. Unless he’s a significantly better prospect than Milliner, Joeckel, Fisher, or Lotuelei he wouldn’t seem to me like the best choice that high.
Tommy, how hard is it to write these articles when no one is certain
what offense or defense we’ll be running this year? Do you focus on
players that would be good fits in any system? Seems to me that would be
extremely difficult.
It is difficult. I make lots of educated guesses. I’m okay with being wrong, as long as it isn’t due to me just flat out being dumb.
Scheme flexibility. Thats what the Roseman preaches.
According to Rang’s site, which is pretty good with measurements, Shariff is just under 6’21/2″. The rumour is that Kelly likes long and lean. Isn’t that too short for a 5 tech?
Re: Scouting Tips
T-Law —
When we watch Shariff Floyd’s video . . . what exactly are the, say, 4-5 things that we should be looking for.
More to the point, what do you look for in D-linemen?
I ask because with D-lineman especially, you only notice them if they get a TFL, a Sack, or an O-lineman just blows them off the ball.
He’s also one of the youngest players in this class, only 20 years old.