Cut Day

Posted: February 25th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 102 Comments »

The Eagles cut DT Mike Patterson and DT Cullen Jenkins this afternoon.  I hate this part of the NFL, but it is part of the cycle of the game.  And the NFL most certainly is professional football…this is a business.  If you can find someone younger and cheaper, do it.

I was ecstatic when the Eagles drafted Patt back in 2005.  I can actually vividly remember a phone call with a buddy in March 2005 as we discussed Patt and just how perfect he’d be for the Eagles.  Seems like that was yesterday.  Time flies.

The move does make sense.  Mike isn’t old, but he’s taken a pounding over the years.  His best football is behind him. I do think he can still play, but might be best suited to being a backup in a 4-3.  The Eagles will be looking for a NT.  Patt’s not an ideal fit and is older and expensive.  You can see that things don’t stack up well there for him.

Jenkins has the size and skill set to play in any scheme.  I think cost and age were big factors with him as well.  He’s a declining player so why stick with him if you can find someone to replace him?  The media loved Jenkins, but I’m not sure he was as great a locker room presence as many would believe.  I’m not saying he was a bad guy, but some of the leadership stuff may have been overblown.

What do the moves mean for the Eagles?

Some think this is a sign that the team is targeting Shariff Floyd or Star Lotulelei at #4.  These cuts were getting made no matter what.  It wasn’t to open spots for draft picks.  The Eagles could take either Floyd or Star.  Those guys could play DT or DE in the scheme.

The Eagles now have very little money invested in the DL (since Cole, Graham are now LB types).  Fletcher Cox is reasonable. Cedric Thornton is cheap.  Antonio Dixon is cheap.  Ronnie Cameron is real cheap.  The Eagles didn’t need cap room to sign any FAs, but the cuts may have opened some budgetary resources to go for a DL.

NT is the biggest question mark for now.  Dixon has the size to handle it, but I’m not counting on him.  At the least, the Eagles should bring in a veteran to challenge him for the job.  It is also possible they draft Star (or some other guy) for that role or maybe add a quality NT in free agency.

* * * * *

What about Nnamdi?  No idea.  The Eagles tried to get him to restructure the other day.  That caught me off guard.  Because of his deal, he’s going to get money from them this season no matter what. Maybe they were hoping to get him cheap enough that he could stay around and not make the money a total waste.  Personally, I’d cut him.  We’ll see what happens.

* * * * *

Dion Jordan was the star of the Combine today.  Taking him at #4 would make a lot of sense.  He would be the SAM right away.  Dion has the pass rush skills needed for that.  He’s got even better cover skills than what you are looking for.  He has an excellent frame at 6-6, but would need to add 10 to 15 pounds to get up in the 260 range.

The question raised by a few people is whether Jordan might get snagged by the Jaguars at #2.  Gus Bradley needs a Leo (Chris Clemons pass rusher role) and Jordan could be of interest.  I don’t think they would make that move, but that is strictly a hunch by me.  They’ve got a new coach and new GM.

There is one problem with drafting Jordan.  Actually, make that 3…Trent Cole, Brandon Graham, and Vinny Curry.  How do you get them all on the field with Jordan as the SAM?  Cole would likely be the starting Predator (RDE/ROLB).  The Nickel would be a lot of 4-man fronts.  You could use Cole and Graham in that look.  Curry could back both of them up.  This isn’t an ideal use of resources, but does make some sense.

In 2014 you would cut Cole and let Curry and Graham fight for the Predator role.

Some people wonder about Graham getting pushed aside so easily.  Is that dumb?  The guy played well in 2012.

Here’s the thing…Chip Kelly has specific types of players that he wants.  He prefers longer, taller, athletic guys on defense (and the whole team really).  Graham is 6-1.  He was a good athlete prior to microfracture surgery, but seems more like a straight line guy now.  On paper, Graham is not a Kelly type of player.

Kelly will give him a chance to show what he can do in 2013.  If Graham wows him, Kelly will find a way to use him.  If Graham isn’t a standout, you could trade him or just let him play out his contract.  Kelly needs to build the team around players he truly wants and believes in.  Bill Parcells traded Hugh Douglas to the Eagles in 1998 because Hugh didn’t fit the 3-4.  Tuna gave up a Pro Bowl pass rusher, but he knew the guy didn’t fit his system.  In Dallas Parcells stuck with the 4-3 and undersized, speedy players for a couple of years, but he didn’t believe in that so he changed in 2005 and went to the 3-4 and bigger guys.  A coach must know what type players he wants and go get them.

I guess it is always possible the Eagles could try to trade Graham this year, but I don’t think that’s likely.  I think Howie Roseman would really like to see him pan out for the Eagles and I do think Chip will give him a chance to show what he can do in the new system.

* * * * *

Hot rumor is that KC and SF have a deal in place for QB Alex Smith to go to the Chiefs. I’m not sure I buy this.  Reid wants a young QB.  He likes Nick Foles. Not sure which draft prospects have his attention.  I could see Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson and EJ Manuel all getting his attention.  One of those guys will be there in the 2nd round.

Why trade for Smith, pay him several million, and draft a kid?  Smith will be miserable, knowing he’s going to eventually lose his job.  You’ve wasted a resource in dealing for him.

There will be some free agent that Andy likes and signs to help mentor his rookie QB.  That model makes a lot more sense.

If you like the conspiracy angle…maybe Reid started the Smith trade rumors to see if the Eagles would change their stance on trading Foles and the cost of trading for Foles.  This is the season of information and mis-information.

_


  • PeterAkkies

    Is Trent Cole a better pass rusher than Brandon Graham? It seems to me that the last thing Graham needs right now is to get limited snaps.

    • http://www.insidetheiggles.com/ CalSFro

      Agreed. I think Tommy is operating under the assumption that Cole’s contract makes it hard to trade him and costs us a bunch of dead money if we cut him, which might explain why he has him as a starter this year then cut next year.

      But still, if those two are battling for a starting spot next season…I don’t see any way that Cole beats our Graham. If Graham is just a straight line player at this point, then I’d hate to think what Cole is.

      • ICDogg

        a nickel pass rush specialist, our latter-day Claude Humphrey

  • SleepingDuck

    “I’ll give day-one starting left tackle Joeckel to the Chiefs at one,
    Jones and his freaky 24.5 tackles for loss in 2012 to Jacksonville at
    two (provided his spinal stenosis is not a huge issue), Floyd to the
    tackle-light and rebuilding Raiders at three, Jordan to the Eagles for a
    reunion with college coach Chip Kelly at four, and the most obvious
    pick in any draft in recent years, Milliner, to the cornerback-starved
    Lions at five.” -Peter King on the top 5 picks this April.

    Normally, I wouldn’t think much about a person mocking Jordan to the Eagles, but King is one of the few people who almost consistently nails the Eagles picks.

    • TommyLawlor

      Interesting and worth noting.

  • Iskar36

    “but the cuts may have opened some budgetary resources to go for a DL.”

    This is the part I don’t fully get with the Cullen Jenkins release. Regardless of how you feel about Cedric Thornton, I don’t think you can hand him the job without legitimate competition. Cullen Jenkins seems like a good candidate for that kind of competition. He is absolutely expensive and clearly not part of the future plans, but we are by no means cap-space limited right now, especially with the idea that we are not going to be big spenders in FA. Seems to me we now have to go out and spend additional resources, whether that is a draft pick or a FA signing in order to fill that need.

    I can’t say I am really upset with the move, but I just don’t know that cutting him for cap purposes has a ton of value when we already have a ton of cap space.

    • Arby1

      Doesn’t Thornton project as Cox’s backup?

      • Iskar36

        The way we currently stand, Cox and presumably Thornton are the two starting DEs with Ronnie Cameron as the sole backup. Obviously we need to add to the mix some how, whether that is a guy who can serve as a back up or a guy who can challenge for the starting role (or outright be given the starting role) remains to be seen. Personally, I hope they find someone who can takeover the starting role and have Thornton be a backup as you suggested.

      • TommyLawlor

        Thornton could be a starter this year or the top DL backup.

    • D3Keith

      Part of me agrees with you, but part of me asks $5.5m for a rotational player/stopgap starter that’ll be here one more year, two max? As much as I enjoyed Jenkins’s presence through the muck that was the past two seasons, I’m sure the Eagles can do better than that by hitting reset on the position.

      We’re going to see some players we like go, but there’s really only one opportunity to start from scratch, and very few defensive players are untouchable after the past season or two. The numbers I posted above show they only have significant money invested in Ryans, Cox, Cole and Graham, once NA is dealt with.

      • Iskar36

        Don’t get me wrong. I definitely understand the argument for cutting Jenkins. I just think there are two sides to the argument and wanted to present the second side. On one hand, you have a clearly over priced veteran, and when you are rebuilding, you have a good opportunity to cut that player and move forward. On the other hand though, you have a guy with successful experience in the 3-4 who could serve as a spot holder or at least an insurance policy if Cedric Thornton (or rookie/FA) doesn’t work out/takes time to adjust. With so many holes on defense and across the team, having him serve as only a spot holder for next year is not an insignificant job in my opinion either (certainly the argument can be made though that it is not worth the money Jenkins was going to be making). And while he is expensive, I have a very hard time believing we will be even coming close to needing that cap space this year considering the amount we currently have and the assumed approach we will have towards FA this year.

        Like I said earlier, I am certainly not upset that he was cut, but to me it is not as simple as “oh we need the cap space and he was over priced.”

        • TommyLawlor

          Thornton won’t be given the job. The competition will come from someone cheaper…and hungrier. Jenkins was up and down last year. I think Howie, Kelly, and the staff want a different veteran in that spot.

        • D3Keith

          Iskar, those are all good points. Certainly the “overpriced spotholder” logic that applies to keeping Vick and possibly Nnamdi did not apply to keeping Jenkins.

          I think you’re right, it’s probably not that simple. Maybe Davis et. al. watched the tape of last year and didn’t project into the new system well in the coaches’ minds for whatever reason. Maybe they really like what they see in FA — let’s not be so quick to assume that they won’t be active, even if they aren’t getting high-priced stars. mid-level DL and safeties and stuff.

          I wonder if they judge each “keep or cut” decision independent of the overall cap situation. Is it “is Cullen Jenkins worth $5.5 million this season based on how we expect him to play” or is it “even if Cullen Jenkins isn’t worth 5.5, we have some room to play with, and he could be useful, so why not hang on to him just in case?” Maybe the wiser approach is actually the former, keep a guy because he’s good value, period, not just because you can.

          The other factor is that they’re stuck with Cole and Graham and Ryans and on the hook for paying Nnamdi something, so on defense this was the only place to trim the fat. Everyone else is either young enough or doesn’t make enough to worry about cutting.

      • Iskar36

        I should also add, if the logic here is to cut ties with over priced veterans, I think it would be hard to swallow restructuring Nnamdi to what is almost guaranteed to be an overpriced contract rather than cutting him.

  • Iskar36

    “There is one problem with drafting Jordan. Actually, make that 3…Trent
    Cole, Brandon Graham, and Vinny Curry. How do you get them all on the
    field with Jordan as the SAM?”

    I don’t view this as a problem at all IF (and I capitalized the “if” for emphasis), Cole/Graham/Curry do not project long term at SAM. I fully agree with you that you need to get players you believe fit what you are looking for. It’s a shame if Cole/Graham/Curry all project to the same spot and we end up having to get rid of a good player or two because of that, but I’d rather the Eagles target a player that can do what Kelly is looking for at the position than fit square pegs into round holes just so that players are on the field.

    Having said that, I hope they can find value out of those guys, either by finding them a good position and playing time or by trading a guy like Graham now, while his value is high rather than waiting a year to find that he doesn’t fit the scheme.

  • DamonL86

    How many other cuts/trades of veteran players do you expect?

    • TommyLawlor

      Nnamdi is the only other one I anticipate at this time.

      There has been some Avant speculation, but he’s a good slot receiver, blocker, and leader. Kelly may value that stuff over the lack of speed.

  • http://twitter.com/JackfinBauer Jack Bauer

    Great article Tommy. Love Jordan, but in the case they don’t go in that direction I wanted to float another SAM possibility….Walter Stewart

    Mayock mentioned Stewart, of Cincinnati, as a top-10 pick this year (if he checked out medically) during his conference call last week, turning some heads. After an injury during the Fordham game this year it was revealed that Stewart suffered from a congenital defect, being born without the posterior arch of the C1 vertebra.

    Apparently there are conflicting reports from various doctors about whether this will keep him from playing, but he was not cleared to participate at the combine. I began following him in 2011 when he beat up on my Louisville Cards.

    His tape is fantastic:

    (#54) 6’4″, 246

    2011 Cin v. WVA:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrBc_PdopCI

    2012 Cin v. Pitt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=h9QcWcCPDrI

    2012 Cin v. VA Tech
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBVlaaO1fSM&feature=player_embedded

    He can play standing up or with his hand in the ground. He’s has great awareness and so smooth rushing the passer with a surprisingly strong bull rush. Stack and sheds with a pretty good ability to take on double teams. Stewart looks comfortable in pass coverage, and stout against the run. Finally as much as it pains me to say this he has a “non-stop motor”, always around the play.

    I know you have probably already studied him, but I thought your other readers might enjoy wasting another 20 mins of their day. If the Eagles training staff falls on the “let him play” side I would love this kid to be apart of our new-look 2013 Eagles squad.

    Further reading:

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap1000000138870/article/walter-stewart-takes-inspirational-path-to-nfl-scouting-combine

    • TommyLawlor

      Stewart is really talented. Good player in 2011. Got better in 2012. Medical question is huge. If healthy, 32 teams would be interested.

  • phillychuck

    Interesting article on the OLs at teh combine:

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Player-historical-scores-by-position-Offensive-Line.html

    very athletic class, especially the OTs.

  • D3Keith

    My first thought upon seeing these cuts, besides the fact that they aren’t entirely unexpected, is that Vick is going to earn Jenkins’ and Patterson’s money this season.

    • A_T_G

      Well, he will GET their money, at least.

      • Iskar36

        So true!

      • D3Keith

        Well played.

  • xeynon

    Cutting Patterson makes sense. He is, as you say, an older, high-mileage guy who probably can’t play anything but DT in a conventional 4-3 at this point in his career. Jenkins, though, I might have tried to keep on a restructured deal, if for no other reason than that he has experience as a 5-technique DE and could have been a useful part-time player in either a 4-3 under or conventional 3-4.

    I really wonder if the reason they haven’t cut Asomugha yet is that they plan to let DRC walk, aren’t enamored of any of the FA options, and don’t want to spend two high picks in order to have serviceable starting corners. Of course, it’s debatable whether Nnamdi is still serviceable at this point.

    • D3Keith

      That’s exactly why. Although I think because we’re all so disappointed in Nnamdi we’re selling him short (he’s serviceable, at worst) and it might be that we could get serviceable from Hughes or Marsh and not need to burn a pick.

      But when you look at them cutting two DLs today, there’s a need there — for an NT and depth at DE, a need at SAM, a need at S … might be wise to limit the need at corner.

      Although it’s possible they can remake this whole thing in one offseason. We’ll have to see how free agency goes.

      • Ark87

        I wonder if we are holding onto NA (for now) because we are looking to sign DRC and don’t want to give his agent the leverage of us having NO in-house options to fall back on. That goes for any free agent actually.

        • D3Keith

          Yeah. This has really only begun to play out. Hard to read into what’s happening with so little info available.

  • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

    Re: Selecting Dion Jordan at #4

    I am not crazy about this idea. Sheil’s study of Billy Davis’ defense found that the SAM position encompassed about 70% rushing and 30% coverage. Jordan excels at 30% of the job, but the pass-rushing aspect asks you to put faith in a ton of projection. While his build and movement make you salivate at his potential, Jordan’s current pass-rush skills lag far behind at present. He doesn’t show ability to beat blockers inside, set anyone up with moves or convert speed to power. He is a one trick pony who tries to beat his guy to the edge every time and gets all of his pressure moving in space.

    If Jordan develops his pass-rushing extensively, he is a special, versatile player. If he doesn’t, his ability to line up in the slot amounts to little more than a novelty for an NFL player. The problem with drafting him at #4 is that you are relying in him doing an awful lot of improving in areas where he has not yet even shown signs of aptitude. Risking so much on athletic upside would not be advised with the fourth selection.

    I believe you felt similarly about Jordan a couple weeks ago. I would be surprised if Jordan’s combine performance should change his evaluation much, since it was not difficult to anticipate him shining there.

    • D3FB

      I think you are selling Dion a little short in his pass rushing ability. He uses his hands well and can bend around the edge at full speed. These are two of the most important parts of being a deadly pass rusher. You have to remember that in College these guys only get 20 hours a week of practice, and much of that isn’t full speed live drill situations. Add in the fact that he had to focus alot on coverage, and I would be willing to bet the coaching staff decided the best way to use his time would be to allow him to use his natural abilities in the pass rush department, and focus on him working on coverage within the scheme. With a professional environment I feel very comfortable saying that he will be able to develop countermoves to round out his pass rushing arsenal. Plain and simple what it comes down to for me, is that Dion Jordan has the highest ceiling of any player in this draft.

      • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

        Is two years not enough time to ask him to develop a single counter move to his outside speed rush? It’s not as if he was an overwhelming pass-rusher relying on unrefined natural ability alone. He didn’t keep tackles (or even tight ends) guessing and you can see that they were usually able to redirect him way upfield and out of the play:

        youtu.be/XdpzGUxkek4

        • Shawsage

          If there’s one coach who knows whether or not Jordan can round out his pass rush skills you’d think it’d be Kelly after seeing up close and personal at Oregon.

      • Iskar36

        Good points, but I don’t think Phils Goodman is really arguing his ceiling. I think the point he was trying to make is that at #4 pick in the draft, you don’t want to have to rely so much on ceiling but you want the guy you are picking to already show he has a lot of those abilities. In other words, you want a guy that shows he already has elite skills and on top of that he has that elite potential.

        I think we have argued that this draft may lack that top end talent, so maybe you need to focus instead on getting the guys with the highest ceiling as you suggested though.

        • PK_NZ

          And cue yet another Graham vs. JPP discussion…

    • 47_Ronin

      Another concern I have with Jordan is whether he can stay healthy and put on the 10-20 lbs. He has a very lean frame, thin legs, I’m having a hard time picturing him at 260 something.

    • D-von

      Thats why I want Ansah

      • TommyLawlor

        Ansah is an even more raw pass rusher than Jordan.

        • D-von

          I disagree. To me Jordan is a speed rusher while Ansah looks more like a naturally rusher

          • ICDogg

            There’s a certain violence in Ziggy’s game that is appealing.

    • grover

      Fair concern. The better question is if it’s more likely Jordan could develop his pass rush than another SAM prospect who excels as a pass rusher but is undeveloped as a coverage player could improve in his weak area. That 70/30 split isn’t set in stone and should be driven by personnel.

      • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

        The more he has to play as a downfield coverage linebacker, the lower his ceiling goes. It’s extremely rare for a linebacker to go in the top 5 or 10 for reasons other than pass-rush ability.

    • austinfan

      Jordan did exactly what was expected at the Combine, he showed what everyone knew, he’s a fluid and agile athlete, but not an explosive (32″ VT for example at 248 lbs) or powerful one.

      He could play SLB in a 4-3 right now, but SLB in a 4-3 hybrid where he has to pass rush past a TE or RT (not blitz with a clean lane and only a RB in his way) and hold the edge against the run. He needs to bulk up to 265 lbs to be effective in that role (Kearse was 6-5 265 lbs when he came out). And that raises a serious question, how fast is he if he adds 20 lbs? A lot of guys slow down when they do that, would he become a 4.70 guy who’s not very explosive?

      So we’re talking a limited player for a year or two, and a gamble on upside in the long run, and on his shoulder. Given his build, I wonder if he can bulk up, and whether he can stay healthy on the LOS (Kearse started where Jordan hopes to end up and only lasted 3 years as an elite player).

      I think DT or OT are the safest picks at #4, Jordan is too big of a gamble. Floyd, Star, Fisher or Lane Johnson (who is as much of an athletic freak as Jordan and a lot safer).

  • KeithPetres

    So is this a sign that Chip Kelly is going to go with a defense of nothing but undersized DEs, LBs and safeties to match his … unconventional offense? JUST THINK OF ALL THAT SPEED! NO MATTER WHERE THE OFFENSE GOES THE DEFENSE WILL ALREADY BE THERE.

    (I’m starting to turn on Kelly and they haven’t even played yet. I suck)

    • Flyin

      (I agree)

    • TommyLawlor

      What? Who’s the undersized guy? Jordan is 6-6. He would be a combo SAM/rusher. He’ll bulk up to the 260 range. That’s plenty big.

    • http://www.facebook.com/watkinsont Tom Watkinson

      Typical dopey comment. Patterson is short and both dl are past their prime. One ounce of research or thought would’ve revealed chip historically prefers long/tall players. Why would u turn on Kelly over these trivial cuts. Sound like that dope Cataldi.

      • Ark87

        I’m holding out hope that he was being wildly sarcastic or maybe just trolling.

        • PK_NZ

          Forming sentences with all caps is a surefire way to sound more knowledgeable…

  • D3Keith

    With Cullen ($5.5m) and Patterson (a shade over $4m) gone, according to Eaglescap.com, here’s who’s left making $2 million or more this season:
    Nnamdi $15.3 (which he won’t see)
    Peters $10.75
    DeSean $9
    Vick $7.07
    DeMeco $6.7
    Cole $5.35
    Maclin $4.55
    Celek $4.53
    Herremans $4.3
    Mathis $4 flat
    Graham $2.95
    Cox $2.32
    Avant $2.71
    Watkins $2.17

    You could probably argue that some of those guys are still overpaid — Nate
    Allen makes almost 2 mil too — but the benefit of keeping them around exceeds the benefit of cutting them.

    In terms of cap hit, the only uncuttable guys are:
    DeSean $12m
    LeSean $9.8m
    Cox $8.3m
    Cole $6.4m
    Graham $5.12
    Herremans $4.8

    NA and Mathis have cap hits of 4, FWIW.

    • http://twitter.com/KeeepSwinging Anthony Hart

      Mathis is here on a good deal and is a stud guard, he’s not going to be a cap casualty.

      • D3Keith

        Yes, I’m well aware of that. Just threw it in there at the end as a “FWIW” because I’d already mentioned every other Eagle making at least 2m this year and the guys with large cap numbers. Consider it for informational purposes only.

        Mathis’s play makes him uncuttable.

        • DanJ3645

          Such a shame that he is the exception rather than the rule

  • Neil

    About the possibility of jags taking jordan, wasn’t everybody saying when bradley was the next head coach of the eagles that he would run a tampa 2 type system? Will he really need a leo?

    • TommyLawlor

      Apparently he’s going to do a lot of what they did in SEA.

  • 47_Ronin

    Re: The cuts

    After the Eagles traded for D. Ryans, Roseman stated during the off season they examined teams that made scheme changes to see if certain players didn’t fit the new scheme and possibly could be acquired. Patterson didn’t fit the direction of the Eagles defense, but I question whether Graham, Cole or Curry are square pegs as well. Looking at the Cardinals D under Davis, it seems he preferred someone that was 6’3″ and 250+lbs in the “predator” role. Could any of them be trade material?

    • TommyLawlor

      Cole has a bad cap figure. He’s stuck here this year.

      Graham could be trade material, but the return wouldn’t be all that good so I think he stays and they see what they can get out of him.

      • GermanEagle

        What return would it be? Nothing better than a 4th?

  • SuPaFrO

    Maybe the thing with Dion Jordan is how we would use him. I’m sure it will alter from week to week but maybe he can be a great help against the Elite TEs. Probably already better in coverage than Coleman.He can be our extra weapon. Move him around like Clay Mathews. Best way to confuse the opponents? Have the QB guessing if he’s going to blitz or go out..

    • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

      The one who plays like Clay Matthews is Jarvis Jones.

      youtu.be/Aqor83DnzMg

      • SuPaFrO

        Jones isnt anything special. He’s more of a better college player. personally i would love Ogletree. He is a petter prospect.

        • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

          He’s more of a better college player

          As opposed to what? Since the highest level either of them has ever played is college, that would seem to imply that Jones is the better player, period. Jordan may develop into a better player (or not), but if you are just taking that for granted, it doesn’t make for great persuasive argument.

          Between getting busted for DUI during his pre-draft process, stealing from other students and getting suspended for failed drug tests during the season, Ogletree’s ability to get with the program doesn’t look too promising.

          • SuPaFrO

            I’m not saying I want ogletree in the first or second. but hes much better propect than Teo. But whos was the Heisman runner up? you have to just do more than look up the stats or highlights.look at thier weaknesses. look at the plays when they’re not making plays. (sounds weird)

          • http://twitter.com/PhiIs_Goodman Phils Goodman

            I thought we were talking about Jarvis Jones. I was never crazy about Te’o and I think we’re fine for now at ILB with Kendricks and Ryans.

          • ClydeSide

            Won’t Kendricks play WIL? I think Kelly will give Casey another shot at ILB.

          • SuPaFrO

            oh sorry had to cut it short. what my point is just beause you did great things in college does not mean you will do the same in the NFL. i dont believe jones should go sooner than the top 10.

    • TommyLawlor

      Jordan’s value is that he’s equally as dangerous as a rusher, man cover guy, and zone defender. He can cover a TE. He can sit back and cover lots of ground, then attack a receiver in front of him.

      • SuPaFrO

        That’s pretty much my argument for him. you have to love his ability and potential. And VERSATILITY! I personally see him more of a Von Miller than Aldon Smith.

        • austinfan

          Von Miller came out of college as an absolute stud,
          6’3 246 [4.42 1.57 21 4.06 6.70 37 10’6]

          Jordan at 248 didn’t come close to his athleticism, nor his 26.5 sacks in his last 25 games. Von Miller was a sure thing, Jordan is a projection.

          The only safe picks for #4 in this draft are the OTs and the DTs, Jordan, Ansah are projects, Milliner a Bama CB, no safety, LB, QB, RB, WR, or TE worthy of that high of a pick.

          • SuPaFrO

            Hah i’m not saying they are the same player. of course Jordan is a project. but you can see his ability.

            you did also forget to mention he is 6’6. He isn’t as much as a freak but not not many are.

            My top choice would be OT, then the Sharrif, then Milliner.
            everyone else i would prefer to move back a bit.

  • A_T_G

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Patt interested in going to KC. After the way Andy handled his medical issue, I’d imagine there is some love there.

    Was Jenkins a Washburn guy? Remembering the blow up on the sideline with Reid, and not much memorable after Wash left, might he have had some ill will?

    • TommyLawlor

      Jenkins wasn’t a Washburn guy. He was just a bit erratic. Jenkins played 100 mph in some games, 90 mph in others. He never loafed, but would turn it on and turn it off at times. The Giants always brought out the best in him. Compare that to a guy like Cole who goes 100 mph the entire season.

      I also think he had a more “awkward” personality than the media realized. In front of them, he was great. Other times he was a bit different. He wasn’t disruptive, but let’s just say he wasn’t a great team leader.

  • Iskar36

    One question I have about Jordan is how do you think Kelly’s knowledge of Jordan will affect his decision on going after him in the draft? He obviously knows Dion Jordan very well, so he should have a great understanding of his strengths/weaknesses. But on the other hand, I’m sure that leads to a lot of biases because Kelly’s knowledge of Jordan will be a lot more detailed than his knowledge of other players in the draft, so his strengths and/or weaknesses will be magnified comparatively speaking. How do you make sure to eliminate the bias?

    • TommyLawlor

      The scouts have been doing research on Jordan for 7 to 8 months. They had reports on him before Chip Kelly was even a candidate. If the scouts don’t like him, no way we make the pick. Since I think most teams will be very high on him, the Kelly bias should have minimal impact.

      Players like Kyle Long and Kiko Alonso would be different. Each guy has some red flags. Kelly could make or break them with his opinion.

  • GermanEagle

    Let’s all hope Milliner puts on a show today so the chances of someone being desperate for the best CB in this draft will be even higher than they already are.

    Everyone expects the Lions to grab Milli at #5 so there might be a few teams interested in trading with the Eagles!

    • ceteris_paribus1776

      Didn’t Miliner have an injury issue just pop up that may cause him to slide a bit? Also, with Van den Bosch out and Avril not likely to be retained, Det may looking Dline. They have so many holes now It will be had to peg them.

    • Mac

      Hey, we have a shut down corner on the roster that we could give the Lions….

  • Mac

    Today’s daydream… Let’s trade Vick, Cole, and our 3rd rounder to Jacksonville for their 2014 1st round pick.

  • wilbertmontgomery

    Tommy – the Birds have a ton of cap space and seem intent on clearing even more. Knowing how they operate, I have to assume there is a plan in place.
    Reading PTF yesterday (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/26/report-jets-avoided-revis-reps-while-in-indy/) – and yes I know that is as much a rumor mill as news source – it appears that the Jets won’t rule out trading Revis.
    Any chance in your mind that Howie is prepping for a run at him? He’s shown that he’s willing to do trades to get the guy he wants (see Ryans) and certainly values having quality CBs (or at least perceived quality CBs).

    • Iskar36

      No way I want us to go after Revis. He would cost a ton in terms of a trade and will be 28 at the beginning of the season. That’s not too old, but considering it will take a few years to build this team into a legitimate competitor, by the time we do, he will be clearly past his prime. He is absolutely not worth the value it would require to trade for him in my opinion.

  • Mac

    One thing I’m thankful for today… No more retarded talk about Te’o coming to the Eagles with pick 4. Even the most idiotic Eagles fans have stopped banging that drum.

    • Baloophi

      Give them time, Mac… They’ll come back around. Or pick a new favorite, like Honey Badger at #4…

  • Kevin_aka_RC

    Hello Dee Milliner at #4.

  • nickross23

    Dee Milner just locked up a top five selection with a very smooth unofficial forty time of 4.31.. There’s no way we can pass on this guy at 4 since in my view he is the cleanest player on the board compared to others that might have some question marks that come with them bening picked at 4.

    • http://twitter.com/sjampendk Patrick

      Agree, my only concern was my fear that he lacked speed, which he obviously does not, even if it gets adjusted slightly. The only way i see us passing on Dee is if Joeckel is on the board, and even then im not sure. Tough and physical, now proving to be a good athlete, i like his cover skills and like all Bama players a guy who brings something in run support.

  • nickross23

    Even if we sign a guy in FA or some how keep Namdi which i don’t want or think will we should still take Milner who represent great value at 4. I just hope the lions or a team above the lions fall in love with him so they can be a trade partnerswith us so we can collect some extra picks. Depending on what type of holes we fill in FA i would go DB in round 1 and 2 with Milner and NC state David Amerson.

  • Ark87

    Looks like the Fletcher Cox and Cedric Thornton will be our starting DE’s. I can live with that, just need some depth/competition through the draft and FA.

  • ACViking

    Re: Drafting Dee Milliner

    No CB’s ever been taken higher than 5th in Rd 1 . . . ever. (Most recently Patrick Peterson by the Cards. Another was Deion Sanders by the Falcons in ’89.)

    Keeping CBs from going higher is the prevailing wisdom (I believe) that that while QBs, OLTs, pass rushing RDEs, and LCB are the premium positions . . . only QBs, OTs and DEs can be involved in just about every play.

    A LCB, on the other hand, can be eliminated from the game entirely by a game-plan of “10-on-10″.

    As for the Eagles taking Milliner, we’re still trying to figure out what the defensive scheme will be and how the corners fit.

    Plus, the Eagles rank Milliner in the same “stack” of players as someone at a position deemed to be more impactful in the schemes Kelly will run, then Milliner probably wouldn’t be the Birds’ choice.
    _______________

    T-Law:

    Will you explain how scouts factor in the fact that Milliner played the boundary corner for Alabama — always putting him on the short side of the field.

    • Kevin_aka_RC

      The biggest plus of Miiliner is that he’s scheme versatile. He’s a great tackler and instinctive enough for a zone scheme as well as fast enough to play in a man scheme.

      Chip Kelly asks “why”. Why can’t we take the best CB in the draft at #4 in a weak blue-chip that is also considered an excellent DB class?

    • Ark87

      If he’s good enough that we can use him to neutralize their #1 receiver with just 1 guy, I’d take it given the lackluster nature of the top of this draft. If he’s not THAT good (and very few are), they throw at him and he has INT opportunities.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=565087931 Jeppe Elmelund van Ee

    Draft scenario:

    Draft Miliner #4
    Draft Cyprien/Best safety available #35
    Draft Mathieu # 66

    That way we could possibly have transformed our secondary with these players. I would then put Miliner and Boykin at RCB and LCB and Mathieu in the slot CB. Those players along with Allen at FS and Cyprien at SS looks pretty good to me.

    What do you say?

    • GermanEagle

      I just came in my pants!

      • PK_NZ

        Tommy will argue that Boykin should stay in the slot… :) Keep NA and get depth to the Oline with the 3rd…

  • T_S_O_P

    Barkevious Mingo showed every bit the same athleticism as Jordan. Is he not on the the Eagles board?

    • http://www.insidetheiggles.com/ CalSFro

      I was thinking the same thing. But I doubt he’s nearly as good as Jordan in coverage since he played almost exclusively with his hand down.

  • Ark87

    Before we bounced 2 DT’s, there was speculation that we might be eyeing up the Sharrif. This latest move strengthens that possibility in my eyes. Of course I’d much rather get a NT or specialized 3-4 OLB, pieces where we have no proven personnel.

    What do you guys think about the possibility of the Sharrif coming back to town?

    • T_S_O_P

      Shariff as the 5 tech? or 3 tech? My only thought, which I commented a few days back, is that at over half an inch under 6’3″ he is little short for a 5 tech for a coach who is on record as liking them long. As a 3 tech we move our best player to accommodate him and he would be shorter than the player he is replacing.

      • Ark87

        3 I guess. Don’t know much about him, but at 300+ lbs, he and a Sturdy NT + Fletcher Cox would be a nice base from which to to build. Of course there’s getting the NT.

        • http://twitter.com/sjampendk Patrick

          The problem is that I, like TSOP, think that his best fit is a 3-tech, where Cox is the perfect prospect. I even think that Tommy said he liked Cox better going against OGs than OTs on an episode of the podcast. When picking 4th you have to maximize value, and i dont think thats Floyd, although i really like him as a player.

          • Ark87

            I’ll be the first to admit I know almost nothing about the 3-4 set up. So the front doesn’t play 3-0-3? Doesn’t the “predator” play the 5? The whole thing is voo doo to me :-D

          • T_S_O_P

            Me too, to an extent. In Seattle, which plays a 4-3 under, the Leo (preditor?) is a 7.They have a 3 a nose and a 5 and then the SAM sets the edge. I think it goes Preditor – 5 – 1 – 3 SAM. I could of course have that all arse about face.

            If our SAM is expected to set the edge, I’d prefer Ziggy in that role over both Jordan or Mingo.

          • http://twitter.com/sjampendk Patrick

            From what I read thats right, expect the side of the Pred. The NT is shaded to one of the centers shoulders(1 tech). If he is shaded to the left side(our POV), the LDE plays a 5 tech(on the OT) and the RDE plays a 3 tech(on the OG). The Predator plays outside the OT on the side of our 3 tech DT and our SAM of course lines up on the TE, which then should be the side of our 5 tech.
            I think it would go Pred – 3 – 1 – 5 – SAM, but the beauty of the thing and therefore the most confusing is that Davis apparently likes a Left/Right instead of a Strong/Weak side, which means that the Offense(and the fans) doesnt know who is the pred and where the pressure is coming from.
            Also, the defense is called a 4-3 under, but it looks more like a 3-4 and , we will only have 3 players with their hands in the ground, since the Predator will be standing sometimes. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

  • Baloophi

    What’s more disturbing about this whole “Nnamdi eats lunch in his car rather than with the team” story? That Nnamdi has no sense of team, or that apparently we went over coverages during lunch? Discuss!