Eagles Notebook
Posted: April 10th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 38 Comments »This is the time of the year when we can get some good hints from Dave Spadaro. A comment in today’s column (Are the Eagles Set at WR?) caught my eye:
“What the Eagles need to determine is if a draft pick — a high one, perhaps — in two weeks is better than what they have on the roster. Given the other needs on this team, would the Eagles invest in a wide receiver in, say, the first three rounds of the draft?”
A bit later…
“Both Jackson and Maclin are extremely talented and nobody would argue that. Maclin is in the last year of his contract, a situation the team certainly comprehends.”
Hmm. Could the Eagles be looking for a WR? In a recent mock draft I had them take Texas speedster Marquise Goodwin in the 3rd round. We’ve talked plenty about Tavon Austin being a target if the team trades back in the 1st. There are any number of talented guys who could be 2nd round targets. It is hard to know exactly who will be on the board since this is such an odd WR group. Other 3rd round types could be big physical guys like Aaron Dobson or Chris Harper. The Eagles could go for a slot receiver like Ryan Swope. I don’t know what Denard Robinson’s value is, but he’s the kind of versatile player that Chip Kelly could love.
This could all be a smokescreen, but it feels more like management wanting Dave to give the fanbase a hint that the team could be adding a WR so the fans don’t go nuts when we pass on DBs and front seven guys. For those who say “nonsense”, remember that the Eagles had pictures of Kevin Kolb visiting the NovaCare in the pre-draft copy of Eagles Insider back in April 2007. Those pictures likely weren’t an accident.
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For PE.com I put together a list of some mid-to-late round draft prospects the team could like on offense. I’ll do defense for next week.
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Sheil Kapadia recently posted some comments from players on changes from Chip Kelly and thoughts on the upcoming season. There is nothing groundbreaking, but this is the time of year when all is well and it is fun to hear what everyone has to say. I’m sure some veteran players aren’t thrilled with the new way of doing business, but we won’t hear about that for at least another month or so, and maybe not until Training Camp.
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Make sure to keep checking EaglesBlog.net. I post whatever draft nuggets I stumble across.
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Here’s some insight from an Oregon fan in regard to a short post of mine where I wondered if Chip Kelly preferred small-to-medium size QBs or he just happened to get those guys.
“Chip did try and recruit Terrelle Pryor and EJ Manuel but he also recruited Tahj Boyd, Johnny Manziel and Munchie Legeaux to go with current Ducks Marcus Mariota, Jake Rodrigues and Jeff Lockie. That would seem to indicate that being 6’2″ 200+ is kind of a min benchmark for the QBs. I don’t think size of the QB matters as much as the efficiency of the QBs brain, though.
You have also mentioned what kind of OL Oregon goes after. Oregon has had terrible luck recruiting OL in part because the nature of recruiting sees a lot of negative recruiting tactics. I never agreed with it, but for a long time recruits were led to believe that Oregon’s offense won’t prepare you for the NFL and as a result we made due with a lot of 2 and 3* recruits at OL. We’ve also lost out on players who were previously interested because of the way we practice (they didn’t want to do that everyday). Chip has tried to go after the best players but he also goes after players that fit what we do which is why the idea that Andre Smith would end up in Philly seems so absolutely ludicrous to me. No way you can expect that guy to stay in shape consistently. (In fact, when Chip first got to Oregon all of the OL went on diets to lose their ‘babyfat’ before resculpting themselves and this is now how all OL start at Oregon. If you come in with too much fat, you lose it first before building that muscle back up.)
While he’s started to rise into the late first, Kyle Long could be a guy to watch for with the 2nd pick. Of course, some of these OL are real high on upside so there are a lot of different way to approach the draft.”
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My first choice for the draft is still trading back. One of the tough questions is always…for what?
Sheil Kapadia put up a great post analyzing possible trade scenarios. He listed possible partners and then went through to show what the Eagles could get based on different trade value systems. Teams won’t be dying to move up this year so don’t expect the Eagles to get max value if they do work out a deal.
I think my fantasy scenario would be to trade with Miami (pick 12) and then to get their pair of 3rd round picks.
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Jimmy Bama has a few interesting nuggets up in today’s post.
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David Syvertsen did an NFC West draft preview.
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Justin Hunter would be sweet!!!
Thought you’d address the Geno Smith/Daniel Jeremiah thing today. Thought it was very interesting.
Saving that for Thursday.
I should never have doubted you.
I’ve never been so wrong.
What happened? What happened?
I wonder if we might try trade Avant and/or Maclin? While Benn, Momah, Cooper and Johnson are nice depth, none of them have shown they can be either a reliable slot WR or outside presence, so adding a WR is not out of the question
Would make some sense, but team also might want to keep Mac to see if Kelly can coach him up. Avant could easily be dealt or cut.
The Eagles have a great website and I love Dave’s hints, which also come through Twitter. In his article, Dave did emphasize that the Eagles have lots of bodies at WR of all sizes, so a draft pick might not be necessary.
Tommy, what do you think are must-draft positions? RT, LT insurance, a DL and a NT?
Only 2 real “needs”: LT insurance, DE. There are many other spots I “want” addressed, but the team filled holes in FA to have freedom with the draft.
To me, corner(s), safety(s), DT(s). (Using DT to include the 3-4 DE).
If need be there is still O-line help that can be signed in free agency, making that a draft want more than a draft need.
Dave is tough to read. Most of the time he is flying very blind. But once in a while he will bring something out of semi left field. Like if the public kinda has a set idea of possibilities, he will sort of massage the public to additional possibilities that are somewhat likely.
My take, WR is a possibility with some buzz in the building. The disparity between the buzz in the building and the general public is something he needed to address. It would definitely be interesting if he addressed this under orders from management, or if management ever uses Dave to smoke screen.
Trade down for next year’s picks and pick up the franchise QB. Unless Kelly really thinks there’s one already on the roster… it’s fun looking at all the different positions and thinking about upgrades, but at the end of the day you live and die with your QB these days.
Problem is that all 32 teams can see big time potential in next year’s 1st round. I think teams will be very, very hesitant to deal those picks.
And waiting till next year isn’t always a great idea. Ask Matt Barkley about that.
Indeed, although I’m still thinking Barkley will be a good NFL QB.
I think leadership, intangibles, ability to read defences and work ethic can mask a lot of physical deficiencies a la Tom Brady… or maybe he was just carried by superior talent around him. We’ll see…
Maybe Chargers? If they think Rivers still is their man and feel like they could compete this year… Possibly the Lions could move up just a slot to secure the OT they want… Even the Dolphins might feel like making a splash this year is more important than thinking about next years QB crop given they’ve got Tannehill. There’s even Carolina and New Orleans to consider…
I’m just thinking of teams with penciled in QBs, need for OTs and a chance to be relevant this year. Nobody has really touched on this much… Just throwing uneducated ideas out there, what else is there to do, unless you’re T-Law or Sheil.
I’m not really expecting a WR early in this draft. A TE, perhaps, as early as round 2.
Same..I think one of these 3 will be birds: Kelce, Escobar, Kasa
I was just playing this ridiculous draft game at the site first-pick.com … you can draft for whichever team you want to, and just about every time your pick comes up, it offers you some very generous (and absurd) trades.
If Howie could duplicate the success most of us have playing this game, we’d really have something.
I think teams will definitely be hesitant about how much they give up in trades this year, but I have a hard time seeing it as difficult of a trading environment as you do. I would be stunned if we traded with the Dolphins and didn’t get a 2nd round pick as part of the deal. First off, would the Dolphins even view giving up two thirds instead of say their 2nd and their 5th as a better trade? Trade value wise, the 2nd and 5th is just slightly more valuable, but giving up two thirds would mean that they wouldn’t have a pick between the 54th pick and 111th pick. That significantly limits your flexibility in the draft. If you trade the later 2nd and a 5th instead, that still allows the Dolphins to move up or down in those early rounds so they can target most players they would want throughout he 2nd and 3rd rounds. Second off, I’m still not 100% sure what to think of Howie Roseman, but one thing that I am almost certain of is that he is very good at maximizing trade value. I think you’re definitely right that we will get less than the trade value chart would otherwise suggest, but two thirds just seems like a poor deal to me, even with the top of the draft not being elite.
Generally the team trading up wants a specific player that they otherwise would have no opportunity to get. It has to be a very good offer to entice the team they are trying to trade with to give up the opportunity to draft so high.
The NFL ran an article about Reggie McKenzie looking to trade out of 3 to restock the Raider’s much depleted stock cupboard. If true, It would tend to show that it is a buyers market. I think we have far more chance of shifting our second than our first.
I don’t disagree with that at all. I think it is pretty clear it is a buyers market. In a balanced market, according to the draft trade chart, which outdated and imperfect as it may be is still arguably the best generic value system available, the Eagles 4th overall pick (worth 1800) should get in return from the Dolphins their 12th overall pick (worth 1200), their second 2nd round pick (54th overall, worth 360), their first 3rd round pick (77th overall, worth 205) and their 5th round pick (146th overall, worth 33). That total comes to 1798. (Kapadia suggested 12th, 42nd, 111th, 146th, and 217th, which is also very close to coming up to 1800 with a total value of 1789.6). In this draft, I fully agree with Tommy, you, and others that there is little chance we see anything close to that.
That being said, while I fully agree that it is a buyers market, I question the extent of how much of a buyers market it is. Tommy’s proposed trade is the 12th overall, and both the Dolphins third round picks. I proposed the 12th overall, 54th overall and the 146th overall which in reality is not all that much more valuable of a trade, but it does include the Dolphin’s second round pick. I just have a hard time seeing us trading back 8 spots in the top of the draft without picking up a second rounder for the reasons I listed above.
I read Duck07’s comment and posted it in full on the EMB yesterday. I was interested in the correlation of what Chip did on OL with the resources available and which of Southland’s OL at ‘Bama and Miami over the last 4-years would or wouldn’t fit. He spoke about Andre Smith not being a fit. While he predates Southland’s time, he was a typical high recruit ‘Bama lineman similar maybe to Fluker? Equally, would Oregon’s Long have been able to start for Southland in either of his last 2 stops?
Talk about having parallel lines of thought I posted a 4 (picks) in (round) 7 mock draft as a way to gauge people’s thoughts on nuggets and fallers. I also looked a Jimmy’s article and in particular a the link to mock draftable; what fun. There I stumbled upon Edmund Kugbila of Valdosta State. Had I of come across him earlier maybe he’d of made my 4 in 7 –
210 Dalton Freeman 6’5″ 291lb OC Clemson (171 knockdown blocks in 49 career starts)
212 Terrence Garvin 6’2″ 217lb West Virginia (Career 21.5 TFLs, 11.5 sacks, 3FF, 3 Ints and 11 PBUs)
218 Jake Knott 6’2″ 243lb LB Iowa State (Career 10 FFs, 8 Ints, 15 PBUs and 18 TFLs)
239 Rufus Johnson 6’6″ 268lb DE Tarleton St (JUCO transfer. 2year career 14.5 sacks, 32 TFLs, 2 FFs)
UDFA target, Rob Lohr, DT Vanderbilt. Local kid played at Phoenixville High School, held up well in the SEC.
I know the following is not Eagles related but I still think its a great site
http://www.thefootballeducator.com/
Its made by the former GM of the Broncos and really give good insight into how things operate in an NFL FO
You are awesome Tommy. Love reading your articles. Im here everyday!
Re: Missed Opportunities on Draft Day [reposted & edited]
Since the 1969 draft, the Eagles either had, traded away, or traded for what turned out to be 16 Top-10 draft picks.
This year is No. 17.
They’ve hit on a couple, like DT Jerome Brown and QB D-Mac. But mostly the Eagles missed . . . and missed badly. (Best 1st-Rd drafting: Buddy Ryan. Worst drafting: a tie between Pete Retzlaff as GM in the late ’60s-early ’70s and HC Marion Campbell in the early- to mid-’80s.)
Listed below are all 16 Top-10 picks.
What you’ll see is the team choosing immediately after the Eagles not only selected a better player . . . those teams selected a HOFer or All Pro. It’s not just painful to read. It’s mind numbing.
1969:
Eagles (No. 3) – RB Leroy Keyes, Purdue
Steelers (No. 4) – DT Joe Greene, N. Texas State – HOFer
1970:
Eagles (No. 6) – LB/TE Steve Zabel, Oklahoma
Bengals (No. 7.) – DT Mike Reid, Penn State – All Pro before retiring early.
1971:
Eagles (No. 5) – DE Richard Harris, Grambling
Jets (No. 6) – RB John Riggins, Kansas -HOFer
1973:
Eagles (No. 3) – OT Jerry Sisemore, UTexas (good player)
Patriots (No. 4) – OG John Hannah, Alabama – HOFer
1974 – 1978 . . . Years in the Desert:
Eagles HC Mike McCormack arrived in ’73 and promptly emptied the draft cupboard . . . In 1973, he sent two 1st Round Picks traded to the Rams for QB Roman Gabriel. In 1974, he traded two 1st Rd picks traded to Cinn for MLB Bill Bergey. And in 1975, right after the draft he traded the Bird’s 1978 1st Rd Pick again to Cinn for the Bengal’s *4th Rd pick* QB Mike Boryla (IDIOTIC)
The Eagles picks were used by the Rams for Penn State RB John Cappelletti (No. 11) and Notre Dame DT Mike Fanning (No. 9); the Bengals for Okla WR Billy Brooks (No. 11), U-Houston DT Wilson Whitley (No. 8), Notre Dame DE Ross Browner (No. 8). Imagine if Dick Vermeil took over the Eagles and they had those guys.
1983:
Eagles (No. 8) – FB Michael Haddix, Miss State
Houston (No. 9) – OG Bruce Matthews, USC – HOFer
1984:
Eagles (No. 4) – WR Kenny Jackson, Penn State
Chiefs (No. 5) – D/NT Bill Maas, Pitt – Def ROY / 2x All Pro
1985:
Eagles (No. 9) – OT Kevin Allen, Indiana [just finish prison sentence]
Jets (No. 10) – WR Al Toon, Wisconsin – 3x All Pro (concussions cost him HOF)
1986 – 90 . . . Buddy Ball:
Buddy Ryan ran the draft, choosing:
RB Keith Byars, No. 10 in ’86, DT Jerome Brown, No. 9 in ’87, TE Keith Jackson, No. 13 in ’88, traded ’89 choice to the Colts for hold-out OT Ron Solt (the Colts used the Birds’ pick (No. 22) for the erratic but 3x All Pro / 5x Pro Bowl WR Andre Rison), and CB Ben Smith, No. 22 in ’90. In terms of 1st Rounders actually drafted, Buddy had the best run — it seems to me, at least.
1991 & 1992 [The Kotite Era]:
Eagles (No. 8 plus ’92 1st Rd pick) – OT Antone Davis, TN
Lions (No. 10) – WR Herman Moore, UVa – 3x All Pro
1995:
Eagles (No. 7 – trade up) – DE Mike Mamula, BC
Seahawks (No. 8) – WR Joey Galloway, Ohio State
1999:
Eagles (No. 2) – QB Donovan McNabb . . . enough said.
2000:
Eagles (No. 6) – DT Corey Simon . . . solid for awhile.
2013:
First time in a long time the Eagles are in the Top 10. It’s been a long time since the GM/coach missed as badly as, say, GM Pete
I seriously doubt they go WR unless it’s late, and even then, they have lots of guys on the roster who are mid-round draft picks, Benn (2nd), Salas (4th), McNutt (6th), Cunningham (6th), Ron Johnson (6th), and D Johnson showed he can be a quick slot guy. So it’s either top of the draft, where they have more urgent needs, or UDFA. Guys I’d watch for: Ryan Spadola (Lehigh), Rodney Smith (Florida), Harrison, Sinkfield (N Iowa), Buckner (Arizona). Marlon Brown (Georgia)
They have Harbor, Carrier and Momah competing with Emil for the H-back job, again, can’t see an early pick for a backup role (Reed is not going to unseat Casey) – now guys who might be interesting along with Kasa and Sims, Kyler Reed (Nebraska), Luke Willson (Rice), Ryan Griffin (Connecticut). If they go TE early, McDonald (Rice) and Kelce will get long looks as all around TEs.
OL: Long, Armstead, Quessenberry and Fragel on the 2nd day. Later picks/UDFAs to watch, Vinston Painter (VT), guy who had a tremendous workout, Wade Jacobson (Washington State), off the charts.
Guard (b/c short arms) Garrett Gilkey is a sleeper, mediocre 40 but otherwise fine athlete, really small college who looked like he belongs at the Senior Bowl, put him in a NFL conditioning program? Winters, Bailey, Watford, Thornton, Baca, Bakhtiari, Uzzi, Brenner, lot’s of athletic OGs who’d fit.
C: Schwenke would be a good fit, sleeper I want to know more about, Eric Kush (California, PA), is fulled sized but Kelce athletic, played through ankle injury at Shrine game.
This post is right in my “wheel house”
Lane Johnson or (defense 1st) and Kyle Long
and
Marquise Goodwin
id remove the guess work, take Dion and Kyle Long and call it a day!
i can live with that.
Throw in Kiko Alonso at #101 while we are at it…that dude is a scary animal. Not the best Charecter, but chip has already managed it
This WR class is fantastic, you can get a bunch of guys that can really help the team in the 3rd-6th. My only problem would be if they passed up safety to draft one. Safety is still a major concern for me. You’ve got one guy with a history of injuries and one guy that was benched in NE. They must add some talent at the position. I LOVE that they are taking a shot on Kenny Phillips, it’s exactly what I wanted them to do, but you’ve got to have a backup plan in place in case it doesn’t work out. Guys that are injured all the time tend to stay injured all the time, unfortunately. If Phillips can stay healthy, then you’ve got a guy pushing an underperforming player like Chung–brings the best out in both.
I find Tavon a very interesting one to rank. If you consider the NFL as a whole, I can’t think of any team that wouldn’t be considerably improved by having him on it; not sure you can say that about any other guy in the draft. With that said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to argue that he’s the best player in the draft. Any chance he goes top-5?
I’ve been speculating on a Maclin trade for a while now and there haven’t seemed to be many logical destinations. Rams and Vikings both have extra picks in the first round but there’s a dire cap situation in St Louis and there’s not much of a need in Minnesota.
After a bit of thinking, I’ve concluded that the Texans are likely to be our best shot of getting a high pick for Maclin. They’ve got a pretty late first round pick, WR is their biggest need and they have a cap situation that should allow them to take on J-Mac’s contract.
I don’t think it would be too difficult to convince them that Maclin + a conditional mid-late round pick next year would be better than taking a flyer on Keenan ‘questionable knees’ Allen or DeAndre Hopkins at #27.