Evening Roster Talk

Posted: April 11th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 83 Comments »

My earlier post on Geno Smith sparked another spirited debate.  I can’t recall another recent draft prospect that led to so many arguments and/or intense discussions.  I think Geno makes for a tough subject for a few reasons.  First, the Eagles are completely unsettled at QB.  If you don’t have the answer, you’re looking for one.  Next, we saw rookies like RG3, Andrew Luck, and Russell Wilson all have big time seasons in 2012 and that has fans wanting a stud QB more than ever.  The final point is that Geno is a talented QB and good prospect.  This isn’t a situation where we’re talking about a huge project or highly questionable player.  Geno can be a solid NFL QB.

AC Viking offered some interesting questions in response to my takes on why not to draft Smith.  I have no problem with a reader trying to move the discussion along.  QB is a strange position and can be tough for people to agree on.  Jimmy Bama and I had an argument last month about E.J. Manuel.  He rattled off all the reasons that a team should be interested in Manuel.  Nothing would budge my opinion that I want no part of Manuel.  Jimmy made a sound, logical argument.  Didn’t matter to me.

This wasn’t a case of me being obstinate for the heck of it.  I just don’t think Manuel is going to pan out in the NFL.  If he’s on the board late in the draft, I can live with that, but I would still doubt that he’ll pan out no matter when he’s taken or where he goes.  Simply put, I don’t see an NFL QB.

Over the past 15 years I’ve learned a lot about evaluating QBs.  The worst thing you can do is get caught up in too many tangibles:

* He’s got ideal size

* He’s got a great arm

* He is a terrific athlete

* He’s got great stats

RB is a position where you could go by numbers and make pretty good evaluations without ever watching tape.  QB is a position where the eye test is everything.  Several of the QBs with the best numbers in college history were NFL flops.  Results are nice, but style points are critical.

RG3 posted freaky numbers, but more importantly he was a clutch player.  He came up huge in critical situations in wins over Oklahoma and TCU.  Not only could he get the job done, but he got it done when it mattered.

QBs must be smart, instinctive, or both.  They must be natural leaders.  They need to handle pressure well.  They must have the mental and emotional toughness to handle failure and not stay down.  They must be able to take coaching.  Arm strength, size, and TD passes won’t tell you if the prospect measures well in any of these categories.

Mike Mayock said something pretty profound a few years back.  He was talking about Brady Quinn and made the point that Quinn simply didn’t look like a natural QB.  Quinn had all the measurables and intangibles.  But Mayock was exactly right…he just didn’t look like a natural QB.  I’ve never heard anyone else make that point, but I think it is great.  I feel the same way about EJ Manuel.  In theory, he should be a terrific QB prospect.  When I watch him play, I see a football player, not a QB.  Tim Tebow fits this description, although in a slightly different way.  Tebow is a below average passer.  Manuel isn’t close to that, but I do think he’s awkward.

There is no perfect formula for finding QBs.  That’s why Tom Brady and Kurt Warner weren’t 1st rounders, but JaMarcus Russell and Joey Harrington were Top 5 picks.  The best advice I have is to watch the prospect in several games and really focus on how he plays and not what the result of the plays are.  Picture the QB playing for the Eagles and facing a tough situation.  Is this someone you trust to get the job done?  Remember while doing this that Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick were great college players that dominated the sport and went #2 and #1 overall.

Also think in terms of these questions…do I think this player can “own” the huddle, the team, and the locker room?  Is this the person I want to build my team around?  Is this the person/player I want to be the centerpiece of my franchise?

There is one final x-factor with QBs…work ethic/competitive streak.  Michael Vick might be the ultimate case study in this regard.  As a Falcon, he had no work ethic off the field, but was ultra-competitive on gameday.  He’s much better off the field as an Eagle, but his old bad habits permanently affected his playing style.  It is easy to find QBs that will go all out on gameday, but you’ve got someone special if he is a workaholic that does anything and everything on the other 6 days a week.

* * * * *

Dion Lewis was traded to the Browns for ILB Emmanuel Acho.  I covered the trade here.

How does this impact the RB situation?  Geoff Mosher reported on Twitter that Chris Polk is down to 210 pounds.  He also reported that the coaches had some Red Zone plays for Polk last year, but “he was hurt”.  I don’t know if that is from Polk’s agent or an Eagles source.

Polk is in the lead for the #3 RB job, but he’s no lock.  I think the Eagles will spend a late round pick on a RB to battle Polk for the job (or to be the #4 RB).  I tend to think they’ll go for a smaller RB (Kerwynn Williams or Kenjon Barner maybe), but that’s just a guess.  Shady McCoy has solid size and Bryce Brown is plenty big.  I know some fans would love a big back, but Brown and Polk may be big enough.

The Eagles will likely add a good UDFA RB as well.  That’s where they got Polk last year.

* * * * *

The Eagles cut 4 players:

WR Ronald Johnsno

ILB Ryan Rau

ILB Marcus Dowtin

CB Chris Hawkins

Johnson was the best player, but suffered a nasty ankle injury last summer.  Rau flashed in the preseason, but might be on the small side for the 3-4.


83 Comments on “Evening Roster Talk”

  1. 1 SleepingDuck said at 10:31 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    If the Eagles were to trade back to the teens, would you be ok with Smith then or would not take him all together?

  2. 2 TommyLawlor said at 10:42 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    I could live with Geno at that point, but I just don’t see him as someone that will be a star QB in the NFL. Better value at #12 (or wherever) than at #4.

  3. 3 Jerry Pomroy said at 10:58 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Value is defined very differently now with rookie wage pool and especially with QBs. You’re no longer sinking the ship with salary to sign a top draft pick, including QBs, so more teams can afford to take chances and not hurt their teams both on field & with salary cap.

  4. 4 TommyLawlor said at 11:08 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    This is about so much more than money. Takes time to develop a QB. If you invest time in one, that’s time lost from developing another. Could also negatively affect skill players from developing well.

    Money angle applies well to other positions. QB is much more complex.

  5. 5 Jerry Pomroy said at 7:58 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I agree. Just making the case that teams are much more willing to take a chance on a guy at QB than wait around for the “sure thing”, which may never come their way anyway. Such is the position that I see the Eagles. They can’t bet on the odds that they’ll be able to land one if next years top QBs in the draft without having to mortgage the farm as many other teams will be vying for those same players. They would need to be back in at least the top ten in next years draft or trade up to get there. Here they pick at 4 & have a very good chance of landing of the top QB in the draft that looks like he can be a pretty good player in the NFL if he’s more the guy from earlier in WV season than the latter of the season. I share the same view on Geno as you do. Think he’ll become a good player, just maybe not a star. Although the potential to be a star is there.

  6. 6 OR said at 10:33 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    “I can’t recall another recent draft prospect that led to so many arguments and/or intense discussions.”

    Sounds like the perfect fit for the next Philly QB.

  7. 7 TommyLawlor said at 10:42 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    So true.

  8. 8 Anthony said at 10:42 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Man I hope we draft QB Scott over Geno or Manuel

  9. 9 Anthony said at 10:45 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Tommy, would you be ok with QB Scott in the 3rd?

  10. 10 TommyLawlor said at 10:49 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    I could live with that.

  11. 11 Anders said at 11:09 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I would like to know why you are so high on Scott but so down on Manuel? Both are equal athletic, but Manuel is a much better QB imo.

    I would not touch Scott before the 5th round.

  12. 12 shah8 said at 12:18 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Tommy’s basically saying that Manuel is too close to Todd Marinovich. I’ve not seen too much of Manuel the last season. From what I do see of him, he has a lot of athletic ability and does not make plays such that such athletic ability is validated.

  13. 13 RC5000 said at 3:57 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Highly unlikely. They have 4 QBs and you don’t take a QB in the 3rd round who might end up on the practice squad. They took Kafka who had a similar experience level to Scott in the 4th and they had a lot of picks.
    Scott is late 4th/5th for teams looking for a young backup QB. How anyone sees NFL starter in Scott and not in Smith or Manuel I have no idea. He is a backup prospect at this point.

  14. 14 Arby1 said at 10:15 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I’d prefer to use our 5th on him if we must take another backup QB this year. Is he potential strarter for us? Ok, take him in the 3rd, but QB doesn’t seem to be a priority to me this year.

  15. 15 Flyin said at 11:15 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Tommy, how would you rate Foles in the categories you have mentioned in this paragraph from above, after seeing him in 6 games?…

    “QBs must be smart, instinctive, or both. They must be natural leaders.
    They need to handle pressure well. They must have the mental and
    emotional toughness to handle failure and not stay down. They must be
    able to take coaching. Arm strength, size, and TD passes won’t tell you
    if the prospect measures well in any of these categories.”

    I know you were not a big fan of him when the Eagles drafted him, however, you started to accept the pick more positively, over time.

  16. 16 Neil said at 11:25 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    The people, for Foles they thirst.

  17. 17 Flyin said at 11:27 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Aye Aye

  18. 18 TommyLawlor said at 12:13 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I think Foles rates pretty highly in those areas. The questions with him get back to on-field issues. Can he be a good enough deep passer to be a regular starter? Part of this is arm strength, part anticipation.

  19. 19 Flyin said at 12:20 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    And footwork/mechanics on the deep ball? This falls into the coachable part.

  20. 20 Rob Crawford said at 11:31 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    Earlier post got erased. You may not know it, but you’re referencing Foles in your description. Vick is Iverson. Looking to be the playmaker. A qb needs to be Magic or Stockton…distribute the ball. Foles has the intangibles, and far worse athletes have succeeded. Forget the losses last year…Aikmen lost his first year. Qb is mental, and Foles has it.

  21. 21 Baloophi said at 11:31 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    So I shouldn’t order an authentic Ryan Rau jersey?

  22. 22 TommyLawlor said at 12:10 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Au contraire…collector’s items.

  23. 23 Baloophi said at 11:43 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    For those that watched enough WVU games to weigh in, how instrumental was Geno Smith to the offense the last two years?

    I’m wondering if Dana Holgorsen’s offense and the other skill players were a bigger factor in his relative success as a QB. To put it another way, what is it about Geno Smith’s game that makes him worthy of the fourth pick in the draft as opposed to QB’s under Kelly’s Oregon offense?

  24. 24 Flyin said at 11:53 PM on April 11th, 2013:

    The name Geno brings back memories, however, spelled Gino and the restaurant Gino’s. This the place where we would get Kentucky Fried Chicken. With the Colonel on the box and bucket.

    Oh, you said “game” not name.

  25. 25 ICDogg said at 1:50 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Did you know that Gino’s was founded by Gino Marchetti? He was playing for the Baltimore Colts at the time. One of his partners was Alan Ameche, also on the Colts.

  26. 26 Baloophi said at 2:07 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Alan Ameche’s cousin? Don Ameche. Lots of learning in this thread!

  27. 27 TommyLawlor said at 12:10 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Very interesting question.

  28. 28 livingonapear said at 12:16 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    There are definite exceptions. Rivers certainly didn’t look like a pro QB with his drop back.

    I will say that Dysert definitely looks the part. He looks very calm, like every move has a purpose. Also has a nice touch on his passes.

    Looked at a picture of of Dysert. Wow, Miami (Ohio) certainly has a type.


  29. 29 Neil said at 1:45 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    The eagles must draft Dysert to ensure that they have the most dashing pair of quarterbacks in the league.

  30. 30 livingonapear said at 2:44 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    The Beast of two gingers

  31. 31 Anders said at 10:08 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    If there is one QB I would take a flyer on late it is Dysert, more so than Matt Scott. I can see why people like Scott, but right now he is a very unpolished version of Kaepernick coming out.

  32. 32 GvilleEagleFan said at 12:39 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Hey Tommy, I remember you talking to Jimmy on one of the H2H shows about not necessarily needing to spend a high pick on a 5 tech DE. Disregarding Curry’s possible move there, who do you see as possible fits at that position in the draft and how long would you wait on some of these guys? Is this a spot we should be looking for an extra third rounder to address, for example, or could we wait for the fifth or sixth?

  33. 33 GvilleEagleFan said at 12:42 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Also realized that this is the position I’m having the hardest time evaluating a potential player’s fit, as to my knowledge it isn’t an alignment we ever really saw in Andy’s 4-3. What do you look for when projecting a player to the 5 tech?

  34. 34 D3FB said at 5:23 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    The way i find it easiest to explain is think of the classic 43 non wide nine LDEs. The guys who are 6’4 or more and 285ish but still are DEs not DTs. Two of the best current 5techs are Calais Campbell and JJ Watt.

  35. 35 Anders said at 9:54 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Also a Justin Smith or Richard Seymour if we include some older players in the pass rush mold, but we could also be looking at a Red Bryant type player.

    Another name for a potential 5 tech could be Devin Taylor, his tape isnt so impressive but he is 6-7 and got better or equal atletetisme to all of the above

    I think Ansah would be the best 5 tech coming out of the draft

  36. 36 D3FB said at 11:19 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I don’t know that Taylor has the build to play the five. It is alot more physically demanding than a true LDE and he’s just so slight of frame.

  37. 37 Sb2bowl said at 12:39 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    You play at Dickinson, eh? I grew up in Mechanicsburg, so you guys aren’t too far away.

  38. 38 D3FB said at 1:04 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Haha yea thats cool. D3Center is actually my roommate here too.

  39. 39 Sb2bowl said at 10:54 AM on April 15th, 2013:

    Crazy. I played HS ball for Mechanicsburg. Loved bowling more, so thats where I went. You grow up in that area?

  40. 40 D3FB said at 2:44 PM on April 15th, 2013:

    Grew up in Minnesota moved to Pottstown when I was in high school.

  41. 41 D3FB said at 5:36 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Players in this draft that could be 5 techs for us include:

    Ziggy Ansah, Datone Jones, Margus Hunt, Joe Kruger, Mallaciah Goodman, Quinton Dial, Kapron Lewis Moore, and Craig Roh.

  42. 42 jshort said at 12:58 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I did not watch a lot of WVU football, but I did see Geno Smith lay an egg in his final game playing in front of a national TV audience. It was cold, snow was falling, wet ball, whatever. This doesn’t pass my eye test. This makes me wonder what his mentality is going to be playing a game in Philadelphia, Green Bay, Chicago, etc, in December. Is he going to go in a panic when it is raining or snowing and the ball is wet? Nassib, In my opinion, passed the eye test in that game, and I had never paid attention to him before. Maybe I’m way off base, I’m sure he had terrific games. I’m not a scout. I know shit. But, Tommy, you said eye test.

    I like Nick Foles. That one play against Oregon, when he is under heavy pressure, getting hit, his eyes still down field, makes a play left-handed and completes it. Then this rookie gets thrown in as the starter. Do the coaches change the game plan to help the rookie be successful? Hell no! We’ll just keep throwing as if he was a seasoned veteran. With a makeshift O-line and less skill players, he doesn’t look that bad for a rookie, he actually pulls off an impressive win in Tampa. Am I saying he is going to be the starting franchise QB for the next ten years? No. I don’t know if he will even fit this new system. What I am saying is, he passes my eye test, and I’ll be pulling for him wherever he is. I know he’s not that mobile, but I like the way he moves around in the pocket. It should be an interesting QB competition.

  43. 43 GvilleEagleFan said at 1:16 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    If only this was remotely possible in reality:

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 17 (PITT): Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama (A)
    Round 1 Pick 20 (CHI): Dion Jordan, DE, Oregon (A)
    Round 2 Pick 8 (TENN): Jonathan Cyprien, SS, Florida International (A-)
    Round 2 Pick 12 (CAR): Margus Hunt, DE, Southern Methodist (B)
    Round 3 Pick 5: Travis Kelce, TE, Cincinnati (C-)
    Round 3 Pick 15 (MIA): Tyrann Mathieu, CB, LSU (B+)
    Round 3 Pick 20 (MIA): Barrett Jones, C, Alabama (A)
    Round 4 Pick 4: D.J. Swearinger, FS, South Carolina (B)
    Round 5 Pick 3: Josh Boyce, WR, TCU (D+)
    Round 7 Pick 4: Matt Scott, QB, Arizona (A-)
    Round 7 Pick 6: Cory Grissom, DT, South Florida (A)
    Round 7 Pick 33 (COMP): Kayvon Webster, CB, South Florida (A)

    via first-pick.com, grades assigned by the website, not me.

  44. 44 GvilleEagleFan said at 1:20 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Picked up Jordan by taking 2nd rounders from Det, Mia, Minn, Tenn, and Car to move back pick by pick as I watched Warmack and Jordan fall, then packaged Det, Mia, Minn, and our 2 to get Jordan. No way could we find room on our roster for 6 2nd rounders, the plan all along was to jump back in the first.

    Side note: Fisher fell to the Cowboys at 18 and Lane Johnson went to the Giants at 19. Crazy to think how volatile this draft is.

  45. 45 ICDogg said at 1:42 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    crazy game.

    Your Picks:
    Round 1 Pick 17 (PITT): Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma (A)
    Round 1 Pick 22 (STL): Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah (A)
    Round 2 Pick 5 (CINN): Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame (A)
    Round 2 Pick 9 (BUF): Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State (A)
    Round 2 Pick 14 (STL): Jonathan Cyprien, SS, Florida International (A)
    Round 3 Pick 5: Matt Elam, SS, Florida (A)
    Round 3 Pick 16 (STL): B.W. Webb, CB, William & Mary (B)
    Round 4 Pick 4: D.J. Swearinger, FS, South Carolina (B)
    Round 4 Pick 16 (STL): Brian Schwenke, C, California (A)
    Round 5 Pick 3: Gavin Escobar, TE, San Diego State (A)
    Round 7 Pick 4: Matt Scott, QB, Arizona (A-)
    Round 7 Pick 6: Kahlid Wooten, CB, Nevada (A)
    Round 7 Pick 33 (COMP): Caleb Sturgis, K, Florida (A)

  46. 46 GvilleEagleFan said at 2:30 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    What’s your reasoning on drafting three safeties? Strictly BPA, or are you just ready to cut Nate Allen (a perfectly valid point of view)? Or are you concerned that Phillips might not make the team?

    But yeah, it’s pretty hard not to just keep trading back to 17. I think that’s the sweet spot of the draft, mostly because the OL guys aren’t getting past Dallas or the Giants.

  47. 47 ICDogg said at 2:50 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Didn’t really take it that seriously. Just looked at the “Best Available” board, and grabbed some guys I liked or (in the case of a few of them) heard were good.

    I don’t know that I would have taken a second strong safety but Elam was still sitting out there in the 3rd round and looked like he was a level above what else was available at that spot.

  48. 48 GvilleEagleFan said at 3:03 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I was shocked to see him there, he hasn’t dropped that far in the six or so drafts I’ve done. At that point, I’m kinda ok with letting Allen and Swearinger fight it out for a roster spot. I also have a hard time not ending up with the Honey Badger on every team I draft. He falls so far every time, think the Birds would have any interest in him in the third?

  49. 49 SleepingDuck said at 3:13 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Round 1 Pick 12 (MIA): Dion Jordan, DE, Oregon (A)

    Round 2 Pick 6 (ARI): Tyler Eifert, TE, Notre Dame (A)

    Round 2 Pick 11 (T.B.): Matt Elam, SS, Florida (A)

    Round 2 Pick 22 (MIA): Menelik Watson, OT, Florida State (C)

    Round 3 Pick 6 (CLE): EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State (C)

    Round 3 Pick 17 (PITT): D.J. Swearinger, FS, South Carolina (C+)

    Round 4 Pick 6 (ARI): Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina (A)

    Round 4 Pick 7 (CLE): Shamarko Thomas, SS, Syracuse (A)

    Round 4 Pick 16 (STL): Brandon McGee, CB, Miami (Fla.) (A)

    Round 4 Pick 18 (PITT): Jordan Reed, TE, Florida (B+)

    Round 4 Pick 29 (T.B.): Mike Glennon, QB, North Carolina State (A)

    Round 5 Pick 3: Marcus Lattimore, RB, South Carolina (A)

    Round 5 Pick 6 (CLE): T.J. McDonald, FS, Southern California (B-)

    Round 5 Pick 7 (ARI): Robert Lester, SS, Alabama (C-)

    Round 5 Pick 22 (MINN): Kenjon Barner, RB, Oregon (B+)

    Round 5 Pick 31 (CLE): Jeff Baca, OG, UCLA (C+)

    Round 6 Pick 5 (CLE): Chris Harper, WR, Kansas State (B)

    Round 6 Pick 16 (STL): Brad Wing, P, LSU (A)

    Round 7 Pick 4: Matt Scott, QB, Arizona (A-)

    Round 7 Pick 6: Lerentee McCray, OLB, Florida (A)

    My draft class is huge. Fun game too.

    Round 7 Pick 33 (COMP): Bruce Taylor, ILB, Virginia Tech (A)

  50. 50 GvilleEagleFan said at 12:24 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Next time try packaging a bunch of 4s or 5s to move back up into the third. I like how the software allows you to end up with an almost entire roster’s worth of draft picks to sign

  51. 51 ICDogg said at 1:18 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    What’s your opinion of Nassib?

  52. 52 Baloophi said at 1:31 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    From the Smokescreen Department: the Eagles cancelled their pre-draft visit with Dee Milliner.

    Somewhat related, does Dee Milliner strike anyone else as Desean Jackson suffering from an allergic reaction to shellfish? Discuss…

  53. 53 Arby1 said at 11:55 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Apparently he doubles in the band on trumpet at halftime.

  54. 54 Ark87 said at 12:23 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    bitter beer face

  55. 55 Warhound said at 8:06 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    😉 So, “Ronald Johnsno(w)”, what’s it like being a Bastard Crow?

  56. 56 TommyLawlor said at 9:53 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Took me a minute to get this. Nice reference.

  57. 57 Warhound said at 12:50 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Thanks – now, how about The Mountain as a NFL lineman?

  58. 58 Ark87 said at 8:34 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Andy Reid liked RoJo a lot. It wouldn’t surprise me if KC picks him up for TC

  59. 59 Mac said at 8:42 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Tommy, I was wondering if you could indulge my question of “whiffability”.

    Are there certain positions that run a great risk of being evaluated incorrectly?
    Are there certain traits (or measurables) that are overvalued/misunderstood?

    It seems like some people get hung up on certain things. I tend to think that for someone who knows what he’s looking for evaluating OL or DL should be less complicated (and therefore less risky) than OLB or QB.

    I also tend to look at things like Vert/Broad jump scores as a more “raw” way of measuring athletic ability. There’s something about having that extra punch of stringy or extra rubberbandish muscle material that can snap a person upward or forward in a hurry that seems special. Verses say… 40 yd dash times which, so long as they’re within acceptable parameters hardly tells the story (i.e. players living or not living up to their timed marks as track athletes)… and bench press marks (which mean nothing if you don’t know how to use your strength/not to mention that for football players real strength stars from the abs down and learning how to use that).

    Is my thinking off base? I’d like to know what you and other members of our community have to say on the subject of “whiffability” because it seems like there are certain factors that can lead to a draft pick being a swing and a whiff.

  60. 60 Ark87 said at 8:46 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I find that pass rushers and QB’s are the Unicorns of the NFL, at least for a handful of teams.

  61. 61 Adam said at 8:45 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Tommy, two questions for you… how many eyebrows would be raised if Chip drafted Dion in the first, Kyle Long mid round, and Kenjon Barner late?

    And how much effect do you think Tavon Austin had on Geno’s current value in the draft?

  62. 62 D3FB said at 11:18 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Throw in Kiko Alonso and John Boyett and we’ll just become Eugene east.

  63. 63 Christopher Miller said at 9:53 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Question to anyone – who would you be ok with the team “surprising” you with at #4? Would you be ok with Austin, Warmack, or Lane Johnson that high? Who else has an outside chance of being selected there if we don’t find suitors for that pick?

  64. 64 A_T_G said at 10:19 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I don’t know about Austin, but I won’t complain about the other two. Lane particularly intrigues me. I think he could become one of those players that makes a lot of people look silly with the aid of hindsight.

  65. 65 Mac said at 10:32 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I’ve got a sneaky suspicion that Johnson will be the “most elite” player from this draft 3 years from now.

  66. 66 Ark87 said at 10:38 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    He definitely has the potential to be better than any of the other O-linemen in the draft. He just won’t start out that way and there’s no guarantee he will get there. I’d be happy to add him to the team though.

  67. 67 Anders said at 10:43 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I think Ansah or Richardson has a great chance to be picked by us at 4th overall as well.

    I dont think we draft Warmack, for while Bama still ran the IZR plays, Warmack does not strike me as a Kelly type of OL.

  68. 68 Bebin Abraham said at 11:52 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    But he is a stoutland type of OL man right. I hate when people say Kelly type of Olineman. Kelly is not running the OL, he’s installing the scheme and if Stoutland didn’t fit the scheme he was running he wouldn’t have been brought in.

  69. 69 austinfan said at 12:10 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Not sure Warmack is at the pro level, I mean as mean as he is on the LOS, he’s lost 5 yards downfield, simply lacks the athleticism to hit NFL LBs on the second level – compare to Peters, who is bigger, and nails DBs.

  70. 70 Anders said at 12:20 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    I meant more in terms of the uptempo style of Kelly. Warmack while good does not have the stamina to keep up if we are going to be playing 70+ snaps a game.
    Also if we are going to do a lot of pulling I rather have Cooper then Warmack. Warmack is great for a team like the Niners or Vikings. Warmack is a better version of Lupati, but if you are going to run a a lot of pulling a guy like Cooper is much better.

  71. 71 ICDogg said at 10:46 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I am not sure that Cooper wouldn’t be a better choice for the Eagles than Warmack, though I don’t think I would be happy with either one at the #4 spot.

  72. 72 austinfan said at 10:50 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    I’m a Texas fan and saw both RGIII and Geno, and there is no comparison as QBs. Heck, Florence, in his first year, in a similar situation as Geno with less offensive talent and no defense or OL, played just as well. Geno is simply nothing special, a product of a college scheme that padded his stats against bad defenses, but when good defenses shut down his easy throws, he struggled. Compared to college, every NFL defense is a “Good defense” in that the windows get smaller.

    QB is 90% mental and 50% physical (Yogism), you have to have the minimal physical talent, decent arm strength (Peyton is getting close to the edge, Ryan is just above the cutoff), accuracy, good mechanics (quick release). But once you have that, athleticism and arm strength aren’t as valuable as advertised or Ryan Leaf and Akili Smith would have been stars and Jeff George would be a sure fired HOF (probably the best arm ever).

    The spread offenses disguise the mental part by providing lots of easy throws for college QBs, match a good WR against a mediocre CB, one move, quick throw, 10-15 yards – so you see high completion percentages and ridiculous yardage numbers from QBs like those on Texas Tech or Florence in Baylor, yet these are not NFL caliber QBs – so throw out the stats for all but pro style offenses (and McCarron because of the ridiculous OL talent he has and a defense that means he’s rarely in pressure situations – the most pressure he faces is in the bedroom).

    One reason Renfree interests me is his coach Cutliffe, who should know, is really selling him – now coaches sell players, but rarely this hard unless they believe in them, and Cutliffe knows what his QB was supposed to do.

    Every QB in this draft has serious flaws, take Scott, he couldn’t beat out Foles despite being a far superior athlete, which suggests he was substantially inferior as a QB. Every FSU fan who I’ve seen post disses Manuel, despite his gaudy stats, Geno struggles when you take his first read away, Glennon and Bray have guns but make me think of Derek Anderson, highly inconsistent throwers.

    This is the kind of QB draft where you identify where a QB would be value, and just wait to see if one of the ones you like drops to that spot. A horrid draft to reach for a QB, but a number of teams will and end up with the next Locker or Gabbert (actually, if he becomes available for a mid-round pick I might try to salvage him – a flop in the 1st rd can be value for a 5th round pick).

  73. 73 Anders said at 11:07 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Its funny you mention Manuel because he is one of the QBs coming from a more pro style offense with zero help of the OL or his playmakers (he did have a very good D).

    Your comment about OL, is why would not touch Manziel EVER, he had the best 2 tackles in the whole college last year.

  74. 74 Geagle said at 7:58 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Wouldn’t a pro style offense, for a qb that only read half the field be considered an oxymoron?

  75. 75 Arby1 said at 12:29 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    “the most pressure he faces is in the bedroom”
    Are we talking bad measurables or trouble staying in the pocket?

  76. 76 Justin Sengstock said at 12:40 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    rofl. This is why I love this blog.

  77. 77 A_T_G said at 3:24 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    I think it is more of an issue with a quick release.

  78. 78 laeagle said at 4:40 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    I know there’s a mussberger joke in there somewhere, but it creeps me out to try to think of it.

  79. 79 austinfan said at 10:55 AM on April 12th, 2013:


    Here’s the complete list of the 23 players to participate in the Eagle’s pro day (local players):

    Matt Brown, RB (Temple)

    Vaughn Carraway, S (Temple) 6-2 191 [4.60 1.62 12 4.37 6.97 31 9’5]

    Greg Castillo, DB (Iowa)

    Brandon Copeland, LB (Penn) 6-3 260 [4.73 1.62 30 4.57 7.29 32 10’2]

    Marcus Green, LB (Temple) 6-2 240 [4.73 1.62 26 4.36 7.03 30 9’5]

    Montel Harris, RB (Temple) 5-8 208 [4.56 1.59 20 4.18 6.95 32 9’5]

    Brandon Jones, CB (Rutgers) 6-0 191 [4.57 1.59 17 4.08 6.76 36 9’10]

    Maurice Jones, DB (Temple) 5-10 191 [4.48 1.56 13 4.25 6.56 36 10’2]

    Robert Lohr, DE (Vanderbilt) – prospect at the “5”

    Scott Lopano, P/K (Penn)

    Dylan Manni, TE (Bloomsburg)

    Matt Marshall, LB (Arkansas)

    Darryl McBride, LB (Hawaii)

    Robert McCabe, LB (Georgetown)

    Brandon McManus, K (Temple)

    Adam Nelson, LS (Villanova)

    Justin Pugh, OG (Syracuse) – 2nd day pick

    Thomas Ryan, WR (Towson)

    Martin Wallace, OT (Temple) 6-6 306 [5.37 1.77 25 4.60 7.57 29 — ]

    Nihja White, WR (Delaware)

    Norman White, WR (Villanova)

    Paul Worrilow, LB (Delaware) 6-2 238 [4.65 1.57 30 3.97 6.50 34 10’4]

    John Youboty, LB (Temple) 6-4 252 [4.72 1.66 24 4.45 7.13 33 9’0]

  80. 80 Ark87 said at 11:44 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    Tommy I think you are misguided by what you think chip finds valuable in QBs.

    We are totally going to draft EJ Manuel and then also acquire Tim Tebow. They’d add value as special teams players, good skills for a back up to have.

    Joking aside, Bill Parcels played a back-up QB in ST’s as a gunner on the Giants I think. Ended up playing some dramatic role, ACViking help me out bud!

  81. 81 Bebin Abraham said at 11:55 AM on April 12th, 2013:

    The only QB who remotely interests me is Zac Dysert, he seems like the type of QB I’d be down with and he most likely won’t be a reach if drafted in the 4th or 5th.

  82. 82 Sb2bowl said at 12:13 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Anyone seen D3Keith? Haven’t seen him on here for quite a while, and I don’t have Twitter, so can’t check in on there. Always liked his input

  83. 83 Ark87 said at 12:18 PM on April 12th, 2013:

    Hey Tommy, I had an Idea. I’ve never read a mock draft past the second round in the history of ever (that’s a lie, I go back an observe the wreckage of mock drafts after the fact. Besides getting an idea for the authors idea of whose better than who and who needs/wants what, trade ups, downs, reaches, etc are going to maul a mock draft beyond being useless as a forecasting tool. Maybe it’s more fun to do one than read one.

    So anyway I was thinking we could do mock Eagles Draft Boards. Basically follow along the draft, crossing players off the board as players are picked. When it comes time fore the Eagles to pick, we use our boards to predict who the Eagles will take. I’d love to see what you would come up with in such a hypothetical exercise.