Misc Draft Talk
Posted: April 20th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 113 Comments »Just some random stuff for today.
* A reader asked what I have against Star Lotulelei. Nothing. Darn good football player and I won’t be mad for a second if the Eagles take him. I do think there is some confusion with Star. People think he is a massive run-stuffer. Not so. Star is 6-3, 311. He has the frame to be 330 and carry it well, but for now he’s got solid size.
As to being a run-stuffer…not really. Star is at his best when he is allowed to attack. He times his get-off well and is able to fire into the backfield and be very disruptive. The Eagles are planning to do some 2-gapping in the base defense. This negates what makes Star special. He can anchor vs the run, but it isn’t a specialty. I think you could draft John Jenkins in the 3rd round and get someone more suited for that role.
There are 2 key points here, though. As I wrote the other day, we don’t know the Eagles long term plans. If they plan to go 4-3 Under and let the 5-tech DE get upfield, then Star would be an excellent fit. Also, he could be ideal as the 1-tech NT in the Nickel and Dime packages. That would let Fletcher Cox be the 3-tech and the Eagles would be very good up the middle.
If the Eagles like Lotulelei a lot and have the right plans on how to use him, I am fine with that pick.
* There is no player I’ll be mad about, even Geno Smith. If Chip Kelly and Howie Roseman believe in the guy, I’m willing to trust them. We went 4-12 last year. We have lots of areas that need help. Adding an OT would make sense. Adding an impact player to the front seven makes sense. If they want to roll the dice on Tavon Austin, I’ll be okay with that. There is no player that will just frustrate the heck out of me.
Maybe the most disappointing pick to me would be Eric Fisher. Why? When you make the simple statement that the Eagles went 4-12 and that gave us the left tackle from Central Michigan…it just sounds depressing. I know Fisher is a good player, but there is nothing compelling about him. I’m not saying taking him would be bad at all. I value OL . Fisher is a very good prospect. I just happen to have him third among the OTs. Mike Mayock has him #1 overall. I value Joeckel because I think he’s the top pass blocker and played better competition and in bigger games. I love Lane Johnson because of his athleticism and upside.
* I posted some random draft notes over at ScoutsNotebook.
* I posted a 2-round mock there as well.
* Some of you have asked for me to talk about more than just the first couple of rounds. I’m still working on draft prospects. I watch tape everyday on some late round guys. Getting stuff written isn’t as easy.
My last 2 PE.com columns had stuff on players to watch from rounds 3 to 7. And here is the link to the one on offensive players.
* Somebody asked me about the Eagles trading with the Falcons. There are rumors they want to move way up and will pay a steep price. They did that a couple of years back to get Julio Jones. There is no Julio Jones type prospect in this draft class, but Atlanta is pushing for the Super Bowl and might covet a CB or DE.
I doubt I would move all the way down to 30. The one thing that would tempt me is if they included their 1st rounder next year. The 2014 draft could have some great targets near the top. Having a pair of 1st rounders could be huge if you wanted to move up for a certain player. Still, dropping way back isn’t ideal and I’d probably pass on that.
* Reportedly the Dolphins are getting closer and closer to trading for LT Branden Albert. That would take away a trade partner.
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Tommy, will you have time to post your big Eagles draft guide/plan, like you did last year? I remember you saying that you were behind on your schedule, but I remember last years post as one of the most impressive things i have read and it really helped me out when we got into the later rounds.
I’ll post something like that. Might not be til Wednesday, though.
Cool, that will definitely be my cheat sheet for the draft.
For anyone interested, i ventured into finding the 2012 Draft piece:
http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-eagles-2/2012-eagles-draft-preview/#disqus_thread
I cant stress enough how impressive I find that post. Fun fact, with the exemption of late riser Dennis Kelly and the pretty surprising OG Brandon Washington who wasnt exactly a Mudd profile, Tommy got all the players in the draft, including Bryce Brown mentioned. He nailed most of the picks as favorites, and even hit on UDFAs BJ Cunningham and Chris Polk. The only guy Tommy didn’t like was Marvin McNutt, but he had him as a 4th rounder.
“I’ll be very happy if the Eagles can come away with a good pass rushing DT, SAM, WR/RS, and slot corner. Aside from that, it’s all gravy.”
A year later, it looks like we got starting caliber players at 3/4 (counting slot corner as a starter). Nick Foles, Bryce Brown, and Vinny Curry make for some pretty good gravy.
I’d be pretty upset if they drafted Leon Sandcastle.
You and Jimmy Bama both.
If Al Davis were still around, there would be a 30% chance he’d take him.
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Friends,
With the NFL draft right around the corner it’s time to remind everyone of all the hard work Tommy and Sam do to bring us this special space. It takes a lot of time and effort to continually create new content, maintain the website, and respond to questions / comments / death threats after a mock draft. With that in mind, I’d like to ask everyone here to take a minute of your own time and consider making a donation in any amount to Iggles Blitz.
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Was happy to donate, just now — mostly out of guilt for subscribing to the New York Times today. Tommy entertains me far more…
Thank you! And yes – NYTimes is often light in the humor dept.
I will gladly contribute. This is my Eagles homeland.
Thanks, Big Mac.
I’ve been a very long time reader of Tommy’s and I am extremely grateful for all of the work he does. I was very happy to contribute. Keep up the incredible work Tommy.
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I’m in. Thanks for all of this, and curse you for my H2H addiction.
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Just donated. Thanks for the reminder, as I tend to forget about donating this was a good reminder. Thanks Tommy for the great content you provide daily.
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I read this first thing everyday. Love the comment section and will donate in a little while.
Thank you!
I just made a donation fro my wife, Its a shame she’s asleep and doesen’t know also has never seen this site. I read everyday first thing. Great stuff. Wayne from FL. I’ll also be donateing very soon
Thanks, Wayne! Mrs. Baloophi is a huge fan, too… I can only imagine.
I’m in Baloophi – I’ve gotta have my IgglesBlitz fix every day!!
Will donate later on
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I’ve been meaning to donate this gets me of my lazy rear. I’m currently mobile. When I get home I’ll donate.
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Tommy – I know Dave Spadaro doesn’t exactly give you the Eagles draft board but you do seem to have some degree of connection with some people in the Eagles. Is the pick of Ansah just based on your opinion or do you have any type of feel on what the Eagles will actually do?
In regards to the Falcons trade, first off, I think you are right that there is no Julio Jones type player in this draft, so it seems very unlikely that they would want to trade all the way up to 4. On top of that, trading all the way down to 30 is pretty extreme. Having said that, I honestly don’t see any way they could even consider calling the Eagles about a trade without their 1st round pick in 2014 not being part of the deal. Even if they offered their entire 2013 draft (minus compensation picks of course), they wouldn’t even come close to equaling the value of moving from 30 to 4. Even their 30th pick plus next year’s first round pick would be a poor value trade for the Eagles, so I would expect significantly more in return. Having said all that, is there anyone in this draft that is worth 2 firsts plus more? I very strongly doubt that, so I don’t see it happening.
Yeah, that’s the question – who is worth all of that for the Falcons? I don’t see anyone that’s going to shore up a hole in 2013 for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. Best guess would be Milliner, or maybe even one of the top 4 tackles (for argument’s sake). If anything, I would think they’d want to trade for a current player (Cole?) rather than a pick…
If you’re Roseman, are you talking to them not only about moving from #4 to #30, but also from 7-12 if we trade back from #4 with another team? I’m sure nobody wants to drop back twice in the first round, but if we walk out with another #1 for 2014 and a bevy of additional picks in rounds 2-4 this year, it may be worth it.
If we did wind up with their pick, we could take Tank Carradine or Cyprien at 30, and then with our pick and whatever 2nd we gain in trade target 2 out of Justin Pugh, Kyle Long, Werner, Eric Reid, D.J. Hayden, and John Jenkins.
Still, it only makes sense if we come out with an additional #1 next year…
The issue with moving from 4 to 7-12, and then from 7-12 to 30 is that since you are giving the Falcon’s an out in terms of using their 2014 first round pick as part of the trade since they won’t have to trade up as far. Further more, I’m not sure if it is a zero sum game by trading back twice. We have discussed at length about the diminished value of the top of the draft. So trading back from 4 to 7-12 would likely return below expected value. Trading that pick again would probably also return below expected value. On the other hand, moving back all in one move, while you would get below expected value, I think you would get better overall value than making the two trades (hopefully that made some sense).
It did – you can extract more from ATL if they’re moving 26 spots vs. 15 or so.
I guess then it becomes a question of how set are you (as in, the Eagles) in getting a #1 next season. It would probably all depend on what you’re looking at for compensation in that first trade.
If we did a double trade and wound up with like 4 3rds this year, I’m not sure it’s worth it…
You’d extract more from ATL if you’re moving back from 4 to 30 than from the middle of the first round to 30. But I am also thinking (don’t know this for sure, but seems to make sense to me), you would extract more overall moving from 4 to 30 than moving from 4 to mid-first round to 30. Because this is not a top heavy draft, there is sort of an added cost in making a trade in the first place, and by trading twice, you pay that cost twice rather than only once.
And to your comment about how set are we in terms of getting a #1 next season, I think as Tommy said, moving back that far would have to involve a 2014 pick in order to be worthwhile. One of the biggest things we are missing on this team is dominant player. It is extremely hard to find those kinds of players, and the further you move back in a draft, the harder they become to find, so unless we are going to make up for it by having an opportunity to draft high next year, I don’t see the value of moving back that far.
Yeah. Ultimately I think it’d be a tough sales job for Dimitroff to make to Arthur Blank and the fans to cough up next year’s #1 for… Dee Milliner? That’s why I think when we hear that they want to move “way up” I assume it means as far as they can go without losing a #1 next year.
I also think it’d be an equally tough sales job for Roseman to make to Lurie and the fans to drop that far and not get a #1 back. We would essentially be taking ourselves out of next year’s top-of-draft sweepstakes (I hope!) in exchange for ammo to pick and choose multiple players in rounds 2 and 3 this year…
I think it depends how desperate teams are to get the player they’re targeting. I’ll agree that there’s nobody worth a Julio Jones type trade, but I could see one of the teams that really needs an OT giving up decent value for #4.
I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to get a second and a third out of Miami to trade down to #12. You could then potentially trade that to SF for #31 and #34 if they are as in love with Tavon as the media would have us believe. With 31, 34 and 35, you’re likely picking players that you had a first round grade on that have fallen for whatever reason.
You may not get the one impact guy that everyone wants at #4 (if he even really exists) but you’ll be able to get a real upgrade for three positions that could use improvement and give Chip a solid foundation to build on.
I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here and I’m not sure whether I’d be happy with those two trades or not (probably depends who we get) but I think you can make an argument that it would be a good move.
Yeah – I was mostly thinking out loud with the double trade down possibility.
Iskar makes a good point about getting more from one team with a giant trade, but yes – if you get a good haul from the first little trade down, you’d have to consider another move down.
Of note (and per T Law) – if Branden Albert goes to Miami (for their 2nd rounder) that would certainly impact the possibility of trading with them. If that happens, I guess we try to get Detroit, Arizona and San Diego in a bidding war (if the board aligns for us).
Oh I hadn’t heard that one about Albert. Miami seem intent on screwing over their future cap this offseason, don’t they.
I can’t see the Chargers making a move to #4; they’ve only got 7 picks this year and a bunch of holes that need to be filled.
Miami getting Albert would certainly reduce the chances of a move out of the top-10, but I think the Bucs might be a dark-horse in a trade-up. They have no CBs and they lost Michael Bennett in FA so they’ve got basically no pass rush. Could see them having eyes for one of Dee, Floyd or Ansah.
Of course Tampa might execute the trade for Revis (which will cost them their first and more, apparently).
Given all of this, what do you think is the best outcome, 1-2-3 for us in terms of tradeability? Fisher or Joeckel available, or both gone so teams panic and want Lane Johnson?
I wonder how teams actually have those three ranked. I’ve said it before, but I really wonder if the OTs in this class are being overrated because there’s not much else to get excited about at the top. I mean, we went for a while with Joeckel being sold as the best OT prospect of the last decade. Then we heard that some teams thought Fisher was better. Now Tommy’s saying that he likes Johnson better than Fisher. I find it hard to believe that there are multiple best-in-a-decade OTs in the same draft and feel like they might not actually be as good as we’re being led to believe.
With that in mind, would teams necessarily value Johnson as a top-5 pick? Maybe if Joeckel and Fisher are both gone, nobody wants to trade up at all because Johnson just isn’t worth it. Maybe KC shock everybody and take someone like Dion or Ziggy. I don’t think I’d actually be tooooo shocked if Dion, Ziggy and Floyd were the first three picks, but that’s probably because nothing would shock me about this draft anymore.
Value inflation, you think? Could very well be… I also like your wildcard thought with Reid and KC. Ansah in particular as a BYU product could be tempting for Andrew.
In terms of the tackles, I don’t know how I’d stack them against previous drafts, but at least the top three have prototypical size and athleticism (i.e. – none of them are RT-only types). What’s really killing us is there isn’t a top QB, RB or WR to entice a starved team to bump up.
To me, the worst trade position would be:
1) Joeckel
2) Jordan
3) Fisher
(which could happen with an Oakland trade or just Raiders being Raiders)
I don’t think anybody wants Floyd or Lotulelei enough to move up; it doesn’t seem anybody wants Geno Smith that badly; and we’re not so desperate that we’d necessarily take Lane Johnson. I think Detroit would sit tight and see what happens.
So basically we’d need a team starved for Dee Milliner or a team lusting after Ansah to pick up the phone.
In this scenario, if we couldn’t find a partner, I think I would draft Ansah… even though I’m not as sold on him as others are here (or I’d damn the torpedoes and take Tavon Austin… who I’d much rather take a few spots later).
Very much agree with all of that.
Incidentally, I think Star is vastly overrated by the media compared to where teams will have him rated. Put it this way, I genuinely think Hankins is the better player at the moment and will develop into a better prospect. Even if you prefer Star, the gap between the two is pretty minimal. I’m regularly seeing mocks that have Star going in the top-5 and it’s not uncommon to see Hankins not even go in the first round (Tommy’s two round mock posted above has him lasting until the third). What I expect is for both players to come off the board in the 15-25 range and the media to consider Star a ‘steal’ and Hankins a ‘reach’ for the next two years before realising they’re pretty much the same player.
Good thoughts.
And I agree – I think both Star and Dee will go lower than most have them going (Tommy’s mock at Scouts Notebook seems a little more realistic) – and then we’ll have to listen to Mayock and others drool over what a steal they were.
And the falling Star (ha!) is what will mess up a lot of the mocks we’ve seen in the media. I was saying in another thread that Daniel Jeremiah’s obsession with giving us Geno Smith was more a product of squeezing players into his mold than a reflection of how things might actually go, and I think he (and others) have been very guilty of just absentmindedly plugging in players in the top 5. To your point earlier, this could be a crazy draft, starting with pick #1…
mayock has Hayden jumping Millner on his big board…I have Millnerrated as like the 5th corner…must be nice to have the Alabama brand backing you…and you get “experts” that say, the next in a long line of GREAT Alabama corners..LOL who are these great, pro bowl, all pro Alabama corners? Lol
haha, ‘Andrew.’ I agree with you mostly. Would prefer Ansah to be the pick in that scenario. I’m completely sold by his highlights, don’t care if he looks lost sometimes or whatever reasons people ding him. Why don’t you think anybody wants Floyd, Geno, or Lane Johnson enough to move up to 4 (I agree on Star)? I think anything could be in play when we are on the clock, no matter what the preceding picks are.
I just don’t think there’s enough market interest in those guys to necessitate a move up. Granted we might get lucky with a few irrational teams (and as you say, many things can happen when you’re on the clock), but I don’t think any of those players are such “can’t miss” guys that a team would pull the trigger. The best hope in this scenario – in my opinion – is that Arizona gets anxious for a tackle.
Let me ask you: who do you think would move up for any of these guys? I don’t get the sense that any team really sees Geno as “the future”, and I think Floyd and Lane Johnson at #4 aren’t enough value for a team to move up and get (or at least with compensation that we would agree with). If we were sitting at #10 and all three players were available maybe things would be different, but I just don’t see it for these players this year at our spot… at least, if things go:
1) Joeckel
2) Jordan
3) Fisher
I’m not familiar with other teams’ needs enough to venture any specifics. I agree with the best bet being a team panicking over Lane Johnson, since that seems like the biggest drop off (that is, from Geno to any of the other quarterbacks isn’t a consensus drop off), and Arizona seems like a good candidate to make that mistake given the Kolb trade. Other than the OTs, I’m probably basing this on the fact that I’ve seen Floyd mocked as high as 2, and I feel like there have to be some teams that view him as “can’t miss.” It’s probably important to base that on the needs of teams 5-15, but I’m not that informed. Would you agree there’s a similar drop off from Star and Floyd to other DTs (Hankins, as deg0ey says) as from Johnson & Fisher to other OTs (even though it’s a less valuable position). I think the big picture is, I think you are basing your opinion heavily on player value, and I think a team drafting for need will pull the trigger (but sadly have no examples of teams that would draft for need this year). As you say, it all depends on the compensation, and if it’s not there, I’ll be ecstatic with a bunch of different options picking straight up at 4.
In terms of “drop-off” comparison between Joeckel/Fisher/Johnson and the rest of the OTs versus Star and Floyd and the rest of the DTs, I think the consensus isn’t as strong among the DTs. For example, a lot of people have Sheldon Richardson rated higher than Lotulelei, and Sylvester Williams up there as well (not to mention’s deg0ey’s point about Hankins over Star, etc.). Further confusing things are “technique” and specific needs for different teams… I don’t see a DT that people are banging the table for.
As far as relative OT strength, deg0ey also posited that this year might be an inflated year because other positions are relatively weak at the top of the draft. He could very well be correct, but I’m skeptical simply because I don’t recall legitimate arguments being made about “who is the top tackle” in years past (at least among three candidates). Last year, for example, it was Kalil and then everyone else. Two years ago it was Tyron Smith and then Solder, Castonzo and Carimi sort of neck and neck after… and they had questions among them (right tackle versus left tackle, technique, footwork, etc.), the year before it was Trent Williams and Russell Okung, then everyone else. I’m sure people will recall things differently (and undoubtedly more accurately), but at least from a “first glance” perspective, we’re in a scenario now where we’ve got 3 OTs that could go in the top ten. For what it’s worth, at least Fisher and Joeckel have been compared to Jake Long – the last OT taken #1 overall.
The DTs (on the other hand) don’t seem to be as talented as – say – the Suh and McCoy year, or even stack up to Fletcher Cox from last season, or Nick Fairley (who was far more disruptive in college than any of these guys) who went #13 in 2011.
All of this is to say that I don’t see a team falling in love with a DT to the extent that they MUST have him. I don’t see any of these guys having immediate impact, which I’d think would be a prerequisite to move up so high in the draft.
I DO think with Lane Johnson, he has such rare athletic ability at his size that a team might see him as a MUST have guy, but will they enough to want to move up? I’d hope so…
Nice analysis. Makes sense what you are saying about the DTs. I’d have to side with you as far as OTs: my impression is that the OTs in this draft would be competitive any year. I think there are some problems with the assumptions in the following post, but eaglesrewind argues that these 3 OTs are very competitive with recent drafts (http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/04/15/setting-expectations-for-the-draft/). And, based on the fact that I truly believe there’s a 20% chance we’d draft Geno Smith if he were there at 4 (even if I personally wouldn’t), and we are a relatively smart team, there are likely to be some qb-needy teams that like him at 4. As I said, I don’t think any set of top 3 picks would keep us from moving back (i.e. eliminate all suitors), just change the demand and our compensation (which I think is your whole point anyway).
I do think Johnson would be potential bait in a trade in your scenario. There are other tackles to be had in this draft, but after Johnson, the drop off is significant. In addition to that, there are a ton of teams who could use an LT. Detroit could be a team that would take Johnson. Arizona certainly would not let Johnson get past them I would think. Those two teams alone could create a small bidding war, and there are a few more teams past them that could want to jump ahead of Detroit to get Johnson.
I agree the scenario you setup is not ideal in terms of potential trades, but honestly, I think there are 4 players at the top of the draft that could likely create potential trade scenarios (Joeckel, Fisher, Jordan, and Johnson). There may be others as well depending on if a team covets a certain players, but those 4 seem like the most likely. Since we are picking 4th, obviously at least one of them should get to our pick, so unless we truly like that player (or have another guy in mind at 4 that we dont want to risk missing out on), I think we should be able to create a trade. The question at that point would become how much value can we get in a trade.
Excellent point. Yeah – I was trying to create the worst possible scenario (you know, as an Eagles fan).
From a trade value standpoint, the best possible scenario (I think) would be:
1) Joeckel
2) Smith
3) Floyd
I think this is highly unlikely, but then we would have our pick of Jordan or Fisher. I’d be VERY tempted to simply take Jordan, so if I were holding the phone, it would take a real strong offer to move back. In an ideal world, you’d trade back with Detroit (so they could take Fisher) and still get Jordan…
I could see that trade. The other question if you create a bidding war between Detroit and Arizona is who would you be looking for at #7. Let’s use Tommy’s mock as a starting point:
1 – Fisher
2 – Jordan
3 – Floyd
At that point, you accept a trade to Arizona at #7 in order that they can move up for an OT. In that scenario, I’d expect the next two picks to be pretty self explanatory:
4 – Joeckel
5 – Johnson (these could go either way around depending on who Arizona prefer)
6 – Ansah (Browns are converting to a 3-4 but only have one DE)
So all of the popular names are gone and it’s still a bit early to take the guards. I think at that point it’d be Mingo or Austin. I’d actually be pretty happy with a move back to #7, because there are still enough guys worth picking regardless of who the teams above go for.
I think the OT’s are being Grossly over rated. The only one I see a case for being a top5 player is Lane Johnson, because he basically has no ceiling…Joekel would be like the 8th pick in a normal draft, and Fisher would go between 15-20. I don’t care what scheme you run, pass blocking is what makes you a top 10 lineman, so although I think Joekel is limited athletically, he is very fundamentally sound ( the best thing about Joekel is that his Dad is the JOE JACKSON of the offensive line lol)…Fisher is a very polished run blocker, and is more gifted athletically than Joekel, but he isn’t Khalil, and I don’t even think its close….I don’t care how good, and how polished you are coming out of college(you need to have significant room for growth, and I don’t see much untapped potential in Joekel.lHe has made the most out of his ability, and he is close to maxed out IMO)….
I also think, when you weigh what we have on our roster, what we need…I don’t even see how Anyone can take one of these Olineman, passing up on a defender, when Thier are so many solid prospects in round two that can play both RG/RT….A guy like Kyle Long, who many say is a round 1 talent, that will be in round 2 because of substance abuse backage..Justin Pugh(a heckuva player, who never realized he had short arms lol)…Brennan Williams in rounds 3-5…..
Also some interesting nuggets about some prospects:
1) Warmack has a problem, sweats profusely, gets tired late I. Games, needs I.Vs, has to hydrate better (doesn’t sound like a good idea in an uptempo Offense, not to mention he is a power blocker, and jonathon Cooper is one of the best there’s I have ever seen)
2) A few scouts are said to have SERIOUS RED FLAGS about Terron Armsted’s back
3)A scout was quoted saying…”DJ Fluket, great kid, but I wouldn’t want him doing my taxes” …question his intelligence, and being able to learn a play book
this could all be misinformation, but figured it was with passing alng
I agree Star isn’t massive and needs to get better at seeing the RBs, that part I do agree with but he would help your run defense a lot. Finishing is one of his issues but Star gets off the LOS and pushes the OL back consistently and gets penetration. With Cox, Star and him on running downs upfront, that is formidable IMHO so he is a good run defender (stuffer may not be a great term). If he was a 3 down NT in future I would expect he would be coached and play differently like you said or impied.
He is bigger than Floyd or a Jean Francois type. This allows the inside linebackers to come up and keeps the linemen off. I get the feeling he is not quite the best pick at 4 though between other values and his possible medical question (positive reports on him but there is still some concern that could be one of the differences between him going 5 or 10-15).
Will say they may love him because they think he can be versatile and give them some flexibility up front.
Jenkins would be fine in the 3rd round but you can’t rely on that necessarily although they could just as easily approach the DL in a number of ways.
Certainly Ansah is an option to me. As is Lane Johnson, Joeckel (according to your mock) if Jordan and Fisher are gone instead of Star.
In the case of the 5-tech playing 1-gap technique, wouldn’t Sharrif Floyd be an excellent fit?
I can’t remember for sure all the places he lined up at Florida, but I think he spent some time in an alignment close to 5 when he was playing as a DE in their 4-3.
Floyd is a terrible fit for the 5 tech, he got t-rex like arms. Floyd is best suited to play 3 tech and thats it (just my opinion tho).
I also don’t like him 2gapping… There are Dlineman who can shoot gaps and take on blockers….I think if we invest in lineman, they need to be able to do both….Then again, we can get some 2gap lineman in rounds 3-5
Short arms hurt Floyd. Must be able to engage blockers and keep them off his body as he reads the play. Short arms would be a major concern.
Would you say that’s because offensive tackles are longer in general than guards?
@ Tommy Lawlor, thank you for being up to the task of answering the question i left you on eaglesblog.net. I just felt like you were showering us with Dion or bust talk and it was becoming nauseating. I do not feel like you are as secure in the pick of a player like Geno as you would say but i feel a guy like Star could be our Suh. he could anchor our D. since Reggie left, since Dawk left, since the 02 D left our D has needed a backbone. DIon for all his hoopla is IMO still raw. With Star i feel he is polished and ready to go under the lights of MNF and be a FORCE. Dion could burst onto the scene but i honestly feel you can find someone who is a project with similar measurables and burst that can be had in the 2nd round or 3rd. Star is young and polished. you say you do not want a player like Fischer who is the arguable best LT in the draft. the truth is our O has an identity with D Jax and McCoy and Celek so its just a matter of finding someone to get them the ball. i truly believe Geno could be that guy. You on the other hand have questions about his ability to come off his reads. everyone here will opine about how he is a big 12 player. Hogwash…geno smith was and is a product of the big motha fuckin East! he did not regress due to lack of effort, he regressed due to the sudden jump in competition on their schedule. what was good enough to be 10-2 or 9-3 in the big east very easily falls short of the worst big 12 teams. not every player will be an RG3 out of the box.
if we sat at pick 4 i want either Star or Geno. If we trade back i want Warmack simply because he is so good its almost criminal and you would be reuniting him with his Oline coach. our LB are not set but they are on paper. from graham to cole to barwin to kendricks, there is an idea there. same cannot be said for our D line.
Geno? Hahahahahahahaha
You take an interesting view here. Star won’t be a top-10 pick; he’s just not good enough. Geno might be a top-10 pick because teams reach for QBs, but he’s not exactly a stud either. If we traded back I might have interest in Warmack, but only on the assumption we’ve traded out of the top-10.
Much rather trade back in rd one for Cooper, if we are going to adress the oline
I just saw the last 2 Spadaro´s tweet talking about Eagles trading back!!
Dave Spadaro @davespadaro9 min
I think there are quite a few teams wanting to move up .. #Options .. RT @davidrhode: likelihood #eagles will trade down? >50%?
Dave Spadaro @davespadaro3 min
Great opportunity in this draft ..RT @d_wbee: @davidrhode but can you trust this team making the right decision if they trade down? I don’t!
Maybe Eagles already have some kind of proposoal to trade back in hands or in talks?? Or they want people to believe they do!! hehe We will find it Thrusday!! #excited
Chip said in an interview a few weeks back that he wanted guys who were really and truly passionate about the game, not guys who looked at it like a job or a paycheck. Guys who were in at 9 and out at 5 (Nnamdi, Nnamdi, Nnamdi).
Star quit football after his first year at Snow Junior College citing a lack of passion for the game.
Maybe he’s changed since then. But it makes me wonder if, for this reason alone, he’s not particularly high on the Eagles draft board at this point.
Don’t know if it is an issue, it sounds like he came back because he missed it…
“He reminds me of Haloti Ngata. He’s in that same category,” says Oregon head coach Chip Kelly. “He’s just a disruptive force.”
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=635&sid=21407138&s_cid=rss-635
Well, yeah. He came back. But whose to say if it’s “for love of the game” or because he realized he had talent and might be missing out on a big, fat paycheck? He’s certainly not going to tell anyone that.
And yeah, Chip says nice things about everyone. He’s not gonna say, “Oh, he’s terrible we want nothing to do with him”.
We’ll see on draft day what they think. I was just pointing out that it’s got to be a red flag for a guy to quit and then come back. Even if he came back because he realized he loved the game, it speaks to a portion of the guys character that he quit in the first place.
You were pointing out it’s got to be a red flag. I am pointing out it may not be a red flag.
Eagles have spent a good amount time with him, that is up to them. Some say the Eagles like him a lot. We will find out on draft day who is drafted and if they pass on him. Doesn’t mean it’s because he doesn’t have passion for the game.
As far as making claims about his character, the other side of the coin is he turned around his academics and became a top prospect and worked hard. Sure there may have been a motivation for money, nothing strange about that for a young person.
As I said in another post, I think there may be some other players they value more.
…
I literally said:
“Maybe he’s changed since then. But it makes me wonder if, for this reason alone, he’s not particularly high on the Eagles draft board at this point.”
I didn’t say anything close to “it’s got to be a red flag”. If you read it that way, then that’s your mistake.
you stoned? you said:
I was just pointing out that it’s got to be a red flag for a guy to quit and then come back.
He was 18 when he went to snow JC because he wasn’t eligible for BYU. He quit after a year, got his academics back together and worked hard to get himself to where he is. We don’t know what went into it. Anyway I think the fact you said you never said something you did puts this to rest.
No, I’m not stoned.
I did make a mistake though. My apologies.
I think that his quitting is something that should be kept in mind when it comes to whether or not to draft him. I obviously can’t speak to his character, nor would I.
That’s a better way to put it.
The link I provided above has an interview with Star and his return to Utah last year and what he thinks about the team and the upcoming year in 2012 for anyone that wants to listen to it.
Thanks for sharing RC
wait…people actually blog when they arent stoned? lol
Floyd said in a interview that first game he watched was in 2007.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/25/for-a-guy-whos-good-at-it-sharrif-floyd-doesnt-watch-football/
I dont like players who lacks passion for the game too. Because who knows what will happen after he wins his first paycheck.
Passion for the game as a player is completely different than passion for the game as a fan.
I guess Chip wouldn’t want a McNabb in his prime then?
For Patrick, if he’s reading.
Everyone else has seen this quote from Roseman before.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/191918091.html
You cannot believe anything an NFL teams says when it comes to their roster, especially when it comes out around draft time. Graham might very well be part of the most important defensive players that we build around, and but I can guarantee you that Howie would not stand up at the Combine and say: “Graham, what a bum, we have zero passrushers we like and thats why we signed Barwin”. Everyone would have some insight on our draft strategy and Grahams trade value would drop like crazy.
If i remember correctly, the Eagles also strongly denied trading Kolb and Nnamdi Asomugha was a part of the roster when we didnt release him as soon as people thought. NFL teams lie, and very few teams do it better than Philly.
I love this logic. When there’s evidence, say it’s unreliable. Thus wild speculation by fans becomes just as valuable, if not more in their delusional eyes.
Obviously, this is just my layman’s opinion, but I’m much more bullish on Star or an OT. I just happen to think that if the Eagles can have a stellar 3 man line in the 3-4 it really opens up options for the draft and coverage. Additionally, I think Star may be an option that is still viable with a few back steps in the draft.
OTOH
The top OTs are not going to be there if the Eagles move back. However as bullish I am on Kelly and Kopa as potential tackles, the ones we know about are on the wrong side of 30 and coming off injury.
Wrong side of 30 DOES NOT apply to Olineman
Yes, it does. However, the drop off is not usually as bad for OL as it is for a RB or DE. Wrong side of 30 is still the wrong side of 30.
Let’s agree to disagree
Chip Kelly stated… ” I would like to take a risk on a placekicker at the fourth pick.”
Everyone is missing the obvious. Not only will we see dual H-back sets, we will see the birth of dual placekicker sets.
The read-option with kickers. Just crazy enough that it might work.
youtu.be/8cILlBazwV8
If CK’s game-day analytics fall into place, he’s unpredictable enuf to try it at some point(s). Check out Phil Goodman’s YouTube entry below.
Even if the Falcons were to hypothetically include their first round pick for 2014, you would have to think it would be in the 28-32 range, which would essentially be a high-2nd round pick at that point. So I think they’d have to give up a lot more to move up all the way to #4.
But combined with our own 2014 1st rounder, it can be used to trade up to get a top level QB.
People keep saying this, but in reality, it might not be a possibility.
Think about it- if the Rams didn’t have Sam Bradford, do you think they trade out of the spot to draft RG3? I don’t, and the drop off after the top 2 was pretty significant.
So, what happens next year if there are 3 really good QB’s, but there are three teams drafting at the top that really need a QB? I don’t think that they will risk their future for an additional 1st rounder or two.
the team that drafts and starts Geno as a rookie will pick In the top 5 next year, and won’t be in the position to draft another QB…THAT’S WHO WE TRADE WITH! plus I’m sure a team will find Clowney to good to pass up
That’s all speculation. Would a team use a top 5 pick on Geno this year, just to draft another QB next year in top 5? That’s highly unlikely.
And remember, QB is more important that DL. Even if it is Clowney.
huh? I said the team that drafts Geno this year, will probably suck next year, be picking in the top 5, and not be in a position to draft another QB….so we mortgage our draft, give them all our pics and go get a QB
I see a big gaping hole on the DL that Star can fill. Maybe Floyd can as well. I also see big value in one of the OT’s. What I’d really like is to see us sign Winston/Clabo/Smith before the draft and focus on the DL with #4.
If we draft Geno our QB’s will have a combined IQ of about 110…FAIL
I think Nick is at least 100, so……….
What does IQ have anything to do with football?
Like many, I agree, I don’t see anyone the Falcons would want that badly to make such a trade. If it was true, however, the only way I can see making that trade on the Eagles side is if they’re getting multiple picks this year along with a 1st next year, such that the picks this year are enough to trade back up if they saw a player they like sliding.
A prospects we rarely talk about, but I think is getting consideration at 4 is Sheldon Rich….Would love to get a comparison between the 3 Dt’s, Star, Sheldon, and Sharrif
None of the 3 are suited to play 2-gap
Maybe not Today, but I think Sheldon and Star can grow into it….Im not really sure how you can say that I guy that was double and tripple teamed every play at Utah, and still turned into a top prospect, cant two gap….and if you think Fletcher Cox can two gap, than why cant Sheldon grow into it??….Floyd, I understand
I think history should be our guide:
There has never been a Barkavious that has become a solid NFLer, so he is out.
Star? After intense research, I found some guy named Bart Starr. Now there is the risk since the position of the name is switched, but this Star is on the other side of the ball, so it makes sense.
Dion, though, has pedigree. I found some obscure defender named Deion Sanders, whom I believe may be related tithe prospect Leon Sandcastle, who carved out a pretty solid career. Since this Dion spells his name with one less letter, he should be a bit quicker. That is our man.
the name Jordan certainly doesn’t hurt either
Well Akeem is/was a pretty good STer, you’re right!!
Ha touché
I would like to graciously thank the Kansas city Fat man, for taking Akeem off our hands. the only LB I ever hated more was Dahani Jones (he does not deserve to have his name spelled right)….I used to get these cravings to punch him right in his bow tie
Interesting. I’ve always thought very highly of Jordan and Dahni. Both were often played out of place and still preformed
dahani, I honestly DESPISE…exaggerating with Jordan. I do think his time had run its course. I would like to THI k we can draft a young player that gives us what Akeem did on ST, who has the potential to possibly grow into a starter someday….
Question…How many players do you think it’s suitable for a team to carry, that are just good ST veterans with no shot at ever growing into more? Just curious
THen again, I liked Shawn Barber, and people hated him
is Floyd the LOCK to go #3 as everyone seems to think?
tommy, can you explain why the top of the second round is all jumbled up? for example, we have the 4th pick in round one but the 3rd pick in round 2.
Because we got the same record as Oakland and Detroit but our SOS was harder than Oakland better softer than Detroit, so Oakland picks before us in round 1, but in other rounds we rotate. Same with Chiefs and Jags, they also rotate.
Exactly. Good job, Anders.
Re: A_T_G on NFL Success and Names
1967 1st Rd: Eagles draft Arkansas HB Harry Jones.
Career: 44 carries 85 yards (’67 – ’70).
_______________
A_T_G, you’re very much on the right path . . . .
Tom…what do you know about Terron Armsteds back problems? And Flukers, learning problems?