Other LBs

Posted: April 21st, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 57 Comments »

I’ve written a ton about Dion Jordan. He’s my choice for #4 if he’s on the board, but that may not happen. The other night I discussed the possibility of using that pick on Barkevious Mingo. Most of you hated that idea. I have mixed feelings, but Mingo at his best is too good for me to not consider him. Those are the only 2 OLBs in play early.  It is possible for the Eagles to look at Ziggy Ansah as a LB, but I want to save that discussion for Monday. I’m planning to do a write-up on him.

In rounds 2-7 there are some interesting prospects available, but none that I’m excited about. Let’s discuss some of the options.

Jarvis Jones – 6-2, 245 – Georgia – Jones is too small for the Eagles to consider him at 4 and frankly I’m not sure Chip Kelly will have any interest at all. Jones is slow (4.90). He has 33-inch arms, which is average. He had great production in college and that can’t be ignored, but his skill set doesn’t make you think he’s likely to thrive in the NFL. Good 3-4 OLBs are normally at least 6-2, 255. If you add 10 pounds, how much slower will that make Jones?  And he isn’t athletic enough to be a Von Miller type that thrives as a 4-3 LB and situational rusher. Someone will take a chance on Jones. How early is the question? If he really slides, you wonder would the Eagles consider him at 35 or is he off the board altogether. Remember that NFL teams put about 125 players on their draft board. They are choosy.

Damontre Moore – 6-4, 250 – Texas A&M – Slow and weak. But had 12.5 sacks this year. Has a great motor. Good frame. Ran poorly and has admitted that he didn’t do the lifting he needed to at TAMU. Probably goes in the 2nd round. Not sure if the Eagles will like him or not. Tough player to get a read on.

Jamie Collins – 6-3, 249 – Southern Miss – The opposite of Moore. Collins is a dynamic, explosive athlete. Had good, but not great production. The problem with him is that he didn’t play with any sense of urgency. Collins isn’t lazy or anything close to that, but he was USM’s best player and you need those guys to set the tone for the team. He didn’t do that. If properly motivated, could be an excellent fit. Could be a 3rd round target.

Corey Lemonier – 6-3, 255 – Auburn – Junior who had a strong year in 2011 and down season in 2012.  Has serious potential. Powerful upper body. Long arms. Good athlete. Not a guy you want in coverage, but has pass rush skills. 3rd round target.

Michael Buchanan – 6-5, 255 – Illinois – Ideal size. Had a very good workout at the Combine. Another guy who played well, but struggled in 2012. There was a new staff and scheme at Illinois and that affected Buchanan. Feels like what Chip Kelly wants in terms of size and athleticism. Character stuff and intangibles will be huge. If the Eagles love him, could be a 3rd round target, but I tend to think of him more as a 4th rounder.

Chase Thomas – 6-3, 244 – Stanford – I question if Thomas will be of interest at all. Lacks ideal size and has short arms. Slow. Kelly faced him 4 times at Oregon and may like him because of that, but Thomas doesn’t fit the Kelly mold at all. He is a tough, disciplined player. If only he was bigger or faster.

Mike Catapano – 6-3, 271 – Princeton – Small school DE has NFL talent. Good pass rusher. Solid athlete. The Eagles could consider him for 5-tech DE, but after watching tape I think he’d be best at OLB.  5th rounder.

– Late round picks –

Ty Powell – 6-2, 249 – Harding – DE who played LB at the Senior Bowl. Natural pass rusher. A bit small for Kelly, but could be good value late.

David Bass – 6-4, 262 – Played in the Shrine Game and showed NFL potential. Solid athlete.

Travis Long – 6-4, 245 – Washington State – Chip Kelly will know him from the Pac-12 days. Long made plays against Oregon for 3 years. Late pick or UDFA.

Tourek Williams – 6-3, 260 – FIU – Guy who stood out to me when studying Jonathan Cyprien. I’m not completely convinced he can make the switch to 3-4 LB, but was a good college player. Has a good motor and pass rush skills.

Stansley Maponga – 6-2, 256 – TCU – Short, but thick, powerful player. Ran slow in workouts. Numbers fell off in 2012.

Lerentee McCray – 6-2, 250 – Florida – The flasher. Put on UF tape to study Shariff Floyd and you’ll see #34 flash big time ability here and there. The problem is that he finished his career with 65 tackles, 4.5 sacks, and 3 FFs. Why didn’t he play more?  Why didn’t he produce more? Has NFL ability. Could be worth a late pick, but you must answer those questions. Howie Roseman is a Florida grad so I’m sure he knows all about McCray.

Armonty Bryant – 6-4, 263 – East Central OK – Played well at Texas vs The Nation all star game. Okay athlete. Good frame.

Tristan Okpalaugo – 6-6, 250 est. – Fresno State – The poor man’s Dion Jordan.  Great frame. Long arms. Put on the Oregon game from this year and you’ll think you’re looking at a mid-round player. Had 9 total tackles.  4 TFLs (1 of them a sack). Played the option well. Some times will play over the slot. Unlike Jordan, isn’t natural in space or coverage. Upright in his backpedal and doesn’t transition well when breaking forward. When he’s allowed to just attack off the edge, can be impressive. So tall/long that he eats up ground in a hurry. Tony Pauline reported that he didn’t look good at his Pro Day, but I’ve not seen workout numbers.

Paul Hazel – 6-5, 220 – Western Michigan – Skinny, but has a good frame. Late pick or UDFA of interest. Productive pass rusher at WMU. Finished his career with 16.5 sacks and 10 FFs. I need to study him more before saying anything concrete. Interesting project.

* Tank Carradine and Quanterus Smith are both players coming off torn ACLs that could be of interest.  Walter Stewart has some spinal issues that could make him a late pick or undraftable. All 3 players are very talented.

* Bjoenr Werner, Alex Okafor, Lavar Edwards, and Cornelius Washington are DEs to me. Werner and Washington are limited to the 4-3. Okafor and Edwards could bulk up and play the 3-4.  There are others who think these guys could play 3-4 OLB. I don’t know what the Eagles think.

* * * * *

Yesterday I mentioned that I was going to be happy no matter what the Eagles did at #4. A few of you wondered about this.

My point is that while I may not love the player the Eagles take, we’re picking at #4. There are no guys that the team must avoid. All of the prospects there are talented.

  • Jordan, Mingo – gifted LBs.
  • Joeckel, Fisher, Johnson – stud OTs
  • Ansah – freak (in a good way)
  • Floyd, Lotulelei – outstanding DL
  • Milliner – big, fast CB
  • Geno – best QB in the draft and he’s got the athletic ability to fit Kelly’s offense
  • Austin – maybe the most interesting player in the entire draft…explosive

How can I get upset with those players? Each of them has the ability to help the Eagles.

I prefer not to take Geno, but as I’ve said time after time…if Chip Kelly loves him and thinks Smith can be a star QB, go get him.  I’m not giving the Eagles a free pass to do whatever and I’ll blindly support the move. If they take EJ Manuel or Ryan Nassibe at pick #4, I’ll rip them. If they take DJ Fluker, I’ll rip them. If they take Tyler Eifert, I’ll rip them. Those players would be bad value at #4.  The guys listed above are all worth pick #4.  I know we question that with Austin, but he’s such a freak that I think you can make the argument.

I think too many fans let the draft get personal. One thing I pride myself in is being able to make the case for any draft prospect. It is easy to rip guys, but one thing the Baltimore Ravens teach their scouts is to go find players. Let me know what the guy can do well so that we can decide if that is something we value. Anyone can look at a set of stats, Hts/Wts, or workout numbers and say “yes” or “no”. The trick to scouting is being able to identify skills/talent and being able to explain what there is to like about a player.

In the end, I may not like a player, but I will be able to make the case for him, not just against him. This isn’t personal. This is about evaluating players. You may not want the Eagles to draft Jordan or Mingo or Geno or Johnson or Floyd, but do keep in mind that these guys are all incredibly talented young men that have the potential to be NFL starters for the next decade. There are no bums in this group.

_


  • D3Center

    Tommy- You said you would be fine with Millner at 4 but from what I’ve heard recently he may be a guy who isn’t the top CB on may teams boards and that other guys (Hayden and Rhodes) may be the top corners on many boards. Would you consider another corner too much of a reach at 4 if the Eagles had them rated as the best guy there?

    • TommyLawlor

      I would prefer not to take a CB at #4, but I’m assuming if the Eagles took him it would be because they liked him so much. If Milliner’s shoulder is a concern or he’s got character issues and teams have downgraded him, then he’ll slide. I would be shocked if any other CB got consideration at #4.

      To take a CB in the Top 10, he needs to be compelling. I think Milliner is the only guy who could possibly have a grade that high. That doesn’t mean he’ll be the #1 CB, but the other guys don’t have the right combination of size, speed, and skills to be worth a Top 10 pick. Milliner has that potential, but based on recent reports teams are downgrading him for one reason or another.

      • Geagle

        Is it that he is starting to be downgraded, or is it a case of the media over rating him from the start? interesting that Mayock put Hayden ahead of him…..I think both Vaccaro, and Millner are in jeopardy of not being the first players off the board at thier position….I think the 20’s will be fascinating because there are a handful of successful teams that all have similar needs, so we could see runs on certain positions like Safety,Corner,ILB,Dline…or a late round QB run with guys like Nassib and Manuel….so curious to see where Geno goes..has mocking round 1 ever been this difficult?..So many guys like Hankins, who some have at 15, others have falling to round 3. can’t wait to find out how these NFL teams value these players

        Tom, I heard Jaws say that Matt Scott had a bad workout for us..know anything about it? because that’s basically all he said

  • ICDogg

    Do you think that the Eagles have already determined what base defense they plan to use this season, or will that be informed in part by whom they draft?

    • TommyLawlor

      I think we’re going to be 3-4 as the base. Keep things simple and then mix in hybrid stuff as the year goes on.

  • T_S_O_P

    As a UDFA type, Willie Jefferson of Stephen F Austin. 6’6″ 235lb. Broke his own college record for sacks in one game.

    • TommyLawlor

      I’ll check him out.

  • Kirk Belmont

    I was reading about Russell Wilson today and the year he had. They said he was under-drafted because people said he was too short. Is that the only reason? I think I recall you writing that it was more than just his height that made you not like him that much, saying he was erratic from the pocket, didn’t process information fast enough while in the pocket, and an erratic thrower from inside the pocket. You said he had potential to be an NFL starter but that it was unlikely.
    Why was it that he did so well. Was it because Pete Caroll let him do what he was best at and less of what he was not as good at-throwing from the pocket?

    • Iskar36

      Here are two posts from Tommy about Wilson:

      http://2011.scoutsnotebook.com/russell-wilson/

      http://scoutsnotebook.com/2012/03/31/qb-russell-wilson/

      Might help answer at least the first part of your question.

    • TommyLawlor

      Russell wasn’t just short. That’s the main reason he fell to the 3rd. If he was 6-1, might have gone in the early 2nd.

      I’m still not completely sold on Wilson. He thrived in a run-heavy offense that limited his passing attempts and let him play in favorable situations. I think Russell showed a ton of potential as a rookie, but he only threw more than 30 passes 3 times all year. Foles did that in 6 of 7 games. Think about the pressure that RW was under as compared to Nick. Russell was handing the ball off and executing on pass plays while Nick had the whole offense on his back. Huge difference.

      RW might light it up this year and if he does, I’ll totally buy in. I just need to see him get in some uncomfortable situations where he has to carry the team.

      • shah8

        Wilson was *much* more effective than Foles as a passer, even in his very first game against the Cardinals. More tough throws made, *finds open people fast*, better deep passes. Quality>>Quantity, so long as there is enough of it. Way too few of the completions Foles accumulated were smooth affairs that took a play from the defense.

    • T_S_O_P

      I can’t remember where I read this (maybe Jimmy’s site or a link there within), but between Luck, Griffin, Tannehill and Wilson, Russell stats were the most skewed in terms of where he was throwing. for example, Griffin and Luck’s attempts to the left, the right and over the middle were of a similar %, whereas Wilson’s strongly favoured the right. 63% as I recall.

  • tball_man

    Amen. Mr lawlor.

  • Arby1

    The Eagles met with Buchanan a couple of times at the Senior Bowl. Tommy, do you remember if he stood out in practice or the game?

    • TommyLawlor

      I don’t think so. Need to go back and check my notes.

  • austinfan

    Some other names:

    Sio Moore – Connecticut, only 6’1, 245 lbs but 33 1/2 arms
    last two years, 24 starts, 100-58, 14 sacks, 15.5 stuffs, 3 Int, 20 PD
    [4.64 1.62 29 4.31 7.49 38 10'7]

    Trevardo Williams, 6-1 241, 32 1/4″
    last two years, 24 starts, 47-38, 24 sacks, 4.5 stuffs, 2 PD
    [4.58 1.61 30 4.36 7.24 38 10'4]

    Troy Davis, UCF, 6-2 251
    2012: 14g, 32-39, 8 sacks, 3.5 stuffs, 4 PD, 3 forced fumbles
    [4.65 1.58 24 4.14 7.03 31 9'9]

    Paipai, Falemalu – Hawaii, 6-2 245
    25 starts, 63-43, 9.5 sacks, 6.5 stuffs, 2 PD, 1 forced fumble
    [4.65 1.63 24 4.33 6.87 37 10’2]

    Josh Martin, Columbia,6-2 247
    113 tackles, 13.5 sacks last 20 games
    [4.64 1.59 30 4.51 7.08 32 10’4]

    Caleb Schreibeis, Montana State, 6-2 255
    12.5 sacks in 11 games

    Brandon Thurmond, Arkansas Pine Bluff, 6-0 255
    63 tackles, 16.5 sacks, 8.5 stuffs
    [4.66 1.62 20 4.47 7.26 32 8'11]

    Look for
    Brandon Copeland, Penn 6-3 260, [4.76 1.62 30 4.49 7.29 32 10’2]
    John Youboty, Temple, 6-4 252, [4.72 1.66 24 4.45 7.13 33 9’0]
    as potential UDFAs

    • Geagle

      Between your list and Tom’s…no love for Jelanie Jenkns?

      Still don’t think Jarvis gets passed the steelers. they will turn anyone into a stud LB…but If he gets to 35, I feel like you almost have to take him..

      If We don’t get Jordan or Mingo, I would want:
      1. Jamie Collins
      2)Micheal Buchannon (I heard we liked him)
      3)Sio
      4)Jelanie
      5)Travardo

      Still can’t figure out if guys like Ogletree and Kaseem green will be used inside or outside

  • RC5000

    Revis getting traded to Tampa for multiple picks including 13th pending physical per ESPN

    • TommyLawlor

      Pete Schrager just reported #13 and a late rounder next year.

      • TommyLawlor

        Update…now saying it is a conditional pick that is a 4th, but almost certainly will move up to being a 3rd.

        • RC5000

          Whew seems a little pricey to me even if it is Revis. Then you have to pay him also

          • Geagle

            any player who isn’t a QB, but expects to be paid like one….we can do without

  • Baloophi

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    • Anders

      put me on the list

      • Baloophi

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    • Jay Brosch

      Donation complete

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  • RC5000

    Catapano is a curious player for the Eagles. I didn’t see OLB type agility in him and I don’t think he stood up at Princeton. He looks like a potential 4-3 DE.

    I wonder if Chase Thomas has any potential to move inside? I realize he was a pass rusher at Stanford but I don’t know if that’s going to translate.

    • TommyLawlor

      I thought Mike had good agility in the games I watched.

      Had a 3-one time of 7.09, which is excellent for 270. To put that in perspective, it is better than former DB Matt Ware (7.23).

      Thomas to ILB is possible. Definitely could make some sense.

      • RC5000

        Maybe. I thought he looked heavy for the position but they obviously saw something they liked since they worked him out privately. I think he’s more of a Curry type but maybe he can lose weight.
        Curry had a 6.90, Cox had a 7.07 at 298.

        • Geagle

          I agree with all the negatives mentioned about Chase…but I get the feeling some team will like him, more than we think. He played pretty well against Oregon(wouldn’t be shocked if Kelly liked him)…I picture him in a niners jersey round 5

  • TommyLawlor
    • Geagle

      I always thought it could have been a possibility…They didn’t extend Monroe, the right side isn’t solidified. if you aren’t going to give up on Gabbert it might be a good idea to atleast give him some help so that he could possibly succeed

    • ceedubya9

      Please do.

    • Geagle

      getting the Lions to cough up a 4th, while coming away with Jordan is certainly best case scenario…you could possibly have a NT like B.Williams or possibly Jenkins fall to the 4th. I think solidifying your front 7 with Jordan and a NT, using the 4th pick has to be considered a Homerun…

      I also saw the cardinals rumors about them liking thier OTs more than people think, and that they would be happy with Chance at 7….I smell BLUFF!

    • Iskar36

      Albert Breer brought up a very good point about rumors about OTs.

      Albert Breer
      ‏@AlbertBreer

      Word is the Raiders and Browns are looking to bail out of their spots, but they need buyers. Availability of the LTs should dictate that.

      Albert Breer
      ‏@AlbertBreer

      And to that end, expect to hear about lotsa interest in LTs by all the teams atop the draft, whether it’s real or not, to spark trade talks.

      His point is referencing the Raiders and Browns, but I think the same logic certainly applies to the Jags as well. The rumors could be entirely legit, or the Jags, who are in a great position to create interest in one of the OTs, is trying to trade back.

      • A_T_G

        Either way, it improves our shot at getting Dion. If it is legit, good. If it is a bluff and it works, just as good. The problem would be if they bluff and get called and are forced to pick. Then Dion could be gone for us.

  • RC5000

    At one point, though, there was a risk that Jordan would not even play in college, much less the NFL. During Jordan’s senior year at Chandler High School (Ariz.) he and friends siphoned gas from a car to fill up an empty tank in another. They used a vacuum cleaner. When Jordan unplugged it, a spark ignited a blast and he suffered second- and third-degree burns on nearly half his body, putting a promising career in peril.

    Had not heard that about Dion…
    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20130421_Oregons_Dion_Jordan_is_well_known_to_Kelly.html

    • TommyLawlor

      Wow. Somehow missed that story. He must have been one scared kid back then. Glad things turned out so well, whether he becomes an Eagle or not. Good story.

      • RC5000

        For some reason it reminded me of my one of my college roommates and close friend who once set our tiny backyard on fire because he threw gasoline on a barbecue grill about three feet from our house. Because we didn’t have lighter fluid.

        We were able to put the fire out before the fire company was called otherwise our landlord probably would have evicted us if the house didn’t catch on fire and burn down.
        His comment to me was “I do it all the time, I just used too much”. I said “well that doesn’t make me feel any better”. Luckily he did not get burned (or anyone else).

        You had to know him. He’d give you the shirt off his back but he was a little crazy. He’d piss you off but if you survived it was funny.

        • TommyLawlor

          That’s quite the story. I know a few guys like that. Life is always an adventure with them. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Never boring.

  • Sifter

    Completely agree with the “How can I get upset with those players?” reasoning. Fans tend to get WAY too fussy at this point of year, where a pick is trashed if it’s not the exact player they wanted at they exact spot they wanted him. It also helps if we have a healthy faith in the coaches and organisation. Picking Geno or Jordan at #4 is not what I’d do at all, but I would support those picks because I’ve got faith in Chip Kelly.

    And we fans also change our minds too, meaning that who we want the Eagles to pick today is probably different from 2 weeks ago. eg. I’m currently on the lets pick Milliner bandwagon. Said wagon was nowhere to be seen 2 weeks ago haha

  • SuPaFrO

    Hey Tommy
    On the 2 round mock that u posted the other day, u picked us picking Ansah. and wrote him a a DE. would it be in base 3-4 or would that help move us closer to the “UNDER” look? or would he just be OLB in the 3-4?

    • TommyLawlor

      I was going with him as the 5-tech DE in the 3-4 or 4-3.

      It is possible the Eagles see him as a LB. Or that they don’t like him for either spot.

      • SuPaFrO

        Thanks tommy!

  • deg0ey

    What about John Simon? Should be a mid round pick, has experience standing up and Urban Meyer described him as one of the top-5 people he’s ever met.

    • TommyLawlor

      Watched him today to make sure. Don’t think he’s agile enough for the 3-4. Also short at 6-1. Would have been definite target for the old 4-3.

      • deg0ey

        That was kinda my thinking too. I feel bad for him because he’s kinda on the small side to play as a DE in the 4-3 and probably would be better suited standing up but, as you say, he’s probably not good enough in space for that.

  • ACViking

    Re: DJ . . . and CK’s Promotion

    T-Law:

    As you’ve recounted, Chipper — I think fairly early in his tenure here — spoke very highly of D-Jordan.

    He gave all indications that he loves how the kid projects both in terms of character and his on-field talent (to borrow from attorney Tom Hagen, “not just now but 10 years from now.”).

    We’ve been talking about how well Kelly and Roseman have been out-smokescreening the rest of the NFL. (Though most of us, myself included, don’t follow other teams, so it’s possible that Kelly and Roseman actually rank in the bottom quartile when it comes to lying [I don't mean that in a bad way either].)

    QUESTION: When Kelly spoke so well of Jordan as a truly special player 3-4 weeks ago, was Kelly being open and honest? Or was he smokescreeing?

    If Kelly was being honest (as I believe), then he seems to have committed a DRAFT-101 Blunder by telling the truth to the rest of the NFL . . . especially egregious because he was discussing a kid about whom he knows more than any other coach or scout.

    That’s the kind of intelligence I’d expect Roseman to have warned off Kelly from disclosing. Kelly seems smart enough to know that anyway.

    If, on the other hand, Kelly was blowing smoke, then it may have been one of the greatest “con” jobs in the past 10 year of the NFL draft.

    But if Kelly was conning . . . then who’s he have his eye on at what ever position he’s projecting Jordon at?

    Con job or the truth?

    If con job, then who’s Kelly got his eye on? Or should I say, Roseman . . . ?

    • TommyLawlor

      I think Kelly was being honest. He is new to the NFL and there’s no way he fully understood the pre-draft games. Also, he’s not going to bad-mouth a former player of his. Chip loves his guys. I think he got caught up in the moment.

      Chip will learn the ways of the NFL. Next year he’ll respond to questions on Oregon prospects by saying “He’s a heckuva player. Next question.”

  • SuPaFrO

    Random thought:

    KC wants to trade B.Albert
    Miami wants a LT
    Why don’t they just trade? Wouldnt Miami’s 2nd be good enough more or less?
    Sorry just seems like an obvious answer.
    Of course i don’t want that so we can trade back (if Jordan’s not there)

    • TommyLawlor

      Just put up a post on the Fish.

      http://eaglesblog.net/2013/04/dolphins-targets/

    • http://twitter.com/JackfinBauer Jack Bauer

      Not a problem with trade compensation between teams. Problem lies in the fact that Albert signed his franchise tender (+$9M guaranteed) and Miami is going to have to reach an extension that in palatable to Albert. Albert has the leverage and is reportedly looking for $8-9M / yr per PFT. They let Long walk for asking for similar terms. Unless Albert comes down Ireland faces letting a younger All Pro walk while paying an older, less accomplished OT the same $$ (I.E. not going to happen)

  • dislikedisqus

    Last year, I was the first on this blog to recommend Fletcher Cox. This year, the guy who jumps out at me as the best bet is Chance Warmack. I have in no way done the work that TL does. But I look for a guy with absolutely zero issueswho is unquestionably the best at his position. And among the handful of players who fit that description, who is most likely to be an All pro. I assume Joeckel is gone by the 4 pick. He fits the criteria. Milliner is close but fails the all pro test for me. Jordan is close but has the injury. I am hard pressed to find anyone who grades as well as Warmack. So he’a my pick. I don’t care that he’s a guard. I don’t agree with that positional weighting; if you get a chance at an all pro for multiple years you don’t pass him over for someone at a different position but a lesser ranking.

  • http://twitter.com/eaglesnut Greg Richards

    Perhaps a little shorter than ideal, but Trevardo Williams could be a 3-4 OLB candidate. Some think his teammate Sio Morre can play 3-4 OLB too.

  • GermanEagle

    I know German is Not everyone’s cup of language, but it’s Bjoern, and not Bjoenr Werner, buddy! ;)

  • Daz

    Is this legit or just made-for-tv hype? If this is legit, on athletic ability alone, Dion Jordan has to be our #4 pick, surely?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkyGYvKz30g 10yd acceleration comparable to a WR?? yes please!