The QB vs The Team
Posted: April 1st, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 105 Comments »There is an argument that the Eagles must draft a QB early this year. Chip Kelly is the new coach and he must have a QB to build around. That could be Geno Smith in the 1st round or EJ Manuel or Ryan Nassib in the 2nd round. You must get a QB early. Andy Reid did it with Donovan and look how that turned out. The coach had his guy and was able to groom him and build a team around him.
There is definite logic in this thinking. But it can also be flawed.
Dom Capers was the first ever coach of the Houston Texans. He drafted David Carr 1st overall to build his team around. Lane Kiffin took over the Oakland Raiders in 2007. He drafted JaMarcus Russell 1st overall to build his team around. Both players failed. Both coaches were fired. Both organizations struggled.
Peyton Manning was taken 1st overall in 1998 and we all know how things turned out for him. Was he simply better? That’s a big part of it, but also think about his supporting cast. The first RB he handed the ball to was HOF’er Marshall Faulk. The WR he threw to was Marvin Harrison, a potential HOF’er. His LT was Tarik Glenn, a 3-time Pro Bowl player. Peyton stepped onto a team that had a good offensive foundation in place. The weight of the world wasn’t on him. Carr and Russell had nothing close to this in terms of protection or weapons. Their poor play was partially due to circumstances. QBs do not win alone.
The Eagles have 2 of the top 35 picks in the draft. If they can land good players with both, the overall team will improve. That would take the pressure off whoever is the short term QB in 2013 and the long term QB in the future. You could add a stud OT to build a great line to play behind. You could load up on defense and give the QB help in that way.
Think about Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick. Both QBs were taken outside of the 1st round. Both played very well. Both had good running games, good to very good OL play, and outstanding defense. The overall teams were strong enough that there wasn’t as much pressure on them to be perfect.
If SEA or SF had a chance to draft an elite QB like Andrew Luck or RG3, they’d have done it in a heartbeat. Since neither team had anything close to a top pick, they went the other route and focused on building the top team possible. They found QBs that fit what they wanted outside the 1st round.
All 32 teams want elite QBs. There just aren’t that many great ones coming out of college. The Eagles have the #4 pick this year, but there is no franchise QB. The Eagles could feel that Geno Smith is close enough and worth the risk at #4. I do not feel that way. I’m not sold on Manuel or Nassib in the 2nd. All 3 QBs are talented. All 3 have NFL potential. I just feel like I’d rather build up the overall team and find a QB I do believe in.
Chip Kelly’s vote has a bit more influence than mine so we’ll have to wait and see what he thinks. Don’t get frustrated if the Eagles do pass on taking a QB early. That doesn’t mean we’re doomed to the Ray Rhodes QB carousel. Kelly can get one next year.
While this draft isn’t loaded with great passers, there is plenty of talent to be had. You can make a strong argument the Eagles would be wise to focus on the overall team. Let Kelly spend 2013 trying to figure things out and then go get his QB in 2014. After watching Mike Vick and Nick Foles play this spring, summer, and probably fall, Kelly might decide it is imperative to get a mobile QB or that he does want more of a pocket passer. Right now the NFL is a mystery to Kelly. He’s got plans on what to do and what he wants, but reality could be very different from his plans.
A few of you have asked about Foles in the comments section. Here’s the deal. He’s unknown. Foles could prove to be a great fit and the QB of the future. He could prove to be a square peg in a round hole and look awful. You cannot make QB plans around a player you don’t know about. The Eagles would be happy to spend a pick on a QB this year and have that player sit and watch as Foles played great football. The team wants a star QB. They don’t care who it is or where he comes from. Heck, wait til Kelly watches Isaac Sopoaga throwing those 70-yard passes in practice. NT/QB. Talk about your hybrid players.
* * * * *
Today is April 1st. Chip Kelly is finally allowed to talk to the players and start to go over schemes and roles. I’d love to tell you we’ll get answers right away, but that’s probably not the case. At least now some information can start to trickle in.
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Tommy, David Carr not Derek
Derek will be in the 2014 draft.
I knew that didn’t sound right. Thanks.
Assuming Margus Hunt didn’t completely destroy his will to play football after that bowl game. That poor true freshman RT must have been coached up by Winston Justice.
Wasn’t someone making the argument that Winston Justice and Mike McGlynn were good on the Colts, once they had gotten away from the Eagles? Ugh, those two were terrible picks. I can’t believe they went into the 2011 season content without a backup plan for Winston Justice, after they had benched him in the Packers playoff game loss.
Maybe that experience affected Grigson, who went out and got a new RT and a G to protect Luck, who made the most out of a miserable O-line last year. Goes to show just what a good QB can do for a line.
I don’t think Geno is a career-ender if he doesn’t work out. We wouldn’t have to do what the Redskins had to do for RG3, and it’s not like there’s an obviously special player we’d be passing up to get him. These are sort of special circumstances. If we are unable to trade out, can you really hold it against Howie or Chip for rolling the dice on a QB?
I’ve said repeatedly that if they believe in Geno, make the pick.
My point here is that you absolutely do not just “roll the dice” on a QB. That hurts the team in 2 ways. It costs you a potentially valuable position player and it has you waste time on a QB that you aren’t sold on.
Don’t go for potential. Take Geno if you think he can be a star. Look at the Titans and Jake Locker, a QB they thought they could develop. The team has mediocre overall talent. Would you rather have Locker’s potential or JJ Watt? They’d still need a QB, but could have had a dominating, impact player.
There is no guarantee that they’d have taken Watt. They could have missed with the pick aside from Locker. But in taking Jake, they made things doubly tough. He’s not good enough to carry the team. And the team didn’t get an impact player or even so-so starter in that 1st round.
Hmm drafting is tough. My analogy for Chip in building this franchise and finding a QB is that he is like a batter in baseball. He can’t count on fate to lob a floater right down the middle for him to clobber. If he gets a pitch, and it’s in the strike zone, he aught to swing, even if it’s not the ideal pitch, because strikes still count if you don’t swing.
Now is Geno in the strike zone and worth taking a swing at? Debatable, if yes, i say swing away.
when talking about “the strike zone”, I would refer talking 3rd-5th round picks…I would prefer a little more certainty for our 1st and 2nd round picks….I see passing on Geno, as not desperately swinging for a pitch far outside the strikes one(when talking about the 4th pick in the draft)… if Chip feels like that he has to have Geno Smith, then I will get excited. But leading up to the draft, I can’t actually believe that we are going to take him with the 4th pick..
even if they pass on Geno the other picks wouldn’t be any safer. Top of the draft is terrible for talent this year. There is no Von Miller or JJ Watt waiting for them as a fall back to no QB.
Dude, I hate that argument…when you have the chance at picking the 4th best player in the draft…find JJ watt or Von Miller…there is ATleast 4 great players to come out of each draft class…I want one lol
It’s not terrible on talent. It’s not necessarily ready made superstars.
The KEY is Kelly convinced Smith is HIS guy because you take him and he has to be your guy for the next 2-3 years at least. Also they’ve spent time with Smith including some time with the mental side of it. Kelly also may think he can implement his system without drafting the franchise QB right now if he doesn’t feel Geno is his guy. I lean toward that although if Kelly thinks Geno is his guy, he’ll take him if he’s there.
Tommy outlines the crux of the argument and I have thought the exact same thing for a while.
Read the Nolan Nawrocki report on Geno!!!!! MUST READ
Of course if our coach thinks a QB is his guy, we have to take him…I just Don’t see why Chip would think Geno is his guy…I have a very hard time picturing us draft Geno…but if our new HC, who I believe him wants Geno, then I’m all for it…I just don’t believe that its true at this point
To further the analogy, when you are picking top 5, you have to be thinking like you are a batter with a 3-0 count. You better only swing if you get “your” pitch, not just a strike. Strikes count if you don’t swing, but you’d rather take a strike than pop one up.
JJ watt or Locker? damn that has to hurt!
rookie cap makes it easier to keep drafting QBs until you hit on one. with QBs being developed so much better at the high school and college level it doesn’t take very long to know if you have a keeper or not.
I hate this argument!!! Missing on draft picks is a Disaster regardless of how much, or how little you are paying a guy
The reason Geno could be a career- ender is that most new coaches get a few years to turn the team around. So when you draft a QB that high you have to give them that time to prove themselves because no one will pull the plug after a bad rookie year. If the QB doesn’t pan out and is still playing poorly after year three then the coach is generally out with them like Lane Kiffin in Oakland with Russell and probably Munchak in Tennessee this year with Locker.
I’m with Tom on this…Only QB I can stomach is Drysert in the 4th prefab,y 5th….Much rather just keep adding talent to this team, so that when the RIGHT guy comes along, we can stick him behind center of a good team already in place. Nothing hurts your franchise more than missing on your top draft picks…at the end of the college season, no one wanted any of these college QBs,..Yet people knew they wanted Andrew Luck two years before he came out…we will be waiting along time if we are only going to look for sure things like Andrew Luck, but, I feel like right now drafting a QB would be forcing the issue, and when we did that in the past, we usually got burnt. Not really sure how anyone can even talk about Geno as the 4th best player in this draft class, but to each his own I guess…just a few more weeks, and we will finally get some answers
The reason to wait ’til next year is simpler in my book. The QB quality is A LOT higher.
everyone’s favorite line now is, but look at Matt Barkley..as if every good QB that choses not to enter the draft is going to have a bad year in college and ruin his draft stock…It’s not like there is only one or two good QBs next year, there is a handful. I highly doubt they will all decline. Not to mention, it’s not just a class for good QBs. you Have OT’s Mathews and Lewan, the Monster Clowney, and TE freak Austin Sefrian Jenkins….No matter ow good the QBs are, they won’t be the first 5 picks in the draft. A good QB will still probably be around in the 8 or 9 range…so even if we have a much improved year and pick 15th, we will still be in a reasonable trade up range to get a QB….the key is to hope that some of these bad teams find QBs this year that they aren’t ready to give up on next year so that there is a better chance that teams picking at the top pass on a QB, and guys start falling to us, or in the trade down range from us..Love to see the Raiders or Jags take Geno, because both will suck regardless next year, and might keep them from drafting a QB again next year high in rd 1
QBs will always be over valued in the draft in today’s league, and there will always be very QB needy teams. Eagles fans won’t be happy with a guy that isn’t pretty unanimously considered to be a future franchise QB (by the media at least). So I only assume you are expecting to get that type of guy in the next draft. Shoot even McNabb was booed at the draft and he was the 2nd QB off the board. There havn’t been any Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rothlesburger falls of late. Even freaking Tim Tebow was drafted in the first round. Blain Gabbert, Christian Ponder, and Ryan Tannehill have all been high picks in recent drafts.
Its a QB starved league and if you want a consensus beast for a future QB you are going to have either suck terribly or sell the farm. I personally hope the teams wins with the QBs on the roster… even more so that Foles is the guy. If he isn’t the answer hopefully he can at least hold the fort down (wild card?) until Chip identifies his RG3 (whatever year that may be) at that point I hope they sell the farm, their truck, and kid sister to get him.
I’m Hoping that Nick Foles can be developed into a franchise guy. I can’t say whether it will happen or not…but I’m damn sure not going to rule it out after 6 games. I wouldn’t rule anyone out after 6 games behind the best Oline of all time, so how could I rule him out after seeing him play behind slop? personally, I don’t see anyone in this draft, who you can say is that much better of a prospect than Foles…these prospects are all so flawed in one way or another. it onljy costs some 3rd round chump change to find out if we can fix Foles flaws..I would rather spend a year trying to do that, before we start investing picks that we could really use in so many other spots, on another QB that will need time to develope. If we are going to discard QBs after 6 games, it’s going to be a long time til we find our franchise guy. Finding one is hard enough..Finding one that can prove it the moment he steps on the field as a rookie is even harder.
Assuming we are waiting until next year to pick our QB of the future, might it not be a good idea to trade some picks for another first rounder next year so we have the ammunition to go get him?
Getting a 2014 1st round pick might be more difficult than getting an Easter ham away from a pack of wolves.
LOL. Except, no one in their right mind wants to wrestle an Easter ham away from a pack of wolves! Almost everyone wants an extra 1st round pick in 2014.
There is always a chance, no matter how slim, that another team / coach / GM wants a player now (!) and just is wiling to take their chances without a 2014 1st round draft. They think: “Besides, if these picks work out, we won’t be drafting very high in 2014 anyway.”
I sure hope the other teams think that way. But with some of the lower-tier teams like the Bills, Raiders, and Browns who have already signed a QB, they’re probably employing the cautionary principle in not wanting to give up their 2014 1st-round pick. I hope the Cardinals, Jets, or even the Titans trade up with us.
I honestly think it would take a small miracle as well as only accepting a 2nd, and 4th this year and a 1 and 3 next year.
Hey Tommy,
When do you think you’ll have the rankings up on ScoutsNotebook? I always look forward to your view on players.
I have to agree with building up the team overall. The reason being, I think the Eagles can win with Vick, Foles, or Dixon. The supporting cast is strong, and Kelly should run significantly more than Reid did. Also, even though this isn’t a strong QB class it seems fairly deep. I would say take a QB later, and see if you can’t develop him. I’m getting too far a head of things, but I could see the Eagles having a season similar to the one the Redskins had last year. A slow start, but an eventual turnaround. That’s just my feeling.
Stop with the Dixon nonsense….but everything else I agree with
Tommy, Brent at Eagles Rewind has taken a few looks at Foles’s numbers and is much more optimistic about him then you seem to be, from what I can tell:
http://eaglesrewind.com/2012/12/18/nick-foles-perspective/
http://eaglesrewind.com/2013/01/15/more-on-foles/
Obviously, he is still an unknown and of course ideally we draft Peyton Manning this year regardless, but I don’t understand how more of us aren’t excited to find out what he can do this year – yourself included. Obviously, you are the ex nfl scout and I am an internet commenter, but his problems last year seem very fixable (poor deep ball technique, bad anticipation at times). Also, the reports that he’s not on the market trade-wise (if true) suggest that CK et al are very high on him, as it seems Reid was/still is.
Does he have major problems that would scare you away? What am I missing?
Foles played in a very safe offense. In particular, completion percentage is not a good stat to look at because of how many screens were called. Stats aren’t as important as how he looks on film. He has some great plays and then some headscratchers like the pass to Maclin at the end of the game in Tampa. His arm isn’t ideal, and to be successful long term he’s going to need to cultivate something like Tom Brady and Drew Brees’s mental prowess within the game because he’s 100% pocket passer. I really like the way the kid plays, but it’s way too early to be excited about him.
His arm is fine, its his footwork thats needs to be better. Look at a guy like Tom Brady, he does not have a cannon for an arm, but can make all the throws because of great footwork.
I agree about how his footwork seems to be holding him back. By ideal I just meant, well, ideal. Like how Vick could (can?) flick the ball 50 yards downfield without setting his feet.
I have a very hard time believing that Reid & Morninwheg did not coach Foles up on his footwork. I think their ability to coach and develop QBs is exactly why they weren’t on the bread line for very long. I am of the opinion that Foles’ arm just isn’t that great. Agree with your point above that it’s going to take a deep understanding of the offense, accuracy and ball placement, and the ability for Foles to “throw guys open” for him to succeed, because he doesn’t have that McNabb/Vick style “see it/throw it” arm strength; my only caveat being that I think Brees and Brady have better velocity than they’re credited for.
But how much coaching did you think they could do in one season, when he wasn’t even the starter going into the season? Again, to compare Brady, he certainly didn’t have great arm strength his first year, and it has improved, as other say, in part because of his mechanics (specifically footwork). If Brady’s arm has improved, there’s no reason Foles’s couldn’t either, and I think that Foles has better velocity than you’re crediting him for.
This isn’t to say Foles is Brady; he’s not. But Brady did have mediocre arm strength coming into the league and he was able to improve it. I think you’re being harder on Foles than necessary. it’s fine to say Foles can’t be like Brady as far as how his football mind and decision making work, because Brady is truly special in that regard. But something as mechanical as footwork to improve the deep ball? There’s simply no reason to assume THAT is out of the realm of possibility for someone like Foles.
Looking through my posts, I don’t think I ever actually said it was out of the realm of possibility, just that he didn’t have that arm now. I think his time with Reid & Morninwheg is more hands-on intensive QB development coaching than some NFL guys get in a career.
That’s fine if you think Foles velocity as good as it is. That seems to be a separate argument entirely than the one saying he can improve it.
Brady has always had “enough” arm strength, and his arm, for example, is not superior to Brees. Give Brady a bit of that Tommy John magic and maybe it will be.
What Brady does, and what Matt Ryan can’t do, is be able to max out his arm strength for his second, third, or defensive failure reads, maintain mechanics and consistently deliver the ball on point. Usually, as with Ryan, he’s going for very quick reads, and probably pre-snap, mostly.
I think you’re giving too much credit to Reid/Mornhinweg. They might be a pair of the best, but the nature of the profession is such that being the best doesn’t mean you’re much better than the average. And I think it’s unrealistic to think that Foles has mastered or should have mastered footwork after just his rookie season. When I compare how he uses his feet during throws to better quarterbacks, he lacks fluidity. He looks like he is less efficient at generating power in his legs and transferring it to his arm than a quarterback who has truly mastered the complete sequence of motion. Brees, Brady, Manning come to mind. I think it’s something he can learn, but like you I wouldn’t be surprised if for whatever reason he doesn’t manage to.
well said
Actually his footwork did improve alot compared to him in college. It just takes time to improve it and when under stress you often revert back to old habits until the new habits are ingrained in your blood.
its not uncommon to see mechanicsgo out the window when a QB is under heavy amounts of pressure…How many times have we seen the great Brady crumble under pressure? So are we really expecting Foles to get in a game as a rookie, when the game is already moving a million miles per hour, under that type of pressure and be able to throw with the proper mechanics on every single play? Doubt you will see that til he gets behind a COMPETANT line that he grows to trust
How many QBs can do that? Kaepernick and Joe Flacco to some extend are the only two.
Yep. That’s precisely the definition of ideal.
That’s not footwork, that’s just Vick’s incredibly special gift. He’s got a phenomenal arm, and you can’t teach it. Didn’t he throw the ball something like 70 yards once, from his knees? I think I remember something like that from his rookie year. Obviously, that’s not connected to footwork. That’s incredible upper body and core coordination and strength.
That’s interesting that you’d equate Tom Brady’s arm to Foles’. Can’t agree. I think Brady’s arm strength has improved dramatically during his time in the league, and the zip he puts on balls to the intermediate level is noticeable. He doesn’t have an Joe Flacco/Aaron Rodgers/Jay Cutler/Cam Newton arm, but I’d say he can spin a ball that’s much better than average. It’s been so long since he’s had a true deep threat, but didn’t he & Moss assault the record books by way of the long ball, primarily?
I’d put Foles with a guy like Alex Smith or Kevin Kolb for arm strength. I’d say they are just barely there in terms of minimum arm-strength for an NFL QB, and not a fit for every scheme. It’s odd because, you’d figure he’d be a lot more big-armed at 6’6 or whatever he is. Beyond just his lack of deep accuracy, his passes seem to flutter, and I can’t remember a lot of really well thrown lasers to the second level, either.
So what about Foles prevents his arm from making the same improvements as Brady’s? The footwork argument seems to explain Brady’s improvement over the “he just got a better arm” argument, since arm strength at the QB level is something that is traditionally viewed as something you can’t coach (yes, I know that you can lift weights to strengthen your arm, but that’s not the same as improving functional quarterback arm strength).
That’s a very difficult question for me to answer, and one probably better posed to a world-class QB guru…someone like say…Andy Reid or Marty Mornhinwheg. Maybe they just forgot to mention the benefits of footwork?
Sarcasm aside, there are several areas where guys like Brady or Brees just seem to have a better feeling for the game, and an unquenchable desire to get better. It’s hard to quantify or put your finger on. Brady is a psychopath about winning. It’s too early to say that Foles definitely doesn’t possess that, but at the same time, very, very few guys do. It’s more likely than not, that he is not going to turn that same corner.
I totally agree about Brady, and again, I don’t want to say that Foles is that guy. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. He’s show good grace under pressure, if nothing else, which is one of Brady and Montana’s best attributes. So that’s encouraging. But it’s a long shot to say he’s anything like Brady.
All I’m saying is that his arm strength compares very well with Brady’s arm strength, and the way that Brady was able to improve should be within Foles reach. And I don’t think it’s fair to assume that Foles was going to pick up everything Reid and Mornhinweg had to teach in one year, so criticizing a rookie QB for imperfect footwork seems a bit…what’s the word…Skeptical?
Well, in fairness to Foles, I really do like the way he throws on the run, and I agree with you that he is unfazed in a muddy pocket. That’s big. You could very well be right that his arm strength can improve.
I sure as hell hope so. That kind of pocket presence is definitely something that can’t be taught. At this point, I agree with what I think is your point: that it’s hard to count on Foles as anything more than a “maybe” at this stage in the game.
Foles can pass a beautiful deep ball when he gets his feet with him, problem is he often forgets to reset his feet
I’m really struggling to remember any deep throws I was impressed by. Can you mention one that sticks out for you? The preseason bomb to Mardy Gilyard? The long pass to Damaris where he destroyed the defender with a move and was wide open?
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000115143/Maclin-27-yard-touchdown
Its not a bomb, but still a perfect placed deep throw (anything over 20 yards is considered deep in the NFL)
There was one throw that I remember so clearly when Foles threw a beautiful pass to Maclin on a corner route for a TD against the Redskins when he ran pass two defenders. That was one of the better protections the Eagles offensive linemen gave him when Foles was able to set his feet and establish the throw.
Now, imagine the kind of protection next season’s offensive line can give Foles. If Foles can continue to excel and/or improve with the pre-snap reads and capitalize his passes, both with intermediate and deep balls, the arm strength wouldn’t be such a huge issue.
Just by getting 6 games experience in his rookie year, the game should slow down for him drastically this year compared to last year…Just by default, his Oline will be significantly better. I don’t think he will ever play behind more pressure than he played under last year…Tweak his footwork, put Him behind a competant line, and once the game slows down for him, and he trusts his line enough to be able to throw with the proper mechanics on every single play regardless of the pressure….that’s when we will get to find out what kind of QB we have on our hands. Trying to judge him, prior to that would be a mistake IMHO
Oh gawd, the arm, yes, the arm is a problem for Foles, but it’s not the sole problem. The other big issues are slow decisionmaking and a relatively long delivery.
Tom Brady’s arm also got much better than it used to be. Given Chip Kelly’s ‘scientific’ approach, the Eagles should invest in some of those cutting-edge throwing mechanics guys.
I am not too impressed by this analysis because it is treating 2012 passing stats as if they are an apples-to-apples comparison to QB stats from a decade ago.
Here is a study by Chase Stuart that puts things into context a bit more. Foles’ rookie campaign doesn’t fare so well:
http://www.footballperspective.com/comparing-rookie-quarterbacks-to-their-teams-prior-years-stats/
No, it doesn’t account for the offensive line troubles, but it does show that the numbers themselves were not so special. Putting Foles 2012 campaign in elite company is a mistake.
All that shows is that Foles performed worse than Vick in 2011 nothing else. As was noted if you replaced a good to above average QB your numbers would look bad.
Thats also why some of the better QBs who replaced crap look so good while Foles who replaced an average QB looks worse.
I am not sure you can use SEA or SF in the argument for taking a qb later. In hindsight most teams probably would feel they were underrated and should have been drafted in round 1. I am not sure any qb this year is as good as them knowing what we know now. I am hoping for Fischer at 4 personally but I am ok with Chip pulling the trigger at any point after that on a qb if he thinks the guy is going to fill tgat void long term.
I think you can, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Yes, in retrospect their quarterbacks would be drafted higher. That’s not the point. The point is, a QB is a risky pick and there are no guarantees in the first round. Why not build a team up with quality picks at positions that are traditionally “safer” (i.e., easier to project success for in the NFL), and try for your quarterback in later rounds? You may hit on the QB, you may not, but in the meantime you’ve built a team that is stronger than if you went the other route. And you increase the chances that a QB, no matter what round he’s taken in, can have success. SEA and SF prove Tommy’s argument completely.
I Strongly agree…It’s important to not miss on top picks…Just keep adding talent, building your team…so that when the right guy comes along, he will take center behind a good team, and have the best chance to succeed…Nothing hurts the rebuilding process more than missing on your 1st and 2nd round picks…
The word is KC has narrowed their choices to 3…Joekel, King Fish, and Dion….If the Fatman takes a linebacker with the first pick in the draft, let alone the first round, I will hate him forever lol…Could he really be considering Dion, or is he trying to get us to bite, and trade up( If he is our target )?…..The one year, I finally have hope that we draft a top LB talent, the Fatman better not come along and embezzle my beloved lB away from me lol
For me, “You need a QB to build around” ranks up there with “establish the run” or “when so and so rushes x times per game team x wins y percentage of games” in superficial analysis. You never sound stupid saying it, but it doesn’t actually mean anything other than “You really should get an awesome player to lead your team.”
I’m more interested to see if Kelly’s system can translate to the NFL, what he’s going to do with an up tempo offense and what the switch to a 4-3 under will mean for the team. But even more than that, why do you want a coach to say “this is my guy” unless he’s really gung ho about it? Why does he have to find his franchise QB in his first year, when the first year is going to be a feeling out process anyway?
Decide where you’re going, then find the guy to get you there. Don’t pick a franchise QB unless you don’t mind being married to the guy for 10 years.
Disagree on the last one.
Yes, but we have standards around here.
Great examples of 1st-round busts and booms, Tommy, whose individual QB success ultimately depends on the success of the offensive foundation. The example you pointed out with Manning when he had offensive weapons around him made me think that maybe Foles has a chance. Yes, I’m aware Foles is still a flawed QB but he’s shown some promising talent last season.
Based on a bunch of dire circumstances he’s had to endure through last season (e.g., offensive linemen injuries, DeSean’s being on the IR, Maclin’s on-and-off minor injuries, Shady’s concussion, the Castillo’s firing which led the defense to play even worse, thus adding even more pressure on Foles), that’s a lot of pressure for a young rookie QB to go through. Now, simple logic would tell you that with all (or hopefully most) of our offensive linemen coming back from injuries, assuming both DeSean and Maclin can continue to stay healthy, with the additions of hopefully Benn and Momah contributing significantly, Foles should be able to play better, which is why I’m all for giving him another chance, or whoever other QB outcompetes him, but I certainly hope it’s not Vick.
As I said, Foles is still a flawed QB and there remains some question marks at the other positions, specifically at the offensive linemen. This is why I believe we should invest most of our picks in stockpiling talent around Foles just to give him another chance and see if he can perform better.
You’ve listed the reasons why I agree that Foles needs a legit chance to prove himself in the NFL. I hope he gets it this year…
also, shouldn’t your icon look like this?
Lol, why’s that?
EaglesHero87 (i.e. #87) just having a little fun 🙂
It’s a good number for a good player
Based on the videos from that Oregon Ducks fan you posted when Kelly first got hired, the Read Option surely doesn’t look like rocket science. On that assumption: shouldn’t Kelly be able to figure out within a week’s worth of practices, or even a mini-camp, whether Foles can do it, and to what level?
They wouldn’t run the read option with Foles
I can’t imagine that Kelly would think so highly of Foles that he would scrap the the read option for him, unless he thought Foles was a definite long-term star in a non-read option system.
You can bet that during a game they will never run a readoption play if for whatever reason Foles is playing. And you’re exactly right, it would take Chip Kelly thinking Foles can be a longterm answer in a traditional NFL passing offense to make Foles his guy. But that’s a requirement of a QB who does have the mobility to run option plays as well.
Consider Kelly is not married to the read options, the QB who is the best passer will be the QB in 2013
Yup..The most accurate QB, who can read defenses, make the best decisions, and take care of the ball…will be the starting QB. Looking around at what else we have in the QB stable, Foles certainly has a shot
Welcome to “Suck for Luck 2.0”. There are NO franchise QBs in 2013 draft but there may be a few in 2014. Which teams will pull an “indy”? Hope we take one of the 3 stud OTs and Chip “walks the walk” about not needing a franchise QB. Not on-board with us taking Smith at #4 or anywhere before late 1st if we trade down. OK with us trading down for more picks in 2013 or 2014. BTW, after 1+ years of watching Brady did NE think he would become “TOM BRADY” or did they think he was “nick foles”? (from wiki):
2000 season
Brady was selected with pick #199, a compensatory pick, in the sixth round of the 2000 NFL Draft.[19] According to Michael Holley’s book Patriot Reign, the Patriots were considering Brady and Tim Rattay, both of whom had received positive reviews from then-quarterbacks coach Dick Rehbein.[20] Ultimately, the Patriots front office chose Brady. Considering his later achievements, many analysts have called Brady the best NFL draft pick of all time.[21][22][23][24]
Brady started the season as the fourth string quarterback, behind starter Drew Bledsoe and backups John Friesz and Michael Bishop; by season’s end, he was number two on the depth chart behind Bledsoe.[25] During his rookie season, he was 1-of-3 passing, for six yards.[26]
2001 season
The Patriots opened the season with a 23–17 loss at Cincinnati, with Bledsoe as the starting quarterback.[26] Their second game, and home opener, on September 23, was against their AFC East rival, the New York Jets. Bledsoe was again the starter, when in the fourth quarter he suffered internal bleeding after a hit from Jets linebacker Mo Lewis. Bledsoe returned for the next series, but was replaced with Brady for the Patriots’ final series of the game. New York would hold on to win, 10–3, and the Patriots fell to 0–2 on the season.[27] Brady was named the starter for the season’s third game, against the Indianapolis Colts. In his first two games as starter, Brady posted unspectacular passer ratings of 79.6 and 58.7, respectively, in a 44–13 victory over the Colts (in their last season in the AFC East) and a 30–10 loss to the Miami Dolphins.[28]
The pre draft mini camp will be the proving ground for this hot button debate on wether to add a QB or not. I really like what we have done with the QB situation by bringing back Vick on a 1yr deal, although most didn’t and rightfully so, also guys like Dixon and Kinney with Foles in the mix. Open the competition up and play the best guy. With the big QB news over the weekend and today as three of the top 10 draft teams find QBs like Flynn in Oakland, Kolb in Buffalo, and Palmer potentially heading to AZ i find these moves damning for the class of 13. If teams are willing to make these moves for QBs then i don’t see a situation where we take a QB till at least the 4th round at the earliest.
We as fans have been spoiled by great QB play from rookies over the last couple of years to the point we look at the class of 13 with the attitude of what’s wrong with these guys. These guys might surprise us and play alot better then what we expect i just hope these kids don’t get over drafted. Alot of people are banking on class of 14 as better class but hold that thought. Guys like Teddy Bridgewater and Tajh Boyd are both arm talented athletes that could fit what Chip wants to do. Both guys might get down graded by measurables or whatever scouts seem to make up during the draft process. Bridgewater a junior next year might not come out and stay another year, same could and should go for Braxton Miller, Marcus Mariota, Johnny Manziel. Other top guys like Aaron Murray, Logan Thomas, and AJ McCarron would seem to not fit the offense we want to run. Under the radar guys that if they preform could be targets next yr, James Franklin Mizzu, Chuckie Keeton Utah State, Cody Fajardo Nevada. I know i’m jumping the gun big time herewith looking ahead to next yr, but every class is not without its reaches and question marks. Andrew Luck was the only sure thing scouts where willing to bang the table for. RG3 had a special season but many questioned wether or not he could b that in the NFL. Tannahill was a converted WR with 17 starts at QB. Russell Wilson was under6 ft tall. So to assume we can just get our guy next yr and everything will b ok is the wrong thinking.
Im not positive but i think Keith Price will be a Senior also, I haven’t watched him to to much but he seems like another solid prospect coming out next year.
Your right, Keith Price will be a senior and is in that same category of arm talented athletes with a solid senior campaign could make some waves come this time next year. Price, the kid from Oregon, and Hundelyfrom UCLA are the top returning QBs in the Pac 12 that would seem to fit our offense nicely.
Is the twitter account rowie_hoseman really howie? It’s pretty funny.
No its a fake one hence the R instead of an H
Nooo.
Andy Reid has now successfully committed Andy on Andy crime twice.
He must have something against the Stud in Studebaker.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/01/chiefs-re-sign-edgar-jones-cut-andy-studebaker/
The guy who took a lot of crap for ripping into Cam Newton when he was a prospect(ended up being right about Cam)….gave a very similar review to Geno. HE raised a lot of red flags yesterday(if true)…The guys name is Nolan nawrocki and it was on PFT yesterday. It’s a MUST READ..sorry cant provide a link from work
How did he end up been right about Cam? Also just about everyone is smashing the guy on twitter
did you not see how Cam acted this past year? If Cam acted that way in Philly, we would have crucified him…I think Cam needs to grow up, and do it FAST…
mayock also believed him to be a credible source who does his research…and wouldn’t dispute anything Nawrocki said about Geno
King Dunlap was like Hodor from Game of Thrones, a gentle giant who might have some mental things going on up there.
Hahahahahahahaha…size of the Giant, courage of the imp
Has there been a Tommy sighting? I’m going into withdrawal.
Today Desean and Foles will be made available to the public, so I’m Sure we will hear something. Listening to Peters talk yesterday was getting me so pumped up! It’s the beginning of April and he is already intense.. Love it
All I know is, one Eaglesblog.net the first sentence is “Derek Landri signed a 2-year deal with the Bucs.” I’m not sure we have heard from Tommy since…
I know! Graham and Peters speak, though no insight on Graham’s future, Peters confirms health. NA signs with niners (so much for getting back to the Superbowl, suckers).
Peters shed some light on his workout, it sounds crazy. I want to see video of the O-line doing hurdles. How high are these things, after seeing videos of that kid from Louisville I can’t help but imagine a 300 pound man coming down from a leap and get nervous. It speaks to the amazing athleticism of these guys, honestly, linemen (both sides) might be the most physically gifted human beings on the field.
Yeah, hope everything’s OK.
I had the same thought, which speaks both to his work ethic and the loyalty of his readers.
He’s tweeting but not posting 🙁
Well thank God. I thought he was lying dead in a vat of chocolate pudding somewhere.
It would have been time to call Megan so she could say her final farewells
Re: T-Law sighting . . .
Check over at Scouts Notebook
Ok, now that we’re all relieved you’re ok, make with the articles fudge boy!
Sorry, but there is no shot in hell that we draft Geno!!