Talking About Talking About QBs

Posted: June 10th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 81 Comments »

The hottest topic for Eagles Nation right now is the QB competition. This subject is tricky. Some fans are pro-Vick and others are pro-Foles. Others are anti-Vick or anti-Foles. And then there are some of us in the middle who just want to see what happens.

The problem happens when fans personalize things. “If you think that, your opinion is worthless”.  Ugh.

Another problem is that some fans get too aggressive in ripping the player they don’t like. “Vick is an idiot”. Ugh.

We’ve got June, July and at least half of August to discuss this subject. We don’t have to hold hands and sing “Maybe I’m Amazed” to each other, but we’ve got to drop the over-aggression in the comments about the players.

You can rip on a guy for his performance or something you don’t like about him. This doesn’t have to be pure scout talk. If you don’t like Vick’s attitude or Foles mannerisms, talk about it. Just stop with the extreme stuff. Rip a guy, but don’t insult him or his supporters. That’s when people get upset and lash out.

Barring something strange, either Vick or Foles will be the starter. Some fans are going to have to cheer for a guy they don’t care for all that much. My advice…get over it.

I wasn’t happy when Vick got the job over Kevin Kolb back in 2010, but I quickly learned to embrace Vick’s ability and enjoyed watching his magic that year. I wasn’t happy when the Eagles drafted Nick Foles, but quickly learned to enjoy watching him in the 2012 preseason. You support the guy who’s out there playing for our beloved Eagles.

Do you know how many Eagles QBs I’ve cheered for? Infinity + 37. I can’t imagine what AC Viking has seen. Infinity times infinity, maybe. He thinks I’ve had it easy.

Can Vick win us the Super Bowl? Foles? Barkley? Some kid in college? Has the kid been born? Has his dad been born? These are questions that Socrates, Plato and even Rich Kotite don’t know the answer to. All we can do is cheer for the guy who takes the snaps and hope for the best. And of course boo him relentlessly for every incompletion. I’m pretty sure that will inspire him to win us the big game.

Now let’s get back to ripping GJ Kinne. This is all his fault.

_


  • Mitchell

    I’m just glad for a breath of fresh air, as far as coaching goes. I prefer Foles because no matter how good a quarterback CAN be, he has to be on the field to show it.

    • Mitchell

      Btw. First

      • Gary

        Most inappropriate comment in either thread.

        • Flyin

          The only thing inappropriate was that the “First” was really second. Kinne is keeping times on this stuff.

        • Mitchell

          No need to get butt hurt. It was merely a joke and a poor one at that!

          • Gary

            I was just messin’ man.

          • Mitchell

            Good now I don’t have to Falcon Punch you lol jk.

        • GEagle

          innapropriate would be calling a fellow fan out just because you don’t like how he is enjoying his IgglesBlitz experience. You don’t like a comment, skip over it. if someone doesn’t disrespect you, leave it alone

    • aub32

      Didn’t Foles get hurt after only starting 6 games? How does he get the nod in the injury department too? If anything, he proves that injuries can happen to anyone. So it really shouldn’t be a factor in choosing the QB.

      • Mitchell

        That’s true but I was factoring in to account that Vick only has the one year of starting 16 games, right? So you can basically count him out for at least a couple games. Foles, while getting injured last season (behind a shoddy line I might add) still has no where near the amount of injuries Michael has amassed nor the play style to acquire said injuries. I see what you’re saying though. As they say everything can change in one play. I just want to win!!!! GO EAGLES!!!!

    • Mac

      What’s with all this hype about fresh air?!

      All the Kool Kids are enjoying it.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlxUp8ZHLe8

      • Mitchell

        Lol gotta love the cigs. I guess you could compare the Eagles to cigarettes, icy stream filters, and penguins? Funny commercial lol.

  • Flyin

    As far as the race goes… I think it is…
    1. Vick
    2. Dixon
    3. Barkley
    4. Foles
    and Kinne is manning the stopwatch.

    • TommyLawlor

      Took me a minute to get that, but well played.

      • Flyin

        That’s better than Foles time… update

        1. Vick
        2. Dixon
        3. Barkley
        4. Lawlor
        5. Foles

        • TommyLawlor

          Nice.

          • Flyin

            Jon said that his wife would like to be be your snapper after practice… if you want to get a few more reps in.

          • A_T_G

            Hopefully she isn’t a long snapper like her husband. You should work on the hard count followed by a QB sneak, staying in tight behind the center. Just don’t lunge for the endzone too soon.

          • Flyin

            I’m hoping she works with his ball security. She is striving for high and tight.

          • A_T_G

            That’s a good start, but I’m hoping for more. I want to see her stay low and use her hands to open a nice crease for him. Really, with her athleticism, she should be able to get out with the tight end and open a nice hole for Tommy to exploit.

  • matthew Verhoog

    I can’t stand GJ Kinne and all Kinnation. The hyperhyperbole machine got left on all night, and is now cold anchovies. You know what the G stands for? Gary, and the J? Joe, who gives there kid two first names! Make up you minds. all you fools who think GJ is going to beat out Vickolearkly are insane in the membrane.

    • D3FB

      The kid had a profile on E60 before he even made a roster. Prima donna.

    • TommyLawlor

      110% true.

    • Telmert

      Go ahead and jump on GJ now, but when there’s under 2 minutes left in the first pre-season game and he throws a quick out to Nick Miller that goes for 6.5 yards, you’ll all be singing a different tune!

      • TommyLawlor

        I’ll be on that bandwagon faster than Chip Kelly on an undersized TE.

  • HipDaDip

    Sounds like the QB decision will be Chip’s first opportunity to really alienate some fans. I don’t think people will be able to accept that Chip choosing Vick will simply mean that he prefers him to Foles (or vice versa), and not that Chip has found the ideal QB to run his offense in year 1. Also, Kinne is an idiot.

    • TommyLawlor

      How dare you say that about GJK!!!

  • Flyin

    As a long time reader of Tommy, I just want to share a couple thoughts…

    I have talked trash, ripped players and coaches, and insulted people on the boards discussing the Eagles. However, most of the time it was in threads that had that type of give and take. i.e. Rant and Rave, trolls on the EMB, other times I just pushed the limits.

    After saying that, Tommy’s posts have always been sacred. You should always show respect. The amount of time he has put in to give us all that he does is mind blowing. Don’t disrespect that. What seperates Tommy from all other sites is the fact there is no nonsense within the community. I know I have a post or two, three that I have regretted by going beyond the realm of what is right and respectful on this site.

    Please be mindful and respectful.

    • Tumtum

      Ripping a guys ability to play a game and calling him the worst names in the book are two very different things. Football fans in general have a hard time drawing the line in the sand.

      That being said my mind changes on a daily basis as far as the QB competition goes. It’s the one position that I think is impossible not to have a strong opinion about when it is up for debate.

      How about that rain shortened W Tommy? Go go Sweaty Freddie! Okay they might restart play at 11..

      • TommyLawlor

        I was praying they’d call the game so we’d have the win over Weaver.

        • Tumtum

          He looked frustrated there in the 6th to say the least.

      • Flyin

        I never said anything about expressing strong opinions… I was stressing how to show class and respect in expressing those opinions. As well as those discussing amongst one another.

        • Tumtum

          I was really just building on your point. I’m with ya.

          • Flyin

            Roger that. Maybe I need thicker skin.

          • Tumtum

            I think its safe to say JJ is back on track.

          • TommyLawlor

            Yeah, his movement is back. That’s what makes his fastball so tough. 3 ground balls = good inning.

  • joe

    Tommy literally used two things I said in the comments to scold people who say such things. I feel dirty, yet proud.

    • TommyLawlor

      I didn’t have anyone specific in mind. Just had a couple of things that stood out as I typed the post.

      As your punishment, no Funyuns as a bedtime snack.

  • Greg M

    Here’s my two cents:

    Vick and Foles are currently splitting reps; the reps are dead even or Foles has taken just a bit more with the 1s. Does that tell us anything?

    – Vick is by far the best athlete of the 3 legitimate QBs.
    – Vick has the strongest arm.
    – Vick has the most experience.
    – Vick is a proven leader in the locker room (not saying Foles/Barkley can’t do this, but wouldn’t call it proven yet)

    So, given the above traits (which I think most Eagles fans would agree with), why would Chip Kelly, a coach who preaches efficiency, have Vick splitting reps with Foles?

    There is only one conclusion: Kelly views Foles as the better passer.. and I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought Foles was much better as a passer then Vick. Yes, I know: Competition, nothing is given, win the day. Is Dennis Dixon in with the 1s?

    One angle that hasn’t been talked about too much is how beloved Vick is both in the Eagles locker room and around the league. Chip Kelly, being the smart guy that everyone thinks he is, would probably want to tread carefully and not stir up a huge controversy both within the team and from the media by crowning Foles in the middle of OTAs.

    Barring a poor preseason (or a tremendous showing by Vick) I believe Nick Foles will be under center against the Redskins on MNF. I’m not saying that’s a good or bad thing, just what I think will happen.

    • aub32

      I don’t know if that logic stands up. DJax has been reported as taking many reps with the 2s and 3s. Does that mean he’s a poorer route runner or pass catcher? I don’t think so. Chip may just be trying to prove a point. I don’t think we can infer what Chip believes at this point. He may already know who he wants starting at every position, but wants the “open competition” to bring out the best in everyone. He is making a lot of changes to how things have been done. It’s probably easier to have players buy into those changes if they don’t feel there job is secure. I’m not suggesting that the QB competition isn’t real. I just think you’re making a lot out of the fact they are competing. Much better passer? Foles is still having problems completing passes against air.

      • A_T_G

        “There were times when I was going with the threes, times when I was going with the twos, things like that.”

        To me, that doesn’t read like “many reps” and it certainly doesn’t read like the situation Vick is in.

        • aub32

          Call it what you want, but it was enough to get DeSean to go have a one on one with CK. The only difference is the QB battle is more highlighted. I have seen several fans on this and other sites express Vick’s frustration may be because he’s nervous Foles may be a legitamite threat. What if it’s the exact opposite. Vick has seen much more of Foles tan the media, who let’s face it have been in love with Foles since preseason of last year. Anything they can bring attention to in an effort to make the race seem closer will definitely generate click for their pages. Vick may know he’s better than Foles and just wants the reps. This is the problem with so many people reading into so little. At this point anyone can make a case for anything.

          • GEagle

            Desean was taking reps with twos and 3’s at the beginning. I could be wrong, but I think that stopped being the case when Desean got a better grasp of the offense..ATleast I haven’t seen anyone report Desean not being on the first team during last weeks camp.

      • atb124

        “Foles is still having problems completing passes against air.”

        I’m guessing this is based on Ranann’s comment that Foles has overthrown some deep balls this spring.

        If I’m right, then twisting that into “having trouble completing passes against air” is a complete mischaracterzation of what Ranaan was reporting.

        In context, you’re using this comment to refute Greg’s theory that Kelly views Foles as a better passer. You’re refuting this by claiming that Foles has been inaccurate** while ignoring that by the reports we’ve been reading, Foles is completing passes at around an 80% clip and a good 10% more often than Vick.

        Therefore, if Foles is having trouble completing passes against air, Vick could only be characterized as having no idea where the ball is going when it leaves his hand. Obviously, I don’t believe either of these things are true.

        **I think translating “haivng trouble completing passes against air” to “innaccurate” is a pretty reasonable translation.

        • aub32

          Please direct me to whatever you read that said Foles has been 80%. This is the problem with so many making so much of 2nd hand accounts. Not to mention, we don’t know the context of all those plays. In one series Foles throw 2 near picks then a bomb TD. Does that make him deadly accurate? I brought up the point about him being inaccurate deep because that was the knock last year and it doesn’t appear to be fixed. It can’t just be glossed over. He has problems throwing deep. You taking it a step further by saying Vick has no idea where the ball is going just further proves how dismissive many Foles’ supporters are of any criticisms he gets simply because he’s the shiny new toy many want to save the franchise and be our Tom Brady.

          • atb124

            That was from Jordan Raanan’s recaps over at NJ.com. Credit to GEagle for providing the link over there. I can’t get to that website from where I am now, So I can’t copy and paste the link. It’s not hard to find though.

            For minicamp, he charted Foles at 23/27, 23/26, 19/25 for a total of 65/76 – 83.33%

            He charted Vick at 19/24, 14/22, 17/26 for a total of 50/72 – 69.44%

            So the difference was actually 13.89%, which is more than I orginially said.

            re: Vick has no idea where the ball is going, did you not read the very next sentence?

            This is not an argument for one quarterback or the other. Seriously. I’ve done that so much that I’d fear for my reputation if I thought I had one. This is strictly a disproof of your statement that I originally quoted.

            EDIT: “I brought up the point about him being inaccurate deep” – You did not mention deep your original post. That would be a completely different conversation that would end up the same way the overall conversations should be ending up about this time of year; We really don’t know and we’ll have to wait until we see them play in a game.

      • Greg M

        I could be making a lot out of nothing — however, regarding the point on DeSean: It’s been reported that he was relegated to the 2s and 3s because he wasn’t doing what Chip wanted him to do. Chip wants all the WRs to know all of the routes, not just ‘their’ routes. DeSean, by his own admission, didn’t know them and got demoted.

        Once he got back in the playbook and did what he was told to do, he’s back with the 1s.

    • Adam

      It’s important to note that the two areas that Chip values the most in a QB (Decision making and not turning the ball over/taking sacks) are the two areas Vick has struggled with the most throughout the career. Not to mention being able to play a full season.

  • HipDaDip

    sort of related… Tommy, what do you think about the tweets from Leonard Weaver that the team is less united than it seems? http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Leonard-Weaver-a-bit-worried-about-Eagles-team-unity.html
    All the players I’ve seen interviewed seem to be buying in fully. Think Weaver has some inside info? Could this refer to Vick’s comments about naming a starter? What is a horse shoe? Are there horse socks?

    • TommyLawlor

      Saving that for a post.

      • A_T_G

        You are working on a post on horse socks?

        • Gary

          ‘Bout damn time he gives the fans what we’ve been craving.

          • A_T_G

            Wait, he is writing about horse socks AND sending us all Funyuns?! Is Tommy angling for the Pulitzer?

    • MediaMike

      Did Weaver get this info from Jeff McLane’s “source” in Cleveland?

  • McMVP

    I think Socrates knows Foles is the best option at this time…he used his own Socratic Method to determine this…

    • TommyLawlor

      Probably better than the Lawlor Method…

      “Get me another PBR while I finish guessing.”

      • A_T_G

        Eh, that’s still more reliable than that of the overlooked philosopher Ruthiford B. Rhythm.

        • TommyLawlor

          Well done.

      • GEagle

        You can always go the typical Philly media route:
        Throw a bunch of crap at the wall, eventually something will stick lol

  • MediaMike

    I tend to go overboard on Vick due to the fact he represents an inferior brand of football at this point. The non-stop turnovers, holding the football for long periods of time, and constant injuries lead me to see Vick as a dead-end.
    Also, playing Vick increases the chances of having read-option take place; which I’d rather not see our team use. I hate that system because of it’s JV / gimmick / flavor of the month type nature. The use of Foles or Barkley, although neither may ever be a good NFL QB, will make sure that Chip Kelly uses an NFL appropriate system that incorporates his ideals; i.e. how the Patriots do it.

  • GEagle

    I’m Done PROJECTING what a veteran of over a decade might one day become. After 10 years of playing time, I reserve the right to stop projecting, and judge you based on what you have been…which is NOT VERY GOOD. 7 good games in the past 5 years. Yes I believe Foles will win this competition..But so what? That is my choice.

    What I find interesting is that it seems bringing Vick back was the driving force behind bad ticket sales. I’m baffled as to how you can still get 3 seats in a row for the KC game. So many fans said they are waiting to find out that Vick won’t be the QB before they buy their tickets..
    ..
    I hate that they brought Vick back. hate it! Turn the page please!

    • A_T_G

      Honesty, that last part might be best for everyone. The comments that spur inappropriate reactions are the ones hat express an obviously biased opinion repeatedly and with absolute certainty.

      For you and for Shah8 the competition is over, if there ever was one. We all get that. Telling us that one QB is worthless and the other has things all wrapped up, yet again, does not advance the conversation and only encourages equally certain opposing views.

      • GEagle

        Saying that a competition is wrapped up, and saying what you THINK will happen are two very different things!!!!

        • CrackSammich

          Dude, it’s not your opinion that gets you in trouble. It’s your tone.

          • GEagle

            Tone? I think trying to interpret the tone of a man that you have never in your life spoken to is foolish!!!! So how about you read the words, and be rational enough to take into context that everything is a damn oppinion unless you see someone that is stating inside information. You might not agree with my oppinion, but you can count on the fact that I ATleast took 5 minutes of time to put some thought and research behind it..and considering, I just debate football, and you will never once see me just attack someone personally for no damn reason, so their are plenty of Bigger CUNTS to fry on the internet

          • GEagle

            Wouldn’t you say it’s a little foolish to try and interpret the text tone of someone you have never in your life spoken to? How about you leave the tone guessing alone, read the words, and take into context that everything is just a hypothesis..

          • atb124

            Caps, expletives and exclamation points transmit quite a bit of tone.

          • atb124

            Caps, expletives and exclamation points transmit quite a bit of tone.

        • A_T_G

          I guess I would question your reason for posting.

          If it is to have a discussion with other fans, tone is important.

          If it is to make your opinion public in hopes of declaring victory if you turn out to be right, we got it.

          If it is in hopes that saying something loud enough and often enough makes it true, the world doesn’t work that way.

          If it is in hopes of sparking an emotionally-charged argument, I think the point of Tommy’s post was that this isn’t a forum where that is welcome.

          Consider your audience. No one has commented on your spelling and grammar ( opinion has one p, character has one e, a lot is two words, capitals don’t belong randomly in the middle of sentences) because this place is special. People here read every comment with a certain level of expectation. You have some interesting insights and find some great tidbits, but the incendiary comments aren’t needed.

  • GEagle

    BTW, I’m recording a podcast with Dick Vermeil today, in which I will be focusing on his interpretation of all the Eagles changes and our 2013 season. if anyone can think of any interesting questions to ask, let me know before 11am. Thanks guys

  • Ark87

    words of wisdom from T-Law. Both articles were great by the way.

    In my ideal world Vick plays very well…and gets outplayed by Foles or Barkley. That would be better for the franchise. But honestly as long as we can get someone playing at a high level,I’ll be happy enough, regardless of who it is.

    At the other spectrum….if we can’t get anyone to play at a high level, I prefer we put one of the young guys in. See how they respond to game experience. There is room for growth there.

  • Tom33

    I will also always cheer for the Eagles QB, even if it were some mutated love child of Tony Romo, Tom Brady and Brett Favre. As far as Vick goes, while I don’t see how he lives every day, it seems like he turned himself around and I applaud him for that. Even his harshest critics would have to admit that he paid a steep price for his mistakes, a lot more than others who have made equal or worse transgressions.

    That said, as a QB, I have had enough fun watching him hold the ball until he gets hit from the back side, throw 3 or 4 picks in a game, and not realize that the same DB is going to blitz him every single time on a Tuesday night in December.

    If 4 years under the “QB Whisperers” didn’t fix him, I can’t see how a few months with Chip will. But if it does and he plays well, I will be cheering as loudly as anybody.

    • jshort

      The only Eagles starting QB I could not quite bring myself to root for, was (can’t even bring myself to use an adjective) Mike McMahon. I just watched in disbelief

  • bsuperfi

    The debates about who is going to/should start are fun, but I really like the broader approach Chip is taking. It seems like a portfolio approach to me. Clearly, the QBs have different ceilings in different areas and different current skill levels in these areas. There’s some serious variety going on. Even Dixon brings something to the table with his experience – he’s part of a QB portfolio that’s about building a program.

    In my gut, I like Foles the best. He reminds me a little bit of Roethlisburger with his size, ability to feel pressure, and move enough to complete a pass when things break down. After seeing him on that Gruden QB camp show, I also like his attitude. I think he has a high ceiling in areas that matter most to me. But there’s not enough data on him in the NFL, and the evidence seems positive but ultimately mixed. Given these reservations, I’d take the portfolio approach in June every time.

  • Jernst

    Tommy, I completely agree with everything you said and couldn’t agree more about the general discourse regarding the QB decision. However, if you really think people are being over aggressive in their comments, you sir, are an idiot and I hope you never procreate.

    • atb124

      This is the most worthless, idiotic awfullest post I’ve ever read. You should be banned. Every time I see your name above a post from now on I know not to even bother reading it. I can just make up something stupid, wrong and unfunny and insert it there. Same difference. You went way to easy on Tommy there.

      • atb124

        I agree with whoever downvoted this. Humor fail.

  • ACViking

    Re: QB Fights in the Locker Room

    T-Law:

    No other issue in sports creates this kind of internal division among fans of the same team than a QB controversy.

    I’m surprised a psychologist hasn’t written a Ph.D dissertation on the subject.

    This kind of passion doesn’t seep into disagreements about who should play safety or LG. Or RF for the Phillies. Or whether free agency changed professional sports for the worse.
    _______________

    That said, Eagles fans have two things no other team has that should keep the QB dispute in perspective.

    1. The greatest moment in NFL half-time history, when we booed Santa Claus at Franklin Field in December 1968. The man in the suit earned it. (Watch the beginning of “Miracle on 34th Street” and think Franklin Field.)

    2. A_T_G’s excellent analysis of how deep-snappers get all the beautiful women . . . with the evidence to prove it.
    _________________

    On a serious note, if QB controversies cause fans to get bent out of shape . . . imagine what it does to the players and the locker room.

    T-Law’s talked about this point, I think, in regard to Kelly’s “QB Competition.”

    Whatever happens, he has to have the locker room under control when it’s over and the season starts.

  • Buge Halls

    My worst fear is that the QB competition continues because so far, CK hasn’t seen one guy that can run the offense. No “cream floating to the top” as it were. Hopefully that will change when the pads go on and they hit the field at TC and in pre-season. People running for their lives away from large men trying to smash them into the ground tends to bring out the best in some athletes!

    Although, Vick is obviously not the QB of the future – maybe two more years left in his tank (IMO!!!). It simply makes more sense to me to start the young kid (whichever) and hope he gets experience. I have a feeling that Barkley will be in before the end of the season – he IS the only guy Chip drafted!

  • http://www.hazepiffbudweedcheeba/blazeituppleasepeacetocheeba.com micksick

    Nick Foles is our best QB.