When You’ve Got Opinions, Who Needs Facts?

Posted: June 6th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 92 Comments »

I’m going to talk about the national media and the Eagles QB competition. The point of this post isn’t to give my thoughts on the who is winning, but rather just the competition in general. I will write about the QB battle on Monday or Tuesday. I’ve got a bit of research to do in order to put everything into context.

Back to the national media for the time being. I read a lot of football articles and information. I spend way too much time on Twitter. I watch ESPN and the NFL Network on occasion. I see video clips from each network more than long shows, though. The bottom line is that I’m exposed to a lot of national opinions.

The feeling from the national media is that Michael Vick is the Eagles QB. There is no competition. Nick Foles might be backup material. Matt Barkley is the future of the franchise. Simple as that.

I’ve seen some very respectable fantasy football writers debating how early to take Vick in their drafts. I’m no fantasy expert (unless Katie Holmes and Megan Fox carrying me to the top of Mount Pudding counts), but it seems to me that spending a first round pick on a QB that isn’t guaranteed to even make the team is highly questionable. I was shocked to see smart guys having a discussion like this. Their argument is that Vick will light it up as a runner and passer in Kelly’s system.

Former NFL players are virtually all behind Vick.

Heath Evans, who appears to be a major idiot, predicted the Eagles would go 7-9 this year. I’ve got no issue with that prediction. His logic is what gets me. Evans assumes Vick has the job. He then predicted the Eagles would beat the Packers. Why? The Packers could not stop Colin Kaepernick in January so clearly there is no way they’ll stop Vick in November 2013.


Dom Capers and the Green Bay staff have focused on handling the read-option. They went to Texas A&M to learn everything they could. I didn’t have to look that nugget up. I knew they went. Why? I follow football. Evans is too busy saying dumb things to read some article and do some research. There is no guarantee that the Packers will be significantly better, but I would tend to bet they will.

Evans them said the Eagles would lose to the Vikings. He talked about how weak the Eagles run defense has been in recent years and that the team wouldn’t be able to handle RB Adrian Peterson. Ugh, again. We don’t run the Wide-9 anymore. Kelly has loaded up on big guys and the defense will focus on stopping the run. I’m not saying we’ll shut down Peterson. Few did last year. Had Evans said “Even with Philly’s defensive changes, they’re going to struggle with an elite RB”, I’d be fine. Instead, he is predicting 2013 on the past. Dumb.

The NFL Network had Willie McGinest and Solomon Wilcots recently discuss the Eagles. They both laughed off the notion of Vick not being the starter. They obsessed on his mobility. Vick can run. Chip Kelly is obsessed with running QBs so how could he not have the job? Well, except for the fact that Kelly has said all along he doesn’t need a mobile QB. As it appears now, 2 of the 3 QBs who could make the roster (Foles, Barkley) are not mobile. But why let logic interfere with media stupidity? The saddest part of this is that I like McGinest a lot and have high hopes for him as an analyst. Wilcots is up and down.  These guys are dumb. They’re just being lazy with these opinions. They’re guessing.

I do not know the context for the next quote, but I’ll share it anyway. Ignore if you like.  From Pete Roussel on Twitter:

Cris Carter: “Sal (Pal) is under some allusion that they (Eagles) can run a blur offense with Nick Foles.” Classic!”

I think Cris meant to say “delusion”, but you still get the point. Kelly must have fast players to run his offense. Foles doesn’t fit. You must be an idiot if you don’t see that.

Michael Vick may very well win the QB competition and be the starter this year. His arm strength and mobility are the key reasons that Chip Kelly had the Eagles bring him back.

The problem is that Kelly has said from Day 1 that there would be a competition. He’s made no secret of that. He hasn’t said “Mike is our starter for now”. Chip has pushed the notion that nobody has a job yet. Every player is trying to go out and win a spot. Chip has said this over and over.

The Philly media and other media who regularly cover the Eagles are listening and seem to get this. The national media is obsessed with Vick running the ball and Chip Kelly wanting a QB that can run the ball.

I understand how the national guys are connecting the dots, but they are doing so while ignoring statistical facts and Kelly’s own words. Would Kelly lie if he did covet a mobile QB? Maybe, but I don’t think he would go out of his way as Chip has done to sell the idea that he can win with any QB. He has made the Tom Brady reference a few times. If I had him, do you think I’d run him?

Those words ring hollow for Evans, Carter, McGinest, Wilcots and the other national guys. They know what they know and the facts be damned.

* * * * *

Vick might start to change that. He made some comments to the media today that will draw serious attention to the fact the Eagles are genuinely splitting reps. Heck, Foles may have more QB snaps this spring than Vick. The national guys will hear this story and go “Huh, that’s weird.”

Here is Vick admitting that splitting reps with the 1’s is tough on him.

If you don’t want the video, go here for Tim McManus’s write-up.

That will be a national story. Heck. Florio may have already planned 5 pieces just off of that interview.

The more Vick talks about his uncertainty and the competition, the more the national guys will should wake up. That’s when we’ll get the “What the heck is Chip Kelly thinking?” articles. Can’t wait.

* * * * *

Check out this Chip Kelly quote that Ryan Messick shared on Twitter:

Reporter “You run a lot of option, is it a fallacy that it can’t work?”

Chip: “Is it a fallacy that we run quite a bit of it? Yes.”

* * * * *

Geoff Mosher posted a story this afternoon that Vick wants Kelly to name a starter before Training Camp.

“Hopefully, Chip makes a decision before training camp and we won’t have to answer that question,” Vick said in an exclusive with CSNPhilly.com, “so we can go out there as quarterbacks and just focus on this season and not answer questions about competition every day.”

Uh, okay.  Then this odd sequence.

Asked if tension could mount between he and Foles as camp progresses, Vick said, “Yeah, but hopefully we’ll have an answer by then, so I’m not going to answer that.

“I won’t want to continue to answer those questions. I won’t continue to answer those questions until Chip makes a decision.”

Reminded that Kelly has frequently said no timetable exists for the coaches to make a decision, Vick said, “Then I’m not gonna answer any questions.”

Vick was asked at one point if he knew his answers were going on the record and he acknowledged that he did know that. Not the wisest answers from Vick. Kelly has said repeatedly that he won’t run the QB decision. It is truly strange for Vick to say this. Maybe he hasn’t been listening to the media.

Or maybe he’s only listening to the national media.

Chip isn’t giving the QB job to anyone. Someone will earn it. Chip doesn’t care about Vick’s highlights or NFL records. Chip wants to find the best QB for 2013. That could be Vick, Foles or Barkley. Dixon and Kinne are more essentially camp bodies.

Foles and Barkley understand the competition. I thought Vick did too, but now I’m starting to wonder if he really understood what the deal was. Well, he does now.

I don’t care who gets the job, I just need someone to step up and win it.


92 Comments on “When You’ve Got Opinions, Who Needs Facts?”

  1. 1 JulzPE said at 8:48 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    That would be the same Heath Evans who said Chip Kelly would be the worst hire in the history of the NFL. Keep up the good work, Heath. We’re all really impressed with how bad your analysis is.

  2. 2 ohitsdom said at 8:53 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    You’re a nice guy, Tommy. Too nice sometimes… Which is why I thoroughly enjoyed you ripping these national buffoons for their lack of logic. Great piece! Interesting to hear Vick’s public tone starting to change.

  3. 3 TommyLawlor said at 9:41 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Too nice? My Canadian readers think I’m too mean.

  4. 4 Ben Hert said at 9:16 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Canadians are not to be trusted. Look at their bastardization of our beloved game!

  5. 5 Zachary Kahn said at 10:38 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I’m the only true Eagles fan from Guelph Ontario and your perfect Tommy!

  6. 6 matthew Verhoog said at 8:55 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    (you other canadian reader) I don’t not think your too mean. Eh, btw Danny Watkins rocks

  7. 7 micksick said at 8:54 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    national media have always been dumb and lazy with their opinions, local guys can be as well. Seems like chip is keeping all the locals guys on their toes, almost forcing them to ask more informed questions. I like it.

    We need media guys to cover media guys, give them that same style of interviews after interviews, ask them “Why did you ask that question, and what was it you were trying to get accross by bringing that up?” “Was that fallacy question a fallacy within itself?”

  8. 8 PK_NZ said at 9:35 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    If you’d be put on a spot and asked about how do you think Buccaneers are doing or how the Titans depth chart is looking, then you’d probably come across generic and lazy…

    But then again, they’re getting paid to do this so they really should do their homework before giving their “opinions” on national television…

  9. 9 TommyLawlor said at 9:42 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    That’s the whole point. Do some research. All it takes is a few minutes and you can have a decent opinion.

  10. 10 Michael Winter Cho said at 11:23 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    On my ride home from work, some radio guys were discussing Vick. They didn’t assume he would be the starter, but did predict he would be cut if he didn’t end up being the started. Both of them also seemed to think that Vick finished out last season as the starter.

  11. 11 micksick said at 10:16 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    thats exactly what im saying, if they are getting paid to know then they better know lol..

  12. 12 Ben Hert said at 9:18 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Your last paragraph sounds like you’re talking about the great myth of journalistic integrity and oversight. Silly idealist.

  13. 13 micksick said at 2:36 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    yeah wouldnt it be funny tho

  14. 14 ohitsdom said at 12:06 PM on June 7th, 2013:


  15. 15 ACViking said at 8:56 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Re: Opinions are Nothing But Onions to be Peeled on X-Examination


    You’ve just elegantly demonstrated why cross-examination is the “Engine of Truth” in the American criminal- and civil-justice process.

    From the looks of your post, it seems you could have spent a good 3-4 hours with each of your “NFL Expert Witnesses” . . . peeling away layer after layer of their conclusory, factless statements.

    Damn, that’d be fun to watch.

  16. 16 TommyLawlor said at 9:50 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Dealing with readers/commenters has taught me to do my research and know what I’m talking about. If I am wrong on a subject, just admit it. The national guys think their opinions are more valuable than facts and research. Drives me nuts.

  17. 17 GEagle said at 5:50 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    “A MAN should never be afraid to change his stance or oppinion when presented with new information”- The Great Chael P. Sonnen lol

  18. 18 Patrick said at 7:34 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    “The speed of communications is wondrous to behold. It is also true that speed can multiply the distribution of information that we know to be untrue.”

    Edward R. Murrow

  19. 19 TheRogerPodacter said at 9:42 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    “The internet sure is a crazy place sometimes.” -Benjamin Franklin

  20. 20 Warhound said at 12:03 PM on June 8th, 2013:

    The true definition of an intellectual.

  21. 21 Stephen Stempo said at 8:59 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I’ve been saying this for months. Everyone keeps saying that sure chip hasn’t named a starter but we all know its Vick. To which I replied ” so you’re telling me chip Kelly is a liar@ and they’d look at me quizzically as if chip has never made the comment that its a competition or that he doesn’t need a mobile qb.

  22. 22 TommyLawlor said at 9:42 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    People hear what they want, I guess.

  23. 23 GEagle said at 6:38 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Its like, dont these fools stop and think for a second?…
    Chip would LOVE to know who is starter is today, but he clearly doesnt or he wouldnt be taking away so many valuable first team reps away from his starting QB. Every rep you take away from the starter is a rep he could have used to build his chemistry and Timing with the One’s..

    does anyone think that Chip was Happy to hear what Vick said? Vick opening his mouth yesterday was a really really bad strategic mistake on Vicks part(and no one better give me the “he was answering the questions asked of him” excuse). Chip talked a while back about how, if a QB cant handle a little camp adversity, how can he be thrown in front of 60k people at the Linc? You would have to think that Chip would like to see some more mental toughness then that out of his veteran “leader”…There is not 1 person who has been privy to watch the practices who has said that Vick is just on another level right now, and that there is no way Foles can touch him. So Vick is frustrated that he isnt the starter right now, and he has yet to come close to seperating himself from the pack? He cant seperate himself from Kids with No experience who dont have half the physical tools that he has? FBI and Accuracy will win this battle and that doesnt bode well for Vick IMO
    Just because, I “Think” what will happen is Foles wipes the floor with Vick, it doesnt mean that I wouldnt be thrilled to see 2010 Vick again. I just dont think he exsists..and hearing our so called Veteran leader talk like this, is a huge RED FLAG in my ever so humble oppinion

  24. 24 aub32 said at 11:40 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I disagree with a few things you said, but I want to touch on one. I think too many people are getting on Vick for not separating himself from the young guns. How was he supposed to do that before camp? The DBs aren’t even allowed to use certain coverages. Being able to zip passes into tight windows will be more difficult against press coverage, and arm strength may become a factor. He is learning the scheme at the same time as everyone else. So there’s no real way for him to have any advantage there. His biggest advantage over the everyone is negligible in practice as no one is actually going to try and hit the QB if he keeps a read option hand off. I think Vick at his best will be better than the other guys, but we will have to wait to see what separates him from the pack and if he can have the same grasp or better grasp of the system.

  25. 25 GEagle said at 2:30 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    I dont disagree with you at all, but I didnt do enough job of clarifying myself..
    Me personally, I believe this was a learning period and that Chip legitimately hasnt been looking at it as a competition yet. However, since Vick has been here, all he has done was talk about how he is ok with competing for the job, he is just keeping his head down, trying to get better every day. The moment camp ends he decides to light a fire, and pour gasoline on it? If you have been ok with competing, and now you are bitching about not knowing who the starter is, you obviously must feel that you have earned the job, or why would you be bitching now?
    Him wanting to know who the QB isnt even what bothers me. What bothers me is Mosher asked him if this uncertainty could cause resentment between him and Foles and he said YES! I have a MAJOR F’in problem with that! He then starts bitching about wanting to know the Job, Mosher couldnt even believe what he was hearing, gave Vick a chance to ammend his statement, and Vick defiently tells him to PRINT IT? Thats a smack in the face to our new HC trying to make a leap from College…
    And what really bothers me is the reasoning behind it. He Clearly see’s that there is a legit chance that Foles could possibly win inspite of the fact that he can run laps around him, and If Vick isnt going to win the job then he wants to ask for his release in Time to latch on with another team and compete for their job…
    He is 33years old, chances at starting in this league are dwindling. So I understand him from a Human Nature stand point..
    But From a FANS stand point, I respectfully reserve the right to NOT WANT that FRAUD ASS Eagle on our team! If Foles loses this job, he will be heartbroken. But Guess what, he will help Vick every chance he gets, He will still be an eagle, waiving the flag from the sideline cheering his teamates on…If Vick, doesnt win the job, he wont even want to be here…So, F OFF!!!!
    There is LITERALLY NOTHING Vick could do in 2013, short of winning a superbowl that would be more valuable to us going forward, then the example it sets a team trying to change the culture and start a new era of Eagles Football, then to CUT THIS DOPE the day after he made those comments!
    Sorry for the Rant. Just my humble oppinion. At worst He is selfish player that we dont want. At best he is just a Mental Midget…either way, WHACK HIM TODAY, and put the rest of this roster on Notice. Foles is gonna crush him in camp anyway. Might as well get a culture shock out of him and give VICK A CHANCE to start somewhere else

  26. 26 D-von said at 9:09 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Lol. Tommy you sound as aggravated as I was when I first started to post on your blog. That’s what I’ve been saying about sports media. They give out opinion as fact and then wonder why they were so wrong. And this is why people come to your site; they get real news.

  27. 27 Tom33 said at 9:11 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I’ve told a few fellow Eagles fans all spring that I don’t believe Vick will be on the roster on day 1 of the real season. I think he is an insurance policy, but turnovers, a lack of quick decision-making and virtually no “repetitive accuracy” will make him one of the experts’ “surprise cuts” before the season starts. If I am right, it would seem they are building for the future. If I am wrong, I hope it is because he plays too well in camp and preseason games. I’d love to have the Vick we saw that forced Kolb out, I just think the league figured out what was working and took it away.

  28. 28 D3Center said at 9:26 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I thought exactly the same thing about Vick not making the roster as soon as Barkley was drafted. This was clear evidence that Chip cares more about accuracy more than anything else and Vick has never been accurate.

  29. 29 jshort said at 11:10 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Think Vick is starting to feel the pressure, it is on him. Might he be looking for a way out of town, with his words. Dixon said, Chip won’t name a starter early. This is going to get interesting

  30. 30 Gary said at 9:12 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Yeah, I happened to hear Cris Carter say that on NFL Live today. Not 5 seconds later I saw that quote you mentioned from Chip about the option on Twitter. Was literally yelling at my TV.

  31. 31 PK_NZ said at 9:29 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Do we care that Vick comes across a bit arrogant or is that just how the media has twisted his comments? He does seem a bit delusional about the QB situation…

  32. 32 TommyLawlor said at 9:44 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Hard to say. You want your QBs confident. I don’t think Vick always communicates well. If I could talk to young players, I would beat it into their heads to really choose their words carefully. You can express one idea in a couple of ways and get very different reactions.

    Vick doesn’t help himself.

  33. 33 Neil said at 9:46 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I don’t know how much is arrogance or bewilderment. Vick hasn’t been in a QB competition his entire NFL career and possibly ever.

  34. 34 Midnight_Greenville said at 9:43 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I’m constantly amazed at how often the national media think they know more about the inner workings of Philadelphia sports than the locals. I remember criticism when Rich Kotite was fired. I remember criticism when Ray Rhodes was fired. Don’t get me started about the laziness of bringing out the snowballs at Santa reference. You’re absolutely right that it would take about 5 minutes of research to see that Chip has been entirely consistent this whole time regarding his system and QB’s. Hell, just go to Fishduck.com and the work is done for you. Makes you really appreciate sites like this, and local media like Sheil, Tim among others. I live in SC, but I only read sites with local knowledge. This is why.

  35. 35 Rick Navy said at 9:45 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Tommy, long time reader and fan but you clearly show in your articles that you do not want Vick starting and you want Foles starting over him.

  36. 36 TommyLawlor said at 9:48 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I was against the Eagles re-signing Vick. I made no secret about that. It isn’t personal. He’s just older and trying to make long term plans with his is complicated.

    It would be more convenient for a young guy to win the job, but I just want to see the team win. If Vick is that guy, fine. Foles would be fine. Barkley or Dixon. I live and die with the Eagles. 2012 was miserable. Just give me a QB that can win us games.

    If Vick wins the job this summer and plays well, I’ll be very happy. When he’s on his A-game, he is very fun to watch.

  37. 37 TheRogerPodacter said at 9:41 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    i think the opinion we all have taken here is “as long as someone WINS the job, we don’t care who it is.”
    personally, i like Foles. i’d like to see what he can do this year. but i accept that if vick clearly wins the job, he deserves it.

  38. 38 Mac said at 11:16 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Also a long time reader and fan. Wondering what gave you that impression. There are arguments for every side of this thing, and its my opinion that Tommy has hit most if not all of them in a way that is refreshingly unbiased.

  39. 39 ceedubya9 said at 11:51 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Tommy has said over and over that he doesn’t mind Vick being the starting QB…as long as he can actually proves that he should be the starter. Maybe he does have a preference for Foles over Vick. But it isn’t like that preference can’t be justified. Vick has had plenty of
    chances to be the longterm answer for the Eagles, but other than his 2010 season, he hasn’t done much to solidify his spot, whether that is mostly his own fault or the previous coaches/system in place.

    The guy isn’t getting any younger, and it is difficult place all your faith in an aging player that has only consistently shown flashes of being the main man. So, if Tommy is showing a bit more preference for the younger guy/s full of promise and room to grow and develop, then can
    you really blame him?

  40. 40 joe said at 9:55 AM on June 9th, 2013:

    What’s wrong with preferring a young player with tons of potential to an old player who gets injured every year?

  41. 41 dislikedisqus said at 9:47 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    E njoyed this a lot. Someday Vick and Heath will be talking heads together. Maybe October.

  42. 42 DJH said at 9:52 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I’m most interested in how Chip is handling this. Would a college player ever say such a thing? This is pretty much new territory for Chippah. He’s got a veteran staff he can consult with though.

  43. 43 Flyin said at 10:06 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I’ve read from people who know Chip, and they have said that he is a straight up, no b.s. guy. He says it as it is.

    Vick’s comments are sounding like he may want a ticket out of town. If not, he may be receiving one anyway.

  44. 44 Flyin said at 10:50 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Sound off…

    His comments really piss me off. Every freakin’ player has been positive, going with the flow. DeSean Jackson had his misunderstanding of what was going on, and dealt with it. It’s all good.

    The QB situation has been in the spotlight since day 1. Vick should know what the F the situation is… over and over Chip has said we have 3 months to evaluate and let the best man earn it .

    Maybe he needs to see how Trent Cole has addressed the media with his uncertainty with the team. Better yet, Trent should kick Vick in the f’ing ass for being a dumbass.

  45. 45 Flyin said at 11:14 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I do have to say I am amazed by Vick’s toughness. That is one key element of Chip’s evaluation. So he has that going for him. Foles is tough too, as the Ducks rocked him, he kept getting back up making plays.

  46. 46 Flyin said at 11:22 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Sometimes, I just chat with myself.

  47. 47 TommyLawlor said at 11:47 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I talk to myself all the time. I’ll only get scared when I start to ignore myself.

  48. 48 GEagle said at 10:04 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    @Flyin…tell the how you really feel!!!

    Vick’s toughness does not impress me, because too often it’s a stupid, unnecessary toughness that he could avoid…when you can’t stay on the field to say save your life, being tough, is stupid!!! I need this BONEHEAD to for once, be smart!!!

  49. 49 Dolores Guyer said at 9:23 AM on June 10th, 2013:

    There is physical toughness and mental toughness and you need equal amoutns of both to play the position of QB. I’m reminded of the comment Chip made when he referred to all players, but QB’s imparticular. When saying” they are like tea bags. You put them in hot water to see how strong they are” .
    Vick appears physically tough, though you have to question some of the decisions he makes in evaluating that toughness. But it does appear that his mental toughness is lacking if his recent mini melt down is any indication.

  50. 50 SteveH said at 10:14 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Little more on the situation, from an article on nfl.com by Gregg Rosenthal:

    “The CSNPhilly.com reporter showed Vick the quotes after he said them and reminded the quarterback that he was speaking on the record. Vick responded by asking the reporter to print his request that Kelly settle on a starter.

    Now that’s sending a message.”

  51. 51 ceedubya9 said at 11:56 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Hmm. I know the guy is a competitor, and that he believes he should be the starter, but he has to realize that he has been anything but a “franchise QB” the past few years. He has talent, but he also has some faults that he has to recognize. Being the vet that he is, some of the faults may not easily be corrected or changed, and this could cause him to lose out to a QB that may better be able to do what a QB needs to do for THIS new Eagles team.

  52. 52 CalSFro said at 10:37 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Mosh has an interview up on CSN wherein he says that Vick’s tone while giving these quotes was one of frustration. If that’s the case, I’d say it can’t bode well for he and Chip’s continued relationship. I mean, it’s always a bad idea to try and get inside someone else’s mind and guess at what they’re thinking. But, like Chip keep’s saying, it’s only early June. If Vick’s feeling the heat and/or frustration already then it’s tough to picture him suddenly becoming mentally tougher and dealing with it better as the pressure mounts over the next few months.

    It really is interesting to think that Vick has never been in a position like this before. He’s always just been so much more gifted than his opponents that bearing down and refining all the little things that it takes to separate yourself have never been a top priority. But it begs the question; why can’t he just answer all the questions about the QB battle with a, “No comment”?

  53. 53 A_T_G said at 11:27 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Or at least ” Next question.”

  54. 54 atb124 said at 11:56 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    Or how about something along the lines of what Foles said? Just focused on doing his job and whatnot.

  55. 55 A_T_G said at 12:14 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Yeah, that certainly would be best. I was referencing the TO circus show, wondering to myself if this will end with the equivalent of sit-ups in the driveway.

  56. 56 A_T_G said at 11:49 PM on June 6th, 2013:

    I wonder if Vick is starting to see the writing I the wall. Local media commenting on Foles accuracy, Foles completing a few long bombs, maybe some tone from the coaches as they speak to each QB.

    As a few have noted, Vick has never had to fight for a position before, maybe it is just the pressure getting to him a bit. But even including his return from prison, he has certainly never experienced the feeling of his best not being good enough. Mental toughness requires a certain stamina. Vick has shown that toughness during games, Weeks of seeing the rookie beat you into the building and that the guy who took your job last year might not be too slow after all and you are the only one to hit those damn bug wings is a whole different type of stamina. This is uncharted water and Vick might be starting to flounder a bit.

    Which will just draw the MSM sharks.

  57. 57 TommyLawlor said at 1:54 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    This is possible. I’m gonna write a post early next week and try to put all of this into context.

  58. 58 ohitsdom said at 12:14 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    If you could, I’d appreciate it if you could touch on what the situation would be if Foles does win the starting job. Is Vick automatically cut? Or is that dependent on how confident the coaches are in Barkley/Dixon as backups?

  59. 59 GEagle said at 10:07 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Vicks Eagles career is about as alive and well as the Stark Family at the Red wedding!!!

  60. 60 Tumtum said at 12:36 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Ahhh Tommy how can you like McGinest. He was part of the emperor’s forces I mean Billichick’s Pats that beat us in 04′! Not to mention imo he flopped to stop our no huddle from rolling them up (remember how the Birds did the no huddle before it was all the rage?) at one point in the game. He was surely just about to implode or explode or die.. it was hard to tell. Of course he was only out for one play. Okay okay I am a little foggy on this it could of been against another team but I don’t think so. It was right around their goal line.

    Anywho, Its pretty shocking to hear all of this from Vick now. I mean the battle hasn’t even started yet. Its a little alarming. I have come to respect Vick for his work ethic and desire. After his last two years diva Vick is not a welcome guy around these parts. I have been hoping for a really good QB battle that would result in a guy who could help us win THIS year. Could being the operative word there. Vick is needed as a part of that. If Vick takes him self out of it and pouts enough to spoil team chemistry it could all backfire.

    I have really actually sort of been leaning towards wanting Vick to win. Simply because if he wins its because he won’t be turning the ball over. If he isn’t doing that he could be a pretty darn good QB in a system that utilizes his strengths. Its seems like he might feel he isn’t doing quite as well as one or more of the other QBs. If this snowballs I just hope Chip won’t let it get out of hand.

  61. 61 TommyLawlor said at 1:59 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    McGinest did a good job of covering the Combine. Showed good potential as an analyst.

    He is a Pat and I’ll always hold that against him, but I try to give those guys a fair shake when they become broadcasters.

  62. 62 Mitchell said at 12:40 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Just think, a year ago all I had was espn when it came to the Eagles. I would watch for hours to catch a ten second blurb of incorrect info. Now I have a plethora of sites to visit including this one. Makes me realize how wrong the media is an how wrong we are about teams other than the eagles.

  63. 63 Iskar36 said at 12:46 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    The comments from Vick do trouble me a bit. Maybe I am reading into things a bit too much, but it certainly sounds like he would be upset if he ends up not being the starter. We talked a bit about whether or not he stays with the Eagles if he ends up being the backup, and I have believed that he stays unless Barkley proves he can be good enough to be a reliable backup. Having said that, in light of his comments, does this potentially lead to Vick being a distraction to the team if he doesn’t win the job? As an Eagle, Vick has handled himself very well and done a good job of handling the media, so I do say this recognizing that he has done a good job in the past of avoiding being a distraction. Still this comment just seems a bit out of character for Vick with the Eagles.

  64. 64 TommyLawlor said at 2:10 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Agree that the comments are out of character for Vick. That’s why I’m not going to make too much of them right now.

    I would think Kelly will talk to him and make sure they’re on the same page.

  65. 65 GEagle said at 3:17 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    He blatantly admitted that this will cause animosity between him and Foles..then publicly undermined a guy trying to shake the college coach label, who is trying to win the locker room and change the culture…I have such a problem with this on so many levels. Look forward to your breakdown of it next week

  66. 66 Dolores Guyer said at 9:47 AM on June 10th, 2013:

    Foles has been nothing short of supportive and effusive in his comments regarding Mike. That’s what is so hard to digest of Vicks blantant , “Yes, it will cause diissention between them” . Like it will be Foles fault, not his, if he continues to out perform him and be the cause of the pressure.
    As for Vick hoping for a named starter before camp It’s almost like VIck is wanting Kelly to call off the hounds, (competition) so that he can relax and be himself.
    The problem with that is, that Kelly is pushing Vick to not be his usual self. But for some reason Vick doesn’t seem to understand that is what is behind the competition (for all of them) as well as seeking the best for the job of starter.
    As a poster on the EMB said ,”competition can bring out the best in people, or the worst in them”.

  67. 67 Neil said at 1:30 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Unless this is the end of these sorts of comments, Vick’s already a
    distraction. I’ve believed from the beginning that Vick would not be
    able to tolerate being a backup just based on what I thought of his
    personality. It’s evident from these comments he can’t tolerate not
    getting all the reps with the 1s. Venting to a reporter is serious.
    Unless Vick’s stupid, he knows it’s the most futile, self-defeating way
    to have his gripes addressed. He’s so frustrated he makes such openly
    disrespectful comments as to have the reporter make sure he knows (and, I
    think, implicitly give the option to retract) that his words are being
    recorded. And Vick just gives him snark and reiterates more firmly his
    position. At one point he says there will be conflict between him and
    another player.

    What is the Eagles’ brass’s reaction to this
    going to be? Making demands of the coach out of frustration to the
    press is flirting with insubordination. It shows disrespect to the
    organisation by failing to keep problems in house. It demonstrates that
    the player believes he lives in a culture where he’s powerless and his
    voice doesn’t matter, or else he would have spoken to Chip about this,
    not a reporter.

    That point about culture is the opposite of what
    Chip has said (“open lines of communication”) and how other players have
    acted (Desean). This fact leads me to the following conjecture, which I
    know is conjecture. Michael Vick right now is having to come to terms
    with the fact that he might be, maybe, not a star QB in the NFL any
    more. This feels something like death. Look at his situation. He’s
    always been starter, except when he got out of prison and had horrible
    conditioning and had to reearn a coaching staff’s trust. That’s all
    behind him; the time before restablishing himself feels like a different
    life, honestly. Besides the one situation with obvious circumstances,
    he has always been given the starting job. And now he’s actually in a
    competition with this Foles kid, some midround pick? And, truth be
    told, he’s not entirely sure he’s winning?

    So on the one hand he
    knows what he’s been told is true. He knows that the coaches are
    splitting his reps with Foles because he’s in an honest to god fight for
    his football life. But he can’t handle it. It’s almost driving him
    insane. So he oscillates between the truth and the idea that, hey, he
    is winning, Chip just needs to stop with the charade; or Chip was lying
    all along but is just trying to make a statement; or something else.
    Which comes out to the reporter because it wouldn’t fly with Chip, Chip
    would just say he was telling Michael the truth, or that Chip needs to
    see that Michael is better with his own eyes.

    So if what Michael
    says is true and he is going to become a tumor, he probably won’t even
    make it to the preseason, either traded or cut. The part where getting rid of him gets tricky is if this kind of behaviour doesn’t turn off most of his teammates to him, if they still think of him like the national media does. I don’t have a strong opinion on how that would go.

  68. 68 TommyLawlor said at 2:07 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    You’re assuming the worst here. And that is possible.

    But this could also simply be Vick talking to a reporter, getting caught in an uncomfortable moment and then panicking a bit with his follow-up comments.

    Vick hasn’t caused any problems since arriving in 2009. He was the #3 QB that year. He started off as the backup in 2010. Vick got along very well with McNabb and Kolb, guys he was competing with.

    If Vick has done the right thing for 4 years, i think we need to be careful about making too much out of a couple of comments.

    If Vick continues saying these types of things, then we’ve got a pattern of behavior and I’ll agree that he’s at fault. For now, let’s take this slow.

  69. 69 TommyLawlor said at 2:07 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    You’re assuming the worst here. And that is possible.

    But this could also simply be Vick talking to a reporter, getting caught in an uncomfortable moment and then panicking a bit with his follow-up comments.

    Vick hasn’t caused any problems since arriving in 2009. He was the #3 QB that year. He started off as the backup in 2010. Vick got along very well with McNabb and Kolb, guys he was competing with.

    If Vick has done the right thing for 4 years, i think we need to be careful about making too much out of a couple of comments.

    If Vick continues saying these types of things, then we’ve got a pattern of behavior and I’ll agree that he’s at fault. For now, let’s take this slow.

  70. 70 Neil said at 2:19 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    That’s all reasonable. Even if what I said is true, Vick could use this as a learning moment too.

  71. 71 McMVP said at 1:37 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Great, great write up on the national media perspective…it was driving me crazy too. Especially during this time of year you would think these guys could look up a past article or two…or dig deeper themselves. But the name ‘Vick’ is what they know…they only know Foles because he played a bit last year….and that they time his 40 using a sun dial. To them that tells the tale. Limited research = limited understanding.

    I’m happy that Vick is digging his own grave with his mouth. I know you won’t say as much, but I sense you feel the same.

    This can not possibly be sitting well with Chip.

    When I think of Vick’s statements today this comes to mind:


  72. 72 GEagle said at 7:36 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    When the pressure is on, your true colors come out and it becomes tough to hide what you are really made of. What Vick needs to understand, is YES much of this competition is about Chip wanting to be thorough and find the right man, but some of this is probably designed to put extra pressure on the QB and see how they handle it, and Vick has officially started to crack. He could recover from yesterday, but Chip certainly took a mental note of yesterday..If Im Foles and I see this, I smile

  73. 73 GEagle said at 5:43 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Attaboy Tommoy. GET EM!!!!
    The pathetic National media is making me ease off the local guys. When fans in comment sections put more research into their oppinion, then friggin well paid analysts, its a joke. These guys have dream jobs. I always rant about why reporters dont take the time to do research anymore. It has honestly come to a point that I dont watch national analyst. I dont watch sportscenter, and I rarely watch NFL network…
    If you are a fan of this team, you stick to the Ty-laws, Didinger, Cossel, Jimmy Kempski…and the rest you research for yourself..
    Please tell me how this dope heath evans should still have this platform after the crap he said. How has Jason LaConfora not had to answer for his irresponsible BS aimed at howie? I always try to keep a mental note of incompetance. I collect Eagles intel all week long, I dont need my oppinion muddied up by fools who obviously dont take 5 minutes to research what they are talking about.,.

    Just cause everyone is entitled to an oppinion, doesnt mean you cant go above and beyond and have a decently informed and educated oppinion

  74. 74 Mike Flick said at 8:03 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    It does point out a few general problems:
    1) National guys need to understand 32 teams instead of 1. Honestly if I had to say something about the Bengals I would bring up Jeff Blake and Carl Pickens.

    2) Just because you were able to rush the QB or had a great hands doesn’t mean you can do the research and come up with logical conclusions and make valid predictions based off of that data.

    3) Some of those guys have friends in the league, guys they like and don’t like. Regional biases and rivals from their playing days.

    4) Some of the traits to be on TV include appearance, voice, connections. Ability to research is not one of the tops of the list.

    5) There is much better information out there from other sources. Before they got those internets going the quantity of Eagles information I got was reading clips from national papers. Now I know the life history of training camp bodies. Our bar of expectation has definitely been raised.

  75. 75 aub32 said at 8:07 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Tommy, I really don’t get your shock to national opinion that Vick will be the unquestioned starter. Vick moves the needle. Outside of us in Philly, who really wants. to hear about Nick Foles. It’s not like he did anything close to what his peers did last season. The read option is also getting a lot of attention, as there were 3 QBs out of the possible 4 that run it consistently to make the playoffs last year. No one wants to see Foles running the read option, (I know Kelly doesn’t have to run the read option) but I’m sure fans of football everywhere want to hear about how people think Vick will do in this offense.
    Lastly, I think you are being a bit hard on the players. Of course they are going to side with Vick. These players are retired and most likely played or prepared for Vick since his days in Atlanta. Very few players last double digit seasons in the NFL, and even fewer are as electrifying as Vick after a 12 year career. He has earned that respect, and former players aren’t going to believe he can be usurped by a second year player who went a paultry1-5 last season.
    Also, NFL logic has for the most part favored the veterans in these competitions. Outside of Wilson last year, which if you remember brought a lot of criticism early, it is very common for the young guy to sit, at least to start the season. Rodgers sat behind Farve. Locker sat behind Hasselbeck. Ponder sat behind McNabb. All of these guys were taken in the 1st and known to be the future of the franchise. Compared to Foles, some no name picked in the 3rd, the odds don’t seem to be in his favor to those not paying close attention.

  76. 76 TommyLawlor said at 8:57 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Fair points, but if you are paid to be an expert….you can’t be this wrong. I don’t expect these guys to know the Eagles inside-out, but Chip Kelly has said over and over…”competition”. All they heard was…Mike Vick is fast and will be my QB.

  77. 77 aub32 said at 9:42 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    We disaree here. I don’t think they’re opinion is solely based on “Vick runs fast”. It’s not like Vick is competing against Wilson or even Tannehill. Foles did very little to garner national attention. Look at his prime time games. Against the Panthers, it was all about the yards and fumbles BB racked up and in Cincy he caused the first of infinity billion trillion turnovers. The ones that followed weren’t on him, but compared to Vick beating the Giants on a Sunday night, there doesn’t appear to be much reason for them to think Vick won’t win the competition. I don’t think they’re dismissing what Kelly says about competition. I just think they can’t imagine Vick losing it based on the equity he’s built up over the course of a 12 year career. And when being asked to predict something as inane as what will be the record of the every NFL team before training camp even begins, you can’t really answer that until you have picked which horse you will back as the starter of the team.

  78. 78 Iskar36 said at 10:51 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I agree that CK is treating things like a true competition between Vick and Foles, but saying “competition” over and over doesn’t always mean true competition for all coaches. There are plenty of coaches who provide simple lip service when they say they will have competition, but in reality they already have a strong idea who will be the starter. All you have to do is look at our own beat reporters early in the camps. For the first 3 or 4 practices (some of them still keep close track of things), the reporters would be so focused on the number of snaps either QB got or who started off with the first team and who got the most reps with the first team. Granted, if the “experts” did a little extra digging they probably should be able to pick those types of things up, but to me, especially coming from the AR, the coach saying something repeatedly holds very little weight until he demonstrates the words he says are more than lip service.

  79. 79 Anders said at 8:23 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    When I saw the interview, I just thought Vick come off as super annoyed by the media constantly asking about who will win the QB job, when nobody knows. You can see Kelly who is a billion times better with the media already been sick about depth chart questions and his job isnt even on the line, so I think it is understandable that Vick is also sick to the bones about the same questions

  80. 80 aub32 said at 8:26 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I agree. I think people may be reading too much into his comments. Who among us doesn’t want job security sooner rather than later, and I’m willing to bet Vick still gets significantly more attention than Foles. So it’s no surprise he’s frustrated.

  81. 81 GEagle said at 10:14 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I Dunno man…the comment about him and Foles potentially having a bad relationship…and telling a reporter to go print those comments…that’s over the top, and uncalled for no matter how frustrated you. Vick knows this city…all he had to do was get through one more round of interviews before a 6week break, and he had to pour gasoline on a Philly Bonfire on his way out the door? For a veteran who knows how this city works, it’s inexcusable, especially for our leader…F Vick!!

    he isn’t an EAGLE. he is only an Eagle if it suits him as a starting QB. This man, won’t want to be an eagle if he is a back up, sO I don’t want him as our starting leader…All the experience, all the arm strength, and all the speed and he hasn’t even come close to separating himself from mid round picks? If you aren’t willing to sit on the bench, help the starters, cheer your teammates on, then you aren’t a F’in Eagle!!! GET HIM OUT NOW!!!!!! get him away from Foles and Barkley as fast as you can

  82. 82 aub32 said at 10:40 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Whoa whoa whoa young grasshopper. First let me remind you that this is a business. Dawkins left when he didn’t get what he wanted. Should we say F him because he wouldn’t make whatever sacrifice necessary to stay in Philly? Be real. Vick is 32 and still has the physical ability to play for at least 3 more years. And though we may question whether he’s better than Foles, I don’t think it’s a question for reasonable fans that Vick isn’t better than at least 1 QB of the other 32 teams. This isn’t about loyalty, it’s about the man’s livelihood. If this QB competition did not go in his favor, sitting on the bench does nothing for him going into FA next year, but catching on with another team and having a good showing, could put food on the table for him and his family. This isn’t you or I. Vick will have to retire before 40. Making NFL money for a few more years will help him maintain a good life style as he transitions to making significantly less over his next 40 years.

    Going back to his comment, I would need to hear the wording of the question and exactly how he responded. I am not trying to overly defend Vick, but I know I and many others sometimes use “yeah” as a transitional phrase rather than actually meaning yes. To my knowledge, Vick gets along with all his teammates and has sucked up a lot of crap given to him by the fans media, and even the gameplan last year. I think we should slow down before piling on him over some frustrated remarks he made to a question he was asked a thousand times before.

  83. 83 GEagle said at 2:58 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    I dont disagree with a single word you wrote. But I do not need to go back and hear anything. I know exactly what he said, I couldnt believe it that I read it like 5 times lol.

    Taking into account, the human element, I completely UNDERSTAND if Vick wants to ask for his release, but I reserve the right as a fan coming off a 4-12 team, who knows a guy probably wont stay healthy, and probably wont win a superbowl..TO WANT HIM GONE! For me, coming off a 4-12 year, new coach, new scheme THIS YEAR is ALL about just laying a strong foundation and a United group of men, who will sacrafice and do whatever to one day bring a parade to this city. If Vick wont be happy making 3.5Mil to sit on the bench this year, then I reserve the right as a fan TO WANT HIM GONE!..Of course what I want means nothing, but so far I do believe that we have been building this thing the right way, and I dont care who the player is, No one is worth compromising that, especially a fragile 33 yr old coming off 2 terrible seasons, who is LUCKY to be earning Millions of dollars, because his play hasnt warranted Millions of dollars in YEARS. After two years of slope, he should be grateful for the veteran minimum and that someone would even give him an honest shot at competing

  84. 84 Dolores Guyer said at 10:08 AM on June 10th, 2013:

    His opinion won’t change because he is a Vick fan and like Vick’s play on the field, so is his comments to the media …not his fault! It will always be that way for Vick when it comes to his fan base.

  85. 85 Mitchell said at 8:45 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Now I just heard Chris Carter it was ridiculous for DJax to run with the twos. Carter said Kelley needs the receivers…. No shit. If someone doesn’t step up there is always a player ready.

  86. 86 Mac said at 1:21 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    The man was a great football player. On the other hand, I’ve heard more intelligent comments about football while substitute teaching in 2nd grade than anything I’ve heard out of Chris Carter.

  87. 87 barneygoogle said at 9:36 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    I think there is a good case for Barkley being the guy Kelly has his eyes on. This offense will show a lot of looks w/ substitutions. The QB must thoroughly learn every detail of the offense, and: 1. get the guys lined up in the right places on every play (no small thing), 2. read and see the mismatches BEFORE the ball is snapped, 3 deliver the ball on target before the defense can react and adjust.
    Does that sound like Vick?

  88. 88 aub32 said at 10:17 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Vick has done that on the NFL level though. Is he the best at it? No, but to just assume that Barkley can be masterful as these things when he hasn’t taken a snap is silly. We all know that the NFL is significantly faster than the college game. What makes you and other fans so confident that a rookie who ultimately no team decided was worth a pick before the 4th round will come in and best Vick or Foles in these aspects in 2013

  89. 89 barneygoogle said at 11:52 AM on June 7th, 2013:

    Read what I said–not what you think I said. I’ve followed the Eagles since Sonny Jurgensen was the QB. Kelly seems very effusive on Barkley’s work ethic and learning the offense + this offense is about setting up mismatches; it’s a chess game.
    All means nothing if the QB doesn’t make the right decisions– despite Vick’s having the best raw tools. Vick’s comments indicate he can’t even make the right pr decisions under the awesome blitz of the phila media…not what you want from your QB. Yes, Barkley is in the mix to start. Its all about pre season performance, not pretty spirals.

  90. 90 GEagle said at 2:42 PM on June 7th, 2013:

    you know whats Funny? We crucified Cary Williams, but I would take his approach over what Vick did ANYDAY! Cary might have let us down but he damn sure isnt complaining about running behind curtis Marsh..Cary was like “we talkin bout PRACTICE”, when Camp comes around, Im gonna show you what time it is,.Hope Curtish Marsh is enjoying the one’s because Cream will rise to the Top fool! Maybe I paraphrased that a tad bit too much, but you catch my drift. I would take that approach ALL DAY over an insecure, mental midget “Leader” scared that he wont win the job!!!!

  91. 91 Scott J said at 5:37 PM on June 8th, 2013:

    Here’s what keeps bothering me about Vick and him running – he takes too many hits and will get injured. He’ll never make through the season. I think purposely running a QB in the NFL is stupid.

  92. 92 Nicholas Disilvestro said at 6:04 PM on June 10th, 2013:

    These guys need to call a proctologist to have their heads removed from their butts. All they are going on is his name, and 10 years worth of occasional sportscenter highlights from him. They haven’t watched him the past two years (at least not like us die hards have). They havent put the time in to see the mental mistakes a guy over a decade into his NFL career shouldn’t make. I doubt they were still watching the Giants game when he got benched for Trent Edwards.

    They have no idea what Chips going to do, thats the beauty of it. I think only a handful of us remember Chip saying he will tailor his offense to the talent he has. They also might want to look at Bill Lazor statements about how much they value accuracy and consistency- two traits you dont equate with Mike Vick.

    Sorry for the rant but I am so frustrated. I really just might not listen to talk radio anymore.