Some Progress, But…

Posted: July 17th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 92 Comments »

There has been progress in the coverage of the Eagles QB competition.

Check out this video from the NFL Network. Willie McGinest shoots down the idea that Mike Vick is the “clear front-runner” for the QB job. McGinest talks about the fact that Nick Foles and Vick are having a real battle. But later in the segment McGinest says he still thinks Vick will win. I have no problem with that conclusion, but the way he says it feels almost like “This competition is legit (wink-wink)”.

Warren Sapp definitely thinks Vick will win. As Sapp points out, he used to have to chase Vick around and that was tough. The irony of Sapp’s comment is totally lost on him. He’s been out of the game since the end of the 2007 season. The last time he chased Vick around…December 2004. Yeah, not much has changed since then.

I guess I should be happy that they at least acknowledge there is a competition.

* * * * *

DeSean Jackson went on ESPN’s First Take and talked about the Eagles. DeSean admitted that there might have been a bit more to his benching that we first heard. DeSean talked about the fact that in the past he was purely the Z-receiver. In Kelly’s offense, he has to play a variety of spots. We had heard this already, but DeSean made it sound as if this was more of a problem than previously reported.

DeSean makes a comment about going to see Kelly and saying that he’s an established player and Pro Bowl receiver. I’m sure that went over like a lead balloon. It is the very thing that Kelly detests. Your past is irrelevant if you aren’t doing your job well today. The good news is that it sounds like DeSean and Kelly did get on the same page.

When pressed for his opinion on the QB job, DeSean said he thinks Vick will win. One of the reason’s he cited was Vick’s confidence. I don’t recall Kelly placing an emphasis on confidence in any of his coaching clinic lectures or interviews.

* * * * *

Jeff McLane wrote about Kelly and his thoughts on pre-snap reads, something that is important.

“It’s huge understanding what the defense is doing, conceptually what we’re trying to get accomplished,” Kelly said last month. “There are certain run plays we can run versus any look, so the pre-snap read isn’t that important.

“But there are certain things – some in the run game and a lot in the pass game – where you need to understand what you’re going against.”

Vick has been erratic in this area. Against Dallas, he’s done well with pre-snap reads. There have been other games where he looked lost. The Vikings game in 2010 was bad. It seemed like Vick was constantly confused by the fact Antoine Winfield was blitzing over and over.

While Vick isn’t great in this area, he is the most experienced of the QBs. That does give him an advantage. Foles and Barkley are young guys that have a lot to learn in every facet of the game.

* * * * *

Finally…back to DeSean. Check out his new video. NSFW.

Football angles aside…do you like it? I’m not a rap guy so a song has to really jump out at me for me to like it.  This song didn’t grab me.


92 Comments on “Some Progress, But…”

  1. 1 SleepingDuck said at 11:47 PM on July 17th, 2013:

    To be fair to DeSean, he later went on Sportscenter and was asked the same question about the QB job. He once again said he thinks Vick will win it, but added that Foles or Barkley can still win it too.

  2. 2 TommyLawlor said at 12:06 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    And GJ KINNE???

  3. 3 austinfan said at 11:53 PM on July 17th, 2013:

    National media stuck on the same theme that many Eagle fans bought when Kelly was first hired, that Oregon’s success was built on the read option thus a mobile QB is required.

    It’s become obvious that the read option at best is a minor portion of Kelly’s offense, that the key is the inside and outside zone blocking that sets up his playbook. Thus the QB’s real job is making quick decisions, whether to hand off, keep and run or keep and pass, and when he passes, to release the ball quickly and hit his receivers in stride, allowing them to gain YAC. Mobility and arm strength are far less important than decision making and accuracy.

    Now how does Vick fit this offense?

  4. 4 TommyLawlor said at 12:42 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    The strong arm and scrambling ability also get people’s attention.

  5. 5 austinfan said at 9:15 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    It’s like the dunk in basketball, makes all the highlight films, but the team that executes the backdoor play and plays good defense wears the rings, not the one with all the ESPN highlights.

    If Vick were to run Kelly’s offense correctly, he’d have very few highlight plays, because most of the time he’d be getting rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds and a WR or RB would be making the highlight play with YAC from a ball thrown in stride. If Vick is making a lot of highlight plays, it won’t be for long, because it means his decision making is out of whack (i.e., he’s holding the ball too long then taking off, or not pitching it to the RB on the read option).

  6. 6 GEagle said at 2:45 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Caplan talked abôut how because of the ability to get the ball out, he believes Foles is the front runner to start..He presented a decent argument in a video clip on CSN Philly…

  7. 7 Cafone said at 2:13 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    When the last time you watched the NBA? Because the team that makes all the highlight films IS the one wearing the rings.

    Sure, they play good defense too, but they aren’t exactly known for for their backdoor plays.

  8. 8 micksick said at 11:57 PM on July 17th, 2013:

    Desean can rap on beat but his rhymes suck,… hell a couple of his bars didnt even rhyme lol

  9. 9 shah8 said at 12:17 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Well…I knew that I’d see this reaction once I saw the pro football talk headlines.

    Sometimes, maybe…people really are laughing at philly’s media, and maybe…they might have cause.

  10. 10 TommyLawlor said at 12:41 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    The point is that the player who performs the best will win the competition. Could be Vick or Foles, maybe Barkley.

    Vick’s highlights and great moments don’t mean a thing to Kelly. That’s the stuff that the national media, especially former players, can’t let go of. Think about Sapp’s comment about chasing Vick.

  11. 11 shah8 said at 2:56 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Vick’s highlight do mean a thing. That’s why he was brought back. Moreover, Sapp is a lot older than Vick, which is why I didn’t take that seriously, by the time of Vick’s last year in Atlanta, Sapp was almost done.

    The blunt reality is that you guys keep touting a competition between a bona fide starting grade NFL QB and a career backup grade QB. There really isn’t a competition beyond the expectation that Vick keeps on his toes. Foles isn’t capable of credibly starting over the course of the season, and most national people see that. Vick might not be a *good* QB, and hey, he may go out like Favre’s last year in Minnesota and just be bad–that’s entirely possible to argue, and if there was an alternative on the roster, then hey, competition. This “competition”? For the benefit of the philly media, most likely. Again, Foles is not Kolb, or any other marginal starter. And really, if he was like Matt Moore, I think he’d have shown more moxy last year. The players know who will get their bread buttered, and if Foles *really* looked good to them, they’d be quite a bit less generic bland praise in comments to the media. More specific stuff, reminiscences of plays, that sort of thing.

  12. 12 Stephen Stempo said at 3:10 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Bona Fide? Vick’s about as Bona Fide as Mark Sanchez at this point.

    The thing about national reporters is that they are just that , national. As in they don’t specialize. They’re generic.

    You’re right Foles is probably better than Kolb.

    So tell me why would Kelly use this competition to benefit the philly media?

    I’m confused. So tell me why Foles couldn’t be a starter in the NFL? Because we’ve all seen how Vick seems unable to be anymore. Also do this without using the term “eye test.” Hard data is best. Maybe a comparison of first 8 starts statistics vs other rookie QB’s and how they panned out would be a good start.

  13. 13 Bdawkbdawk said at 8:54 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Maybe it’s as simple as the local guys take Kelly at his word and the national guys do not. Nothing wrong wih either conclusion at this point – it’d just be nice if the national guys stated that they are skepical of Kelly’s competition claims. I happen to believe Chip because the way he’s spoken and ran practices seems to substantiate his committment, but we haven’t seen anything yet. At this point, either camp could be correct.

  14. 14 Mac said at 9:51 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    At this point, Tommy’s got the crow in the oven. I’m going to enjoy watching Warren Sapp eat it.

  15. 15 Andy124 said at 8:59 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    The best part to me was:

    “This “competition”? For the benefit of the philly media”

    I’m not even going to pile on. Just leave that out there to and soak up the hilarity.

  16. 16 eagleyankfan said at 10:23 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I’m with you Stempo on this. Foles was green going into last year. Green as a starter. This preseason is HUGE for him. It doesn’t mean he’ll be great but it means he’ll get a chance to build on what he did/learned last year. By that reasoning, he will be better than last year. Can anybody give solid reasoning as to why/how Vick will be better? After all, he was benched by his greatest advocate last year.

  17. 17 Neil said at 11:44 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    His logic is that Foles threw like a noodle arm last year. It was much worse than such as Brady and Brees throw nowadays. Generally, Foles’ proponents didn’t notice or thought there was some extraneous circumstance like mechanical problems that’s fixable. Shah’s correct though that if Foles’ arm doesn’t get better, his ceiling’s not championship high, possibly even if you transplanted Brady’s brain into his skull.

  18. 18 OregonDucker said at 2:37 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Neil, I think Foles may have fixed his mechanics.

    Jimmy Kempski –

    “What I meant by that was that Foles wasn’t throwing tight spirals on the more difficult throws. His passes often wobbled, like “wounded ducks.” Hence they “quacked.”

    That is no longer the case. Yesterday, Foles unleashed a 60 yard TD that was on the money to DeSean Jackson.”

  19. 19 Neil said at 3:02 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Yeah, I’ve read Kempski’s observations. I replied to shah somewhere in here about how last year might be the aberration in terms of trying to judge Foles’ arm. I want to see him make the tough throws consistently and in the context of a game before I completely buy into the fact that he’s gotten better simple because a guy having only his rookie year where his arm appears inadequate is so rare, but I’m optimistic.

  20. 20 GEagle said at 2:56 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Neil….funny to me it seems like the same people who are fixated on this very fixable “noodle arm”(that might already be fixed) were the same ones over reacting to Foles “Cannon” last preseason, claiming that he should start….

    fact of the matter is that just by last years experience, the game will slow down for him this year. that’s compounded once he trusts a good Oline in front of him. getting thrown into the worst situation imaginable last year(keep in mind that backups get very little reps under Andy during the season)..This kid displayed, poise, Moxy, pocket awareness, instincts, knowing when to buy time and abandon the pocket because he can “feel” where the pressure comes from, toughness, intelligence(making a w audibles that resulted in big plays), Regardless of all the pressure he was under from the defense he had a very advanced ability to keep his eyes down field…reports this offseason is that he is throwing much better, harder, faster then he has since he has been an eagle, and he has significantly improved his eye manipulation(looking off safeties), basically improving at What Bick is Terrible at. Caplan made a great argument how Vick is at a disadvantage because he takes too long, surveying the field, and he has never improved and learned to stop staring down recievers.

    Can’t wait to put this QB battle behind us. it’s exhausting. Hoping Foles just grabs this franchise by the throat and becomes the man!!

  21. 21 Neil said at 3:05 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    The tricky thing about bad arms is it’s so very rare that it is fixable. Foles appears to be very much a strange case. That’s why I reserve judgement. I agree Vick is a terrible fit for what Kelly wants his offense to be, and I think even if Foles’ arm is inadequate as a long term solution, he’s going to win the job this year just because Kelly’s philosophies are so diametrically opposed to what Vick has always been. But it might turn out that Foles’ arm is at least adequate; the early signs point that way. I just want to wait before I completely buy in.

  22. 22 GEagle said at 3:26 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Fair enough…and after the Hoyings and Kolbs I don’t blame your approach. I guess for me, I look at the situation he was thrust into(Baptism by Fire!!!), and it was so bad, that I think a lot of more talented QBs would have been Ruined getting thrown into that situation so early. That Clearly never happened with Nick, and that’s encouraging for me. There is plenty that Nick has to fix and improve on. but the intangibles you either have or you don’t have…Nothing matters if you dont have those intangibles, the ability to perform in the Fire, under pressure of the moment, and pressure from 270lb defenders trying to debacle you. You can improve all your tools but if you don’t have the heart to make the right decisions in the moment and use your tools correctly, then the most you can hope for his developing into Tony Romo… for me, Foles showed That he has what can’t be fixed last year, and that’s what’s encouraging for me, especially since he seems intelligent, passionate and hardworking so I trust that withing the next 2years, we will see continuos improvement in the “fixable” aspects of the position.
    Hopefully Barkley also posses the Intangibles necessary to ever become Elite…if so, we could have a very interesting QB battle in 2015

  23. 23 holeplug said at 12:42 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    No Vick is still significantly better than Sanchez. Foles is too.

  24. 24 eagleyankfan said at 10:19 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Again — perception is in the eye of the beholder. Vick was brought back(in part) do to LACK of available talent. IF Vick is named the starter, that doesn’t mean we have a great talented QB. If means he was the best of what’s available, which isn’t always great. Just wondering how you’re able evaluate(project) Foles over a full season? He was a rookie last year who saw very few “first team” snaps in preseason. I guess we’ll just throw out all the stats that PROVED Foles performed better last year too. Memory — it’s a terrible thing to waste…

  25. 25 holeplug said at 12:43 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Only thing Foles really proved last year is that he was bad with bad players around him.

  26. 26 eagleyankfan said at 1:27 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    With that logic, we can they say — Vick was brutal with better players around him. SMH.

  27. 27 holeplug said at 3:07 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Pretty much. Bottom 1/3 of the league for sure.

  28. 28 GEagle said at 2:57 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Caps lock police! Lol

  29. 29 Neil said at 11:36 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I remember you saying you thought Foles had a good arm in college, and I remember hearing he did when we drafted him. People are telling stories of him making throws he didn’t make last year in spring this year. What if last year was an aberration, on account of something like a mechanical change Foles was making?

  30. 30 OregonDucker said at 3:00 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Nick Foles verses Oregon. Not a bad passer at all.

  31. 31 Neil said at 3:34 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Yeah, no kidding. I’m gonna watch and rewatch some of Foles’ college and pro games, maybe bring in some references to Kempski’s notes, see if I can write something that explains what’s going on here.

  32. 32 GEagle said at 3:43 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Was Oregon the team Foles completed the left handed pass against? Threw the ball nicely for the most part against Oregon. Arm didn’t look weak. His recievers left a lot of big plays on the field

  33. 33 GEagle said at 3:10 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    I went back and looked at all the scouting reports from when Foles was going into the draft. Naturally, I saw all kinds of different oppinions, but one of the things that everyone agreed on was that he was a very accurate, short and intermediate passer…

    Even guys who weren’t high on Foles would list “Deadly accurate intermediate passer” under the positive columns..

    We all have different interpretations and expectations of what we think the offensive and defensive schemes..
    Anyone who can watch 6 games in a guys rookie year, playing with practice squad players and horrendous coaching and claims to know How good or bad Foles can be is foolish IMO. but I think it’s fair to judge a guy who has 9years starting under his belt…I don’t know how good Foles can be, but I don’t think very highly of Vick, and I expect young QBs to start proving themselves in their sophomore season, so If Foles can’t beat out Vick who I think so little of, then he probably isn’t the answer and shouldn’t be starting…

    But when I look at my expectations of what this offense will require, and I look around at all the skill weapons..I think an accurate intermediate passer who will study defenses, make decisions quickly, not stare down recievers should be able to win this job…My guess is it’s Foles, but if it isn’t, I trust Chip…so I will be ok with whoever the QB is….But I can’t lie, as a Season ticket holder, I really really really do not look forward to another season of Vick

  34. 34 Iamallthatisman said at 12:35 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Full disclosure, I’ve never been a huge fan of #10. i acknowledge his stardom and talent, but he isn’t my type of receiver.

    And I don’t think he is Coach Kellys type, either.

    It’s been said that he wants two types, big guys who make RZ catches and can block, and small flanker receivers who can RAC.

    While you would think Jackson fits into that second spot, I think he won’t embrace Chip’s desire of a tough guy attitude.

    DeSean reverted to a 789 receiver, and while he will make some catches over the middle, I don’t think he will do so quietly.

    I also wonder if greater ball distribution (we added 2 more receivers and have a commitment to the run game) will affect his numbers in the positive or if he will disappear.

  35. 35 @FlyEaglesNation said at 1:09 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I personally think Jackson could be part of the run game. I know Chip likes the run a lot but 6 of the top 10 rushing teams had a 1000 yard receiver. I also have thought for a while that the most underrated thing about Jackson is his toughness. He can go over the middle and he does take hits. They’re asking him to run a go route almost every passing snap and he does it with no complaints. For a speedy, cocky receiver under 190 lbs he has a lot of heart.

  36. 36 eagleyankfan said at 9:52 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    It must be perception. I don’t think he’s tough at all. He evades contact like its the plague. His choice between side line and 5 more hard fought yards are always — always — the side line. I agree, he takes hits – then he’ll miss some playing time. Every see him bounce right up after taking a licking? I don’t think anybody has. We’ve seen Cooper do it, because Cooper will fight for that 1 extra yard. Maybe DJ changes his tune this year and we’ll all be presently surprised. One can only hope…

  37. 37 Mac said at 9:54 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I agree that DeSean was like that in 2011, but I think outside of that season, he’s been tough when he needed to be and “smart” when appropriate (which is most of the time for a small guy). At the end of the day, that’s what I want. Fight for the extra yards when we need them, and when we’ve already got the first down preserve the body/speed and avoid the hit.

  38. 38 eagleyankfan said at 10:09 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Let’s see if DJ will ever fight for that extra yard. Be curious to see how plays are designed for DJ to get to the sidelines. Attacking offenses don’t attack the sideline(aside from 2 minute drill). Just wondering — don’t you always need that extra yard?

  39. 39 Mac said at 10:20 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I think always is a strong word. I always want my “big” WR to fight for the extra yard. My personal preference is for DeSean to not get killed on the field. And, just as an aside. I would put him on the bench the moment my team crosses into the RZ. DeSean is an “exotic” weapon that in my mind has a specialized role. There may be times he should be asked to step outside that role for the element of surprise, but mainly he is a deep threat/big play maker. I think Andy and Marty got it partially correct, but didn’t realize you don’t make that guy you’re “#1” receiver.

  40. 40 eagleyankfan said at 10:27 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    DJ is specialized — as a return guy. As a WR, he’s ok. You can’t play “not to get killed”. You might be onto something with using him in special packages. I think the days of AR/MM calling for a bomb to start the game are over. I do think DJ gets some long balls similar to the plays Wash does with play action. It’s going to be fun to watch.

  41. 41 Mac said at 10:51 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    He’s going to have value in Chip’s system by forcing the opposition to keep at least 1 safety deep, and if they don’t well then we can grab a ton of yards/maybe an easy TD. DeSean should be used on occasion on end arounds and maybe line up in the backfield once in a blue moon. I’d love to see him get less play time at WR and pick punt return duty back up on a regular basis. We definitely agree that he’s not a staple of any offense. He’s not the cake or the ice cream, and he’s not even the icing on the cake… he’s the Reese’s peanut butter cup on top that makes the desert over the top.

  42. 42 GEagle said at 3:46 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    I wish DJ wouldn’t even try to be tough. Wish he would spend a summer working with Marvin Harrison on running crisp routes, learning how to go down, avoid hits and stay healthy….rather see Desean play 16 games then watch him get sent over the middle and get blasted. Dude can not keep piling on concussions.

  43. 43 eagleyankfan said at 8:33 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    you mean, aside from his contract year where he refused to do anything….you can call it smart. I call it coward. Should we also ask McCoy to hit the dirt to be “smart”? Mac isn’t the biggest wr’s either, maybe we should as him to take a dive too.

  44. 44 @FlyEaglesNation said at 3:53 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    fighting for an extra yard is not what I meant. I’m saying he can do anything he’s asked. He’s not afraid to take hits if needed too and is actually a pretty reliable catcher. I wouldn’t expect someone his size to try and fight for more yards.

  45. 45 SteveH said at 2:06 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    It’s amazing to me how many people (random shlubs like myself on message boards and national media types alike) seem to be almost in denial about the fact that Vick is no longer the athletic marvel he used to be. At this point Vick is an above average runner but is a long long way from the superhuman athlete that he used to be. As he ages, he’s only going to continue to be slower as well. At this point you really can’t even put him near the category of RG3 or Kaepernick or Russel Wilson. To me Vick right now is basically a little faster and more athletic than Tony Romo, but not by that much.

    The shame is that he has so much freakin arm talent, if he could just stop throwing to the guys in the other colored jerseys, that inevitable drop off of athleticism wouldn’t even matter.

  46. 46 shah8 said at 3:09 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    The people paying the most attention to Vick’s athletic ability, are those seeking to deny he has athletic ability, it seems.

    The people who think Vick is a starting NFL QB, think so because he can run an actual NFL offense, make proper reads, and hit the receivers downfield accurately. They don’t think that Foles actually can read defenses, nor do they think that Foles has the necessary arm strength (if you have to have perfect mechanics to power a sideline throw…). People keep projecting this competence that Foles doesn’t have, and nobody takes the ole double standards game seriously, unless they’re already convinced.

    It’s aways been kind of amazing how much respect Vick gets from his peers in the NFL, other QBs included, given his lackluster career totals, etc. But then again, I am a Vick fan myself–even were he to not play well enough to start anymore, I will still have good memories.

  47. 47 Stephen Stempo said at 3:20 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Vick gets a lot of respect from his peers for the same reason Allen Iverson got a lot of respect from his peers. He puts his body on the line and he doesn’t take plays off and he just flat out games. Fine. No one is denying that. The fact of the matter is though that aside from a few stretches here and there Vick has been pretty bad. Never consistently good. I can’t guess why. Was it coaching. Is he just incapable of grasping certain concepts? I don’t know, but we’ve seen Vicks ceiling. it’s 58% completion. It’s a pick or two a game. It’s watching a LB walk up to the line of scrimmage and then get sacked when he seems “surprised” that the guy showing a blitz actually, you know, blitzed.

    Let me put it this way. Michael Vick is the Michael Bay of QB’s. Big flashy plays, Big draws, big blockbuster movies/plays. All of which are completely devoid of meaning and totally empty and much like Michael Bay will never win an oscar; Vick will never win a championship because there is no thought behind his play. He just goes out there and let’s it fly Boom, flash, ka-pow. And while you’re watching you’re in awe but then you look back and realize that none of it actually mattered in the end. The same feeling you get walking out of a Michael Bay movie.

  48. 48 Mac said at 10:00 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Man, 2010 was a great season. We were a Vick to Cooper TD toss away from a (potential) SB run in that Green Bay game. Vick can be amazing.

    2011 and 2012 were exercises in tolerance and misery sprinkled with some amazing moments and the occasional amazing game. It’s pure torture watching someone who is super talented go down in flames.

    Either Vick reinvents himself again, and starts to play smart Chip Kelly style football at QB distributing the ball to playmakers with consistency and accurately reading the defense, or his career is over. I’m trusting Chip to decide which Vick is on the 2013 Eagles.

  49. 49 Neil said at 12:08 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Having to set your feet to make the most difficult throws isn’t ideal, but quarterbacks have won super bowls like that. It’s silly, not to mention ironic, that you’re saying Vick is our only QB who can make proper reads when he can’t anticipate wide receivers coming open, can’t make presnap reads consistently, missed plenty of wide open receivers last year, and…his competition from last year was not only a rookie, but a project from a spread offense.

  50. 50 Jack Waggoner said at 3:57 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I don’t see a reason to play DJax at the X or Y…

    That rap song of his is awful.

    I happen to agree with him that Vick is the most likely to win the starting QB all things considered. Vick is more gifted and very competitive and I expect that will be the difference, assuming he doesn’t get hurt in preseason.

    That being said, it will be a real competition and no one is a shoo-in.

  51. 51 eagleyankfan said at 9:46 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Shouldn’t last years stats be taken into consideration? Where was Vick better than Foles last year? Where is Vick more gifted? His legs? You got me there. Vick needs more than that 1 skill set to be considered a gifted qb. Very competitive? So am I. Can I be the starter? Nobody questions Vick’s heart/will. It’s his brain.

  52. 52 Jack Waggoner said at 4:37 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Last year’s stats mean nothing this year. In addition to faster legs and stronger body, Vick has a much stronger arm, he could throw the ball further from sitting on his ass than Foles could throw it stepping forward into the throw.

    I am not a Vick supporter particularly nor am I a Foles basher. It’s just the way I see it right now.

  53. 53 Andy124 said at 5:09 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Then why the hyperbole?

  54. 54 Jack Waggoner said at 6:25 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Have I exaggerated anything?

    Look, I know Vick has his drawbacks. And I was surprised that Kelly brought him back in the first place. But I think in a QB competition at camp and in preseason games, overall, I think Vick has the advantage. With Foles’ slow legs and average-at-best arm, he has a lot to make up for cerebrally.

    I could certainly be wrong. We’ll just have to see how it plays out.

  55. 55 Andy124 said at 9:08 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Exactly how far can Vick throw the ball from his ass, and exactly how far can Foles throw it while stepping in to the throw?

  56. 56 Jack Waggoner said at 10:41 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    I can’t really answer that since we don’t have those measurables but the difference in arm strength between the two is huge. Vick is a top-5 NFL arm by almost anyone who rates these things.

    Top arms don’t translate necessarily to greatness. JaMarcus Russell had a cannon.

    But having a weaker arm limits the coaches from executing certain types of offensive plays. A strong-armed quarterback forces the DBs to respect the vertical game rather than sit back and jump routes.

  57. 57 eagleyankfan said at 8:29 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    OK, if last year means nothing, what are you basing your opinion on? Are you assuming Foles didn’t mature? Are you assuming he did absolutely nothing in the pre-season to improve? If you’re using history in your logic, then how can you give ANY evaluation at all?
    I’m assuming Foles DID improve. Foles, at his age, his body is still developing, getting stronger. Vick, at his age, is not getting stronger. Vick is not getting quicker. Vick is NOT maturing. Before anything else is considered, we an assuming — Foles IS improving. We can’t make an honest assumption until Foles hits the field.

  58. 58 Iskar36 said at 5:12 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Maybe I am reading into it too far, but seems to me that saying confidence is not emphasized in Kelly’s clinics is a bit overly dismissive of DeSean’s comments. Confidence fuels all the rest of what Kelly is looking for. You have to be confident in your throws to prevent them from being intercepted, if you hesitate, a DB will be able to react to that. You have to be confident to move around in the pocket, if you don’t, you’ll end up throwing off your back foot or taking sacks. You have to be confident about knowing the playbook.

    If you want to argue that DeSean is basing that “confidence” argument off of history, that’s a very reasonable argument. Or that he’s not giving Foles enough credit on his confidence based on how he has performed so far, sure. Or simply DeSean was picking the QB he happened to like more and like most players is a poor source of info when providing reasoning, I understand that, but IF in fact, Vick is more confident than Foles, I do think that is very valuable to Kelly in terms of what that confidence translates to.

  59. 59 BlindChow said at 10:35 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I was thinking this as well.
    Also, confidence that a receiver will be open by the time the ball reaches him, if the coverage is tight. Though Vick too often waits until the receiver is already open before he throws…

  60. 60 TommyLawlor said at 12:27 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Obviously you want the QB to be confident. It would be silly to say otherwise. You also want a QB with a functional brain and 2 arms.

    DeSean’s comment came off as odd to me, as if Vick’s belief in himself was a good trait. That would make sense if he was a 7th rounder trying to make the team. Vick is a former Pro Bowl player. Confidence should be a given with him.

    To me this is another case of a player not really getting it. Chip Kelly has told the QBs what he wants. I’d rather hear DeSean say that he thinks Vick will win the job because “Mike’s been focusing on getting the ball out quicker” or something like that. Give me something tangible. Confidence? Dumb comment.

  61. 61 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 7:15 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Greg cosell made a good point in a recent podcast. He said if Chip wants to run the Oregon offfense he needs a.QB who is a running threat, which clearly favors Vick. But we don’t know what kind offense he is going to run!! They may not run the read option once all year, it may be featured, we don’t know.
    My opinion is Chip knows what kind of offense he will run, and he will choose the QB who runs that The rest of us will have to wait and see.

  62. 62 P_P_K said at 7:27 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I think DeSean should keep his mouth shut. His predictions don’t help his team in any way. It’s one thing for the media to obsess on the Eagles qb situation, it’s off-season and they are starving for stories. It’s another thing for a guy on the roster (probably) to put in his two cents about something that can only fuel controversy.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if DeSean wants Vick as his qb because Mike has such a strong arm and can throw the long ball, which plays to DeSean’s strength. DeSean’s “professional opinion” is likely little more than his personal desire.

  63. 63 Mac said at 10:01 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Vick’s long ball didn’t help DeSean last year. I don’t know how many times DeSean was wide open and Vick didn’t connect with him, but it was so many that it’s burned into my retinas.

  64. 64 P_P_K said at 10:07 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    My main point is that DeSean should stay out of the qb controversy, or at least not bring it to the media.

    Even if Vick isn’t connecting on the bombs, I think it’s still fair to say his arm is stronger than the other 2 guys.

  65. 65 Mac said at 10:16 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I agree that DeSean should stay out of the media shark tank, but unfortunately I think he (and they) enjoy it. They get semi-boneheaded comments, and he gets publicity.

  66. 66 TommyLawlor said at 12:29 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    DeSean didn’t aggressively put it out there. He was asked. I’d have preferred if he stuck to the company line, but he didn’t do anything wrong.

    DeSean only played 1 or 2 games with Foles. He just doesn’t know him that well. It doesn’t surprise me at all that he wants Vick. Mike was a hero to him growing up and those two have some great highlights together.

  67. 67 GEagle said at 3:54 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Desean just wants Vick because of the Hero worship and its his boy. I can’t wait til they break up Desean and Vick. Curious to see Desean when he has to take orders from a kid like Barkley!….Funny I remember all that hero worship going out the window last year after Vick committed his 15th ridiculous turnovers and veterans couldn’t wait for Vick to get Benched…..
    Tom,Desean actually said some more ridiculous crap…basically he blamed Reid for wanting to Keep Vick in the pocket when things broke down…as if any coach doesn’t want any mobile qb to use his legs when the pocket breaks down…Desean then goes on to talk about how Vick wasn’t used correctly “First and Foremost Mike Vick is a runner who should use his speed and legs first and foremost”….Exactly Why I don’t want to see Vick QB this team…I want a guy who first and foremost uses his brain, accuracy and his arm to play the position. Don’t know if that is Foles…but I know that’s not Vick.

  68. 68 the midatlantic said at 8:12 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Rap reviews on IgglesBlitz. That beat is awful, awful. I bet Snoop made a lot of bank for his “appearance” here (looking for all the world like a stoned and confused Osama from a parallel universe). DeSean’s flow is unoriginal, but not incompetent — the lyrics on the other hand UGHHH. Yung Chris must be someone’s cousin, or dealer. D-

  69. 69 TommyLawlor said at 12:30 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Most complete review so far. Kudos.

  70. 70 mrparabolic said at 8:28 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    If Kelly had a strong belief that Vick was going to be the starter, he would have named him the starter. Vick is pretty weak in his interactions with the media. Kelly wouldn’t subject Vick to the media’s scrutiny if he was planning to name him the starter. Some people think that Vick is far and away the best quarterback on the roster, but it is obvious that Kelly disagrees with that assessment. Personally, I don’t see how a person who actually watched the Eagles play last year could say that Vick was far and away better than any quarterback in this league.

  71. 71 eagleyankfan said at 9:40 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    People blame the offensive line for Vicks issues. Which is a shame because Vick had issues before the offensive line started getting hurt. Vick(and DJ) have issues. It’s between their ears….

  72. 72 OregonDucker said at 2:52 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    While Chip has not said this, Vick embodies the worst traits of a QB in his system. Vick is a thrower not a “passer” – he does not anticipate the route but only throws to open receivers. He cannot see blitzes or stunts. He panics in the pocket, and does not checkdown on receivers. He puts the ball at risk on his runs. He does not slide or run out of bounds and hence tends to get injured and/or fumble. He forces the ball in tight coverage, resulting in turnovers.

    All the above, will be seen once again in TC and PS. Sure you will get brilliant runs but at the expense of a successful checkdown and execution of the play.

  73. 73 GEagle said at 4:36 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Just enjoy being a “pure” fan who is popping his Eagles fandom Cherry. I can’t even explain to you the agogony that was watching Vick lead the team you Love these past two years…It was such a Brutally painfull experience watching that Bird Brain attempt to play QB. It was mostly 3 quarters of Mark Sanchez,Blaine Gabbert type insanity. Shooting the team in the foot, with the most bonehead decisions imaginable constantly killing drives..and then he would wake up and play ok in the 4th…when we played bad teams like the browns that didn’t capitalize on our pathetic mistakes, we had chance to steal the game(and those are the memories vIck apologists hold on to)…
    If Chip was the coach these past two years, right now he would either be back at Orgeon, a mental asylum, or retired from too many heart attacks.. Vick could possibly win the job(I wouldn’t bet on it), but his track record gives me no hope of A)Keeping the Job. B)Not getting injured..

    I think it’s inevitable that we get to see Foles in action this year. The real question is do we get to see Barkley? And that’s probably going to depend on Foles. If we are in the playoff hunt with 4 games left, Foles will ride it out..If we are out of the hunt, Chip will give Barkley a look..
    Question…what do you think happens if Foles straight up beats Vick for the job? After seeing some of the hero worship our players like Desean have for Vick, could Chip really risk keeping Vick on the bench breathing down Foles neck? What happens when Foles misses a wide open Desean? Or throws an interception?…I would almost rather start Vick, then to start Foles with a veteran icon on the bench dying to get in the game, breathing down his neck…If Foles or Barkley are going to start, I would much rather have a veteran like Dennis Dixon, who won’t threaten them, will know his role, know what coach Kelly expects, and who I can count on to Genuinly help the young starter succeed…Instead of rooting for him to fail so that he can get in the game

  74. 74 OregonDucker said at 11:22 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Knowing Chip, Vick gets cut. As I mention above, Vick is the anti-QB for the Chip scheme. Also, he needs to send the veterans a message, you meet or exceed my expectations or you are gone – Pro Bowl or not.

    I think we will see Foles, Barkley, and Dixon in that order. Unless, they open things up for Barkley then he will be #1. He really has a thing for Barkley. You see, Barkley has beat Chip. When Barkley smells blood in the water, he kills. That is why in LA he is known as the “Bark Shark”, to others just “The Shark”. Despite his devote Christian beliefs, Barkley is a KILLER. On the East coast you have not seen this but West coasters have. The guy is a serial killer with a football. I just hope all of you can get a glimpse of his pathology during TC and PS. He’s the Dexter of the gridiron.

  75. 75 GEagle said at 9:29 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    Lol…I’m high on Barkley, I just think Chip is HIGH on Foles as well. Chip could have gotten some very valuable trade compensation from Foles..Tampa Bay, the Cheifs, and I’m sure a few other teams were interested. I actually think that if Foles would have been available for a trade, he would have been the hottest QB on the market, and I think teams would have tried to AQUIRE him, before Alex Smith, Flynn, Carson Palmer…

    So I hate the argument that Foles isn’t Chip’s guy…If it we the case, I don’t think he would be here…I’m hoping both Foles and Barkley develope into that’s a QB battle I want to see in 2015 training camp…Hopefully both develope, and we end up trading one for valuable compensation

  76. 76 Mike Flick said at 8:37 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Just think about that for a sec. When Sapp last chased around Vick, Barkley was about 13 years old and in Jr High. Foles was a 14 yr old, maybe a Freshman in HS.

  77. 77 ohitsdom said at 8:44 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I love him as a receiver, but DJax is an awful rapper. Only reason that song is tolerable is a decent chorus/hook with Snoop.

  78. 78 wilbertmontgomery said at 9:07 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    Tommy, I’m glad you mentioned the pre-snap read. This is something that I’ve been thinking about for a while. You say the Vick has been erratic in this area. My take is that he has been generally bad in this area. I think this has a lot to do with his poor handling of blitzes and has directly lead to the approach many teams have taken in attacking the Eagles over the last few games. The 2011 Green Bay playoff game highlighted it and we’ve never managed to catch-up with the defenses since. The big problem with Vick’s lack of ability to accurately read defenses pre-snap is that at the snap he is behind and has much more work to do than other quarterbacks during the
    play. I believe there is a direct connection here to the amount time he has been holding the ball in the pocket. The bottom line is that it makes it hard for him to make quick decisions because he is still trying to figure out what he is looking at on the move. This has put extra pressure on the offensive line due to the wide array of blitzes that defensive coordinators have been bringing as a result of this weakness. The whole thing becomes a snowball resulting from Vick’s poor pre-snap reads. While it is hard to assess the impact that Kelly’s offense will have on this, I don’t think it is going to help much. It seems like he will now not only need to read the defense pre-snap but also make accurate reads for the routes the receivers make. I think these are all areas in which Foles is going to excel giving him a big advantage.

  79. 79 austinfan said at 9:21 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    I expect DeSean to be traded if he doesn’t change his game drastically, in this offense there just aren’t enough opportunities for deep patterns to justify his salary. For DeSean to be worth $9-10M a year, he has to run all those underneath patterns that Patten and Brown ran in NE for far less money – both weren’t much bigger than DeSean, but ran crisp patterns, got open and caught the ball consistently. Right now, Demarius Johnson is a better slot WR than DeSean, because he has better open field running skills.

    The problem with DeSean is that he has spent his career being so much faster than most defenders that he’s never really developed a “small man’s game,” most slot WRs are very elusive, whereas DeSean pretty much depends on using his burst to blow through an open lane – watch him on end arounds and you see the lack of elusiveness, he doesn’t have the “shake and bake” moves of the more dangerous open field runners. And given his size, he has to have great “shake and bake” to be effective underneath, because he ain’t breaking many arm tackles. You see this on punt returns, when he has a lane he can take it to the house, when a defender is on top of him he retreats trying to make a lane – Reno Mahe was a more consistent PR because he could make the first guy miss (unfortunately, by the time he made the third guy miss he was still only 10 yards upfield).

  80. 80 Anders said at 9:57 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    If we get Jackson from 2009, he is worth his money

  81. 81 Neil said at 1:34 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    I’m not so sure that man can exist in Kelly’s offense. This isn’t going to be an aggressively downfield passing attack.

  82. 82 Anders said at 4:26 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Jackson in 2009 also went over the middle, took plenty hands offs.

  83. 83 TommyLawlor said at 12:31 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Great point about DeSean not developing a “small man’s game”.

  84. 84 GEagle said at 4:18 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    For years I have been hoping that Desean would spend an offseason working with Marvin Harrison, incorporating a “small mans game” into his arsenal.lMarvin would really teach him Intracacies of sharp route running, avoiding hits, and how to attack different coverages…Good thing I didn’t hold my breath.
    People complain about Desean not going over the middle but I don’t even want him attempting that. He can’t keep racking up concussions…missing 3 games just isn’t worth asking him to do that

  85. 85 Alex Karklins said at 9:42 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    DeSean’s song is certainly not the worst thing I’ve heard, but the video looks like it was paid for by the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce. Also, did DeSean have more than two verses in his own song? That’s kind of odd.

  86. 86 Cafone said at 1:57 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    It’s basically a Snoop Dogg song that Jackson appears on, briefly. So, in that sense it sounds pretty good, and you have to give credit to Jackson for putting out something that sounds pretty good and isn’t just a vanity piece. Jackson’s rapping was good, but unremarkable. I doubt he’d be able to make this track without being Cal and Long Beach’s DeSean Jackson, but he doesn’t embarrass himself either.

    In these difficult economic times, the message of “diamonds on my neck” isn’t exactly a populist one, but the NFL isn’t going to let him rap about weed so I imagine topics for a collaboration with Mr. Dogg were limited.

  87. 87 eagleyankfan said at 10:02 AM on July 18th, 2013:

    2 things I’ll never do. Pull on Supermans cape and click on a link that will include DJ rapping. Please.

    T-Law — breach of contract!!! Sapp/Dukes/Boomer were not to be mentioned – unless of course it included throwing tomatoes at them.
    Is it over simplifying Vicks issue as “inconsistent”? He’ll make plays that make you “OMG, he’s amazing”. Then he’ll turn around and make a play that make you say “wtf was that!”
    I don’t know if Vick wins the job. But my opinion on him AND DJ will never change. These guys don’t change who they are in one season to the next. Their own history shows their character and who they are. I expect them to play well by “chip rules” early on. Then I expect both to revert back to who they really are… My season prediction remains the same too. As starters, neither will play the full season either. Unless they are on the bench, then they won’t get hurt.

  88. 88 TommyLawlor said at 12:32 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    Funny stuff.

  89. 89 CalSFro said at 1:43 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    It feels kinda like Desean is just sticking up for his friend/idol. I don’t think he has any clue what Chip really wants out of his QB.

    And I think part of it is almost just wishful thinking. When Vick was going crazy in early 2010, Desean was right there with him, kicking butt and leaving Laron Landry face down in the middle of FedEx field. With a complete change in offensive philosophy, he’s not going to be able to get nearly as many opportunities for plays like that, and I think he knows it. So when he says things like this, I think of it more along the lines of, he’s just got a convoluted idea of what a QB should be based on what he wants the QB to be.

    Add in the rap stuff and I just don’t see how the Desean of the here and now is long for this roster. He, like Vick, is going to have to change his game completely to stick around. And just like Vick, I sincerely hope he does, because he’s so insanely talented. I’d just say the odds are against that happening.

  90. 90 GEagle said at 4:19 PM on July 18th, 2013:

    2010 did way more harm then good.

    2010 aka “The Anomoly”

  91. 91 Cafone said at 2:24 AM on July 19th, 2013:

    Despite the criticisms that DeSean Jackson is always going to get from a significant percentage of Eagles fans, he’s one of the best receivers to ever play for the Eagles, and I think Chip Kelly is going to find a way to use that talent.

    Jackson is one of those players that constantly exposes the hypocrisy of those fans. They say that they want players to be honest when they speak to the media… but not THAT honest! What they really want is a player that repeats the same old cliches so that they can pretend that’s what the player really thinks and that everyone is on the same page.

  92. 92 ojdiddoit said at 6:05 PM on July 20th, 2013:

    Vick is no scrub,beaten to a pulp behind a division three offensive line,forced to regress into a qb who looked to survive first then create,reigned into a pocket passer instead of the most feared athlete on the field,there is no contest if this is indeed a fair qb battle.Foles showed me a weak arm,jittery feet,slow reactions and career backup written all over his Kelly green…Go Mike