PHI 31, JAX 24
Posted: August 24th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 139 Comments »Chip Kelly faced Gus Bradley in a duel for the title of greatest coach of all time. And Chip Kelly won convincingly as the Eagles dominated the Jags.
Some of you may question the validity of that statement, but drink a few PBRs and it will start to make sense. You’ll also gain the wisdom of Socrates, Buddha and Damion Square.
Okay, joking aside…the Eagles were all over the friggin’ place tonight. They looked great at times, they looked terrible at times. The hot topic will be the play of Michael Vick. He was erratic. Vick finished 15-23-184, with a TD and INT. He was 7-53 on the ground. You can’t call that a bad game. But the numbers don’t tell the whole story. The INT was terrible. There was another play where he made a terrible decision and put the ball up for grabs. He was ruled down, but Vick just can’t make that decision. Vick was under some pressure and just didn’t respond well.
Vick hadn’t really been pressured much prior to tonight. Spring football doesn’t involve real pressure since there is no contact. Training Camp doesn’t involve real pressure since QBs can’t be hit. This was the first time that Vick didn’t have a clean pocket. It was good for him to have a game like this now. Kelly can talk to Vick about what he thinks needs to be fixed. Kelly can’t correct a problem until he sees it. I know Kelly could watch old tape, but he doesn’t believe in that. He gives the players a clean slate and deals with here and now.
Jimmy Bama has a picture of the awful decision Vick made.
Kelly said the other day that Vick doesn’t have to look over his shoulder. An erratic game isn’t going to lead to a QB change. Be patient. Let Kelly keep working with Vick and let’s see how they progress together.
Nick Foles was terrific, playing mostly in the 4th Qtr. He went 10-11-112. Foles got rid of the ball quickly and spread it around. He led 50-yard TD and a 99-yard TD drives. Foles was playing with backups and against backups. You always have to balance that perspective.
The O-line was sloppy. At times, they were dominant. Other times, they seemed confused on who to block. There were some key holding calls. Sloppy. This wasn’t about talent, just execution. That can be fixed. The backup OL looked pretty darn good to the naked eye.
Bryce Brown had a great game, going 11-92. He also fumbled. Ugh. He had the ball away from his body and it got knocked through the side of the endzone. That would have been 3 or 7 more points for the offense. Brown played after that and was more careful with the ball. He looked great on outside runs. His speed is special.
The defense was also erratic. The starters had a couple of sacks and a takeaway. They also let Chad Henne look great on the opening drive and played some porous run defense at times. Cedric Thornton played well. So did Fletcher Cox. Vinny Curry was disruptive again. Antonio Dixon finally woke up, but still wasn’t as good as he needed to be.
Connor Barwin had a good game. He had a sack and an acrobatic INT. You finally got to see his value as a guy who can drop back and get into the passing lanes. That’s just not a play that Cole or Graham make. Mychal Kendricks flahsed again. He could have a big year.
The Eagles had 6 sacks and 7 TFLs. A couple of those sacks were coverage sacks. We pick on the secondary a lot, but they didn’t give up any big plays and had some good moments in coverage. They aren’t nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Tom Brady ate them up, but that was the opener. The group has come a long way since then. I’m not telling you the secondary will be good, but the notion of them being historically bad was overblown.
Earl Wolff took a horrible angle on the Jordan Todman run and let Todman get free for a 63-yard TD. Critical mistake for a Safety. I didn’t get a feel for the other Safeties. Kenny Phillips missed the game.
The run defense needs work. Gap integrity is the big issue. Guys need to play under control. I’m also curious about NT play. Gotta be stout in the middle.
Damaris Johnson fumbled while returning a punt and that can’t happen. Critical mistake. He made up for that with several long returns. He had a 61-yard KOR and 37-yard PR. He helped flip the field a couple of times.
Alex Henery was 3-3 on FGs. The long was 45 and that kick was down the middle and really long. His KOs were outstanding. The Jags only returned 2 of them.
Chip Kelly and his staff have plenty of issues to work on, but you can’t ignore the talent on this team. There are some really good pieces. If the mistakes go away, the Eagles will be tough to beat. The offense will definitely score some points and that always gives you a fighting chance.
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It’s a big “if”. I’m dismayed. That’s all, except that it’s 6 am. And I feel like swearing. A lot.
It’s going to be like this, I think, for a while. Consistency does not come overnight.
You’re a long way from Spuds place Frenchy.. Quite happy it was a tough game.. Learn alot more on what needs to be fixed n tweaked
If this irks you that bad you’re in for a long season. New schemes on both sides of the ball with new faces all over the place… this whole team is a work in progress and it’s going to be a roller coaster ride the whole way.
You sound way overboard. It will take time. We need more on defense we aren’t even going to get until next year’s draft at least. The turnovers do seem like instant replay. The red zone is an issue but that’s not likely going to change overnight. And I will say Vick is a concern from the standpoint of going with the older veteran and he could have some limitations no one can change so there will be some things that occur that are similar to the past.
It’s a weird team in a weird time (part of the timeline). We have talent, it will take time for players to learn system and learn communication in real games (nothing can mimic that completely), we need more talent we won’t get until next year’s draft and maybe a free agent or two.
They are still installing some. I think Kelly is still holding some things back. I don’t think he is deliberately hiding a lot but he is hiding some and then he has even said they will be installing some new stuff all the time.
Smart Football @smartfootball
Watching 1st half of Eagles/Jags. Whoever the Eagles put at nose guard get blown up and put on roller skates on almost every running play.
Seems we really need to upgrade NT next year.
Need to draft Louis Nix or McCullers
I was thinking Nix too. Then i remember the Alabama game he was non effective. Sopoaga is serviceable but do think we need a pure beast NT.
Bama was 1 game. Im not going to judge only on game. If we want a pure beast its McCullers. That guy is enormous. Do have some pad level problems, because of his size, but he is almost impossible to move
Theres also that Hageman too next year. Either way someone has to solidify the NT spot this year.
I actually thought about trying Geathers there in the 4th pre season game or hopefully Dixon can get back to 2010 level play.
We need to see. They may feel Bennie Logan can be the guy long term. That said, wouldn’t surprise me to see them add a huge dude.
True, Kelly have said they think Logan can carry 320+ pounds, so maybe we wont really know before next off season when he can change his body.
Mychal Kendricks looks fantastic, very excited about him. Liked how well Johnson bounced back from his awful fumble. Anyone catch Baldy’s list of “bubble” players vs those guaranteed a spot? That guy is just awful. Chaney and Matthews over Graham? What an absolute dolt..
Yeah, I heard about that. Awful. Don’t know how anyone could have Graham on the bubble and Chaney on the team. Insane.
Yeah, I chuckled at that list too 🙂
Tommy, why does it look like Andy’s offense when Vick is in but Chip’s when Foles is playing? Are they running the same offense but just making different reads or something? What am I missing?
Chris Brown of smartfootball.com said on twitter that Vick missed some of his zone reads.
What a shocker..
Well Foles have also missed some of his reads earlier this pre season.
Even if that is the case the play calling was still pretty diff from Vick to Foles – though that’s been the case all pre-season – Barkley and Dixon got diff games when they went after Vick and Foles.
What a lot of Chris Brown seems to be talking about seems to be about adjusting to the style of play. Probably a reps thing.
Couldn’t see game, but read the same thing in a few other places.
We really don’t have good personnel for a two-gap 3-4. It astonishes me that Chip and his colleagues don’t see that. We don’t have a nose tackle that can eat up blocks in the middle and not end up 5 years downfield. We have some decent 3-4 ends, but it looks like Cox was far better playing one gap. We don’t have a second OLB after Barwin unless you count McCoy, but Cole and Graham are far better predators than OLB’s. Even the back-ups seem better one-gapping.
Yet we’re still aiming for a 2-gap 3-4, at least according to public comment. Two-gap defenses are really pretty awful versus short-yardage, too.
I really would like to see us primarily 4-3 under, at least this season.
Davis have said all along that we are moving towards a two-gap 3-4, but he dont know here we end this year.
Most likely will we end up play the 4-3 under or some hybrid front (sorta like the Pats) this season and then next season when we can add some more true 3-4 players in FA and the draft, we will keep moving towards it.
I’ve heard him say that, but in pre-season the nose tackle has been two-gapping almost every play, as has Fletcher Cox. I haven’t watched Thorton closely. You’d think he would want to practice the D they’re going to use in the regular season now, right?
Not really. The preseason would be the best time to see how well (or bad) the 2 gap looks. Start from your end goal (3-4 2 gap) then decide how far back towards the 4-3 you’ll need to come.
Hope you’re right.
Kelly was asked about one of the players (Curry, I think), and said something about wanting versatility because you don’t want the O saying “Oh, this guy’s in so it must be one-gap”… Reading between the lines, Kelly wants to be able to play either. So it make sense practising the one you need the most work on. I suspect we won’t see too much 2-gap this season unless the players really start to figure it out.
Agree, its also easier to 1-gap than 2-gap, so try out the 2 gap, if it does not work, then 1-gap
not the 3rd preseason game. You need to know what you’re going to do by now and then do it. If they were to throw their hands up and say the 2-gap doesn’t work, there is no more live football for the starters until week 1. We’re all in now with the 2 gap now. God I hope they figure out 3rd and long, 4 man front, Vinny Curry, don’t over-think this fellahs.
Eh…not really upset ’bout anything. I’m slightly worried about the line – Kecie and Hermanns (sp?) left a lot to be desired. Other than that though not too shabby. Defense only gave up 24. I could live without the turnovers. If it was just the Vick INT it wouldn’t be so bad – but he can’t have TOs AND the rest of the offense have TOs to. I’ll give them a B-
“There was another play where he made a terrible decision and put the
ball up for grabs. He was ruled down, but Vick just can’t make that
decision. Vick was under some pressure and just didn’t respond well.”
Eh…it was at the end of the half. No time left on the clock. I think it was (another) bad attempt at a hail mary since there wasn’t much to lose at that point. With that said I’d appreciate if he’d stop doing that.
From what I’m hearing, the high-speed offense was not called in the first half very much and the 2 or 4 tight end sets disappeared. Many downfield passes called. Is Andy back?
I think Kelly was just tinkering around.
The first team offense looked very reminisce of the 2011-2012 AR offense
The Eagles didn’t huddle. They used plenty of 2-TE sets throughout the game.
The 1st half looked different because Vick pushed the ball downfield. I just re-watched the 1st Qtr and he had some checkdowns and short throws that he passed up because he was trying to get the ball to other players.
The Jags did take away the WR screen passes in the 1st Qtr. Their defense did some different things.
Okay, guys:
The Marty Mornigwheg offense is simply not fundamentally unsound, and much of it was always going to stick around while Chip implement some more his own concepts. It works great when Vick has protection and between the 20s.
And yeah, going to have to disagree with Tommy about erratic. I’ve seen a great deal of terrible and truly erratic QB play since Thursday, and watch more from Carson Palmer and a bit from Philip Rivers. This was more or less an overall good game with a few bad moments. A lot of yardage in the half and a lot of points, too. You can’t call a all non perfect or non-near perfect games erratic. And there simply wasn’t the variance there, especially for a preseason game. Take Rex Grossman, poster child for erratic, and Vick doesn’t look like how Grossman did earlier today. Grossman barely did more than 50% passing, and while he did well today in terms of yards per play and no interceptions, he benefited from good play by his WRs and bad play by the Buffalo defensive backfield, and this was never any more sustainable than it always was. Of the 36% of passes Vick missed on, only about four passes were inaccurate throws. The yards on the ground were also fairly substantial. So were the points by the half.
Vick being erratic, I tend to think of that Miami game in 2011…
Marty’s offense is gone. This is all Chip.
And any unbiased person who watched Vick in that game would say erratic is a fair description. There were some terrific moments. There were some awful moments. That’s the very definition of erratic.
You can try to find another word you prefer, but there is no way to call tonight’s performance a good game.
Yeah, this is kind of what I’m getting at.
We won this game, for all the values of winning.
We were able to move the ball, and score. We also did it by executing what was called, and without too much in the way of the jaguar defense giving away points like we did for them.
Vick did not actually play poorly, and calling that play erratic when he had a 65% passing rate, with something like 4-5 of his missed passes being throwaways and drops, depending on the definition you want to use…that is not correct, and I am using that word, erratic, correctly. You are not. You seem to be repeating what your circle is saying more than thinking about what you’re saying. I’m doing the “someone is wrong on the internet response” because you plainly aren’t using the term correctly and it’s late at night and I’m slightly sleepy-crazy.
Did we do all the things we set out to do? No. Of course not, but the absurd fixation with whatever your problem with Vick, pick one, is just making you crazy. We have bigger things to worry about than Vick. And you know I was never interested in Foles. Just one intermediate pass (air yards) today, and how many before now? I’ve seen this show before with Ponder for two years now. That stuff will not work in the regular season, at least not without a Percy Harvin totally beasting.
I think Kelly’s Oregon offense (aspect anyway of whatever his overall offense is or becomes eventually) can work. Much of it is about execution, repetition, practice, concepts, blocking, winning battles and his play calling and adjustments.
It’s not something you judge yet or off Foles and Vick each basically not even playing a full game yet total. Kelly is also learning himself and that’s going to go on for quite a while and you have to understand that.
Lines and players all have to learn communication, it’s going to take a lot more time.
Guys, just watched the first half of Jets vs Giants and Sheli didn’t look overly impressive either. In fact his deep balls facing pressure were all way off target.
Re Vick’s erratic play. Gotta agree with Tommy and Bama, those two throws are inexcusable! However I am still of the strong opinion that Chip Kelly wanted to fool us (and ESP the Skins). This was definitely a totally different offense with Vick under center than with Foles in the 4th quarter against the backups.
if he wanted to fool the skins, he wouldn’t have let Foles put two more drives of the Oregon offense on film last night
That would have been too obvious..
I really don’t understand the play calling in the first half though…
GermanEagle – What you saw was Chip tinkering in the first half. Stress the offense, poke the opposing defense to see responses, and limit scheme looks.
As mentioned, the second half Chip opened up a little because he still wants to win. He also wanted to see if Foles would rise to the challenge.
My first thought was that I was watching last year’s team and playcalling. As the game progressed, I came to the realization that, while I’ll enjoy many moments, most games this season won’t be fun. Safety is still a huge problem.
Since Jonathan Cooper may be done for the year the Cards could use a G. What about Herremans for the Honey Badger straight up?! 😉
Damn that’s my boy…Haven’t heard. ACL? Achilles?
Broken foot…
Geez This preseason has been brutal
GEagle . . .
It onlylooked like Kolb was kneed in the head.
Actually, he just was on the field.
Seriously, that kid — from the time he signed his 2nd contract with the Eagles (the “money contract”) — he’s been unable to string together 5 starts.
I never had a high opinion of ‘that kid’. However I kinda feel bad for him, despite making millions of money.
I like the comrade ride this team is forming….when Foles and Polk led that game winning drive, every single teammate from starter to bench, was greeting them on the sideline….It was a very different site from the pointing, and separation we saw last year
that was Barwins first interception of his entire career…to make a play like that when you are covering a slot WR is just impressive…I rewatched peters, and even a rusty peters is a monster, had a better game then I thought he would…impressive
Here’s hoping that Kelce’s bad game was just an aberration and that Herremans finally gets his act together.
Herremans was flat out Bad! Not just the pressure he gave up…he pulled on the one play and was in position to make a great block, he whiffed, and his man made the tackle short of the first down…Kelce has to anchor the interior better and clean up those shotgun snaps
In Kelly’s dreams, that’s DJordon over the WR making the play.
IMO Kelly’s play calling was very generic tonight. He ran the same basic plays over and over again…With that in mind, the execution was impressive at times, they just need to clean it up, and finish the damn drives…What I mean by impressive is, by the 4th quarter, that defense saw those plays all game long, and they still couldn’t stop it…
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Foles looked like Riccardo Muti last night (10 culture points for any eagles fan who knows who that’s is lol)
GE – can you give your honest opinion of MV? If you done so already, just tell me where and I’ll go read it.
I know Riccardo Monteban(sp?) – do I get 5 points :).
I try to leave the Vick talk alone…no reason for me to spoil people’s party with negativity..
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I will say that if Chip doesn’t call quick strikes when Vick is in the game, it will be a disaster!! I can promise you that!!! ball NEEDS to be out of his hands in under 3 seconds…If he holds it for 4-5 seconds, It’s a disast waiting to happen!!! Vick needs to watch some Foles film and learn that taking the check downs can be productive..
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Vick is the QB, no point in me pissing on people’s parade…But Nate Allen, can still be benched, So I’d gladly let him have it any chance I get lol…I watched the game again, but focused on the Dline and Oline…probably Watch the QBs in a little…
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But I doubt I will have much good to say…Alot of bad plays, and he was fortunate that guys like Avant bailed him out with big time catches on multiple occassions…
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Foles needs to take more shots down field, and Vick needs to take more check downs….basically we need one of the QBs to grow into a blend of both extremes…Although I don’t have a problem with Foles taking what the defense gives him…I can’t say that about Vick when he is refusing to take the check down, while throwing incompletions 20 yards down field…
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If Vick doesn’t get the ball out fast, we are absolutely DOOMED! Simple as that…He practically gave me a heart attack throughout the entire first half…
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Dont like to give oppinions, until I really put in some work to have some idea of what I’m talking about…I will definitely write more after I go back and watch him
Thanks. Good to hear good things about Avant. We need a number 2 guy to step up. I’ll watch the game late tonight/tomorrow. I was expecting to read about some names this week but I haven’t read them yet. I’ll wait for T-Laws article. He’s great at that. I’ll rant about Vick but it sounds like he took a step back — not forward and I’ll leave it at that….
Oh you didn’t see the game….well, best way I can describe it for you, is Vick looked almost identical to how he would during a decent game, under Andy and Marty….It was very very similar to what we saw these past two years on a “good night”….It was a very weird performance. it Genuinly looked like he was playing under Marty…..He had a beautiful strike on the TD pass to Cooper. They run this easy bread and butter play where everyone goes like 15-20 yards down field but Celek sits down in the center of the field for easy 7 yard gains, Vick took those easy thows…but he ignored most of the check downs that Foles used methodically, so that he could look for strikes down field…I was Not happy with what I saw…NOT at ALL….However, if he played like that last year, we would have considered it a good game…I just expect much more now that Chip is here….basically Vick and fOles looked like they played on two completely different teams…the offense looks drastically different, even though it’s probably just because of the QBs decision making, and not the play calling
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FYI, When Bryce doesn’t fumble, he looks incredible!!! I just dont recall ever seeing a guy like Bryce who turns the corner consistently, when you expect that there is no way for him to do so…damaris fumbled a punt early, and the ounces back with BIGTIME returns all night
GEagle – You got the impression of the Vick offense Chip wanted you to see. He is mindfricking with defensive coordinators. God, I hope he kills the skins with his real offense – we know it can be a beautiful thing under Vick.
From what I saw Vick had the same hand off/run ball/ pass options that Foles had, and that it was Vick’s genius idea to not hand the ball off and Chuck it 70% of the time….but I don’t know what coverage the defense was in so I not know if it was the right call by Vick or not….but I actually don’t think Chp had much to do with the slanted pass/run ratio….Vick could have left the ball in the gut of the RB instead of throwing it, so I put what we saw on how Vick runs the offense compared to Foles….could be wrong tho, it when I see those fake shotgun play action passes I assume he had the option to handed it off
Wait til you see the catch that Avant made…
Who cars about that sim phony stuff. We talkin bout football. FOOTBALL!
Sim phony hahahahah.. I see the google works early in the morning.
Muti is a famous orchestra conductor…That’s how Foles looked
At least phxii used a Philadelphia reference and not Chicago.
Hahahahahahaha you think Muti is from Chicago? Lol interesting…
I got more of a Eugene Ormandy feeling.
I’m surprised that Chip doesn’t care about the history stuff. History does repeat itself. Hence Vick’s play. It’s what we’ve all feared. Vick doesn’t change once important whistles blow. We WILL see this Vick again and again and again.
Safeties aren’t historically bad? Come on man. Memory that short? Last year was absolutely brutal. Run defense has to be better? Good to great run defenses get a lot of help from the secondary. Somehow this secondary is excused from the “run defense needs to get better” comments. Maybe — just maybe — There’s no down field threat/game plan from the Jags. This is no powerhouse. The Jags are in transition just like the Eagles.
You can’t call that a good game either. What you can call it, is a Vick game. Other resources saying Vick missed reads. That’s expected and will continue.
So, you’re saying — the defense is excused for playing poor vs. HOF Brady and say they got better because they played against a terrible offense? Just wondering how you think this defense would play vs. Brady now, do you think it’ll be any different?
When I’m wrong, I’ll say I’m wrong. I thought Vick would tear up this team. I thought, after this game, everybody would be screaming SB. Instead, Vick reminded most that Vick is still Vick.
Vick needs to watch the Film of Foles and learn that taking the check downs can be effective..
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when Vicks in the game, Kelly BETTER call quick strikes. The Ball has to be out in under 3 seconds…when Vick is in the pocket for 4 or 5 seconds, he is a disaster waiting to happen!!!
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Is that the internal clock every QB should have?
Yes, but the problem is he has no internal clock, because he always had the unique Hoodini escapablility. in his mind, he doesn’t need to play with that clock, because he is superman and he can escape all pressure….That’s clearly not the case. if he can’t find someone to throw the ball to in 3 seconds, I Wish he would just throw it away…because when he is dancing around the pocket for 5 to 6 seconds it’s a disaster waiting to happen….I remember seeing some plays we’re Peters blocked the hell out of his guy. Vick would run to that side, Peters would look back, see Vick, Block his man again….Watching Peters, I just could tell that in his head he is like “come on man, wtf, throw The ball”…
Reading article after article about this offense — and I don’t know if Vick was in shot gun — but all the write ups said by the 3rd step back, the QB should know his reads and get rid of the ball.
That’s how it looks when Foles is under center….but Vick did not play like that. he fumbled shotgun snaps like Foles did…He threw the same Exact interception that Foles threw last week, when a ball that he is trying to throw away falls short and in the arms of a defender…
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Defense still makes some mistakes, but there are some times they look really really good….Cox chased down a RB who was trying to get outside and turn the corner on 3rd down, but Cox looked like he murdered him short of the first down. Huge, Brutaly punishing hit(you must see the highlight of that hit)..saw Cox tackle a. RB 3 or 4 times for no gain….Thorton played really well, Vinny Curry continues his campaign of terror, Back to back hard QB hits. Kendricks continues his growth on his path to become th stud he is destined to be…Barwin was really impressive…
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Chung didn’t seem to have the type of good games he has played thus far, but I have to go back and WATH him to really know…Someone was benched Early, and Wolff came in, took a bad angle that led to a long rushing TD, but he was active and stuck his some in a few plays
You have to keep in mind that Foles was mostly playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers though. Also I would like to know if our WR’s were really not open or if most blame is on Vick for not mastering his reads. I guess the All 22 can offer some insight on this…
Wasn’t Foles playing with 2nd and 3rd stringers too?
Fair enough. However I am pretty sure that Foles would have been running for his life with some of our O line play in the first half.
I don’t buy that keep in mind a QB was playing with 2nd stringers…doesn’t matter who he is playing with, A QB ALWAYS needs to make the right decisions, and ALWAYS needs to throw accurate balls…He did that!!!
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That 2nd string talk is. Re for the other positions…for example. You want to see what Curry can do against starting Lineman, not the back ups….you want to see hOw Wolff guards starting WRs and TEs….but that second string stuff doesn’t matter for a QB…No matter who he plays with he has to find the open man, and deliver the ball on time, and accurately…Foles did that, although he didn’t take many shots down field
I have to see that huge hit. One aspect team was missing last year were those crushing blows. It really pumps up the defense. Cant wait to see that and Avants catch….maybe a coming out party for Avant this year?
Sure hope so…Ertz dropped what could have been an awesome catch early in the game. took a big hit and couldn’t hold on
Why would Avant come out? I think he’s shown enough over the last years that he’s not gay…
Lol…me of our local reporters talked About his reception total going up in each of his 5 years and how that could continue…Tommy has it posted on the other blog
Vick has an internal clock. It’s just slow.
Keep in mind that Shady only Carried the ball 5 times
EXACTLY!
I am pretty positive that we won’t see another 70-30 pass run ratio in the season opener again unless the Eagles trail the Skins with more than 14 points. Which is – unfortunately – a harsh possibility. No matter how much or how much less you value the Skins defense.
Our D will show up in Washington!!!!
We can all hope.
if Mark Sanchez hurt.. do you trade Vick to the Jets for a 2nd round pick? 3rd? (marty is Jets OC so transition would be easy)
I’d gladly take a 5th for Vick, like yesterday!!!
Itd be funny to trade him today so we can play against him on Thursday.
Actually Vick does not like Marty, so that would be a terrible idea
Trade him for the Jets’ 1st round pick. Plus, because he’s a QB, the Jets should agree to swap DE Wilkerson for OG Watkins as part of the deal.
Marty tried to have Vick benched . I don’t think Marty would stand by. I am sure he would express his opinion on not bringing Vick in.
It always amazes me how Vick fans and Vick detractors watch the same exact game and come to opposite conclusions.
And what’s these opposite conclusions from last nights game that you are seeing? I see a pretty consensus oppinion. About his game last night
Thats because only the Vick haters are in full force, the Vick supporters (not a fan per say, but support him as your starting QB), know Vick didnt have the best game, but why say that?
The Vick haters instead see Vick having a terrible game and already needs to be shifted for Foles.
You can call someone a Hater during a general discussion,,.but there are NO HATERS the day after a game.there is just what happened, and what didn’t happen…..and what happened was the moment Vick faced ANY adversity, he reverted back to the Reason Vick has “Haters” to begin with…
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is that the final judgment of Vick…no? but I’m not on a sugar coat it because of the sensitive vpblind Vick can do NO WONG fans….It was a BAD SHOWING!!
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Should he be benched? NO(and this is coming from a “hater” who never believed he should be the QB to begi. With)….But what last Night did was cost him is some equity, it shortened his leash if you will….
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FYI: some of the offensive line problems last night only occurred cause Vick held the ball for so long(now I don’t know if he had guys open or not)…other times early in the game they struggled with the Jaguars slanting line….
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I know Lane gets credited with a sack after he blocked Babin for like 3 seconds…Ball should be checked down by the time 3 seconds come off the clock in his head….and it’s still a problem.
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Does this make me a hater, or just someone who is stating what happened last night?
check out some other sites. there’s a lot of back and forth.
Will do
Everette Brown pumped some life into his Eagles career last night..
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Interesting to hear that the coaches today will talk and decide whether the starters need any work against the Jets or Not…
Sadly for Brown, so did Travis Long, so I stil think he is the 6th best OLB on the roster.
very good point
Loved the one play, when Chad Henne’s pass got Coxed blocked.
T-Law wrote:
“Kelly can talk to Vick about what he thinks needs to be fixed. Kelly
can’t correct a problem until he sees it. I know Kelly could watch old
tape, but he doesn’t believe in that. He gives the players a clean slate
and deals with here and now.”
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That’s a nice attitude for a school teacher just trying to set a student on a life-long path to success.
Not so sure — after Vick’s 10 years in the NFL — that this approach makes any sense at all for Kelly.
For a guy who says that Rockne and Pop Warner invented the game, sometimes Kelly acts as though pro-football in Philadelphia began with his arrival here.
And, no, Kelly is not all “honest” and “frank.” He’s as slick with the media as Ron Ziegler (Nixon’s press secretary).
I seriously don’t get Chip’s thinking on this subject. When he decided to resign Mike, he had to obviously watch tape from the past few years. He had to know upfront that Mike had trouble reading defenses and that he tended to wait for receivers to get “open” before throwing the ball. I’m sort of shocked he named Mike the starter for the whole season based on practice and 2 preseason games where he was well-protected in the pocket.
He’s treating him like a college QB or a rookie who can have his bad habits changed by watching film. Chip is forgetting, or ignoring, that In the last decade, Mike was never able to learn how to slide.
You don’t get ACViking’s interpretation of Tommy’s value judgment placed on Kelly? I didn’t see the quote where Chip Kelly said he wasn’t going to look at any previous tape. I think that might be a stretch of a stretch.
1.) “You don’t get ACViking’s interpretation of Tommy’s value judgment placed on Kelly?”
– I don’t understand your question.
2.)”I didn’t see the quote where Chip Kelly said he wasn’t going to look at any previous tape. I think that might be a stretch of a stretch.”
– ACViking quoted what T-Law wrote in his main post:
” I know Kelly could watch old tape, but he doesn’t believe in that. He gives the players a clean slate and deals with here and now.”
Re: Foles Playing w/ 2nd-Stringers
Think back through the Reid era and beyond.
It was rare for the Eagles’ back-up QB to be doing much of anything in the second half of Exhibition Game 3 . . . except run for his life.
Yes, Foles was either with the scrubs or agin’ the scrubs. (Reader’s choice.)
So what. He made the offense work . . . something that didn’t often happen in the past decade-plus in that situation.
Doesn’t matter if a QB is playing with scrubs…He still needs to make the right reads, the right decisions, and deliver accurate balls…sure the windows will be smaller when plaing against starters, but you will have better playmakers as well…
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To me that playing with back up talk doesn’t matter as much for a QB as it would for say Curry playing against backup lineman
CLARIFICATION REQUEST:
GEagle . . .
Are you agreeing with me? Or disagreeing?
As our GEagle is more of a Foles lover and Vick hater I tend to believe he was agreeing with you.
Agreeing…..and I’m no lover of nothing…
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I know what Vick is….and that’s Not good enough!!!
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I have no clue what Foles is, but has shown enough whe I want to see what he could do behind a real line for a year….I’m banking on given time to grow and play, in two years Foles will have corrected the mistakes Vick hasn’t corrected in a decade.
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I know we can draft all the young QBs that we want, but if we don’t give them time to play and learn, we won’t ever find our QB because if we are going to discard every young QB talent, if they don’t set the world on fire, the rookie year, we could go a decade before another Andrew luck or RG3 Falls in our Lap…
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I also think with the way Foles runs this offense and takes the chek down, him at QB makes our Line even better than what it would be for Vick….Lane blocked Babin fine for 3 seconds, had Foles been the QB, Lane never gives up that sack
This preseason has shown us Foles can run Chip’s offense just fine. Whenever Vick gets hurt this year I’m expecting Nick to take over and keep the offense clicking.
Bryce Brown is perfectly engineered for fourth down and two point conversions, which was not lost on Kelly last night. He is big and fast and doesn’t hesitate or dance before hitting the hole. If he coughs it up, it’s a fourth down or two point conversion.
Last year I was posting over and over that they should give Polk the ball with a lead because he didn’t cough the ball up much in college, despite his fumble last week.. I think Kelly is on top of all those angles but it never got into the Andy grey matter.
A lot of commenters seem to be circling around this question, but I’d be curious to hear what people’s opinion would be to the actual question. Had Kelly not named Vick the starter last week, would this game have changed the perceived leader in the QB competition?
A couple things to keep in mind: I think any unbiased observer would say through two preseason games, Vick was clearly the better QB. He made some incredible throws, was calm in the pocket, and has missed on very few throws. In training camp, reviews have been mostly very positive, and it seems the majority of reports have Vick slightly ahead of Foles, although in practices, the gap doesn’t seem to be as clear as in the two first games with Foles looking better on some days and Vick looking better on others.
As for Foles in the PS games, he has certainly not looked bad, completing 84% of his passes, running the offense efficiently in the context of what Chip Kelly seems to be looking for. On the other hand, he has made a few mistakes including dropping a few snaps, and throwing a terrible INT while trying to throw the ball away. Foles also has not shown off a strong arm in any of the PS games, but in camp he has been able to connect on a few deep balls.
Just to be clear, I don’t think Chip Kelly should change his decision once he made it. He would lose credibility in the locker room. But he surprised us with making the decision last week, so it makes you wonder, what would happen if the QB competition was still going on?
This game would have looked different. They likely would have alternated possessions. I would have loved to have a side by side of Vick handling pressure vs Foles handling pressure. This is important. Foles did exactly what you want to see him do, be perfect against back-ups. He’s a starter in this league imo (not saying he should start over Vick, just putting them both on the same tier).
And Peters is going to need to check himself and the O-line about that fewest sacks in Eagles History statement after the o line puts up a performance like that.
I don’t think it would have changed my mind unless Foles was night and day better. I agree with Ark87 that the game likely would have looked different if they did switch back and forth by posession.
As you pointed out though, Foles has not shown a strong arm in any games this preseason and that does bother me. I’d like to see him successfully challenge the defense on a deep ball if only to keep them honest. One of Baldy’s few coherent and this case good points last night was that Kelly’s offense stretches defenses horizontally and vertically. With Foles in there, does it successfully stretch the D vertically? As of now, I’d say, no it does not. Foles has looked good, but can you depend on him being able to put together those 10-15 play drives like he’s been able to this preseason when opposing defenses are game planning for his short-intermediate game?
Just some hypothetical thoughts there. For all of Vick’s warts, I think he truly does give Kelly the most versatility in his offense. Vick can run it, he can chuck it deep, and when he’s on his game, he can hit those intermediate and short throws.
I’d say this game evened up the competition. Foles hasn’t demonstrated a good arm, but Vick hasn’t demonstrated prudence when under fire. However, I would be more worried about how Foles doesn’t throw downfield if the offense didn’t move with him in. He might be throwing short to an absurd degree, but it has to be to some extent what the defense is giving him because I don’t think he’s had any drives where he didn’t move the offense right down the field. Either it’s just some quirk about what our preseason opponents wanted to see from their defenses…or they respect his arm? I still really want to see some downfield throwing.
If the QB competition was still going on Kelly wouldn’t have done what he did with Vick last night. Since he named Vick the starter he wanted to work on Vick’s biggest weakness which is his ability to read defenses and make the correct decision. Thats why they passed it so much and didn’t run any of his Oregon stuff.
If Foles was named the starter Kelly probably would have had Nick throw a bunch of intermediate and deep balls last night since that is Nick’s biggest weakness at this point.
I think it would have evened it up in the eyes of the unbiased fans. I still think that Chip would have went with VIck. Chip states he doesn’t care care if he has a running QB. I think he prefers that threat at QB though.
The issue we have is the QBs are very different in style and abilities. Their style of play shows us it’s an apple / oranges comparison. It is why each camp is firmly entrenched. They believe in their guy.
Can Vick execute the up tempo as fast as Chip wants? Has Chip tried to run it with Vick? From the sideline shot last night it looked like Chip was trying to get them to pick up the pace. A starter was named so that they could start tailoring the offensive plays to what the QB likes. Is that what we saw last night? Vick and that offense still put up lot of yards.
Why hasn’t Foles gone down field? Is it the play calling? Does Chip think Foles is not quite there yet? There hasn’t been a need for him to go down field. He had an empty handed throw on the first or second play in one drive that was a turnover after review. They made the 4th down conversion only to have it negated by a penalty. Every other series he had he has drive the length of the field. One drive ended in the INT but all the other have been TD’s (4).
I wish we could replay this game with the knowledge we learned from the game. Split the reps and Give Vick the up tempo and make Foles go down field more.
We’ll have to wait for the regular season games. Hopefully it gets sorted out.
Well the ghost of Andy Reid haunted me this game. Offense wasn’t as good as I thought it was, defense wasn’t as bad as I thought it was (though it was Chad Henne). Had a few head scratch challenges that began to make a bit more sense as context came in, but w/e.
O-line really disappointed me. Didn’t see much in the way of blitzing, but man was there pressure. It’s not good when you’re running the option and there is 1 guy coming at the QB and another coming at the RB. I wonder if that’s a step towards defeating the option. If they leave you unblocked, go with a full head of steam towards the QB, everybody else, if you are blocked and beat your block, crash on the RB. Or some variation of the concept. I’m hoping we are just seeing an exceptionally coached defense give us trouble early.
Poor Jags desperately wanted that win, unfortunately (for them) our back up QB and RB are starting caliber and obliterated them.
That is how you beat every offense, beat your man in front of you. While there wasnt much of blitzing according to Kelce, the Jags did a lot of twists, slants and stunts and that was something that the OL had not game planned for.
In recent years the game has been about aggressive pursuit of the ball: penetrate, disrupt, swarm. Last year the option torched so many because the entire unit blocked and unblocked would play someone, and the QB would just take the other option and gash the defense.
I think we are going to see defenses start emphasizing gap integrity and assignment football. It could be a pretty major shift in the football meta.
That was how Stanford won over Oregon. Have gap intergrity and trust your assignment and beat the man in front of you.
Thoughts on the Option and an our run:pass ratio:
In a strange way the defense dictates it doesn’t it? It’s always been true (take what the defense gives you) but this is a much more direct input. We could end up seeing some pretty creative manipulation this year from defenses.
Indeed. But there should still be a high percentage pass somewhere if they’re coming forward to stop the runs and quick screens. I’m a little anxious that Vick will only look for the long ball if that happens, but I suppose I should give Kelly the chance to get things right.
I saw Nate Allen’s face on a milk carton this morning.
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Noticing Allen in the game is about as Rare as an authentic UFO siting…
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How much longer do we have to wait for Stella to get her “groove back”?
and you still dont get how coverage works.
And you still don’t get the concept of “Humor”
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You think while I was typing that I didn’t know you would be the first to bite? dance Puppets Dance!!! Lol JK
Being the coverage safety, that’s not a bad thing. I do wonder why he wasn’t on the field during that long TD (perhaps he’s in a battle with wolff and rotating series, Vick-Foles style).
I think that has more to do with them still being undecided about their FS situation. I think it’s fairly obvious that Chung is your starting strong safety. The other spot is still up in the air.
I think they just wanted to see Wolff against starters.
and as you said, because we ran mostly cover 3 and we havnt given any deep passes up the last two weeks, Nate Allen is doing is job right.
Had a nightmare evening at work and ended up not getting home until 9am. Naturally the first thing to do is put on the Eagles game. Here’s my quick hitters for the game.
1. Old Vick started creeping in with some of his decisions. Besides the pick and the ball he was trying to chuck up for the sideline as he went down, he also had one of those phantom pressure moments where he started the scramble drill with no one near him. Very disappointing as he is the starting QB, hopefully Kelly can get him back on track quickly.
2. Connor Barwin making a pick I haven’t seen from an Eagles LB since… ever.
3. Ced Thorton looking beastly with the sack, what a pickup for a UDFA. Awesome fit on this D.
4. Jacksonville has some ugly daggum helmets man, that sharp gold to black is just not working.
5. Jacksonville also fielding the least “talented” cheerleading squad in the NFL.
6. In the first half, Jacksonville ran the hurry up better than we did.
7. In the second half, Foles’ hurry up was much much faster, actually forced the Jags to take a timeout near the goal line.
8. It’s worth noting that Vinny Curry’s 2 QB pressures and TFL came versus Jacksonville’s #1 OL, not backups. Why he is not seeing time at least situationally with the 1’s continues to puzzle me.
9. Refs missed a pretty obvious pick when David Sims got beat for TD. WR gave a little spin to try and sell it but it was right there.
After reading through the comments its becoming increasingly obvious that you can’t give an honest read on the QB situation without automatically becoming a hater or a lover, so I’ll just throw this out here, you can call it whatever you want but on this night Foles easily outplayed Vick, which is the opposite of what happened in the first 2 games. Also, Foles ran the fastest hurryup I’ve seen all preseason on the 99 yard TD drive. Thats just what happened tonight, it doesn’t mean Vick sucks or Foles is awesome or that Vick won’t be good this year, it just means Foles played better tonight. That is all.
It is now noon and I have yet to sleep, so with that, goodnighzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yes on the helmets. I look at them from behind and I think dang that gold actually goes pretty nice with the rest even if it makes a weird backdrop for their logo. But then the other angles 🙁
Maybe Vick looked worse than than the previous two games because, now he has been named starter, other teams know to expect him to play the most? They did say on the commentary that the Jags had done a little game-planning for that game. Easier to game-plan if you know the QB (not that it’s impossible otherwise, of course).
Whatever else is said about the QB competition, I think Foles looks like one of the best backup QBs in the league (as he did last preseason, in fact, imo).
New post is up.
http://igglesblitz.com/2013/08/morning-after-thoughts/