Monday Morning Stuff
Posted: September 16th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 199 Comments »I’m busy with the DGR so just some short, quick stuff for now.
Chip Kelly is an amazing offensive coach. He is 2 games into his NFL career. Think about this…
* LeSean McCoy has a career high for carries and the 2nd highest rushing total of his career already.
* DeSean Jackson set a career high with 9 catches on Sunday. He had the 2nd best day of his career in terms of yards (193).
* Michael Vick set a career high with 428 passing yards against the Chargers.
It is often overlooked, but a crucial trait with great coaches is that they get star players to play at an elite level. Jimmy Johnson didn’t win Super Bowls because he loved fast DL. He won because Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt played at an elite level.
Chip was given great offensive talent and he’s delivered great results so far.
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80 points. 846 yards.
0-2 record.
That’s how the 2007 Giants defense started off their season. New DC Steve Spagnuolo was teaching his scheme. He had talented players to work with, but the team struggled as they learned the system…and faced talented QBs in Tony Romo and Brett Favre.
I’m not saying the Eagles defense will become a juggernaut unit, but keep things in context. This is a completely new system. And they just faced RG3 and Philip Rivers.
The defense should improve as the players learn how to play in the scheme. That takes time. Since the new system is completely foreign to so many of the guys, it will take longer than 2 games. I’d love to give you a number. Could be 3, 5, 7 or 9 (see I don’t always choose even numbers).
The personnel issues won’t get solved until next March/April/May. But the current group can and should get better as they adjust.
Good defense is all about 11 guys functioning together. They need to communicate. They need to execute their assignments correctly. We saw some blown coverages yesterday where players simply made mental mistakes. Those should go away. Should, being the key word.
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In regard to my comments yesterday about the defense vs 2012…I wasn’t referring to numbers. The 2012 unit was the worst Eagles defense I’ve seen because they made life so easy on opponents in those final 10 games. They gave up points and yards, but also style points. Opposing players were running free down the middle of the field on a regular basis.
This isn’t a Juan Castillo issue. The defense fell apart after he was fired. That’s when we hit rock bottom.
If this group does give up 30 points a game, they may be statistically the worst Eagles defense ever, but I can live with the effort and intensity. If you have players that just aren’t good enough, all you can ask is that they give maximum effort. I’m only going to be mad at players who underachieve. Those guys tend not to give maximum effort and that’s a major red flag for me.
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Chip Kelly is going to have some growing pains as he adjusts to the NFL game. He could have done a better job late in the game on Sunday. We knew there would be moments like that. You don’t mind Chip making those errors once, but you hope he learns from them.
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Nate Allen won’t remain a starter for much longer. You can already see Earl Wolff is tackling better and is a more decisive player. The coaches just want him to have a firm grasp on the defense.
The reason for that is they don’t want to throw Wolff out there early and have him make mistakes that would affect his confidence. You can ruin a young player by playing him too early. Those guys can develop bad habits that will affect their mindset and the way they play. It is better to live with Nate’s issues for another game or two and make sure Wolff develops properly. The goal here is to have Wolff as a starter for the next few years. Don’t be impatient. You wouldn’t eat pudding that hadn’t fully finished cooking would you?
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Someone referred to Fletcher Cox as possibly being a bust. I couldn’t tell if that was a joke or not, but let’s be perfectly clear. Cox had a good rookie season. He’s doing some good things this year. He’s adapting to a new system and that will stunt his growth, but he’s got the potential to be a Pro Bowl player. He is where he should be. Don’t visit the sins of other 1st rounders upon Fletch. He looks like a good young player.
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Nate Allen is bad, really bad! Hebiscalways late with help and always outnof position with coverage, or flat out beat. He made Eddie Royal look way beyond his level. Increase the o ass rush and sit Allen and I can live with what comes of the season.
Sign Kerry Rhodes as a stop gap S. He’s better than Chung or Allen.
I’m better than Allen. The “flag poles” used at practice are better than Allen. At this point, we just have to hope for a windy day. Allen’s play was putrid.
For the guy who keeps saying “show me where Allen screwed up”. I’d suggest you re-watch the game and listen(and watch) where the announcer says(and draws) where Allen should have been.
There is a reason that nobody has signed him. My guess, and its something that shouldn’t be an issue in 2013, but its still an issue, is the question of his homosexuality. Which could easily destroy locker room chemistry. I think that’s what teams are fearing in staying away from Rhodes. Sad but quite possibly true.
I agree; it only takes a few divided opinions to create another T.O. situation. No need to add a grenade to a fresh culture Kelly is trying to instill; regardless of W-L, I’m sure Lurie will see it as a success if everyone buys in and we end up with better chemistry than the last 2 years.
Yes, it is sad that is still the case, but pro sports are so fickle. Kluwe and Ayanbadejo, two of the more outspoken players recently, are both currently unemployed.
Yes and No….seems like we have some good leadership in this locker room.
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What would need to happen is Chip calling Vick, Avant,Desean,LeSean,Barwin,Meco,Cary,Soap,Cole, Jason Peters and Chung into his office, talk openly about it if he thinks that Rhodes on the field can help us win games…..If he can still play at a high level then the question to those players becomes…Can you handle sexuality concerns, keep the rest of the locker room in line if it means adding a player that can increase our odds of competing?…It would have to be a serious, open, and honest conversation…If Rhodes can play, and every single one of those players would want him on this team and would take it as their job to police the locker room and make sure Kerry feels comfortable…Then I don’t see why you can’t bring him into the locker room as long as its una a contract that’s easy to get out of…..If one of those plays isn’t completely excited and inboard about adding Rhodes, then you just can’t add him…
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This is assuming Rhodes is still playing at a high level…I really have no clue where his game is at right now? To my recollection, I believe teams are just flat out staying away from him…I don’t recall a team bringing him in to take a look at him and then deciding that they didn’t want to add him…..can anyone confirm this of set me straight?
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Seems more like he isn’t being given an opportunity, then a case of his play drastically declining
I think it’s some other issue. If Riley Cooper’s still around, he’d always be more of a real issue than a gay guy in the showers.
One thing. Vick is current 3rd in the NFL in passer rating behind two scrubs in Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.
Shady leads the league in rushing yards, and DeSean leads in receiving yards.
McCoy also leads in total rushing/receiving yds at 356 total yards. That’s an avg of 178yds/gm. Nice job Chip!
The offense as a whole is also ranked 2nd in total yds, 2nd in yds/play, 3rd in total pts & also pts/gm.
Would almost be scary to think what we’d accomplish in year 1 of the Chip Kelly era if the defense could at least be average. But we’ll see what happens as the defense should improve, as we’re only two games in with a lot of football yet to play. The offense could cool down & the defense could improve.
I think this team will be like the Saints last year. Very good offense, with a crappy crappy D to the tune of a 7-9 record.
There’s no way I can see a half full glass here. Last night was a winnable game that we didn’t win. But, now that it’s over, I’m psyched it’s only four nights until we get to pummel Big Red and his KC Chefs.
The best thing about a loss before a Thursday game is you only have to be depressed for four days instead of 7.
Flip side is if we lose to Andy at home, we get thursday night and a good 9 days to stew over it
Losing the “Santa Clause is coming to town” Bowl (you know how we treat Santa in Philly lol) is NOT AN OPTION!
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Thursday is a chance for the great Chip Kelly to completely re-write history, and forever change the outcome of the EPIC HISTORIC Battle from the Enchanted fable…The Tortoise vs. The Hare!!!!… The Tortoise and his slow but steady BS ain’t beating this Fast and sly, New Age Hare!!!
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Yosimity Sam does not beat Bugz Bunny!!
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The roadrunner continues to espace the clutches of the Coyote on Thursday!!!
Could be 3, 5, 7 or 9 (see I don’t always choose even numbers).
lol
I’m reminded of the post you made some time back about how Kelly will make mistakes. And that’s some of what we’re seeing here. There have been poor challenges and suspect clock management. These aren’t things to go ballistic over, they’re things to be expected. Sit back and see how he progresses. Be an optimist and assume he’ll learn from his mistakes. If he has the same problems in 14 years, well then he’s probably been doing a lot of other things really well.
He could be Pat Shurmur or Ron Rivera (what is it with AR disciples and bad clock management?)
Carolina fans were wishing they had Chip Kelly. They know Cam is being misused and there O even with their problems would look totally different with Kelly at the helm.
Yup. Chip seems the kind of guy to learn from mistakes, so it’s important we only see that the one time. But no coach, genius or not, can flawlessly transition to this league. I think he’s still tinkering with playcalling and personnel on offense (the wacky pass:run ratio, and so much of the “11” grouping).
For at least the first half of the season, d-coordinators preparing for us on tape will have to expect at least one novel, funky setup every game. I mean, WE all knew DJax would go over the top more this game, yet they still couldn’t prevent him abusing single coverage. Going into the Eagles possession with 2:something left of the clock, I was confident we’d at least tie (get a FG) if not score a TD. Haven’t felt that way in years.
I didn’t like moving to the 3-4 because I thought it would take two years to make the transition, we’re not GB with the players in place and one draft makes the transition complete, or Houston with the pieces for a one gap 3-4 and Watt completes the transition.
Eagles simply do not have the personnel for a two gap 3-4, you need two OLBs who are excellent pass rushers, we have zero (Barwin and Cole have virtues, but they are not Woodley and Harrison, etc.). You need a NT who can take on double teams and anchor, we don’t. You need . . .
Some of it is talent, some of it is players developing, Thornton – Logan – Cox might be a solid front next year when they grow up, Kendricks is still on his learning curve, Boykin is figuring out his position, Barwin is a solid LB, as long as you have reasonable expectations, Ryans is a solid two down ILB. Wolff has the talent to be a good safety down the road. The others, well, Cole isn’t horrible, he’s Haggans but he’s not the Trent of 3 years ago, Williams tries hard but has physical limitations, can Fletcher stay on the field, Chung hits but the further he gets from the LOS, the less value he has. Graham, Curry, do they fit at all? Geathers, Square, Allen, Sopoaga, will we miss them next year.
The best we can hope for this season is they gradually adjust to the new system and achieve mediocrity (which is not necessarily a bad thing, a middle of the pack defense with this offense is a playoff team). Then next year they can seriously upgrade the talent.
Noteworthy: They appear far superior to last year’s squad at taking the ball away already. And as Tom mentioned, they appear to be playing harder and tackling better than last year’s squad after the DC switch.
I’m not sure mediocrity is attainable, but it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility considering those two points.
Imo better to do it now when we are in the upswing, instead of try it next year. This way we find out who can play and who cant. So we can prepare for FA and the draft better.
I agree with this rationale. This year is key for guys like Thornton, Logan (either NT or DE, but either way we need to know about NT for next year), Fletcher, and Wolff. All of those positions, + OLB, are in line for an upgrade. I hope at least 1 or 2 of that group pan out.
I agree with that line of thinking as well. But is sure doesn’t fit in at all with the “Win the Day” philosophy that has been so consistent in every other decision we’ve been privy to.
That’s because the true motto is “Win the Day*”
*subject to pragmatism due to yesterday’s ineptitude.
agree i must say everytime I see Earl Thomas make a play i’ m sure glad we have Graham!
I think Chips building the kind of defense he thinks can best stop his kind of offense. If he succeeds all year as well as he has so far, over the next couple of years you will see a huge movement to the RO and spread in the NFL. Imagine what Kevin Summon could do in Carolina!
A big reason Alabama plays a 2 gap 3-4 is that reduces the number of players you have to assign to lanes, helping to reduce one of the weapons the RO gives. I think Chip is thinking ahead and getting ready to stop that now so he won’t have to later.
Yep, also Stanford say that the 2 gap 3-4 is the best against read option and spread offenses.
Stanford uses a 1 gap 3-4 against spread teams
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/43197/stanford-shows-oregon-its-own-brand-of-old-school-football
I for some reason thought they played two gap.
But that article also call the Steelers and Packers a 1 gap team and Bill Davis is a disciple of Dom Capers and Dick LeBeau and I know the Steelers is mainly a 2 gap system.
I think chip is having one major lapse in franchise strategy. In real time strategy we call in consistency. Essentially to maximize your results you need to have consistencies in all of your decisions. If you want to do a rush aggression in the early game at the expense of your long game, you go all in. If you are playing the long game, you play everything to peak out at some future window of opportunity.
Offensively, Chip is playing the short-term. He brought Mike Vick back to have a play-off caliber offense this year, as opposed to figuring out what he has in his future with Foles or Barkly (or developing them). On the defense, he is playing a 2-gap 3-4 with 1-gap personnel. We can almost certainly put a more effective scheme on the field given our personnel and the history of Bill Davis with the 4-3 under. But it seems Chip has elected to stick with his guns to evaluate who sticks on this D in the long run. Basically he is sabotaging this year’s team with a bum defense, and marching into the future that has no QB, hoping something will turn up in the draft. I think he was right to keep Vick, but he needed to follow up with a consistent mind set on the defense as well.
Vick can still be our QB for 3-4 year if he only takes the beating like the Chargers game. 3-4 years is an eternity in the NFL
I’m not jumping off a bridge about this. We already knew the defense was going to problems. Big problems. The defense is playing as expected. The offense is playing better than expected.
I don’t expect the defense to get better this year. Round pegs in square holes don’t go.
Imagine the numbers mesean and Vick put up if Vick didn’t miss him 3 times when he was wide open. Speaking of mesean — thanks for the penalty. it really really really helped us…
Good point about Wolff and not wanting to hurt his long term future by playing him to early. You really have to make that call on a case-by-case basis. Some guys will grow faster by learning from their mistakes on the field. Some guys will lose confidence and develop bad habits like you said. Making the right call for each player is critical to the long term health of your franchise.
eh — I don’t agree with that. You don’t get better watching ‘too late Allen’ miss play after play. You learn by experience. If you’re not throwing people to the wolves — Boykin shouldn’t have been out there. Thing is, there’s nobody better, so Boykin plays. There’s nobody better at safety, so why shouldn’t Wolff play?
Because some players, see Macho Harris or Demps, suffered badly from it. Same with Poyer, he is clearly not ready and it means we sometimes go with 3 safeties instead of 3 cbs.
Also Boykin was ready to play the slot last year.
I’m not about to take a stand on whether Earl is a guy who’s growth would be stunted or accellerated by playing Earl(y). But you seem to be denying that there are even two possibilities. I’d encourage you to play devil’s advocate to yourself to help you see the reality of both possibilities.
I don’t think there’s any scientific proof that people are “ruined for their career” by playing too soon.
No, but we have seen first hand what a bad start can do for a safeties confidence
Scientific proof isn’t a realistic option for this kind of scenario. Anecdotal evidence is sufficient here imo.
that’s my point — there is no proof, one way or the other. There are players thrown in and thrive. Some fail. Some are in wrong systems and excel in others. There’s not future for Allen here, no hopes of him getting better.
Tommy, is 8.8 yards per play as amazing as I think it is?
It is crazy.
Right now the Packers lead the NFL with 7.5 yards per play followed by the Eagles ad 7.0.
Last year the Saints lead the NFL with 6.2 and in 2011 it was 6.7 (when Bress lead the NFL is passing yards). Remember the Eagles are doing this with a heavy part of the run game, where the Saints and Packers do not know what a run play is.
McCoy averaging 5.6 YPC sure helps that number, as well as a healthy 19.8 YPR. Astounding.
McCoy is such an underrated receiver. I know he isnt Westbrook in his prime, but I thought he was too much of a check down options with AR here.
With Westbrook he actually tried to get him matched up against LBs in open space.
While watching the Nebraska/UCLA game this weekend, UCLA slowly came back and then destroyed the Nebraska secondary by isolating defenders and relying on skill players to break just one tackle. The announcer noticed this, and at one point implored Nebraska to stop blitzing and help those DBs; if the first guy misses, there is a lot of open space.
The Eagles take advantage of the same thing. McCoy and Jackson so often get the ball in a position to only make one cut before taking off. No wonder Kelly took this job, we’re probably the best offense in the NFL at RB/WR for his scheme. And this is all without Maclin.
UCLA is a fun team to watch. Their entire offense is basically packaged plays.
OLB, CB, S next year, continue to develop the young guys and maybe in a year or two we can have a good defense to match the O. I am hoping they go hard after Byrd/someone of equal talent next year even if it means overpaying…we have had too many misses at the position. Still, I am encouraged that we are not seeing nearly as many gaffes on D like last year.
Agree. I would also trade a guy like Graham and/or Curry if they aint going to get playing time. Maybe even trade Foles for a 2nd/3rd if we think we can get 2-3 more good years out of Vick and then draft a development guy.
I didn’t know the day would come, but I agree with all your points you just raised.
Have to be realistic. Graham and Curry is odd fits and if the coaches aint going to play them. Better get something for them (prefer draft picks, but if we can trade them a disgruntled OLB somewhere, it would be nice). I just do not think it will be this year.
I agree here too.
If they aren’t going to use either of them (Graham or Curry) they ought to trade and get what they can out of either. I’ve heard complaints we won’t get value back but if we don’t play either of them we won’t get their value up either.
I’m not sure why they are pushing to move to 2-gap 3-4 this quickly and thoroughly. They still have more 4-3 guys than 3-4. They ought to take advantage of that more and put them in position to succeed. Then trade Graham and Curry while their value is up and next year, with a few more players drafted or signed for the 3-4 move to that.
Also, wasn’t it Parcells who made the 3-4 popular lately? Didn’t he say he moved to it orginally as it was easier and cheaper to get 4 good LBs than 4 good DL? They already have the 4 DL and don’t have the LBs (yet).
Parcells moved to a 3-4 b/c of LT. They played a 4-3 under defense in the 80’s.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cosell-3-4-4-3-concepts-more-personnel-163318715–nfl.html
Good info I was not aware of.
More lately, I could have sworn he made a comment when he was a GM at Miami he was talking about he liked the 3-4 as it was easier to find LBs than stud DL.
The things bothering me the most in the future are:
1) Does Chip know when to run down the clock late game? (Not the timeouts, the pre 2 minute warning offense.)
2) If we don’t use Vinny Curry Thursday when we saw how little pressure we had on the QB today.
3) Is preserving Wolff’s sanctity worth playing Nate Allen in the coming games? It sure seemed to me every big play we gave up had Nate Allen involved.
Absolutely baffled by Curry on the bench. It feels like they are betting hard on Geathers developing despite the fact that he has done nothing on multiple teams. Is Geathers really that much better than him on ST’s…I honestly have not paid attention to him on ST’s. I am also curious why they had Curry put on weight and then draft all these DL. Wish we could have seen him lose a little and compete at a position with no depth whatsoever. Is there any chance they try to maneuver him back to OLB over the course of the season?
Count me in the Baffled by Curry club.
I don’t know why they aren’t playing Graham more either. 16 snaps when he is your best pass rusher is head scratching.
I thought the same thing.
My reference re Cox being a bust was a joke, my friend. I would still like him to be more of an impact player constantly though.
Let’s hope my girls will bring more luck on Thursday.
What beautiful little girls, Congrats, Dad. Good thing they got their looks from their Mom!
Regardless of Thurs, you, sir, have won in a big way.
Thanks mate.
Congrats my Euro Hommie. continue to Fight the good fight, aka The get Nate Allen The hell out of Philly movement!!!!
More congrats on your girls, plus big ups on the Randall jersey!
Great pic.
One thing regarding the offense. I hope we go to more 2 TE sets in the future. I like Avant and all that, but he is not a guy to play 81% of the snaps.
Cox is most certainly not a bust as of yet. However he is being neutered and stifled by my least favorite Eagle, yes I even loathe him more than Matthews, Billy “not so bad ass” Davis.
I had a problem earlier this summer when he responded to a question, which was in direct reference to Cox, that he would not make adjustments to his D based on one player! So here we are now running a 2-gap 3-4 w/ our most effective, disruptive, starting force not allowed to be disruptive. Even when we go into our Nickel, 3-3-5, it still makes it tougher on the D-linemen to get pressure than the a traditional 4-2-5 and relies to much on blitzing LBs. My response to Davis’s response to that question was…if you don’t have OLBs who can be great or even generate consistent pass rush, then why the Hell wouldn’t you play to your strength and not 2 gap but instead run a 1 gap?!
And yes back during the summer, I knew Barwin and Cole were not going to be dominant OLBs. This not me bragging and by no means am I so smart…yet a lot of people could see this, the writing was on the wall and crystal clear. Davis has made Cox impotent, w/ his scheme and I have and will always think that that is wrong.
Also I’m don’t have the best memory, but I can’t name a Steelers D-lineman that was simply outstanding or dominate since back in the Hayday. I believe their 2 gap 3-4, which we put striving to imitate and master, relies way to much on good LBs and only stifles the DL. Wereas a Wade Wilson type Texans 1 gap 3-4, gives you D-Line more freedom to make plays and be effective vs the pass w/o putting too much restriction on the LBs. that’s just how I see it. S
So activate Curry and FREE COX!!!
Chip said, we won’t tailor a defense around 1 player…I don’t know if Billy said it or not, but I know Chip said it….I also get the sense that Transitioning to a two gap 3-4 would be Chips decision not Billy’s….Yes Billy was groomed in the Steelers system, but his prefered scheme is the 4-3Under….I have a feeling it’s more of a case of Davis giving Kelly what he wants….I also don’t think any scheme will define this defense. I think we will play like 5 different schemes over the course of this season….but who knows?…we shall see!
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I do know that I really ally like Billy Davis, and it would be a mistake to judge him on his first year, making such a drastic sheme transition, riddled will young players and new free agents….I have a feeling Philly will adore Billy Davis….This isn’t a tense that you over read to after 1 game. We all get carried away as fans, but what I’m lookng forward to is judging them quarterly, over the course of 4 game spans….
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We started off with a big win against the skins, We had a bad showing against the chargers, now we find out what happens in a Gut Check game against the Chiefs…and then we will be placed in the worst case scenario, Peyton Manning in Mile High….That’s a good 4 game span to really find out how far off you are right now….IF there is improvement from one 4game span to the next, then we are heading in the right direction, and that’s really all you can ask of coming off such a historically pathetic group of defenders in 2012…Grinding away, staying dialed in,continuing to claw n scratch…these improvements add up Over the course of a season, and when you are playing in a division that will be hard fought and decided late in December, there is still plenty of realistic hope
Davis was hired to run the 3-4 2 gap. So if Davis wanted to run the some other defense, he shouldnt have taken the job.
I give Davis 3 years to turn around this defense. We are switching scheme and the talent on D was really lacking.
Remember it took Pete Carroll 3 years to 100% turn around the Seahawks defense and he had to get “lucky” drafting two All pros in the 5th round.
I don’t disagree…Davis absolutely knew what the deal was, and I have heard him say a few times already “Giving chip what he wants”… Your Pete Carrol argument is basically all I’m trying to say. the past 6 quarters of defensive football are minuscule in the grand scheme of things, and if you are rational then you have to expect some growing pains….yet I don’t care how bad it was yesterday, you can’t tell me that yesterday wasn’t a drastic improvement of Last season…Last year, in a game like that the defense would have seriously quit and folded by halftime…This is the NFL, if you can’t hit a QB that’s what it looks like, and there is no way to sugar coat that yesterday was bad, but I don’t expect 14 more games like yestday…I expect about 6 more games like yesterday and then start coming together for the December stretch of football…
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Wisenhunt,Rivers and the Oline seemed to know exactly what we were doing on every play. But I think it’s a mistake to expect every team to pick up every single blitz and stunt we throw at them all season long…Billy has to disguise better then he did yesterday, but its also up to our LBs to not lose their mind and tip their intentions because they QB is using the play clock. LBs tipped their hand early too many times yesterday but thats something that can improve…
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opportunities to make plays will be there, and it’s very encouraging seeing that these players are capable of making something happen when that was clearly not the case last year…By our 5th game at the latest we will have surpassed last years turnovers on defense…In terms of a finished product we are probably around 30% right now…we have so many players that if they keep grinding will improve as individual players, will improve in this scheme and will improve as a cohesive Unit….It’s not like we have reached our ceiling and yesterday was as good as it gets. there was a ton of correctable mistakes made…Yesterday was horrible, but I don’t see why anyone would view this as hopeless..99% of people expected the worst, a pathetic talentless group anyway…and even in horrible performances, plenty improvement from last year is already evident…and it’s only 5months of practice, and 10 quarters of experience into the process…The glass is HALF FULL, not empty!!
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Still don’t believe we will two gap all year lol, maybe I’m just stubborn lol
That would b great. And I think you might be correct that Chip said it. Yet still chip doesn’t involve himself w/ the D side that much. Still think this is Davis and don’t agree that his prefered method is the 4-3U. It’s been more than just one game…this is not me over reacting. This has been a whole offseason, preseason, and 2 games. That second 1/2 of the Skins game was horrible defensively, and the 1st 1/2 the D was barely on the field. You keep hoping that we aren’t just a 2 gap team, well so far we. You’ve said all offseason that we are going to run a 4-3U and we haven’t! I’m not starting an argument w/ you, but there are somethings that are clearly evident. We are what we are until we change it. And right now we’re a 2 gapping team that does not put it’s best pass rushers from a year ago, in a position to be effective/on the field. The D definitely showed bad against the Skins!!! And as a D if the only thing you relying on is turnovers to make you good…well you’re in trouble. Cause on day the turnovers will stop and you’ll just be left to try and play good D! What then?!
Another game like yesterday and I think we will go 4-3U…we won’t really have a choice. Chargers exposed us in that they knew we wouldn’t drop Cole and Graham deeper then like 5yards, so they just ran routes right behind them all game, and we don’t have the Safeties to shut that down….If Andy success fly attacks us the same way then I don’t see how they can continue to not use Graham and Cole as Predators who just attack …no point in dropping them if you are afraid to drop them far enough to take those routes away without relying on the Safeties
I would love to see a 4 man front in passing situations with Graham, Cox, Curry, and Cole. I don’t know how you don’t at least try it.
I’ve been told that the officiating crew from the game is very highly respected, but some of the calls and non-calls were infuriating. The flag on Desean’s called-back TD was extremely late and there were no flags when he was tackled out of bounds and when Vick was hit when clearly going out.
Damn, and that’s not even to mention one play where they literally held onto the ball on the line of scrimmage, not letting the Eagles snap it while the Bolts made subs.
Not to mention the Floyd fumble when he got hurt
I thought the refs were crappy yesterday, but the rules state that defense must be allowed to substitute if the offense makes a substitution. That’s why you’ll see the refs over the ball until the defense has gotten subs out on the field. It sucks, but it keeps it fair.
I think it should just be part of the game. What’s to stop W/R/T from pretending like he’s running out for a sub, stopping just in bounds and out of focus, catching defenses off-guard? At what point does the ref register a sub? When a player heads to the side or makes it out of bounds? Cos that situation could lead to the ref holding onto the ball wrongly.
I’m not sure. I’m not a ref. All I know is that if the offense subs, the defense gets a chance as well.
Not allowed:
“With the exception of the last two minutes of either half, the offensive team, while in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line and snapping the ball with the obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul; i.e., too many men on the field.”
I’m not saying rushing to the line. I’m suggesting tricking the defense into thinking a player is being subbed out and we only have 10 on the field, while one in fact remained just in bounds
think that would be a “simulated” substitution
But what if the defense IS set and they just don’t see that guy they assume went and is out? I realize this is nitpicking, but I imagine it could be used once or twice
I think the Pats have done it a few times, but we are the Eagles and not the Pats, so the refs are going to hold the ball.
It says chance to sub, not use most of the game clock to sub. I do wonder, would the Eagles have been called for delay of game, if the ref was still standing over the ball?
No idea and I’m not sure how much time they have to give the D to run players out on the field. I just know if the offense subs, the D gets a chance to do so as well.
yea, but a team do not need 25 secs to sub. That was just the refs abusing a rule. Normally it takes like 10 sec to sub
http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/playersubs
Doesn’t say anything about an amount of time allotted to the defense. I do wonder if the D could be called for a delay of game if they’re taking too long to sub or if they would get a too many men on the field penalty.
“Players who have been substituted for are not permitted to linger on the field. Such lingering will be interpreted as unsportsmanlike conduct.”
So yea it should be a 15 yard penalty if they dont sub fast enough (like two guys run on the field and the 2 guys meant to left does not leave right away).
They held up the snap more than once.
Eagles subbed so bolts had right to sub.
Read below, difference between subbing and using 25 secs to sub.
Thank you Tommy for again being the voice of reason.
You would think that this team was the Panthers (good team talent, lousy coaching) or the Jaguars (poor team talent, unknown coaching talent). We’re not even close to being that bad.
This is a team with a top 5 offense. Think on that for a sec. I wasn’t following the Birds last year, but from what I read, *no one* in Philadelphia thought they could be this good. I read stuff about Vick being washed up, trading that trouble maker McCoy for draft picks and all sorts of nonsense this off season.
Even if this team is just awful on defense (I think we’ll eventually be average), this team will at worst go 7 and 9. If we’re average on defense, I really think 10 and 6 (given our beneficial schedule). We’ll lose some games we should win, and win some that we should lose. That is not bad and surely not as bad as enduring a 4 – 12 season.
I’m really looking forward to Thursday. Even if we lose to Big Red, I look forward to learning more about this team and seeing lots of offensive fireworks. One thing that this team will not be is boring. I have never enjoyed NFL football as much as I have in watching the Birds this season.
with the division as bad as it is, just getting the defense to play average will give us a shot at the post season!
Yes, I agree. The score differential will make all the difference. Give the O a little more time and it’s lights out.
All this doom n gloom….after 5 months of practice and ten quarters of football, these coaches already having Vick,Desean and LeSean putting up Career numbers while taking care of the ball, and hanging 30pts a week, and Chip is getting those results when we aren’t even close yet to being operating like a fine tuned Machine…
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if he can keep these guys healthy and focused, it’s crazy to think what Chip can make these guys look like once they have 10 games of experience playing this way and are all fully comfortable in this offense. look how much a inexperienced raw player like Lane has grown in the hands of these coaches in only 5 months.
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Desean Jackson has been a dormant nuclear bomb these past two years..Already chip Kelly was able to activate and weaponize him…It took Chip 5 months to get Vick to play the best ball of his life….Glass is half Full and Far from Empty….
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We had so much to improve on from these past two years…even after a tough loss and only two games after 5 months of training, drastic improvement everywhere is evident….Yesterday was a very tough loss on me, but when you put everything into perspective, it’s the Easiest loss I have had to suffer through in a decade!!!
Still haven’t watched enough of the game to offer much an oppinion..some notes:
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if we are going to praise Billy Davis, then we also need to keep it real when things don’t go good…He was flat out, Out classed by Wisenhunt yesterday. It’s like their Oline knew every blitz or stunt that we were dialing up..
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However, It’s not all on Davis. my beloved Linebackers were thrown off by the slow tempo. too many times they tipped their hand too early in the play clock, and exposed their intentions to Rivers and the Oline. Billy has to disguise better, but they players also need to adjust to the extra slow tempo and not tip their hand so much.. Chargers knew we wouldn’t drop Cole and Graham too far back, so they consistently ran routes that got pass catchers right behind the OLBs…and that’s a recipe for Disaster when your safeties aren’t playing COMPETANT defense…
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Give the Devil his due…Better QBs, and Better Olines this year, won’t play as well as the chargers did yesterday. they committed very few mistakes and didn’t give us much to capitalize on…
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I wouldn’t complain about Cary, Chung and our boys committing penalties, but it’s tough to shut up about it when the other team isn’t getting flagged for anything.
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earl Wolff is going to be a good player, but he just isn’t ready yet. you can tell that half the time he doesn’t know what he is doing, and if you can’t play fast, you don’t have a chance…on plays where he knows what’s going on, and is able to be desicive, he makes things happen and flashes the makings of a good nfl safety. Nate is Pathetic. simply Pathetic. Years of game experience and it just isn’t getting any better. he has to play, because like Tom said, we can’t destroy Wolffs confidence…
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look, yesterday the defense was about as bad as it can gets, HOWEVER…Even after a bad defensive showing like yesterday, it still such a drastic improvement from last Seasons defense, In a game like yesterday, last years defense would have quit before halftime and completely folded…This young unit stayed in the game, they kept fighting, I never felt like they quit…and it was very important to see this change from last year.
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It’s never as good as it looks and never as bad as it seems. just because we had a great defensive showing against the skins, it doesn’t mean that this wasn’t going to be a defense that wouldn’t struggle. it’s going to be an up and Down year defensively. Everything is just too new for it to not struggle at times…Grant it, I wouldn’t have thought it would have struggled against the chargers Oline, and a soft RB who I knew would break..but they stepped up and played some damn good football…However, when it’s all said and done, we will end this season feeling good about the future of this defense.
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We must keep our perspective…our coaches and players are still learning each other and the schemes. we have been together for only 5 months and we will encounter offenses and defenses who have been playing together in their schemes for years….this year was about laying the foundation for the future, and I think they have done a heckuva job…such a good job, that we are going to have a chance to win the division, and young players will be developed the right way…To have a chance to win a division in a foundation laying year is literally about as great as a realistic fan could ask for…..and once you sneak into the playoffs, ANYTHING can happen…especially when you are talking about a young team, relying on so many new free agents and young players…I believe in these coaches, both as Teachers and motivators…when a young team is coached well, and the players work hard all year and continue to fight, you will see a drastically improved team in January from what you see in September….The Loss hurt, but I don’t think it’s anything to get down on..Games like yesterday are the cost of doing business in year 1 of new schemes with new and young players…
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Thursday will tell us a lot about where we are, and the harder of this group.
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We lost yesterday, but we are in first place in the division, and in 3 days we get an opportunity to forget all about this painful loss…..
Thanks for your post GEagle. I’ve been pretty down today after our showing. BUT the O did keep the game very close, so we have that. I just need some hope that the D will improve enough to let the O run wild.
I’m hoping that on Thursday our players will have a fitness edge due to the sports medicine program and the frantic pace of practices in the past. I just hope we have some kinda edge.
If the D can get the Chiefs off the field, then the O can run up a score differential that will win the game. That’s a BIG IF.
great point…and opportunity for the sports science to show its value…
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Andy Reid is a fantastic preparation coach, and a average at best in game coach…Even if Chip is inexperienced as an NFL coach, his brain just works faster then Andy Reid’s, and I’m hoping that it will show up in Thursday…A game week coach, with little time to prepare, against a quick thinking, unorthodox coach that can’t be easy for Reid to prepare for….If our coaches and free agent acquisitions instilled the Charecter that I think it did into this locker room, then I like our chances on Thursday night
I’m sure someone posted this already but…
Kerry Rhodes?
it drover crazy listening to our media ask Chip questions in yesterday’s press conference…They asked a million questions about Safeties, and Chip said there aren’t any good safeties sitting in the street and that we have to play with the safeties we have….I was screaming at reporters through my TV begging them to ask a Follow up…”any interest in Rhodes?”…Obviously I would like them to ask about Byrd since he is the type of addition that improves the entire defense drastically, but I don’t think Chip would be able to comment on another teams players in terms of acquisitions…But If you are a reporter and you are going to ask about adding Safeties, why wouldn’t you ask about a guy Lke Kerry Rhodes who could be had in a moments notice? GRant it Chip wouldn’t have given a great answer…but ATleast ASK!!!!
Chip would not be allowed to talk about Byrd
Yeah, that’s what I thought…He can talk about a guy like Antonio Gates after a game in terms of playing against him, but you can’t talk about other teams players in terms of acquisitions…but why ask chip about adding Safeties who aren’t on a team fifteen times without mentioning Rhodes..
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Chip just said Bradley Fletcher is cleared, and that the only player that isn’t practicing today is Brandon Hughes who has a leg injury
Hammy
+ by –
Giants are giving him a tryout. Also, Bill Davis coached him so maybe it says something that he’s not on the radar.
I had to wait until this morning to catch the game on NFL Rewind, but the announcers for the Giants game spoiled the ending for me. Bastards.
However, I was pleasantly surprised. When I heard “loss” I imagined the awful slopfests we had to endure last year; but the Eagles were in the game until the very end, won the turnover battle (even if we couldn’t capitalize), and generally looked like a real football team.
There were some concerns, like the three Pass Interference calls on Williams. If we wanted PI’s, we could have kept DRC (he had a big one yesterday, but then on the very next play had an interception). Also, way too many pass calls, particularly on that final 4th quarter drive. And another crucial missed FG from Henery, though the snap seemed a little off…
I may be in the minority but I felt those PI calls were pretty ticky tacky. In fact, on one of them as it happened live I assumed the flag was for offensive PI. The game had a little bit of the feel of the refs helping out one team to me with calls and no-calls.
In spite of all that, the Eagles were blowing the barn doors off the Chargers and if one of half a dozen plays ends (or begins) differently they won the game.
i agree with the ticky-tack PI calls. one was a definite PI, the other was more of a “eh…i wouldn’t have called it, but i can understand why it was called” but the third was just so minor. but i’m guessing that by then, the refs were keeping their eyes on it.
Williams had a handful of jersey on each of the calls.
no way that the second one was Legit…..I thought considering how the Refs were calling that game, they were Horrendous calls(and not just saying this cause Cary is my boy)….If you are going to let King Dunlap tackle Nate Allen, and not call anything on the chargers then those were very tricky tac calls IMO….If it were a tighter called game, then I could live with the first and third Interference calls…lbut the second was not Pass interference
You should be in the minority. They were legit calls. Just because the Umpire doesn’t call holding doesn’t mean the BJ shouldn’t call PI.
problem is jersey holding like that happens in every game by every CB. Sometimes the BJ sees, sometimes he sees it and does not call it.
Fine. But once it’s called once, why would you think the guy’s not going to call it the next three times?
i put the loss more on our missed opportunities to be honest.
the TD to desean that was called back due to an illegal formation penalty on lane johnson. we settled for a FG on that series. that right there cost us 4 points.
similarly, the james casey drop on the goal line (granted, that would be a difficult catch) cost a TD and we settled for a FG.
i think there was another series where a mistake cost us a TD and we had to take a FG…
We also missed a FG.
That miss looms large now. Would have been nice going in at half time tied.
And hey, what was with the announcers ragging on Chip for calling timeouts at the end? Was proper NFL etiquette to just concede the game at that point? If he didn’t use his timeouts there’d be no chance for one last attempt at winning the game. It wasn’t rocket science. At least with Kelly we still had all our timeouts…
Yeah, I don’t get it…we gave up 3 yards(at the most) to give the opponent a few extra chances to make a mistake while also making sure we got the ball back for one last hail mary…One fumbled snap, botched handoff exchange, Olinemen jumping offsides, holding penalty away from winning that game. I actually liked the way Chip coached the last defensive drive,Especially when you have an offense that showed it is capable to scoring in 1,2,3,4 plays
The Chargers lost a game two years ago because of a fumbled snap as they were running out the clock before a last-second FG attempt. There was precedent!
To me the criticism was just that stubborn set in your ways old school thinking…I really don’t see what the problem is with how chip use Chris TO’s…if I’m going to criticize and second guess, I would be more concerned with the play calling in the redzone late in the game. I don’t care who you are playing against, the strength of this offense is its Offensive Line and it’s run game…so If We are going to lose inside the 5yard line, then I would rather lose on the backs of our Hogs and horses. I know Shady tweaked his knee after that long catch and run, but Bryce isn’t a fumble liability on short yardage…it’s more of a case of when he breaks those long runs he gets careless and starts swinging that ball. First and Goal, pound Bryce behind the Oline 3 plays in a row, even if it’s obvious because Foles has to come into the game. if we are going to fail and settle for a field goal, then I would feel better losing on the backs of our Oline and running backs….and for me, that was dissapointing…Other then that, I don’t have a problem with how Chip coached yesterday’s game…Far from Flawless, but he is a smart guy and will only get more comfortable and adapt better as he gains NFL experience
GEagle . . .
I don’t think the problem was with “old school” thinking.
I believe the problem lay more with Dierdorf’s lack of imagination.
Pretty obviously, you force a team to execute a play until you can’t any longer.
Even if Rivers is taking a knee every time.
So the problem, in my view, was Dierdorf’s — not with NFL-wide “coach think.”
Yeah but it wasn’t really just him…I’m hearing it left and right today and I just don’t understand it…not when the only other options was wasting the entire game clock and then kicking a FG two and a half yards deeper…
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When you have quick strike capabilities on offense, you can’t just conceded that you won’t get the ball back and take your chances with a kicker…not when we are only talking about a few yards….Kick looked like it had plenty of leg on it..you never know but It didn’t look like those 3 yards would have made a difference on that particular kick
Also, both their RB and QB had a history of fumbling. Force them to overcome those before conceding a loss, I say.
also, did you see what was happening with the kicker? he kept running on and off the field. if icing the kicker is a thing (which it isn’t) then Chip Kelly just iced the kicker 3 times. ok so the kicker didnt take his place on the field, but its gotta get in his head when no one is sure if he is supposed to kick it or not!
Great point
I thought the announcers sounded pretty stupid to be honest. We’re talking about an offensive guru, who is planning his next offensive snap here people.
I turned the sound off 5 min. into the game. I have no interest in listening AFC cheer leaders. Diedorf has always been an incompetent buffon.
I think the announcers were just as tired as we were of watching the Eagles attempt something resembling a defense that day, and wanted it to be over with.
RE: Defense
After the game several Eagle defenders were quoted as saying that it seemed like Phil Rivers and the Chargers offense knew what the Eagles defense was doing and there calls. Billy Davis was DC in Arizona when new Charger OC Wisenhunt was HC (sorry too many C’s), did Wisenhunt know Davis’ tendencies and D? I hope someone asks Davis about this.
Somebody did ask Kelly. Said he didnt knew.
They knew. Billy’s press conference concedes as much (echoed by Williams I think), i also heard that Rivers knew when blitzes were coming. The chargers came out on offense, set up and then waited 20 seconds for the defense to reveal itself. Smart coaches.
I was not enthused with Davis’ hiring as DC, this is just more fodder pointing towards his limitations. I would think that Davis would know Wisenhunt’s tendencies and having gone against Wisenhunt schemes in practice could come up with a game plan that would shut it down. At the very least DON’T use the same calls as he did in AZ.
Again, the Eagles didnt win any matchups on D.
It was the same when AR was here, after the first couple years, every DC knew ARs play calling tendencies and then it was about execution. Same here, the players didnt do their job.
Wisenhunt coached a great game, and Billy didn’t disguise well enough…but a lot of the blame goes on the players…When playing against a veteran QB, your LB’s can’t be tipping their hands, and that killed us…That slow clock really screwed with our LBs and they showed their true intentions too many time because they we miscalculating when the ball was going to be snapped. plenty of Blame to go around, but plenty of things that can really help are easily corrected
it looked like we were playing a lot of 3-3-5 nickel defense. curious why we wouldn’t switch to a 4-2-5 in the nickel instead. graham-thornton-cox-cole with barwin-kendricks behind them.
Kelly doesn’t like losing, so maybe he’ll make Davis adjust his pass-defense strategy. I hope they have enough time to fix some things before Thursday…
Kelly doesn’t like losing . . .
He better get used to it, ’cause there are no East Carolinas on his schedule for the next 4.975 years. (Jacksonville is two seasons away, I think.)
If Kelly has trouble, serious trouble, handling 5 or 6 losses in a 16-game season — which generally means play-off qualifying football — Kelly’s going to die of a heart attack . . . or bail out of Philadelphia and the NFL.
And 5-6 losses every year would mean things are going pretty well here.
Does any coach like losing?
Some can handle it better than others.
NFL assistants live the grind of multiple-loss seasons for years.
College coaches — like Kelly and Saban — not so much.
Kelly lost a lot as assistant at New Hampshire.
But not so many at Oregon
True, but he has still been an assistant on bad teams.
I see no reason to be talking about this. I think he handled his first loss just fine. Stern, but he remained honest and open with the media….yesterday’s and Today’s press conference was fine, and he was really candid with Angelo Cataldi this morning…..So far So good with his handling of Losses…..Does yes today’s loss hurt. Yes? but it’s probably a lot easier to bear when everyone else in the division is losing, and no one is running away with this division this season, so it’s going to be a manageable introduction to losing for Chip this year…ATleast I think and I hope 🙂
There’s a difference between losing and learning, and losing and doubling down. I’d like to think Kelly is in the former category.
Not experimenting with a 4-2-5 is squarely on Davis. I think Graham and perhaps Curry ( we can’t really tell b/c the Eagles won’t let him get on the field) are better pass rushers than Barwin.
I did enjoy that one play where it looked like Rivers was trying to start a fight with Cox after the whistle, and Cox just tossed him to the ground like Raggedy Andy.
Chip just admitted that it’s on him, and that he didn’t know he could have called a Timeout to get Vick back in there….there will be plenty of lessons that he will learn, but I don’t put that one on Chip….I put that on Vick and Pat Shurmur….These guys have been in the NFL for Ages! Someone make sure Chip is aware of the rule!!!!
I’m with you here. Isn’t that why Chip hired an offensive NFL coach? Vick running out of bounds on that play killed me. You have to know the situation. Either Vick was told to run out of bounds or he did on his own, either way, you need to milk the clock.
I 100% do not agree with a fade from Foles. I thought that was a terrible all around call. I thought the purpose of the offense was high probability plays with mis-matches. When at any time, was that a mis-match?
re: Fades
when Momah was on the preseason roster
if we are going to be stopped in the redzone, I can live with being stopped on the backs of our workhorse(The Oline and RBs)…Bruce is not the fumble liability on short yard that he is on long yards…First and goal inside then 10, we need to milk clock, give the Oline a chance to win this game. pound them 3 times in a row before settling for a FG…If they stop that, I can live with it…and If they stop it on the first two run plays, Go WildCat with the 10 best blockers on the field, direct snap to the running back!!!
Wolff went from 8 snaps against the redskins to 48 snaps against the chargers(3 safety looks must be factored in)…But Chip just said that he doesn’t know yet Wolff is starting on Thursday. Seems like they really do like him but he isn’t there yet…and both his NFL ability and not grasping this defense yet seem pretty evident to me.
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it’s pretty obvious that Wolff doesn’t know what he is doing yet because you see two different players…At times you see a player that is questioning his responsibility, hesisitating and that’s all it takes to fail in the NFL…but you
Know when he knows what he is doing, because when he play fast and decisive he absolutely looks like a promising NFl safety.
I agree, and even though i would certainly rather see Wolff than Allen out there, I dont think Wolff is ready either. I really like his speed and i love the fact that he WILL tackle. I mean, really tackle, like old school tackling.
I am however starting to entertain the idea that if we’re 0.500 around the trade deadline, to trade a 2nd rounder for Jairus Byrd. With Byrd back there, I’m willing to bet on Fletch and Cary as CBs and it will free up Chung to play in the box and Wolff to play in 3 safety sets. Imagine Wolff and Chung with the same job as the 49ers safeties – stop everything in front of you, while Byrd patrols the deep zone.
Then get me Clowney or Barr in the draft and hope Vick at least keeps up the way he is playing and agrees to an average contract.
Bryd improves the entire team exponentially…other then giving up a 1st round pick, I’m ok with giving up whatever for him…especially a day after learning we allegedly don’t have Kapernick because we didn’t want to give up a 2nd round pick
I rather just wait for FA. I dont want to give up a 2nd round pick for maybe 8-10 games of safety play and then have to pay big money anyway
Fair….but for me a guess the answer lies with how much do you think we will improve over the course of a season. Young players, and guys that have only been playing together for 5 months improve. Even without Byrd we will have a chance to win the division and get in the playoffs….but how much better will we be in January is the question…If we are destined for 1 and done playoff birth at the best, then I can wait to add Byrd in FA….But if we are going to be a much better team in January then now, then I would strongly consider getting a guy that will make so many other players better
Even with Byrd, I think we are a 1 and done team unless the D improves drasticly or the Eagles O can score 40+ points each game, but then Byrd does not matter
Maybe….I guess I wouldn’t do it now, but at the deadline evaluate how much our defense is growing, and if you project this offense to be firing on all cylinders in January, and the defense continuing to improve then I’d consider it at the deadline…but I think you have swayed me into not giving up a 2nd rounder right now
I think thats a fair statement, but then, you’re competing with 31 other teams. Some will have a better roster than us, some will have more cap space and some will pay Byrd far more. Hell, maybe a team will fulfill 2 or all 3 of the above. If we trade for him, obviously we’re going to demand that he signs a long term contract we can live with.
As mentioned, I would only do it if we were around .500, since that would most likely mean that our pick in the draft wont be that high in the 2nd round that i can be considered a first rounder.
To be honest, with all the talks, true or not, about Byrd demanding a trade, with his injuries and the fact that he was already tagged once, i’m starting to think that his price might not even be a 2nd rounder, maybe we can get him for a 3rd or get a third back if offering our 2nd. Maybe Graham or Curry can be part of the deal.
@Patrick – this is true. however, even if we trade for Byrd, we cannot sign him to an extension. that means he is going to hit FA regardless.
so, if we want him that bad, we will have to get him in FA. if we trade for him now, you are really only renting him for the season.
Yeah, I didn’t know that. I thought that was voided when a player was traded to a new team. Would we be allowed to tag him, or is that not allowed either?
@disqus_Hc37mxy9MS:disqus
when we trade for a player, my understanding is that we also trade for his current contract.
the big problem is that there is apparently a time limit to extension negotiations for a player that has been tagged. Buffalo didn’t get an extension done in time so now they have to keep him on the tag until after the season.
i would assume that we could trade for him and tag him again, thus getting his services for next year. i think that would be a little expensive since it would be at least the second year in a row he is tagged. i dont know if he was tagged the year before…
what if…
we trade for him, tag him again next year. during the time he is tagged in the offseason, we negotiate for an extension.
i dont know if that is possible or not! haha
Yes, if we trade for him we still would have to compete with other teams for his services…It’s simple with Bryd..show him the money! You don’t get Jarius Byrd unless you are willing to pay for him and our front office knows that…so as much of a die hard Bryd fan as I am, I can comfortably wait til next season if we won’t improve enough this season to have a greater ceiling then a 1 and done playoff birth….Byrds “Wants” make me comfortable that if we are interested enough to pay him, we have a great shot at landing him..
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Byrd never said he wanted to go play for a top defense, but he did talk about wanting to go to a team that’s on the rise and has a bright future…well we happen to be the talk of the town and my guess is that by the end of the season, our futures will look very bright to players all around the league..
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When all you know is Buffalo, I’m sure a market like Philadelphia is very appealing…and It can’t hurt to have a coach he was familiar with in College, and the chance to reunite with his college Safety mate(Chunger)..Signing a big name free agent is a lot like recruiting…and when it comes to recruiting Byrd, I believe we will have as many carrots to dangle as anyone if not more…Who would be our Main competition? The Bengals? even if they already have a much better defense I doubt that Philly can’t compete with Cincanatti if we come correct in terms of money. bengals have a lot of Cap room like we do, but I think they will need to spend a lot more money then we will this offseason to keep our guys I Philly, especially when you consider the discount we will get on retaining Maclin..Good chance Celeks money is gone, and replaced with a rookie contract, especially if they can land a TE who is a great athlete, pass catcher while also being a good blocker like Lyeria…
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.We have a general manager that isn’t afraid to go make the big splash. I think he will be more cautious when signing older free agents, but a young guy in his prime like Bryd, who with a snoop of a pen can absolve you of over half a decade of Safety failures is something I can comfortably say that Howie has to consider…
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This is all hypothetical in that we have no idea if Philosophically our new front Office even believes in paying 50 million on a safety, and if you aren’t, then we aren’t stupid enough to give up good value for a guy we will lose at the end of the year…
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however assuming we are Ok with paying that kind of money for his services, because of all the above listed factors, I can comfortably wait til the offseason if we like him, because I believe few teams can pay him like we can while being as attractive of a situation as we will be at the end of the season……I would hope that we would use Chung as a resource in that, if we are planning on going after Byrd, having Chung stay in his ear about it during the course of this entire season..our front office can’t Tamper him, but there is no rules in place for not being able to call your college buddy
I’m not sure our FO will see giving him the money he wants as prudent. Somebody recently dug up some numbers on the distribution of interceptions in his career. Something like half came in his first few games. I’m not saying he’s not a good player, but I think the eagles would approach him like they do all other acquisitions by trying to get value.
A good comparison is (sadly) Asomugha. A bunch of teams wanted to throw money at him. The eagles sat back with a fair offer for what everyone believed was the secondbest cornerback in the league. Everybody was mistaken, but that was the perception at the time. Byrd, to my knowledge, is not thought of so highly, but wants to be paid as such.
I don’t think he’s allowed to sign a new contract this season under the CBA. So you have to trade for him knowing he could walk at the end of year.
Im not even giving up a 2nd rounder if we totally suck and are going to have a top 5 pick again, but it’s certainly intriguing.
Fletch and Cary might not be gamechangers, but they are good, experienced starters in the NFL and i could live with that if we had a player like Byrd behind them.
It’s not a sure fire fix. Chung might not become better if he can play less deep coverage. While Cary is a great run defender for a CB, he isn’t special in coverage and Fletcher is gifted but he isn’t locking down players left and right, having Byrd might not change that.
What i’m really coming back to when thinking about a trade: Can we draft a player who will be as good or better than Byrd in the middle of the second round? I doubt it. Byrd wants a big contract, yes, but he is also a great player. As far as I know he isn’t injury prone, he doesn’t have off-field issues and he’ll turn 27 in a month. How often do you find that with the 45th pick?
Byrd is at the very top of my wish list….but you can’t resign him to an extension, so even if you give up a 2nd round pick you sill have to compete for his services on the market,..so the question isn’t would you give up the 45th pick for Byrd, the question is would you give up the 45th pick to have Byrd play 13 games for you?…and that complicates the argument
Let the Bird thing go. For one, he’s injured and not even playing right now. Second, he’s franchised, so we can’t negotiate a new contract until next year, meaning we’d be giving up a 2nd round pick for a one year lease. And after that, he’d have all the leverage come negotiating time.
It’s just not going to happen, and it would be an awful move business-wise, especially with no guarantee he’d even see the field THIS year…
It looked like Sconces took the outside coverage, expecting safety help over the middle from Allen. Allen never really got there, but I am not sure how much it is his fault. Sconces is probably used to having Ed Reed out there, and giving more space than what most other safeties can help.
totally agree. Give the man the proper Safety help and he would be just fine!!…Like I said yesterday, he would be perfect if he were complimenting a real playmaking shutdown corner, with a stud safety like Byrd behind him….but he can’t be the best player in the secondary
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funny I heard the word sconces in last nights episode of boardwalk empire lol
there were a few plays like this, yes. however, i did see one play in particular where there were two guys running routes in the area. one WR went one way and the S followed him (he had to, there was no one else there). then the CB on that side (i think it was boykin) didn’t realize that he had to stick so closely with his man and let him go to the safety, not seeing that the S was already covering someone else.
I think overall, Cary,Boykin and Fletcher have covered tight enough early on to where we have hope that they can be good enough, as long as we can get pressure on QBs, and get some COMPETANT safety play, which won’t happen magically and it’s just not going to come from Nate, but there is hope that post bye week Wolff can be ready…but we all know personel wise it isn’t a finished product(secondary)…but we aren’t that far off. Think about it…
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Say you can Add a free agent Safety like Byrd and draft a Good playmaking number 1 CB(doesn’t have to be Revis, a Stephan Gilmore type would do)…Two additions would make us Pretty solid…Let’s just use Robey or Ifo Olomu as an example:
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#1 CB) Brad Robey, with Bradley Fletcher becoming a pretty darn good depth backup
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#2 CB)Cary Williams…good Robin, bad Batman. Would love to have him mentor a talented young CB
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#3) Slot CB Boykin(who will just keep improving) with Poyer backing him up
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Centerfield Safety Jarius Byrd, fantastic athlete, reliable young playmaker
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Chung would then be able to play more to his strengths and roam the box, with Wolff backing him up…Or you have a young player like Wolff grow into a better player then Chung. as a backup, and 3rd safety it won’t get much better then Chung, and also allow him to focus more on ST where he can be a serious weapon
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You then take a 7th round or Undrafted Flier on another CB and hope to get lucky and start finding better Talents then The Brandon Hughes types on our bench
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So while our secondary is going to be the weak point of this defense, it’s really only two good investments short of having all the ingredients of a top Unit…We are a top Free Agent Safety and a High CB draft pick away from a pretty good and deep secondary….and if we want to spend our draft picks on other positions, you can always take another shot on young free agent CBs like we did with Brad and Cary
I would start Fletcher over Williams.
Don’t think you can say that right now…Fletcher has never played a street of football like Cary did in the playoffs..lbut Fletcher is a guy who is still improving so by the time we add a top CB and we have to chose between Fletch and Cary, that very well might be the case…But right now, I would give the nod to Cary by a nice margin
Yeah I don’t know how Bill Davis wants it. If it’s a zone, then you drop the guy you were following and get on the new guy. If it’s man, then they might just stick to the first guy or switch depending on what your plan is.
Maybe we are looking at the pass rush wrong and we should draft some CBs before any OLB. Back when the Eagles were good at rushing the passer (even into the Vermeil and Buddy Ryan eras) we always had good cover CBs and safeties. Ryan’s were in particular underrated with Hopkins, Andre “Dirty” Waters and Eric Allen. Hopkins might not have been as good as Dawkins but he was damn close in his prime and he hit like a truck to boot. With good coverage CBs, the QB holds the ball longer and your pass rushers have more time to get there.
While our D has been though of as going off a cliff when Jim Johnson passed on, that was also the same timeframe Asante, Sheldon and Mikell aged or moved on and we were unable to replace them with others anywhere near as good.
Look at how fast Rivers got the ball out of his hands. Even the players commented on that today. If we had our old CBs and he didn’t have the guys wide open he’d have been forced to hold the ball giving our rushers more time.
I dunno man….I don’t know too many CBs that would have played well behind a non existent pass rush like yesterday….Your front 7 has to ATleast get an average rush on the QB to be able to fairly evaluate your CBs….You saw what they could do last week when the pressure was on..and you saw how much worse they looked yesterday when we generated no pressure. it was bad….but every other teams corners would be bad if the line doesn’t help them
I sort of agree as if you give any good QB any time he’ll find someone.
But here is the thing. They clocked Rivers as getting rid of the ball in a little over 2 seconds. Unless he gets pressure right up the gut there is no way to get there in time. The CBs have to be able to cover for at least 3-4 seconds. They always gave him an open receiver from the start and he’d just turn and throw an instant screen the second he saw any pressure at all.
The CBs have to press at the start and give the DL a few seconds to get there. Obviously, if he’s taking 3+ seconds and has a free and clear pocket that is a problem. I thought our rush did poorly yesterday but with how quickly he got the ball out, I don’t think the DL or blitzers had much of a shot either.
What is the deal with Curry? I see posts in different spots, wanting him to play. I figure coaches must know something more than fans do. To read some of those, you’d think we’re keeping the next Reggie White on the bench
We lost yesterday’s game because we couldn’t get any pressure whatsoever on the QB. We aren’t keeping Reggie on the bench, but given a mulligan you would have to think they would have dressed Vinny yesterday…
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Fresh Legs, short week vs, a pass happy opponent….If he sits a 3rd game, then it’s an issue….however I still think having a 7th lineman who can also back up Cole or Graham in case of an injury is too valuable for the coaches. if its truly a case of the Eagles thinking we have 6 better Dlinemen then Curry, Thats still a much more valuable role to coaches then we think…..especially when the alternative is Remmington
I don’t care if Kerry Rhodes has orgys with Aliens….can we please just take a look. I can’t stomach him going to the Giants and fix the same exact problem that we have….Please just bring him in…if you chose not to keep him, I will be completely on board…but you have to take a look
I’d guess that Chip and Howie are thinking about the next couple of seasons more than this one. This is a freebie year for Chip to install his system and get young guys ready. Why take snaps away from hopeful long term answers like Wolff and Chung for a one year rental like Rhodes? He’s obviously be a big upgrade this year, but this isn’t a team that’s making a run at a super bowl.
Because….Nate Allen won’t be here next year! FACT! Lol
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So right now, you are taking snaps away from a young guy like Wolff(so that you don’t ruin him) and are wasting them on the worthless Nate…Rhodes has No leverage, You offer him a 1yr deal and a starting position for half the season and you get to take away snaps from Wolff, while having a chance at not seeing a complete disaster that is Nate Allen
is our defense bad because:
a) poor coaching
b) wrong players for the scheme
c) defense can’t keep up with fast break football..
100% B, with a little a.
E) You can’t possibly expect a good defense so early in the process!!!
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this isn’t madden, when where you trade for guys with higher play ratings, and draft guys with higher player ratings, throw them in the game in any scheme, and they just automatically play up to a high rating….You don’t get to see a good defense, without seeing the bumps and bruises on the way to having a good defense lol…Does anyone even consider the human element?
Thurs is going to be a very interesting test for the defense. It did seem like the Chargers had an uncanny ability yesterday to either call a timely play or make adjustments/audible at the line to pick up various blitzes.
If Smith and Co. come to Philly and drop 28+ pts on this defense on Thurs. night, then I will be pretty dour on the defense’s outlook.
Tommy, admit it you were close to saying throw him to the Wolffs. I expect more bad puns from you.
I understand what you’re saying about the 2012 defense vs. what we are seeing now, but I have to disagree with you a bit. Hypothetically speaking I would much rather have more talented players who are under performing than less talented players who are playing hard, ASSUMING the more talented players are still playing at a higher level. At the end of the day, style points are meaningless. Yes, the under performing players are frustrating as hell, but results are what matter. When all is said and down, I don’t care HOW a defense finds success, as long as they do, and if the under performing player is still performing better than the less talented player, I’ll take that.
For me, the difference you are talking about is likability. Yes, the over achieving player is waaaaay more likable, but I’m not rating these guys on how much I will like them off the field. That part is meaningless to me in football. You have to produce on the field.
Problem was last year we had talented players who underperformed and gave jackass effort.
Totally understand that. And don’t get me wrong, I can’t stand Nnamdi or DRC, or plenty of the other underperforming players on that defense. But if by the end of the year, that defense proves to have been better, regardless of how much of a jackass effort those guys gave, while our defense shows effort all season long but overall proves to be worse… I’d still prefer last years defense. Like I said, just give me the better defense…
The Eagles defense during the last 10 games was horrible as horrible as they get.
They were horrible. I am not arguing that at all, but there is an argument to be made that through 2 games, this defense is not better, and potentially worse. Again, way to early to make that call, but never assume that something can’t get worse.
You are out of your mind if you don’t think this defense hasn’t already improved drastically from last years pathetic bunch….it’s just the Parameters of what the defense is asked to do has changed
Brandon Albert has a sprained shoulder..He will probably play Thursday but most likely won’t be 100 percent…Lane needs to prepare well, and outplay Fisher
Favre when you meant Rodgers? Amusing. I still say St. Louis Cardinals.
Favre when you meant Rodgers? Amusing. I still say St. Louis Rams.
So what you’re trying to say Tommy is that we don’t want to ‘throw Wollf to the wolves’? (Sorry couldn’t help it!)