Do the Eagles Need More Playmakers?

Posted: October 29th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 298 Comments »

LeSean McCoy and DeSean Jackson are special offensive weapons. Unfortunately, they are the only players that opposing defenses fear.

Do the Eagles need more weapons?

This is a tricky question. Some will shout “YES!”. Other answers will be all over the place.

“No.”

“We need bigger skill players.”

“We need more speed.”

“We need hybrid players that are tough to match-up with.”

And so on.

I think Shady and DJax can be the foundation pieces for an explosive offense. Shady is a special RB. DJax is a unique receiver.

I think you could be a very good offense with them and complementary pieces like Riley Cooper, Brent Celek and Jason Avant…if you had the right QB. Cooper isn’t going to consistently get separation. But he is a big receiver and you can take advantage of his size if you can make tough throws when he is covered, but still “open”. Avant is a terrific slot receiver. He just needs a smart QB that can find him on a regular basis. Celek is a solid TE.

The problem with that trio is that they aren’t weapons. They aren’t going to catch the ball and make things happen. There will be plays here and there, but nothing with consistency. Celek is very hard to tackle, but that’s not the same thing as other TEs who can really run and be dangerous after the catch. These players need the right guy getting them the ball.

Or you can look at teams like the Falcons and Bengals. I think Matt Ryan is overly-criticized, but he’s not an elite QB. Put him on the field with Julio Jones, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Harry Douglas and Steven Jackson and Ryan will get you points. Andy Dalton is a big step down from Ryan. But Dalton leads a good offense because he has A.J. Green, Gio Bernard, Marvin Jones, Jermaine Gresham and Tyler Eifert.

The Eagles don’t have a stud QB or great overall weapons. Let’s set aside the issue of QB for now.

The thing I would like more than any other is for the Eagles to add another dangerous player on the perimeter. It would be great if the player  had average to above-average size. You see the Broncos able to throw WR screens to Demaryius Thomas or Eric Decker. It would be interesting to see how defenses would deal with weapons to both sides of the Eagles offense. It really is a bummer that Jeremy Maclin, Arrelious Benn and BJ Cunningham all got hurt this summer. Cunningham is back now, but we’ve not had a chance to see him in action.

One player that can help is Zach Ertz. He has unusual size and skills. I think his development was hurt by missing the spring. Ertz has the physical ability to make plays. He’s just not a consistent player right now.

The Eagles offense needs RAC yards. That’s a big weakness right now. Cooper just isn’t elusive. Avant lacks the athleticism to be a weapon. I would like to see Damaris Johnson used more. Kelly obviously doesn’t like something about his game, whether size, speed or even practice habits. I would like to see another player added that is dangerous with the ball in his hands. This could be a big guy or small guy. Just needs to be someone that can make the first defender miss and turn a short gain into a longer one.

I have no idea if Mac will return next year. Does make a lot of sense for one season. Mac gets a chance to show he’s healthy and the Eagles get to test him in Kelly’s offense. There is risk for both sides. I’m fine with bringing Cooper back, but not projecting him as the starter. I don’t have much interest in bringing back Avant. I love the guy, but in this offense you really do need someone that can catch short passes and then make something happen. That’s just not Jason.

I also wonder if Kelly will want a small WR/RB type. Try to imagine Damaris a bit thicker and definitely faster. Kelly loved those types of guys up at Oregon.

Up until the last 2 weeks, the Eagles offense had been effective and even explosive. The potential is there. The challenge is being able to move the ball and score points consistently. That’s where improved complementary weapons could help. It would not shock me to see the team spend a couple of draft picks on WRs next spring.

_


  • ICDogg

    Well certainly they need to upgrade WR2. I might take a chance on Hakeem Nicks in FA although he’s been terrible this year.

    • brza

      I’d definitely take a chance on Nicks if the price is right. He’d be a perfect compliment to DJax. Question is can you resign Maclin and offer enough to get Nicks? He’s having a down year but I think Nicks still gets some pretty substantial offers.

    • TommyLawlor

      Nicks fascinates me as well.

      • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

        ewwww… no way. get a young guy who we can mold, not a beat up possesion WR that cant get separation.

        • GEAGLE

          I agree with the meth cook lol…I want no parts of that fragile midget….

          Guys in NTHEIR contract year should be setting the world on fire…see cedrick Thornton..,unless nicks goes on to play with Brees, Rodgers, Brady Or Peyton…I have a feeling he will cash in, and then his career will fizzle…

          Draft your WR, Mike Evans or Allen Robinson,..both explosive big boys! we need a big young stud like Alshon Jeffries…
          ….
          FYI the De, Robert “mighty” Quinn is an absolute beast for the rams

        • anon

          Moreso always injured.

      • eagleyankfan

        If Nicks is available — it’s for a reason — not any reason the Eagles would want him.

      • GermanEagle

        We all know. He’s your lost son, the cousin of your “little ball of hate”. ;)

      • ACViking

        Nicks always seems to be nicked up.

        But in past Novembers and Decembers, the guy’s been great

    • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

      No way nicks, can only use his body to make tough catches. he has zero YAC skills, glorified jason avant lol.. AND he will want a lot of money!! so thats a big ole hell NO to nicks!!

      • brza

        Not saying I want Nicks at any cost. If the price is reasonable he is worth a look though. A guy who uses his body to make tough catches is EXACTLY what we need to compliment Desean. Avant makes tough catches but he is not a guy who will win Fades and Slants regularly in the Redzone like Nicks does. And he does have YAC skills, look at the numbers:

        According to FO 2nd in adjusted YAC or YAC+ among all players in 2010.

        http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/introducing-yac

        In pure YAC yardage he was:

        18th in YAC among WRs 2013
        12th in YAC among WRs 2011
        17th in 2010

        He’s got more YAC than Megatron, Fitzgerald, Nelson, Cruz and Andre Johnson this year even though he’s having a down year.

        • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

          cmon now megatron fitz jordy and cruz and andre are all better WRs. Rather get a WR in the draft and/or trade a mid to late rounder for a young guy, then trade a high pick and/or sign nicks for big money.

          • brza

            I’m not comparing him to those WRs. they are all obviously better. I’m just saying not to knock his ability because he’s got more yac than those obviously good receivers. He’s way better than Avant or Cooper & has a skillset that better compliments DJax than Maclin. He is 25, plays physical, is a redzone threat and has decent YAC ability.
            I agree with you if he wants big money then I’m not interested. Definitely not interested in a trade. but if he can be had for a reasonable price then he’s a good fit.

          • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

            No thanks, he is slow and not a play maker after the catch, he is a beat up possession receiver.

          • brza

            Yeah, you’re right. His age, the tape and the YAC stats are all misleading. He’s clearly old, slow and cannot earn yards after the catch.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e04Q5AihGD4

          • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

            awwww a highlight video.. that so cute!!!

          • brza

            Hahaha. I backed my opinion up with stats but you just disregarded them. I added the highlight video for you because I figured if it was too much trouble to look at the stats and a football outsiders article then maybe the sportscenter approach would work for you.

          • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

            you mentioned he was 18th in YAC… thats not good. lol.. try again. if you cant tell that he is a beat up WR who has lost a step then you should start watching football. and the guy has yet to score a TD this year and only scored 3 last year. The guy cant get any separation and defenses dont fear him at all. so again, try again, and try harder!!

    • eagleyankfan

      I’d vote to upgrade wr1. DJ would be a better wr2 so the team doesn’t have to count on him as much.

      • GEAGLE

        Mike Evans or Sammy watkins( a better prospect then deandre hopkins….come on down

      • ceedubya9

        Yeah, I’d be fine with one of those two. Both offer something different, but still have skill sets that could be effective for this team. I’d lean more towards Watkins, myself. And maybe even Josh Huff in the mid rounds for the slot?

  • PeterAkkies

    Interesting post. I’ve been thinking a lot recently about whether it’s better to have a good quarterback with a great supporting cast or a great quarterback with a good supporting cast. Probably the latter, no?

    Let’s say we draft Sammy Watkins next year but forego picking a top-rated quarterback. He’d be exactly what you describe: a weapon that opposing defenses would have to account for in addition to DeSean and LeSean.

    If only we had our QB of the future already on the roster, the future would look very bright for the Eagles indeed. We could spend all our draft picks upgrading the supporting cast.

    But really, has someone looked into whether teams with a great QB and good supporting cast or vice versa are more successful?

    • Block215

      The teams with the qb are always more successful.

      • ICDogg

        Well, Flacco won the last SB, and Eli’s won a couple of them. I don’t know if either of them is “great”.

        • Patrick

          I see your point, but you can’t argue that they won the SB for their teams. Both team had defenses with great reputations, but it was clutch QBs that won. Neither team had a decent OL, both teams had mediocre TEs and although both teams had some big name WRs, the performance wasn’t as dominating as you could expect of a great supporting cast.
          I’ll take the QB anyway of the week and twice on sundays.

          • Jack Waggoner

            Sure but I think the point is you can be successful various ways.

          • Block215

            They both have the ability to be elite at times especially in the clutch.

    • Jonathan

      Compare Atlanta and Green Bay

    • TommyLawlor
      • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

        the falcons biggest problem is coaching and running the ball. their offense and defense are so vanilla and boring. they need some creative minds over there.

        • shah8

          It was only in 2011 and 2012 that Atlanta’s offense wasn’t DEADLY boring. I never watched the Falcons with any regularity (missed most of Vick’s Atlanta days, having really only watched the 2002 season!), but that kind of product always made me switch the dial. Don’t care if you won games, it wasn’t great to watch, and the fundamental lack of greatness always showed in the postseason.

    • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

      how about we aim for great QB with a great supporting cast lol… get ya mind right.

  • Block215

    I agree with this assessment. The combo of the weapons and qb is the reason why this offense can gain yardage but not put 6’s on the board and wrong win you big games. Their offensive weapons are just not there. I still don’t get the Casey situation. Next year they need a slot guy like Maclin w Jackson. A short ,hands type receiver whose better than Avant and a #1 wide out. Their main goal should be getting that #1 qb who fits best in this system and with these additions I think in a few years their offense will be the best in the nfl, yardage wise, at least

  • SteveH

    More weapons are always good but its not like this offense can’t score without an elite QB, even an average QB performance probably wins us both of the last 2 games.

    I think its easy to get down on the skill position players when the offense is struggling but honestly we’ve left a metric ton of yardage out on the field the last 2 weeks because the QB play has been so poor.

    • ICDogg

      They need a good QB. Not necessarily “elite” though that would help.

  • GermanEagle

    Speaking of playmakers, the probably most head scratching stats for me so far is the following:
    Michael Vick QB Rating, 86.4
    Tom Brady QB Rating, 74.9
    Eagles record: 3-5
    Patriots record: 6-2
    Tom Brady is playing his worst season ever, still the Patriots sit atop of their division, mostly thanks to a defense that mainly consists of no-name players.

    • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

      so whats your point? lol @ comparing tom and vick, just stop it

      • GermanEagle

        My point was that you can be succesful without many playmakers on Offense, just like the Patriots. If you have a Defense that can come up with enough pressure.

        • Anders

          The Pats defense isnt that good. They have just gotten lucky in close games, something that has been proven to be a coin flip of who wins them.

          • GermanEagle

            My point was that their defense came up with enough plays to get them to 6-2. Or in other words they had more to do with the outcome of games than Brady (besides his heroics against the Saints).
            I have also referred to them being able to generate pressure, which is shown by their 24 sacks so far.

          • holeplug

            Pats D is legit good. Currently 8th in DVOA. First time they have had a top 10 defense since 2006.

          • GermanEagle

            Thank you. I can understand though if people continue to underrate the Pats D, but that’s probably mainly because of all their “no-name” players what I said earlier.

          • Anders

            They have been gassed by people running at them. They are good against the pass when Talib is healthy tho.

          • anon

            real teams find a way to win. Brady plays bad they run the ball w/ power running and the d makes stops. that might be where we need to go right now if we can’t get qb production.

          • holeplug

            Their probably gonna slid the 2nd half of the season with Mayo and Talib going down tho. Don’t except them to stay in the top 10.

        • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

          yeah if only we had a HoF QB that has a bunch of rings.

          we signed chip for his offense, we need to get him the players he needs, otherwise why did we hire him??

    • fran35

      If you gave Brady Desean, Shady, and our tight ends he would be blowing up. I believe that almost any other QB put in the current Pats offense would fail miserably.

    • Neil

      A lot of those games, the Patriots had no business winning. Their opponent just wanted to lose more.

  • Mr. Magee

    Yes

    • GermanEagle

      Lol. Very precise, my friend. And I do agree.

  • GermanEagle

    In my eyes it’s almost a toss up between picking a play-making WR or pass-rushing OLB with our first round pick in next year’s draft. You can simply make the case for either one.
    Personally I am leaning towards a guy like Barr, who’d be instantly improving our pass-rush. In fact our pass-rush has been mediocre this season, ranking 25th with only 16 sacks so far. The lack of pressure is one of the main reasons the opposing offenses can pile up many yards agains the Eagles, and despite the Eagles recent success of keeping them out of the endzone, an improved pass rush would make them more competitive in the future. It would be also nice to have TWO competent 3-4 OLBs in this defense, someone who can cover, defend the run and rush the passer. As much as I love Trent Cole, but he’s gone, and I am not so sure if Brandon Graham has a future with the Eagles. So the need at OLB is slightly greater than at WR, even with Maclin becoming a Free Agent next off-season.

    • brza

      I like Barr a lot too. If Bridegwater and Mariotta are gone Barr would be the next best choice. We need more pass rush production out of our OLBs.

      I think getting Barr could be difficult though. I think he could end up getting picked ahead of Clowney depending on the draft order. Clowney is a freak and could probably play 3-4 OLB too but if a team that runs 3-4 and wants a sure thing is faced with choosing between the two they may go Barr over Clowney. Murphy from Sanford is an excellent rusher at OLB too.

      • GEAGLE

        The OLBs to go after are:
        1) Barr….a better prospect than Dion Jordan. This kid would come in, and be a Von Miller type of Monster in year one…

        2) Khalil Mack…a small school kid, many people see a young Demarcus Ware when they look at him…kid can rush from OLB,DE and even DT
        ..
        3) Clemsons Vic Beasly. Explosive player, need to add 15 LBs..

        4) BYU’s Van Noy

        Bama’s Hubbard…that long, 6’6 OLB type that Kelly likes
        ….
        We desperately need OLB and WR…fortunately, this draft class is really strong at both positions..
        ..
        OLB/DE is one of the three most valuable position in football..We have a BIGTIME need for OLB, and this first round will be stacked with studs that can improve our pass rush…it seems foolish to not adress this crucial position in round 1

        • GermanEagle

          A lot will depend on the Free Agency though. If the Eagles can somehow sign Orakpo, they won’t necessarily have to get an OLB with their first round pick. Plus gimme Jairus Byrd and the Eagles can easily go offense [WR] early in next year’s draft.

          • BreakinAnklez

            Orakpo needs to prove he can stay healthy an is fully recovered from his torn pec muscle….in back to back years.

          • GEAGLE

            Impact OLB who can be a double digit pash rusher! and a safety who will be the best player in our secondary needs to be added…..I’m fine addressing these positions in FA, but we can’t fill these roles with bargain guys….Orakpo is the only free agent OLB good enough for us, and he will take ATleast a 60million dollar commitment……Byrd would cost about 50 million
            ….
            We certainly need to add an Impact WR…but out of the 3 positions, safety,OLB and WR…OLB is the most highly valued position of the three…and when it also happens to be a major strength in this draft, seems like a no brainer to me….Especially when I look at what will be available in rounds 2 and 3…..I like the WRs that will be available after round 1, much more than the OLBs that will be available..
            ……
            Out of our 3 major positions of need, Safety is the one that’s hardest to find in this draft class, so that’s the position I prefer breaking the bank open for in free agency, assuming the birds think Byrd is still worth the money…

            I think our best bet at filling those 3 positions with the best quality players is…

            1) 50million dollar safety in FA
            2) OLB in Round 1
            3) WR in round two(I think Allen Robinson in rd two has a chance to be as good a NFL WR as anyone in round 1)

            Question, i have seen some Mocks that at have Evans falling to early round two….is that really possible?

          • Anders

            Orakpo is not getting 60 mill dollars unless its a super long deal. Paul Kruger got 40 mill over 5 years for the Browns.

            Byrd is not getting 50 million dollar either. Goldson got just over 40 million and he does not have foot problems. Expect Byrd to get around 6.5 per year over 4-5 years.

          • GermanEagle

            GEAGLE made a valid point though: the chances of signing both guys in Free Agency are relatively slim, mainly due to the heavy financial implications.
            If I was Howie though I sure would try to find a way to get them. That would be a helluva free agency and hence start to the next off-season.

          • Anders

            100% correct. Orakpo might not even make it to FA.

          • GEAGLE

            Kruger had 4 good playoff games…I feel like Orakpo is much more highly touted than Krugs was when he hit FA…Orakpo is also in FA heaven, since he is the only top player at his position,..you have to think teams will drive up the price for him….ATleast Byrd has safeties like Ward and. Clemons to compete with…teams won’t feel like they are screwed if they miss on Byrd…the drop off between Orakpo and the next best OLB is high!

          • Anders

            Kruger was also clearly the best of the bunch last FA.

          • GEAGLE

            Fair point

          • Tom33

            If you look at recent history, the only real Impact WR’s are taken in the first or early 2nd rounds (Calvin/Andre Johnson, Dez, AJ Green, Jordy Nelson, D. Thomas, Julio Jones, ….). If (big if, mind you) they can get a guy like that, it makes Desean, Shady and whoever is playing QB better. So, if they are in a place to grab one of the top 2 guys I would like to see them go that way.

            Doesn’t mean they don’t need impact players at OLB and a bunch of other places, it just means 5th round WR’s from Florida don’t dictate coverages.

          • holeplug

            They don’t really need a star though just someone better than Riley Cooper which shouldn’t be too hard to find.

          • GEAGLE

            Allen Robinson, big body, explosive WR from penny state will fall to round two. And I don’t know that 2 years from now that there will be a major drop off from round 1 Mike Evans and round 2 Allen robinson
            “….
            How do people view Sammy’s ceiling? I know he is a better prospect than his ex team mate, Texans rookie Hopkins…but I’m finding it difficult to figure out who his NFL ceiling compares to…

            I view Evans as a young David Boston type…
            ..
            We don’t talk about Lee, but if Barkley convinces Chip that he will be his 2014 QB, then reuniting Barkley and Lee might not be a bad idea

          • D3FB

            I prefer Cody Hoffman over Robinson. Hoffman is bigger and has put up stupid production in that BYU offense, which isn’t exactly an air raid. Sammy confuses the hell out of me. His freshman year he was amazing. Last year he struggled a bit, and this year every time i watch him he is terribly inconsistent. Evans makes me drool. Lee I’ve seen compared to Maclin alot. That scares me a bit. Obviously its only October and we have a long way to go and lots of film to watch before May and the draft but that’s where I stand right now.

          • GEAGLE

            I’m aware of Cody, but need to see more of him..and both Sammy and Lee confuse me at this point

          • Anders

            Sammy Watkins is a Hakeem Nicks type WR. Watkins is faster than him tho. So he is a WR1 type wr who will need double coverage. He isnt on the level of a Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson tho.

            Lee is a lot like Maclin, but he is breaking more tackles. Also Lee comes a pro style offense where Maclin came from a spread offense.
            A guy Im really high on is Ty Montgomery from Stanford. He got great size at 6’3″ 210. He got great speed (I would guess 4.4) and he is a play maker on both offense and returns.

          • Stormbringer

            Allen has really been improving lately. He might not get to where he would have before the injury but he’s getting to the point where he’s OK and can hold down the position without being a liability.

          • GEAGLE

            Yes…to be fair, Nate is playing much much better..

            The problem is that i don’t believe a secondary comprised of Cary,Brad,Boykin,Wolff and Allen is good enough,.,if you bring back Allen, then you have to get a star somewhere in your secondary….but if you add a star like Byrd at safety, he could be the playmaker that allows our CBs to be good enough…..your secondary needs a playmaking stud…Allen is the one that is hitting FA, so I think the quickest path to having a good secondarin place is upgrading that position by letting Nate walk and adding a playmaking safety

          • Anders

            Ad a playmaking safety, keep Allen as competition for Wolff and draft a Calvin Pryor or an Avery Patterson in the later rounds.

          • GEAGLE

            No..Nate can’t stay! He brings nothing to ST’s…Chunger is already under contract, and is fine competition for Wolff, and unlike Nate, Chunger will play like a madman on ST to help us win….I don’t think Chip will ever be ok with a backup safety who doesn’t make a serious contribution on ST…

          • fran35

            I still think that Wolff can grow alot. Who knows-he may become a playmaker when his timing and knowledge grows. Certainly has the physical ability.

        • Anders

          No to Hubbard. Give me Trent Murphy over him. He is same size, but is actually producing for Stanford.

          • anon

            personally i’d leave pac 10 players alone.

          • Anders

            Its good that the pac-10 does not exist any more :P (sorry could resist).

            I do not see a problem with pac-12 players.

        • Stormbringer

          Barr’s great but he’ll be gone top 5. We won’t pick that high. I think Khalil Mack will be really, really good. He did really well against an OSU team where half the kids will wind up in the pros. Beasley reminds me of Bryan Smith. Not that big, nor a special athlete type of kid who is good in college and not in the pros.

          • Anders

            Mack should be really good in the NFL. Maybe not right away, but he will be good.

            Beasley is a lot more like Bruce Irvin than Bryan Smith

          • Stormbringer

            Agree on Mack 100%. He can do more than just rush too. He’s a complete OLB.

            I’ve seen Beasley down for a 4.68 time in the 40. Bruce Irvin ran in the mid-high 4.4 range. Unless Beasley’s time is vastly wrong he’s way too light to be that slow.

          • GEAGLE

            Mack will be a monster…kid already has 3 INTs this year, two returned for TDs..he single handedly destroyed the OSU oline

          • Stormbringer

            I’d be well pleased if we got Mack as not only can he help our rush but he is really a well rounded OLB, old school style.

          • GEAGLE

            Mack/Barr opposite of Barwin, makes us set at the most important position in a 3-4

          • GEAGLE

            Normally I would say that no shot Barr falls out of tee top 5, but I don’t think this is a normal year. It’s a special draft year.

            Teams are so desperate for QBs, that i expect QBs to be over drafted this year, seeing as many as 4 in the first 5 picks….take for Example, the Texans..they have a good team in place and they are just short of a QB…they can afford to trade draft picks to move up into the top 5…so if you are a team like the Giants, that doesn’t want to draft a QB, you will definitely let the texans trade up a few spots to secure their QB, knowing that he can still get a defender or OT when you pick…the Texans aren’t going to care about BPA…they need to get a QB at all costs…this is also a really good OT class and recently OT has be become popular top 10 pics…
            ….
            If Barr doesn’t jump Clowney as the first defender drafted, we could get lucky and see him fall to a range where we only have to move up two spots to go get him. Everyone is assuming Giants go defense, but I’m not so sure…they will lose a WR in FA, their window to win with Eli is closing…if they aren’t going to draft a QB, then they better get Eli some help, and it wouldn’t shock me to see them add an OT or a WR…the steelers will prob pick ahead of us, and I think it’s safe to say they need OT and WR. As much, if not more then defense….I think the falcons are there X factor for Barr….they will pick ahead of us. Stylistically Barr isn’t the best fit for what they run on defense! but he is a special athlete that may be too good to pass on. Our saving Grace would be them going OT as well…if Barr gets passed the falcons he has a chance to fall in a range we can trade up too…

            Fortunately if we miss out on Barr! Khalil Mack will be there for us!! He is a special destroyer at pass rusher..reminds me of a Ziggy ansah who can rush from OLB,DE and even DT…Mack already has 3 INTs this year two of which he returned for TDs…

          • Stormbringer

            I think the Giants will take Clowney or Barr. They just drafted Nassib who at least one draft service picked as the top QB prospect last year. They don’t run the read option at all so he may be a good fit for their offense.

            I do think Barr has a good shot of overtaking Clowney as Clowney really hurt his draft stock (as far as possibly going #1 or first defensive player even) with all the talk about not wanting to play with his concerns about getting injured. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him but there are a lot of shoddy teams drafting this year and it will be really difficult to get a top QB or Barr. Wish some of these guys came out last year when no one at the top wanted a QB.

          • GEAGLE

            There is a very good chance the giants add a defender at the top of the draft, and Barr is certainly special enough to talk about leaping Clowney….there is a chance tho, that the Giants elect to go OT, or even WR…Giants have always put an emphasis on drafting WR, and they will lose Nicks…I don’t think their Oline is good enough to where they can not consider Mathews and Lewan…and if they don’t upgrade that offense then they might as well start the Nassib era,..but if they want to prolong the Eli era, then they need to upgrade what they have at the moment, and when they lose nicks! they will really need to upgrade…
            …..
            If the giants pick 3 or 4th, I believe they will trade back. A team like the Texans can’t afford to not get their QB, And they will most likely need to jump ahead of a few QB needy teams…..I have a feeling most of the QBs will go in the top 10…once teams see the first 3 come off the board, teams will get desperate and start over drafting them… If there is a QB frenzy in the top 10, some very good players will fall a little bit…I just don’t see a way that we won’t ATleast be in range to trade up a spot or two to get Mack, if we don’t get lucky and see Barr fall…..praying Clowneys stock rebounds and he is the first defender drafted…Then it’s not completely out of the question to see teams take Mathews and Lewan over Barr…Louis Nix is also good enough to where a team that is set on the edge like the rams, could pass on Barr and add an interior force like Nix….Barr is the ultimate long shot. I seriously doubt he will be onthe board when we pick…but, I do think there is a possibility that he falls to a spot where maybe we only have to move up two spots to go get him…and adding a monster who would be a Von miller type of force from day one! is certainly worth moving up two spots to secure….like I said! fortunately we have an AWESOME plan B in Khalil Mack that will most likely be available

          • BlindChow

            Hey, don’t sell us short. It’s entirely possible we pick that high!

          • Stormbringer

            Not sure whether to be pleased or disgusted if that happens. I’d probably be OK with it as it is only year 1 of Chip and better set a strong foundation now.

            It does seem like there are some really crummy teams this year. Unless we crater like last year (end the year with no wins) I just don’t see us being that bad. Even then, we still have teams with no wins that seem like they’ve given up on the season already.

      • GEAGLE

        Sure a team that plays 3-4 could definitely go Barr over Clowney..,
        ….
        Fortunately the bad teams at the top who would consider passing on QB and OT, mostly play with 4 man lines…think about it, stylistically Clowney is a better fit for the Bucs!Vikings, Giants and Falcons,,,while Bucs and Vikings could use QB…and Falcons,Bucs, and Giants could all use Lewan and mathews(OTs)…

    • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

      get the defensive guys in free agency. we need a QB and a WR.

      • GEAGLE

        There are no OLB in free agency unless you want to give Orakpo 60 million dollars…

        If you want a stud OLB, then THIS is the draft to do it… Barr is special, but he is far from the ONLY OLB that can help us…there are about 5 OLBs that we would be lucky to get…and we only need one OLB, since Barwin is so damn awesome

        • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

          We need a QB. id rather sign orakpo then use a high pick on OLB. Buy me a S too.

    • Anders

      I just want BPA.

      If we pick 10th overall (current draft position). Its hard to say who will be there, so suggesting taking an OLB only makes sense if he is the best player.

      • TheRogerPodacter

        this is what i’m leaning towards. pick your favorite from the best WR, WR/RB tweener, QB (???), OLB, S, CB. heck, do we consider an OL that early?

      • GEAGLE

        I think we are fortunate in that, when we pick in the 8-15 range, the BPAs will mostly be positions of needs for us..the best players in that range will probably be:
        Barr if he falls
        Mack isn’t lasting til 20
        WRs, Lee,Evans,Sammy
        Louis Nix III a monster NT that would be perfect addition
        haha Clinton Dix safety
        And some Olinemen like Cyrus…
        ..
        Nothing is luckier than drafting in a range where all the BPAs are positions of need

        • D3FB

          I don’t like Mack that high. He isn’t explosive off the ball and most of his sacks come on power moves. 2nd round target at best in my opinion.

          • GEAGLE

            I think there is a better chance of Mack moving up into the 7-12 range, then there is of him falling to round two….I think there is a better chance Vic falls to round two, but ultimately I expect ATleast 4 OLBs to go in round 1, Barr, Vic, Mack! Van Noy…BAzler is also going in round 1, but some view him as an ILB while others view him as an OLB…kid from Stanford And Hubbard, I would say have the best odds of falling to round two

          • Stormbringer

            He did well rushing against OSU and he’ll see a lot of those same players in the pros. He can play the run and cover too. They have him down for a 4.64 40. I like him a lot more than Beasley who is listed as a 4.68 guy and is 20 lbs. lighter and can rush and do nothing else.

        • BreakinAnklez

          G, you like Zumwalt from UCLA as a mid-rounder? Kid was laying the smack down Sat night against Oregon. He could be physical presence we need on the middle.

    • ceedubya9

      I really like Barr too, but there is the possibility of getting a guy like Orakpo during free agency. There will be some talent available for the defense to possibly obtain in FA. But really, if I had to chooose between Barr and Watkins, two picks that could potentially be impactful right away, I really don’t know which one i’d choose.

      • GEAGLE

        OLB is a more valued position than WR

        • ceedubya9

          I guess that is why FA will be so important. If OLB is upgraded in the offseason, do you still take the stud OLB or the stud WR?

          • GEAGLE

            Well we only need 1 OLB …problem is that there really is only 1 OLB in FA that I want,,,the drop off from Orakpo to the next best free agent OLB is significant, which means you probably have to win a bidding war to land Orakpo whom I really like! but he does come with injury Warts,,,if this weren’t such a strong OLB class in the draft,I would probably be pounding the table to land Orakpo…..
            …..
            Safety is stronger in FA then OLB, but safety is significantly weaker in the draft than OLBs…

            So I think it would be best to target safety in FA, and get our OLB and WR in these draft….if we are hell bent on drafting a QB, which I don’t believe to be the case, then things get complicated

  • Konnor Grimek

    “I also wonder if Kelly will want a small WR/RB type. Try to imagine Damaris a bit thicker and definitely faster. Kelly loved those types of guys up at Oregon”
    Sounds Like Golden Tate, who is a free agent

    • Jack Waggoner
      • anon

        tate flashes but hes too small.

    • brza

      Personally I’d love to get DeAnthony Thomas for that role if he’s available in the late 3rd or early 4th round. Instant upgrade in our return game and a versatile weapon on offense.

      • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

        id love to get him as well, if we cant get the WR id want id take him 2nd or even trade up into the 1st. he wont be around in the 3rd or 4th.

      • GermanEagle

        Mate, DeAnthony is a sure first round pick. Some even rate him as a top 10 pick..

        • Anders

          DAT is not a sure fire 1st round and no way is he a top 10 pick.

          Tavon Austin went 8th overall in a weak draft with 0 good QBs or WRs on the level of Lee or Watkins and he also had much better production than DAT.

          • GEAGLE

            DAT isn’t lasting til round 3

          • Anders

            Who knows? Small guys with small productions often fall on draft day.

          • GEAGLE

            Weak RB class

          • anon

            those crazy oregon numbers get people drafted too early.

          • GermanEagle

            He may not be a top 10 pick, but there is absolutely no way he slips into the 3rd or fourth round. I am pretty sure he won’t even last to the second.

          • Anders

            I say late 2nd early 3rd.

          • fran35

            I agree that he could go much earlier than expected. After Tavon Austin went so high last year, nothing would surprise me.

          • BlindChow

            And they are having trouble getting Austin on the field. They mentioned last night he is having trouble picking up the offense.

            Though that probably wouldn’t apply with DAT and our offense…

        • brza

          Really? He’s 5’9″ 170lbs. He’s amazing in college but I seriously doubt anyone is gonna spend a first rounder on him.

          I’ve seen most places have him listed as a 3rd round prospect. Kiper has him as his number 1 RB but he’s pretty much said for the past few years that its not worth drafting RBs in the first round.

          4th Round may be a stretch but 1st round is too.

          For reference LaMichael James was drafted at the end of the 2nd round (61st overall). James had over 1500 yards rushing all three years with a high of 1805. He’s also 25 pounds heavier. I love Thomas as a weapon but his career high has been 701 rushing yards and he’s never had more than 1100 yards from scrimmage. With his injury he probably won’t top that this year either. Plus the fact that he sat when the staff said he’s been healthy for weeks will raise questions too. He’s got tremendous potential but he’s way too risky a pick to justify a first rounder. Second rounder is also a bit risky considering his size and the fact that although explosive he is just a complimentary player and not someone who will likely ever get more than 40% of the snaps.

          • Anders

            Thanks for explaining people it. Sometimes people get caught in the hype of a player.

          • GermanEagle

            DAT is in a different league than LaMichael James..

          • brza

            Exactly.

          • jackpotsdad

            DAT > LaMichael. I’ve watched both extensively. James is bigger, but DAT is more elusive and quicker. He won’t be a top 10 pick, but I can easily see him picked late first or very early 2nd at the very worst. He’s one of the very rare players who can break off for a score almost every time he touches the day. Compare with Gio Bernard, and I think DAT is better in almost every comparable way. He’s also a very good receiver.

            He’s also been very durable. Aside from the freak, non-contact ankle injury, DAT has not missed any other games. He is not Tavon Austin fragile. He’s built like a running back not a WR.

      • mksp

        DAT is easily a 1st round pick. Imagine you’re a playoff team picking in the 20s in position to take best available player – how do you not take a guy as explosive as he is?

        • GEAGLE

          I don’t see him in round 1…my guess is mid to late round two…Seastruck is prob the best back and he may not come off the board til late round 1…when you talk about playoff teams who could use a RB in round 1, last year those teams went with Eddie lacy and Giovanni Bernard,,,,I don’t view DAT, as a guy who will be as valued as those two….not a good year for Rbs

  • http://YoBitch.com/ Enslaved Meth Cook

    i want the skill players to be so fully stocked its a problem. lol

    I want a Big explosive WR that can high point and get YAC, to play opposite desean that will only make him better.

    I want a slot WR is also explosive. (resign maclin and let him play in the slot more)

    AND i want a back up RB that is a scat back, that can be a threat in the passing game. with a lot of speed.

    and im not talking about 5th, 6th, 7th rounders or UDFAs.

    Legit guys.

    I wanted darren sproles so bad!! Him and lesean would of been so much fun. i even wanted danny woodhead.

    So to me if we finnish bad enough to where we do not have to trade up for our QB then id like to trade up from the 2nd round to snatch a WR.

  • eagleyankfan

    Good question on why younger DJ isn’t playing more. Why isn’t James Casey playing more? The way the Eagles went after him, you’d think he was going to be a main cog. Instead, he’s become a wasted pick up. It’s good to think about getting a stud somewhere on offense but the Eagles never seem to go and get that guy so I can’t get excited about discussing it. Eagles have other pressing needs…

    • fran35

      Really weird. Casey was their prized pick up on offense. He doesn’t even see the field. He has got to be pissed off with his decision to come here.

  • GEAGLE

    Look don’t be fooled by the Dallas game…Nick FOles can win games in this league’ especially if you dedicate the rest of the hey year into grooming him.
    FOles can win games!!!! Can he become good enough to where you stop looking to upgrade the QB position? That’s the real question…
    ..
    No matter what rookie QB you draft, we don’t have a good enough supporting cast to be successful, which means you are gambling with a young QBs development…..
    ….
    This article talks about the need to upgrade skill players, finding guys that can take a short pass and make something happen…well if you add a player or two of that ability, and you grow FOles the rest of he the year! he can win some games for you next year….so ignore the QB feeding frenzy of 2014,,,whatever teams aren’t looking for QBs, will have a chance at an absolute STUD at other positions this year in round 1….

    Spend the next draft stacking the rest of the roster with impact players…add the right players in thee next two free agencies…and maybe, just maybe, we will have a good enough roster in place by 2015’s draft, to be able to mortgage the draft, moving up to grab our QB……
    ….
    If we had a good roster in place, I would be ok with going after QB so.but we don’t!!!…we need:
    1) OLB that can record double digit sacks
    2) Big strong, explosive possession outside WR
    3) Fast and athletic slot WR
    4) Impact safety who is the best player in your secondary
    5) ATleast 1 Dlinemen
    6) Most likely need to add an Olinemen
    …,
    Hit on the right players this this offseason, and solidify those positions…that will give FOles a supporting cast that he can win games with next year…

    Give FOles weapons. Explosive weapons that can play with an accurate short and intermediate passer…guys who can catch a six yard slant, break a few tackles and explode up field. Desean is a good player, but he isn’t a true number 1. If you don’t compliment Desean with other weapons that command attention from defenses, then we have seen that Desean can be taken out of games by good defenses…

    An impact receiver should be added in the draft…and I want Howie to make the Saints miserable. we probably can’t steal away Jimmy jam Graham, but I. Do want Howie to try, at the very least drive up the cost!!! We are talking the longest of long shots…but there is a chance Graham and the saints relationship could sour fit hey disrespect him and try and franchise him at TE Money instead of franchising him at WR money. I don’t expect Graham to be an eagle! but I do expect Howie “splash” Roseman to try..

    • anon

      Foles has a durability problem. I’d almost say focus on MB now (for the same reason we focused on Foles before).

      • Andy124

        After 2 injuries? Itchy trigger finger eh?

        The warning flags are up, but that’s all.

        • Tom33

          Concussions have to be the scariest thing these days from a risk standpoint. Surgeries can fix most other things, but not this. You wonder how long a guy like Steve Young would have lasted if he were playing today, with all the precautionary testing.

      • fran35

        Not sure he has an injury problem. I was hopeful of Foles prior to the Dallas game. My common sense tells me that I can’t throw away that hope because of one horrible game. FYI I was high on Foles after last season, so it was only Tampa that made me buy his stock. I felt that last year he demonstrated stability as a rookie on one of the most dysfunctional Eagles teams I have ever seen. All that being said, I have no idea what happened at Dallas. I know Foles limitations, the lack of big arm, the mobility issues, etc, but he played so horribly bad and out of character from what we have seen from him. The sack that he took to get the concussion was insane, all he had to do was throw the ball away-or step out of bounds. Absurd. I was almost hoping that the team would say he had actually got the concussion earlier in the game, which would explain his horrible play.

      • eagleyankfan

        it’s funny — Foles has the durability problem — but not Vick…(not saying you’re saying that)

        • Bob Brewer

          Who says Vick doesn’t have a durability problem?

          If someone does they are in the distinct minority. And incorrect.

          As for Foles he’s start 6-8 games and has been injured to the point of missing games on 2 separate occasions? Not good.

          • GEAGLE

            Yeah but the injuries he is sustaining are common injuries..they are also injuries that QBs aren’t more or less susceptible to,,,,hit your throwing hand on a Linemans helmet hard enough while you are throwing the ball, and your hand is breaking. I don’t care who it is,,,hit a QB in the head hard enoughl he will get a concussion, I don’t care who it is,,sure Concussions are more likely after you already sustained one, but luckily the style of QB that he is, will get all the protection in the world from not getting his head hit while he is standing in the pocket

  • Scott J

    Not to highjack this thread, but how frustrating was it watching Monday nights game and seeing Earl Thomas make those plays!? Argh! It’s so hard to get over that draft!

    • Anders

      Its easy when you realize how much goes into a draft pick.

      Allen had a better or just as good rookie year as Earl Thomas, sadly a knee injury and terrible coaching happened.

      Same thing with Graham vs JPP, Graham had a very good rookie year (not all rookies are Von Miller or Aldon Smith), same thing happened to him.

      I was super happy on draft day to have Graham+Allen because they gave us a great foundation for the future and was no reaches like Jarrett the year after.

      • Scott J

        I agree. I’ve never had a problem with too many of the Eagles drafts. The problem has always been developing the players.

        • Anders

          yep. Coaching is sadly the greatest equalizer of draft picks.

    • GEAGLE

      Seahawks can’t keep the legion of boom together for too much longer.,,I would happily poach any of those boys away when they hit FA….that team better win now, because it’s too stacked to be able afford keeping it together

  • deg0ey

    Really interesting post. I’d love another playmaker at WR, but I think the early picks this season need to be on D. There are areas on offense that you’d like to improve, but I don’t think any of them outside QB would have as much impact on this team as a stud pass rusher or DB.

    I think a one year rental on Maclin would be the best solution. Even if it’s just a band-aid, it puts off having to take an early WR for another season and hopefully gives Chip and Howie the flexibility to target a QB and/or some defensive guys.

    • ceedubya9

      I think that this team will always live or die by the offense. But if there is an impact defensive player there for the taking, then sure, you take him. But I’d be surprised if the defense becomes anything more than “good enough.” And with a high powered offense then that is about all they will need to be. I really wouldn’t mind another standout WR opposite Jackson next year, regardless if Maclin is here or not (I think he might be back on a 1 year though), but I wouldn’t be upset with a pass rushing OLB in the first round either. I think either option would do wonders for this team.

  • GEAGLE

    Today is the trade deadline…wonder how much activity we will see around the leagûe…as for the eagles, I think there is a better chance of us being sellers than buyers today, but my guess is that we stand still

    • GermanEagle

      The Eagles just traded Nate Allen to the Chiefs for a Philly Cheese Steak and some suspenders…

  • mksp

    Curry on the trade block. Get it done Howie. Curry for Byrd?

    Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
    1m
    Players made available to several teams: #49ers RB Anthony Dixon, #Titans WR Kenny Britt, #Eagles DE Vinny Curry. Cowboys need DL help. Hmmm

    • Iskar36

      Ian Rapoport
      ‏@RapSheet

      For the #Eagles and Vinny Curry, they’ve taken calls, not made them. Organization sees his talent. We’ll see if they get an offer big enough

      • Mac

        At this point, I would say that his burst and moves warrant a 1st round pick. Outside of that I’m not interested.

        • ACViking

          Compare Curry to either Rams DE Robert Quinn or Chris Long. Curry’s not in their time zone.

          Curry merits at best a mid- to late-2nd. And if it was JAX, you’d take a 3rd.

          • Mac

            Hence, me not being interested. You know how hard it is to find a guy with Curry’s level of talent. You know better than I how many first and second round busts are out there at DE. Curry has value because he is a proven battle ready commodity.

            Edited to add: The draft is a total crap-shoot. I need ammo that is worth more than what I know I’m giving up.

          • ACViking

            I agree.

            Curry’s not elite.

            But he’s proven and can improve.

    • Anders

      The follow up tweet said this:

      Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet4m

      For the #Eagles and Vinny Curry, they’ve taken calls, not made them. Organization sees his talent. We’ll see if they get an offer big enough

      • Iskar36

        Well… this is awkward.

      • fran35

        What do you think would qualify as big enough? Would we look to get back what we spent? I don’t think that’s possible. For that matter, take any of our Defensive players-with the exception of Cox-that we drafted the past three years in the the early rounds, and their value is nowhere near what we blew on them. And before anyone says Boykin, he was not an early pick.

      • TheRogerPodacter

        sounds like other teams see him being underutilized and are calling up to see what they need to give up to get him. considering the playing time he gets here, i’d be surprised if other teams DIDNT call about him…

    • Iskar36

      Reuben Frank
      ‏@RoobCSN

      A league source tells me an ESPN report that Eagles DE Vinny Curry is being shopped is not accurate. Said Curry will not be traded.

      • ACViking

        “League source,” indeed. Hahahaha.

    • mksp

      Mike Kaye ‏@mike_e_kaye6m
      Just putting this out there from a text message I just got: AFC East team looking into Vinny Curry. Seeing what it will take to get him.

      DION JORDAN.

      • GEAGLE

        Mike maye sources? Lol yeah ok,,,

        What time is the deadline over so I can stop worrying about Curry?

        • Andy124

          4pm

    • GEAGLE

      If we trade Curry, I won’t forgive this franchise. We over rate our own players at times, but that kid has SERIOUS talent! And his entire eagles career he has been jerked around so much that it’s not possible to expect more from him at this point than he has shown…trade Curry and we will regret it for a Long time….I will be disgusted,,
      ,,,
      in other news, Eagles just announce that they have aquired the right to brain Cushing from the Texans for Mike Vick!!! :)

      • Andy124

        Don’t go toying with our emotions young man.

        • GEAGLE

          Lol figured Cushing and his ACL injury made him a plausible target :)

      • mksp

        Serious talent or not, he doesn’t exactly fit the scheme. So get players with serious talent who do.

        • GEAGLE

          Guess what? We play a lot of 4man lines on 3rd down…and Nickle pass rush specialists always have value,…oh the young man hasn’t completely transformed himself in 6 months to fit the scheme enough for your liking lol? With the passion he shows I wouldn’t be surprised if he continues to transform his body into that role given. Other year!!

  • Weapon Y

    Since Bridgewater and Mariota are likely gone before the Eagles pick, the best available quarterback is probably either Manziel or Hundley. At that point, I’m not sure either is good enough to invest in. I’d rather take a freak WR like Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins, or a stud OLB. Not every coach gets their QB in year one. Carroll waited 3 years until he got Wilson, and that was a surprise. How long does Chip have until he absolutely must get his franchise quarterback?

    • Stormbringer

      This is the (probably) only year he will probably get a guaranteed ‘pass’.

    • Anders

      He needs him by year 3 or at minimum be in the play offs with a scrub.

      I agree that after Bridgewater and Mariota, there is a drop off and Im not sure its worth it.

    • D3FB

      Hundley won’t be coming out. Stanford and Oregon exposed him in back to back weeks. He has a ton of potential but needs at least one more year to be ready to come out.

      • Anders

        Hundley has called the NCAA a cartel. It sounded really like he is coming out.

        • Neil

          Man, predicting what 22 year old men are going to do with their lives is pretty hard is what all this talk is making me realise.

          • Anders

            100%.

            There is just some guys where it is pretty clearly they are coming out. I mean we all know Clowney is coming out based on his comments.

      • Mac

        For us it’s not a question of whether Hundley comes out or not, but more a question of do we want him, and at what point is he a good value pick.

        Development is good, but developing a torn ACL or separated shoulder (and having to recover with less than the best care ((see cornelious ingram))) is less than optimal for a young man’s athletic career. In then end, he shouldn’t care about his college program or even technically his NFL program… the smart move for Hundley is to do a proper cost-benefit analysis and make his choice based on that. The likelihood of that happening depends on his “keepers.”

        In the end, we’ll have to trust Roseman and Chip to make the right call depending upon the call Hundley makes.

    • ICDogg

      Since we don’t know where we’re picking, I don’t know who to expect to be available. Let’s say we finish 5-11. We’re still not getting Bridgewater or Mariota. And there will probably be at least one more taken than that before we are up.

      I’m seeing a lot of QB names mentioned as potential high picks. Besides Manziel, there’s Murray out of Georgia, McCarron from Alabama, Boyd from Clemson, Mettenberger from LSU, Braxton Miller (OSU). Maybe one of those guys would fit the bill for us. I couldn’t say.

    • jackpotsdad

      Hundley is frankly vexing. Great NFL body, great arm. Poor decision maker and terrible at reading coverages. He has 64 yards passing with 2 INTs against Oregon last weekend. NFL defenses would yet another level. If he comes out, he’s a project.

      Manziel would be the great X factor. Guy is utterly fearless, and he that special something that elevates a player from good to amazing. Unfortunately, he comes with lots of baggage – he’s immature, self-centered, a douche, and has a built-in media circus. Could become the greatest QB prospect ever or wash out in a couple years of mediocrity because off-field distractions get the best of him.

      The most utterly amazing QB prospect right now is Jameis Winston, but he’s not coming out until 2015 at the earliest.

      • ACViking

        Manziel = Fran Tarkenton

        • jackpotsdad

          I can see the play style differences, but was Tarkenton as wild as Manziel off the field? I mean, Tarkenton formed software companies, not cavorting with coeds and attempting to crash University of Texas frat parties.

  • BobSmith77

    Avant isn’t a good slot WR because of his lack of speed and athleticism. Avant is the kind of veteran WR that teams had maybe 15-20 years ago who was more of a possession guy who would play most on 2 & long and 3rd downs when teams would go to a 3-WR (and sometimes a 4-WR set). Position has evolved a lot in the pass happy NFL & Avant is a poor fit.

    Cooper is best a 4/5 WR. Still can’t figure out why he is somewhat productive when Foles start and a complete no show otherwise. He’ll likely stick around the NFL for a few more years because of his size but I would bet it is no better than 50/50 he is on the roster this time next year.

    I like Celek a lot especially his desire to improve himself. Celek worked incredibly hard to improve at his blocking and now is above average the past 2 years. Kind of veteran you want on a team because of his work ethic and also a guy smart enough to realize that he has to transition his skill set if he wants to stick in the NFL. Just isn’t a play-maker though with almost no separation speed and too many drops. It really hurts this red zone offense a lot that Celek isn’t more of a presence in the red zone.

    As for Ertz, he is still have problems getting on the field. I would have expected that the first month of the season but it isn’t a bit of a red flag that this team talked about multiple TE sets and used them a lot in training camp yet this team isn’t using multiple TE sets with any kind of consistency now despite their incredible struggles in the red zone & overall the past 2 weeks?

    QB is the real problem but the Eagles desperately need someone to set up at the TE position and another WR to complement Jackson to give him some space.

  • austinfan

    It’s not about playmakers, it’s about the right players for this offense.
    Avant just doesn’t fit.

    Cooper may, he had two good games, and if Barkley could have gotten him the ball, he might have had a third. He’s not a #1 WR, but could be a solid #2 for Chip’s system (where the #2 run blocks more than he catches).

    DeSean may not be, he has not shown much as an underneath WR (Steve Smith he’s not), and he can be taken out by man coverage with deep help (he’s not a guy who can go up and get jump balls like Megatron or Dez).

    McCoy is tough, great open field runner who may not fit a zone blocking run scheme where you really want a tough one cut runner who can break arm tackles, if McCoy runs into the holes he should, he’d take more punishment and you’d have to reduce his touches, if he dances, he defeats the scheme.

    Brown is a work in progress, hard to judge.

    Celek is solid, reliable but limited, Ertz is still a project.

    I don’t think they need superstars, they need the right skills, big WRs with a good first step off the line and great hands, but not necessarily deep speed, TEs who are good receivers but only have to be adequate in line blockers (but must be able to block on the second level), one cut RBs who are also good receivers. Most of these players can be found throughout a draft, you don’t need a lot of 1st rd picks.

    • ACViking

      Surprised that Erztz is a “project”– coming from Stanford and all those years in an NFL offense under HCs Harbaugh and Shaw.

      Ertz was nearly a 1st-Rd pick.

      Was he over-drafted? I mean, how many teams use the 35th pick on a “project”?

      Ced Thornton was a project. And he was a free agent.

      • GEAGLE

        Think Tom is right in that missing the summer really hurt Ertz development,,,I expect him to figure it out before the season ends

        • ACViking

          Ertz doesn’t have the size of a Jason Whitten.

          So could speed be a problem for Ertz?

          At the Combine . . . correva come una tartaruga

          • Neil

            I think Witten is a great comparison from Ertz in terms of speed/size. That also might provide the reason for why he hasn’t contributed a lot as a rookie. Witten built his career on the learnable things. Ertz is a little smaller, but he came out way more advanced as a route runner. Learning technique like Witten has to become a hall of famer, I wouldn’t bet on it from Ertz, but I think he’ll be a good TE for a long time.

            With what I’ve heard people say about his blocking, that could be why he doesn’t get on the field more.

          • ACViking

            Neil:

            Whoever made the call on LJ Smith over Whitten back in the 2003 draft really hurt the Eagles. Big time.

            (It wasn’t Reid. He’s didn’t scout and set the board . . . the way Roseman has starting with the 2010 draft.)

            But, boy, I hope you’re right.

      • Neil

        It’s not unusual for WRs and TEs to need a year before they start playing up to their potential, similar to how few RBs can pass protect their rookie season.

      • mksp

        Rookie TEs notoriously take a bit of time to develop.

        • ACViking

          Not a bad argument. And a point applicable to nearly EVERY position on the field.

          For example, likely HOFers Gonzalez and Whitten — each had less than 35 receptions as rookies, then jumped to 80+ in year 2.

          On the other hand, Bengals rookie TE Jermaine Gresham in 2010, with 52 catches. KC 4th Rdr in 2010 Tony Moeaki with 47 in 15 games. Injuries robbed him of a great career.

          [2010 was an amazing TE class with: Gresham, Moeaki, Gronk, Hernandez, Pitta]

          ______________

          But the GREATEST rookie TE?

          The Eagles own Charlie Young, 1st Rd pick in ’73.

          All Pro his first 3 years in the NFL.

          Had 55 receptions in 14-game season his rookie year.
          Avg 56 receptions/year his first 3 seasons (all 14 game seasons).

      • Mac

        As far as I know, Ertz was drafted on potential. He has unusual size, speed, and route running. The knock if anything seems to be blocking and adjusting to the NFL. I’m not sure you can draft a rookie TE who can step in and be competent in both those areas right away.

        The bigger question in my mind is this: How is the under-developed rookie more battle ready than our relatively high priced FA Casey?

        • ACViking

          Ertz ran a 4.76 40-ydd at the Combine — pretty slow and he’s played to that speed so far (according to some).

          His vertical at the Cmbn was a pedestrian 30.5.

          But he had the top 3-cone drill time at 7.08 for TEs

          http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/zach-ertz?id=2540158

          • Mac

            Wow that’s even slower than Riley Cooper.

          • ACViking

            Maybe the speed thing explains Ertz’s struggles?

            Maybe not a guy worthy of the 35th pick?

            Just wondering.

          • Mac

            Certainly possible. Hopefully we will get more consistent play from our QB position at some point to get a better evaluation. So far, the only thing I know for sure is that he needs to spend more time in Avant’s Jugs Club.

          • ACViking

            yes he does. great point

          • Anders

            Ertz has been open a lot when he is on the field. Problem is he is not getting that many snaps and the two weeks he got the most, our QBs sucked it up.

            Ertz is one his way to around 400 yards catching. That is not bad consider how little he has played. If he had Celek’s or Avant’s snaps he would most likely have double the yards.

          • ACViking

            A–

            I’d love to see Ertz more. Personally, I could care less about his straight-line speed.

            There’s been a big investment in him. Get him out there playing.

            And to the “competition chorus,” I say so what. (And what did you expect, a rookie to look better than a pretty good 7th year vet?)

            We’re halfway into his rookie season. Let Ertz get more time. The Eagles are not winning a SB this year. Give him experience.

          • ICDogg

            I think that’s most of the issue. He hasn’t supplanted Celek, and the Eagles are not playing enough 2TE sets to get him a lot of touches. He’s getting open but he has dropped a few too.

  • GermanEagle

    Forget about Vick, Foles or Barkley. The real reason why the Eagle are 3-5 is the fact that we haven’t played The Acho man yet!!!

    • Baloophi

      This is an excellent point.

      • GermanEagle

        Thank you, sir.

  • Cafone

    Assuming Maclin comes back, I think our skill players are not an area of concern. The Eagles need a lot on defense and there’s a good chance they will be spending their first pick on a QB.

    If we want to talk about offensive needs, Jason Peters isn’t getting any younger, but I guess the chances we find his replacement after the first round are slim.

    Anyway… I trust Howie. Maybe he can come up with some talent in FA.

    • holeplug

      They drafted Johnson to eventually replace Peters

  • GermanEagle

    Can we not trade for Mariota tonight???

    • ACViking

      GE (and all):

      On a serious note, what would you be willing to give JAX for their 1st pick?

      Assume JAX will entertain a trade on the premise the JAX’s GM and scouts have already decided that Teddy Bridgewater and Mariota are not prospects as good as either Luck or Griffin.

      • Bob Brewer

        With the number of holes we have to fill, I don’t think I would pay what it would cost to move up to get one of those players.

        • ACViking

          I suspect you’re thinking is the Eagles’ thinking, too.

          Only one QB’s come into the NFL in the past couple of decades and — through sheer excellence — covered up for all the weaknesses on his team.

          Peyton Manning (who, by year 2 of his career, made the Colts great).

          Brady grew into greatness with the benefit of a genius defensive coach and a very good defense.

          Griffin’s Washington team’s being exposed this year.

          Luck’s got some pretty good talent around him.

          (Maybe Laurie should have kept GRIGSON and let Roseman go to Indy?)
          ____________

          There is no Peyton Manning in the NCAA right now.

          Unless the thinking is Marcus Marioto has not only the talent but the drive and the mind that Manning brought with him.

          That’d be miraculous.

      • RobNE

        Dolphins type trade for Ricky Williams. I assume that wouldn’t get it done though.

  • Fred

    Tommy, I’m surprised you described Avant as a “terrific” slot guy then said you wouldn’t keep him? Personally I think he’s serviceable but his lack of speed, size and RAC ability has always limited what he can do. While having a top tier QB would be great both Vick and Foles, for the most part, have played well this year which leads me to believe that either the play calling or the skill players have been the problem. Jackson is a weapon, unfortunately he’s extremely one dimensional and his speed can be countered with a safety over the top on most plays. Shady is a great back, granted, but the likes of Celek and Cooper are far too average to be placing too much blame on Vick and Foles. I’ve actually been very frustrated with Kelly’s scheming on offensive, primarily his insistence of keeping up the run-option charade with Foles or Barkley in the shotgun. That’s exactly the kind of thing he said he wouldn’t do in the summer when he said he’d style the offense to suit the players at his disposal, which since Vick went down he’s failed to do.

    • Neil

      “While having a top tier QB would be great both Vick and Foles, for the
      most part, have played well this year which leads me to believe that
      either the play calling or the skill players have been the problem.”

      Based on what I’ve seen, this is false. When the quarterbacks have played well (not missing open guys in their reads or with their throws), the offense has been devastating. The last two games, the QBs have been awful. When not missing everything as Foles, turning it over every other possession as Vick and Barkley. If we had good QB play all 8 games, we would easily be 5-3. Not bad for how awful the defense was at the beginning.

      • ACViking

        Lesson:

        Great passing QBs can function in any system, make it look good, and win.

        Period.

        Ergo . . . the Eagles do not have great QBs

  • GEAGLE

    TRADE NEWS!!!! Looks like Soap is heading to the Patriots to replace Wilfork…no word yet on the compensation

    • ICDogg

      If they would have traded one of his backups, it would have been a Square Deal.

      • Mac

        Slow clap. Excellent.

    • ICDogg

      Eagles send Sopoaga and a sixth-round pick to Patriots for a fifth-round pick. All picks are 2014.— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) October 29, 2013

    • OregonDucker

      3:41 – “The Patriots and Eagles have had conversations about a trade for nose tackle Isaac Sopoaga and are close to a deal, according to ESPN’s Adam Schefter.”

  • GEAGLE

    The trade is OFFICIAL!!! Eagles traded Soap and a draft pick to the Patriots for a higher draft pick….just waiting to hear what picks were involved!!!

    • OregonDucker

      Hooray, I hope.

      • DamonL86

        What was the cap hit?

        • OregonDucker

          Don’t know the cap hit but maybe GEagle or AC know.

          • goeagles55

            They should save $500k in this year’s cap, $2.75m in ’14, and $3.75m in ’15.

            They could have cut him this offseason and saved $1.75m in ’14 and $3.75m in ’15.

          • ICDogg

            None of the money in ’15 was guaranteed. The 500K they save this year in cap will be partially offset by a player at the bottom of the roster who will move into the top 51.

          • goeagles55

            Right. I guess saying they “saved” $3.75m in ’15 wasn’t the right wording since they would have cut him by then anyway. The deal gives them an extra $1m in flexibility next year.

          • ICDogg

            I think mostly it gives the younger guys more playing time. The Eagles young d-linemen are getting the hang of the 2-gap finally so Soap is no longer required. The cap impacts are minimal.

        • ICDogg

          He had a 2.75M bonus and a $1M salary, which the Eagles have paid half of. They don’t gain much cap space since another player on the roster who was not in the top 51 but now is will take up about half of that $500K they gain.

          • GEAGLE

            The exact trade is Soap and a 6th round pick to the Patriots, for a 5th round pick

          • GermanEagle

            You are aware that Gamble was hired one month before we signed Soap?!

          • GEAGLE

            Not exactly sure where you are getting at….

          • ICDogg

            I know that, I posted it several minutes ago.

            I was talking about the effect on the salary cap, which seems like it will be about a 200-300K gain for the Eagles in cap space.

          • GEAGLE

            Yea I wasn’t really responding to you…more so adding to the overall discussion…you were just the low man on my screens totem poll…my bad for the confusion

    • ACViking

      Total S-T-E-A-L

      Roseman just acquired the draft pick to be used on the Eagles’ next Franchise QB.

      Do I sound skepitcal?

      • GermanEagle

        No, it was for the next Omar Gaithers…

        • ACViking

          Nice call.

      • Andy124

        So, this should equate to us moving up 5 to 10 spots in the draft eh? Maybe 15.

        I’ll take it!

        • ACViking

          Eagles’ 1st Rounder plus the Pats’ 5th for JAX’s 1st?

          • Andy124

            That’d be nice.

      • GEAGLE

        Unless Marriotta falls to round 5, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I. Were you…we traded Soap and a 6th and got a 5th in return

        • ACViking

          It all depends on how Roseman sets the draft board — as he’s been doing since the 2010 draft.

    • RobNE

      I’m not sure I can support anything that helps the Pats

  • ICDogg

    Curry, Geathers, and Thornton are 25, Square 24, Logan 23, Cox 22.

    • GEAGLE

      I’m in favor of anything that gets Logan and curry more snaps to grow..this trade accomplishes that while turning a 6th into a 5th..

      • ICDogg

        Which is the equivalent of 6th round value for Soap.

  • ACViking

    Re: Sopoago’s Cap Hit

    I’m wondering if the Eagles can accelerate the cap hit on the unpaid part of his bonus (though not any guaranteed salary for next year).

    Sam’s the man.

    On the other hand, if pushing it to next year net-net (with other cap gimmicks) is the right move, then that’s what Roseman will do.

    The Eagles have been the *gold standard* for maximizing their cap number every year.

    That’s something, at least . . .

    • GermanEagle

      I can hear your sarcasm, my friend. I can hear it.

    • ICDogg

      Looking up his contract next year’s Soap money is all salary, so the Pats inherit that, and none of it is guaranteed anyway. So there is no cap hit, only a small amount of cap relief for this year.

  • Baloophi

    EDIT (sorry… thought of a better way to say this):

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to spend $299.95 on an authentic Sopoaga jersey.

    • GermanEagle

      You didn’t, did you?!

      • Baloophi

        Thankfully no. Mrs. Baloophi only allows $100 a month for ironic purchases. Be sure to really proofread those vows, fellas!

        • ACViking

          “ironic purchases” . . .

          that is damned funny. damned funny

  • ACViking

    Re: The Wisdom of No Sope

    Bottom line, Sopoaga qua “teacher” wasn’t worth $2.75 MM

    What teacher is?
    _______________

    Serious note: Moving Sope actually creates the opportunity for Davis to be more creative in how he arrays his D-linemen.

    More Thornton at Nose? B-Logan at DE?

    More Fletcher Cox at Nose, especially on 2nd-and-long? A move I continue to advocate.

    Plus more V-Curry at DE

    And Logan at nose, obviously.
    _______________

    At the end of the day, Sope apparently played to the relatively poor statistical analysis of his numbers from last year.

    • Baloophi

      They should have outfitted him with one of those fly-swatters.

      • ACViking

        B . . .

        You write for a living, correct?

        You’re wasting some serious talent if you’re not.

        • Baloophi

          Ironically, I’m wasting time right now that I should be writing.

    • ICDogg

      Transitioning to a 3-4 2 gap, I think you really need an experienced 2-gapping nose. I think Soap was always intended as a stopgap, but he was a rather expensive one.

      • ACViking

        Quick and expensive.

        Never a satisfying combination . . . so I hear.

        • Mac

          Yikes, that comment was so sharp, I just cut myself on this keyboard!

      • GEAGLE

        Yeah I think he served his purpose aiding in our transition until the young guys got comfortable…I’m sure he helped the young guys make the transition while aiding them with weekly study habits and preperation…the young Dlinemen seemed to have grown into their new scheme so if you can dump his salary, turn a 6th to a 5th, while opening up more snaps and reps for Benny and the Jet(Logan and Curry)…then I think it’s a good move…our Dline is ready, he served as our stop Gap and now the veteran gets to finish his career on a contender…good move for everyone involved

  • Baloophi

    RE: Sopoaga trade…

    Read the tea leaves, my friends. This just opened the door for a certain, durable interior lineman…

    • Baloophi

      NOTE: You can also use him to jam said door open.

      • theycallmerob

        huh, I’ve never tried to stick a Geathers in the door before….reckon he’d make a good stop.

    • ACViking

      you’re not talking about bringing Danny Watkins back?

      he was durable in the hands of defenders.

  • Miami_Adam

    So just to roll this forward, we end the season with about the 9th pick, NE ends the season with about the 25th pick. So we trade Soap to move up about 16 spots at the end of the draft. Hmm…

    • GEAGLE

      Or you end up turning two 5th rounders into a 4th rounder,,,or you have an extra 5th to pull off a trade where for example you trade a 2nd and a 5th for a certain player….still leaving yourself with a 5th round pick…

      • Miami_Adam

        All 5th round picks are not equal. Just forget the round. We’re trading a (low end) starter and say pick 175 for pick 158 or so. This is a minor difference. Just for reference, on the trade value chart, this is about a 7 point difference, and the 211th pick (14th to last) is worth about 7 points.

  • DamonL86

    Do we still owe Tampa a 7th rounder next year for Benn or were the conditions not met?

    • ICDogg

      It was a conditional unspecified pick, so we don’t know for sure, but my guess is there will be no further compensation for Benn.

  • P_P_K
    • Baloophi

      That’s not bad!

      • A_T_G

        I heard that he was working on a “I didn’t know what I was doing because of the repeated head traumas” defense. No joke.

        The hairstyle in that link could be exhibit A.

    • GEAGLE

      Lol….I actually have a history with fredEX…lol boy do I have two stories about him lol

      • jshort

        You going to post them. or keep them to yourself?

      • ACViking

        Ci dica!

        • GEAGLE

          Let’s just say, I met Freddie because for about a year we dated room mates,,,Crazy dude, but he was a good hearted dude,,…I have a VHS tape with me and Freddie singing kareokee to a 50 cent song at Coco Bongo in cancun with 3 porn stars from Connecticut lol

          • ACViking

            Jeez-us-holy-crap!

            Where were the roommates?

          • GEAGLE

            Lol…I can go more into detail but I don’t like the way those stories depict me lol. IT was cool at the age of 20, not proud of those times at the age of 31…LJ smith was in our dating circle, but he was pretty boring and mellow

          • ACViking

            Fair enough.

            And the story sounds relatively harmless.

          • GEAGLE

            Got to meet a lot of cool people thru fedex

          • ACViking

            That’s a nice compliment to F-EX.

            I think he ran into some adversity. Lots of people do. And they do dumb things. Athlete or not.

          • P_P_K

            “I have a VHS tape with me and Freddie singing kareokee to a 50 cent song
            at Coco Bongo in cancun with 3 porn stars from Connecticut”

            You’re probably the only person on the planet who can say that with a straight face.

    • ACViking

      Actually . . . a fairly common scheme for tax-refund fraud.

      Mitchell’s mistake was using the name of someone not involved in the scheme.

      For any conspiracy to succeed, you need all the participants — witting and unwitting — to have some skin in the game.

      Freddie tried it a different way. Not so good.

    • ACViking

      What the heck did Andy Reid ever see in that guy?

      Reggie Wayne. Chad Johnson. Ugh.

    • laeagle

      “I want to thank my hands, for being so good at taking from the till.”

  • GEAGLE

    Sorry to change the subject…but someone tell Barkley to shut his friggin pie hole..

    After the game Sunday he threw Chip under the bus, making an excuse that he didn’t get enough reps..
    ..
    Today, he revealed that he had never practiced the botched goal line play other than mental reps…this friggin kid was supposed to be smarter…he obviously needs to learn the hard way, what you don’t reveal to the philly media…Chip said that was a play that all the QBs have been running and have been comfortable with since the summer….yet the first chance this little shit gets, he throws his coach under the bus offering up excuses for his poor play…
    ..
    Not to harp on that play, I talked about why it was a bad call to run a pivot route with Desean! put upon further review that was even a worse play call than I thought…..maybe our QBs are comfortable with THAT play…but i think it was a mistake for Chip not to invert the play….that play call was for a left handed QB…if he wanted to run THAT play he should have switched sides so that Barkley wouldn’t have to turn his entire body to throw to the left side! while Rollin to the left…..wish one of our reporters would think to ask him about that

    • ACViking

      GEagle . . .

      Has Barkley seen the handwriting all ready about what Kelly really wants in a QB . . .

      That is, Kelly wants a QB with the kind if wheels Barkley lacks?

      Yes, Barkley’s approach may not be ideal. But is he trying to edge toward the door?

      Remember how Kelly called Barkley the best interview (w/ Logan) at the 2013 Combine?

      Hmmm. Was Kelly tricked?

      • ACViking

        By the way, Kelly called the play to the wide side of the field.

        On the other hand, Foles won the TB last year with a similar play to the short side . . . and his throwing side.

      • GEAGLE

        I think those are all valid questions,,,he may have been groomed his entire life to play QB ,,,,but to me, he seems rather clueless dealing with being a 3rd string QB, playing for Chip Kelly and dealing with the Philadelphia media

        • ACViking

          Petulant, he seems.
          bambino viziato?

          • GEAGLE

            Bambino Vitziato I think is the perfect depiction for him.

            I have a feeling he will have to learn things in philly, the hard way

          • ACViking

            Humble pie is good for the soul.

          • GEAGLE

            Yes sir”..plus watching entitled brats fall on their face and learn the hard way can be entertaining :)

          • ACViking

            Damn, you’d be one tough coach . . . behind closed doors, of course. All smiles in public.

            Siete sangue freddo

  • mtn_green

    Eagles need so much…
    AR devalued Wr, then had really bad luck with DBS and safeties.

    We don’t know exactly chip’s draft strategy, but Ertz was supposed to be a big BIG toy on offense and it hasn’t worked out so far. TE is really complicated for a rookie that missed OTA and minicamp.

    Eagles fans have been screaming for a high drafted successful Wr since before TO, got one then aren’t satisfied, too little, too one dimensional, no help in red zone. DJ is legit and 2 wr2s are injured. Need Wr. Need OL backup. Need improvement in every defense position.

    Need it all, draft BPA, those teams cited above with lots of toys, they drafted BPA.

    Get QB chip wants, sell two drafts If need be for other offensive toys, go BPA.

    • ACViking

      It seemed like AR didn’t value WRs early on.

      On the other hand, in 2001 the Eagles used their No. 1 pick on a WR. Fred Mitchell.

      Reggie Wayne and Chad Johnson were still on the board.

      It Reid takes Wayne or CJ, then all of a sudden we’re talking about a very different offense for the entirely of Reid’s tenure in Philadelphia.

      That was the Eagles’ biggest miss in the draft during Reid’s tenure. Certainly the most important miss given the position.

      • Anders

        He also took LJ Smith over Jason Witten. Think about McNabb with Witten and Wayne instead of Mitchell and Smith?

      • mtn_green

        Fredex? Oh man

  • Vick or Nick

    is this really even a question?

    We need a 6-4 220 4.4 Stud Wide Receiver.

    …As do a lot of teams.

    • Vick or Nick

      Benjamin from FSU.

      • Anders

        Heard good thing about that guy. I havnt seen him yet, but if you are that size and can run, I would love him.

        • Vick or Nick

          He’s 6-6 215. Looks plenty fast to gain separation. But if he continues to dominate hes going Top 5.

  • xlGmanlx

    Nothing has changed from the fact that they need to upgrade the talent at the backup positions, the best way to do that is through the draft. Repeat after me, this is a rebuilding year.

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