More on the Game
Posted: October 21st, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 261 Comments »Nick Foles did not play well today. But we need to understand the flaws in his performance.
First let’s address the groin issue. Nick has had some issues with a groin injury. Did that affect him in a big way today? Very well could be the case, but that’s not good if it is. Starting QBs must be able to play through injuries and remain effective. Nick was awful today.
As for the performance, it wasn’t a question of talent, but rather execution. Nick didn’t show today that he can’t be an NFL QB. He was making mistakes, not showing physical limitations. These are mistakes that he hasn’t made this year. I’ve never seen Nick so inaccurate with his throws. He was consistently behind his receivers. He was off target when throwing downfield. And we’re not talking about a bunch of difficult throws. Nick was off on some where a guy was wide open and that should have been an easy completion.
I don’t know what caused the inaccuracy. The groin might have been a factor, but that shouldn’t have affected every throw.
Young QBs are going to have off days. I get that. But the performance being so poor and not involving adverse conditions is troubling. Nick was at home. There weren’t weather issues. Nick had his starting OL and skill players.
Nick wasn’t facing a talented defense. DeMarcus Ware missed the game. Dallas has a depleted line. This wasn’t an off day due to some overwhelming defense. Back in 1992 John Elway was 8-18-59 with an INT in a 30-0 loss to Gang Green. The Eagles played dominating defense that day. There were plays today when Foles had 5 and 6 seconds to find receivers and couldn’t get anything done. Foles missed Jason Avant for what should have been an easy TD. He missed a wide open Brent Celek for a good gain. There were times when DeSean Jackson got open behind the CB. The Eagles left yards and points on the field.
Nick was also slow in making reads. He didn’t see open targets. He has had these issues in other games, but not to the extent that he had them today.
These are fixable issues, but that doesn’t mean we can just dismiss them. A QB who does have physical limitations can’t afford to play sloppy football. He can’t make up for mistakes with physical talent. Guys like Nick must play smart and efficiently. That’s the only way they can be effective.
It would be great to see Nick play next week so that we could see how he responds to this. Does he bounce back? This would be another clue as to whether Nick could be a good starter. One bad game is okay. Consecutive bad games would be a major issue.
I don’t know if Nick Foles is the answer at QB. The more information we get this year, the better a decision we can make in the future. I’d love for Foles to be the answer because it would be convenient and the Eagles could then focus on other areas in the draft. But QB is the most critical position on the team. We can’t hope he’s the answer. We need to feel strongly that he’s the answer if that’s how the Eagles want to proceed.
Today was a knock against Foles being the guy. It didn’t seal the deal, but this showing was a bad sign.
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Check out this …
QBs who threw for 80 or fewer yards on 29 or more att. in NFL history: Concannon, Evans, Gelbaugh, Pederson, McNown, Weinke, Lindley, Foles.
— Reuben Frank (@RoobCSN) October 21, 2013
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Good perspective, Tommy. I would also like to express my extreme displeasure of late with Damaris Johnson. He is bringing nothing to the table in the return game, & at times I feel is actively hurting it with some of his decisions. Is there any other option there & do you sense the coaches are possibly inclined to do something?
I was yelling for DeSean to return punts. Try and break something open in a tight game.
Is there really anything Damaris Johnson can do? There really isn’t much space for him to do anything. I think his struggles have a lot to do with the coverage unit.
Tom can you keep an eye on the blocking in the he return game and let us know what is really up with Damaris? Is he getting bad blocking? Or would a good return man be able to make something happen with the blocking that he is working with? Its maddening how little we are getting out of ST…
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Desean has to be involved more returning punts, especially in a game like yesterday where he couldn’t get into the offense and we desperately needed a spark
Physical limitations reduced margins for bad days. Everything looks fine when things are going your way, but when the next defense finds a way to reduce your comfort zone, and you find yourself having to do things you don’t want to do, say…move off your spot in the pocket, if you don’t have that margin, you’re not going to be winning many games against better defenses.
Oh, and to be quite crystal clear, Foles’ problems were pretty evident in the Giants game (particularly in the third quarter), and through the first half of the Bucs game. There were a lot of plays being made such that Foles could succeed with all those TDs. It didn’t escape my notice, and it apparently did not escape the notice of Dallas, with their DC, that they had better make sure Foles has to be the hero. Of course, there wasn’t a cape under that football uniform.
Vick has the cape, and Vick has been covering for the liabilities wrt to the poor WR play and the right side of the line. And Vick, not Shady, is the key element of the run game. When Vick has a bad start, like that first quarter passing against the Giants, it doesn’t spiral down further, he just goes 6-8 afterwards before his injury. When Vick has bad games, like the one against the Browns last year, but the defense kept it close, he manages to scrape together the plays to get that winning drive in. Vick is a quarterback, and not a marginal one. Foles is not, and nobody on the team really wants to humor you otherwise, if I’m reading the body language right.
I agree. Vick could and would have used his legs if the passing game was not working. And it would have kept the Dallas D on their toes. Also it would have helped to at least try two bombs on Desean…I normally don’t like those what if games, but I am pretty sure the Eagles would have won with Mike under center yesterday.
Chip Kelly can say whatever he wants to say in the public, but he won’t fool me. He will prefer an athletic QB in HIS system and that’s why I am pretty sure Foles will NOT be the starting QB next year.
The only thing I appreciate a bit more is the fact that even if Vick is abysmal within 20 yards of the red zone, at least he’ll get there most of the time and get 3 points.
Boy i would have taken those three points yesterday.
Don’t know if you need mobility, you need players that can get open and a QB that can hit them.
On a day like this (missed throws, drops etc.) you definitely could have used some mobility to your advantage, my friend.
I guess you’re talking about all of those wins Vick has had this year and last year…oh, wait, never mind!
Disagree about Foles moving off his spot in the pocket. Pocket mobility has always been one of Foles’ strengths, going back to college. Definitely didn’t look like it yesterday.
I was thinking of some other quarterbacks in general that really likes being able to hit that spot more than is healthy. Carson Palmer is one.
He had no strengths yesterday lol
It wasn’t just a bad game it was a terrible game. I think having a bad game is ok — see Vick against KC. But that was terrible. Thankfully, no turnovers, but i think he just choked. I heard he was getting booed at the Linc – Philly is a tough place to play.
I honestly thought he took the final hit (instead of throwing the ball away or getting out of bounds or just getting down) b/c he wanted to get out of the game. I felt like he gave up.
This was a huge game, might have been too big for him. At least he knows his role as backup is safe. I’d be fine if MB never saw the field again.
this was a huge game?
For outright first place in the division, against a beatable division rival? For the current level of the Eagles, yes it was a huge game.
Also playing well would have gone a long way to him being a starter.
Not really…had he played well yesterday it would have meant very little in the grand scheme of things…playing well would have only made it easier to keep Vick on the bench and continue giving FOles the experience he needs so that he can grow, and so the eagles can evaluate him….but even if he played lights out! half the fans would have just reminded everyone that Kolb played two good games in a row…
I said this in the gameday thread already: it wouldn’t surprise me if we have seen Foles’ last game as the starting QB for the Eagles, if Vick comes back next week and somehow stays healthy for the rest of the season. I know it’s a big IF, but Foles is just not our future. Johnny Football might be…
We don’t need to invest in another scramble / read-option bum. We need a QB who can read, throw, and only run when necessary.
Who would that be when it’s our turn to pick?
Maybe Boyd, but Im not sold on him.
Right now I wants Austin Seferian Jenkins the freakish TE or Vic Beasley in the 1st round and then Johnny Manziel or Braxton Miller in the 2nd
No way Johnny F slips into the 2nd round!
Why not? In 2010 and 2012 there was 4 QBs taken in the first round. I see Manziel as the 5th-6th best QB depending on who comes out.
Bridgewater, Hundley, Mariota, Boyd, Mettenberger will all be taken before Manziel imo.
I know it’s early, but I am postive that Manziel will NOT be taken the 5th or 6th overall QB in next year’s draft. Maybe we can have a chat about this nearer the time with a little cheeky bet. 😉
There is a good chance a team will pick Manziel over one the other QBs. I mean Tebow was a 1st round pick when he should have been a 3rd round pick highest.
You don’t really want to compare Manziel with Tebow, do you?
Manziel is a much better QB, but was just more an attempt to show that teams will do funny things on draft day when it comes to QBs.
Manziel doesn’t compare to Tebow but what about Wilson. He slipped into the 3rd despite winning at two programs and having everything except height. Johnny isn’t the ideal make up for a QB and that may scare off some teams.
hmmm he does have a heisman. Did wilson have that?
No, RG3 won that one.
I’m also one of the few who is higher on Manziel in the NFL than most.
Have you watched any of these guys play? No way Mettenberger goes before him. No way Hundley goes before him, if he even comes out. Would be surprised if Boyd goes before him after he choked on a big stage this weekend.
I have watched every one of those QBs in endless film studies because I want a QB next draft.
There is more to QB than just running around and 1 bad game by Boyd does not hurt is stock.
I think he could definitely slip to round 2, because teams in a strong QB draft could be reluctant to bet on him as the face of their franchise…it also could be a case of teams trading back into the end of round 1 to snag him….however, if I was forced to pick where he lands today, I would say Cleveland takes him with their second first round pick
Manziel is a terrible pick for that offense.
Zach Mettenberger or a similar big armed pocket passer with mobility is what Norv Turner wants
Def a possibility. He has some MAJOR maturity issues. If I am an NFL GM I don’t know if I want to hinge my club on Johnny Football. I also think there are better QB options. I’d personally love Mariota. I think he could star with more time in Chip’s offense.
Problem is Mariota is 100% a top 10 pick and could end up as a top 5 pick.
Right now we would draft 10th overall and there is 3 teams who could leap frog us in Redskins, Steelers and Falcon. So we might end up with him or Hundley.
Unless we make a trade I don’t see Mariota lasting past 5 and I don’t think we’ll draft that high. I have heard that a decent amount of teams are now touting Mariota over Bridgewater due to concern about Louisville’s lack of schedule strength combined with liking Mariota’s running ability.
So far Mariota hasnt faced any better teams than Bridgewater.
Washington was ranked when they played. They might have been overrated but people originally thought Washington was good.
I dont care about win and loses. Bridgewater lost a game to ranked UCF where he played very well.
Andrew Luck lost to Oregon and OS and that was in 2011 where the Pac-12 was USC, Oregon and Stanford and the rest of the teams was less than stellar
Pretty sure the Skins don’t have a 1st round pick this year – also traded for Griffin (they gave up two if I remember correctly)
No, but the Rams will get it and the actually need a QB, something the Redskins does not, so you hope they leap frog us
Yeah, they have the Skins pick and now Bradford has a major (ACL) injury. Before that, it looked like he was improving and they’d go for something other than a QB. Now I’m not so sure.
I’d be more than happy w/ Hundley. Not so much w/ Manziel. Aside from the maturity concerns, his size/frame scares me for an athletic QB in the NFL that will be facing bigger/faster/stronger defensive players. That’s two major concerns I don’t want to risk w/ a team in transition. Guess wrong & the setback could completely derail the team. I think Hundley has the makeup to be an exceptional leader & for me at least, that is a big factor in selecting a QB.
are defender in the NFL really bigger, faster and stronger than a lot of the SEC defenders he is up against every week?
Hahaha…see your point, but “technically speaking” i would have to say yes they are. His size is just one of my major concerns. Even if he was 2-3 inches taller & 15-20lbs heavier, that doesn’t erase the maturity concerns. That’s my point. I’d rather not be the team to take on those risks. I’d rather hitch my wagon holding precious cargo to a horse that’s more reliable over the long haul & could continously get me to my destination, than one that could very well either get me to my destination at record pace or topple the wagon & risk destroying the cargo & losing my livelihood.
What maturity issues? That a 19 year old boy went to a party in the off season?
Come on man, you can’t be that naive…
“And what about Manziel’s antics?
He appeared to be signing an autograph in space while jawing with one Rice defender, a bad spinoff of him being found guilty of an inadvertent violation of NCAA rules concerning signing autographs that led to his half-game suspension. Then just talking to defenders wasn’t enough after throwing his third touchdown pass, so he pointed toward the scoreboard, drawing the penalty. It also drew the ire of Sumlin who with his best call of the day benched his star quarterback.”
“He has to overcome some obstacles, and one, really, is himself,” the AFC general manager said. “He has to prove he has the maturity to lead 53 players, to take it serious. You’re dealing with a lot of people’s livelihood; everyone in the organization will have to rely on him to take it seriously, to not miss meetings, to not be late. It’s one thing if a receiver or running back does that. It’s another if it’s the quarterback.”
“It’s not about his height, it’s how he’s built,” an NFL scout stated. “He’s a smaller-frame guy. He doesn’t have the body type to get bigger, and that concerns you.”
That’s just on the field issues, not even touching on his Justin Bieber-esque bonehead antics off the field. I’m sorry, skilled as he is, he’s not a guy that I’d risk my job over. Could very well be Ryan Leaf 2.0, the next Michael Vick where it’s going to take years & some hard life lessons before he wakes up, or somewhere in between. You like him, that’s your prerogative & choice. I’m just not as sold as you are and I think it’s certainly justifiable.
Everything I have heard is the Manziel is pro when it comes to practice and film room and his team mates sees him as a leader. God forbid a player wants to have some fun in something that he is doing for free.
The autograph thing is not a red flag? Why? Because he wouldnt miss any games in the NFL for that. I could understand if he was a pot head or took PEDs, but a guy having a little fun?
Manziel to the Browns with their second pick in round 1(around the 17th I pick in then to draft)
I live in Columbus and I see Braxton Miller every week. He’s a great athlete playing QB. He came close to being benched two weeks for ago for Kenny Guiton and a decent amount of people still think Guiton is better. Braxton is just a better fit for the Meyer offense. He won’t be prepared well for the NFL as Meyer’s offense does not call for NFL type reads and he is spoiled as Ohio State WRs are normally wide open. Philly Brown, Devin Smith and Dontre Wilson were / are all national level track athletes.
He might pan out as he is a great athlete and does appear to work hard but he’s no slam dunk franchise player, it will take more time and his weakness is as a passer.
Miller for me would be development type QB like Pryor for the Raiders or Kaepernick for the Niners.
I have no clue how Miller’s work ethic is, but if he got the same one as Pryor or Kaep, he has the potential to become a very good QB.
Miller is supposed to have a good work ethic though I don’t know that I’d spend a 2nd round pick on him.
Guiton might be the better pro prospect. He is quite similiar to Morris from Miami in size and skills (though his arm isn’t as strong). He has some wheels too, so he’d be a good passer who can run rather than a athlete who happens to play QB. He’d be available in later rounds too.
Wait for the FSU kid lol
I’d love it if we got him but he will go first the year he comes out unless something bad befalls him. We haven’t sucked enough to get Bridgewater or Mariota this year. I can’t see any way we’ll be that bad next year either.
If we can’t get one of the very top QBs this year and have to take another development QB early (2nd or 3rd rounder), I’d say go for the good passer, who can run and has all the tools. I think Stephen Morris fits that. He’s got decent size, he can run well though he is a pocket passer and he has a cannon of an arm. His hobgoblin has been consistency but that is something they can probably coach up in the pros.
Love me some Jenkins. can’t ever remember me wanting to draft a TE in the top 15, but I I would absolutely Love add him in rd 1, and then Robinson(big WR from penn state)…Jenkins/Ertz working the middle, with Desean and Robinson on the outside (move maclin in the slot on a cheap deal easing his way back from injury)…
In order for us to have an offensive, top heavy draft we would haveto break open the piggy bank and sign two defense studs in FA(Byrd,Orakpo,Raji)..
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Vic Beasly playing some damn good ball, but I think Barr still sits at the top of my rd 1 wish list…like Mack tho too.
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I really really like the crop of prospects in these next draft and I’m not even talking about QBs…I don’t like many secondary players, but a good draft class overall
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Btw Anders, props on your boy Nate..didn’t even notice him yesterday and I mean that as the ultimate compliment..
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Nice seeing Graham,Curry and Meco all deliver the Boom on Romo
One does not just regress from NFC offensive player of the week to one of the worst NFL QB performances of all time. And yet, it is what it is. Strangely, the Bucs defense was rated higher than the Dallas D. All signs pointed to the fact that Foles was going to have a tremendous showing.
Prior to this year, and more specifically this game, I think Foles was more of an X factor. Vick’s strengths, weaknesses and tendencies are well known and you can scheme against those. I wonder if Foles has ever been the “victim” of a concerted game plan centered around his weaknesses, his shortcomings? Great QBs tend to be able to overcome schemes against their weaknesses because their overall talent only tends to reduce, and sometimes eliminate their effectiveness. Scheme against Peyton Manning, and by the next quarter, next half, he has you figured out. Even Vick can sometimes break free with a freakish athletic display.
I think the jury is still out as to whether or not Foles can be a quarterback which can transcend opposing schemes by talent / great execution or the NFL has figured him out much like they’ve figured out players like Tim Tebow or Matt Schaub. My guess is that Foles is somewhere between a really good backup and a second tier starter.
You can mention “scheme” and “game planning” as much as you want. The plein and simple problem was that Foles was off target all day long. He couldn’t even make the simplest throws…And that is really worrying. Besides the fact that the Cowboys weren’t scared of the deep ball at all.
Dallas dared Foles to stretch the field and took away the run game. When you take away the short stuff and have no fear of long, chunk plays then the Philly O becomes pretty easy to stop.
Sure Foles played bad. But credit Dallas for contributing to it.
Foles missed throws all over. As. Simple. As. That.
Agree, there was several plays to be made where he just missed his target. We had several wheel routes where he overthrew the target. He had a wide open Avant in the end zone etc.
I was losing faith and then we got that pick. I thought it was divine intervention. I think Foles lost it after missing that throw. Not all games come easy – but you gotta work through the tough spots. I feel like he just gave up.
Greg Schiano is one of the worst head coaches in the NFL. If that team brought in a new coach they would be one of the top teams in the NFC.
If everyone who is acting like they knew this, exactly this, was coming that’d be great. Foles looked like trash, nobody is going to argue that. The fact that he seemed to shrink from the spotlight in a big game is more troubling than the actual performance in the game.
First game he had actual expectations was the first game he played horrid. As Tommy said, there were plenty of opportunities and Foles just failed to deliver time and again. Those failures doomed other parts of the offense.
He probably played worse than Dallas ever hoped for, much less expected.
sure, the rest of the offense didn’t kill, but Foles is te reason the offense did nothing. I was stunned.
Absolutely…but our skill players did NOTHING to help him. No one put us on test it back and made a spectacular play, and when your QB is struggling, you WR and TE can’t be dropping balls that hit their hands..guys have to make catches and help a young QB start getting some momentum. Of course, FOles is drastically more to blame then our skill players, but I though Celek, Ertz,Maehl left too many plays on the field
I really think the fascination with Foles is based solely on hope. Fans realize the Eagles need a QB and hope he’s on the roster. We know it’s not Vick, but Foles really hasn’t shown anything extraordinary that he can be better than an OK starting QB. In my opinion, that simply isn’t good enough.
The Eagles are going to have to find one in the draft, and it can’t be any later than a early second round pick. The probabilities of finding one later than that are just too low.
I feel the same way, hopelessness. When Donny was a rookie and 2nd year player, all we heard Andy say was that he had a 5 year plan. McNabb continued to get better and better and I really bought into his future. He did not disappoint. I had 10 solid years of hope.
When Donny was at the end of his time here, I felt like he lost his game and the best days were behind him. I felt the hope return when Andy put his faith in Kolb and we saw a glimpse of potential. I was bummed to see Donny leave but felt s strong sense of hope the Kevin could lead us into the future.
When Kolb got hurt, Vick came in and was lights out for the rest of the year. I had so much hope and bought into Mike big time. Hell, I even drafted him 1st overall in my 2011 fantasy draft. I bought in that now that Mike was committed for the first time in his career, he could learn how to be a real franchise QB.
Ugh! The last 2 years have sucked any hope in believing Mike is the guy. Then Foles comes along and last preaseason was lights out for a rookie. When he started in place of Mike, I felt the hope come back. Maybe, just maybe he is the guy to lead us into the future.
That’s probably the reason I was so down on the whole qb competition. I didn’t want Vick to win because he gave me no hope. Foles still had time to show us what he could do.
After yesterday, I have no clue what to think. Nick obviously couldn’t make basic throws yesterday. His confidence looked shot as well. I get the fact that anyone can have an off day, but this seemed much more than that.
I have faith in Kelly, but let’s face it, without consistent qb play, he will fail. No coach lasts long without a franchise qb.
Couldn’t agree more. I’d like to “hope” we already had the guy, but then realism sets in & says that in all likelihood, that just may not be the case. So we need to prepare ourselves, do more than our due diligence in scouting the crop of QB candidates & play it safe. QB purgatory as I like to call it, is not a fun place to be.
Plus, let’s say that Foles or even Barkley progress substantially. That’s a position I’d much rather be in than those of the likes of MIN, JAX, ARZ, CLE, TEN & many other teams that “seem” to have finally found a glimmer of hope at QB after years of trial & error…NYJ, BUF, MIA to name a few.
I was really hoping that Foles would do enough yesterday to take the job for the remainder of the year, but he buckled under the pressure of a big game. That game was for first in the division, 3-0 in the division, AND for his job as the possible starter going forward. Foles basically took a shit on the field.
Depending on how long Vick is out for (and assuming Nick doesn’t have a concussion), Foles might have an opportunity to redeem himself, but if Mike can go, I’m going with him.
What i really hold against Foles is actually pretty simple, in the fact that he doesn’t have an NFL arm. If i were the coach, i would hate having to limit my playbook simply because my guy couldn’t throw it, the situation we saw in Minnesota with Ponder and to a lesser extend with Foles and Dalton in Cincy.
Whats scary is that I don’t really rate arm strength. I much prefer a QB who has the mental ability to read a defense and excellent accuracy. I don’t give Joe Flacco many bonus points for his incredible arm, i mean how often do you need to throw the ball 60 yards down and cross the field. It’s undoubtedly nice that he can pressure the ball into an area that actually have been closed, but i’ll take accuracy over that any day. The ability to throw the perfect positioned ball on a back shoulder fade. If Matt Ryan didnt choke like Romo he would be the perfect QB.
Its just really unsettling having a QB who cant make all the throws required.
Don’t take this the wrong way. Not anointing anyone by any means, but just as a comparison, I noticed much more zip to Barkley’s throws than Foles’ & Barkley isn’t considered to have a canon even with a healthy shoulder. So in agreement, I’m not sold that Foles has the arm. However, my biggest concern w/ Foles was always did he had the mental toughness if “he was off” in his accuracy to at least do the smart thing, make the best of a bad situation, but live to fight another day. For example, he made too many dumb decisions (intentional grounding penalty, taking sack which led to his injury instead of throwing through the back of the EZ). If it’s not there, do the smart thing, throw it away. In this case it’s better not to add injury to insult. (Yes, I know that I said that backwards as it was fitting). That play where Foles took the sack & got injured could very well have summed up his chances at proving himself than the fact that he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn all day.
Oh i’m definitely not saying that Foles has all the rest of the marks of a NFL Quarterback, just as i wouldn’t automatically disregard him as a NFL QB just because he doesn’t have a Flacco, Vick or Cutler arm. JaMarcus Russell had that.
Im just saying that i would hate to have a QB who limited me like that, since that can really flatline an offense. We saw it yesterday and we’ve been seeing it in Minnesota for some time now. Thats a team who has AP.
The thing with Foles mental makeup, is that he is by all terms still a rookie.Depending on his own and Vicks injury, there is a very real possibility that in 5 weeks Geno Smith, a highly flawed QB, has more starts/minutes than Foles does. Not to compare them further, but is it any wonder that Luck, RG3 and Russell Wilson has a more developed mental abilities? They have actually been given the chance as the guy and had some time on the field. Not to argue that we should go all in on Foles as our QB, but it annoys the hell out of me that we went with Mike Vick this year. He won the job, absolutely, in impressive fashion, but as i mentioned before. He is not gonna win us a SB, he is not gonna be here next year and with his staying we accomplished absolutely nothing. Even if we make the playoffs, which was always a small chance, we’re gonna get kicked the F#ck out eventually when we face a decent team. Couldn’t we have used the season to find out if Nick Foles was an NFL caliber QB?
I think arm strength had ZERO to do with yesterday. And while he doesn’t have a cannon, I think arm strength issues for FOles should already be put to bed. I literally don’t even question whether he can make NFL throws, I think it’s grossly overblown because of Vicks cannon
But the analysts all say its true therefore it is!!!!! Doh!!
something wasn’t right. that was historically bad. Every QB — even all the HOF ones — have brutal games. Maybe it’s a glimpse of the future. Maybe it’s just a hiccup. Whatever it was — it wasn’t Foles we’ve seen before. Foles aside — I didn’t like the Eagles offensive game plan. I didn’t like Dallas’ offensive game plan either. Why didn’t they throw to Dez more in the first half? Strange. As the announcer said – Dez must have given Romo an earful at 1/2 time.
Celek dropped a pass or two. So did Meahl(sp?). Where was DJ? Was he open and Foles never say him( besides the play he was scrambling to his right on that play DJ was open isn’t fair to judge, he was running for his life). Was the Dallas D that good where Foles became “mr. checkdown”? Can’t wait to read the game review.
Unfair to write anything on Barkley – except he’s a warm body coming into the game.
The thing about checkdowns is Foles wasn’t even taking those this game. The reason his completion percentage before this game was so high was because he usually does take the shorter passes when they’re available.
I saw MeSean jogging on many plays even before he got “hurt”. He’s lost interest again and should be traded while his stock is still high!
wow — what a ton of injuries in the nfl yesterday. You have to wonder if it continues tonight for the Gi-aints 🙂 …
I think it was useful to see if Vick could perform in this offense. He looked good the first two games; then suddenly he couldn’t hit open receivers or get the ball in the end zone. He’s only as old as Romo, right? It would have sucked to cut him, then see him light it up in Oakland or something. Now at least we have a better idea about his durability.
Vick might only be as old as Romo and Eli, but he came into the NFL much earlier and has taken a much bigger beating (even if he was out of the game for 2 years).
I mean he just injured his hamstring on a routine scramble out of the pocket.
Well, obviously we know that now.
ANY one can injure his hamstring on any given play, not matter how fit, old, young, wise or dumb you are.
That is not the point. Point is Vick gets injured. Different body parts every year.
You mentioned “bigger beating” and “injured his hamstring” in one breath which may have people led to believe THAT was the point..
I put a big pause between the two sentences to separate the thoughts.
you mean — his career of never finishing a season — wasn’t enough? You had to see it one more time?
he has one season where he played 16 games, in 2006 when he had over 1000 yards rushing (go figure)
That’s the point. We know what Vick can do. He certain CAN win some games. Vick is a good qb. I never question that. We already know what Vick can do. Maybe now — we’re getting a glimpse of what Foles can do.
Eh, it’s not like he’s getting the same injury over and over (Kolb and concussions). He pulled his hamstring without even being touched. Not like that happened every year.
Say all what you want about Vick, but with him I am sure the Eagles would have won yesterday and if (that’s a big IF though) he only could stay healthy the Eagles would have a legitimate shot at winning the NFC East in what probably is the worst NFC in a long long time .
I don’t care if we need to find out if Foles is our franchise QB (which I don’t think he is btw), I want to win now and although it may only be longshot, but everything can happen in the playoffs…
Also it would be good for the Eagles to get back the taste of winning in their mouth, which is important for the long run.
I agree. I think Vick would have made a huge in difference in what was a very close, and winnable game. His legs would have at least got the team in field goal range, and maybe gotten the team at least 1 redzone td.
Vicks arm might have given us a long TD or two. Jackson was wide open all over the field.
I’m not sure about that. Foles was checking down all the time for a reason. I wish I knew that reason though. But I did not see DJ open all over the field. One play — yes — but Foles was running for his life. T-law will clear this up.
It wasnt only Jackson there was wide open:
http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/2013/10/just-how-bad-was-nick-foles-yesterday.html
Not all of those throws was check downs.
Foles wasn’t checking down all the time. He would actually have to hit an open receiver in order to check down.
Well played 😛
he hit shady plenty of times….
A few of them was designed screens. That is not a check down.
some — not all..which is another question — why didn’t they run more?
No, but also some and not all of Foles pass where check downs.
Against the Bucs, Foles had a YPA of 9.54, that is not checking down charlie at all. That is what Alex Smith or Tom Brady is doing this year
There were only two plays to Shady which might have been checkdowns. They actually looked like the exact same play, with Shady going out to the flat, turning around, and immediately being thrown the ball. The ball came out so fast (and with DJax open both times sitting in the middle just past the line of scrimage) that it may have been a designed play to get McCoy the ball against man coverage.
McCoy’s other four catches were screens. Anyway, I guess two qualifies as “plenty?”
Yeah, I noticed that too. Man, what a frustrating game. Of course the day that the D is actually playing well, the offense sputters.
I’d rather build for the future now, instead of next spring. Foles might not be the answer — and that’s ok — as long as we find out now, not next spring. You’re kidding yourself if you think this team has ANY shot at anything. The defense still stinks.
The defense that still stinks just held a very potent Dallas offense to just 17 points.
Yeah D has improved every week. We get TOs / sacks every week. Getting better on 3rd downs and it’s only half way through the season. I think by the end of the year we might have a D we can be proud of. Did you see that hit Wolff put on Dez?
No, couldnt watch the whole game. Do you remember where in the game it happened?
3rd quarter at some point
Wow, nice clean hit despite what the announcers said. He lead with his shoulder right into the shoulder of Bryant
Sadly that took him out of the game. Dez is a big dude. That’s the first good hit ive seen in the secondary in some time.
Just checked. 4:26 left in the 3rd. It was a slant (of course), and Bryant ran into a Wall of Wolff.
yea just found it, thanks.
Wish I could commit to that (winning that is). I honestly find myself torn. During the game I’m screaming & hollering, cheering for a W. But when they don’t, after about 5 mins of angst, I say to myself, well at least we’re improving our draft positioning. I don’t like this at all.
I think others have said it before, and true, it may be too early to say at this point: but I don’t think the QB of the future is on this team yet. I like Foles, and definitely believe he has a place on this roster, but I’m not convinced that his place is as the fulltime starter. He has the ability to be a starter, but seems like a better no. 2 to me. Chip needs to find his QB in the draft.
I kept wondering why Foles kept throwing the long arcing ball – didn’t see any “zip” on almost any ball. Groin problems cause that?
Anybody else feel as if the refs were letting our CBs get away with some major pass interference yesterday? Everytime Dez was thrown the ball, he had guys hanging all over him. I still can’t believe our offense looked so bad. Foles looked horrible. I am sorry if this offens anyone here, but Chip Kelly is not the “genius” he is touted as. The guys seems lost and makes horrible calls. That long FG at the end of the half was as bad as any Reid decision of the last decade. About a thousand things can go wrong in that situation, but only three points if it goes right. Dumb, dumb decision. I was throwing things at the TV.
And will someone please just cut Damaris Johnson. The kid had horrible decision making and no burst. He is a disaster waiting to happen
Cary Williams for one never turns around and plays the ball – there were a couple of times there were legit PI calls that Cary Williams got away with
That’s what I see as well. He didn’t get flagged yesterday too much, but he got away with at least 2 or 3 that I observed. He is not good, but still is better than DRC or Nnamdi was last year. He at least cares.
Fletcher is physical too, but much better than Williams. I don’t think Fletcher is great, but he is serviceable with a decent CB acroos from him, decent safety play and a decent pass rush….all of which we do not have.
We actually have decent safety play and the pass rush is slowly coming. Safety play and the pass rush is not consistent enough imo.
I agree, the defense has been coming along slowly. The pass rush has seen a jump which is no small part due to Vinny Curry in the lineup. Which begs the question: WTF were they thinking not playing him earlier, at least on passing downs. I understand his run stopping issues, but c’mon. We weren’t getting anything. Graham is done with us after this year. Goodbye, Jerome McDougle. Trent Cole is playing solid and a great guy for the young guys, but his days of being a pass rusher are over. Love his heart and effort though. Geathers reminds me of that old adage: “Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”. He is a waste of freakish size and large amounts of groceries.
Curry was not playing because he hadnt gotten the technique down. It had nothing to do with run defense.
Simply put, Kelly, Davis and Azzinaro wanted to reward Square for doing the right thing opposed to Curry who was rumored to freelance. Freelancing is a no go in this type of defense because everything is based on players doing there assignment.
Chip was touted to be a great offensive mind – guy who thinks on his feet – makes adjustments on the fly – has the balls to go for it on 4th down….whats surprising to see is he has made some very curious decisions in almost every game….yesterday was the 4th and 1 brain freeze of a call….and for the first time in so many games, I could see him visibly agitated on the sideline….
What about the OL – they did Foles or McCoy no favors too….other than Hatcher they have guys off the street playing and I was surprised to see Foles getting pressure quite a few times
will the Steve Spurrier comparisons start again?
Yes, because most sports reporters don’t want to do any real research, but they do want to say “controversial” things to get attention.
The debate is no longer Vick, Foles, or Barkley. It’s now Bridgewater, Mariota, Hundley, Boyd, or Manziel. The quarterbacks on the roster, barring a miraculous turn of events, are no longer relevant. I’m willing to postpone the defensive makeover by one year if it means the Eagles get their franchise quarterback next year.
That was fast you wrote Barkley off.
3 (technically 4) interceptions in 8 minutes. I’m not passing on taking a legit quarterback to give Barkley a chance. At least Foles showed something good last year, and that’s why the Eagles gave him a chance this year (which he blew). Barkley didn’t show any reason why the Eagles should give him a chance. Maybe he does better if he gets another chance, but I’m not gambling the future on it. He was downright awful yesterday and looked more like Ryan Lindley than a franchise QB.
True, but a lot of great QBs have started a game like Barkley.
I hope we see a few more games of him this year, but you are 100% right, if the right guy is sitting there in next years draft, we should take him.
I just find it stupid to evaluate a QB in 1 quarter of work, where he was pushed into action and was trailing by 2 TDs.
Im just saying if that’s the only film we have on Barkley in April (and I agree that I’d like to see more), there’s no way in Hell I’m going to feel ok letting a top quarterback go to another team in the draft. You can’t just project. You actually need to have evidence before you mortgage your future on a 4th round rookie. So far there’s no evidence that Barkley can be the guy and I’ll assume that’s the case until I see otherwise.
Fully agree.
Ive been a long time reader but have never commented before, but after yesterdays game i feel forced to share my opinion. I don’t htink i have ever seen such a terrible performance from the entire offense. The o-line couldn’t open up a hole for shady all game, which is surprising considering that we ran the ball 11 straight times vs the bucs last week when they were expecting it, and they still couldnt stop us. I went to bed immediately after the game because i was so upset. However, looking back Im actually happy about this game. It proves that foles is not what everyone has made him out to be. Ive been a huge vick supporter ever since he came to the eagles, and especially after 2010, in which he was one of the most dominant seasons ever for a QB. I wanted to see what he could do in this offense, and for the first couple weeks i was pleasantly surprised. I don’t think he is the long term answer, but I want to win now and thats not going to happen with foles in there. The only reason he was even succesfull last week was because of the plethora of zone coverage used by the bucs. Yesterdays game proved that foles is not a quality QB and allows for vick to come back for the rest of the season. It also showed that we actually have a defense!!! Who would have thought? I htink the eagles easily win yesterday with vick as the QB, and we might actually have a chance at the playoffs if Vick can stay healthy. FLY EAGLES FLY
Does anyone else wish we had Ryan Grigson instead of that bum howie roseman?
If it meant we magically had Andrew Luck, yes I would do the trade, else not.
Its not just about andrew luck. Grigson managed to create a relatively good supporting cast out of almost nothing, (reggie wayne excluded). He also can’t be as awful as roseman when it comes to drafting
Roseman have drafted the following who is currently making contributions:
Fletcher Cox
Mychal Kendricks
Vinny Curry
Brandon Boykin
Earl Wolff
Lane Johnson
Zach Ertz
Also drafted guys making lesser contributions for us:
Chris Polk
Bryce Brown
Damarius Johnson
traded for Demeco Ryans last year
It is not Roseman’s fault AR and Joe Banner had a hard time drafting and coaching up the talent they drafted and left this team with little overall talent.
i concede. good argument
how many of those guys have pro bowl ceilings though besides cox, boykin, curry and maybe kendricks
andy really did screw us over though, and now hes laughing about it with an increadible inherited defense in KC
All the first guys I mention of potential for that type of play.
if you say so. but that doesn’t mean they will all pan out. I think to say wolf has that kind of potential is a bit too early. same with ertz who cant seem to catch the ball, maybe hes just picking that up from celek, who can make the tough grabs but fails to catch the easy ones
I think boykin, curry and fletch have the most potential out of everyone you named
I think people over focusing on Ertz drops. He has like 1 really bad drop, the rest have been bad throw by Vick and Foles.
i think one thing that people dont focus on is vicks inabillity to throw a pass thats not going 100 miles an hour(obvious exageration). Imagine how tough it is to adjust to a vick pass that only travelss 10 yards. the ball is there almost immediately!
That’s a pretty lean list but it is way too early to judge Roseman one way or another. Going to take at least 2 years minimum.
Roseman has done a good job these past two year, but in reality the last draft is the only relevant one in the argument…GM is only as good as his personel department and Howie cleaned house adding Gamble and some new scouts….so Howie with gamble could be drastically different GM then Howie post gamble..
…
They didn’t go after brand named free agents in Chip and Gambles first free agency period and they still managed to pluck guys that are looking better every week,and have a chance to be good complimentary starters once a few stars are added…Barwin would look awesome opposite a talent like Barr or Orakpo..Cary,Boykin,and Fletcher could be nice if Wolff developes into a good player and we add a playmaker like Byrd..Cox,Thorton,Curry can be even more disruptive if we add a stud anchore like Bj Raji or Louis Nix
If it means that we’d do something stupid like trade a 1st round pick for a running back,t hen absolutely not.
Colts got lucky (no pun intended) that they had a down year at the right time. They beat JAX that year and they end up with the 3rd pick in the draft….
forgot about the trade for richardson. no point wasting a 1st on a running back these days. good point. He has managed to build a defense that can hold manning to only 33, while ours held him to…actually they did’t hold him at all. I know that our defense is in its first year but still
We just held the Cowboys to 17 points. NFLs leading defense held the Cowboys to 16 points.
yeah but hey didnt have a running game without murray. randle doesnt get as many yards as he did against us if hes playing a decent defense. I honestly felt lucky everytime we forced them to punt
and our cbs got away with a rediculous ammount of pass interference
Our defense held Manning to 38. The other 14 were special teams.
you really think we would have stopped manning on those 2 drives?
Just stating the facts.
yeah but its not like our defense would have stopped manning on those 2 drives
As upset as I was yesterday about the game, Im actually encouraged looking back. It means that we get Vick back as the starter and that our defense can actually play (still not great but better than earlier in the season). I knew foles wasn’t what he showed against the bucs or giants, and the only reason people want him to be the starter is because of their hatred for vick. Vick obviously has his faults but I’ve never seen him play as badly as foles did yesterday. He has a higher ceiling than foles even at his old age and a higher floor. I dont remember such a terrible offensive performance by the eagles since the seahawks shutout. Part of the blame must go the O-line, who have vastly underperformed this year. I wouldnt be opposed to drafting a tackle in the first round again and having him play RG until peters is done. Herremens must go!! It doesnt make any sense that the cowboys were able to bottle up mccoy so effectively when last week we literally ran the ball 11 straight times against a better defense that was expecting the run, and they still couldnt stop us. and was is up with running the ball of 4th down out of the shotgun? Sneak the ball line up in the i formation and run behind mathis and peters.
i miss vick from the jacksonville game in 2010.
he had one throw to maclin that was unfrigginbelievable
Foles is done. Time to move on. He’s now a backup till further notice.
Looks like Eagles should have drafted Geno Smith. He would have be better fit for Chip Kelly. Again a lot of clueless drafting …
Eh, I’m not sad the Eagles didn’t draft Geno.
Yea Barkley jumps out at you doesn’t he ….
Maybe his shoulder is already shot
Nice strawman.
Just because I don’t think much of Geno doesn’t mean I think a lot of Barkley.
Yeah, Geno is coming off a good game yesterday, but he’s had some awful ones. People only seem to remember your most recent performance.
Geno may or may not be a grade A QB in this league but his skill sets are more compatible with what Chip tries to do.
If i tried to sell you on a QB that had completion rates in the low 50s. 14 tos to 10 tds. averaging about 250 yds a game. What would you say?
Actually, I do think Geno would look good in this offense. His problems seem to come when the Jets forget about the run game…
or go Wildcat crazy, but who thought Marty would do such things.
No offense. I just get tired of the Eagles thinking sometimes esp in the draft.
Geno’s ceiling is to be a second-tier QB like Jay Cutler, Matt Schaub before the meltdown, and Joe Flacco. I’m not pissed the Eagles didn’t get him, especially when there are probably 5-6 quarterbacks better than Geno available in next year’s draft. In the big picture, if Chip plays his cards right next year, he made the right call by passing on Geno.
would the game have been different if vick was active as foles backup? would kelly have put him in at halftime after we were shutout?
def would have put him in in 4th quarter. we would have had a chance.
Only if he could run.
i think vick is a better passer than foles too. foles could never do what vick did against the chargers. had a few things gone differently vick would have broken the passing yardage mark that game
and where was the increadible accuracy that everyone says foles has? it was obviously inflated by all the quick throw/screens from the bucs game, which kelly has rarely called with vick in the game
Vick looks a lot downfield, but he wouldn’t have choked like he did yesterday. We just can’t play at the linc, think of the last two games there — just unbelievably bad.
true. I think andy is the reason for the curse
Foles’ yards per attempt in the Buccaneers game was 9.5. Q.E.D.
im sorry but both deep passes by foles weren’t great and are inflating that stat. The pass to cooper could be made by almost any qb and the pass to desean was a result of great play design and a soft zone. vick could make either of those throws versus the defenses played. also the screen to mccoy for 44 yards.
i might be wrong but it seemed like we called more screens that game and had more success with them than any other game this year
I agree about Foles not being able to replicate the Chargers game.
Though Vick hasn’t been able to since then, either. The only reason we haven’t felt Vick’s 46% completion percentage over the last 3 games is because he’s moved the chains with his legs. So if he’s unable to run, it’s hard to say how smoothly the offense would go.
even hobbled he can get 6 yds, just won’t be 60.
i would take vick versus the broncos and chiefs over foles versus the cowboys. vick has never been as consistently bad in a game as foles was yesterday
Arizona game last year?
yeah that was pretty bad…but he also didnt have peters that game. and andy reid running the show
was mccoy active that game?
yes he was
Foles has never been as consistently bad as he was against the Cowboys, either.
we also would have won the chargers game if our defense played like they did yesterday
barckley >>>>> foles >>>>>> vick
lol
good one
Ummmm….no
Alex Smith was there for the taking
he would be terrible here. we don’t have the def. or the receivers to make him look good.
He’s not even that good with KC. He’s just a glorified game manager.
I see a lot of people talking about moving up in the draft for a QB. Does anyone think that St. Louis still believes in Bradford. Just last year they passed on RG3 because they thought Bradford was their guy. He is now out for the year. They will likely be awful going forward and get a top draft pick. Would it be too crazy to think they still believe in Bradford enough to pass on another top QB prospect?
The Rams are going to draft a QB with either their own or the Skins draft pick.
Unfortunately after Bradford’s injury yesterday I agree with you. 🙁
This might be a loaded QB draft (depends on how many of the underclassmen come out) but there are a ton of teams (many likely drafting before the Eagles) looking for a QB now.
Haha ACL injury you say? Sam Bradford just hit our scout board.
Right now we are drafting 10th overall and there is currently 5 teams in front of us needing a QB.
I think best bet is to draft a pass rusher or CB at 10th overall and then draft a more development like guy in the 2nd or 3rd.
I don’t think that trade worked out for either party. Rams should’ve just taken RG III, traded Bradford.
Can I just point out that our 3 quarterbacks are all compliments of Andy Reid.
Kelly drafted Barkley
Do’h. Of course you’re right. I am working on combining strong opinions with stupidity so I can jump over to EMB.
over there you just need stupidity 😛
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/eagles-defense-continues-steady-improvement
I love the defensive players mentality.
Giants, Buccaneers, Vikings, Falcons, Steelers, Browns, Texans, and the Redskins. It’s a shame that Eagles aren’t bad enough to get that special QB in the draft.
I don’t care to talk groin or make excuses for the kid. Watched the film again and it was bad, no if ands about it…like really really bad….Unfortunately we need more info to find out what yesterday really meant. like LAwlor, I would like nothing more then to see him play against the giants this week. We are talking about a kid who has started 10 games with very little continuity, so any time he gets connective weeks to play, is huge for both him, and for evaluating him, but it would especially be huge to see how he can bounce back from such a horrible showing..
..
Yesterday was horrible, but it was just 1 game so early in The process. Great or horrible, we weren’t going to be watching a finished product yesterday…he will improve, but how much he improves is the real question…Brady was a 5th round pick who had a horrific showing in his is second year against Rival buffalo! he was really really bad….did that one game mean that he could never be a good player in this league?….
….
Let’s say FOles can never be a franchise QB, and is destined to be a career backup, He still most likely will never look THAT bad again in his career. Without doubt he is a better QB then he showed yesterday, so how much can you really get out of one bad game, when the kid has never been so inaccurate or so indecisive, so while of course you never want to lose to the Cowboys, and you damn sure don’t want to see him play that bad, how much can you really take out of yesterday……I think it be more concerning if he plays decent ball! but isn’t good enough to win games because he can’t grasp the game mentally, or can’t make NFL throws…him playing a decent but not good enough game would scare me much more because that’s more of the lovely you expect out of him,,,if he isn’t good enough, it’s not going to be horrible like last year…Fans who want to see him get extended time do so because we know you have to give him a real shot, and invest in finding out. He was one of the best players in the NFL the week before, yet that wasn’t even close to enough to know whether he was the legit future or not….so it would be foolish to say that 1 bad game later, he isn’t or can’t be the future we are looking for…Even if he set the world on fire yesterday, it may have been good enough for people to get on board going with him the rest of the year to find out how good he can be, but hi lighting the world on fire yesterday wasn’t going to ensure us that he is the answer anyway….so yesterday is just another piece to a puzzle that is almost half complete…but to complete the puzzle, and really be able to know who he is, he will need ATleast, another 7 games of continuity to really be able to get a good idea of what you have in him
You have to play the best players. You can’t just hand a guy a job because he’s younger. It’s unfair to the other guys on the field.
I agree unless the margin is so small, which it has been between the two this year…Vick has mostly been a better, but he also got the benefit of more continuity and practice reps…but he hasn’t been THAT. Much better even with a decade of experience…I haven’t forgotten the turnover filled KC game,the first quarter against the Giants when he couldn’t complete a single pass…I just think the old man with a decade of experience hasn’t played much better then the kid,,,this is the first half of year one in a new offense, so it’s a sure bet that both will grow into better players in this offense, neither are good enough now…one guy played his 10th game and isn’t even close to being a finished product, the other is in his 10th year and won’t be here in 4 months..
“You have to play the best players. You can’t just hand a guy a job because he’s younger. It’s unfair to the other guys on the field.”
Swap in “older” for “younger” and explain why Curry and Graham are having such a hard time getting on the field then? PFF and Football Outsiders show they are getting vastly more production on a per snap basis than their counterparts. Graham has more production than Cole in around 1/3 of the snaps.
Anyone hear Chip with Angelo cataldi this morning? Chip goes on with him every Monday to discuss the previous game,,,,and I know we lost a horrible game, but it’s just incredible how great Chip handles it and still is able to speak honestly…I don’t know if he is just so incredibly honest or I’m traumatized by 14 years of Andy’s press conferences… I actually think I like Chip more after a loss, I feel like he thinks he owes us more! and really answered questions openly.
…
It was cool to hear Chip so pissed off and fired up towards the end of it. I didn’t get the impression that he was pissed off at Angelo and Rhea, I got the impression that the question just got him fired up about yesterday! and I took it as a hint that he wasn’t happy with effort and preperation…he was asked if eye felt the rivalry and he got fired up! talking about he doesn’t care who we play! we better be ready to play like it’s the superbowls we make no excuses,, and he was just fired up. First time I got the impression this season that guys are gettng chewed up tomorrow
I don’t listen to Cataldi for the sake of my own sanity.
neither do I….I. Listen to CHIP on his station at 8am Monday morning,,,and since that’s the ONLY show Chip does….sucks for you lol
I’m trying to remember when the last time an Eagles starting QB looked so hapless.
Detmer vs. Caroling 2004
McMahon vs. Seattle 2005
McNabb vs. Baltimore 2008
Kolb vs. Green Bay 2010
Vick vs. Arizona 2012
All good choices but I’m not sure any of them were this bad.
There were a couple of games in early 2003 where McNabb was obviously injured but wasn’t yet admitting it, and that was when Rush Limbaugh decided to make some remarks that got him fired from doing pre-game analysis. Anyway, in those games McNabb was so off-target it was maddening.
One advantage to Vick being out with his hamstring injury is if there is something else going on causing his accuracy issues, maybe it’ll have healed by the time he comes back…
1st quarter against the Giants two weeks ago lol
Vick was more productive in that 1st quarter than Foles was in the 3.5 quarters he played yesterday lol
I repeat…Vick didn’t complete a pass!!!! And that’s the ONLY thing I Judge QBs on!!!
So I guess you think that Dalton is a better QB than Kaepernick and Rodgers, since he has more yards and a better completion percentage than both of those guys. Or maybe Jack Locker is better than Andrew Luck since he has a better QBR
I didn’t say I judged QBs on passing stats….
…
I like kAp throwing the ball more then dalton, so no I don’t like dalton better. But Yeah, I, like Locker more then luck…
ICD:
With your lengthy experience as an Eagles fan . . . how ’bout these performances:
1966: King Hill/Norm Snead, combined 5-17, 55 yds 0/0 vs. Dallas (Eagles WIN)
1968: Norm Snead, 8-21 for 66 yards, 0/3 vs. Giants
1968: Norm Snead, 6-15 for 55 yards, 0/0 vs. Lions (Eagles WIN)
1970: Norm Snead, 8-21 for 60 yards, 0/3 vs. SB champ Colts
1971: Rick Arrington, 5-13 for 33 yards, 0/1 vs. the Giants
1972: John Reeves, 7-21 for 67 yards 1/0 vs. the Washington team.
1972: Pete Liske, 8-20 for 84 yards 0/0 against the 1-13 Oilers!!!
That first game you mentioned, I think, was key in creating the current rivalry between Eagles and Cowboys. It was a revenge game and we won on some controversial call, though the details are fuzzy. Although our offense stunk, we had some good special teams play.
And then the first game against the Cowboys in ’67 they killed us again.
Re: Tom Brady – Superman
In Brady’s second career start and third game of ’01, after having had a full season soaking up the offense, he had an absolutely unforgettable game . . . .
Brady went 12-24, 86 yards. Pats blown out by Miami 30-10.
In Brady’s 13th career start, he went 11-19, 108 yards — against Miami again.
Pretty impressive, eh?
_____________________
Yes, Foles was bad yesterday.
And he’s not Tom Brady Circa 2007-12.
Foles is just a 2nd-year guy. And he tossed a game that looked kinda like Brady Circa 2001.
The expectations on Foles are getting crazy.
______________________
As for the Eagles next Franchise QB . . . getting Vick back in the line up may help make the offense look prettier.
But how exactly are the Eagles going to get one of the projected Elite QBs?
A trade? With whom? One of the teams that needs a QB? And at what price?
______________________
It was said (by Anders I think) last night that the NFL’s full of “Franchise Guys” acquired outside the Top 10 picks.
Guys like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers
No one viewed them as Franchise Guys when drafted, however.
______________________
The issue here is one of foresight: What the Eagles’ vision is.
Playing Vick accomplishes nothing useful except proving that Kelly’s scheme may require a running QB to lead his offense — which Foles could prove too with another game like yesterday’s.
Sure, the Eagles win some more games with Vick — as they should, given he’s had a decade to play like crap and learn to be a QB.
That’s fine.
And those few extra Vick-lead wins translate into what, exactly, for the long term?
I mean, besides a draft pick that makes getting any of the best crop of QBs in 2014 impossible. (Sure, like Anders said, the Eagles could stumble onto a “franchise QB” in Rd 6. Doubtful, though.)
I really don’t get the logic of Kelly putting his foot to the floor with a QB who’s gone after this year — leaving a gigantic hole in this team.
“Would someone please explain it to me, like I’m a 4-year old.”
Check out Brady’s horrible game against the Bills early in his career..
…
Truth is, another player of here week performance wasn’t going to tell us that he is our future QB, so a horrible performance one week later doesn’t mean that he can’t…
…
Ride out the season with FOles so we can get a real idea
In the Bills game, Brady actually went 15-21. Just couldn’t get the ball more than 5 yards downfield.
That aside . . . I’m in the “Why Vick if He’s Gone in 2014?” camp, as you are.
But we’re not Kelly and Roseman.
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And just to repeat for emphasis . . . Vick is a 10-year veteran who’s had his share of disastrous starts. Foles has had, what, 8 starts?
Vick and Foles are not an apples-to-apples comparison. In any way.
They aren’t even both fruit yet lol…right now it’s like apples to Asparagus lol.. The kid needs time.
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No matter what young QB we ever decide to draft, we are going to have to be patient with him, play him through the ups and downs to allow him to grow into the player we need him to be…It’s going to be a DECADE on THE HAMSTER wheel if we give up on QBs after 8 games lol
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Young QBs need a year and a half of game time, then they need another year or two of playoff experience, and THEN you Truley have a guy that you can start talking about superbowls with…look at Matt Ryan. good player, always been on a good team, number 1 pick, good numbers, starters from day one…last year was the first year that he really arrived as a QB that can compete for a SB…
Just because Foles made a few bad decisions you call him a vegetable? Lets keep it classy.
I LOLed
Better analogy:
Vick = Apples (fruity)
Foles = Apple blossom (delicate and not developed)
Why you gotta go calling Vick a fruit just because you don’t want him as QB? I thought we were above name calling.
I do think Kelly’s system might work with a “lesser,” non-franchise guy. Someone who wouldn’t necessarily be considered a top tier candidate (or who might need some “seasoning” in a more traditional offense) but could be available to us later in the 1st or 2nd round.
As long as he’s mobile, this theoretical QB’s flaws could be concealed by the system.
There are advantages to establishing a culture of “the best man plays” and trying to win games. I can even see this concept outweighing the advantages of a higher draft pick (the draft being such a crapshoot that such winners as Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, and Jake Locker were all top-12 guys). I see a lot of mistrust in the front office here; do we really have faith in them picking the next [insert name of currently-established franchise QB from another team]…
Besides, the players don’t want to tank the season (despite fans clamoring for a low pick); one game out of the division lead might not be the best time to pull the “let’s see what we have” card. I think it would probably do more harm to the team in the long run if you lost the locker room so early in the year.
So, in theory I agree with “let’s go for the high draft pick!” when the team is clearly a few steps down from the top contenders. But it’s just not practical in reality.
ACVicking, I agree with you fully about Foles vs. Vick. The problem is, Chip Kelly insisted on bringing back Vick in the offseason. He then insisted that Vick and Foles have a legitimate competition for the starting job. Vick went on and won the competition by playing extremely well in the preseason. In the preseason, even though Foles did not play poorly, I don’t think anyone can argue in good faith that Vick did not win that battle. If Chip wants anyone to buy into his ideas and maintain the idea of him having an open door to his player and being approachable with his players, starting Foles over Vick simply couldn’t happen once Vick won the preseason competition.
Now lets move into the season. So far this season, Vick has not done anything to warrant being benched for poor play. Fans can argue whether or not he has been great or just mediocre, but outside of the KC game, he certainly hasn’t been flat out bad. So ignoring Foles for now, Chip Kelly has no reason to bench Vick. If we add Foles into the equation, up until this past weekend, he has played very well. He had been making good reads, quality throws, and doing some impressive things in the redzone. That being said, the sample size had been small, and from the coaches perspective, it made no sense to make a change at QB until Vick was back healthy and forced an actual decision to be made between starting Foles vs. Vick.
In the last game, while it is only one game, Foles destroyed a perfect opportunity to allow for a change at QB. Right now, Chip Kelly can not say to his players that Foles has earned a chance to start or that Vick has squandered his opportunity as a starter. Switching to Foles right now would send the message to the entire team that he doesn’t believe in them which is the types of messages that creates what is happening in Tampa Bay. To make the switch to Foles, CK will need to be able to convince his players that Foles gives the team and equal, if not better, chance to win week in and week out, regardless of what it means long term. He was close to having that opportunity last week, but now, he would lose the locker room until Vick and/or Foles does something that changes things.
If you want to say that it is a mistake to have Vick starting over Foles, to me, the mistake happened when they brought Vick back. Once you made that decision though, I think you have to stick to the principle of the best player plays.
That’s the same conclusion I came to. If you don’t play your best players, the players won’t trust you as a coach. So don’t have them on the team if you aren’t going to use them.
Iskar36 . . .
Well said. Well thought.
I keep coming back to Kelly’s decision to use Vick as a 1-and-done guy.
That frustrates to no end.
Guys like him, even with all his faults, don’t fall out of the sky. Hence my frustration with the 1-and-done part.
Nice work.
I wouldn’t automatically assume Vick is gone, unless you’re basing that theory on inside information. If your conclusions don’t add up, check your premises.
Can we assume that a 4-year old is capable of understanding that coaches get fired if they lose lots of games? Playing Vick and putting up an average of 9, 7, 8 wins for the next 3 seasons looks better than playing a scrub and getting 4, 5 wins and drafting a possibly good QB for the 3rd season. I’m not saying that it is better, long-term, but coaches that don’t win get fired.
MWC:
Putting your insulting tone aside . . .
Vick is gone after this season — per Tommy Lawlor, Jimmy Kempski, and every other *THOUGHTFUL* observer of the Eagles.
My comment worked off the premise spoken by Lawlor, Kempski, et al.
Likewise, I rely on the premise that Kelly has a 5-year deal.
One is a hard fact. The other is taken as fact in these parts.
What exactly is the basis for your comment?
Maybe you should re-think your position.
As for your tone, I’d ask you scotch that, too. More than unnecessary.
Hey, AC, just happened to be reading your recent post about the Cowboys game in 1966 when this popped up. Let me apologize that my tone rubbed you the wrong way. I was going for levity, not sarcasm–it was poor communication on my part and I’ll try to be more careful in the future. On to the subject: While I have great respect for Tommy and Jimmy (and yourself), I do not assume Vick is gone if he plays well. Nor will I assume that Kelly’s contract will be honored if he fails to win quickly. Living in Arizona, I know how quickly a city can turn on a team and a coach, despite the early honeymoon and soaring hopes.
Don’t get it twisted…Lurie will give Chip plenty of leash. Way more of a leash then the typical rookie coaches….if we still suck in year 4 then we can talk about Chip losing his job
I’m not saying this is the answer, but a possible answer, and one that is NOT popular on the forums:
Keep in mind the Philadelphia Eagles are a business.
Goal #1 in a business is to make money.
How do you make money with a football team?
By marketing a brand. The brand that our Eagles are attempting to market is exciting up tempo high scoring football, and winning games. Being competitive enough to give hope to the fans, and make fans of rivals hate you.
So, who is your quarterback?
The one who can generate the most buzz and excitement while still giving you a chance to win games.
I know it’s not that simple, but maybe it is…
(And yes, based on this logic Tebow would be the QB in Jacksonville. From an economics standpoint, I am willing to declare their owner a complete buffoon for not riding that wagon. It’s practically a sure sign that his franchise is doomed.)
What a frustrating game to watch. Our defense did a great job and Foles and the offense did nothing. We should have had a nice lead after the first half. I feel bad for Nick. He was given an incredible opportunity and blew it.
I still stick to what I’ve been saying since spring training – our QB of the future isn’t on the roster yet.
Ok..we have had our pitty party and we all know FOles sucked yesterday,but let’s compile a list of yesterday’s silver linings:
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1) two big steps forward for the defense…we have been seeing small but gradual improvements but yesterday was huge for us…we held a high power offense to 3pts at half time keeping us in a bad game…and then they took another huge step forward by creating a big time turnover in a much needed clutch situation..if they keep making weekly improvements like this past month, we will be pleased..
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As horrible as FOles was, he took care of the ball…he didn’t help us or give us much of a chance, but he didn’t murder us with crazy turnovers, giving cowboys offense the ball in good field position and letting them blow the game open. Actually, Meco comes up with that big time INT return, and FOles comes OT aggressive and immediately throws a gorgeous deep ball, that was falling perfectly into Deseans hands before the defender got his finger tip on it and changed the trajectory…that would have been a huge TD and a huge boost of momentum that could have really changed the complexion of the game.
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FOles held the ball all day, so the O line played well other then Todd struggling early..
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Cooper continues to produce and this time he did it against man coverage…Vick made him look like the worst WR in the NFL.
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Can anyone point out any other silver lining?
The defense took a huge step forward, I think. They have been improving for each of the last few weeks.
They are on the way to being what I had hoped/predicted before the season. Don’t give up big plays, make the other team fight hard for yards and points. Let them make mistakes and try to capitalize on them (turnovers). It’s been ugly at times, but as the players learn the scheme and how to play in it (Curry) they will get better, and with an influx of players who hit the roster next year who fit the scheme, hopefully it works well!
I know about the INT’s, but Barkley’s arm looked much better than in August.
And Wolff can hit.
The ints wasnt arm strength, it was just rookie mistakes.
yep, that’s why I have this as a positive.
They were reading his eyes. He needs to do something about that.
Derrick Gunn
@TheRealDGunnCSN
Eagles sign LB Emmanuel Acho from giants practice squad and release CB Shaun Prater
Looks like the Dion Lewis trade’s about to pay off.
I laughed, I cried…
Things I noticed yesterday while sitting in the stands:
The team came out shockingly flat. During introductions the team walked out of the tunnel with their heads down, before the game even started. DeSean and Cooper had particularly horrendous body language. This carried over into the game. DeSean walked around with his head down all game. He jogged the majority of his routes, rarely even looked back for the ball, sometimes he’d just jog into the CB and play patty cake while Foles ran back and forth waiting for someone to get open. Not once, during all of Nick Foles’ running around did Jackson make the slightest effort to get himself open or come back towards Nick. Pathetic performance by him
Cooper while, he ran his routes hard, made little effort to get back to Nick when he broke the pocket. And, he had terrible body language and lackadaisically walked back to the line showing no urgency for most of the game.
Not sure what happened to Foles’ footwork in the span of a week, but it was terrible. He never stepped into any of his throws and his accuracy all but vanished (probably didn’t need me to point that out for you, it was evident on the TV, I’m sure)
Demeco had an even better day than his stat sheet which was already impressive. He routinely decked the hell out of any WR or TE that ran across the middle within 5 yards of the LOS. He put Escobar on his rear more than once. This disrupted multiple patterns and got the Eagles off the field a few times on 3rd down.
The Linc is now a completely sterile antiseptic environment to watch a game. Security guards actually chastising fans for yelling too loudly or saying bad things about the Eagles. One person in my section yelled, Come on, Howie, make them play Vinny Curry more he’s the only one who’s getting pressure. This fan was told if he directed any more of his yelling at Howie Roseman he’d be escorted out. I said the words, “oh, that’s bull $h!t”, after a fairly egregious PI call. I was told that such profanity would have me escorted out, as there were children around. I’m all for policing the drunken fights and truly bad behavior. But, honestly, it has become truly a lousy place to watch an NFL game and I’ve been a season ticket holder for 25 years. There’s no signs, no fan fare, no cheering, just a bunch of corporate jerks that leave at half time in a close game to beat the traffic. And, the food is horrendous as well. $10 for a miller light, $10 for a stale piece of pizza. No wonder we can’t win at home.
Re: ICDogg’s Conjuring Up the Origin of the Eagles-‘Boys Rivalry
Yes, 1966 was the year. Great memory.
The game, though, was a few weeks earlier than the one I listed in answer to your “worst passing performances” question. The Eagles were playing Dallas in the Cotton Bowl. The Cowboys were in their break-out season under Landry.
During that game, Dallas MLB LeRoy Jordan went head-hunting on Eagles HB Timmy Brown. Jordan knocked out several of Brown’s teeth with a clothesline tackle.
Dallas won 56-7. And they rubbed it in all day long.
But 4 weeks later at Franklin Field came the “Scarpatti Stole the Ball from Reaves” Game, in which Hill and Snead were dreadful — but the Eagles won.
Even better, the Eagles scored all 3 TDs via Special Teams.
And Timmy Brown had his revenge — scoring twice on kickoff returns. A short-timer DB named Aaron Martin ran back a punt for a TD, too.
Late in the game, Dallas was driving for the winning FG. On a swing pass near the left sideline in Eagles’ territory, Reaves took a pass from Meredith. Scarpatti, with help, stopped Reaves and stole the ball. Reaves still swears to this day he heard the Ref’s whistle.
As for cheap-shots, the Eagles eventually got even in 1971 in a game at the Vet.
The Eagles were getting blown out (on the way to a 42-7 loss).
But Eagles DE Mel Tom (who’d switched from No. 58 to 99) nearly killed Roger Staubach after he threw an INT.
Staubach — who came in for mop up duty — was watching the return. Tom came up from the side and gave him a shot across the helmet with a forearm. No flag. Just like when Jordan cheap-shotted T-Brown.
The problem is the venue.
Pack your bags boys… we’re moving to London!