Buying In On Foles
Posted: November 4th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 183 Comments »Some of you want to know why I’m still saying that I need to see more from Nick Foles. He’s looked very good to great in 2.5 games this year. Isn’t that enough to show he can be The Guy?
The point I’ve tried to make for a while now is that I want Nick to play well and show that he is a franchise QB. But it takes time to do that. A couple of games isn’t enough. You need a couple of months.
Teams must be able to study a player. They must be able to figure out his strengths and weaknesses and build their defensive gameplans accordingly. When that happens and the player is still successful, you’ve got something.
Also, time has a way of showing who a player really is. Kevin Kolb looked like a stud vs the Chiefs (2009) and Falcons (2010), but he was exposed over time. He could not play at that level consistently. Kolb needed the right circumstances to succeed.
Foles could still be in that same category. I think he’s different, but I need time to know for sure.
As we talk about the Raiders game, let’s step away from results for a minute. If you wrote a scouting report on Foles based on Sunday’s game, you would note these positives:
* Above average arm. Showed good velocity on intermediate throws. Able to get the ball downfield for big gains.
* Put touch on short throws.
* Good mechanics. Showed good footwork.
* Accurate. Consistently hit players in the right spot. Gave his players a chance to get RAC yards.
* Made good decisions. Found the open guy and got him the ball.
* Did an excellent job of helping guys to come open. Used eye manipulation and pump fakes to get the defense to go where he wanted them.
* Good mobility. Had a couple of short runs that were effective, but more impressively he was able to move in the pocket. Also threw well on the run.
* Had good pocket presence. Wasn’t under a ton of pressure, but stayed focused on his receivers. Also got rid of the ball quickly most of the time. There were a couple of plays where he held it too long.
That sounds like a guy you want starting for your team. I’m very encouraged by Foles right now.
I would love for Chip Kelly to announce that Foles is the starting QB, but Kelly doesn’t like to make proclamations like that. We’ll see how Chip handle that. I think Foles has earned the right to keep the job. I think he’s shown enough that we need to see him play to know what he is / isn’t over the long term.
One of the tests for Foles is to show he can win ugly. There are going to be some days when the offense is going to be sloppy. Foles needs to show he can shake off a poor half and play well in the 2nd half or down the stretch. Last night Andrew Luck was struggling for half the game, but really came alive for part of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th quarter. He helped the Colts win a game they appeared to be out of.
I’m not saying Foles needs to lead a dramatic comeback. He just needs to show he can win ugly. There will be a game where he’s 14-27-169 with a TD and 2 INTs. The Eagles trail 17-13 in the 4th quarter. Nick has to show he can put aside the struggles and make the plays needed to win.
If you watch enough football, teams with good QBs are almost never out of a game. Peyton led the Broncos on a big comeback vs the Colts. Luck worked his magic last night. Prior to this year, Matt Ryan was one of the best at leading his team back into a game when they appeared to have no chance.
At his best, Nick looks like a terrific QB. At his worst, he’s awful. The key is figuring out who he will be on an average Sunday. The more Nick plays, the more we’ll learn about him, good or bad.
QB is such a critical position that you must feel very sure about a player. What you know outweighs what you want or what you hope. Make a mistake and you can set the franchise back several years.
After yesterday’s great performance, there is every reason to feel optimistic. Maybe, just maybe, the Eagles QB of the future is already here.
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Well, if he isn’t the QB of the future, he is at least the best backup we’ve had in a long time :). It will be good to see how he fairs the rest of the season. It would be nice for QB not to be a no. 1 concern heading into the draft.
I pray that we don’t need to draft a QB…that would give us a chance to significantly improve this team this offseason…nothing could get us back to the top faster than already having the QB of the future on the roster..it makes such a huge difference to how much we can improve in one offseason if we can focus on improving the rest of the team
Man, can you imagine how positive we would all feel if we went into next season thinking we had a guy? Then we could concentrate on OLB/secondary in the first round?
Unfortunately I can’t stop imagining it lol…
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With an impact OLB pass rusher and a star playmaking Safety in the secondary, I’m convinced that the rest of our current pieces will be enough to form a good defense…people still aren’t sold on our CBs, but we haven’t seen their best ball yet. Let them get this year under their belt, stick a double digits sack guy in front of them, and a playmaking safety behind them…and we will be happy with The BBC Boykin,Bradley and Cary…ESPECIALLY if we put two ANIMALS like a Wolf and a Bird Behind them 😉
Best player available model in the draft. I’m hoping the DL/LB crew is deep this coming year and we can continue to get stout up the middle. I would also like to see us pick up some bigger body WR’s that can move as well. Being able to draft Cap’n Mecco’s replacement and have him redshirt a year would be huge in the new defense. I don’t see any Lucks coming out next couple of years, so what’s the rush?
I’m an Eagles fan, and I approve this message!
Knowing each other; meaning hopefully I don’t have to explain my awkward ways of asking questions; how would you feel if you were less involved, e.g. If he were the Titan’s QB?
I’d probably be more cavalier and say they should go with him. Always easier to gamble with someone else’s money.
There is no question that Nick has potential. Is he good enough to be the QB on a team that wins the Super Bowl?
I read from Jack Handey…
“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.”
Now read that passage in an eery slightly nasally tone in the dark with a flashlight illuminating your face while you look in the mirror.
How can anybody answer that question? If Eli can…given the right defense…anybody can….
Trent Dilfer has a SB ring. I think the question is meant to be understood as, “Is he good enough to actively improve our chances of winning a title?”
Tom, I understand why you bring up Kolb, but it drives me insane lol..
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like Dallas asnt enough to say he isn’t a franchise guy, yesterday wasn’t enough to say that he is the franchise. But it’s enough to warrant giving a fair shot showing us who he can be…the position is so mental that it’s impossible to know..but when it comes down to it, the question is pretty simple:
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Can he analyze what the defense is doing, and know your playbook inside out so you know how to attack whatever the defense is throwing at you..and when you know where to go with the ball, can you deliver an accurate one under pressure?…I don’t see how anyone can say that he doesn’t have a chance at improving enough to be the guy consistently but he still has to go out! stay humble! keep working hard and get it done…as he gains experience he will get sharper at analyzing and recognizing what the defense is doing and how you attack it..Dcoordinators basically just try and trick QBs..the more he plays, the harder he will be to trick. While he is gaining experience, he is also working daily on throwing the ball, and improving his grasp of the offense…so teams will be tricking him less while he is executing better…I’m anxious to give him the neccessary experience so we can see who he grows up to be,,,
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I think most Eagles fans want Foles to play so we can find out how good he is (or isn’t). If Chip let me make the decision, I’d make him the starter right now.
Yes sir..that’s really all my optimism is about..simply finding out because I understand that given how we treated him this far, we really have no damn clue..there was the Dallas red flag, and plenty of encouraging signs..hopefully those encouraging sides add up to blossom into our franchise stud…but that’s far from a given at this point..
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I’m just happy to get off the hamster wheel and finally FIND OUT!!! Finally, I feel like the future has arrived, and THAT is a breath of fresh air…like I always said, if I have to watch us struggle it should be on the backs of young players who still have a ways to go before they reached their ceiling…
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Btw. I kill Trent Cole, but props for yesterday’s game…defense did some really nice things, but i won’t talk about it cause it was a bad offense..what bothers me is when people down play what FOles did because he made the raiders look like a bad defense when that isn’t the case
Yeah, I don’t think there’s much of anyone left that would bench Foles for anyone else on the roster right now, even in full health.
Up to Foles now to stay healthy and show us what he’s got.
Yeah, but they all downplayed what Foles did to Tampa and they were a good defense as well. There will always be some reason. Desean was open, Riley Cooper doesnt make plays for Vick, the O line played better for Foles, etc.
I’m not saying Foles needs to lead a dramatic comeback.
Didn’t Foles do that last year vs the Bucs? : P
Yes.
BUT . . . Kelly wasn’t here. And he doesn’t know — according to his own yardstick — what Foles was asked to do by prior coaches.
So Foles, using Kelly’s framing, has only 2.5 games to judge.
Then so far so good…if you take the average of his 2.5 games, you are left with a pretty darn good QB…we could only be so lucky
Recent draft has us going with the young OT from FSU in round 1, and the DT from PSU in round two…
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How would you guys feel if you see us use our first two picks on the offensive and defensive lines? I’m a big believer in winning the trenches but I can’t say I would be ok with this
The only DL i would be ok with in the first would be NIx. I wouldn’t mind taking a couple mid round OL but I dont think we need to grab one too early, I feel like drafting defensive players who can be studs or above average starters would be a better return on investment.
Rashede Hanegmen is a round 1 DT that you would grow to love, and NIX would make us pretty damn scary…but I do agree with you.
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if we aren’t drafting defensive stars early, the only position I think I can tolerate are pass catchers
I like Shede too but my big problem with him is he still plays way too high much of the time. Plus he seems to want to penetrate, which isn’t what the coaches seem to want to do with our NT. That means he would probably play end for us and I just think
DE: Thorton, Kruger
NT: Nix, Logan
DE: Cox, Curry
looks better than
DE: Heageman, Curry
NT: Thorton, Logan
DE: Cox, Kruger
NIX 100% looks better…omg would he be the perfect compliment to stick in between Cox and Thornton..
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I think the world of Logan, and I am fine with him..but I view Nix as potential DOMINANCE so I would be fine with taking him and going back to Bennie and The Jet(curry) off our bench….Nix over Shede all day, but I would be fine if they selected both even if they wouldn’t be at the top of my wish list
Nix has been getting bad buzz bc of effort / work ethic, interviews will be big for him come draft time.
Jones in the 2nd? What? I don’t see him as a NT and we’re set at DE.
Yeah jones…trust me, I wasn’t happy with it either lol
OL, i could maybe be all right with. I wouldn’t be thrilled with the pick, but i do see that some of our OL is getting old and it would be nice to have some young guys we can groom into a starting job 2-3 years later. however, i’m not sure that you spend a 1st rd pick on a guy like that…
DL, absolutely not. i’m pretty happy with our DL play right now (Bennie Logan gets a pass for being a rookie, not saying he’s bad or anything). Seeing how Davis wants our DL to play 2 gap, i don’t think you spend a first round pick on a guy whose job it is to eat up blocks.
To me, you pick the best of whatever player is available at our spot of: WR, OLB, CB, S, OL and so on.
Nix maybe. Unless the OT we get is undoubtedly the best one in the draft, then I wouldn’t want to spend a high pick on one too early this time around. I’m For Pass rushing OLB or WR. I think I could do with McCullers at DT a little later though.
I have to give Foles credit for bouncing back. I said after the Cowboys loss that if he doesn’t get a chance to start again this year, he sure looked like a guy you cut in camp next year (I also said his only groin injury was not being able to hold up an NFL QB’s jock strap). He got his second chance to start, and wow did he make the most of it.
Now which Foles do we see next week? He’s been Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, either great or terrible. Which one do we get now? Which one comes out under pressure?
You have to throw away the worst game and the best games. The look at the stats thus far in his career. Still pretty damn good for 1st year guy.
You guys gotta check out fiery sconces in the studio with Spadaro
Agree with all — especially that Nate play. He didn’t bring him down but he did the next best thing. I have bad memory but didn’t Nate also run and get Pryor for a very short(if any) gain? Hope I’m remembering that correctly…
Yea, Nate flew up like he was shot out of a cannon and brought down Pryor within a yard of the los on one scramble. Nice play
It looked like Nate was playing more SS up near the line while Wolff was the deeper FS, except when Wolff was called up to blitz. All in all, considering the play we’ve seen from Nate, I’d say he’s actually playing pretty damn good the past 3 games or so, especially with keeping the play in front of him.
Re: Which Way Kelly?
T-Law:
Is the following a question:
If Kelly doesn’t give Foles the last 7 games, regardless of performance, but instead re-inserts Vick when healthy (again, regardless of Foles’ performance) then is it accurate to say the Eagles are no closer to finding their answer at QB then January 2013, when Kelly was hired?
Also . . . if Kelly takes the approach described in Q. 1, what conclusion (or conclusions) do you draw about Kelly, Vick, Foles, and the Eagles’ QB situation?
I might make a personal sacrifice for the benefit of eagles nation and assassinate Kelly if that were to happen
Ma in un travestimento, giusto?
We must protect “Il Profeta”.
Even in jest, I’m *really* not cool with that.
Take your politically correct BS elsewhere
Assassination is a loaded term. If you said that about the President, you might actually get a visit from the Secret Service. Even if it’s just your local coach, the very term means you’re killing someone for political reasons. It’s not really a “politically correct” thing. The local coach is not a political figure, unless you take him to represent some sort of political figure, party, or social trend. To go further and say that you’d do something like this (even in jest) in my name, since I participate and all that–is distasteful beyond belief. That it is a “personal sacrifice” or “good” is a malicious twisting of meaning of those words.
Put it like this–Imagine if Foles was reading those words. How do you think he would feel if he imagined if his coach was shot? This is a violent place with shopping malls and other public places needing to be evacuated on a regular basis because of some guy shooting, do you think he’d not be really uncomfortable about thinking maybe some crazy person might do that, even if you’re joking?
Like as the song goes in Stan?
It’s not funny or amusing, and I know I can’t be the only one appalled. It’s just a game, man.
I don’t know. I mean, if Foles goes 0-100 with 27ints, my answer is going to be a whole lot different than if he just plays like a guy with 8 starts under his belt. Assuming a reasonable level of play from Foles:
1) We’d be closer to finding the answer via process of elimination. If Kelly were to go back to Vick, we can pretty much assume there’s nothing Foles can do to get Kelly to stick with him. So scratch him off the list.
2) Still with the assumption that Foles isn’t playing like rancid milk, we can conclude that Vick is blackmailing Kelly.
Yes. And yes.
Even if Foles stinks up the joint next week at GB, Kelly has to start Foles the rest of the year. If he doesn’t he is a moron. We need to know what we have. If we traded Foles right now, we get a first round pick.
Question: what’s the steelers OLB situation look like? Would they steal Anthony Barr? Or do they HAVE to draft Oline before the window with roethlisberger closes shut?
Steelers are, historically, a “BPA” team consistent with needs — but not dictated by needs.
Are their OLBs old? They just drafted Jarvis and he is struggling..I guess the better question to ask is historically have they ever drafted OLB(a position they value so much) in round 1 two years in a row?
Since 1980, the Steelers have drafted a player at the same position two years in a row only once.
1999: WR Troy Edwards
2000: WR Plax Burress
Otherwise, the Steelers’ 1st Rd selections — some good, some not — look like BPA consistent with needs.
Grazie..always know I can count on our historian “uncle” Viking for story time!!
Woodley is still fairly young. So assuming they feel Jarvis develops next year, I would be surprised if they go for Barr. I honestly think, and my roommate is a Steelers fan, so I have some insight, that there biggest problem is that Todd Haley’s schemes really dont fit the strengths of that offense.
Oh so Woodley is young,.nice!
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I don’t even know how they allowed the Big Ben/Haley dysfunction for this long. That team is desperate for Oline AND RB help unless they want to waste what time they have left with Ben…Vikings,Falcons,Giants,Steelers,Jets are the teams that I fear would target him..
So I root for Jarvis to play well! while the steelers OTs are pathetic
I root for ponder and freeman to cotinue to be putrid for the Vikings
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I root for the Falcons needing to retool their offense when everyone is assuming they are adding a pass rusher
Woodley turned 29 yesterday actually. So depends on your definition of young.
Dude, Barr is going top-5 we’re not getting him. Move on. Hageman, Watkins, Mack, maybe?
Dude…not neccessarily!!! He could fall to around 8 if there is a run on QBs and OT at the top, assuming he doesn’t leap frog Clowney….I. Don’t expect him to be on the board when we pick, but if we have a bad second half and finish 6-10 we could afford to trade up to 8 if he is available
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Btw, when I type Barr, he is just a proxy for any of the round 1 OLB..I m not shedding ANY tears if we can’t get Barr and we end up with Mack, Van Noy, Beasley
hubbard could be 2nd rounder. guy looks like great fit for kelly. if foles is qb next yr, want wr to go opposite d-ax, move cooper to 4th where he blongs. mike evans is projected in 10-15 range. he just seems like the perfect compliment to jax
I agree about Hubburd seeming like a guy Chip would love…the problem is if he does fall to the second round, I think he comes off the board early…some seem to think that the stud from Stanford could also fall to round two but the combine is going to be crucial for shaking out the eventual OLB order
skov? he’s ilb…but yeah he’s 2-3rd right now, take him in heartbeat. not alot of 6-5 250 guys coming out. more in the graham size, wonder how that’ll impact ol draft.
I like Skov a lot, but I think it’s a waste of a pick..Mykal and Meco are settling into the new scheme and playing better every week.,.then again you are talking to someone who thinks Meco has more left in the tank then most people seem to think,,,I think, at the very least we can get away with one more year before we have to make a serious investment at that position..
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Love Skov..really physical, reminds me of Kiko who I adore, but too many more pressing immediate needs for me to get excited about drafting him…
Skov is a 3rd round guy. He does not have the elite atheletisme like Alonso, Lee, Willis or Kuechly.
I think he was talking about Trent Murphy, but he could be a potential 1st round pick (depending on combine and who comes out)
Remember when Morton went ON and ON about how unathletic Kuechly was and how he’d be exposed at the combine? Then he went and posted Willis-like numbers…oh Mort…how I miss thee
There are more than 5 “top 5” players right now IMO. The only definite top 5 picks would seem to be the top two QBs (TB and MM).
C-dub “I don’t know if my leadership helps, but I know that being out there with Five Nine who goes out there every day and puts it all on the line, he is a great leader and I lean heavily on him..with Meco as our QB this defense has a bright future”….and this comes from a guy who played with hall of fame defensie leaders..
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You guys have to admit that cupids arrow has hit Yous in the ass and you are all faing in love with C Dub…check out his interview with Spadaro on PE.com and you will like what you hear..
Welcome to the Foles train. I thought it filled up a few starts ago but man are people jumping on board….
I understand your analogy with Luck — given the nature of that game and what the other team was going through… I’m not sure that was the best of ideas….
Remarkably, or not, before the internet and ESPN . . . people responded to QB issues exactly as they do now.
The only difference is blog cites like Igglesblitz, and poorly researched columns by waves of national writers.
Are we atleast all in agreement that the arm strength is no longer even a question?
No.
No, in the sense that it’s definitely his weak point as a passer. I think for him to be a SB QB at some point, it’s going to need to get better. But it doesn’t need to improve that much, and it can be improved. He’s not there yet, but he should be able to improve, if he works on it.
If his arm is stronger than Chad Penningtons than I think it’s over rated in the discussion….but you sound like eventually you don’t expect it to be an issue…
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the talk used to be that he wouldn’t have the arm to succeed in the NFL…I felt like that should no longer be the issue! but I guess im wrong..
If Foles has the work ethic I hope he has, it won’t be an issue (absent uncontrollable circumstance). I generally agree that arm-strength is overrated by armchair GMs. However, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a floor to the arm-strength attribute for a SB QB, and I think Foles is currently just below that floor. He can still be a good NFL QB (#10-20ish) in Kelly’s system without improving it, if he continues doing the other, more important things well. But I don’t think either of us will be happy with that outcome.
agreed. Current top guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc were all thought to lack arm strength their first few years in the league.
I think it’s (i) decision-making, (ii) quickness of release, and (iii) accuracy that all matter before arm-strength.
And I believe, GEagle, you’ll agree.
If arm strength mattered so much, Griffin gets picked ahead of Luck.
And Sopey would have been a 2-way starter this year for the Eagles.
Yes sir…if you have a better arm than Chad Pennington you can find a way to succeed in the NFL if you are accurate and have a high FB IQ or FBI(whatever you want to call it)…the better the arm, the more room for error you have
You’re so right.
Though, this is assuming that the big arm doesn’t become a crutch. If you’re someone like Vick (or even McNabb) with a big arm, you may lean on it and fail to develop the anticipation that great QBs have. At the very least, it can lead to bad habits early on that may be hard to lose.
No. I like Foles and hope he succeeds. But he will need to demonstrate elite accuracy and elite anticipation to compensate for his average arm. Hopefully as he gains more experience, Nick will be able to hone these traits. And maybe add a little more zip as well.
Watching Andrew Luck last night……just has a gun. Incredible velocity. Nick’s operating at 70% of that, so needs to be better in every other way.
elite — elite — elite ….. garbage — garbage — garbage … there is no perfect QB — EVER. Stop hoping for one. Some fans the grass is always going to be greener somewhere else….
or you know, hey let’s objectively evaluate the guy and see if he improves on the things that he can. because thats what fans do.
“objectively evaluate the guy…” – that’s funny. You know this is an Eagles board, right?
Foles has adequate arm strength for an NFL QB. Elite, no. You compare him to Luck, but Luck is a once every ten years-type-prospect. Foles arm compares well with Matt Ryan, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, etc.
Yes, and Luck sucked during the Chargers game a few weeks ago. (I had him on my fantasy team and his poor performance lost me what should’ve been an easy game with his normal stats). So I benched him and played Nick for the Dallas game (ughhhh).
Point is, Foles has proven more than any young QB we’ve had since McNabb was a rookie that we might potentially have our QB. He has separated his level of play from Hoying, and Kolb (thought there was another guy we traded to Miami for a 2nd round pick, forgot his name).
Foles can be our QB of the future as long as he doesn’t get knocked out. That’s my biggest concern about him. Injuries or consecutive concussions will trash this young talent.
Foles velocity was not 70% of Lucks. It was a smaller difference, I just watched them. At least 90% if not 95%. I’d love to have Luck. We don’t have Luck anyway.
Foles arm is very close to the arm of Brady or Bress.
only when they are standing next to each other
I haven’t seen enough of Brees to remember his throws, but Foles on Sunday sure looked a lot like a young Tom Brady. The dude has enough arm strength, and he improved what he had last year. Good chance he develops it further next year… if he get’s the reps, and the game time experience.
How good did Brady and Brees look after 3.5 games?
Both of whom have elite (ELITE, there said it again) accuracy and anticipation (and IQ). Again, if Foles continues to develop this abilities, we should have our franchise guy.
So far Foles has shown great anticipation on his throws and seems fairly accurate overall.
The second deep ball to Jackson was 60 yards in the air right?
With sooooo much air under it. A better CB makes a play on that ball. Compare it to Luck’s bomb to TY Hilton last night.
That doesn’t make any sense. If that ball had less air under it the CB makes a play on the ball because the CB was there underneath Jackson and Foles dropped it over to where Jackson could get it.
I guess not everybody saw the same piece I did years ago about Aaron Rodgers’ deep ball and how part of what made it so good was the high arch he put on it.
I could never come up with an over-the-shoulder-catch to save my life so I can’t speak from experience, but I’m given to understand that this makes it easier to catch for the receiver. Something about longer time in the catch zone and being similar to high arch on a basketball shot.
Also makes it harder for the DB to defend.
yep, good arch, but of course not a lollipop throw, is the best type because it is much easier too catch and harder too defend.
can’t we all just accept that he had a crazy game. Throws only have to be good enough to hit the receiver. QB plays a statistically perfect game and we’re arguing about whether he was late on a throw and whether there was enough arch on his ball.
Seriously? After the crazy QB play we had the last two weeks can’t we just enjoy it and pray that it keeps happening?
Less air under it / 5 yards further downfield and JAX has a TD. As Anders said, you don’t want a lollipop either.
I said it after the Giants game. And I’ll repeat it now. Foles is our franchise QB.
I wrote here after the Dallas game that I wasn’t mad or angry. I was shocked. Foles’ demeanor on and off the field is his biggest strength. And he just wasn’t composed in that game.
As Tommy pointed out there is not a single throw that Foles made yesterday that he could not make again. Give him good/decent protection and Foles can get the job done. And done well.
Its not going to be easy but Eagles will beat the Packers. McCoy will have a bigger role and strong performance when everyone is focused on Foles. This is exactly what Chip wants. He wants defenses to respect the passing game so he can run it down their throats.
The X factor will be the D-line for Eagles. If they can push the pocket and create pressure against Rodgers it will be a tough day for him.
I have to admit, I feel very excited right now about going to Lambeau…I would probably fear them coming to philly, but I’m actually excited about going up there…we get to really put the past 5 weeks of defensive improvements to the test and find out where we really are right now in terms of our progression..
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And we get to find out how FOles and Kelly’s offense can hang with an Elite offense in a shoot out…two great tests for our young team..
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Forget FOles for a second..the rest of the offense needs to play better and sharper than they did against Denver if FOles is going to have any shot at keeping up with Rogers..I’m very excited about seeing our QB and our maligned defense face a test where after the game, it can’t be written off because of the perceived quality of our opposition…I can’t explain how bad I want this game for FOles and Billy Davis
110% Agree. I’m sick of hearing Eagles have only played well against bad teams (Although WE KNOW Bucs and Raiders were top 10 Defenses).
Beating GB in Lambeau? Almost unthinkable before the season started.
Can’t wait.
First 4 weeks of the season our defense forced 5 Turnovers and gave up an average of 34pts a game
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Last 5 games the defense has forced 10 turnovers and gave up an average of 18pts a game..
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Excited about putting those improvements up against a scary offensive team like the packers..
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What’s up with Mathews? Cobb? Jones? Finley? Not that it really matters since Rogers makes it work with anyone…but which of those players are expected to play against us?
Jones should play. Cobb and Finley won’t. For Clay Matthews, the Eagles game should be right around the time they originally speculated he’d be back.
Thanks
Matthews might play — hasn’t been missed their D has played well. Jones may play, cobb and finley are likely out for season. Jordy has been picking up slack, great run game as well.
well the Bucs and Raiders *WERE* top 10 defenses. i’d be surprised if either team were the week after we played them : P
*Nice*
And now Rodgers is out…just made life a wee but easier
I’ve been guilty of being as big a Foles booster as there is, but I still think we need to separate what his abilities are, in the abstract sense, from how this offense maximizes those abilities. When the defense is stretched horizontally to defend constraint plays and also forced to overplay the running game, it becomes relatively easy to look like a good QB so long as you can identify where the holes are that the scheme is creating for you and execute the throws. The play designs make it so the defenses are easier to read and so that there is usually a “correct” place to go with the football. Foles, on his good days at least, seems to have those aspects of playing within the scheme down pat.
The remaining question for me is, what happens when the Eagles fall behind by a couple touchdowns– as they may well do this Sunday against GB– and the defense can start playing pass primarily? Some would say the measure of a franchise QB is he’s the guy who can step up and make big throws and get you back in a game like that even when the defense is trying to take away the pass. Maybe Foles is that guy and maybe he isn’t… and maybe we shouldn’t even care so long as he can be productive within the scheme.
Speaking of stretching defenses *horizontally* . . . 2 points.
First, the great Sid Gilman, father of the modern passing game, emphasized stretching defenses horizontally to create vertical passing lanes. He brought the philosophy to the Eagles as Dick Vermeil’s special assistant in 1979 — and the Eagles’ offense became a juggernaut for 3 years.
Two, Kelly said there are no new ideas in football. Only new coaches using old ideas.
Well, watch the replay of Foles’ TD to Ertz in the back corner of the EZ.
Ertz lines up inside of D-Jax and runs a corner route.
DJax, meanwhile, runs a hitch route but short of the goal line.
As the play unfolds, and Foles slides to his right, a huge passing lane opens up between DJax and Ertz.
Not a perfect example. But it gives some life to the concept.
Here’s a link to Foles’ TD. Go to the 35-second mark for Ertz’s catch.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013110306/2013/REG9/eagles@raiders#menu=highlights&tab=recap
Am I the only one who thought Foles was way late on this particular throw? He did a good job of looking everyone off and then scrambling and finding Ertz, but feel like he should’ve thrown it way earlier. May not know until we see All-22.
Looked that way to me too The TV angle actually showed the whole field on this play… Ertz came open well before Foles let it go. He had all day to get it to him.
Edit: I will def give it another look though as AC suggests.
Guy throws 7 td’s and we’re going to put each throw under a microscope. His one throw was only 10.2 feet off the ground when the optimal height is 10.252454. The football should rotate 37 times per 10 feet. Foles only rotates 36.99999.
If a coach can’t offer up things to fix, even during a good game, he should not be coaching.
The throw to Ertz was one of the best throws he made. It was on the run, it was an excellent play. Happens all the time with all the great QBs. I love how Foles “had all day” but he was running out of the pocket.
Watching the play again Foles does a nice job of keeping the nearest defender (#29, Ross) off of Ertz by looking him off It was still a pretty poor play by Ross though. He had no reason to respect the receiver to his right, who already had two OAK defenders all over him. He should have been covering Ertz, instead he let him run right by him.
Now that said, Nick Foles made it happen and made it look a lot easier than it probably was.
Foles had “all day” while he was on the move and Ertz was open for 1/2 a second and then continued his route while Foles got set and made the throw. Ertz presented a little bit of a target once while Nick was moving and then he completed his break while Nick moved and set his feet and then completed the TD. I actually thought this was one of the nicest plays of the day and one of Nicks best plays because he moved around and made a perfect throw with velocity.
by no means did I meant to imply it was a bad play
Watch the replay.
If throws on Ertz’s cut, the CB shading DJax can make a play on that ball.
By waiting, and having DJax stop and Ertz continue, a huge hole opens up.
Give it a look.
Just rewatched it, still not sure. Either way its kind of broken coverage. Like I said, good job by Nick to keep everyone honest and thinking he was going over the middle.
Fair.
Looks like Foles 1st read was a slant to Cooper.
Then he slid to his right, gave Cooper a quick glance, and then threw to Ertz.
So now you don’t know.
This is also a good example where the receiver had presented no target to the QB and his eyes were not on the QB while “the QB had all day or so much time”. A receiver isn’t open if he has no eye at all on the QB and isn’t presenting a target. Nick had to wait some. It was timing and really the high percentage play was the TD pass most likely.
Yes, that is the infamous “Turkey Hole” created by a Tampa 2 D scheme. All parts must be in place for the hole to develop. Brilliant play call that was brilliantly executed by Foles and the receivers.
Actually, the in-game camera captured all 22 guys on that play.
Yes you are the only one. Ertz is open for a split second and Foles is moving and not set to throw , not even close. What did you just want him to throw a wild pass while he was moving?
Re: Foles and the Other 6
Before yesterday, 6 QBs threw 7 TDs in a single NFL game.
Four of them are in the HOF or biding time: Luckman, Blanda, Tittle, and PManning.
The other 2 — Eagles Adrian Burk and Viking/Pats Joe Kapp — had careers that were fairly pedestrian, at least statistically. But each had they’re moments.
Burk led the NFL in TDs passing the year he threw 7 in a game (’54).
Kapp led the Vikings to the SB in ’69, the same season he threw 7 in a game (’69).
[Kapp had a brief NFL career, just 4 season from ’67-’70. He graduated UCal-Berkley in ’59 and went to the CFL, where he had a C-HOF career. He came to the Vikings in ’67 at the behest of new HC Bud Grant, also from the CFL, to replace the recently traded Fran Tarkenton.]
____________
If Foles can be the kind of winning QB Kapp was for the Vikings, and in the CFL, that’d be great. Kapp was never pretty. But he was effective — aided, in no small part, by an emerging defense that would be among the most dominant the NFL for the next 10 years.
By the way, Kapp has a role in the great 1970 film M.A.S.H. — along with Eagles FB Tom Woodeshick and KC HOFer Buch Buchanan. They’re all on the blue team and spotted by the camera experimenting with a certain still-Schedule I drug on the bench.
On a small note…
I liked how Chip had confidence in the defense to be able to defer on the coin toss. Seriously, when was the last time we decided kick off to start the game? I’ve gotten used to the pattern of receiving, not scoring on the first possession, punting, and having the other team coming right back and scoring putting us in an early hole.
That’s interesting. I wonder if that was the logic. In Madden (because real football is just like Madden) I always defer because I like getting the ball after half time, and if you make a stop on their first drive, it’s like getting an extra posession.
i use the same strategy.
Always used to do that.
Re: CBs – way off topic
Maybe Tommy Lawlor — in the DGR — will give a moment to the following question:
Does playing a 3-4 lessen the need for elite man-cover CBs?
Just wondering.
Theoretically having an extra athletic defender (LB) on the field helps against the pass.
I think in any defense, 34 or 43, there are times DBs have to win 1 on 1.
“There Are Times” . . . Precisely.
That’s what I’m driving at.
I asked if the need for elite CBs is “lessen[ed]”.
On every play, you need to win your battle as a player.
But in terms of scheming, I wondering if the 3-4 gives a DC more room to work around the CBs skill-level.
Seems to be able to give more help in the middle of the field / disguise pass rush which can cause the QB to make bad decisions. Having a shut down corner has obvious advantages — but any team that plays good team defense lessens the need to have stud players.
2-gapping takes a lot of pressure off the interior linebackers, and that in turn might take some pressure off the DBs.
I don’t know that they really have an extra athletic defender on the field, though. They have Cole. They called him a DE in a 4-3 and a LB in a 3-4. Doesn’t make him any faster to call him a linebacker.
A 3-4 is always bigger when you add up the weights of all the players. It helps the pass defense by stuffing the run.
I was talking about an extra MLB.
Going by weight, it’s more accurate to say that the 3-4 subtracts a LB. You only have 2 little guys who stand off the line rather than 3.
I think the secondary has nothing to do with the front seven.
They have everything to do. A bad front 7 can make a decent secondary look awful. Good pass rush is the key to take aways.
I think he meant the front-7 alignment. I think it’s an interesting questions.
When I think of elite corners, the first ones that come to mind seem to all be associated with 4-3 defenses. So AC may be on to something.
YES . . .
Andy124, you understood my question perfectly.
Revis played for a 3-4 defense for a long time.
Reavis — the Exception that proves the rule?
I doubt it. I think it just depends on the DC and the front seven players.
if they show 3-4 or 4-3 look have nothing to do with the secondary.
You are right that a great front seven can mask a lot of problems in the secondary
I think you can get away with lesser talent in some 3-4’s because you end up doing more zone-blitz concepts, but you don’t have to look farther than Rex Ryan to see how much of a difference a pair of great cover corners can impact a defense. Revis (and to a lesser extent Cromartie) allowed the Jets to run a ton of five or six man pressure concepts due to being able to trust them without safety help and instead assign that safety a man coverage or blitz assignment. Kareem Jackson and Jonathan Joseph have a similar but less drastic effect on Houston’s D. Then again, SF has gotten by with great ILB and safety play but relatively crappy CB play.
So to sum up, I think you have more opportunities to compensate for bad CB play, but a 3-4 could definitely be built around elite man-cover guys. Yet another reason for Tommy’s argument to stick with Davis for 2-3 years to develop some identity as a scheme, b/c I think whichever way you go, you need to commit to a priority.
If you throw out his best and worst performances and judge him on what’s left, Foles is still looking like a very solid QB. I think based on what he’s done so far and comparing it to Vick’s performances this year, Foles has earned the opportunity to start vs the Packers and if he doesn’t stink out the joint, he’s earned the right to be the starter of this team.
I think even if he doesn’t play well, they need to start him the rest of the year. We have to know for the draft if we need a QB. Can’t waste this year on a veteran QB who gets hurt every other game.
So yea…I guess that cowboys game was the outlier, huh? Count me as one of the people that didn’t think he had the ability to play at that high of a level. Never have I been happier to eat crow. Kid looks promising. I agree w tommy, let him start the rest of the yr and let’s see what we have. If he proves to be a stud, the eagles chances of again becoming an elite team go way up.
I’m happy about Foles’ performance, but now that the initial euphoria has worn off, I’m still nervous. It’s like the Eagles themselves, I’ll believe they can play at a high level when they prove they can do it consistently.
Yesterday was great, but all the good vibes are giving me Tampa flashbacks. I just really, really hope we don’t have to endure another Dallas. It’s my Vietnam.
I hear ya. I still think that there had to be something undisclosed wrong with Foles for him to be that bad in that game. We may never find out what. It’s one of those things that players are reluctant to disclose, because they don’t want to be seen as whiners making excuses.
What if….he got hit earlier in the game, got a concussion then. Unbeknownst to the team, he continued playing with a concussion, but that would be taboo to report. Far fetched, but I keep trying to explain the Dallas game because it so conflicted from what Foles had shown through 8 starts
Yeah, that’s along the lines of what I am thinking.
If you’re hurt and playing like that you gotta take yourself out. Selfish to do otherwise. Like when Vick kept playing through the broken Ribs.
Another reason why Foles would be reluctant to reveal an injury to the team or the media after the game.
Agreed… If he was aware of his condition. I personally thought I was fine until I later realized I wasn’t.
Name me 1 NFL who would reveal an injury if it means you might lose your job?
I agree fran35. There was something wrong with Foles. He is much better than that performance. Some folks have argued groin but concussion makes the most sense.
I had my second concussion skiing. I was off the next day, then went back to teaching. In the middle of a class during that afternoon, I realized that I had no memory of what I taught in the morning classes. Not the content, not the kids that were there, nothing. When I talked to the kids the next day, they said that I seemed off, but nothing really strange, I just seemed to be in a weird mood.
Concussions are strange. My belief is that Foles had his bell rung enough to mess up his ability to process information, but not enough to raise flags with the medical team. Those are just my thoughts based on my experience and what I saw, nothing more substantial than that.
Well, even if Foles is a keeper we’ll eventually see another Dallas type game sooner or later. Donnie was a good franchise QB, but he had his share of games like that – when he would simply be ice cold and off beat, and the team floundered against an opponent we should have been competitive with. You have to hope they come rarely. I do wish we had a QB that could snap out of it when things are going south though and still gut it out and make the adjustments needed to turn things around. Maybe Nick will be that guy.
Fran Duffy looks at the 7 TDs with All-22
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Eagle-Eye-In-The-Sky-Foles-Seven-TDs/42b17046-7d2b-474c-af9e-e414e74ff68b
Fran Duffy – “Foles’ performance was spectacular, as he put his ability to throw with anticipation, win with eye manipulation, create space for himself inside the pocket, move defenders with pump fakes and make touch throws with great ball placement was put on full display.”
I think the above sums up Foles’ performance nicely. Thanks for the reference ICDogg. It was a great read!
Gotta love GCobb on CSN, channeling Sarley: “Not to take anything away from Foles’s performance, but” and then proceeding to describe every TD as “wide open” and/or “extremely lucky.”
Look, I’m not convinced yet, but all the strawman argumentation by the Vick fans is getting tiresome. I’ve neither seen nor heard anyone argue that it’s time to crown Foles the next Drew Brees: please, Vick fans, just stop pretending your bias is some sort of rational reaction to this strawman. The argument is whether Foles has shown enough to be given the opportunity to become “the future,” or at least “the placeholder,” until the opportunity for something better is available at the right value.
The only two people who need convincing that actually matter are Kelly and Foles and I think that process doesn’t just happen on the field
This is why Foles should’ve won the job from the get go. We knew what we had in Vick (shit), we needed to know what we had in Foles…….
Calm down Riley…
Need to see consistency from 9 for the rest of the season. This is still a rebuilding year. Even if 7 sticks around, he has only played a full 16 once, so no matter what, we are going to see the foles/barkley’s. I guess I am in the minority of waiting for the entire season to end before I try and decide what 9 has at QB. He hasn’t even played a full 16 games yet over two seasons.
i certainly think the D has been improving, but expecting to hold GB to 18 is just going to lead to disappointment!
i mean, i’m certainly HOPING they can, but heck, i’ll just be happy if they can hold GB under 30.
my hope is 24 points. It really depends on the health of Rodgers
So this is the 154th comment, not much added value, but, despite being a Foles fan, I generally agree with this post. If he had put up the OAK numbers against DAL, this post would not have existed. If he had put up the DAL #s against OAK, it would not have mattered as much. We would have said let-down after career game, cross-country flight etc. I have been a Foles fan since last year. Some of his games last year were statistically in the top 5 or 6 of the given week. After NYG and Tampa, I thought we were good to go. But that DAL game was scary bad. So I agree, the jury is out for a few more games.
I Agree regarding Foles and last year. I thought he was very impressive for a rookie playing with a team that essentially had quit. I was incredulous when they decided to bring Vick back.
Actually think it was the best thing. Comp. made him better. I think everyone knew he’d have another opportunity during the season. The issues that we saw in pre-season (fumbled snaps, fumbles under pressure, failure to throw deep balls, etc.) he’s remedied over the course of the season.
Regarding the Dallas game… only thing that makes sense when see all the games he played last year and this year (except the Dallas game) is that he must’ve been injured, or hit in the head early and the concussion wasn’t diagnosed until later in the game.
Seriously, how can he be making the throws we saw yesterday, but 3 weeks ago completely miss guys who were easier targets. Something just doesn’t add up unless the guy’s head wasn’t working right.
Aaron Rogers left the game with a shoulder injury 🙂
Hopefully he discount double-checks that shoulder.
If Rodgers, the people’s champ wanna be, is out. It would sure make next week a much easier game.
Off topic, but Nnamdi gettin cut by the 9ers. Not surprising in the least, but man did this guys skills just fall straight off a cliff!
Probably spending too much time pretending he’s on the cast of scandal.
I know right?! lol!!
PFF just put their Team of the Week up. Guess who the QB was? NOT Foles.
That place is a friggin’ joke & that just confirmed it.
Dude even looks like Joe Montana…. a 6’6 Joe Montana 🙂
He’s like two Montanas standing on top of each other.
[…] Buying In On Foles – Thomas Lawlor, Iggles BlitzSome of you want to know why I’m still saying that I need to see more from Nick Foles. He’s looked very good to great in 2.5 games this year. Isn’t that enough to show he can be The Guy? The point I’ve tried to make for a while now is that I want Nick to play well and show that he is a franchise QB. But it takes time to do that. A couple of games isn’t enough. You need a couple of months. […]
We’re also finding out this year that even great QB’s like Brady and Ryan aren’t so great without great wide receivers. Imagine Vick and Foles throwing to Roddy White, Julio Jones, and Gronkowski.