Good Win

Posted: November 11th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 164 Comments »

In Tampa and Oakland, we saw the Eagles play well and win games against bad teams. The Packers were 5-3 and playing at home. They didn’t have their starting QB, but that is still a good team. They played hard and gave the Eagles a good fight, but the Eagles won, 27-13.

That was a good win.

The Eagles were erratic in the 1st half. The offense only scored 10 points. The defense allowed 268 yards. That wasn’t pretty football.

The 2nd half was a different story. The Eagles scored 17 points. The defense got stops early in the 3rd quarter, as the offense was building the lead. The Packers gained just 128 yards in the 2nd half. Part of the reason is that the offense was able to eat up the final 9:32 of the game with a long, methodical drive.

That was one strange game. Officiating both hurt and helped the Eagles. Some of the calls/non-calls were baffling. Injuries were a major factor. CB Bradley Fletcher missed the game. Then Jason Peters, Earl Wolff and Mychal Kendricks went down. That’s a lot of talent on the bench, but the backups came in and played pretty well. There was an obvious play for the Eagles to challenge that they didn’t and it gave GB 36 yards. Huge mistake by the staff. Weather wasn’t a major factor, but it did have some impact. There were swirling winds. The sun gave a few players problems. It was also the coldest game of the year.

A lot of things went right in Oakland and the Eagles won easily. Yesterday was more challenging. That was a tough game. Those are good games, though. They help build the character of the team. Last year the Eagles found ways to lose games. Think about the blown lead against the Lions. Up 23-13 with 5 minutes left and you lose. There was a blown lead in the Steelers game. The Eagles led Cincy at the half and then completely fell apart in the 2nd half. The Eagles and Cowboys played a pair of tight games through 3 quarters last year, only to see the Eagles fall apart in the 4th.

This team isn’t doing that.

The Eagles sealed the Tampa win with a methodical, grinding drive. Yesterday’s game was sealed with a great drive. The lead was extended in the Giants win. The Raiders never got close.

The 2013 Eagles aren’t a good team. But they might be on the way to becoming one. Chip Kelly has done a good job with this group and we’re seeing real signs of progress.

* * * * *

I’m really surprised by how well Bennie Logan has played at NT. He’s impressed the heck out of me. Damion Square still needs to get bigger and stronger.

* * * * *

Is Cary Williams the most frustrating Eagle on this team?

He gives up too many completions and too many yards. Then he makes a big play, like yesterday’s tip to DeMeco for the INT. There are times when I really want Williams gone, but his good moments are good.

Can’t love him, can’t hate him.

* * * * *

In case you were wondering…Allen Barbre is better than Demetress Bell.

* * * * *

Riley Cooper has really stepped his game up this year. He is 28-555-7. He is averaging more yards per catch than DeSean Jackson. That is crazy. Cooper is getting single coverage and he’s not facing elite DBs so we have to temper our praise a bit, but he is doing what you want from a #2 WR. He is making plays when the ball comes his way.

Nick Foles has really been a godsend for Cooper. Foles spreads the ball around and he’s willing to throw to Cooper when he isn’t wide open. That makes all the difference in the world. I wrote at midseason that it is clear Cooper isn’t meant to be a starting WR. I’m happy he’s making me re-think those words. I’m still not sure Cooper should be a starter, but I love the fact that he’s playing well and making the most of his time on the field.

Jeremy Maclin has to be so frustrated as he watches this. He had 7 TDs last year. His career high is 10. Mac would have definitely put up some good numbers this year.

How weird would it be for Cooper to finish with 10 TD catches?

* * * * *

I’ve got plenty to write about Mr. Foles. I’ll save that for a post of its own.


164 Comments on “Good Win”

  1. 1 DarthBanner said at 10:32 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    There was a second horrible non challenge on that spot where the refs gave them an extra 2 yards. Had chipped challenged it would have been 4th down and a probable punt, instead the Packers kept the first down, drove and scored. In fact the first 10 points that the packers scored can be laid right at chips feet, given that his mismanagement of the clock at the end of the half left Green Bay with plenty of time to drive down and kick a field goal. I had hoped with a new coach some of these basic, common sense mistakes that happened under Andy would go away, but clearly they are not.

  2. 2 mheil said at 10:41 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    I believe in time that these game day goofs wil be eliminated. we are talking about a pretty smart guy here.

  3. 3 Tony said at 2:17 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    You’re not dealing with morons here, Lebowski.

  4. 4 P_P_K said at 11:58 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    I believe Chip gets the word about challenging plays from Pat Shumer.

  5. 5 Iskar36 said at 12:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    On the second non-challenge play, I’m not sure it was necessarily a bad decision not to challenge. When I saw the play live, the WR had crossed the first down marker, then was tackled, then AFTER his knee hit the ground, he reached out the ball and the refs may have even given him the “fumble” yardage. While the reach out and fumble yardage were clearly bad referee work, if the WR did in fact cross the first down marker, we would have ultimately lost that challenge because you can only challenge field position calls in terms of gaining or not gaining the first down.

    Like I said, when I saw it live, it seemed to me that he had gained the first down either way, and while the refs gave him additional yards, it was not the difference between the first down and 4th down.

  6. 6 Anders said at 12:13 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    On the reply, the WRs knee and the ball was clearly down ½ yard away from the 1st down marker.

  7. 7 Iskar36 said at 12:16 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    You could be right, I’m basing this on what I thought I saw live and I missed the replay. I’d love to see a gif of the play if someone has it though, just to see where he was when his knee touched the ground.

  8. 8 Anders said at 12:21 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Looking back it, he might have gotten the first down, so it comes down to if it was worth it too challenge for a few yards?

  9. 9 bentheimmigrant said at 12:27 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    If he got the first, then no, because you lose the challenge if the down doesn’t change.

  10. 10 Anders said at 12:32 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    You could challenge the fumble

  11. 11 bentheimmigrant said at 2:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I didn’t mean you couldn’t challenge, but that I wouldn’t throw it away to get a couple yards back if he already has the first.

  12. 12 GermanEagle said at 10:35 AM on November 11th, 2013:


    Can you please provide your assessment re Foles’ mechanics of throwing off his back foot under pressure? This has been an apparent issue since his days in Arizona so I’m not sure if the coaches can unlearn this bad habit?

  13. 13 P_P_K said at 11:57 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    It’s interesting that you say this because I was watching him and thought the exact opposite. It looked to me like he was stepping up well into his passes. I could well be wrong because it’s game speed, I wonder what shows up on tape.

  14. 14 livingonapear said at 4:03 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    It happened once, I think on the interception that went through William’s hands to Avant. It happened a lot in the Dallas game, and then in his next start, after the coaches got on him about it, he didn’t do it against

    Of course if you are predisposed to disliking Foles, it’s a fatal flaw and a confirmed trend.

  15. 15 TheRogerPodacter said at 10:36 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    as i posted in the sunday night game thread (not sure why i did that…)
    but Roob noted that Foles did not throw an incompletion in the second half, going 6 for 6.
    combine that with our running game moving and we had a very productive second half, even if you ignore the final drive.

  16. 16 sprawl said at 10:57 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    I’m curious about what happens when we have to throw it in the 4th quarter. The last 2 games we’ve been in clock kill mode by then but the defenses looked pretty gassed, especially GB’s. I know our defense is spending a lot more time out on the field but Billy Davis does a good job of rotating players in and out.

  17. 17 SteveH said at 10:52 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Reubs is doing his stat thing again, check out some of these Foles numbers:

    I’d file most of this under strange but true, Foles has played well but numerically he’s been off the chart, unexpectedly so.

  18. 18 Beavis said at 10:53 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    carey “sconces” williams is still WAY better then nnamdi AND DRC from last year.

  19. 19 Vik said at 10:57 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    The ghosts of Andy Reid still lurk in the red flag that Chip carries around. Maybe a new challenge flag should do the trick!

  20. 20 BlindChow said at 1:08 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    A green one!

  21. 21 Mike Roman said at 10:58 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Damn Tommy, you are right on about Cary Williams. I was bitching about him left and right to my old man and then when he tipped that pass I said, “and there’s his one big play a game” … so frustrating.

    As for Riley Cooper, when he hobbled off the field after catching that long TD, I said “I never thought I’d say this, but we can’t afford to lose Riley Cooper”.

    Officiating was horrendous. The PF on Foles was ticky tacky but it made up for the non call on McCoy’s face mask.I can’t believe this crew got the illegal touching call right for all the other crap they missed.

  22. 22 Beavis said at 11:00 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    gotta like carey on those bigs WRs tho.. like dez bryant, he really gets into their heads. the smaller and faster guys are a problem for sconces tho..

  23. 23 Pennguino said at 3:03 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Like how Booby Taylor used to play well against Irvin. They excel at a certain player type and struggle with others. It’s all about the matchups

  24. 24 Andy124 said at 3:11 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I LOVED how Taylor played Irvin.

  25. 25 iceberg584 said at 11:11 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Could you imagine if the team had made a knee-jerk reaction and cut him back in August… Jeff Maehl would be starting right now..

  26. 26 Donald Kalinowski said at 10:58 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Cary Williams- the only reason why I don’t hate him is because he’s an improvement over Nnamdi and DRC. If he had replaced someone on the 2002 secondary, I’d be annoyed.

    I love Bradley Fletcher. What a great signing.

  27. 27 Beavis said at 10:59 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Cooper reminds me of larry fitz. not so much his hands as far as high pointing and flying thru the air, but more so his body type, the strength to shrug off DBs while he keeps moving forward. The surprise burst of speed to get YAC. And the long hair as well lol..

  28. 28 Corry said at 10:59 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Trash can is actually a better tackle than Demetress Bell.

    As far as Sconces goes, others have already said it: He’s better than DRC and Nnamdi. That’s a very low bar though.

  29. 29 bentheimmigrant said at 11:05 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Hey… This reminds me… did Trash Can make the team?

  30. 30 Corry said at 11:28 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Practice squad. He’s improving.

  31. 31 Richard O'Connor said at 12:05 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Word on the street has it he’s getting signed to start under center for Green Bay next week.

  32. 32 austinfan said at 11:07 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    There was a Casey sighting again, he’s a solid player, problem is with Ertz and Celek on the team, is he worth spending $4M a year?

    Barbre is actually a decent LT, not great, he got blown up by Matthews on a run play which is a no-no, LTs should not get blown up by guys weighing 50 lbs less, but he was pretty solid in pass protection. Unfortunately, he just isn’t a good OG, which limits his value at age 30 next year. Tobin may be the only potentially decent backup OG on the roster or PS.

    I’ve always thought that Cooper was a solid #2, #2 WRs in the NFL gain around 600-800 yards a season for the most part, and in Chip’s offense, maybe less because they block so much and the ball is spread around – so to me, he’s exceeding expectations. Who do they re-up? Maclin or Cooper? It is obvious that Vick is not good for WRs not named DeSean.

    Maehl made a nice ST tackle, but watching Boykin on GB, I could see him in an expanded role down the line, he has similar skills.

    Logan has been a pleasant surprise, will need the offseason to add strength, but he’s not physically out of place at NT, and adds an athletic dimension. Curry on the other hand, really struggled against the run in the first half, he’s working at it, but probably needs another offseason to get strong enough, but on this team he’s the #3 DE. Square ain’t getting much bigger, I think what you see is what you get, he’s gonna be on the bubble this offseason.

    Carmichael has the physical skills to play CB, but he needs more awareness on the field, could have been called for a couple PI because he didn’t get his head around.

    Chung, I don’t think he returns, lost in space.
    Williams, depends what alternatives present themselves, they don’t have to make a decision until August, but if they can sign a better CB for similar cap hit, bye bye.

  33. 33 bdbd20 said at 11:12 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think Cary is a microcosm of the defensive philosophy. Not gonna shut down the opponent, but will force TO’s. It’s great to see a defense that expects to get turnovers. It’s been a long time.

  34. 34 Donald Kalinowski said at 11:21 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Reminds me of Asante Samuel. Not as good at getting turnovers but much better as a tackler.

  35. 35 Anders said at 1:04 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Samuel was much at blanketing the WR tho.

  36. 36 Anders said at 11:15 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Regarding the refs. This was defiently one of those games where the DBs was allowed to be physical. The DPI on Boykin was text book PI, had he just turned his head, he would have intercepted it. Same with William in the endzone and Carmichael down in the red zone. We could have had 3-4 more ints if our DBs was better.

  37. 37 BlindChow said at 1:04 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    One thing that’s been consistent over the past three years: our DB’s never turn to look for the ball. Is that not something that can be coached?

  38. 38 Anders said at 1:07 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Its tough when you play man coverage. Maybe Revis and Sherman are the only two guys who can play man and still be good enough to turn around consistently.

    All most all interceptions happens on soft coverage or trail where you can undercut the ball.

  39. 39 Ark87 said at 11:24 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Crazy that we are 5-5….and every win came on the road. Hopefully the home crowd focuses on our overall record rather than our home records, Give us some positive energy.

  40. 40 TheRogerPodacter said at 11:41 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    we’re already better than last season!

  41. 41 RC5000 said at 4:09 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    The Eagles home record has little if anything to do with the crowd and really brings positive energy every week and that is after paying big money and watching them lose at home. If there has been anyone in that stadium lacking positive energy it’s the team.

  42. 42 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 11:26 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    After the first half, I had a real bad feeling we were going to somehow find a way to lose this game, just like we’ve seen the last couple of years.
    That 9+ minute drive to end it shows us that we can now stop living in the past. New coaches, new players, new attitude – adds up to more W’s already than all of last season!

  43. 43 OregonDucker said at 12:51 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Agree, the 9+ minute drive against the Green Bay Packers cannot be overstated. This drive reflected the overarching strategy Chip is using to win – tempo catches up to the D big boys in a BIG way, OL play and Shady running in 4th quarter is a game changer, the ability of Foles to run if needed and pass effectively cannot be overstated enough. The Eagles are dangerous in the 4th quarter. Foles and Shady are dangerous players for any D at this time. What is really cool is that the players are starting to believe.

  44. 44 anon said at 2:30 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    big change from games 1 and 2 where we couldnt bleed the clock

  45. 45 new coach said at 11:29 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    The game felt like a game we would have lost the past several years.. so the fact that we won is great!

    Have to love how Foles is playing. I hope he is the long term answer.. Hardest thing is getting a QB in the NFL.. would be dumb to dump him for a mobile guy who may not pan out. But, at worst, he would get us a first rounder.

    The Kapernick, RG3 experience may give teams pause long term about mobile guys. Not to say they won’t have great careers. But something is to be said about the steady Brees, Manning, Alex Smith, or Luck.

  46. 46 Dr. Claw said at 5:45 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Luck and Smith are actually more “mobile QBs” than either Brees or Manning. In particularly Luck. That offense doesn’t seize on the option of him taking off with the ball — he’s sort of like Favre and Romo are.

    and that Chiefs offense is HORRID.– I actually don’t think Alex Smith is being utilized well in that “let the defense carry the team” model (i.e. the Ben/Eli/Flacco vein)

    I wouldn’t kick Foles off the team but I’m still not sold on him as the long term answer. Anyone on the Eagles roster right now screams “stopgap”, and really have been since Vick took over for Kolb. If only the Eagles had tanked in 2011…

  47. 47 Allen3000 said at 11:42 AM on November 11th, 2013:

    Have you realized that Cooper has more TD catches this season than Avant has had in total over the past 5 seasons? That’s mind boggling to me. Like you I’m cautiously optimistic regarding his ability to be an effective long term solution as a viable #2. He’s obviously no J-Mac, but he’s filling in nicely and stepping up where other WRs aren’t.

  48. 48 Anders said at 12:00 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Are you ready to give Cooper 6 mill a year? Because that is what his current play his going to get him. Some team will give up money for him to be their big outside WR.

  49. 49 cliff henny said at 12:06 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    6m? i go back and forth on howie, but do love the way he manages cap. cant see them giving coop that kind of scratch. sure kelly/howie see the ridiculous wr class coming out too

  50. 50 ACViking said at 12:18 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Roseman is still a cap-roob compared to Banner.

    Heck, everyone’s a cap-roob compared to Banner.

    But both Don Smolenski and Roseman learned from the cap-master, that’s for sure.

  51. 51 cliff henny said at 12:22 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    the cole, herrmanns contracts go back to the reid vs howie never-ending dog chasing tail arguement. the cap looks great, even with couple clunkers in there.

  52. 52 ACViking said at 1:58 PM on November 11th, 2013:


    Those hurt. At the time and now.

    I get the love for Coles and Herremans. But when an NFL team gets soft in the heart, you end up with bad contracts.

  53. 53 Cafone said at 2:01 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Roseman cares about talent first. Banner just saw numbers. I’ll take Roseman’s combination of talent evaluation and cap intelligence over Banner’s balance sheet roster building every day of the week.

  54. 54 ACViking said at 2:15 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Banner WAS NOT the talent guy.

    Reid and Heckert . . . then Reid and Roseman were.

    All Banner did was say, “No Extension For This Guy”

    Moreover, we have no clue what Smolenski’s role is on the Cap side.

  55. 55 Allen3000 said at 12:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    6 mill is a bit steep considering he wouldn’t even be in the position to put up these #’s without season ending injuries to J-Mac and Aurellius Benn. Perhaps Cooper would have started ahead of Benn, but I’d be willing to bet that Benn would have pushed Cooper for more reps – especially given how awful Cooper looked in those first 4-5 games of the season.
    To answer your question, No, I would not be willing to pay Cooper 6 mill a season. I acknowledge that re-signing J-Mac is risky given his propensity to getting injured, but he still provides a dimension (speed, ability to consistently get separation from good DBs) that Cooper doesn’t. I wouldn’t be opposed to drafting a guy like Allen Robinson (2nd round) or someone of that talent level in the 2nd/3rd round. But at this point, I’d rather re-sign J-Mac and bring in/draft a guy to someday replace Avant in the slot.

  56. 56 Anders said at 12:12 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I like Cooper and he has a nice connection with Foles, but I love Maclin more and think he would have better numbers than Cooper.

    I agree, I say keep Maclin (he might also be cheaper next year and I do not want to give Cooper 6 mill) and draft a WR in round 2-4

  57. 57 Cafone said at 2:28 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    You could say he’s really jumped over a fence this year.

  58. 58 A_T_G said at 3:43 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    JR Reid is not amused.

  59. 59 ACViking said at 3:46 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Thought for a moment you were referring to former NC Tar Heel basketballer J.R. “Can’t” Reid (a notorious Duke students’ chant).

    Then I realized its JR Reed. (2 ee’s – hope you don’t mind the correction)

  60. 60 A_T_G said at 4:05 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Not at all, thanks. I fixed it above.

  61. 61 bentheimmigrant said at 12:12 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Off topic (and team), but I have to say I’m looking forward to Andy taking on the Broncos this week. He’s coming off a bye (we know what that should mean), playing to put a real claim on that division title… The D is phenomenal (less than 13 points a game?!?!?!), and will face its biggest test of the season at Denver. Could be a great one.

  62. 62 Anders said at 12:15 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think that D is a fraud.

    We put up over 400 yards on them with relatively eas and we had 5 turnovers (unless you think the Chiefs defense can Jedi mind trick to get Johnson to muff a punt and Kelce to mis fire 2 snaps) or we would have won that game.

    Look at the slew of 2nd and 3rd string QBs they have faced and there offense cant even move the ball right now.

  63. 63 bentheimmigrant said at 12:20 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Fair, their schedule hasn’t been the toughest… But they’ve slowed good offenses, and demolished bad ones. Our game maybe should have messed their numbers a bit more than it did (no one has scored as many points against them as us), but they’re still doing something right.

  64. 64 Anders said at 12:22 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    They are getting a lot of sacks and turnovers, but a good run game can burn them and I think had we had Foles and not Vick in that game, we would have won (Vick hates man coverage)

  65. 65 ACViking said at 12:24 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Would have *loved* to see Foles against the Chiefs.

    Would’ve been a nice test, given (as you wrote) the Chiefs have an excellent pass rush and are very good at generating TOs.

  66. 66 BlindChow said at 1:00 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Well, there’s always the Super Bowl!

  67. 67 ACViking said at 12:14 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: 2013 Eagles’ Opposing QBs

    After 10 weeks, the Eagles are 5-5.

    The wins came against QBs whose rank in the elaborate ratings system are:

    17 – Griffin
    18 – Glennon
    30 – Pryor
    31 – EManning, and
    *unrated* – Tolzein (based on yesterday, he’d nose out Pryor for 30th if he had enough attempts)

    The Eagles losses came against QBs whose rank are:

    1 – PManning
    4 – PRivers
    6 – TRomo
    21 – ASmith
    31 – EManning

    I mention these numbers only to note that Aaron Rodgers currently ranks 3rd — with 15 TDs and 4 INTs (Tolzein halved that number in 1 game).

    The game yesterday was nice because Foles had another opportunity to show his wares.

    But the win itself? If Ford Frick were alive, he’d give it an asterick.

    That’s not to say the Eagles wouldn’t have won. I’d have loved to see a shoot-out between GB and the Birds.

    I’m only cautious about the meaning of this particular win in the bigger scheme of where the 2013 Eagles currently stand versus the teams with the best QBs.

  68. 68 Anders said at 12:16 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Couldnt you put the same giant asterisk out side many of the Chiefs, Seahawks or hottest team in the NFL the Panthers wins?

  69. 69 ACViking said at 12:21 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    My point is the Eagles beat a 3rd-string QB yesterday — not Aaron Rodgers.

    How many 3rd-stringers have accounted for losses to the Panthers, Seahawks and Chiefs?

    That’s different from saying those teams have good defenses and the QB benefits when playing the opposing 1st-string QB.

    If Rodgers plays yesterday, the game would have been very different. And if the Eagles won, I’d be the first to say the team’s taken a GIANT step forward.

    In any event, at this point, I don’t believe the Eagles are in the same zip code as SF, Seattle, or Carolina.

  70. 70 Anders said at 12:31 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Cheifs have beat the following QBs:

    Gabbart, Romo, Vick (would call him average), Eli (having one of his worst seasons), Fitzpatrick, Pryor, Keenum, Campbell, Tuel.

    Best QB of that grp is Romo.


    This is slightly better, but not really:

    Newton (Panthers are winning with Defense, not with Newton), Kaepernick (not really that good this year), Henne, Schaub (might actually be worse than Keenum), Fitzpatrick, Palmer, K Clemens, Glennon, Ryan (very much like Eli this season)

    Not going to go trough SF and the Panthers, but every great defense is often great because of the crappy offenses they face.

  71. 71 BlindChow said at 12:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    The Chiefs have 3 wins against 3rd stringers. Andy Reid strikes again!

  72. 72 ACViking said at 12:56 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Thanks for the stat!

  73. 73 eagleyankfan said at 12:31 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Nobody is asking to block off the streets in Phili for a parade. It’s a win against a team the Eagles caught at the right time. The Giants get a break also – what they do with it is another story. Enjoy the win. Who cares how?

  74. 74 ACViking said at 12:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Who cares how?

    After 50 years of watching the Eagles, I care.

    I care about whether the team is improving.

    I care about whether the QB play is good.

    I care if the Eagles make the playoffs at the expense of a draft choice 10 picks closer to the top.

    Because it’s not just about wins and losses for me in 2013.

    It’s about winning a SB sometime in my lifetime . . . which is getting shorter and shorter.

  75. 75 Anders said at 1:03 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think we can all agree this team is improving, both so far over the season and over last years team.

    If we are a true 10-6 team, getting in the play off does not really hurt our draft position. The real problem is if we get in at 7-9

  76. 76 ACViking said at 1:56 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    A —

    Thanks for the breakdown. Well said.

  77. 77 Andy124 said at 2:59 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    If the point is that the Eagles still aren’t a real contender this year, I absolutely agree. I assume it’s not really debatable. So yes, wins hurt our draft position without really improving on our essentially 0% title hopes for this year.

    However there are positives to take from these games. The defense is deeply flawed, but far improved from last year with reason to hope for more improvement as talent is added. Primarily an OLB that can apply pressure on the QB.

    It’s looking more and more like we don’t have a major need at QB (final evaluation deferred to after the season when all evidence is collected). That is obviously Checkbox 1, 2 and 3 on the way to bringing home that trophy. It also makes it easier to fill other holes on the roster (like OLB). And regardless of the results of his evaluation, at least the evaluation is finally taking place.

    Wins are a heckuva lot more fun to watch than losses.

    There is the intangible, “knowing how to win” that this team appears to be getting the hang of, and that can pay dividends for the future as well.

    We could make a case that proper evaluation is more important than say, 10 spots in the draft when it comes to drafting success. Results on the field have provided cause for hope in our FO’s office to perform at a high level there.

    I do think, regardless of the level of opponent, our D is improving as measured by the eye test. One thing especially notable about the GB td to Bostick on what appeared to be a blown coverage, is that it was notable. Blown coverages are no longer the norm. That’s a low bar to set, but they’ve cleared it and now we can set a higher bar for next year.

  78. 78 ACViking said at 3:09 PM on November 11th, 2013:


    Yes to all you wrote.

    All I was trying to show is that the Eagles have had a great deal of success as QB-bottom feeders this season.

    And if Rodgers played, I think it’s likely a loss. And, in the process, a shoot-out.

    So I saw yesterday’s win through the glass-half-empty.

    I think about this season and foresee GB getting a better draft position than the Eagles. GB already has Rodgers, plus J-Nelson, JJones, Boykin, Bostic, and Lacy. They don’t need a higher pick than the Eagles.

    That said, any game that *forces* Nick Foles to step up and carry this team is a great game — win or lose.

    Yesterday wasn’t that game without Rodgers. It could have been . . . and looking at the longterm, that’s what Foles and Kelly need.

    At least, that’s my theory at the moment.

  79. 79 P_P_K said at 3:32 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    You raise a valid point. In addition, though, I am happy to see the Eagles beating teams they should beat.

  80. 80 ACViking said at 3:36 PM on November 11th, 2013:


    Yes, you’re right.

    It’s good to see them beat a 3rd-stringer . . . because if they don’t, this team’s in a heap of hurt.

    Even with a poor pass-rush, the Eagles are beating the lesser teams.

    And the difference is at QB. Maybe Vick wins these games, too. But that’s the difference between the teams the Eagles and the teams they’re beating right now.

  81. 81 planetx1971 said at 6:02 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I apprecite & understand all your points. I guess I’m just taking the high road here AC but i’m grateful. Grateful that we’ve got 5 wins & that we’re not a TOTAL rebuilding mess we could & were expected to be, grateful for Chip not being another Spurrier (haven’t listened to much of that noise of late!) Grateful that ANYBODY is even debating if we’re “for real”. VERY pleased to see our SUPPOSED “2nd stringer” accomplishing what he has so far. This could have so easily been a truly embarrassing debacle with a college coach as we all know, but hope abounds. also seems already to be a place & system a quality player would want to be a part of. That said, now that I’ve past 40 years old my patience is waning for a championship. Oddly enough, one of the things I want it so much is for all my neices nephews, younger cousins & anyone else I could brainwash into being an Eagles fan. Now I feel responsible for all the b.s. they have to deflect for our team not having a S.B. trophy. This was good, I feel better, thanks AC lol

  82. 82 Iskar36 said at 12:17 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    To me, I want my #2 WR to be a guy that can get open on his own without the QB throwing him open, so from that standpoint, I would still like to upgrade Cooper. However, as long as he doesn’t disappear the rest of the season, I think Cooper has played well enough that upgrading the #2 WR spot has gone from an absolute necessity to a position that is a lot lower on the priority list.

  83. 83 bsuperfi said at 1:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I get this, but I think the “throwing a WR open” meme is starting to get a little too much play. The first counterargument I think of is someone like Boldin who can’t run but knows how to make space with his body and grabs anything that comes his way in traffic. In my mind, Boldin at his peak was never more than a 1B receiver (say, like Mason in his prime). But the point is that there’s a place for WRs who can make plays with the ball in the air and use their body well.

    I’m not suggesting that Cooper is as good as Boldin. But Cooper brings some other things to the table too. A surprising burst, some physical YAC, and most importantly, a rapport with Foles. He likely not worth $6 million as some think his price tag may be. But I’m not sure it’s clear that he can’t be a productive 2 or a really good 3.

    As with Foles, I’m taking an optimistic wait and see approach with Cooper at this point.

  84. 84 bill said at 2:27 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    To amplify your point, I think your QB has to be willing to throw to big receivers when they’re “covered.” The “throw ’em open” meme is overstating it in the first place. The QB doesn’t do that, he just recognizes the pattern that is forming and can anticipate that the WR will come open for a short period. Most big WRs don’t outrun coverage – they “pop” open, and if you’re waiting for them to be open to throw the ball, you’re probably going to miss the window. More importantly, however, you have to throw the anticipation throws to get the WR to continue to run the routes with precision and to force the DBs to play tighter. If you *never* throw the anticipation routes, I don’t care who the WR is, they aren’t going to get too invested in running it correctly. And if you don’t throw them, the DBs can play off a little further, knowing that they always have time to make a break for the ball. If the DB is playing closer, the WR can actually get open easier, as was seen in Cooper’s 2nd TD yesterday – he got wide open because the DB jumped up and bit on the fake crossing pattern. Finally, as you note, if you don’t throw when the WR is covered, your wasting the best talent of the big WR, which is the ability to go get the ball in a contested area.

    I think Cooper can be a productive 2 in Chip’s offense, because Chip seems to value blocking quite a bit in his WRs, so he’s going to favor big WRs. Unless you’re willing to invest significant resources into acquiring a Fitz or Megatron, you’re going to have live with a #2 that doesn’t run away from coverage consistently.

  85. 85 eagleyankfan said at 12:32 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    They are not a good team — but very fun to watch. Almost doubled the win total from last year. Who’s next? Bring em on….lol.

  86. 86 D3FB said at 12:33 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Five is almost twice as much as four?

  87. 87 eagleyankfan said at 12:34 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    almost — we’re getting there…give it time….

  88. 88 A_T_G said at 5:59 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    We are 50% of the way to having 50% more wins than last year.

  89. 89 BlindChow said at 12:53 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    It’s also almost once as much as four!

  90. 90 bridgecoach said at 12:40 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I really like that Foles played through some advertsity. Foles had a rough 2nd quarter. 8 pass attempts. 6 incompletions. And the two completions were short passes to Cooper and Jackson with big YAC (25, 21) on the same drive. Both 2nd Quarter drives had huge scoring potential- starting with amazing field position first after Boykins INT and second after 46 yds of YAC from Cooper and Jackson – both drives stalled and we had to settle for field goal attempts and we missed one of them.

    Loved to see him go 5 for 5 in the 3rd quarter and tack on 17 points.

  91. 91 ACViking said at 1:25 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: Who is Milt Plum? And Why He Deserves Some Love

    Plum’s the QB who started the 1960 season with 16 straight TDs before his 1st INT in game 10. A Penn State grad from Woodbury NJ.

    Plum — a 2x Pro Bowler — had the misfortune of playing in the era of Unitas, Starr, Title, Jurgenson, Tarkenton, and Ryan Ph.D.

    In Plum’s first 5 seasons as a starter for Cleveland and Detroit (1958-62), his record was 42-18 — a .700 winning percentage equal to winning 11 games now.

    In 1958, his Browns lost a playoff game to the NYG for the right to face the Colts in the Title game — the game that became “The Greatest Game Ever Played” when FB Alan Ameche scored for the Colts in OT.

    Everyone remembers Unitas. No one remembers Plum.

    In 1960, his Browns finished 8-3-1 for 2nd place behind the World Champoin Eagles. Everyone remembers Dutch Van Brocklin and the emerging Bart Starr. No one remembers Plum.

    In 1961, his Browns finished 8-5-1, a game-and-a-half behind the East Division Champion Giants. Sonny Jurgenson threw a still-Eagle record of 32 TDs. The Packers beat the G-men, with Starr outplaying YA Title. Plum’s again forgotten.

    In 1962, Plum joined the Detroit Lions — in the same division as the Packers. He led Detroit to a 11-3 record. Not good enough to top the 11-1-2 World Champion Packers. No one remembers Plum.

    Plums’ career sagged with the fortunes of the Lions after that great ’62 season. But he routinely finished among the top 5 passers in attempts, completions, yards, TDs and fewest INTs during his best years.

    Plum was no Bobby “Hurricane” Hazzle — the wonder who hit .407 in half a season for the 1957 world champion Milwaukee Braves, then hit below .200 in 1958 and was out of baseball.

    Plum just had the bad luck of playing against 6 HOF QBs.

  92. 92 Ark87 said at 2:19 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    wait….the packers had two ties in one season??? Were ties more common in the 60’s?

    Kind of a sad story for Plum, who do you think is Plums modern day equivalent or will end their careers as one?

  93. 93 ACViking said at 2:35 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Yes, in a word, ties were fairly routine back in the “olden days”. And 2 ties in a season was unusual but not uncommon: Raiders in ’64, ’70, ’72; Chiefs in ’63, ’65, ’70, and ’73; Eagles in ’63; 49ers in ’66 and ’69; Rams in ’64 and ’67. In fact, in ’63 and ’67 the Steelers and Vikings had 3 ties, respectively. The last team with 3 ties was the ’72 Chargers.

    The NFL eliminated ties in regulation starting with the 1975 season. Until then, OT was limited to the post-season.

    More interesting (to me, at least) is that prior to the 1972 season, a tie did NOT count in calculating the standings. Instead, the NFL looked solely at Ws and Ls to calculate winning percentage. A tie was treated as a game never played.

    Starting in ’72, a tie counted as half a win and half a loss, ensuring all teams’ winning percentages were based on 14 games played.

    So — back to the 1962 the Packers. Their record for purposes of the regular-season standings was 11-1 — a .917 winning percentage. The Lions’ in ’62 at 11-3 had a meager .785 winning percentage.

  94. 94 Ark87 said at 3:05 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    that’s so crazy! So a team that goes 12-0-2 would have technically been perfect?

    Hmm, no OT in the regular season, I kind of like that, I certainly would have preferred it to the sudden death, the first person to score a point, wins, style we had until recently.

  95. 95 ACViking said at 3:22 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Ties back in the ’60s and ’70s were great games.

    The teams did not play at all like in the NHL before OT.

    Teams tried to win.

    And the effect of ties on standings were great — before and after ’72.

    Interesting that you mention going 12-0-2 and being considered “perfect” pre-’72 season.

    In 1967 — with just one game left in the season — the Baltimore Colts were 11-0-2. A perfect record.

    Right behind them were the Rams at 10-1-2.

    They faced each other in the last regular season game in LA, winner take all (since they’d tied earlier in the season).

    The Rams clobbered the Colts 34-10, and with both teams finishing 11-1-2 they took the division.

    The 9-4-1 Packers then beat the Rams in the divisional playoffs 28-7 . . . setting up the “Ice Bowl.”

    Yeah, ties were pretty cool — at least for the fans.

    and a chance to clinch their DiWestern Rams started the season 11

  96. 96 P_P_K said at 3:29 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Great stuff. I’m putting you on my commenter fantasy team.

  97. 97 scratcherk said at 1:31 PM on November 11th, 2013:


    Trying to find this answer but not sure what to google. What is the scooping motion touchdown/celebration dance that everyone does?


  98. 98 livingonapear said at 3:34 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think it’s supposed to be “eat ’em up!” as in, I just had you guys for lunch.

  99. 99 theycallmerob said at 6:35 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Cousin Terio. Oooooh–nfl.html

  100. 100 scratcherk said at 7:01 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Thank you! it was driving me nuts.

  101. 101 ACViking said at 1:46 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: Pass Rush

    I hope we’ll hear more about that in the DGR.

    On thing the season’s shown is this team urgently needs to upgrade this part of the defense to compete — and win — in the next level of teams.

    Graham’s not the answer. Cole’s just about done. Barwin’s an all-around OLB, but not a pass-rusher per se.

    ANDERS . . . this topic’s in your wheelhouse.

    GEagle, too.

    And other commenters, as well.

  102. 102 D3FB said at 3:21 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    It’s going to be tough to find. Barr and Clowney the two studs of the class will both be gone long before we pick. Khalil Mack who many consider the third best OLB candidate could likely also be off the board if we are picking in the mid/late teen or early twenties.

    Likely Candidates

    -Kyle Van Noy who I personally love and has the excellent combination of speed and violent hands to be a great pass rusher, on top of his solid coverage skills, is only 6’3 235 so he needs to put on about 15 lbs to be anything more than a situational rusher.

    -Vic Beasly is a fastball DE who from watching live comes off as a fastball DE that can be fairly one dimensional. At this point he reminds me of Aaron Maybin too much for me to be comfortable.
    -Moving down the board a bit we come to Stanfords Trent Murphy who has the size Chip would love at 6’5 260lbs however he is more of an effort type of big guy rather than the type of freak you want as your primary OLB
    -Adrian Hubbard is another big guy who had a good year for Bama last year but has only had one sack thus far this season. Can’t find any tape of him to try and figure it out either.
    -Finally Jerimiah Attachou of Georgia Tech goes 6’3 245. He is a solid if unspectacular player. Good pass rusher with some moves and quickness however probably never going to be a double digit sack performer, or someone that teams have to game plan against.

  103. 103 ACViking said at 3:24 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Thanks. Great stuff.

    The Steelers were good at finding undersized DEs at small D-I schools — then giving them a year or so to convert to a PR-OLB. I’m hoping someone like that is on the board for the Eagles.

  104. 104 livingonapear said at 4:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I would love to see Kyle Van Noy on the Eagles. I understand your weight concerns, as I thought he was a safety for some time, but he seems too explosive to leave on the board.

  105. 105 theycallmerob said at 6:37 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Van Noy for president OLB

  106. 106 D3FB said at 8:56 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I’ve loved him since he won them their bowl game by himself. He is no doubt a hell of an athlete and playmaker but i have concerns about his ability to hold up in run defense unless he puts on 10 to 15 lbs. I would still do backflips if we get him.

  107. 107 A Roy said at 4:35 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Concur with most that pressing need is stud OLB. Beyond that, everything else is just incremental upgrade. Agree they should be rolling the dice routinely on QBs, but for the most part, BPA should be the way to go.

  108. 108 planetx1971 said at 2:09 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Maybe I’m delusionsal but I’m putting Coops TD total @ 13 or so. *IF Foles takes us the rest of the way of course* God I hope so!

  109. 109 Cafone said at 2:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Time to start Cooper over DeSean Jackson on your fantasy teams!

  110. 110 ACViking said at 2:40 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: The Missed Challenge on the 36-yard Sideline Pass

    Shurmur’s taking the heat.

    But I’d like to know — after the early season misfires on challenges — *precisely* what Kelly’s order have been to Shurmur since then.

    Did Kelly say, “Has to Be Clear as Day”?

    Or has Kelly left the standard for when to drop the flag entirely in Shurmur’s hands?

    I’m guessing that Kelly’s set some guidelines. And, despite what we think, Shurmur didn’t think Boykin’s catch met the guidelines.

    Or not.

  111. 111 Baloophi said at 4:33 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Good question…

    I wonder how other teams approach the challenge… challenge.

  112. 112 BlindChow said at 6:34 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think the guidelines will change after this game. It wouldn’t surprise me if they assigned a “quality control” guy to monitor the game feed.

  113. 113 ACViking said at 3:02 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: Is QB the Eagles “Missing Piece” . . . Or Something Else?

    Kelly’s offense — not unlike Reid’s with McNabb and 2 guys off the street at WR in the 2000-03 era — has looked good enough to get points against anyone so far. Yes, the Dallas and second NYG games were bad. But they look like anomalies right now.

    Whether Vick or Foles, points get on the board. (Foles and the offense, though, did regress to the mean yesterday in the RZ. Don’t want to see that again next week or questions will be raised, rightly.)

    So where’s the best place to improve the Eagles?

    O-line? Peters and Herremans are not what they were just 2 years ago. And the back-ups, Barbe’s performance yesterday included, are essentially unknowns as far as being 16-game starters. Maybe a high pick.

    TE? Celek’s been de-emphasized. He, not Casey, could be cut loose and a younger kid brought in. But a high pick? I don’t know abt that.

    DL? Logan will make the decision easy if he keeps progressing.

    OLB? Upgrade . . . huge pass-rushing upgrade is needed. Maybe the answer is in the 1st Rd. Maybe not. But I think lots and lots of OLBs will be in TC next season.

    ILB? I think Ryans is back next year with a restructured deal.
    **** OregonDucker – What’s Kelly’s view on pricy veteran leadership? ****


    CB? Any team that’s not always trying to upgrade at CB is foolish. How’s that?

    S? Allen and Wolff have stabilized the position. But the Eagles need a


    The position I’ve not mentioned is . . . QB.

    QB? I think if a talented, mobile QB — by whatever standard Roseman and Kelly use — fell to the Eagles in Rd 1, the Eagles would draft him . . . at the expense of all their other needs.

    Why? Because no matter what Foles does this year, it’s been written (and re-written) that Kelly wants competition. So maybe not in 2014 will a rookie QB challenge Foles. But what about 2015?

    And when the Eagles play a tougher schedule next season with Foles, presumably, as the QB, we may see a different QB. Not a lot different. But also not as insanely Brady/Manning-esque.

    What better position is there for Kelly to have competition than QB, particularly with someone fleet afoot to challenge Foles.

  114. 114 Stormbringer said at 3:23 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I’ve been one of the ones banging the drum for a QB with some mobility in the past. As I watch more of Foles, while he isn’t a big threat, he actually does pull it down and run some and that to me is what is needed. The fact Foles was occasionally running (and in a timely manner) helps Chippah’s system work (D can’t disregard that option). I didn’t see Barkley do this at all.

    All that being said, if the they have a chance to draft Mariota (cheap to move up) or Manziel is still on the board when they draft, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them draft either.

    As to who they should draft, I’d say #1 need is a pass rushing OLB though I figure Barr will be gone and the kid from Clemson scares me in the mid-1st round (seems like Bryan Smith to me – not big and neither really strong, quick or fast). I could see them getting Louis Nix as he’s considered a value in mid-1st round and is a position of need as well. If we go purely BPA (as Howie says he does) I’d figure the best on the board (from the ones Baloophi put on the other thread) it would be Marquis Lee or Ryan Shazier.

  115. 115 Andy124 said at 4:29 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Re: Barkley’s lack of running.

    He’s the last guy off the bench. No one but James Casey behind him. I wonder if he’s instructed not to run when he goes in there.

  116. 116 Baloophi said at 4:34 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Is he also instructed to not throw to his own teammates?

  117. 117 Michael Winter Cho said at 9:35 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Because, as we know, if the 3rd string QB goes down, we’ll probably lose that game?

  118. 118 Dr. Claw said at 5:38 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Barkley’s lack of running wasn’t the issue, it’s the just general “awareness” of what’s on the field that was a problem. He held on to the ball way too long, even moreso than Brandon Weeden… and if you’ve ever seen Brandon Weeden…

  119. 119 A_T_G said at 3:32 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think we already have the competition on the roster. I think they will bring in a couple guys to compete for the third spot, but I think Foles and Barkley will be QB1 and QB2 next year.

  120. 120 ACViking said at 3:42 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Very well may be.

    But the print media’s been pushing the meme that Roseman and Kelly want to approach the QB position the way SF and Seattle have . . . take a QB frequently and hope to hit a HR.

    GB’s GM of the ’90s, Ron Wolf, did that routinely. And he hit on Hasselbeck, Brunnell, and Ty Detmer — all of whom he traded for more draft picks, including a 1st for Hasselbeck.

    Reid had the same directive when he was head of Eagles’ football ops. Maybe not to the same degree as Wolf. But Reid was always looking for a QB to add to the mix.

  121. 121 A_T_G said at 4:04 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I agree with this completely, but I don’t think you use your first rounder in this strategy, which was how I interpreted the premise of your original post.

  122. 122 P_P_K said at 3:53 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I agree with you. I think both these guys have the potential to be NFL caliber qbs.

  123. 123 Dr. Claw said at 5:37 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I don’t agree with Barkley ever improving to professional NFL QB. What he showed out there made me wish the Eagles had Tim Tebow… if only for a game.

    Foles on the other hand has been getting some ridiculous bounces of fate against really bad teams that make me cautious. but I’d bank on him being more of an NFL QB than Barkley at this point…

  124. 124 A_T_G said at 5:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    When I filled up my tank recently, I reset the average mpg calculation. As I left the station and stepped on the gas (harder than strictly necessary) it said I was getting an average of 4 mpg! Right then and there I was ready to declare that the car was not fit for road use and leave it on the shoulder.

    Then, as I coasted down the hill to the stop sign, it said I was averaging 99 mpg! Best car ever!

    Then I pulled out from the stop sign…

    Now I am thinking that maybe I need to be patient. The car used to get good mileage around our old home, before having a wheel bearing worked on. I think maybe it is too soon to judge how well it will perform now and I need to be patient until I gather a little more data.

  125. 125 RobNE said at 3:37 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Pass rushing OLB seems to give the biggest upgrade of the team. I think the Eagles like Logan as the NT of the future (and capable of playing other positions), and therefor I don’t think Nix will be on their board that high. Safety? Is Nate growing on folks?

  126. 126 ACViking said at 3:50 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Nate’s an enigma.

    Need to see turnovers.

    But maybe that’s a function of a better pass rush. Actually, I have no doubt it is.

  127. 127 RobNE said at 4:01 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Right, so back to rushing OLB – seems far and away the biggest area where we could greatly improve the team (and other positions on the D) by upgrading. It’s a shame if we outpace our draft positions by winning too much, but who knows. The order of the draft is unknown, the order of player rankings is not settled, there is free agency. So many variables. Yet the division is there right now if we can take it and I can’t root against the Eagles anyway so I can just try to enjoy the ride and worry about who is available to pick once the season is over or playoffs are out of reach.

  128. 128 Baloophi said at 4:15 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    If Eli Manning can win two Super Bowls, there’s no reason we can’t win one this year.

  129. 129 jshort said at 4:40 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Bold statement!!……The thing is, that’s what has been going through my head today. This team is somehow starting to play some good football. Luck is always part of the equation, even on a SB team. (behind the helmet catch) etc, If this team continues to improve, never know, we might be picking last in the draft.

  130. 130 Baloophi said at 4:58 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    To be fair, it’s certainly not likely. But, to RobNE’s point (and yours!), we’re currently tied for first in the division and as we’ve seen (more so recently than in the past), once you’re in the post-season, you never know.

    In terms of couching everything in a draft position argument, that should only be debated once you’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. Once again, that’s RobNE’s point.. so, basically, whatever RobNE says!

  131. 131 jshort said at 5:44 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Know it’s not likely, but possible. I’m in AC’s league, when it comes to being a 50+ yr fan. my first recollection of the Eagles , was seeing them loose to the collage all-stars, must have been in 61. Championship team got to play them, not even sure what time of year. point is, me personally never saw a championship. I too want to see us win a SB, before my window of opportunity expires

  132. 132 RobNE said at 5:05 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I agree which is why I think until we are eliminated, I will root like heck for the division title. Every game can’t be a test of whether we can beat Rodgers. All winning teams get breaks in the schedule and luck on the field. Could we win the division and be exposed and lose, and have a worse draft pick? Yes. But I will take that risk to have the chance at the lottery of the playoffs even if our odds of winning the SB may be worse than other team’s (like Seattle for example).

  133. 133 Baloophi said at 4:09 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    The QB conundrum is fascinating.

    In an interesting way, you can read Foles’s success differently:

    1) He’s a good to very-good young quarterback coming into his own.


    2) He’s “simply” a product of Kelly’s system… the “I could make that throw” argument.

    Either way you look at it, it seems like Foles could and SHOULD be the quarterback moving forward. That being said, whether you draft competition for him using the valuable resource of a 1st round pick is a slightly different question.

    In terms of offensive success, I’m starting to believe Chip can turn you-know-what into chicken salad (Chipken salad???). BUT, I think the engine that drives his offense is a successful running attack. Meaning, it’s much easier to make chicken salad if you have a running back and/or offensive line that strikes fear in the collective heart of a defense. That’s a long and confusing way of saying that – perhaps – for Chip Kelly, the QB isn’t as important to his offense as he is to others. Also, I’m craving a chicken salad sandwich now.

    Another (and strange way to look at things) is to ask how much better you think the offense would be if you could just kidnap Russell Wilson and make him our quarterback. I don’t think anyone would question that it would be better, but since we can’t do that, is that projected improvement in the offense worth the risk in finding the next Russell Wilson by spending the pick(s) to get him, and not apply those resources to other areas of need… such as an impact OLB, or multiple DBs?

  134. 134 cliff henny said at 5:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    maybe he’s both, a good qb in the right system, with a pretty good coach. kelly was 4/4 w/ qbs at oregon, vick looked geat, cant argue with foles production. if i’m drafting, getting foles weapons and another yr. what was thought to be qb draft is turning into lb/wr draft. i’d get 2 top tier WRs in rds 1-3 and olb in 1st or 2nd, i’ll bet 1 good one falls to eagles range in 2nd. right now 6 are slated for top 35 picks, that is alot. my dream is mike evans in 1st, but also love donte moncreif in 3rd or beckham lsu in 2nd, heck take laundry from there in 3rd too. kelly cant see avant as his long term slot, and right now chalking cooper up to system. hey, which is great, long as kelly’s here, we have the system. think this draft falls right for Eagles, most impact wr/olb never hit free agency, they need to be drafted. TE, maybe Loyria, have to work around the white stuff, but in 5th, he’d look good to replace celek. main free agency pickup is impact safety, young vet, like everyone else Byrd seems logical. still plenty of picks and money to get cbs, never argue at depth at line, find another fletcher, basically build depth.

  135. 135 ICDogg said at 6:58 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think the Eagles should stick to whatever draft strategy they’ve been using the last two years, since it seems to be giving us players that we can use.

    As far as QB’s, I’m intrigued with the kid from Ohio State if he chooses to enter the draft.

  136. 136 anon said at 7:23 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I think we can do better. We have a lot of D. players are OK (considering our D is ok) the O players we’ve gotten are “OK” as well but no one that i’d consider irreplaceable.

  137. 137 Baloophi said at 3:18 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    RE: Cooper Contract

    I believe Anders first suggested that it will cost $6 million a year to keep him. Without questioning his number crunching, I am curious how he landed on that figure (simply because I don’t track FA WR contracts…)

    Anyway, whatever number seems accurate for Cooper’s on-field performance, I believe we then have to literally account for his deplorable racist outburst.

    1) Other teams are likely to be wary of adding Cooper to their locker room, meaning potentially fewer suitors. Either they won’t want to have to deal with the media attention or are legitimately concerned about team chemistry, or both, but this is the equivalent of a big red flag for a player entering the draft. While it seems to have dissipated as an issue (at least for the media), I think it’ll definitely resurface during free agency.

    2) Cooper will have a strong incentive to take a home-town discount and stay with the Eagles, for two reasons:
    A) Loyalty to Kelly/Lurie for not simply cutting him (which would have been the easier move), and, perhaps more importantly…
    B) He’s unlikely to want to “prove” himself to a whole new locker room. Just as other teams wouldn’t look forward to revisiting the entire incident, Cooper is even less likely to want to go back there.

    Lastly, it’s “funny” (in a terrible way) that this will be an issue when guys guilty of domestic violence, gun charges, assault, DUI’s, etc., haven’t necessarily had to atone for those mistakes in the free agent market. I say that not to lessen the import of racism, but more to highlight the “acceptability” of other transgressions.

  138. 138 ACViking said at 3:29 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    B —

    What’s your take on the *public* expressions of support by the African-American players in the Miami locker room for Incognito — despite his racially-disparaging comments?

    Cooper’s comments caused (and still causes) a problem for some of the Eagles’ players. But Incognito seems bullet proof in Miami?

    What do you think? Is it a difference in the locker rooms? Or the context? Or something else?

  139. 139 Neil said at 3:41 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Incognito spoke in a way that’s acceptable to people his age. To people from that walk of life, especially below 30, that word almost always has neutral to positive feelings associated with it. It’s only a problem when it’s used by a guy who is or acts like an outsider, especially to disparage you or your group, ie, exactly how Cooper used it.

  140. 140 Stormbringer said at 3:43 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Agreed on that.

    I still think it best to just not use that word at all though.

  141. 141 Neil said at 3:48 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    If you don’t feel absolutely 100% comfortable using it, you know you shouldn’t. The usage of that word’s basically a sign of group solidarity among a few cultural groups (not all black), and it’s a sure sign you aren’t one of them if you feel that way.

  142. 142 Stormbringer said at 3:50 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I don’t use it ever. But if no one else uses it either then it can’t be misunderstood by someone.

  143. 143 Neil said at 3:52 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    That’s true, but among the people who use it…it’s hard to describe. It’s who they are. In their cliques it is a sign that you are one of us, and if you acted like the word is offensive among us, then you are most certainly not one of us.

  144. 144 ACViking said at 3:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Shannon Sharpe, who retired 10 years ago, expressed the opposite view on the CBS pre-game show yesterday.

    He’s been retired for 10 years.

    Have things changed that much in NFL locker rooms vis-a-vis Sharpe’s view?

  145. 145 Neil said at 4:03 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    My guess as to what’s going on there is that Sharpe has assimilated to the culture of corporate, highbrow america so as to fit in among his new coworkers in broadcasting. If you broadcast too brashly the thinking, the ways of relating of the (really can’t think of a better word here) “underculture” in an inappropriate context, you will get gutted like a fish by the media like Incognito has for being “insensitive” or “racist”. Being a tv personality is definitely one of those contexts.

  146. 146 Michael Winter Cho said at 9:24 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Unless you’re Steven A Smith. But he’s already filled that niche.

  147. 147 A_T_G said at 4:15 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Well said, and the reason the word offends me no matter who says it. It is a divisive word. Your description is the very definition of such.

    No matter who says it, it is done so with the intent of dividing “us” from “them,” and therefore counter to what we should be striving to achieve.

  148. 148 Neil said at 6:04 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    When you’re living a life where your best career prospects are the NFL, SSDI and the black market, you need to know who your people are. You need to be able to say just the nastiest things to them so you know they aren’t going to be a liability when you and your boys are about to get your faces broken.

    Getting offended isn’t going to help. Neither is burning some guy who happens to be white, but of the exact same origins as the rest, at the stake.

  149. 149 A_T_G said at 8:21 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    From my limited knowledge of his history, I believe the SS in Riley’s life was more likely a silver spoon than a Social Security check, but, regardless, I think stake-burning, real or figurative, may also fall under the divisive category.

    Getting offended will help. If enough people, from every segment, got offended and realized that rationalizing behaviors like this perpetuates the conditions that you decry, things would change. That is how slavery ended, that is how segregation ended, that is why women can vote, and that is how we take the next step forward.

    Wow, that feels a little heavy for this forum… um, how ’bout Henry’s miss?

  150. 150 Neil said at 6:09 AM on November 12th, 2013:

    I didn’t mean Riley. I don’t have an explanation for that. Stake burning definitely does. From my perspective, I see two victims, but one has been mercilessly, relentlessly attacked and defamed for being a team guy in his bizarre, unsophisticated, uncouth, offensive way, while the other had walled himself into a psychic cocoon and avoided communciating his problems with the people around him until they blew up. I spent most of my time growing up as Johnathon Martin. As soon as I stopped being self-absorbed and learned how to communicate my feelings and needs in a direct, manly fashion, all of my problems vanished.

    I see what you mean with those examples, but to me there were also wars and protests there brought on by the feelings. I hope I’m wrong, but I feel like people nowadays have replaced doing something with feeling those feelings. And I also feel like those feelings have begun functioning as a defense against the realisation that a bunch of these onlookers are Johnathon Martin in their own lives.

    Yep. I feel like I should take the heat for that. I was holding onto a perspective that was burning for expression.

  151. 151 ACViking said at 3:43 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Hmm. Interesting.

    I’d love to hear someone inside the ‘Phins locker room say that — even as a “source.”

    And I’d like to hear someone in the Eagles’ locker room draw the same contrast. As a source is fine.

  152. 152 Tom33 said at 3:47 PM on November 11th, 2013:

  153. 153 Baloophi said at 3:48 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Hmm… great question. I think context is king, here. Which also relates to locker room atmosphere.

    With Incognito, you’ve got a veteran player who had been in place for three and a half seasons. Importantly, he had been there for two years before Philbin came in as coach, and I suspect Incognito’s “culture” trumped Philbin’s. That’s based on nothing more than the “laid-back” nature Philbin seemed to exhibit on “Hard Knocks.”

    Within that context, I can see how – for lack of a better phrase – the “culture of fear” that Incognito had installed, instilled an odd, almost bonding effect for his teammates, and why they would be more willing to support Incognito.

    Also, I will say, it’s much easier for players to condemn a teammate for racial outbursts levied at an outsider versus another teammate. In some sense, what’s going on in Miami is a reluctance to air dirty laundry about the inner workings of the team… which is why people are calcifying on the inside. Legitimately or not, Incognito’s supporters on the team believe Martin broke a “code” by talking about what goes on inside the locker room, which helps partly explain why there’s such a different reaction.

  154. 154 Neil said at 3:55 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I really think every NFL lockerroom falls into the cultural category I’m trying to describe here. I genuinely believe nobody but Martin had a problem with the way everyone talked, and I think the biggest reason Martin couldn’t handle it was because he, for whatever reason, did not assimilate into the culture of the lockerroom. He seemed to always feel like an outsider; even though he put up such a good act as an insider.

  155. 155 livingonapear said at 4:07 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    That’s a pretty dead on assessment. I’ve used the phrase “misplaced priorities” and I think what you said here is on the same wavelength.

  156. 156 Mac said at 3:41 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    I really enjoyed seeing Barwin bat another pass this week. How long have we Eagles fans been tormented by batted passes? Man, it feels good to be on the other end of that stick.

  157. 157 ACViking said at 3:48 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Nice point.

    Foles has had a couple-three, maybe.

    But it seems like he’s not had nearly the number of batted balls as other Eagles’ QBs the past 3 years.

  158. 158 BobSmith77 said at 4:43 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Tommy – Can you go back and look to see if the Eagles played more 2-TE sets this week than they have in previous weeks? It sure seems like they did especially in the 2nd half this week.

  159. 159 BobSmith77 said at 4:49 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    No love for the vets on defense who really carried them yesterday including a great game from Ryans including that a fabulous play to grab the INT on the deflection and yet another really solid game from Cole and Barwin.

    I’m worried thought that this defense’s lack of depth is going to get exposed if Kendricks and Fletcher continue to miss more time though.

    It is a unit that is getting some timely stops and forcing their share of turnovers but one that teams can move the ball against. If Rodgers had been healthy yesterday, I have a feeling the Packers would have torched the Eagles and put up 34-38 pts.

  160. 160 anon said at 5:10 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    cary williams was getting exposed all day.

  161. 161 BobSmith77 said at 5:11 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    That’s one guy.

  162. 162 Joseph Dubyk said at 5:53 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Get exposed? It’s not like ths defense is a great defense yet or even good. It still gave up 350+ yards with GB’s jock strap washer at the helm. lol.

    It’s getting better but it still needs some pieces.

  163. 163 theycallmerob said at 6:21 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Can’t love him, can’t hate him.
    That should be his wikipedia entry. One line says it all

  164. 164 Joseph Dubyk said at 7:15 PM on November 11th, 2013:

    Going to be interesting to see what we do with Maclin next year… His game is built on speed. He’s not much of a threat in the red zone… Do you give him a one yer prove it deal? I don’t see a multi year deal in the cards.