Dee Ford

Posted: February 18th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 67 Comments »

Mike Mayock held a conference call today and discussed a variety of players and teams. Here is something he said in regard to the Eagles.

Mayock brought up Auburn defensive end Dee Ford on multiple occasions on the conference call as a potential impact pass rusher at the next level and finds him to be a potential fit with the Philadelphia Eagles. “He doesn’t have as much length as you might like,” Mayock said. “He’s a guy with some real edge burst, and a guy who can fit what the Eagles do.”

We’ve talked a bit about Dee Ford, but he’s worth discussing again. Could he be a target at 22?

Ford is 6021, 243. That means he is 6-2 1/8 and 243 pounds. Chip Kelly would prefer a bigger pass rusher, but that size might be acceptable for the rush linebacker. Ford would generally play on the right side and there are plenty of guys in the 6-2, 250 range who have been successful in that spot. Trent Cole currently has the job and goes about 6-2, 260.

Ford has 10-inch hands. Those are big. Compare that to Marcus Smith who is 6-4. His hands are 9 5/8. Hand size can matter in football. Pass rushers want to get their hands on blockers and either drive them back or get them going in a particular direction. Just imagine putting your hand in someone’s chest and trying to push them. The bigger the hand, the easier it is to get force in the push.

Ford has pretty good arm length (32 3/4). That helps him make up for the lack of height because he’s able to get those big hands on the blocker quicker. He wants to be able to extend his arms and keep the blocker off him. The shorter the arms, the closer the rusher has to get to the blocker and that puts the defensive player at a disadvantage.

So while Ford lacks ideal height, his big hands and pretty long arms help him to make up for some of that.

Let’s check out Ford as a pass rusher.

You can see that he is a versatile pass rusher. Ford rushes from out wide, lined up directly over the OT or sometimes even standing up. He isn’t a guy that must do the same thing over and over. Beyond how/where he lines up, Ford is versatile with his mode of attack. He uses a quick burst and speed rush as his base move. He also will bull rush at times. This is where Ford can be so crazy to watch on some plays. Even though he is just 243 pounds, Ford will get his hand in the chest of a blocker and move him backward. That is tremendous strength.

One of the things I like most about Ford is that he can play under control. Some speed rushers fly off the ball at 100 mph on every play. Ford does that on some plays, but there are others when he’ll adjust his path to the QB or he’ll read a run play and go for the RB. Trent Cole does a good job of this and it helps him be a good run defender.

Ford has a really good shoulder dip that makes his speed rush effective. He’s able to get under the pads of the blocker. Ford also flattens out well when he turns the corner. That makes getting to the QB easier. Rushers who round their path are easier to block. The OT can just ride then wide and deep. Rushers that flatten out well are able to get by the blocker and then behind him. Those guys get to the QB more often.

Oddly, I didn’t see teams run at Ford as much as I expected. It used to be common to run at speed rushers. Make them battle blockers and wear them down. Ford did a solid job as a run defender. He didn’t get washed out as much as I expected.

Ford was a 2-year starter for Auburn. He was projected to start in 2011, but suffered a back injury. Ford had 6 sacks in 2012 and 10.5 this past season.

One concern I have is that Ford played mostly LDE for Auburn. The Eagles would want him on the right side. The difference is that he would be going up against LTs and they are the best blockers for most O-lines. Ford certainly has the explosive ability to beat LTs. He just hasn’t shown that he can do it consistently in college. You would be making a total projection with him in the NFL…from DE to LB and from the left side to the right side. How does that affect his value?

I think Ford will go in the 20 to 40 range. Will the Eagles have significant interest? I really don’t know. Chip Kelly was at the Senior Bowl. He saw how dominant Ford was. At the same time, Kelly does prefer big guys. We haven’t seen enough personnel decisions to know how Kelly will read this situation. It certainly won’t shock me if Kelly and the Eagles go for Ford. The team didn’t pressure the passer enough in 2013. I don’t think the Eagles can ignore a pass rusher as gifted and productive as Ford just because he lacks their ideal build.

 

More Ford videos.

_


  • zbone95

    Tommy. if Anthony Barr falls to 13-16 range, do you think it is worth it for the eagles to trade up for him? He started as an OLB for only 2 years and did so much. His potential could be amazing considering how much he did based on pure raw ability. He has the measurables that chip prefers.

    • Adam

      Not ruling anything out but I don’t think we’re in a position to trade up. Too many holes in the roster, lack of depth. With the amount of depth in this class, I think the Eagles will hold their ground and keep the picks.

      • Patrick

        I disagree. I think Clowney, Barr and Mack are terrific players, but there is a real chance that one of them will slide due to the usual run on QBs, OTs and Sammy Watkins + the 3 pass rushers, which might mean that one of them ends up outside of the top 10. In that case, i strongly believe we should consider a trade. Not only is it a prime position where we have a need, but i also think the whole plenty of needs is overrated. If we resign Mac and Coop, our offense is pretty much good. Sure, it wouldn’t hurt to get some weapons or some OL depth/future, but still. I understand that going into the season with our DBs being the resigned Nate Allen, Wolff, Fletch and Williams aren’t exiting, but they are all serviceable players. Going into the season with the same DL and Ryans, Kendricks and Barwin are OK too.
        Getting a pass rusher, a true pass rusher, is my number 1 priority on defense. No players will impact the game more and we don’t have one. If we potentially get a stud, by trading up because other teams reach for QBs, I wouldnt hesitate a second. Kony Ealy i wouldn’t make the move to get, but Mack and Barr, aint even a question.

        • GEAGLE

          I’m expecting Barr to be this years LATULULIE??a player that can go Top 8, but who will fall to the 15-20 range…..Barr,Mack or Evans are prob the only players I would trade up for, but I’m hoping Carr falls, and we can trade out of round 1 all together….need two extra picks between rounds 2-5…

        • Adam

          We’re not close to being one piece away from being a top contender. We’re one injury away at many key positions from a complete disaster. Your line of thinking is much to short sighted and just spells trouble. You have one of the deepest drafts in NFL history and a team that has holes everywhere. Hoard picks.

          We lost one starting safety, CB, WR, ILB, or DT and we’ve got next to nothing to step in. The starters might be good (for now) but our cupboards are near empty.

    • Anders

      I think he needs to fall past the Titans and their new 3-4 scheme, I only really see Baltimore and Arizona in front of us who would take him (I do not see a 4-3 taking him).
      Steelers took Jones last year and have more needs in the secondary or DL.
      Ravens could take him, but I think they will lean more towards offense to help Flacco
      Jets could take him, but they have zero offensive weapons
      Arizona can go many ways. They only really need a young OLB on defense, but are more likely QB (Carr) or OL here

      • GEAGLE

        If he falls to Miami, I would trade up two spots to secure him. GB scares me, they need defensive speed BAD

    • Weapon Y

      I’m very unimpressed with Barr. I saw him getting pancaked by tight ends. That’s weak. The Eagles need to stay away from him.

  • mksp

    Dee checks out as a football player.

    But I bet analytic guy in the F.O. calculates that his measurables make him an extremely risky pick in the 1st round.

    My current 3-round mock:

    1) Kyle Fuller
    2) Christian Jones
    3) Dion Bailey

    I think Fuller ends up going late 1st / high 2nd – Mayock likes him a lot as well, FWIW. Again, it’d be ideal to trade back a bit and pick up an extra 3rd or so.

    Like Jones a lot, Eagles have met with him, seems like a target, measurable and production wise.

    • D3FB

      Fuller should be considered the top corner in this class. The other top guys all have pretty big issues that will need to be worked out. Dennard is way too physical and grabby with receivers down the field. Verrett is short and only 176 lbs and despite a general willingness to play the run game gets pushed around due to size. Gilbert is a better athlete than football player, he has little interest in the run game and does not get off blocks and is probably a below average tackler.

      The big knock on Fuller is he wasn’t healthy this year. However this was the first time in his career he missed time due to injury. He’s got great cover skills, and is a weapon in the run game.

      http://draftbreakdown.com/video/kyle-fuller-vs-alabama-2013/

      • GEAGLE

        I’d rather get T Mitchell if he falls to the Boykin zone (round 4)
        ..
        Tall, long, athletic,physical.
        Built like Cary and Brad
        Loves to play press, come up and tackle
        38 games experience, got tested all year with team avoiding throwng at OLOMU…I don’t know how I feel about mItchell in round3, because I expect some awesome WR to be on the board in round 3, but getting him in the 4th would be awesome.

        Hopefully he has a terrible combine. Chip doesn’t need to see him perform to know what type of player he is…

        I like Fullet, I just think I will like other prospects more where fuller gets drafted

    • Anders

      I wouldnt mind this top 3 at all. Tho I still prefer another 3rd or even late 2nd to grap a pass rusher like Marcus Smith

      • GEAGLE

        You are high on Marcus too? I love that kid, I think he would be perfect!

  • SleepingDuck

    What do you guys think of Kony Ealy? He seems to not get as much press compared to the guys (Barr, Mack, Ford)

    • Anders

      He is projected top 15 and is the 2nd best 4-3 DE after Clowney.

      • GEAGLE

        Yeah I doubt he gets passed the Titans

    • Tom W

      Watched a few games of his over the weekend … I think his measurables are great but he is more so strong rather than athletic. I didn’t see an initial great burst of the line when rushing the qb but his bullrush was good. He also wasn’t that productive in college and would be more of a projection. He isn’t aldon smith. But supposedly some nfl teams are high on him. Josh Norris – former scout on rotoworld – is not. Looks to me to be more of a 4-3 d end and less of an 3-4 olb because I don’t think he is athletic/agile enough

    • Jerry Pomroy

      I was watching him just last night. He didn’t jump out at me. Not much burst of the snap, kinda meanders his way to the QB, if that makes sense. One thing that I noticed is that he seems to let others do the work once a sack or TFL are not gonna happen. Almost like he’s taking off plays. He’s not a guy that’s gonna go 100%, 100% of the time to make the play. He’s a 4-3 end that seems content just creating push up field. As others mentioned already, he’s more braun than a speedy athlete.

  • Baloophi

    Just for fun – nobody panic! – here’s a couple of recent Fanspeak mocks I did where I took Mr. Ford at 22. After doing an embarrassingly high number of these and saving them (why???), I thought I would share my “Ford First” scenarios with the community. FWIW, I have drafts with a different 1st round pick I like a lot better.

    (My addled commentary follows each…)

    22: DEE FORD – OLB – AUBURN
    54: ALLEN ROBINSON – WR – PENN STATE
    86: JARVIS LANDRY – WR – LSU
    118: PIERRE DESIR – CB – LINDENWOOD
    150: CROCKETT GILMORE – TE – COLORADO STATE
    157: JOSH MAURO – DE – STANFORD
    214: JALEN SAUNDERS – WR – OKLAHOMA

    Oof. I certainly didn’t intend to take 3 WR’s (should’ve taken OT Justin Britt in the 7th). Desir is also not my CB of choice but “need” reared it’s ugly head at that point. Stupid need. Also of note, no safety – our pick kept being in no man’s land where it was either too much of a reach to take a guy (eg. Jimmie Ward in the 2nd) or there was too much talent elsewhere sitting there (eg. Landry in the 3rd).

    ******

    22: DEE FORD – OLB – AUBURN
    54: JORDAN MATTHEWS – WR – VANDERBILT
    86: CHRISTIAN JONES – ILB – FLORIDA STATE
    118: KEITH MCGILL – CB – UTAH
    150: DEANDRE COLEMAN – DT – CALIFORNIA
    157: TRE BOSTON – S – UNC
    214: JUSTIN BRITT – OT – MISSOURI

    Once again a safety issue. The Packers kicked us in the nuts by taking Jimmie Ward at 85, but Christian Jones is a nice consolation prize. Then, Detroit took Dion Bailey 10 picks before our 4th round pick, so I went with the big CB… who is probably more of a project than we’d like.

    ********

    22: DEE FORD – OLB – AUBURN
    54: ODELL BECKHAM JR. – WR – LSU
    86: JIMMIE WARD – S – NORTHERN ILLINOIS
    118: DION BAILEY – S – USC
    150: DE’ANTHONY THOMAS – RB – OREGON
    157: JOSH MAURO – DE – STANFORD
    214: AARON COLVIN – ACL – OKLAHOMA

    Weird draft that wound up being “big” name guys. I could’ve taken Stephen Tuitt at 54 but decided to go OBJR because you have to pick someone. I didn’t intend to double up on safeties in 3 and 4 but Bailey was the best talent available in rd. 4 (without trades). I do wonder if Ward can hybrid to CB at all, but that’s now the fake coach’s problem. Round 5 fell apart a little bit for me… I wanted a pocket-pusher but there was a run of interior giants before our pick and it was basically giant DE project (Urban) or DAT – a luxury speed. I went with speed. Then took a “safe” DE pick with Mauro… who I really like for us even though it’s not a sexy pick. I took Colvin in the 7th because I learned nothing from Ikegwuonu.

    • Baloophi

      Here are two non-Ford drafts I liked. Keep in mind things had to fall in place… especially with Attaochu… I doubt he makes it to 54.

      Also, before you commence evisceration, try it out a couple times – the Fanspeak engine isn’t perfect but it should prevent you from generating a mock where you draft 6 guys with second round talent, AND you get to you experience the “need vs. bpa” dilemma firsthand.

      22: CALVIN PRYOR – S – LOUISVILLE
      54: JEREMIAH ATTAOCHU – OLB – GEORGIA TECH
      86: JIMMIE WARD – S – NORTHERN ILLINOIS
      118; YAWIN SMALLWOOD – ILB – UCONN
      150: DEANDRE COLEMAN – DT – CALIFORNIA
      157: JOSH MAURO – DE – STANFORD
      214: JUSTIN BRITT – OT – MIZZOU

      22: DARQUEZE DENNARD – CB – MICHIGAN STATE
      54: RA’SHEDE HAGEMAN – DT – MINNESOTA
      86: MARCUS SMITH – DE/OLB – LOUISVILLE
      118: JIMMY GAROPPOLO – QB – ROMO STATE
      150: AUTO-LOCK MAURO – DE – STANFORD
      157: CROCKETT GILMORE – TE – COLORADO STATE
      214: JALEN SAUNDERS – WR – OKLAHOMA STATE

      NOTE: I didn’t like making the Garoppolo pick but from a talent and positional standpoint I couldn’t pass him up.

      • the midatlantic

        “118: JIMMY GAROPPOLO – QB – ROMO STATE”
        ^zing!

      • Arby1

        Anyone named “Smallwood” just does not meet the measureables standards this team has set.
        (heh-heh) (snicker snicker)

        • Baloophi

          Must have been a couple of pranksters working the Ellis Island books that day…

      • deg0ey

        Haha I just did one of these that was very much a ‘things falling in place’ effort, but damn I’d be stoked if it happened:

        22: Jeremiah Attaochu – OLB – Georgia Tech
        54: Bradley Roby – CB – Ohio State
        86: Billy Turner – OT – North Dakota State
        118: Josh Huff – WR – Oregon
        150: Brent Urban – DE – Virginia
        157: Tre Boston – S – North Carolina
        214: Dri Archer – RB – Kent State

        http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/draft.php?d=czwtoq

    • Anders

      I love the last one

    • A_T_G

      It is interesting how much things falling the right way or wrong way can make a difference. It makes you wonder how much our perceptions of GMs is influenced by luck.

      • Baloophi

        Very true… Though the inability to trade sort of removes much of the “skill” element… Then I really would have messed things up!

        I think the lessons learned (for me) are to generate a small list of guys and then just make sure you get them. I didn’t care for Jaiquawn Jarrett in the second but I sort of understand the logic… I think that was obviously too extreme but maybe Bennie Logan is a better example? Perhaps you take a guy a half round too early but you get who you want…

    • Mitchell

      Pretty big fan of Tre Boston myself. I was disappointed when he only measure in at 5’11″ though. The thing is, he makes plays and I want him.

      • GEAGLE

        What round do you see him at? I just started watching him this week and I’m struggling with him…curious to hear some thoughts

        • Mitchell

          I don’t really know either. I don’t even know where the experts are putting him. I’ve seen him from the 4th to UDFA. I like him because he is a playmaker and has the versatility to play both safety and corner. He had 5 ints, 8 PD’s, this year and has a bit of pop on his tackles.

          He was originally listed at 6’1. I liked him even more then but I still think he is a good pick in the 5th with a definite chance to play. If not a better backup then the guys we have now at safety.

  • Cafone

    Someone explain to me why they would put Ford over someone already on the roster: Vinny Curry. (other than the issue that the Eagles currently have Curry playing out of position)

    It seems to me the biggest issue with Ford is his size, and Curry doesn’t have that issue: he was 6’3″, 266 at the combine. Yeah, he’s gained weight with the push to play him out of position at 3-4 DE, but he could lose it.

    • Andy124

      I’ll regurgitate what’s I’ve read here any number of times: He doesn’t have the agility to play OLB. Can’t cover. Isn’t necessarily a great edge rusher. Most of his success this year came as an interior rusher iirc.

      • Cafone

        I’ve also seen that stated about Curry’s supposed lack of coverage ability, but in this specific comparison is it valid? Ford played DE and we have absolutely no idea if he would have any coverage ability. “Maybe he will learn to cover better than the guy we already have” is not something I’d be willing to risk a 1st round pick on.

        • D3FB

          Ford has better athleticism and burst off the line. Both these help him project as an OLB better than Curry does.

  • Pingback: Draft Notes | The Scouts Notebook

  • GEAGLE

    I like Dee Ford, but I LOVE Marcus smith and KVN…

    Hoping we trade 22 for the Niners two 2nd round picks. They could adress their WR problems in round 1 and replace Whitner with a first round safety the way they did last year with Reid replacing Goldson..we would have 3 second round picks, we could use on something like KVN,Marcus smith and Buchanon. Still be able to get som high quality WR in round 3

    Hopefully we would trade back with one of our 2nd round picks and get an extra late 3rd…

    I’d be ok with Dee Ford, but I think Marcus Smith is Perfect for us…

    • Jerry Pomroy

      I think G & I are on the same bandwagon. I love both those guys. Smith is listed as a DE, but he looks every bit the part of a rush LB in the 3-4. He can flushed out wide on run plays, but when he gets to the QB he’s got a knack for the strip sack. If you haven’t already read my comments, KVN is my favorite player in the draft. Give me either one (or in G’s world, both) and the draft is a success for me.

      • GEAGLE

        Yes sir.. KVN is obvious, and he will dazzle Chip in the interviews. To get a guy that can play outside, while also being able to replace Meco down the line is such a score. Basically KVN is what we wish Casey Mathews was. I also think KVN will be next years Kiko, that LB who is NFL ready from game one..a blend of Barwin and Vrabel, really hope we find a way to get ATleast one of the two…..I think Marcus is ready to explode. Never playing defense til he got to College, he became a terrorist this year when he got comfortable..I think the combine and pro day will show him excel in LB drills….after 14yr Linebacking drought, I’m ready to go LB crazy…can’t wait til Monday when the LBs and DE are up at the combine

  • GEAGLE

    Anyone familiar with DL from the Bills Alex Carrington?

    People over react to our Nickle getting run over by the saints, but truth of the matter is that our young DL was really really good against the run all year. Our base was better then people realize, it’s just all the good work they did on first and second down got wiped away with our inability to get off the field on 3rd…so while people are expecting us to sign run stuffers, I think the complete opposite.

    I think we will focus on improving our ability to get off the field on 3rd, and I can see Logan and Ced going to the bench with Carrington playing next to Cox on the 4man Nickle line. Carrington missed a lot of the year with a torn pec, but he was a really efficient interior pass rusher in 2012. 26years old, isn’t going to cost much, 6’5 308lbs…this is a quality addition to a Dline rotation and it fits the batting average mold,,,

    People can wish for Linval, or Soliali, or Raji, but I can assure you we won’t be adding an 8mil per year player to our rotation. We are not adding an expensive piece to our line, but I think a kid like Carrington could be a very real target for us

  • Weapon Y

    I’m thinking more and more that the Eagles go safety in the first round. They have only guy on the roster (Wolff) who is realistically going to be back next year. That’s three vacancies that need to be filled. I’m really liking Calvin Pryor and Lamarcus Joyner. Also Deone Bucannon in the second or third round. Then again, I love Kyle Van Noy at either OLB or ILB. I’m way more excited by the depth of this year’s draft than last year’s.

    • Cafone

      We’ll know if you are right about returning safeties before the draft, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see both Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman back. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see the Eagles sign a new FA safety, even though the pickings are slim.

    • Jerry Pomroy

      I just can’t see them going into the draft with just Wolff. That would be irresponsible and wreckless. I think they’ll re-sign one maybe two of our own & then add another in FA, then look to add one in the draft as well but not force it.

  • eagleyankfan

    Ford — I’d guess the wrist and joint measurements will tell if he’s someone who can grow in the guy Chip is looking for on defense. I don’t want a project at 22. From purely a fan perspective — I want someone who can play right away and eventually(in a year or 2) can be a difference maker. I want someone we can get excited about. A project isn’t someone I’m excited about….
    (just a note — I don’t watch enough college to engage in the conversations but love reading about players. Keep em coming)

    • GEAGLE

      Draft picks aren’t measured by what they do as rookies…you can’t tell me that if a supreme talent like Anthony Barr falls to 22 that you wouldn’t want him because he won’t be ready to be a 3down OLB as a rookie…..

      • Jerry Pomroy

        I think what he’s saying is that he wants to see someone that plays, contributes and shows glimpses of stardom to come in his rookie campaign.

  • BreakinAnklez

    Tommy (or anyone else for that matter),

    To me, except for the last drive where A&M was in comeback mode allowing Auburn to really pin ears back and attack passer, Ford looked like he got owned pretty handily. I did like his hustle, and he seemed to try everything he could think of, but he didn’t look to be impactin the play. What should I be lookin for in this video? With our first rounder, not sure I want someone who, to my beyond amateur eyes, was basically a complete non factor. Am I the only one who saw this? Is it more important that he showed ability vs impact on game?

    Not even concerned with stats, never touched Manziel until last drive.

    • eagleyankfan

      I stopped watching the video :)

  • CrackSammich

    There’s one free agent nobody seems to be talking about at all–This team will be lost if they don’t re-sign Kurt Coleman.

    I’m only mostly serious.

    • Crus57

      I’m not sure that no longer knowing who to point at when there’s a blown coverage counts as lost.

  • ACViking

    Re: Ford’s Position Coaches

    Dee Ford — who’s been at Auburn for 5 years — had 3 different D-line coaches. (Ford played in only 3 games in 2011 because of a back injury, and the NCAA granted him another year of eligibility.) All three assistant coaches have turned out some high draft picks and very good NFL players during their various stops on the college coaching carousel.

    Ford’s first two years at Auburn, where he played as a true freshman, were 2009-10. His D-line coach those years was former Auburn DT Tracy Rocker. Previously, Rocker coached at Old Miss in 2008. His most notable Auburn product was Nick Fairley. At Old Miss, Rocker helped develop DT Peria Jerry and DE Greg Hardy. From ’03-’07, Rocker coached the D-line at Arkansas — including former Falcon 1st Rd pick DE Jamaal Anderson. In 2002 Rocker coached at UCinn, where a 3rd Rd pick named Antwan Peek played for him.

    From 2011-12, Ford’s D-line coach was Mike Pelton, also an Auburn alum. During Pelton’s brief tenure at Auburn, none of his seniors or draft eligible players were selected. BUT . . . before coming to Auburn, Pelton coached the D-line for Troy University from 2001-06. His Troy U players included DeMarcus Ware and Osi Umenyiora. Prized pupils.

    In 2013, Ford’s last D-line coach at Auburn was Rodney Garner — who, surprise, is an Auburn alum, too. Garner coached the D-line for the University of Georgia from 1998-2012. His list of NFL players from UGA is very impressive: Richard Seymour; Marcus Stroud; David Pollack; Charles Grant; Johnathan Sullivan; Geno Atkins; Corvey Irvin; Jaruis Wynn; Kedric Golston; Robert Geathers; Charles Johnson; and (to some degree) Jarvis Jones.

    I’d love to be the proverbial fly on the wall when each of Ford’s former position coaches discuss him as a player and project him at the next level. Especially Garner.

    • Cafone

      It’s not really too surprising that SEC coaches that previously coached at SEC schools would have a number of former players in the NFL to point to. The wildcard there is Pelton who coached Ware and Osi at Troy.

      • ACViking

        Don’t disagree. Just saying that Ford’s had some good coaching.

        Compare his experience with, say, a former NFL DE named Graham. He didn’t get much help from the positional coach he had for two of his first three seasons.

    • D3FB

      One minor correction, Corey Lemonier was the DE opposite of Ford during the ’12 season and was selected in the third round by the 49ers to play OLB last year.

      • ACViking

        Damn. Forgot to write down Lemonier. Thanks.

  • CrackSammich

    It seems to me that a forward thinking GM could rack up a lot of quality picks by trading current picks for future picks as if they’re assets instead of people.

    1.If you find yourself with an extra first, trade it back every year for a first next year and a 2nd or 3rd this year, or more if you’re holding a pick that’s coveted. If I were the Rams or Browns, I’d be doing this with one of theirs. You basically bank an extra first to create an extra pick or two every year in interest.

    2. Or take an extra late round pick and keep trading it back a year until it’s worth something–A 5th this year for a 4th next year, a 6th and 7th for a 5th next year, etc. until you’ve got a 2017 1st or 2nd rounder.

    Any history of anyone trying to consistently game the system like this? In any league?

    • Cafone

      I’m all for gaming the system and increasing the quality/quantity of Eagles draft picks, but it seems to me the Eagles should be in “win now” mode. Yeah, the coach is only in his second year, and they are still rebuilding the team in with his vision in mind, but when you’ve got a running back of the quality of LeSean McCoy it seems to me that any year you aren’t trying to win it all is a year wasted.

      • CrackSammich

        Yeah, but the draft is like rolling a weighted die. There are no sure-thing picks, so in my examples above, if you trade a first this year to a a second + 1st next year, in this year, you’re more or less only trading back from 1st to 2nd. And in my second example, you’re losing a late round pick–Not exactly going to stop you from “winning now”.

    • ACViking

      In the five drafts from 2007-2011, Bill Belichick averaged 10 picks per year (2 w/12, 2 w/9, 1 w/7), routinely moving up and down the board to accumulate present and future picks. In hindsight, I think some have argued that his active approach — while fun for the folks on ESPN — didn’t prove all that productive.

      The past 2 drafts, on the other hand, New England’s ended up with 7 selections each year and did pretty well.

      Not sure if this answers your question. But generally speaking, Belichick’s been the most active player on draft day the past few seasons.

    • A_T_G

      I have been pushing for your first suggestion for a couple of years. You pay once, and collect for years to come.

      • Jerry Pomroy

        If we were in better position, it could make sense because you’re basically rolling over the pick for an extra pick each year. If I’m contemplating doing that, I’m lookin towards the crappy teams to hopefully get higher picks in that rd.

    • ICDogg

      Well, you might say the Rams are doing that the last couple of years…

  • Alastair Lucas

    Any thoughts on whether the Eagles could trade back in the 1st round and still acquire Dee Ford? Would love those extra draft picks in this ‘best draft for 10 years’ per Mike Mayock.

  • Vick or Nick

    I know its not Johnny Footballs highlight reel by any means, but man did he look overrated in that video.

    He had arguably the best O-line pass protection last year and this year.

    Lots of QBs can look good with that type of protection, yet somehow Manziel still hangs on to the football, running around looking for the big play.

    He will make his share of plays, and will be fun to watch. But he needs to be willing to change the way he plays to be successful in the NFL.

    I don’t get the Russel Wilson comparison either. IMO Wilson is a much better decision maker and more accurate on his throws. He may be more athletic as well. Wilson keeps a relatively low profile, Manziel loves the spotlight.

    Personally, If I am drafting top 5, top 10, I wouldn’t touch him. But this is the NFL and QBs are over drafted each year.

    • Media Mike

      Wilson >>>>>>>>>>> Manziel. Wilson has a keen football intellect, good internal clock, and understands passing (and always did) on an NFL level.

      Manziel is going to get terminated on a Sunday stroll by scary people on Baltimore, Cincy, and/or Pittsburgh.

      Wilson knows how to use his feet the right way, Manziel is just another scramble bum.

    • shah8

      It’s just hype.

      Effectively, for different reasons, Manziel can be considered either an impoverished man’s Vick (if only because of size, agility, play style, and nothing else) or a rich man’s Case Keenum.

      Of course, speaking from the standpoint that actual physical talent is foundational and everything, Manziel simply doesn’t have the arm. Yes, he can throw a deep ball, and throw other balls with moderate velocity. However, from my standpoint, he will never actually be able to defeat high quality defenses on any sort of consistent basis, simply because he can’t take yards from competent defense play. You actually have to have that zip. That’s the difference between Russell Wilson’s success and Matt Barkley’s red zone catastrophe. Both know how to see the field and throw into windows. So both can move the ball. However, when things get harder, the windows are smaller, and soft-balling, overconservatism, etc, etc, will not cut it. So Barkley hits the rocks and turns the ball over.

      In practice, there are only four potential NFL starting QBs in the upcoming draft:
      Bridgewater
      Blake Bortles
      Derek Carr
      Stephen Morris

      Bridgewater, no matter how much any analyst might blow smoke up your ass, is the only top of the first caliber QB. Bridgewater is effectively the same sort of talent as Sam Bradford and Aaron Rogers, not to say he’ll be as bad or as good.

      To think that Bortles is in Bridgewater’s class, is to make a category error. Bortles isn’t even as good a prospect as Tannehill or JP Losman. He’s more like a rich man’s Nick Foles, better arm, better legs, more able to win big games, but mostly is about that size, same as Foles (and I suppose Brock Osweiler and Logan Thomas at extremes). Is less refined than Foles as a passer, and is relatively erratic. You really shouldn’t even start a guy like that right away, and Bortles is definitely inferior to Geno Smith and EJ Manuel. If you still think Bortles, well, take a look at the college stats of people like Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, and other later first round picks, never mind Bridgewater’s stats. And Bridgewater’s tape has quite a few more…jaw-droppers…

      I like Derek Carr’s physical talents, but you know…moxie, what Manziel has, but Manuel doesn’t, is a big issue with Carr. He has a strong arm, but isn’t a good deep ball passer, either with lasers or rainbows. He’s a reasonably athletic QB, but doesn’t run much at all, and when challenged by defensive linemen, doesn’t tend to overcome problems at all.

      Stephen Morris has an NFL caliber arm, and is definitely capable of plenty of nice passes, has okay size. The point here is that Morris does have stretches of play where he’s relatively dominant as a high caliber QB. Struggled all year with an ankle issue. Might not go in the top 50 like all serious starting prospects, but don’t be surprised if you see him picked in the late second to early fourth. Depending on combine, pro days, interviews, of course.

      • anon

        The argument could go that the Texans could have been the seahawks with better QB play. Switch the Seahawks secondary with the Texans’ front 7 and i think you’re pretty close.

        Run first offense with RO principles, QB that can scramble and make players when necessary, not terrible. Unclear what O’Brian wants though, I don’t follow college ball.

        • shah8

          If you wanna hair-raising experience…check out the history of Cade Mcnown. An early media phenomenon similar to Manziel.

          If you’re as short as Cade or Tajh, you had better be goddamned otherworldly one way or another. Cade had that weak arm that the hypesters managed to smooth over.

          Not gunna fly. Any team picking him is picking him for marketing purchases–fill that stadium!, Sell those jerseys!