Eagles Notebook
Posted: February 19th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 71 Comments »Jimmy Bama took the time to put together a mock draft so it would be rude of me not to take the time to rip it. That’s the kind of friend I am.
Here is the link to his mock. Here are the picks:
1 – S/CB Lamarcus Joyner – Florida State
2 – WR Jarvis Landry – LSU
3 – ILB Jordan Zumwalt – UCLA
4 – DE Will Clarke – West Virginia
5 – TE Crockett Gilmore – Colorado State
5 – CB Aaron Colvin – Oklahoma
7 – QB Keith Prce – Washington
Clearly those are all bad picks. Here is what I would have done.
1 – Anyone but Lamarcus Joyner
2 – Anyone but Jarvis Landry
3 – Anyone but Jordan Zumwalt
4 – Anyone but Will Clarke
5 – Anyone but Crockett Gilmore
5 – Anyone but Aaron Colvin
7 – Anyone but Keith Price
My picks certainly make a lot more sense, right?
Jokes aside, I have mixed feelings on Jimmy’s picks. I love Joyner, but taking a tiny Safety at 22 doesn’t seem like good value. We need to see how big he is, but Joyner lists at 5-8, 190. Bob Sanders was “small”…at 5-8, 206. See the difference? Sanders was short, but did have a thick, strong build. Joyner has more of a CB build than Safety. Put on the game tape and you’ll be impressed, but taking him at 22 seems questionable.
Landry is a solid player. I can’t argue against him too much. I would prefer the Eagles go after Penn State star Allen Robinson. I think he would be a great fit for the Eagles. Zumwalt is a good player that I like. No major argument with him.
I don’t see Clarke as a likely Eagles target. Yes, he’s got great size. I’m sure Kelly, the scouts and Eagles coaches all love Clarke’s frame. But I see him as more of a 1-gap player. He loves to line up out wide and fly off the ball. That’s very different than lining head up on a blocker, reading plays and shedding blocks. I could be wrong and the Eagles could decide that Clarke’s length makes him a worthwhile project. I just have my doubts about him ever becoming a consistently good 2-gap player.
I have no problem with taking Gilmore in the 5th. He would be a good fit. And Colvin might be worth the risk in the 5th. He would sit out most, if not all, of 2014 and focus on getting healthy fo 2015.
Price looked like a star 2 years ago, but never built on his Sophomore season. He has the physicals gifts to start in the NFL. Price needs coaching and time to develop.
I’ll put together my own Eagles mock after the Combine. I’m figuring out a way to get Clowney, Watkins and Pryor. And then Lamarcus Joyner in the 4th round.
* * * * *
Reuben Frank wrote a piece about Chip Kelly taking a QB in the upcoming draft.
It’s easy to get the impression from Kelly that as much as he appreciates Foles’ ability, his search for a franchise quarterback is hardly over.
He insists constantly he’s not looking for a running quarterback, but the read option is obviously a big part of his offense. And the read option is more effective with a fast quarterback than a lumbering one like Foles, whose strength is in the pocket.
Ask Mike Smith about Matt Ryan, and he doesn’t talk about competition. Ask Ron Rivera about Cam Newton, and he doesn’t talk about competition. Ask Mike McCarthy about Aaron Rodgers, and he doesn’t talk about competition.
But ask Kelly about Foles, and that’s the first thing he mentions.
“There’s always competition, and I think you can ask Nick that, too,” Kelly said after the 2013 season ended. “If you also have a guy that’s not competing to be the starter with Nick, then what if Nick gets hurt and then all of a sudden the other guy goes, ‘Oh, my God, I’m not ready to play because I thought Nick was going to be the guy?’
“It’s a cliché, but you are a chin strap away from playing in this league and when your opportunity comes, you have to take advantage of that.
“One of the things we do here is we compete and we have a bunch of guys that compete. Obviously you’ve got to have one guy. Right now, Nick is that one guy, but I don’t think Nick has ever been afraid of competition. He showed me that the first time we had that.”
Roob raises an interesting point with his comments, but there are a couple of factors to consider. As much as we like Nick Foles, he’s never been the starter for a full season. Foles has shown enough to believe he’ll be good, but he’s never been the #1 QB for an entire year. As for comparing him to Ryan, Newton and Rodgers and their coaches…that’s tricky. Smith drafted Ryan. That’s his guy. Rivera drafted Newton. That’s his guy. And both players were Top 5 picks. McCarthy inherited Rodgers, but Aaron was a 1st round pick. And McCarthy got to work with him for 2 years before handing the job to Rodgers.
Kelly inherited Foles when he was a 3rd round pick coming off a 1-5 rookie season. Foles did play exceptionally well in 2013 and Kelly is excited about him, but you don’t just hand that guy the keys to the kingdom with no questions. QB is too important a position to do that. A strong season from Foles this year will change all that, but for now I have no problem with how Kelly is handling the situation.
* * * * *
I posted a few draft notes over at ScoutsNotebook.
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At the same time, you don’t just take away the keys to the kingdom no questions either. Foles hasn’t done anything to deserve getting benched, traded, or released. 20 teams in the NFL would die to have him on their team. It’s amazing how unappreciated he can be.
No one wants to bench him or get rid of him. The point is that before we throw everything behind him, we want to make sure he’s the real deal. At the end of 2015, the Eagles will have to make a financial commitment to him. That’s when they’ll go all in or not.
Nick has done a great job so far. But being a successful starter for a full season is still on his To Do list. Hopefully he scratches that off this year.
Tommy, I think one point everyone overlooks is that we don’t “need” Foles to be a franchise QB. What I mean is that when you look at Stafford, Ryan, Sanchez, Bradford, Smith, and any other high first round draft pick before the rookie salary limit was instituted, they all “needed” to be franchise QBs. If they were not, the team had so much money invested in them that it would hurt the team long term.
With Foles, if he doesn’t turn out to be a franchise type QB, we have minimally invested in him and it will be much easier to move on. On the flip side, Foles will surely not get the same opportunity if he flounders as the aforementioned QBs.
If Foles was drafted in the top five 4 years ago and was making a boatload of guaranteed money, I think most fans and media would be over the moon and emphatically declare that we have a franchise QB.
Let me preface this with the fact that I’m a huge Foles supporter (as my previous interactions with Shah8 can attest), but I’ve heard that argument a lot. It doesn’t really make sense to say he would be universally lauded now if he had been a first round pick, because the people still knocking him are doing so for the same reasons he wasn’t. He was available with the 85th pick – and some thought that was a bit of a reach at the time – because he lacks ideal arm strength or mobility. Otherwise, he likely would’ve been a top pick.
You’re missing my point. I’m not saying he deserved to be drafted in the first round, I merely saying that if he was drafted high several years ago and had a huge guaranteed contract, he would be viewed differently.
For example, if Sam Bradford was selected in the third round and was paid $600K per year, do you really think the Rams would have passed on RGIII with the mediocre play they received from Bradford? The Rams cannot draft a QB for competition since Bradford has a six-year, $78 million deal, which has $50 million of guarantees that he signed in 2010.
How about Sanchez, he signed a 2009 five-year, $50 million contract, with $28 million guaranteed. In 2012, the Jets extended him with a five-year, $58.25 million contract with $20.5 million in guarantees. They through money at him praying he was their savior and to try and keep his confidence up after poor play.
Foles signed a four-year, $2.769 million contract. I would think both Bradford and Sanchez would have had serious draft pick/free agent competition is they signed rookie deals anywhere near what Foles did. There is no chance in hell Sanchez would have gotten extended for that kind of money based on his play.
Hypothetically speaking, as for arm strength and mobility holding him back, if Sanchez, Tebow, or even AJ McCarron were the QB at Arizona instead of Foles, none of them would have been anywhere near the first round, let alone some of them may not have been drafted at all.
Bottom line though, I think he’ll do fine with or without more competition.
Wait, what? About that last…when Matt Scott subbed in for Foles after an injury in 2010, he did rather well. Moreover, Arizona had asked Foles to do some of the same passes he is now doing in Philly. I can see Tim Tebow doing pretty well in Arizona with the same selection of passes. And Mark Sanchez is flat out better as a pure passer, no question Sanzhez would have performed in Arizona.
lol, Tebow
Tebow can throw up jump balls to Criner too, you know. And he’d have been able to make a few of the standard stuff as well, even when not in Meyer’s system. Of course, on top of that, he’d have run all over Pac-12. A lot of Tebow’s stats was definitely derived from the fact that he had so much NFL talent on the team with him in Florida. However, he wasn’t chopped liver in NCAA football.
Unfortunately, a rookie QB we draft, isn’t going to be ready to push FOles next year anyway…and I don’t like this class of QBs…I’d almost rather see us trade a late round pick for Terrell Pryor and see what Chip can turn him into
I like Jarvis Landry very much in round 2. He can be excellent in the slot and good outside. He has one of the best hands. He has great YAC ability. He has good size 6’1 200 something. I think he would be a very good fit. Very versatile guy and hes only been playing in lsu for like 2 years so he has soo much potential.
I like Landry a lot, but I like Odell Beckham more, dude just reminds me of a young Randall Colb, and would be our best ST return man we have had in god know how long….but I certainly won’t be complaining if we were to add Landry
I like odj also but not sure he lasts to till our second pick. Jarvis has a good chance of being there
Also – Ryan has struggled enough that he should have competition. Mike SMith should take note. And hasn’t Rodgers already signed his 2nd deal? Anyone that is locks in a QB to a long term deal would be crazy to foster competition. And then Cam? He is the BEST PLAYER ON THAT TEAM – they have enough holes that they need to focus elsewhere (like we do).
Roob is just hanging on to the idiotic idea that Chip needs a runner, probably because he was one of the first morons to wave that flag at the start of the season – I am sorry, but that is simply poor analysis. If what Chip did with Foles in this offense does not prove he can adapt to a QBs skill set then nothing will ever convince you – but seriously Tommy – WHY ARE CARING WHAT ROOB EVER SAYS ABOUT ANYTHING?
That is to say – I read Tommy, Jimmy and browse some others, but the primary beat writers in philly are WHACK
Matt Ryan was never anyone other than what he is…a stronger armed Chad Pennington type with more of a nice deep ball (when done as a first read). He hasn’t really had an awful season statistically any more than RGIII has, and with both, they have good excuses for down seasons.
WRT Foles, it’s simply an understanding that Foles will have to grow a tremendous amount as a passer. He wasn’t asked to play a role in a demanding pass offense last year. He almost certainly will be asked to do so this year. It’s also understanding that Foles isn’t a good fit. Nothing can be done much about it, but Chip Kelly’s always going to have a rather adulterous mentality at some hot young thing…
I was wondering how long it would take for you to once again talk about how awefull Foles is and how he wasnt asked to do anything and that Geno Smith was a better QB.
Shah8 – What? “He wasn’t asked to play a role in a demanding pass offense last year. He almost certainly will be asked to do so this year.” Really? First of all, why do you assume that “certainly” Chip is going to go from a 60/40 run to pass ratio to a “demanding pass offense”? There is NO reason to believe that and NO evidence to support your claim. Second, Foles started 10 games – threw for almost 3000 yards, 27 TDs to 2 ints (as the world knows), 64 completion %, and the blessed 119 passer rating – top in the league. What are you trying to say again? Don’t go all ROOB on me Shah – back up what you are saying with some form of logic/evidence.
AND NOT AGOOD FIT FOR WHAT??? For the Read/option play Chip runs maybe twice a game? Come on man – that is NOT a major part of this offense, just a constraint play – as important as the bubble screen – Chip runs a RUNNING offense, with McCoy caring the load – and then Foles has clearly shown he can handle the passing side of what Chip wants to do. What more do you expect?
Wait – Shah8 – ARE YOU ROOB? Busted…
“He wasn’t asked to play a role in a demanding pass offense last year.” — Funny — I thought this offense was a run offense first that created the best(statistically) rb in the NFL. Why in the world would they turn to a “demanding” pass offense?
So they can move the ball and score when they want to, and not when lady luck sees fit to bless us.
It seems like Chip is the type who would put exactly as much effort into the running game if he had a prototypical, sublime QB. I’m not saying how the offense operates wouldn’t change at all, because if he had the sublime QB you can bet he would use him. But Chip does not seem like the type of coach who would accept producing so much as an OK run game. He wants a dangerous run game to go with whatever else the offense does. It’s never going to be a “passing offense”. He doesn’t want to rely on one facet no matter how good that facet is.
Mark, “we” care because this is an Eagles blog that offers new content every day. Do you think it’s easy to have a fresh new column ready every morning?
Plus, like it or not, what the published writers say is part of the Eagles universe.
I am not saying what Tommy does is easy AT ALL – he is my favorite Eagles writer and I have read everything he has written over the past – what – 5 years since he broke out on the PE message boards…You can go read the stupid crap ROOB writes if you want to – but reading him is supporting him. My only way to get him fired is to not pay ANY ATTENTION TO HIM. I want him gone, along with many of the other philly beats – and to be honest, I would love to see Tommy or Jimmy take his gig…wouldn’t you? So support him if you want – but to be clear, if you talk about him and read him you are helping him stay in his job…
Trust me, I didn’t click through.
Excellent – maybe we are on the same page more than we assume…I think you thought I was bashing Tommy with my comment – which I would never do, I was simply trying to end ROOBs career – one blog comment at a time…hehe
I posted this in the last thread after Baloophi’s love-in with the fanspeak mock draft game. I think it’s pretty unlikely as far as guys lasting to a particular round, but holy-wow it’d be awesome if it happened. What do y’all think?
22: Jeremiah Attaochu – OLB – Georgia Tech
54: Bradley Roby – CB – Ohio State
86: Billy Turner – OT – North Dakota State
118: Josh Huff – WR – Oregon
150: Brent Urban – DE – Virginia
157: Tre Boston – S – North Carolina
214: Dri Archer – RB – Kent State
Urban might go a bit earlier but none of the others really stand out as terrible value issues.
I’m not a big draft simulator fan as after the first 50 to 75 players you get player valuations that are all over the place. This one i just did was laughable. A top 15 player, a first rounder, and two second round talents.
22: C.J. Mosley – ILB – Alabama
54: Ra’Shede Hageman – DT – Minnesota
84: Marcus Smith – DE – Louisville
118: Jimmie Ward: S- Northern Illinois
150: Justin Britt – OT – Missouri
157: Cody Hoffman – WR – BYU
214: Bene Benwikere – CB – San Jose State
Haha awesome!
The one that stood out for me in the one I posted was Roby. I don’t see any way he’s on the board at 54 unless he punches someone at the Combine.
Ehhh I think he’s probably the 5th overall corner in a deeper draft, he’s may be gone but I wouldn’t consider it a huge possibility.
Fair enough – I agree he’s not the most pro-ready CB in the draft, but his ceiling is probably the highest of the lot of them. To be completely honest, I wouldn’t be complaining if we picked him at 22.
I’d be a bit miffed. But that’s the fun part about this time of year is everybody can watch the same film and have totally different opinions on players.
I would love that mock draft.
Me too – I think it might actually be achievable if you trade back from 22 and then use whatever picks you got to move up from 54; probably a little too ambitious though.
I think more realisticly without any trades are taking Roby at 22 and then Marcus Smith at 54.
I would love to have Attaochu and Roby tho, but really doubt it happens as both are most likely top 40 picks.
I had one going before it froze on me with Pryor at 22, Attaochu at 54, and Landry at 86…it was awesome while it lasted
22
TE
ERIC EBRON
UNC
54
CB
BRADLEY ROBY
OHIO STATE
86
DE
MARCUS SMITH
LOUISVILLE
118
S
DION BAILEY
USC
150
ILB
JORDAN ZUMWALT
UCLA
157
DT
DEANDRE COLEMAN
CALIFORNIA
214
CB
AARON COLVIN
OKLAHOMA
Got way more defensive than I anticipated, but I wouldnt mind a draft like that.
I really wanted another 3rd and 4th to add more offensive depth (a WR and a OL)
Ebron+Ertz would be a scary TE combo, I managed to add depth/starters for every part of the defense and got Colvin in the 7th and have him mend for a year. Then in 2015 the CBs will be Fletcher, Roby, Boykin and Colvin, with Baily and Wolff as safeties with Smith at OLB and Zumwalt hopefully taking over for Ryans.
You think TE in round 1 Anders? Interesting – I love Ebron and would welcome him with open arms, but I don’t think he lasts to 22 after the impact Graham, Gronk and Davis have had on the league – and there are a few other positions I would rather address…but I have not done enough homework to name players – after the combine I will have a much clearer picture of things – I hope Ebron is there at 22…what a TE lineup
[…] Eagles Notebook – Tommy Lawlor, Iggles BlitzJokes aside, I have mixed feelings on Jimmy’s picks. I love Joyner, but taking a tiny Safety at 22 doesn’t seem like good value. We need to see how big he is, but Joyner lists at 5-8, 190. Bob Sanders was “small”…at 5-8, 206. See the difference? Sanders was short, but did have a thick, strong build. Joyner has more of a CB build than Safety. Put on the game tape and you’ll be impressed, but taking him at 22 seems questionable. […]
What R Frank misses is — when one of their QB’s, without competition, goes down — cough – A. Rogers — and your non-competition back up goes in, the team sucks. Chip’s point of view is — why have such a down grade in talent because you don’t want to hurt the QB’s feelings and bring in competition. In Chip we trust…
To piggyback on what you are saying, Chip did the same thing at Oregon every year. I remember someone talking about how a starter wouldn’t be named until the first week of the season there.
I believe Darren Thomas declared early, despite being not much of an NFL prospect, because he saw the writing on the wall about Mariota. Keep in mind this is the QB that got them to the National Championship, so clearly Chip is more concerned about getting the best players on the field rather than keeping everybody feeling happy.
It actually wasn’t Mariotta he thought would win the job. Bryan Bennett was expected to be the guy in 2012. Mariotta beat him out because there was an open competition.
His QBs weren’t that good.
Tommy:
I just want to know where you saw Dion Baily listed at 6’2″. I like him quite a bit already but if he was 6’2″ he would definitely jump into the front running as my man crush for this year. (last year was T.J. McDonald)
IMO we can only draft Joyner if we were to go out and sign a top Tier safety who we can count on starting the next 3 years..we would have Wolff and said veteran starter, and then we could consider adding a piece like Joyner…but as of right now, the safety we have to draft will need to compete for a starting position, and I don’t like Joyner in that role…Joyner IMO is a specialty piece you add for match ups and sub packages, like adding a Dime defense to our arsenal…drafting Joyner at 22, means there would be a chance we start Joyner and Wolff. And I would hate that,,..I like the player a lot, I view Joyner as more of a luxury then a meat and potatoes addition of a defense, and our defense isn’t far enough along to be adding sub package players at 22..
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10487942/nfl-projected-raise-salary-cap-130-million
With restructures of Cole, Ryans and Williams along with cutting Avant, Casey and Chung and the Eagles will have 41 million in cap space.
Next year we can then gain another 20 mill cutting Cole, Ryans and Williams and the cap might even raise again next year+carry over and the Eagles are in perfect cap shape for the next couple of years even if we signing two big FAs this year.
wow.
Hard to take the predictions seriously when the premises are so far off.
what premises are off?
Restructure then cut? How does that work from a cap perspective & a player perspective (replacements + how do you get a guy with guaranteed $$ to restructure into a situation where he’s cuttable a year later, ie. little guaranteed or dead $$). Are you replacing all of these guys in the draft? If not, don’t you have to go to the market and factor in replacement value? These are the backbones of the defense. Hard to justify restructuring those guys when you have $24mm in cap space.
Avant, Chung and Casey are at least plausible “casualties”.
Restructures are an accounting trick. The player still get the same money, just in terms of a signing bonus instead of just base salary
Signing bonus just pro-rates the money (good for this year but increases dead in future years). So if you pay a signing bonus and then cut a year later doesn’t that defeat the purpose from a team perspective?
Not really. We did it with Cullen Jenkins in 13, he had just restructured in 12
USC’s Dion Bailey — he peeks into the back field WAAAAYYYYY to much. Nice int and nice size — how tall was the guy he was covering? He looked to be 5’4″ lol. I don’t mind he jumps in the pile a little late at times. I’m no scout — but he looked like he needs a LOT of work. You can’t peek that much in the NFL. Your name would be Toast. he got blown away on a few plays to his side too.
re: above about 5’8. I don’t even want my waterboy 5.8. No thank you.
There is a reason Bailey is a 3rd or 4th round pick.
He did use to be a linebacker. He needs more time to develop.
We have often discussed trading Graham. Would you guys trade Graham straight up for Shea McClellin from the Bears? He is not a good fit as a 4-3 DE for them and was tought of as a 3-4 OLB coming out. He is 6-3 and 260, so he got the size Kelly wants.
The general opinion of why he hasn’t worked out is just fit? It’s not work ethic or mental toughness at all?
I liked him coming out, but I really don’t feel good about that right now based on what I’ve heard about that situation.
He is a bit undersized for DE and many people wondered why the Bears took an OLB to play DE
Yeah, if that’s the case McClellin sure beats the 5th rounder Tommy thinks we can get for Graham.
this org is going to scout QBs every year, regardless of what other QBs may or may not be on the roster. Get used to it.
scouting QBs is different than wanting competition at starter.
didn’t say it wasn’t. But the fact they are scouting QBs is what’s being reported on, no?
The “competition” aspect is more notable. McCown was a better QB than Cutler this year but there’s not competition there. I don’t think any other QB that had as good of a year as Foles would be hearing “competition”.
Plenty of teams with QBs take QBs as developmental or backups but you don’t hear another coach discussing competition WRT their starter as much as Kelly.
Funny there’s more competition at that spot than at kicker…
There isn’t competition with McCown because Cutler is a better quarterback, period. And as much hate as Cutler gets, it was never enough to overlook McCown’s issues.
“competition” in this context is just another Chipism. As you said, Kelly is big on it
Landry provides versatility, that’s for sure. If he can step in to the slot, we could try Boykin on the outside. Can Cary Williams slide to safety (I think I saw a columnist mention that in the last month or so)? Also, Landry could be your safety that can cover AND play the run, which would have helped against the Saints who ran it down our throats because we were in nickel most of the game. You could use these guys in various packages and you could have something like this:
RCB: Boykin / Williams
LCB: Fletcher
SCB: Landry / Boykin
S: Wolff / Landry / Williams / ?
I know you don’t want Boykin taking 90% of the snaps but he’s too good to be only taking 50% of them.
Landry is a WR from LSU
Yeah that whole post was silly.
Shit. I meant Joyner. Was trying to type fast (i’m at work)
That is a terrible draft