Former 1st Rounders

Posted: February 5th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 70 Comments »

There was an interesting discussion on Twitter today about how some teams will give 1st round busts a second chance, hoping to strike gold. NFL teams love talent. Guys taken in the 1st round might not pan out, but they had to show something to get taken in the 1st round. They normally have talent, even if it is more potential than reality.

That got me to thinking about 1st rounders and recent Super Bowl teams. I’m not talking about players drafted by the teams, but rather players signed as free agents or acquired in trades.

2013 – Marshawn Lynch, Percy Harvin

2012 – Bryant McKinnie

2011 – Antrel Rolle, Jimmy Kennedy

2010 – Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett

2009 – Chris McAlister, Jeremy Shockey, Jonathan Vilma

Most of those guys were a big help to their teams winning titles. The interesting thing is that some of the players were disappointments with their first team and then became key players. Marshawn Lynch looked like he was going to be a bust when Seattle traded for him. He’s now a dominant player. Charles Woodson looked to be on the way out when the Packers got him.

The Niners haven’t won a Super Bowl in recent years, but they’ve had a bunch of former 1st rounders on the roster.

Nnamdi Asomugha
Jonathan Baldwin
Glenn Dorsey
Carlos Rogers
Justin Smith
Donte Whitner

The Eagles had Mike Vick on the roster last year and he was the only 1st rounder from another team. The 2012 Eagles had several former 1st rounders….DRC, Nnamdi, Jason Babin and Vick. The 2011 Eagles also had Ronnie Brown and Vince Young. Clearly loading up on 1st round picks hasn’t produced the same results for every one.

The point is to have a strong core of developed players that can be complemented by outside additions. The Eagles had a flawed foundation in those years.

A couple of strong draft classes in a row have helped the Eagles build a strong core. This might be the offseason to bring in a talented project. I’m not going to list every potential candidate, but think about someone like Hakeem Nicks. He looked very good in the past, but was a huge disappointment this past season. I’d rather bring back Maclin and Cooper, but if they leave, the Eagles will have to consider signing a veteran receiver. Hicks could be a real interesting target. If he gets back to top form, he’s a tough, physical receiver who could thrive in Chip Kelly’s system. But…can he stay healthy? Can he stay focused?

Any time you add a former 1st rounder who is less than a “sure thing”, there is risk involved. You’re rolling the dice on talent. In order for the player to succeed, the team must make sure the fit is right. Is the player right for the scheme? Is he right for the coaching staff? Is the overall situation a good match?

I don’t see the Eagles as being a player away from greatness, but there is something to be said for taking a chance if the situation is right. You can’t force the situation. And you need to make sure you are getting a player who still has something left in the tank (as opposed to Nnamdi). If a team hits on the right player, he can be a big help in pushing the offense or defense to the next level.

This is all just something to consider as we discuss the moves the Eagles should make this offseason. The “dream team” offseason didn’t work, but we shouldn’t give up on signing former 1st rounders altogether. When done right, those moves can have major impact.

* * * * *

Jimmy Bama wrote an interesting piece. He built the Eagles according to the way Eagles fans would like for the team to be built. The result is interesting to say the least.

I miss Derek Landri…

_


  • Weapon Y

    Scarily true about the Eagles fans’ team. That’s definitely a product of Reid, who did little to change the fans’ minds at the end. It’s also probably the product of the Buddy Ryan era (with the exception being the QB position). I think Chip will have the power to change fans’ minds soon. Especially if I’m right that he’ll win several Super Bowls (that’s right, plural. More than one. Super Bowls) for Philly.

  • Vick or Nick

    If Pat Chung doesn’t get cut…

    I will cry.

    • Media Mike

      Should we send a knife catalog to the team with a note if they’ve seen the Chung model?

  • shah8

    Most of the productive “busts” are disgruntled players who feel happier playing on a new team. Others, like Manning are just old, good, quarterback going for their last hurrah. First round busts that don’t tend to work out are those with serious uncorrectable deficiencies, like Taylor Mays. Injury prone people also do not tend to work out, either. Someone like Reggie Bush is a very interesting example, actually. Then again, Bush was never truly a bust–looking at younger players today, he was slightly ahead of his time, I think–comparable to someone like Percy Harvin or Tavon Austin, who are meshed in today in a more comprehensive way than Bush ever was in New Orleans .

    I don’t think Nicks would be a very good free agent pickup. At this point, personally, I think I will think of the next season as a rebuilding year, because regardless of whether Foles is good or not, the league is going to be much more comfortable about how it thinks about defending Kelly’s offense. Thus, I’m not sure there is a strong path to the playoff as of right now. This makes me believe that the primary purpose of next year will be about getting better at what we want to do, and getting better at doing orthodox plays on offense. So, on offense, I want a free agent vet QB, kick tires on OL depth folks, and I’d take a flier on some young fast thing like a Travis Benjamin, but the primary way I’d want serious WR help is a potentially dominant talent that we feel we can coach up (nobody with no stone hands, though!!!). Spend next year teaching and training. Just need much more attention to defense.

    • anon

      We only have to win the division to make the playoffs. I think we are the best team in the division. I agree we aren’t one player away, but you never know what can happen in a season (look what happened to our division last season), so i think you need to be constantly adding those specialty pieces — don’t want an opportunity to come that you miss b/c of personnel.

      • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

        ^ this. With Eli, Romo, and RGKnee returning, I’m confident we’ll always compete for the playoffs. Because of course the league will catch up to Kelly, but he will not grow at all in his 2nd year? sheesh

        • GEAGLE

          League may catch up to Kelly’s offense the previous year, and they may learn last years Sport science secrets, but we will always be changing, evolving, looking at the latest..This isn’t some stubborn system coach like AR. This is a well versed SEE COAST Offensive mind who will continue to change and morph his offenses to stay ahead of DCs…don’t know how much studying Chips previous year will help DCs…especially when this ain’t even this crazy Bizzare offense that needs studying. It’s actually pretty basic stuff, with some smoke and mirrors (motion,ghost motion) dressing it up, predicated on giving the QB enough options to where he should always be able to exploit a defenses weakness(basically just following the numbers game of how many are in the box)
          ..
          If you look at FOles stats in 2TE sets this year, he was CRAZY EFFICIENT, so I’m expecting us to be more 2TE heavy next year than we were this year, especially with Ertz poised to take a big leap! Really hoping we can trade back, get an extra pick and scoop Fiedorowicz to start grooming behind Celek

          • Buge Halls

            You all need to realize that Shah8 is simply another incarnation of Eeyore and he will never be happy. Kelly could win four Superbowls in a row and it will be nothing more than a gimmicky offense and still re-building to Shah. I have never seen him post a positive comment on here!

          • GEAGLE

            I wouldn’t know, rarely read what he writes

          • Ben Hert

            “This is a well versed SEE COAST Offensive mind who will continue to change and morph his offenses to stay ahead of DCs…don’t know how much studying Chips previous year will help DCs…especially when this ain’t even this crazy Bizzare offense that needs studying”

            I think I disagree a bit with that statement. Everything he’s said, and everything we’ve seen over the course of the first year, dictates that Kelly’s offense is about utilizing the simple base concepts of his offense, then adapting the play-calling to what the defenses are giving you.

            Kelly calls a football game like a chess match, except I think people misconceive why he’s so good at it. He doesn’t have his first 30 moves planned out in advance trying to out-think his opponent. That was AR. Kelly lets you play as White, and reacts to your moves. He tells you what he’s going to do, and he does it well, and if you do something to stop it, he changes it up. Simple, yet beautiful.

            The reason I bring this up is you hear a lot from outside the fanbase that Kelly is going to stumble in the second year, and people are going to adapt to his offense, etc. etc. Go watch game tape from the first Washington game, then watch it from the final Cowboys game. Ignoring the obvious changes at QB, its basically the same thing. He’s not going to try and out-do himself with adding kinks and widgets to his playbook. Sure, in his second year he might step-up the playcalling a bit now that his players are used to the system, but I think it’ll be the same successful formula we saw last year.

          • GEAGLE

            You can’t possibly believe that a guy like Chip showed more than 25% of I his offensive arsenal in his first season?

          • Ben Hert

            I think he showed at least 75% of it, if not more. I mean, I guess a lot of it depends on your definition of “offensive arsenal.” If you’re talking individual plays, yeah I’m sure there’s a huge combination of routes and reads he could toss together, but from what I gather that’s not how he calls the plays.

            I look at his “arsenal” the same way the Eagles call in a play during the game. The three guys standing on the sidelines sign language-ing in the play call to each group on the field are simply breaking down an individual play that a QB would normally call in a huddle, to specific route trees or blocking schemes to each group. If you want to think of his plays as something akin to calling a play in Madden, yeah, he’s probably got a bunch of combinations of basic concepts that we haven’t seen put together yet. But when you break it down, its the same basic concepts (most the time, with a h/t to the unbalanced line and tackles lined up on the wings kind of plays), same typical NFL routes and blocking schemes that have been around forever. They’re just applied in different combinations each time to create a combination that can take advantage of the defense regardless of what they show.

            Maybe it comes down to a difference in viewpoint on playcalling, but I really do think we’ve seen a majority of Kelly’s offensive concepts. As I said earlier, he doesn’t win by picking the exact right play out of an AR-esque binder of them; he takes each group of players on the field and puts them in a position to take advantage of what the defense gives them. It worked this year, and I see no reason why it won’t continue to work next year.

            When it comes down to it, Kelly is playing chess, and everyone else is playing checkers.

          • shah8

            I think Rob and Rex Ryan would disagree with you. In general, it’s not really all that possible for coaches to outthink other coaches. They are all trying as hard as they can, and anyone who doesn’t keep up, like Dan Reeves in the late ’80s, or doesn’t have it, like Schiano, tends to get viciously exposed.

            Besides…Kelly’s offense, the basic pieces in it, aren’t that new. Just stuff cobbled together from the classics and refashioned into something new. That’s why, ultimately, the players have to get better at carrying out Kelly’s vision, and filling it out with more standard plays so as to keep everything fresh and DCs full of worries.

      • shah8

        Teams can slide out pretty badly. Just look at playoff teams from 2012 to 2013. Vikings, Texans, etc. Much of the disaster next season fundamentally came from the league being very used to their offensive styles and finding a way to defend it using the team’s philosophy and style. WRT, it’s also about decline of the OL and Schaub, but principle is largely the same, as anyone who’s paid attention to how well the Texans have coped with good teams past 2010 or so…

        • Maggie

          The teams you mentioned , plus some others who slid badly in 2013, have already changed their HCs, OCs, DCs, and, in some cases their entire coaching staffs. The Vikings were riding AD and once he was hurt, they went in the toilet. The Texans got smug and maybe a little old in spots. Who knows what happened with the Falcons. Maybe both of the above? Coaching matters. Starting to phase out older players matters. Complacency kills. This article is about 1st round draft picks who do not do well with their first team, then shine after a trade. One more time, coaching might be as important as talent. Finally, (and aren’t you glad!) Chip Kelly has insisted all along that he has NOT reinvented the wheel, he is merely fine tuning it. And is probably not putting his toolbelt away just yet.

          • shah8

            Falcons suffered far more severe losses on the OL and also lost key WRs for big stretches of time. Meanwhile, the defense stopped being able to rush the passer with Jon Abraham leaving. They also were up against two SB capable teams for a quarter of their season.

  • Insomniac

    Hakeem Nicks
    Danario Alexander
    Kenny Britt

    Those three could be the possible targets if Cooper doesn’t resign with us.

    http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/02/05/ben-natans-2014-nfl-draft-rankings-wide-receivers/

    Some more insight for this years WR class.

    • Media Mike

      All 3 have injury issues.
      Nicks is lazy
      Britt has serious character issues.

      I doubt Kelly / Roseman would waste time with Nicks or Britt. Alexander is interesting, but I’m not sure if any team is going to offer him a big deal.

      • anon

        Agree, if he stays unemployed i’d try to give Britt a 1 yr prove it where money is only guaranteed after TC. However, he sounds like a guy in need of the Bellicheck system.

        • Media Mike

          Britt is really most in need of a prison term. He’s used a lot of money on lawyers to circumvent guilty verdicts that you our I would not have. Britt is a complete and total low-life.

        • D3FB

          Plus I believe Britt is from Jersey. You really don’t want a guy with character issues to be around all his friends from home.

          • Ben Hert

            Excellent point. If a guy has a hard time staying out of trouble in TN, I can’t imagine it’d go in NJ.

          • RobNE

            Did that not work well for Aaron Hernandez?

      • Maggie

        looked at Britt’s record. Several DUI’s. It would seem that he does have a drinking problem and thinks nothing of getting behind the wheel while impaired. He is not going to stop until he kills someone. Let’s not forget that these kind of drinkers make the decision to drive drunk before they lift the first glass. Poor attitude, poor decision-making, no regard for others, like teammates.

      • BreakinAnklez

        I wonder how much Kelly’s prep and sports science plus help with Nicks constant injuries. Danario just has bad knees…nothing can fix that. Britt is a disaster waiting to happen, no thanks.

        I’d take a chance on nicks.

  • Media Mike

    My favorite part about that Jimmy Bama article is the rip job on Mark Barron and DaShon Goldson. I’ll admit I was very high on Goldson as we entered free agency, but when the eval of him came back as “can’t cover” I was happy to see that the Eagles didn’t sign him. Glover Quin (over Chung) is a miss for another day. Mark Barron, when people were showing his “highlight” film at Alabama, showed himself to be a guy who was extremely slow to close on the football. Bad reach by Tampa.

    Although I still can’t figure out why Claiborne hasn’t been a shutdown CB for Dallas. His film from LSU was dominant. I remember sitting with my friends on draft day being very bummed Dallas got that guy. Oh well.

    • Anders

      Claiborne is more of a press guy and Dallas has been playing more off.

  • bubqr

    Quick draft question guys. I don’t have time to follow the college ball anymore, which is a not great come draft time, but has one advantage – I often come unbiaised. This year “I don’t get the hype player is CJ Mosley. Could someone explain? After 3 games cut-ups I see a LB on the small side, with good instincts, very good tackling, who is quick but not that fast, struggles a bit with blocker. I really don’t get the “he won’t be there at 22″ thing. He looks far away from a P.Willis, L.Kuechly type of prospect. I even prefered Beason, Hightower, Rolando McClain as prospects coming out to what I see of Mosley. Could someone convince me he’s just not hyped because he played for Alabama?

    • Media Mike

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeP-0Pp-dgw

      I’d tend to agree with you.

      • Buge Halls

        Wow – I’ve never seen a guy blocked and thrown around so much with just one arm! Yeah, just on that tape alone, I’d pin him 3rd round. Granted, that’s the only ting I’ve seen on him, but if that’s typical of his play, no way he’s a 1st round pick.

        Easily blocked, always trailing the plays, out of position a lot (that may be the play calling though). The good news, he had one decent open-field tackle and doesn’t seen afraid to hit. Like I said, I’d take him in the 3rd. Luke Kuechly type? Not even close!

        • D3FB

          Really? Can I get an time mark on him getting “thrown around with one arm”? 3rd Round pick? Did you miss the 3 PBU’s from an ILB? Did you miss the monster TFL? Did you miss the sack? So your telling me you think a stat line of about a dozen tackles, 2 almost picks, 3 PBU’s, and a half sack is a bad stat line? Please do tell…

    • D3FB

      Not sure why you think he’s on the small side.

      Mosley: 6’2 238
      Ryans: 6’1 247

      Willis: 6’1 240
      Bowman: 6’0 242
      Kuechly: 6’3 235
      Laurinatis: 6’2 248
      Posluszny: 6’2 242
      Lee 6’2 234
      Burfict: 6’1 255

      He is plenty tall and most linebackers in the league now play in the 240’s. As far as speed I expect him to run in the 4.6 or very low 4.7 range which is good. Like you said he has good instincts and tackles well. Most college linebackers don’t throw OL around but Mosley is willing to attack linemen and will get better as his technique to stack and shed improves. He is just as good coming downhill against the run or blitzing as he is dropping into coverage. He can play sideline to sideline. He was the unquestioned leader of that Bama defense for two years. His floor is Laurinatis, His ceiling is top 5 ILB in the league. On top of all this he’s the top ILB in this draft. By alot.

      Who would be considered the next top ILB? Jones and KVN would both have to transition to ILB, Smallwood isn’t as dynamic or effective as Mosley. Borland is a midget. As much as I love Skov, he’s lost alot of athleticism since he hurt his knee, and as soon as he loses a half step he’s done.

      • Mitchell

        The real question is: Have you come around on Gilbert yet?

      • bubqr

        First of all thanks for your feedback, which is what I looked for.

        6’2 definitely proves me wrong – He does look smaller than that.

        I don’t question whether or not he is the top ILB (and I can’t answer btw), I question the fact that he’s an obvious top 15 pick. Funny you mention all those names above – As a prospect, does he look better than S.Lee, Laurinaitis, Bowman, Poluszny did at the time, all non first rounders? I am really not sure. You can even throw Maualuga, Wagner, L.David, C Lofton in the discussion (different type of player but same type of “value” to me).
        Willis and Kuechly, both top 15 picks, looked to me like a lot better prospects at the time, and clear cut top 15 picks. They just were the complete package. Especially Willis (I wanted him as an Eagles so badly). I don’t see that from Mosley, I don’t see a great range, and I don’t see the same “physicality” than you. I don’t see the first rounder.

  • Mitchell

    Watched the tapes of Odell Beckham Jr. last night…. was blown away quite frankly. Idk how this guy doesn’t get pushed into the first round or EARLY second. I could sum up Beckham simply as: He comes to makes plays.

    • Anders

      Agree, I know some Eagles fans would hate him due to size, but guy can jump and make insane catches. He would be perfect WR to suplement Maclin and Jackson

      • GEAGLE

        which one was the MONSTER return man, was it Beckham or team mate Landry? One is a beast of a ST player, can’t remember which

        • Mitchell

          From what I saw Odell was pretty insane. He is just so fluid in his returns. Plus his name is Odell which instantly adds to his likability.

          • GEAGLE

            One of them is like flat out Scary as a return man, just can’t remember which one it was, but I’m pretty sure they both were returners at LSU and probably both would provide a ST upgrade early on, while we are easing them into the lineup

        • Anders

          Beckham is the return man

          • GEAGLE

            Thank you..

      • Mitchell

        Not only that but he was so fluid in his RAC. A juke there a simple stiff arm here. I think Kelly would really like him.

        In regards to height, If we have 3/4 receivers who require constant attention then the height of said receivers shouldn’t matter as much because the opponents backs will have to cover so many bodies leaving their 3rd/4th string defense vulnerable.

        It’s like strength in numbers. We will have so much receiving talent to pair against the defense it won’t matter how tall they are. In summation you can’t have all tall backs covering WR’s, unless you are Seattle. There is only so many to go around.

        • anon

          doesn’t matter if you have 5wr sets if your guys can’t beat man coverage. quality over quantity.

          • Mitchell

            That’s what my whole argument was quality over quantity. Go back and read it again. Anders was saying that the fanbase may not like another smaller receiver. If we have 5 quality guys who may not be as tall as other receivers, it won’t matter.

      • bill

        I know we’ve been on this merry-go-round before, but I HIGHLY doubt that we will see a 1-2-3 (in terms of snap counts) of Jackson, Maclin, and Beckham. Much more likely is that Beckham will take snaps from Maclin and Jackson and function as a 4/RS for the year. There’s a reason Cooper was getting generally more snaps than Jackson at the end of the year, and it certainly wasn’t because he was a better receiver or playmaker.
        If Beckham is BPA in the 2nd, I’m all for it. Sounds like a playmaker who fits in Kelly’s system better than any of the current (including Maclin) WRs. And should be a huge upgrade at RS. I’m just less convinced than many that Kelly is lying when he identifies blocking as very important for WRs, and says “big people beat up little people.” The snap counts from the end of the season lend some empirical support to my conclusion.

        • Anders

          basing all that on two games? The Cowboys and the Saints game? What about the 3 games before where Jackson played more? It was up and down all season who got the most snaps.

          Kelly would 99% have played Maclin over Cooper if Maclin hadnt blown his knee, so while blocking matters, catching the football is still no. 1 job for a WR.

          • bill

            2 important games. And given that there is absolutely no universe in which Cooper is remotely near Jackson’s playmaking and receiving threat, it is very much revealing that it EVER happened, especially in crucial games. Plus, Jackson was actually #3 in the Saints game, behind Avant, who is even less a playmaker than Cooper. If playmaking and receiving were everything, as you and others are making them out to be, there is 0.0% chance that Cooper and Avant see more snaps than Jackson in a playoff game that your team trails in for most of the game.
            Again, I just am not so willing to ignore what Kelly says and does in predicting what he wants. It’s very possible that Maclin gets more snaps than Cooper if he stayed healthy. But I still highly doubt that you’d see Kelly have no big WRs getting significant snaps. I don’t see a 1-2-3 of Jackson, Maclin, and Beckham, and I point to Kelly’s statements and personnel usage in key situations to support my opinion.

          • Anders

            “If playmaking and receiving were everything”

            I never said that, but it is the major part of been a WR. See what happened when Cooper dropped a critical 3rd down play?

    • http://www.corcommunity.com/ theycallmerob

      and returns kicks. the real deal. very, very impressed by both LSU receivers, not a bad consolation prize if they go LB or S in the 1st

  • GEAGLE

    I think as soon as Nicks signs his next big deal, he will mail it in. If that deal isn’t there for him this year, he will sign a one year deal, have a big year, get paid, and never be the player he was…that’s just the impression he gives me. Also don’t know how he feels about blocking his ass off 50% of the time…
    ..
    Then again, I expect neither Coop nor Mac to hit FA, both will be extended before they make it to the market, so WR is a position I expect to get younger at, not sign other teams veterans

    • Ark87

      Nicks ruined any hope of his big payday. Not all of it his fault, point is he’s due a prove it contract like Mac, mailing it in will mean retirement

      • GEAGLE

        I mean mailing it in,after he gets his next Longterm deal. If he has to play on a prove it deal, which is what I also expect! he will mail it in after he plays his butt off on the prove it deal and signs for some GUARENTEED money

        • Ark87

          ah, I agree then. In the event that Mac and Cooper leave, and we don’t take a WR high in the draft, he is a viable option on a prove it deal, for the short term (if doctors approve of course). That’s all I’m saying. I wouldn’t though, seems fragile, physically and mentally.

    • A_T_G

      So, we should give him a 1-year deal?

      • GEAGLE

        I wouldn’t touch that dude

        • Tumtum

          No chance of being contenders in 2014?

          • GEAGLE

            Sure, why not? I just don’t think teams get put together and head to the SB two years later. I believe in the natural progression of not just young players, but also young teams..can we be legit contenders next year? There is certainly a chance..but this isn’t a Super Bowl off bust year for me. I think young teams need to compete together, lose together, before they can get over the hump. Hopefully we are legit contenders, but according to the typical natural progression of young teams: we won the division last year, made the playoffs, put up a good fight against the saints and bounced out of the first round…If we don’t win the SB this next year I can’t consider that a failure. If we miss the playoffs, or don’t win the first playoff game, to me that would be a failure. I would expect us to win our division, win our first playoff game, possibly the second, and then lose in the conference game, with 2015! Being the year we really take a legit run at that Lombardi….of course we have seen that if you get yourself int the playoffs and get hot, anything can happen…

  • GEAGLE

    Wonder if Howie tries to trade for jets WR Stephan Hill(those player for player trades Howie made famous in the NFL)…this years Arrelius Benn if you will

  • GEAGLE

    I believe we have the majority of our starters in place and we will look to restock our depth across the board with young talent that we hope to groom into our current starters eventual replacements..basically I don’t expect to Lose a Riley Cooper! Draft a WR and pencil him in as the #2 WR in September. I think the young WRs we add are going to replace Damaris and Maehl, and the more they grow, the more they rise up the depth chart with the goal of improving enough this year to where they can move up the depth chart NEXT year, so we can replace Avant and Brad with more YOUNG Talent, and by 2016 it should be hard to keep them off the field and they will be ready to start replacing Desean…That’s how we transition to the next era of WRs without initially having to take a few steps back…so if the plan is to have them replace Damaris and Maehl initially, the WR we draft are going to be counted on to play ST….so with a STACKED WR draft class, I think ST play will have a significant role In how we set our draft board..
    ….
    The more we can avoid losing a starter and having to pencil in a brand new Eagle as his day one replacement, the better off we will be. Ideally when it’s time to lose a starter, we will have his replacement groomed already in house, the eagles way for a year or two, and if you are drafting kids who you don’t plan on penciling in as the day one starter, then their ST play will probably be very important to us

  • eagleyankfan

    Harvin is a bit of a reach — but I get what you mean.

  • Cafone

    I love the idea of getting Nicks. Before this year, his injuries might have been a greater concern to me but maybe with the sports science stuff leading to an unprecedented roster health we should be looking for guys whose cost might be a bit lower because of concerns about persistent/nagging injuries.

  • GEAGLE

    Question: How much money should you be allocating to your entire stable of safeties?

    I despise Chung, but he will be here next year after getting his pay slashed dramatically down to 1.5-2mil per year. He will be a deep emergency in case of injuries or young players struggling while focusing on leading our special teams
    ..
    Earl Wolff makes peanuts, what is it? 400k?
    ..
    No matter who we sign in FA, we are still drafting a safety(outside of round 1) who we will be paying rookie money to..say 1.5m-500k?

    Can’t draft 3 safeties in one draft so we will have to sign two safeties, one will be a cheap depth safety(not signing two starters) say he gets 1.5per year

    If you give Byrd/Ward 8mil per year, you are still really only investing like 11-12mil per year in the safety position..I find that to be much more responsible then paying Barwin!Cole.BG first round money AND signing say a Micheal Johnson to a Barwin deal. That a lot invested in the OLB position, and it’s bad when Cole and BG aren’t the Longterm answers. If you can sign MJ coming off a 3sack year to Barwin money, I think you have to strongly consider him because it’s damn good value and we would be placing a serious athlete! with an ideal body in the hands of some good coaches! but then you would have to start to set your sites on how you will get out of Coles deal after the 2014 year. If we were to add MJ, we still would need to get younger at the position, so you might be forced to have to dump Graham, and I don’t know how I feel about that, considering I expect us to not be players in next years market because we have to sign so many of our guys, and if we aren’t players in the he market, we get a nice compensatory pick for keeping BG for a year and letting him walk…So yes, I think we can add MJ, but then we have a lot of contract maneuvering to do at that position…Think it’s easier to justify investing 8mil in a safety, when the other 4 safeties on your roster cost a combined total of 3-4mil

    • Tumtum

      The way I understand compensatory picks to be awarded, holding on to BG does very little to help you in that area, in and of it self. He contributes but no more than anyone else.

      I say that the team has no plans for him in their future. He rarely saw the field, and is probably better suited to the 43. I say trade him to a 43 team for whatever you can get, and the value is much greater.

      However you add a play making line backer, I think everyone agrees it needs to be done. The guy I am going to keep then, is Cole. You can’t afford roster space or money to keep both. Thats a one year thing though because Cole’s salary baloons to 10mil + after 2014.

      • GEAGLE

        I don’t think it takes a genius to see that we only have one Longterm OLB on our roster and it’s Barwin. Cole and BGs days are numbered…I was asking a legit question and was hoping I would get some decent feedback, while I don’t disagree with you, it’s kind of an odd response considering what My initial post was…was hoping for some relevant responses…silly me

        • anon

          I dont think any of us can really answer the question you’re asking without doing a lot of research into what comparable teams do. What’s the strength of the D, is it going to be LBs (likely in a 3-4), DL, Secondary (corners v safeties). Given that we had the money and we didn’t spend ANY really at safety last year i think that lets you know how we feel about the safety position, especially b/c there were middle of the road guys around last year.

          Is 11 million too much? You got 1 guy getting paid 8, then 4 getting paid a total of $2+m? What happens when that lisfranc flares up next season (assuming we got Byrd). Then you’re back where you were last year — maybe worse. Considering our two starters (chung / allen) are droppable (the two you’d retain chung / wolff) had injury problems all throughout the year it doesn’t make any sense just to get Byrd / Ward (see the one chin strap rule).

          Now if we had a decent mid level vet i think we’d be more likely to splurge on a difference maker. Personally i’d be happy with Hitner and Clemons for a total of 10-12, have wolf + draft + colt + chung.

          Also no reason to berate another commenter.

  • Tumtum

    Usually like the stuff from Jimmy. That was pretty terrible.

    • Mac

      I found the article to be quite funny, especially with the ironic ending.

      • Tumtum

        Its probably because I think that if Tampa has a really good roster.

        • Mac

          That may be part of the point… that you can have everything the fan base wants and still have poor results. It’s how everything comes together that determines the outcome. Tampa was defeated by poor coaching, other teams are defeated by injury, and still others are defeated by sheer bad luck.

          I would expect the Bucs to be a tough out with Lovie Smith at the helm. A big part of their problem next year will be being in such a competitive division (arguably one of the best from top to bottom).

          • anon

            Soooooo much talent on that team. Defense is going to be crazy. Who is their offensive coordinator? Though maybe they’ll try to be the seashawks. I’m scared. Put Revis with that safety group, those hitters?