Ranking the NFL QBs
Posted: February 11th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 132 Comments »Former GM Jerry Angelo is now writing for various websites. He wrote scouting reports on QBs for all 32 teams and gave out some grades. Let’s take a look at what Angelo had to say about Nick Foles.
Nick Foles 8.0
Put up top numbers and achieved the best QB rating in football. Once they made the change to him, they won. He knows how to protect the ball and get them in the end zone. Oakland got a dose of how good he is doing it.
Foles came in 12th in the NFL and fell in the category that Angelo described as this:
Played at a high level. Was one of the reasons – but not the reason – for his team’s success… not elite.
That seems like a reasonable report and grade on Foles.
As for the other NFC East QBs…
14. Tony Romo
20. Eli Manning
21. RGIII
* * * * *
Missouri DE Michael Sam came out and announced that he’s gay. I think this is good for the NFL. Some player had to be the first to take this step and Sam seems like a good candidate. He is a highly successful college player (2013 SEC Defensive Player of the Year). He’s not an elite prospect. Sam has been referred to as a 1st round prospect by some media outlets, but he’s simply not that good. He should go in the 4th or 5th round.
Sam came out to his teammates back in the summer so he has a year of experience of dealing with the issue. Obviously Mizzou isn’t a media hotbed, but it is still impressive that the story didn’t get to the mainstream media. Sam was respected enough by his teammates that they handled the situation in the right way.
Could Sam be of interest to the Eagles? Possibly. He’s not an ideal fit. Sam is 6015, 260. That means he is just a bit under 6-2. I think the Eagles would prefer taller LBs. Sam’s arms are 33 1/4 inches long, which is pretty good size. That helps to make up for the lack of height.
Sam isn’t a gifted athlete. He is more of a DE than a LB. The coaches at the Senior Bowl played him at LB and Sam looked lost at times. This actually reminded me of the 2005 Senior Bowl when a kid named Trent Cole played LB and looked lost. He turned out to be a pretty decent pass rusher.
Sam is a tough, physical player. He is relentless in going after the QB. Sam lacks elite burst and makes a lot of plays based on effort. That’s great, but doesn’t always translate well to the NFL.
Sam isn’t likely to be a key target for the Eagles, but they could have interest if he does slide to the later rounds.
Some teams will be put off by the gay issue. It isn’t necessarily homophobia, but rather fear of a distraction. Wherever Sam goes, there will be lots of media attention and his teammates will have to be very careful about what they say. Any awkward comment and you’ve got a potential controversy.
Teams that have strong organizational structure and a solid locker room can handle the situation and could be very interested in Sam.
I wish the young man well, unless he goes to Dallas.
Please discuss this situation in the right way. We don’t need bad jokes and inappropriate comments. Most of you guys don’t need this comment, but I just want to be up front on this subject.
_
Do you think this team needs a WR who can consistently peat press man coverage? If so who are the best candidates in the draft who do so?
“I just want to be up front”
No worries Tommy, I will bring up the rear.
Angelo’s list was interesting. I thought he had Cam a little too high (tied with Drew Brees? IDK about that), and putting Alex Smith a full .3 ahead of Foles doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Smith is a game manager, which he does well, but he’s basically an upgraded version of Trent Dilfer.
Oof, he has Vick waaaay down there too, below EJ Emanuel, Geno Smith, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, Josh Mccown.
I know that he probably forgets more about football than I’ll ever know… but really? He rated Vick .1 above Matt Moore, Kellen Clemens and Chad Henne.
Also, evidently, Dan Orlovsky is an emergency starter option, but it doesn’t matter who you put around Kirk Cousins, you can’t win with him.
I agree, thought Cam was way too high.
His numbers are pretty much the same all 3 years in the league. Panthers defense DVOA rank tho
2011 – 32
2012- 11
2013 – 3
This.
Smith ahead of Foles by 0.3 – I could easily see an accurate description of Foles being labelled a “game manager”. He plays within the scheme and takes the plays that the scheme and defence gives him. He looks after the football, limiting turnovers. He makes very few “wow” throws.
Against that view point is that Foles did the above at an exceptionally successful rate.
I believe that Foles will prove that he belongs in the top grouping of QBs, over the next couple of seasons. But I can also see that he could end up being just a game manager.
Regarding Sam, when I read the story it didn’t even raise an eyebrow for me. In this day and age, it’s a non story. Twenty years ago, I’m sure my reaction would have been different… progress 🙂
I’ve read a number of comments elsewhere that are a little like yours in the sense of calling it a “non story”. But it’s the first time anybody has come out as gay in any of the 4 major sports BEFORE they began their professional careers – that’s a huge story! A few others have done it after their careers were over which is not quite as gutsy. I think I know what you mean by saying it’s a non-story – i.e., times have changed, we have gays in the military, gay marriage, etc, etc. But for someone who is gay and is an athlete and in the closet, I imagine they might feel a little freer today. And for the macho realm of professional football to have someone come out as gay, is about as big a story as it gets. And yes, that’s progress. And as Iskar says below, someday “we (will) no longer care about a football players sexual orientation.” And that will be progress too.
It’s a strange thing. I understand how big a deal it is, and how brave Sam is for doing it, especially with respect to timing. I hope I could be as brave at some point in my life. But at the same time, I don’t want it to be a big deal. I don’t want to put more pressure on him than he already has. I want the media to stay away from him after this initial burst of reporting. Focus on what matters (in context) – if he proves he’s good enough for the NFL (and that he doesn’t have any serious character flaws – the NFL has set a pretty low bar in that respect), that’s all the NFL and its fans should care about. And most importantly, in my mind, this should not be a big deal. The big deal should be if anybody is stupid enough to make an issue out of it. That’s who should get the media spotlight (negatively, of course). And hopefully, as noted above, no one implies (of course, if someone is stupid enough to admit a discriminatory intent, different story) a discriminatory intent if the odds play out against Sam in the NFL, because that will only keep the issue alive for longer.
Agreed – it is selfish to act all “I’m bigger than this” – great, you are wiser and more mature than most – good work buddy, but in reality this is a HUGE story that is not about YOU…the fact that for decades homosexuals have not been free to be out in the NFL is crazy…yes, it is progress that we are all happy about, but to act like “who cares” is to deny a major shift in the NFL, and to deny that we all were all complicit in the old philosophy…
I agree with you and others that say this is a big story. My use of “non story” wasn’t the best choice of words. I should have said I am not affected by the story in a shocking or negative way. He’s gay, okay, play ball. End of story.
I really hope Sam does well in the NFL and that he can mark the beginning of a time when we no longer care about a football players sexual orientation.
One thing that I don’t think we will ever really know but would be interesting to find out is whether some teams hesitate to draft him not because they think his sexual orientation would be an issue in their locker room but because as a mid to late roud prospect, if he fails to impress as an NFL player (certainly not a completely unlikely scenario for your standard 4-5 round player) the team will have a major PR challenge if they want to cut him strictly for football reasons. I just hope wherever he goes, he goes to the right system with a strong organization and strong coach. Of course, if he does become a successful player, that would be a fantastic story for whatever franchise drafts him.
What I am impressed about, is the fact is that he said he was gay straight up before any rumors or stories made headlines. I respect that.
I think that’s a great point re why teams might not take a chance on a mid-round talent. It would not be unheard of for such a player to play poorly enough to get cut before his first season. If a GM were to release him, and one player said something stupid about his sexuality, all hell could break loose.
I think it’s well within possibility that most teams are going to take him off the board entirely for that reason, that they don’t want people assuming they’re bigots if he has to be cut for performance. It just seems like a headache and a media circus waiting to happen when people’s ideals collide with the harsh reality of the NFL.
The player who Sam reminds me most of is Antwan Barnes. Both are 6’2 250ish and solid pass rushers who are a nice complement coming off the bench.
Also here’s great read that provides a behind the scenes look at the process it took to prepare for the media blitz of Sam coming out: http://www.outsports.com/2014/2/9/5396036/michael-sam-gay-football-player-missouri-nfl-draft
Barnes was a sleek, speedy rusher. Sam has a thick build and is stronger, but not as athletic.
Much props to:
* Teammates & coaches who respected Michael and his right to privacy – more or less, because as we know……
* ….scouts and front offices seemed clued in….but props to them for not going to the media……more or less though….because some did know……
* ….but also kept quiet
and obviously….
Michael Sam himself, because doing this right before the Combine is nuts and awesome and ballsy.
So props to humanity for gossiping, but not outing or breaking the story before Michael Sam had a chance to do it himself.
Its a great story. If he falls to our late 5th round pick, I’d love to take him there.
___________
Thought the Nick Foles ranking was pretty good – if you told me after this season that Nick would be the 12th best QB in the league, I’d be psyched. Seemed fair.
Andrew luck might be the most overrated player in the nfl right now
Consective 10+ winning seasons with only 2 other good players and he lost one of them this year, yea he is overrated………
Playing the AFC South for a good chunk of their season sure helps.
Still, outside of Mathis and Wayne, do the Colts have any good players? Ty Hilton looked okay, but I wouldnt call him a very good player yet. Luck also lost one of his favorite targets in Dwayne Allen to IR last year.
The Colts team goes as Luck goes, where a team like the Seahawks still won games when Wilson didnt do shit (the Seahawks would still have won the Super Bowl even if the Hawks offense had punted on every drive)
Can’t upvote this comment enough. Any other young QB on that Colts team probably is coming off his 2nd losing season (and most likely, getting his second top 5 pick teammate in the upcoming draft). Meanwhile Alex Smith accomplished virtually the same amount as Kaep, and I’m struggling to think of a QB who played a playoff game as poorly as Wilson did v. the Saints and still got to play the next week. And as much as I think Foles gets held to a higher standard than the young mobile QBs, there’s no way he’d have been to two playoffs on that Colts team – he’d have two seasons like his rookie season under his belt. Luck could still regress and become a slightly better version of Stafford, but right now? There’s no question that he’s in a class by himself amongst the “young” QBs.
One could make that argument for Brady playing in the East for his entire career….
His stats don’t compare to Brady, Manning, or Brees but people continuously lump him together with them. He’s good not elite
He also doesn’t have the playmakers that they do.
Being overrated and bad are not synonymous. He is not elite. He is good, and has the capability to be elite if he stops making so many stupid mistakes.
No. Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernick are the most overrated QBs in the NFL right now.
I call Richard Sherman – that dude is good, but top CB in the league…egh
I think he might make the argument that he’s better at life than you!
Thank you Michael, that is very sweet of you. So you are so threatened by my question of Sherman’s rank in the NFL that you need to go to personal attacks…man, I really need to learn how to live like more like you. Go ahead and make that argument…what do you know of my life OR HIS FOR THAT MATTER? Stop being rude and try to engage in actual conversation on here…we have no place for ignorant trolls…this space is reserved for real Eagles/NFL talk, not attacks. So please in dulge me, I am waiting to hear your argument of why I am worse at life than Richard Sherman – what are your main points again?
Take it easy, Mark, it’s a joke. See this and all will be explained. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/richard-sherman-skip-bayless-first-take-life-video_n_2832163.html
hehe – sorry Michael – I’m an idiot…missed the joke – thank you for clarifying…hehe
I should have put in the link in the first place… my bad!
I should know better – trolls are rare on Tommy’s site, I quickly jumped to a silly conclusion…
Cam Newton at 4 is a joke.
As I understand Angelo’s list, it’s a ranking of quarterbacks’ performances this season, not an overall ranking of quarterbacks. Did you break down the film to formulate your own rankings? Do you have information necessary to determine whether Newton at 4 is a joke? The guy had a really productive year despite being surrounded by pedestrian — at best — offensive talent. I understand you have opinions as to what type of quarterbacks is good and what types of quarterbacks is bad, but statements like this should be based on more than your own predilections. If you’ve done the work necessary to rebut Angelo’s opinion, I apologize and retract the above.
Your rant is fine but “performances this season”? How is Rogers even ranked playing 1/2 a season? Until proven otherwise — list starts with (in no order) Brady/Manning/Brees/Rogers…you can argue the rest after that…Cam can’t carry the top 4 luggage yet but he still has great potential – but this list isn’t suppose to be about potential(according to your post)
The ranking isn’t about potential according to the ranking itself. My point is not that Newton is a top 4 quarterback. My point is that you understand what the ranking is before criticizing it. And if you haven’t thoroughly analyzed the QBs’ performances this year, you can’t offer informed criticism.
It doesn’t say that it’s based on 2013, it says it ranks every quarterback FROM 2013, as in, every quarterback that played in 2013. If the rankings were based entirely on the 2013 performance, it’d be completely different. The list makes no attempt to define itself. I’d wager it’s simply an amalgamation of accomplishments, skills evaluation, assumed growth potential and an attempt to account for circumstances.
The list exists only to generate page hits and debate so I’d say it’s fair game to even the most casual fan and that thorough analysis is not a prerequisite for strong disagreement.
We’ve all seen Cam play since his year as a semi-pro at Auburn. We’re informed enough. I’m an Auburn fan, rooting for Cam, but his ranking is ridiculous. Indefensible really.
I would have Foles ranked a little higher, but there’s nothing unreasonable about where he is.
No real work necessary. If you sort 2013 QB ratings, Newton comes in 16th. He’s not a top passer.
I would assume Angelo did some film study. Or at least did more work than sort by one statistic. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit though.
He may have, but I know Greg Cosell is not a fan of Newton at all and I trust Cosell analysis of passers more so than I do Angelo’s. Newton far too often throws passes that are inaccurate or he takes off an runs when his first read is covered.
It sounds like Sam is an effort guy with a high motor. His possible similarity to Trent Cole makes it a lock. Michael Sam to KC in the 4th.
Some people like to talk stats, other people like to use the eye test when judging QBs. My eyeball test isn’t quite what it used to be since I had Tommy perform in-home Lasik, but I tell you what, and this is no lie, that if I pull out a telescope and set it up about 10′ from a sheet of 8 1/2″ x 11″ paper I can dial it in just right and read the words Joe Webb AND Mike Vick.
This eyeball test indicates to me that Chip Kelly can’t win in the NFL without getting one of these great (and greatly under-appreciated) QBs, or at least get out there and sign Mark Sanchez for crying out loud, I mean he’s made some amazing playoff runs in his career.
Kudos to Sam! Applause all around.
Foles ranked where he is ranked is amazing. Pushed to the side in pre-season. Road the bench waiting. Never lost focused. Came in and Wally Pipped(yeah, it’s a word :)) Vick.
As weird as it sounds after such a great season, he needs to mature and improve. Hoping he only gets better with age….
Jerry Angelo was not exactly known for great QB evaluation with the Bears.
Have to respectfully disagree on Sam. He should keep his private life, private. Why did he come out–maybe because he expected to go high, and realized he wouldn’t be picked until round 4 or 5. So he’s gets picked 5th round maybe, and the media cries bigotry, and he sues or becomes a “victim”. He wins either way.
I agree that the media will be nonstop on his story–from minicamp to game 16. Even Diane Sawyer will be in the shower room in a 1950’s hair-net and a microphone. God help the player who says: “I’m not comfortable being his roommate.” He’ll be Riley Cooper–ized X10 by the media pack. And that divides a locker room.
yes being the first openly gay player is definitely win-win for him.
This is one of many, many steps that have shown America that people you know and love happen to be gay, and steadily and quicker than anyone realized could happen turned the tide on gay marriage etc. Which in turn tells gay teenagers it’s ok to be gay.
Not all those steps go smoothly or are welcome by everyone but they all add up. There may be missteps, there may be teammates that say something which (fairly or not) brings criticism, but this all adds to the conversation that pushes the issue forward.
Whether he makes it, gets cut, gets too much attention – who knows it’s not predictable or always linear progress, but this is a great thing to happen.
Couldn’t disagree more. SAM is politicizing this issue. He could have quietly told coach- interviewers, “Look, I’m gay, but I just want to play football. Let’s not make it an issue.”
He clearly wants the issue.
I’d say the only “clear” thing here is your biased viewpoint. Regardless of your opinions on the issue, there are clearly still plenty of places and institutions in America that create environments to make homosexual individuals or behavior “inappropriate”. The NFL, and sports in general, have been that way since the beginning.
Also, he came out a year ago. He jumped on the issue now on his terms, before it was leaked (there were already reports of questions about it at the Senior Bowl).
For you to attack his character and intentions while knowing so little of his background and story belies the long way this country still has to go.
He looks like a liar and a cheat attempting to conceal it or, when he gets asked and says ‘no comment’ And you give media too much credit they are tripping over them selves to be the first to out him. Makes him look like he is not honest and not proud.
He was smart to announce it and move on instead suffocated under the millions if whispers, and circuitous route teams took to confirm it.
I do want the issue. It’s bigger than this one player.
Gay marriage will be the law of the land in all the states soon enough. You should get on board while there is still time.
The story was bound to get out sooner or later. By coming out and announcing it publicly, Sam A.)gets ahead of the rumors, stories, etc. and B.)answers the question once and for all for everyone, so he doesn’t have to keep addressing the issue every time he has a new interview with a coach or personnel evaluator.
If he keeps talking about his sexual orientation as his career goes along, bringing it up in irrelevant contexts, etc., then you’ll have a case to accuse him of politicizing the issue. As is, you don’t.
I don’t understand why people are so upset about your comment.
You stated a fact: he could have handled it differently.
You stated an opinion: you think he should have handled it differently.
I think the misstep is in assuming you know what is in another man’s heart. “As water reflects the face, so one’s life reflects the heart.”
just my .02
In all honesty, I’m making basically the exact same points and not receiving so much as impoliteness. The key is that I’m keeping my analysis focused on reality and not adding emotionally charged judgements that people can latch onto and rebutt with the contrary emotionally charged judgements.
Yeah +1
He wanted this out so that it would not come up near the draft and drop his stock. By letting the teams know ahead of time franchises could prepare and make a sound decision on whether to draft him or not.
Its an unfair expectation to place on a young player to “keep his private life private” when he is gay. Imagine being in a locker room where everyone is talking about their girlfriend/wife/hook up/stripper, tosses around “gay” as a pejorative and assumes that you’re gay because you’re never seen with a girl, but nobody really knows and whispers about you behind your back.
Better to put it all out on the table, especially at this point in his career, at this point in history. Future gay players may not need to do it this way, but I think Sam made the best decision he could under the circumstances.
I really don’t think Sam is showing much respect for his future teammates–and the bind he puts them in.. But then again, its all about him.
What “bind” is he putting them in? WTF is your problem?
Are you media-clueless??? Suppose a player is scheduled as his roommate, and refuses? Does he get cut? Suppose someone makes a gay joke in the locker room–is that a hostile work environment? Players will have to walk around on pins and needles, lest the media crucify them.
Then there is the issue of HIV and testing, sharing a bloody towel, etc. All these things are much better worked out by coaches, trainers and players… IN PRIVATE. Get it?
Now they can’t be. Everything will be a public negotiation, with the media running back and forth going: “did you hear what so and so just said?”
It will wreck the season of any team that drafts him.
WTF–can’t you think?
WOWWWWW.
I don’t even know where to begin. I just…WOW.
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
You’re drunk. Go home.
And how many hours did it take you to think up that brilliant comment?
I’ve had that one for a while!
Sexual orientation should not have to be part of someone’s “private” life. If that’s who he is, there’s no reason he should have to keep it a secret.
And there’s no reason the NFL has to draft him. But we’re already on the road to hysteria…
Dude you have serious issues. History never has and never will look kindly upon bigots.
I think you mean the present? History did, and isn’t that what we’re progressing from?
I mean history shows that we (presently) never look kindly upon bigots. Throughout time, whether african-american civil rights, women’s suffrage, etc., those that fought against progressive reforms are looked upon as mouth-breathing cretins, or worse, monsters.
barneygoogle, based on his comments here and diqus history, is not leaving much of legacy.
Its easy to just scream bigot when you’ve got nothing between either the ears, or the legs.
Dear angry old white man, please stop embarrassing yourself.
Its obvious you have nothing to say. And stop the angry old white man stuff–it beats being a dumb young gelding.
Yeah, I actually have a ton to say, but this isn’t the forum for it, and I feel bad enough for Tommy that the comment section here looks like this now.
With that said, I think people like you are everything that’s wrong with this country.
Instead of embracing our differences and embracing the fact that we can be different without persecution in this country, you spew hate and lies (you honestly think HIV testing is going to be an issue NOW? REALLY?).
I looked through your comment history. Classic angry old white man anti-LGBTQ bigoted and incendiary comments.
You’ve developed a persecution complex because you feel the world around you is changing in ways you don’t agree with and you’re lashing out at those who support this change.
Anyway, in short, now I REALLY hope the Eagles draft Michael Sam, so bigoted neanderthals like you will go far away from here.
You’re misconception is that he is seeking special treatment. You are assuming he is going to attempt and exploit his sexuality in this insanely over PC society. Perhaps he will benefit off the field. On the field he is just another number.
Of course he is not another number now. He’s more talked about than Teddy Bridgewater…….
Maybe that’s what he wants.
Agreed. I don’t consider it to be private that I’m straight. Why should the opposite be private?
Why does anyone care about another person’s sex life? And why on earth would anyone want it to be public domain?
Sex life and sexual orientation are two entirely different things.
I’m not going around my office telling people how many times and in what positions I did my wife last night anymore than I’d expect Sam to tell his teammates how he always provides a reacharound.
But everyone knows I’m married to a woman and I’m not going to hesitate to have her come to meet my coworkers or display pictures of us togehter because I don’t want them to know I’m straight anymore than Sam should have to hesistate to introduce his partner to others as his partner or hang a picture in his locker of them together because he doesn’t want it known that he’s gay.
well said
If I were in his situation I would of done the same thing. Better to do it on your own terms rather than on some crack reporter’s terms who is trying to make a name for himself. Don’t give it time to be sensationalized. “I’m gay. I play football. End of story”.
This will be a non-story by week 10 next season.
And was it…the end of story? Or just the beginning? It will be a non story by week 10 if he gets cut on week 5.
Why would anyone be uncomfortable with a gay roommate? One of my best friends in the world is gay and we lived together in college. Nothing happened between us while I was sleeping. You just sound really ignorant.
Barney: this is not an era for the reactionary. Nothing that has been said to you here is surprising or likely to change very quickly.
🙂
Its pretty crazy to see Nick Foles listed in that 2nd tier of QBs. It really sets in when you see the names behind him on the list. Superbowl winning names. Is Nick Foles good enough to win it all? I hope so.
My first reaction was that Foles was listed too highly for the perhaps “flukey” QB rating, that Romo was listed too low, and Griffin listed too highly. After actually looking at the list I think his placement of Foles and Romo was pretty spot on. Its hard to believe Romo started 15 games and didn’t break 4,000 yards… with a historically bad defense… wow. I love that he just got paid.
I still think RG3 rated too highly on this list. He has the ability but he certainly didn’t put it together. If he isn’t careful he could find himself on the Vince Young career path. That isn’t to say just because he is a mobile black QB . Peaking the rookie year and then following a downward spiral is to what I am referring. Granted VY is crazy person and RG3 seems like an intelligent, good person. Different ailments can have the same symptoms though, and he seems to be on the path to being a Diva.
One last QB comment: Can’t believe how down on Stafford talent evaluators seems to be. He is another guy that needs to shape up. Sounds like he is too full of himself to dedicate himself to what he is coached to do.
As far as Sam goes I hope the Eagles don’t draft him for mostly selfish reasons. Firstly because he doesn’t seem like a schematic fit. Reminds me a Brandon Graham (but who am I).It seems like almost every off season there is some big to-do-about-nothing… or some media spectacle.
As far as Sam goes I hope the Eagles don’t draft him. Firstly because he doesn’t seem like a schematic fit. Reminds me a Brandon Graham (but who am I).
Then I have selfish reasons. It seems like almost every off season there is some big media spectacle in Philly. Lasty year it was Chip and Riley. The year before it was that Lurie giving the winning record or else speach, before that it was the Dream Team, before that it was Donovan leaving town, before that it was Vick out of prison, and on and on and on. I just want to talk about football.
I will be rooting for him though weather its for the Eagles or any other team. He should really consider investing in braces though. His face is going to be in history books for pete’s sake!
That’s the wrong reason not to draft him. The media will do what they want. They’ll make stories out of flimsy info because they need to keep an audience. You draft Sam based on whether he can help your team win or not
I agree but I do think it takes a certain toughness to be able to deal with being “the first” civil rights ground-breaker, and this has to be evaluated and considered. Coming out now instead of waiting for the the entire world to know first is only a positive for him.
I agree. I also think it will eliminate teams that probably do not have the best atmosphere for him. His draft stock may drop because certain teams will remove him from their draft board but his overall well-being in his career will be better for it.
I agree, ICDogg. And I think it shows leadership too which apparently he showed on the football field as well, to hear his teammates tell it. He seems like a high character guy which will help his draft stock. I think his bigger problem, draft-wise, will be that he’s a bit of a tweener – too small to play DE in a 4-3 and not smooth enough to play OLB in a 3-4 so far, but maybe he can be coached up.
He fits AR’s wants very nicely. Which is pretty much the reason, unfair as it may be, why I don’t like him as an Eagle.
The Chiefs are running at 3-4 under AR. So, theoretically, it’s a similar situation there as it is in Philadelphia.
I more meant the type of talent AR looked for in Philly. Body and style wise. “High motor”.
Who doesn’t like “fastballs”?
You missed my primary reason I guess. Your comment was based on my personal selfish additional reasoning.
I’ll stand by it!
Unfortunately for Sam, that reasoning is just good business sense. Is it really worth the risk of a media circus and shame upon the organisation if something goes wrong with a marginal talent, a guy who’s probably never going to be more than a role player? If you have two similar prospects, why wouldn’t you pick the other guy? Progressive ideals don’t win football games or make money, and in this case could conceivably lose you some of both.
You do have a good point. I didn’t think of it from that perspective as much. So many people are trying to compare Sam to Jackie Robinson. Societal issues aside; Robinson is one of the best players to ever play the game. Sam doesn’t appear on the same track.
I think from a club business perspective though, it is more of a winning situation. From what little I know I think the gay community is very supportive of one another. Heard on the radio yesterday the American gay population has somewhere in the neighborhood of 790 billion in buying power. That sounded like a lot to me so I googled it… and google agrees. That is a LOT of effing jersey sales.
As far as Riley, there’s risk with every player. Problem with Sam is he has demonstrated an extra aspect of risk that is now known and must be accounted for when considering acquiring him. In all likelihood, he’ll be a distraction at best a la Tebow if nothing goes wrong. And it can go really wrong depending on who his teammates end up being.
The point about spending power is interesting, but the people who would be responsible for bringing Sam in don’t care about jersey sales but winning games. That’s what they’re fired for failing to do. One aspect of Sam’s individuality can be at best a distraction from that goal, at worst extremely damaging to it.
Not to knock the great 42, but statistically speaking he was a good player. He’s a Hall-of-Famer because of societal issues more than his on-field play. And he absolutely deserves all the respect he gets for it.
I dunno… until Riley shot off his drunk mouth last off-season was pretty football.
I understood you. But the Philly media will always grasp for straws no matter the situation. That’s why I said its the wrong reason not to draft him. If Sam is not on our team then another non-issue will dominate Philly’s sports news so it doesn’t really matter.
This is philly, there will be media attention no matter what.
I’m really pleased about this. We’ve just had 2 active athletes come out in the Uk, but one’s a diver, and one a female soccer player so not high profile at all. I hope he gets drafted in the 4-5th round, and not Kerry Rhodes blackballed.
http://deadspin.com/joe-banner-michael-lombardi-out-in-cleveland-1520561205
Joe Banner out in Cleveland. Didn’t take long…
Yep… I didn’t see that one coming.
what is the owner thinking? one year?!? wow. And now they have a head coach who wasn’t picked by the new GM, which could lead to another set back.
You nailed it in the first sentence- Haslem isn’t thinking.
man, G-d sure does hate cleveland
you’d think the brilliant trade of Trent Richardson alone showed they had some kind of a clue and should get another year.
So strange. That team is loaded – good talent, ton of cap room, and two picks in each of the 1st, 3rd and 4th rounds. Lombardi/Banner were basically building towards this offseason, and now won’t be able to see it through.
much more to this story. has to be.
Cleveland is the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL right now, and that’s saying something with Washington and Detroit out there too.
As much publicity as Sam is going to get for martyring himself for the cause, I think it would have been a lot more effective if he had waited a year or two into his NFL tenure to come out. As it stands now, every little look he gives in a locker room, every comment he makes, is going to be scrutinized by his teammates and inevitably find its way back to the media. Had he waited, say, two years into his NFL tenure, to then come out, I think his teammates and FO would realize that this whole time, things were normal, no one was going to get groped by the gay dude in the locker room, and things would be OK. It would have helped ease any of the concerns people are getting ripped apart for bringing up.
The problem was is the number of people who knew was growing to be too large.
http://www.outsports.com/2014/2/9/5396036/michael-sam-gay-football-player-missouri-nfl-draft
Foles is impossible to rate right now, simply too small of a sample. He’s not as good as last year’s stats (which would make him an elite QB), better than his rookie year stats (with a terrible offensive group). He’s shown great progress between his rookie and second season, improving his mechanics and feel for the game. He’s answered questions about his arm strength, shown the accuracy and feel for the passing game to become an elite QB, and the discipline not to throw the ball up for grabs in the heat of the moment (something Andrew Luck hasn’t shown so far).
This coming season will be his litmus test, while most QBs don’t peak until around their 5th season, Foles will have to show that last year wasn’t a fluke, that he’s not just a product of Chip’s system but a key component (one could have said Brady was the beneficiary of Belichick’s defense and conservative offense which required him to make few difficult throws until 2004 when they opened it up, or that Peyton had Harrison and Wayne and Mudd as his OL coach). It’s not that 2014 is going to define Foles, rather, it will set a realistic baseline from which one can expect some improvement with experience, but not a quantum jump.
one could definitely say that about Brady and yet it’s those early SB wins that somehow make him the greatest QB of all time.
Agree that’s a fair evaluation of Foles.
Vick should be ranked higher. I’d rather have him than Kyle Orton, Jake Locker, Geno Smith, etc.
I prefers Locker over Vick, except he is just as fragile as Vick.
Locker played really well this year on an offense with only 2 good players
I agree with where Vick is ranked based on the specific wording for that tier:
Does not have the mental make up or physical talent too perform as a consistent starter. He’s temporary relief, but not a long term solution.
Vick’s placed in that tier because he cannot stay healthy enough to be a consistent starter or a long term solution. I think it’s a durability thing, and it’s pretty legit imo.
That list should be banned from the internet anyway. I cannot believe I just read:
To win with him 2 of the 3 of the phases have to be dominate or surround him with high caliber players.
Ugh. Dominate is a verb. Dominant is an adjective. How do people get that wrong so often?
Because we don’t force every kid to learn latin anymore.
🙁
There’s only 1 language in ‘Murica.
“Homosexual player claims discrimination and bullying by teammates, team X homophobic organisation”
Does anybody think contributing to a civil rights movement by drafting this guy is going to overwhelm the downside? Can a GM responsibly subject the organisation that is his charge to this kind of risk by drafting such a player? Isn’t his responsibility to his organisation and not to the public’s ideals? Should a GM really put his career on the line for the sake of some moral ideals? If you were the owner of the team and spending the millions of dollars, would you want a GM who would put ideals over winning?
At best, he’s always going to receive an inordinate amount of attention for being a pioneer, and that attention is not going to be in service of his team.
What I’m pointing out is that I hope this player realised that he’s putting his right to be authentic over his chances of having a career in football. If he thinks living by his ideals is more important than being a football player, he made the right choice. If he thinks he can have both, well, I hope his new teammates are like his old ones.
Hopefully it turns out OK, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes undrafted because of this. And it’s not impossible no team is willing to touch him at all. In my opinion, the GM that does acquire him must be incompetent.
15 major league GMs and owners thought along those lines in 1946.
Only 1 didn’t. Just takes 1.
Yeah, that’s all it takes.
Exactly what that made me think of too.
maybe it’s just not as big a deal as it is to you. The more it happens the less a deal it will be and you need to start somewhere.
I like how you say “hopefully it turns out ok” and then that any GM who picks him is incompetent. Just say you don’t want it to turn out ok.
No, I hope it turns out OK for Michael Sam. But from the perspective of the organisation that chooses to deal with him, it seems like a losing proposition.
PE.com has done it again
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/multimedia/videos/Scouts-Notebook-Evaluating-TEs/2c6306e3-870f-499b-96e5-e76dde497589
That is a great break down with some of the biggest media draftnicks.
The only thing that would worry me about the Eagles drafting a gay player is that some of the other players might embarrass themselves and the organization with comments to the media if they are not prepared. Hopefully someone on the Eagles coaching staff takes the time to address the players about it before it happens. I’d suggest something like this: “When questioned about homosexuals in the NFL, say that you have no problem with it, even if you do, or more than half the people in the United States are going to think you are a horrible bigot and you will be questioned about it over and over again for the rest of your public life.” Or maybe just “Remember Riley Cooper!” would work.