The DeSean Story and the Media

Posted: March 19th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 167 Comments »

Some Eagles fans are totally convinced that the DeSean Jackson “story” is pure fabrication from the media. The extreme version of that argument is that there isn’t enough news going on right now so the guys are just making stuff up to get readers/listeners/viewers. I can assure you that is not the case.

Now, the story is tricky. Everyone is itching to be the guy who gets the nugget that officially breaks the story. People are beating the bushes to find a scoop on this so they can be “the guy”. I don’t think there is anything irresponsible about this. The reports I’ve seen and heard have been reasonable, even if you don’t agree with the content.

Reporters are talking to a variety of sources. Those sources could be agents, players, coaches, team employees or other people who are part of the NFL machine. Are all of those sources 100 percent reliable? No. But passing along bad info doesn’t mean the person has a bad agenda. They could totally believe the info that they’re passing on, even if it turns out to be erroneous.

Nobody really knows the Eagles exact plans, but that doesn’t mean that someone hasn’t heard “things”. It really is hard to come out and explain this in great detail because getting info from sources isn’t done in some standard format. Sometimes you get info. Other times you get hints or very broad bits of info.

I would never report anything I didn’t feel completely comfortable with. Someone fed me a good scoop a few years ago and I didn’t know the person well enough to fully trust the info so I didn’t pass it along. It turned out that the story was half-right.

I can’t speak for the mainstream guys and how they report things with any sort of expertise. I know they do hear things and don’t always report them. I take that to mean that they have a set of standards on what they’ll run with and what they won’t.

As far as things go with me…I pass along what info I can, but I don’t report everything I hear. I try to be judicious with what I pass along. I will say this…if I write about something, you can generally take that as a hint that I feel there is something to the story. Hints can be important at this time of the year. I know that puts pressure on you the reader to figure out what’s what, but that’s the best I can do on some topics.

Some of you are angry with Jimmy Bama. I love to joke around about him, but I’ll be serious for a minute. Jimmy worked hard and earned a spot at Philly.com. His job there is to write about the Eagles. They haven’t put any pressure on him to break news and be a reporter. Jimmy’s initial piece was speculation based on some evidence that was piling up. Jimmy never said “THEY’RE TRADING DESEAN!!!”.

What you don’t know is what led Jimmy to write the piece. Did he come up with that theory or did he hear some things that all of the sudden made the other info suddenly fall into place? Jimmy and I analyze info all the time. That’s what we do. Sometimes we  come up with false conclusions. How much time did all reporters spend writing about the 4-3 Under last year? Everyone knew that was going to be the scheme. Oops. Chip caught us off guard and went straight to the 3-4. Sometimes we do read things correctly. I watched tape on Safeties and came to the conclusion that Malcolm Jenkins would be the best fit. The Eagles went and signed him. It felt good to be right on that one.

Jimmy introduced the idea of the DeSean trade to the mainstream. We don’t know if he came up with the idea on his own or was given a hint, but either way I think the piece he wrote was fair and responsible. He made the case for why DeSean could be dealt, but also explained why that wouldn’t make sense. Jimmy had no agenda. He was simply sharing a theory. Jimmy isn’t anti-DeSean. Not even close.

Once Jimmy’s idea got out there, it generated a lot of discussion. That led to other members of the media getting involved. Geoff Mosher wrote that DeSean was on the outs. Jeff McLane wrote a strong piece against the story. Paul Domowitch mentioned that there have definitely been discussions about trading DeSean. Les Bowen seemed to think this was more media speculation than reality. Reuben Frank is dipping his toe in the water on the side of DeSean getting dealt.

Why the differing opinions? They talk to different sources. Also, I think some just can’t see the logic of the move (Sheil Kapadia for sure). It doesn’t make a ton of sense to anyone outside the NovaCare Complex.

Make sure to read (or re-read) this piece by Tim McManus. He gives an overview of the situation and seems to have a good feel for things.

My take on this is that some in the media have heard from reliable sources that something is going on. Others in the media haven’t heard that and just struggle with the idea because it seems so far out of left field. Why trade a WR coming off his best season? Why????

* * * * *

I’ve mainly focused on Chip Kelly when trying to explain how the Eagles would be making this move, but there is another consideration. DeSean’s teammates. DeSean has never been the most popular Eagle in the locker room. Teammates questioned his effort in the past when he let his contract become an on-field issue. He was benched by Andy Reid back in 2011 during a loss. There were some sideline flare-ups last year with coaches and teammates.

Which guys were the ones who generally tried to keep DeSean under control? Jason Avant and Michael Vick. Now they’re gone.

This is pure speculation on my part, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were more than a few people in the organization who were tired of dealing with DeSean.

Some of you think trading DeSean is a sign of weakness on the part of Chip Kelly and the Eagles. “If they can’t handle one guy like him, what does that say for them?” Some of you wondered about my comments about Jimmy Johnson wanting his guys and how he dealt with Michael Irvin. There were a ton of criticisms to throw at Irvin, but never on gameday. He was beyond ultra-competitive. No one ever questioned effort or toughness with Irvin. Sunday was his day. The rest of the week was a mess, but he showed up on Sunday ready to battle.

DeSean was a terrific player in 2013. Can we count on that this year? Will he be the same guy? Maybe.

Maybe not.

If he’s dealt, that tells you that Kelly felt like it was a move that needed to be made. Kelly does open himself to major criticism if this move goes down. When I say I trust him, that doesn’t mean I’m putting blinders on and won’t be critical of the guy. I’m simply saying that while this move doesn’t make sense to me, I’m willing to trust that you know what you’re doing. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction, I’ll give you some time to show what your plan is.

Chip has proven to be smart in free agency, the draft, training / mini-camps and during the season. Perfect? No. But smart. He’s made some decisions I didn’t like, but so far they’ve mostly paid off. He has a plan. He has a vision. Chip needs the right staff and the right players to make that vision work.

If he has decided that DeSean Jackson isn’t part of that, then do move him.

Jeffrey Lurie hired Chip Kelly to come in and build the Eagles back into a strong football program. Chip needs to run things the way he wants and that is going to mean making some unorthodox decisions. If one of them is trading DeSean, so be it. Chip has my trust.

(as long as he keeps winning)

* * * * *

Some of you asked about compensation. The rumor came out that the Eagles might only get a 3rd round pick. Obviously that’s not fair compensation for a player of DeSean’s caliber. That said, trades don’t always turn out to be fair. The market changes due to circumstances. If teams think the Eagles are willing to trade DeSean, his value goes down.

Some have suggested the Eagles get a pick and then move up in the 1st round if they trade DeSean to a team with a higher pick. I’m fine with that deal. The only problem is that the team might be behind you (NE, SF). You could still figure something out.

The Eagles will try to maximize the compensation, but don’t get your hopes up for some huge return. That doesn’t seem likely at this point.

_


  • Scott

    It’s grat how Howie is the villain now and can’t trade him.

  • Kristopher Cebula

    Thank You Tommy. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire

    • Mark Sitko

      too bad the reporters and bloggers claiming there is fire are the only ones lighting matches…

  • Mike Roman

    The fact that this is such a gifted WR class won’t help his trade value. However, I think what DeSean gives you that some other receivers don’t is his value “beyond the stats”. His presence alone opens so many things up for other players.

    I think San Fran’s number of draft picks make them an interesting trade partner — if you feel comfortable dealing within your own conference.

    • Tumtum

      So he can make us pay for the next 5 years.

      • Mike Roman

        I definitely don’t want them to trade him. I really wouldn’t want them to trade him to a team like San Fran either. I was really just pointing out why the 49ers could be potential suitors. I have to believe that his play on the field and what he means to this offense outweighs the occasional headache he may cause. Anyway, everything at this point is purely speculative. I’m just keeping my fingers crossed that #10 is still in midnight green (although I prefer kelly green) when training camp starts.

        • Tumtum

          Yep and everything you said made a ton of sense. Which is probably why I am so bothered by it LoL.

    • TheRogerPodacter

      i think you pointed out the exact reason why he helps this offense so much. he will ALWAYS have a safety deep over the top to his side. That is the first step in stretching the field. the stretching of the field both horizontally and vertically seems to be a very big part of the Chip Kelly offense.

      • Moosebreath

        This is exactly why trading DeSean makes no sense. His value is not merely that he is a top 10 receiver. It’s that no one else on the roster is enough of a deep threat to open it up for the others.

      • xeynon

        he will ALWAYS have a safety deep over the top to his side.

        This is a myth. Jackson does not always demand deep safety help and teams with elite cornerbacks have shut him down without doubling him.

        He’s a really good receiver, borderline top 10 in the league – but he’s not a singular talent.

    • Weapon Y

      The receiver class is overrated IMO. The only one who will be a superstar is Sammy Watkins.

      • Arby1

        I think Evans will be right there with him.

  • ChaosOnion

    I wrote this on BGN and I have no better words for it. I would say I thought Jimmy’s piece was well thought out. My post was never meant to disparage Jimmy’s piece. It is the remainder of the media swirling about trying to land a scoop, trying to be the first guy, that has myself and a large amount of the fan base all riled up.

    *Jimmy did not write a story.*

    Jimmy posited a theory. I was a good theory based upon sound reasoning. EVERYTHING else I have read has either tried to parrot Jimmy’s original theory or been baseless speculation.

    DeSean asked for more money. WRs do that when they are top 10 in
    yards and top 5 in yards per reception of WRs with 80+ receptions in.
    While playing in a run heavy offense. He said it once at the end of the
    year.

    * DeSean is a diva. NEWS FLASH!!! DJax is a diva! He is a WR. Most of them are divas.

    * DeSean has off the field issues. He has not been arrested for
    shooting himself in the leg. He has never failed a drug test. He has
    never had a DUI. He has not had to put himself in rehab. He speaks out about bullying and does work around the community.

    * He had friction with the coaching staff. See: DeSean is a diva.

    * DeSean has a large salary. You pay for performance. He performs, you pay him.

    * DeSean’s house got broken into. Idon’tevenwtf…

    The “story” is anyone can be traded for the right price. If the
    right price comes along, you take it. Maybe guys like Brady, Brees and
    Rodgers are untouchable, but if OAK offered 3
    1st round picks for Brady, Bellichek would certainly think really hard
    about it. This “story” about DeSean is a story about every player in
    the NFL. They are all for sale for the right
    price. We can come up with a more detailed story because we are close
    enough to see all the warts. A similar and much more enticing story
    could be written about Josh Gordon. We just do not know enough to write
    it.

    • mksp

      Were is this idea that all stud WRs are divas come from? Tell that to Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson.

      • Tumtum

        Its not uncommon.

        • xeynon

          It’s not uncommon, but there are plenty of star WRs who are not divas – not only Fitzgerald and Johnson, but also A.J. Green, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, Demaryius Thomas, Anquan Boldin, etc. The idea that a narcissistic me-first personality is an inevitable part of the star WR package is untrue.

          • laeagle

            You do see it more there than any other one particular position, though. Let’s just say a higher concentration of WRs are divas than players at other positions.

          • wahdoo

            I’ve seen Andre Johnson and Boldin get in a couple fights apiece. Being a “tough-guy” doesn’t preclude you from being a diva

      • P_P_K

        Two of my favorite ballplayers.

    • TheRogerPodacter

      “…if OAK offered 3 1st round picks for Brady….”

      tomorrow’s headlines: NEW ENGLAND LISTENING TO OFFERS TO TRADE TOM BRADY TO OAKLAND!

      edit: just to make clear, i’m trying to make light of the fact that the ‘buying’ party in the trade talks making an offer does not imply that the ‘selling’ party in the trade is in any way interested. but yea, they are listening…it would be rude for the GM to just hang up the phone, wouldn’t it?

      • Tumtum

        Exactly. If I am a GM I will entertain offers on ANYONE. Everyone has a price.

    • Jernst

      Couldn’t have said it better myself

  • Tumtum

    I wish baseball season would start already.

    • P_P_K

      But it could be a long, painful one for Phillies fans.

  • Richard Jones

    Sounds to me like T-Law is creating a buffer for fans that don’t believe he will be traded. I was one of those fans when the speculation first started. After reading so many stories and reading T-Law’s subtle clues and hits. I think he’s a goner. I think we will nab a 2nd round draft pick. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Deepest WR draft in years. I think DJax is traded and we will select two, yes two WRs in the draft…One very early, one mid to late. My preference early on is Jarvis Landry from LSU. Great route runner, hands, and super tough. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I also trust Chip. I’m not heavily for or against trading DJax. I’ll support whatever decision Chip decides. And it will come down to Chip, no way they move a weapon like that without his approval…

  • GermanEagle

    (as long as he keeps winning)

    This is why I am still not convinced that the team success will be greater without DeSean. Some players may smile more in the locker room, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the Eagles will get more than 10 wins, let alone reaching the Super Bowl..

  • Kd711

    I think there is obviously something behind all the smoke, but it’s easy to see why people would think it’s a media creation. It took all of 24 hours to go from a speculative piece by Jimmy Kempski, to Geoff Mosher on PFT live saying the Eagles could cut DeSean if they can’t trade DeSean him. Talk about escalation.

  • greenblood0118

    I totally sympathize with Jimmy and you, Tommy. Unfortunately there are just too many people out there these days who run on nothing but emotion and their brains have atrophied to the point where they can’t even differentiate between simple speculation and sensationalism.

    • Tumtum

      Think many have few issues with Jimmy’s speculative piece. They are mainly taking aim at the other (assumed) speculative reporting.

      I fall neither in that camp or in yours. I am firmly in the “trading Desean is stupid” camp.

      • Ben Hert

        I’m pretty sure there are a lot of people still butt-hurt from his Eagles fans FA mockery piece, and have found something (in their eyes) legitimate to get after him about.

  • shah8

    I know you want to be protective of your colleagues and the Eagles organization, but the negative response is from a stench of deep unprofessionalism.

    Maybe only some of us have read our Othello, but the whole thing smacks of Iago and a few friends (or Heathers), and the organization should have attempted to put a stop to it, up to and including white lies. Playing games with innuendo is fucking with the workplace. You know it, I know it, and everyone else does. It doesn’t matter if the dude “deserves it”, it’s a long way from appropriate. This damages team chemistry, and organizational rep, and that has long term impacts. And of course, this offense really does require Djax to work well. Kelly might think he’s Belichek and all, post Moss, but that required generational caliber talent at TE. We don’t have generational talent anywhere else but at RB and LT.

    • Ben Hert

      That’s a really fair point.

    • fran35

      Are you saying that this is “Joe Bannerish”? No disagreement here if the FO is indeed floating this.

  • Iskar36

    For me, the issue is combining the logic of Chip Kelly needing to run things the way he wants with the logic that we would not get fair compensation for a player. Publicly, there have been no major issues with DeSean. Privately, maybe there are some issues, but seemingly the most glaring one is that “DeSean does not display the passion for football that CK likes.” To accept unfair compensation because of a difference in philosophies of passion for football given that the player still performs at a high level is flat out inexcusable. I understand Jackson may not be an ideal fit from a personality standpoint, but unless there is a major problem that is destroying team chemistry (something that frankly there is zero evidence for, especially considering all the stories written last year about how great the team chemistry was), deciding to trade Jackson AND accepting unfair value in return is bad management and coaching.

    • Tumtum

      If I was a player on the team my thought would be: “He is an ass, but he is OUR ass”.

  • Andy124

    T-Law, Jimmy did say yesterday that,

    “The thinking that Jackson could be on his way out of Philly was never merely speculation, …”

    I still don’t think DJax will be traded. I still think it’s too risky. Some risks pay off, but that doesn’t mean you were on the right side of the odds when the risk was taken. That being said, Bobby Abreu was a good player. He wasn’t a total cancer. The Phillies didn’t have anyone of his calibre to replace him. Still, they got much better once they traded him away (SO WHY IS HE BACK?!). I can only hope for something similar if DJ gets gone.

  • Andy124

    Question, if a team isn’t actively looking to trade a player, how do they end up “fielding offers” for said player?

    I doubt mulitple teams just randomly start inquiring about a given player. Word’s got to get out first that his team is looking for offers. Wreaks of shopping them to me, just with a little spin on it. Is there some league dynamic I’m missing?

    • Kevin

      My theory Andy on how it could happen…. All of these rumors, speculations and reports start, GMs on another team look at the roster and think, we’ll maybe they would do it. They then get Howie on his bat phone and ask what is up. Howie being coy doesn’t answer the question and says what are you offering. The other GM throws out a third round pick… Howie giggles… Conversation ends and a source reports that the Eagles were offered a third round pick. Gunner believes it.

      • Andy124

        So basically, media creates the story, which a GM may react to, which is a story for the media.

  • Finlay Jones

    I think the people criticising jimmy haven’t read the article.

  • Mac

    Let’s talk about compensation. Let’s talk about fair market value…

    How much would you give the Dolphins for Mike Wallace?

    That’s about how much you can expect to get for DeSean Jackson.

    • holeplug

      Desean to Miami for Dion Jordan

      • GermanEagle

        You really think the Dolphins would spend 20 Mio/year on two WRs only, after giving Wallace a monster deal last off season. #keepdreamin

        • holeplug

          Nah wasn’t being serious. Would do that trade in a heart beat tho

  • Weapon Y

    Tommy, don’t you think Chip would be a hypocrite if he traded DeSean because he wasn’t a “team player” whatever that means? After all, he kept Riley Cooper around last summer and what he did was far more of a distraction to the team than anything DJax has ever done. Half of the guys on the team were openly insulted by that comment. That double standard would infuriate me.

    • P_P_K

      That’s a good point but the incident with Cooper was, seemingly, a one-time thing for which he apologized. It’s hard to say to what extent DeSean may be a “repeat offender” in Coach’s opinion.

    • Buge Halls

      When have you ever seen Riley Cooper fail to give his body up for the ball? Conversely, how many times have we seen Jackson alligator arm a pass?

      • shah8

        @ Green Bay, 2011.

        • xeynon

          Nah, that one was a terrible throw by Vick.

  • GermanEagle

    The best tweet came from Sam Lunch, that sums this DeSean mess perfectly:

    “If I were Jeff Lurie, I’d be surprised to learn that I pay $6.5 million a year to have my head coach minimize talent, not maximize it.”

  • Weapon Y

    Regarding compensation, DJax is better and healthier than Percy Harvin. Harvin got a 1st, 3rd, and 6th. That needs to be the minimum value of what DJax is worth.

    • bsuperfi

      I wholeheartedly agree with this. The value may sink a little bit below this because of the supply in the WR draft class, but it can’t sink too much or it’s not worth the deal.

      Though, given the risk of drafting a WR to replace DJax, I’d still have some worries. The next 3-4 year stretch is a critical window for the team to make a run if some key players develop as hoped. DeSean’s one of the few known commodities at this point who plays at a near elite level. The risk/reward looks ugly to me because of the timing, even given the theoretically improved team spirit.

  • Ben

    IF they trade Jackson for anything less than a very early 1st rounder then I am taking back all the good things I have said about how smart our FO has been. You don’t trade your best receiver after a career year at 27 years old.
    The whole idea is making me ill.
    Now if we get huge compensation then I am all in, but when I say huge, I talking two first rounders and cash, which will never happen.

    • Adam

      Cash?

  • James

    I want DeSean to stay because he adds SO much value short term. The problem I have is that there are too many occurrences that show how selfish he is as a player. Its weird because he seems to be the exact opposite off the field. He JUST got a mega deal not too long ago, and instead of praising ONLY his team and the work of coaches his response was to say that he deserves a raise. Umm NO YOU DONT DeSean, you got paid and you play for the team under contract, this is fair no doubt. If I’m the Eagles I become very irked by that, and agree they are right in their due diligence to listen to offers, especially with the limited amount of picks they have. If you can get something close to the Harvin deal, you pull the trigger, otherwise you have to deal with him because he really is incredibly valuable to this team and its ability to score.

    • P_P_K

      Well said.

    • teltschikfakeout88

      Dont think he wanted a raise….he wanted the contract as stated to be more secure or guaranteed…..

  • Stephen Stempo

    I don’t think it’s pure speculation. Though I say that in the same way that the “documentary” (and god do i use that term loosely) “Loose change” is. Loose change is the conspiracy youtube documentary that puts “evidence” together that attempts to prove 9/11 was an inside job. (it wasn’t). If the only information you ever had about 9/11 was this documentary then it could probably convince you, since it takes a lot of stuff out of context and puts it into it’s own context. That’s the thing about speculation though. Using only some facts you can easily convince yourself of a lot of stuff. I think Desean is a perfect storm. Like the timeline that was posted, and then all the past speculation, and a couple off hand comments here and there and you can easily construct a scenario.

    Now am I saying that this is all made up? No. I am saying that from what I’ve seen I wouldn’t constitute the “evidence” seen as the “smoke” that leads to the “fire.” I’ve seen some kindling lying around that could possibly spark, then possibly there might be smoke, then possibly we could follow that smoke to that fire.

    This Smacks of the Dion Jordan trade story.

    • Andy124

      We traded for Dion Jordan? Sweet!

    • Mike Roman

      I preferred In Plane Sight

    • Spooonius

      I hope you’re right. But the damage may be done.

  • CrackSammich

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again–If you ask any person in the world if they’d like a raise, they’ll say exactly what Desean Jackson did. Yes.

    • ceedubya9

      I know if someone asked me, I’d definitely say yes.

    • xeynon

      And if you ask any person in the world if he wants a raise in a context that will create problems for his boss if he answers truthtfully, he will get in trouble for doing so. The correct way to respond to that question was “my agent handles contract issues – football questions only, please.”

  • Dave

    Good or bad, a lesson was learned by all; if a story is written on a reputable website/newspaper about one of the highest paid players on the team possible being traded, it will garner A LOT of attention.

  • livingonapear

    “I watched tape on Safeties and came to the conclusion that Malcolm Jenkins would be the best fit. The Eagles went and signed him. It felt good to be right on that one.”

    So you derive satisfaction from this column? That sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

  • GermanEagle

    This just in:

    Sharing a Tweet by @LesBowen – @LesBowen I am told @Ike58Reese is right, Chip Kelly has indeed called DeSean Jackson and told him not to worry about trade reports.

    Link to Tweet: https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/446321695746719744

    • Mike Roman

      I heard this on WIP just a short bit ago. I don’t know what it ultimately means though.

    • austinfan

      In other words, no one blew them away with an offer (which suggests that personnel guys around the league aren’t as impressed with DeSean as the media – Harvin garnered a 1st, 4th and an expensive new contract with dead money, DeSean would have no dead money for the team that traded for him and a 3 year deal).

      I’m sure DeSean got the message loud and clear, he’s not some untouchable superstar, and he’s not even in that much demand around the league (otherwise we’d be hearing rumors about teams prepared to trade a 1st rd pick).

      • Ben Hert

        “I’m sure DeSean got the message loud and clear, he’s not some untouchable superstar, and he’s not even in that much demand around the league (otherwise we’d be hearing rumors about teams prepared to trade a 1st rd pick).”

        Great point. Regardless of whether or not it was true, I don’t think anyone can disagree a giant humble pie could help Djax out a bit in regards to future contract talks.

    • Iskar36

      https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/446363530519121921

      This story can not end soon enough.

      • GermanEagle

        This. Is. Ridiculous.

  • austinfan

    Fans focus on stars, coaches on the team as a whole. To a fan, a player is irreplaceable, to a coach, you have to be ready to replace any player at a moment’s notice, if DeSean blew out his ACL, would Chip write off the 2014 season?

    Fans also exaggerate the importance of players, everyone made a big deal of TO, but guess what?
    Eagles 2002: 25 ppg, Thrash, Pinkson, Mitchell
    Eagles 2003: last 14 games, 26 ppg (McNabb started the season with a thumb injury)
    Eagles 2004: first 14 games, 26 ppg
    Eagles 2006: 25 ppg
    Point is that while TO had a great season, his overall impact on the offense was far less than advertised, and they got to the SB without him, the improvement on defense was the key.

    In the same fashion, Chip knows he has a talented player in DeSean, but he also knows that he’s a great offensive coach (at least in his mind) who can find ways to score without DeSean.

    This is why something can seem inconceivable to fans and some in the media but be quite reasonable to insiders – because inside the team the focus is on the team, not the player, and the question isn’t DeSean’s talent, but whether the team would be better without him (and with the resources he would garner).

    • RobNE

      they got to the SB without TO? whoa, wait a minute. does being the number one seed with the bye and home field….all that matters right? how did they get the number one seed?

      • Anders

        Did you note how we scored almost the same amount of points per game with TO as with Trash, Pinkston and Mitchell?

        • RobNE

          well I don’t know if ppg is the right barometer, but I remember thinking TO definitely took us to the next level that year. And he wouldn’t get thrown to the ground by NC DB’s if he had been there. So I take offense.

          I’m not saying this is scientific. But I believe it. Maybe in 2004 they did the V formation on the opponent’s 5 every game so PPG is skewed?!?

          • austinfan

            Actually you prove my point about perception and reality. TO was framed as the savior, and he put up big numbers, so no one noticed he also was thrown the ball a lot, which explains the big numbers.

            In the end, you want to see how the team performed, not how the player performed. Lot’s of guys put up big numbers on bad teams.

      • austinfan

        Same way they got it in 2002.

      • xeynon

        They had the number one seed and home field advantage the previous two seasons also.

    • holeplug

      YPP jumped almost a full yard from 2003 in games TO played. For a non QB he had a big impact. Team was stacked as hell tho and won both playoff games without him so they prolly even make the SB that year without the trade.

    • Maggie

      Many upvotes,

    • shah8

      Was going to mention this earlier, but forgot.

      Yes, scores might be the same with and without higher performance talent. The issue is, said performance is not robust against better talent. So while TO might not look to be a difference maker from a long way away, if you wanted to *win* big games, in the regular season and in the playoffs, against superior defenses, Terrell Owens will perform a lot closer to how he performs against mediocre or bad teams than, say… Eric Decker.

      There is a reason I harp on the whole talent part.

      • austinfan

        So that’s why the Steelers shut down the Eagles with TO that year?

        The reality is that skill players are overrated, period. Megatron hasn’t made Detroit unstoppable on offense, because he depends on both Stafford and the OL to do their jobs. And Megatron is heads and shoulders more talented than Djax.

        Or just look at the 2012 Eagles with Djax.

  • planetx1971

    The thing that gets me is Jimmy really didn’t float an innocent “theory ” out there & the thing took on a life of it’s own. I’d buy into that if he hadn’t been defending it like a momma bear on twitter & so forth. IMO for better or worse, sink or swim, he’s tied himself to this thing in a big way.

  • Mike Roman

    Ike Reese is reporting that Chip Kelly assured Desean that he will not be traded. I’m trying to find more info.

    • Mike Roman

      my bad.. missed the post below….

    • GermanEagle

      I posted his tweet below which turned out to be bogus. How the hell can Ike be so wrong?! Full of bull…?!

  • ACViking

    1. Beat Reporters: If a traditional media-based reporter writes something as “fact,” the report has sourced (or should have) that “fact” through two unrelated individuals. For example, a PDN reporter writes a story saying “The Eagles are Shopping Matt Barkley.” That reporter has received confirmation from two independent sources whom the reporter deems informed and reliable.

    2. Michael Irvin: T-LAW — have to disagree a bit with you on Irvin. He played for Johnson at UMiami, so Johnson knew him better than any other Cowboy when he took over from Tom Landry (which you know). And it’s true that Irvin was ultra-competitive on Sundays. But Irvin was also the locker-room leader for that team. He never missed practice. He was always working in the weight room. Irvin’s problem wasn’t what he did during the week — it was what he did during the week AFTER practice. (With respect, T-Law.)

    3. When to Trade a Player: There was once a Wall Street trader who had the reputation for always buying just a bit too late. Conversely, this same trader had a reputation for selling too early. His name was Bernard Baruch — maybe the greatest trader in American history, who by the age of 30 had amassed a fortune betting on the ups-and-downs of the sugar market in the late 19th century. He was a humble guy who’s advice always was sell early.

  • RobNE

    I am too lazy to find it, but in one of Jimmy’s chats after the article he said something like (paraphrasing): I don’t know anything but we can’t know for sure that there isn’t some problem in the locker room.

    this is evidence of the problem I see. Jimmy says it doesn’t make sense for the team, they had just resigned Cooper (who many think isn’t that good) and Maclin (*coming off major surgery) and he admits yes, logically this doesn’t make sense. then he doesn’t point to sources. Instead he points to (now I am referring to the chat) the absence of proof that we can never get in order to support his claim.

    I am in the camp with the folks who think Jimmy is to blame for this. It’s not just the echo chamber in my mind, it’s also the original writer who yelled wolf.

  • Vick or Nick

    Here’s what I think really went down:

    DeSean is slated to make 10.5 mill this year and counting 12.5 against salary cap.

    The cap numbers are not that important, Eagles still have 16mill and are not going after any big names this off season.

    Yes, he’s the highest paid on the team and wants more security. Eagles are unlikely to offer that. They do not want to start renegotiating after 2 years b/c other players will want to do the same.

    The Eagles best player (Shady) is making just 7.5 mill this year in comparison.

    Now back to the real deal:

    Eagles are listening to offers because that’s just what good teams do. I believe they would have traded DeSean if they got a Percy Harvin type return of (1st round pick, 3rd round pick, and 7th round pick). But they didn’t. So:

    Kelly has called D-Jack to let him know not to worry about trade speculation.

    Discussion over…

    Unless some team offers that type of package…

    • Kevin

      My theory… All of these rumors, speculations and reports start, GMs on another team look at the roster and think, we’ll maybe they would do it. They then get Howie on his bat phone and ask what is up. Howie being coy doesn’t answer the question and says what are you offering…. Like you said, good GM gauging value… The other GM throws out a third round pick… Howie giggles… Conversation ends and a source reports that the Eagles were offered a third round pick. Gunner believes it.

  • Mark Sitko

    Chip reached out to DeSean and old him he will NOT be traded – does that finally squash this beast of BS? of course not – now we get to read all the same rabble rousers say that the call was just a smoke screen to hide the true story – that DeSean is being traded…ridiculous…this story is looking more and more like BS and the further that bloggers/reporters carry it the more I (and I hope other readers) will hold it against you guys. STOP THIS STORY NOW. It is dead – anyone bringing it back up is only hurting the team because they have nothing better to write about. ENOUGH.

  • SteveH

    “If teams think the Eagles are willing to trade DeSean, his value goes down.”

    Here lies the biggest problem with the story getting legs. That and the possibility of Desean feeling slighted by the whole thing, which considering his personality would probably not be good.

    Should be interesting to see how it all plays out with reports coming out now that Chip called Desean and told him not to worry about a trade. Were the reports accurate at all in the first place? Are the Eagles backing off of a trade now because his potential value is shot due to everyone knowing they want a trade? Are the Eagles going to trade him anyhow? This could go in so many directions now.

  • Mike Roman

    At this point I want them to trade him so we can start speculating about other things.

  • planetx1971

    I’m thinking it was Kempski that broke into Deseans place. This is all an elaborate scheme to take the heat off that situation.

  • Stevo

    I actually appreciated Jimmy’s original piece and the other “speculative” stories that came out — especially the ones that were clear about the “smoke.” To Tommy’s points, it was all pointing (and re-pointing) to the fact that the rumors were valid. However, this “he said, he said” stuff about whether Chip called or not drives me nuts.

    From all the hints, speculations, etc., it appears clear to me that DeSean is a goner, if not this year, then next. And we should expect to draft a WR early this year. It pains me to say this, but I think the Eagles’ brass have made up their minds already.

    • RC5000

      The Eagles need a WR or even 2 regardless of the speculation about Desean Jackson.

  • barneygoogle

    Maybe the Eagles are dangling DeSean out there to send him a message–about growing up and acting like a pro. He’ll never find a better offense for his skills than this one. He ought to appreciate what Kelly has done for him.
    I’d say they’d be looking to trade him next year when his salary escalates to 12 million, and they know what Maclin can do in this offense. They won’t pay both guys big bucks. I’d bet on Maclin.

    • GENETiC-FREAK

      What did Chip do for him? You make it sound like DJax was a nobody n Chip made him

      • suthrneagle

        Let`s see…first maior contribution was when CK demoted Jackson in preseason(wake up call?),showing him that he`s not the all-everything he thinks himself to be and turning him into a somewhat well rounded player(blocking,playing hard when the plays aren`t for him(if it helps the team then in fact the plays are all for him as a team player,are they not),helping him to mature(?)
        though we did see a hissy fit on the side lines a few times ,did we not…
        So,no,DJ was not a nobody before Kelly,but definitely now better and playing in a system that gives him a better chance to be able to make the most of his potential.

      • barneygoogle

        Are you kidding? Jackson had by far the best and most consistent season of his entire career. Kelly moved him around, slotted him, put him the backfield, utilized him beautifully in the short and intermediate passing game. Much less jamming one-on-one at the line. A shame DeSean can’t enjoy what a great system this is for him. WRs should pray to be drafted by Kelly…
        Anywhere else DeSean is merely a deep threat who gets a home run now and then, but mostly gets pushed around by DBs, and disappears against good competition–the Andy Reid Jackson.

        • D3FB

          Djax had 2 more touchdowns and only 41 fewer offensive yards in 2009, so you’re wrong.

          • barneygoogle

            No, I’m not wrong. Anyone who thinks DeSean played better in 2009 knows NOTHING about football.

  • mksp

    At this point if we don’t draft one of ODB, Brandin Cooks or Kyle Fuller with our first pick, I’m going to be disappointed. Those are my guys.

    From Walter Football:

    “Cornerback Kyle Fuller stood on his combine numbers, but stood out in position drills, catching everything thrown to him. I’m told prior to the workout, Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator Bill Davis made a point of introducing Fuller to the teams head coach, Chip Kelly.”

    • ACViking

      Ah, the old “introduce the player to the head coach” trick . . . classic Eagles smoke screen

      • mksp

        Its a double-smoke screen! Everyone will assume its a smoke screen, until we draft KF!

  • wahdoo

    This whole situation kind of reminds me of Ricky Watters. I was young when he played for the Eagles, and he was my absolute favorite player (until I met him at a fan day thing; TY Detmer was way cooler haha). Desean and Watters remind me of each other–Watters started out sour, but ended up being a pretty good player for us in the long run. Just wasn’t much of a public speaker.

    We let him walk to the Seahawks rather than pay him another big contract. He was getting older, wanted a lot of money, and had a negative stigma in Philadelphia that he couldn’t quite shake with good play. Sound familiar?

    Idk what happened to Watters after he left. I had a new hero wearing #5 by then. This is my long-winded way of saying I’m with Lawlor on this one: Chip knows what he’s doing. We’ll see if it works.

    • A Roy

      Negative stigma? For who? For what?

  • A_T_G

    Well, if anyone is tired of talking about Jackson trade rumors, this might foster a conversation ’round these parts.

    http://birdbreakdown.com/2014/03/03/qb-velocity-rankings-nick-foles-has-an-objectively-strong-arm/

    • Ark87

      Ok, listen ATG, I’m not done with the Jackson trade rumors. I have objective proof that Chip Kelly is literally chasing Desean Jackson out of Philly:

      http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/901/344/original.jpg

      • A_T_G

        The image won’t load for me, but I know what it is. How did this go on for so long without that resurfacing?

        • Ark87

          yeah it won’t load for me either, I have to click on the link. I uploaded it from my hard drive at work to discus on Kapadia’s site. So ofcourse it can’t draw the image from it’s own database…discus…look at that face, DRUNK WITH POWER, but seriously..they seem to get along just fine.
          http://binaryapi.ap.org/50c29e4e8cc0416c9db83fd8fbd840f2/460x.jpg

          • SteveH

            Chip is so awesome. He would be the perfect uncle.

          • Mac

            Quick get on the phone with Kempski!

    • shah8

      Radar measured ball velocity /= arm strength. I’m not quite sure why. Some people have suggested that the rpm on the spin is also a big factor.

      But no, Nick Foles doesn’t have a strong arm.

  • http://iKillRats.com/ Charlie Kelly

    “He made the case for why DeSean could be dealt, but also explained why that wouldn’t make sense. Jimmy had no agenda.” his agenda is for attention.. thats why every news reporter is champing at the bit to break a big story….. that might have zero substance to it.. lol..

  • A_T_G

    Really, no one wants to click the link? Okay. Nick Foles has a stronger arm than Geno Smith, Russell Wilson, or Cam Newton.

    http://birdbreakdown.com/2014/03/03/qb-velocity-rankings-nick-foles-has-an-objectively-strong-arm/

    (Is what is referred to in the vernacular as trolling?)

    • Andy124

      Yeah, but how fast you can throw the ball isn’t a very good measure of arm strength. You simply can’t put much stock in raw numbers…

      • A Roy

        So true. It really depends on how high above sea level you are. My understanding is the QBs named above were at sea level and Foles was on the moon. So there.

        • A_T_G

          Thanks guys. I needed to read about something else for a change. I was kinda hoping for a diatribe explaining why Foles really doesn’t have truly functional minimal effectively sub-par requisite lower quartile franchise QB level strength, but this was still a nice reprieve.

      • deshawnbentley

        Actually there is a correlation. For example, if one can throw a baseball 110+ yards, then he is essentially using the same arm strength which allows him to pitch at 95+ mph. Also if you can pitch 97 mph you can throw well above 100 yards.

        So in relation to football, throwing a ball 57 mph should correlate to a given yardage

        • Andy124

          There’s more than correlation, there’s causation. I was being facetious.

    • A Roy

      I read this the other day but didn’t want to get shah’s panties in a bunch.

      • shah8

        I had long since noted that when Allbright mentioned this and the original site it came from, and I bet this site took the same info.

        It’s not really anything that’s new, and Allbright uses it as a floor. Basically, if you *can’t* throw it 55mph, then you obviously aren’t going to succeed. I’m more dubious, because the number of people surveyed is so low, and there are so many people who are in different ranks…Kellen Moore, for example, throws for a high mph than Tyrod Taylor or John Skelton. Nick Foles is a whole 2 mph higher than Joe Flacco. Christian Ponder throws with more zip, more often than Foles, and he’s like seven mph less. I’m really not sure what’s up with the data, because it doesn’t match with game performance.

    • Neil

      Those numbers are interesting, but you don’t really see them when Nick throws unless he just really never lets it rip.

    • GEAGLE

      This isn’t talked about because people don’t know how to interpret the data yet..usually it’s all over the map, and crazy stuff happens like for example( Chad Penningtons arm measuring higher then Mike Vick, I’m totally making it up to make a point)…so can’t read too much into it

  • GEAGLE

    People are worried about Deseans attitude and his teammates but don’t mention guys like Kemdrick and Kelce sticking up for him and talking about how much better he is…and after these rumors, by the time the draft is over, when he looks around and sees all the high octane weapons around, I’m sure it’s going to hit him pretty quickly that he better mind his Ps and Qs next year!

    I absolutely don’t by or a second that we want to trade him and would be ok with a 3rd…I think they are absolutely willing to listen, and if you surprise us with what is being offered, he will be dealt..either way. I don’t give a crap one way or another, just build me my damn defense and you offensive geeks can do whatever Yous want :) I just don’t believe for one second we are trying to trade him

    And I don’t care how responsible Jimmy presented it or what he heard, he ain’t new to this city, by now he better damn well KNOW that if you are going to write some shit like that in a city you are unleashing a shit storm, and for one god damn summer, I would like to enjoy the direction of this team, and the energy in nthe locker room without the bullshit media creating drama..

    You gonna write some ish that will start a riot in this city, then you better know what the F you are talking about, you better have some damn good intel, and you better get your damn source on record, or STFU and sit on it, because you know how this city works..and being “responsible” isn’t enough in Philadelphia..if he was knew to this city, I would understand..but this is fucking unacceptable..you hear something. Present some damn facts or keep it to your damn self, do a all 22, watch some prospect footage and find some other damn ways to get clicks…

    • Flyin

      I don’t think you were forceful enough with your message. More roids!

      • GEAGLE

        I don’t even care about trading him or not…I care that this serves NO one any damn good. I don’t need the media lowering the value of one of the few TRADEable assets we have. ODOYLE rules!!!

        • D3FB

          Is it the wardens fault that the people in the asylum are crazy?

        • Flyin

          How exactly is the media lowering his trade value? Don’t you think the Eagles have control over this situation?

          The Eagles are remaining to be quiet, perhaps to draw up more interest from more teams to get more value in offers from other teams.

        • A_T_G

          If the media is lowering his value with this story, how does that fit with your theory that this was all concocted by his agent to increase his value?

          As I said this morning, if his agent is highlighting the fact that he is possibly not worth a third rounder to other teams in an attempt to increase his value, the agent should be fired.

  • Flyin

    I don’t how the DJax situation will turn out, but I do know the Flyers game last night was awesome. Giroux scored with 4 seconds left in overtime against the Blackhawks… http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=580577

  • GEAGLE

    If Justin Ellis has good arm length, and Charecter, he will be a prime candidate to back up Bennie Logan

    • mksp

      You can look these things up you know. His measurables are less than spectacular.

      http://mockdraftable.com/player/4436/

      • D3FB

        But if he looks things up how can he continue to make 50 half baked claims everyday?

        • mksp

          If you keep repeating it, someday it might come true!

      • Insomniac

        He has the same measurements as Vince Wilfork. I know I posted them before but I don’t feel like digging.

    • Insomniac

      Prime candidate to compete with Bennie*

  • Frencheaglesfan

    Excuse-me, it appears there is a new report about kelly saying to jackson he’s not going anywhere, could you guy explain me again why you know he is thee worst human being and a locker room cancer? Seriously no need to be a genius to see thaat even if jackson seems to be annoying sometime with his personnality he is a winner, he gives his heart on the field, teammates find these more than enough and I’m sure they like him.

    So now, as I said I’m sure the Eagles FO checked the market for him just to have an idea as would do any smart FO for every player except maybe Mccoy,Johnson,Foles,Cox,Boykin. But between that and he will not on be in the roster, trade or cut, trade for a 3rd or 4th round pick there is a huge gap, Tommy and the others you were just fooled and we lost a lot of time in this story, Let’s go back to the real buisness and draft prospects.

  • bwin29

    I asked Jimmy about this on Philly.com live chat and he hinted that a source did indeed contribute to the speculation in his article.

    • Insomniac

      I have to ask…why didn’t you ask him the more important question which is “Where’s my H2H shows Kempski!!?”.

  • Insomniac

    So..lets talk about something besides Djax and Jimmy K. Chip was at the FSU pro day (along with the rest of the league). He kept his eyes on LB Christian Jones. Jones might be dropping in stock after his pro day though.

    “Jones struggled in positional drills, showing less-than-ideal flexibility. He is currently rated as the No. 123 overall prospect and a likely mid-round pick.”

    Benjamin as our Jimmy Graham?

    “At 6-5, 240 pounds, Benjamin has generated some buzz as a potential “Joker” tight end conversion. In adding two pounds and posting an impressive 17 reps of 225 pounds Tuesday, those projections could gain steam for some.

    Whether as a tight end or wide receiver, Benjamin’s length and strong hands certainly made him one to watch Tuesday.

    Benjamin enjoyed a “pretty good positional workout overall,” a league source on hand told NFLDraftScout.com, soaring high to pluck passes easily. He did drop two passes, though one was characterized as a “bad ball.”

    Benjamin, a potential late first round pick, is not an explosive athlete but accelerates smoothly, showing the ability to track down passes that initially appear out of his reach.”

    • Flyin

      DJax for a late 1st rounder (SF,NE) for Benjamin. Sounds good to me.

      • GermanEagle

        Where have you been the last 36 hours??? The Eagles won’t get anything better than a 3rd round pick. #stopdreamin

        • Flyin

          According to GEAGLE, his stock is dropping so fast… he’ll be lucky to be traded for a practice squad player who is 2 yrs removed from football.

          • Insomniac

            Marvin McNutt?

          • Flyin

            Got Size!

  • GermanEagle

    Did you guys see when I joked about being happy that the Eagles signed their two special teams aces (Maragos and Braman) to deals not longer than 3 years because there won’t be any special teams much longer?!

    Well, the owners will decide to move the kickoff to the 40 yard line at the owners meeting next week…good bye NFL…!

    • Flyin

      And your source… on the decision that hasn’t been voted on…yet?

      • GermanEagle
        • Flyin

          My point being, they have NOT decided to move it to the 40 yard line. You said, ” the owners will decide to move the kickoff to the 40 yard line at the owners meeting next week…good bye NFL…!”

          That sentence and your reaction comes across as they have decided. If you had no agenda, you would have said “the owners will decide, whether or not, to move the kickoff to the 40 yard line at the owners meeting next week”.

          • GermanEagle

            Are you an English teacher? I know they have not decided on this yet but my gut’s telling me that they will. Clever, ha?!

  • makoto

    Although I cannot tell which news is trusted and which is not regarding DeSean’s story, it is hard to believe that he is on the trading block. Yes, he is not the best employee, but teams do not trade special players lightly, I think. And I don’t see any evidence that Chip or Howie is annoyed by DeSean so much to think about such a special player.

    This seems to me a typical story created by a blogger or “journalist.” Actually, I have been a fan of Jimmy K’s writing, but I lost respect for him. I can see that he was thinking about being controversial or famous by creating this “story.” This is not what a respectable analyst does. He basically became one of the guys who create rumors out of nothing, for me. He kept spinning the story by saying that Howie did not say he will never trade DeSean away. OK. I think the same thing can be easily said about Shady. He causes a trouble here and there, and he is at the top of his game but he might not last forever. Why not trading him away. Ask Howie if he is considering to trade him away, and if he does not deny right away, you can say that “Oh he did not deny trading away Shady.” Maybe I am wrong and DeSean is actually on the trading block, but it does not make sense to me at all, other than thinking that this story is created by idiotic blogger who want to be famous or something.

    And I think Tommy was too soft for him. I think if this story was created by a guy at ESPN or something, he would have trashed the story. I think he was a bit too “understanding” because it was his buddy creating this “story”. I was kind of disappointed by that, too.

    And what is disturbing is that this story might mess up the mind of DeSean and actually hurt the team. Again I cannot tell what is correct or what the Eagles think, but if this is just a stupid story created by a blogger, and actually messes the chemistry of the team, thank you very much for your job.

    • Flyin

      I will let you in on a little secret… Jimmy and Tommy have a clear mission to destroy the Eagles. They are not just trying to drive down Desean’s trade value, they are in deep planning stages of destroying the value of the team as a whole.

      They hope to trade a bag of Funyuns and a case of PBR to owner Jeffrey Lurie for the sole rights of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2016.

      *I have insider “K”nowledge.*

  • CrackSammich

    This Jackson saga has exceeded my Millennial attention span. Next.

    • Flyin

      More crack?

  • makoto

    I just want to make clear that I don’t think Jimmy is Anti-DeSean or he has an agenda about DeSean. But my guess is that he though about becoming famous for creating this story (he kept pushing this story on his website, which sort of disgusts me). Of course, many things can be possible, like trading away Foles, or Shady, or Boykin, but I respect the people who take a step back and think hard before publishing those sensitive issues. Other type of analysts probably do not think too hard about consequences. Jimmy fell to that second category, who I ignore.

  • Eagle Eye

    I am simply amazed that there is talk of trading this guy. Yes, I can get the “culture clash” of a guy like Chip Kelly and a guy like Desean, who hails from Long Beach, CA… but anyone with a brain should be able to realize that it is precisely Desean’s attitude and culture that has made him such an incredible/unique talent. Yeah Kelly, you could find a yes man out there to kiss your ass, but is he going to have such above the class talent? Get over yourself already, and be happy you have such a weapon. The ability to work with other people is crucial to being a good manager. Kelly is showing bad signs here.