Some More WR Talk
Posted: April 4th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 173 Comments »I’m going to be talking a lot about WR prospects in the coming days. I’ll have posts on most of the top guys. Why? The Eagles just made the DeSean move and WR is very topical. But it also happens to be the best position in the draft. Even with DeSean, I’d be talking a lot about WR prospects because there is a decent chance that could be the highest rated player on the board at some point in the draft.
Let me make this clear. I do not think the Eagles have to have to address WR in the 1st round. That’s “Do Not”. The team can go for whoever the highest rated player is. I do think the Eagles need to add a WR in one of the first 4 rounds.
Yesterday I wrote about Odell Beckham, because I think he could be a great fit. Today I am going to talk about some big WRs, Mike Evans of Texas A&M and Kelvin Benjamin of FSU.
The Eagles brought Evans in for a visit. My guess is that they are trying to decide just how much they like him. Evans could go in the Top 10 or he could slide down into the 15 range. I don’t see him going much beyond that. If Evans does slide, do the Eagles move up for him? His size and skills would seem to make him a player that Chip Kelly would have interest in.
I don’t think the Eagles would aggressively go after him, but if the price was reasonable, maybe they would move up for Evans.
I don’t like Benjamin very much. I’ll be highly disappointed if the Eagles draft him anywhere. I see him as a LB trying to play receiver. Worked great in college, but won’t in the NFL.
I posted my thoughts on the players over at ScoutsNotebook.
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I’ll write about other receivers and other prospects. You can ask about certain names, but I’m way behind schedule (thanks to moving) and I’ll get to prospects as fast as I can.
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OBJ and Lee are my favs, assuming Evans is out of reach.
Lee scares me…Injured players in college tend to keep getting injured in the pros. Love him as a prospect, not sure his knees will hold up though.
That is definitely a concern of mine too. I think he’s pro-ready though, which is why I like him. I would prefer Beckham over him.
Can we all agree a consistent nickname for Odell Beckham Jr. I keep reading OBJ, ODB, OCD and it’s highly confusing..
OBJ makes most sense, but a lot of people say ODB (therefor the O’l dirty bastard jokes)
But OBJ might offend the female Eagles fans on here…
Not as long as he isn’t lined up across from Cox.
It’s so refreshing to see things return to normal here at Igglesblitz! : )
GE throws deep to a wide-open A_T_G. TD, 69 yards!
I was writing it out each time, but ODB has a nice ring to it – I will call him that if we draft him…
Obe? Obec?
Let’s just call him Odie.
glad I’m not the only one!
When I had watched tape on the WRs before Odell just didn’t stand out to me, but your post yesterday helped turn that first impression around. For a player playing at that same size I was far more impressed with Cooks’ tape. I also really like Lee – between Evans and Benjamin I liked Benjamin more (very excited to read you post on Evans), but I am not a scout by any means – is Evans the kind of guy that just looks slow on tape? He did not seem any more athletic than someone like Ertz…like he is a TE trying to play WR – no?
Mike Evans had a much better combine than Benjamin if you didnt watch the combine and just look at the numbers. But watching it told a different story. Evans looked so awkward running his 40, and even though Mayock and those guys gushed over him in the gauntlet drill, he weaved above and below the line just like they knock other WRs for doing. He isnt a smooth athlete. He isnt a natural athlete. And his combine numbers do not show up on the field.
He doesnt get open regularly. So many of his receptions come from Johnny running around for 10 seconds. Meanwhile Evans has 3 guys following him, and he still shields them all out and goes up to make the grab over all 3. Thats impressive. And he is physically imposing enough to make a lot of those grabs in the NFL. Just not with such incredible regularity. He will have to play within an offense. Because he will have a QB playing within an offense. And he will have to be able to get open quickly on the route as it was designed.
As I see it, he has elite ability to come down with a jump ball and that is second to none in this draft. He doesnt have much else going for him. Poor athlete lacking maturity, lots of big WRs in this draft. Sure the eagles have sniffed around him a lot. What we dont know is whether thye like what they smell. I definitely see him “falling” and I dont see us trading up for him. He isnt talented enough to warrant that. Im not even sure if he would be our guy at 22.
Benjamin- worse combine numbers but much more smooth and natural athlete. That translates to the field. He does get open. And is still second only to Evans in this draft at shielding with his body and making contested grabs. Also excellent ball skills to go up and get it.
Another aspect that is underrated as people focus on his inconsistent hands is how clutch he is. He made some giant catches in the biggest game in CFB right at clutch times.
While he lacks speed, interestingly he caught a greater percentage of 20+ yard completions than both Sammy Watkins and Marquise Lee combined. In fact, he more than doubled their percentage.
His route tree was much more diverse than Mike Evans’, and he threatens every level of the defense.
He needs a lot of polish. But he is a more complete player than Evans.
Id have no problem taking him at 22. I have it narrowed down to 2 guys with that pick. Ealy and Benjamin. I think Ealy will be the guy though.
WR at 22?
After thinking we should get a DL
Im starting to think we should address the LB position.
Anders pointed out to me that we spent a first pick on Cox, (I disgracefully forgot) So we gotta give him time. Thorton played good last year, logan is a second year. We got jenkins and Wolff is a second year. We have to solid players at corner.
So maybe we go LB first round, Take advantage of Demeco Ryans still being there and trent cole.
I was looking at Barr, and Christian Kirksey in later rounds. Kirksey sounds like a steal to me. Perhaps mosely.
Like I said, I think our guy will be Ealy. And we worked him out at OLB.
Ealys a LB?! Lol. true!
I had no idea. ok imma check him out
Thanks!
Yeah Eagles were at the Mizzou pro day and put him through LB drills. I cant remember but Im thinking Chip was in attendance for that one.
His combine 40 time wasnt anything exceptional, but he improved it at his pro day. One report mentioned he was in the 4.5s.
Also his combine 3 cone drill was one of the best if not the best for DL and maybe even LBs.
And every single combine measurement of his was very close to Aldon Smiths. Ealy is slightly bigger. He tested slightly better in some areas and slightly worse in others but all were very close. They are almost clones.
Ealy is a heck of an athlete. He just needs to show he can learn to cover a bit. But his limitations wont be physical.
I am now on this wagon. If we can get a Aldon Smith like guy. Then get Christian Kirksey in the 3-4th round. I would be super excited. Combine that with a stellar WR choice in the 2/4th rounds. Then go CB, FS to end the draft.
Thanks Hazleguy!
I don’t think Kirksey fits well in a 34. If you watch his tape he was the 43 Will for Iowa but they used him out wide, either over the slot receiver or splitting the difference between the receiver and the line. That makes him a good space player, but I have serious questions about his ability to play in traffic, take on blocks, read a play from inside the tackle box. His best projection is probably as a 43 Will that allows him to either play in more space or has him protected by the DL in a see ball, get ball role.
Prince Shembo?
He would be a decent backup OLB for us.
Yeah, I could see that.
We gotta take Barr or Ealy first right?
Shembo’s ceiling to me is probably OLB #3. Not just this year but in the future. He’s a guy that is pretty well rounded and can be used to sub your starters out to get them breathers and have as an extra rusher in nickel situations, but if he ever becomes your starter you will be looking to upgrade.
I love Barr, but don’t think he makes it to 22. Ealy to me is a 43 end. I personally don’t think he can make the transition. The guy I would love us to take is Marcus Smith. He has the ability to drop and cover. He lined up over the slot, in a 2 point, in a three point, and as a DT in nickel looks. He is a good pass rusher, who still needs a little development after converting from QB after his freshman year. He would be ideal to mix in with Cole and learn from him this year in the hopes that he’s ready to be the man in 2015. Attachou also has the ability to become a starting ROLB in a year, however something about him reminds me of Anthony Spencer. After that it’s mostly just guys who would be contributors (Kennard, Powell, Murphy, Shembo,Jeffcoat) rather than starters. I don’t like Dee Ford.
So u think If Barr isnt there at 22…should we go WR? or take Smith?
I like Smith enough to take at 22. If Barr is gone I look to take: Mosley, Martin, Haha, ODB, Cooks, Fuller, Deone, Ward, Smith.
I think Smith is a good reason to trade back, think he might be available in late 1st round.
Trade 1st for SF’s 1st & 3rd & 7th so they can grab Cooks/ODB, take Smith & Latimer w/ their picks? I’m down.
What’s your take on Demarcus Lawrence?
He projects better at DE than OLB to me. I think he could probably play OLB but a 43 team will likely value him higher than we will.
That makes sense, I really appreciate hearing what you think when people are talking about draft picks.
Thanks, I try to help keep people informed based off tape study, and my knowledge of the game, so they don’t build their opinions around a 20 second highlight reel on ESPN while Kiper says player XYZ is totally gonna be the next big thing (when last week it was player ABC), and then you have five commenters who voraciously swear by the player based off that and a 3 minute highlight tape. They then throw around scouting phrases and can influence people into thinking they know what they are talking about.
I really like Marcus Smith as well. Really natural athlete, good bend, can set an edge based on tape I’ve seen.
On top of those thing, the one trait that sticks out the most to me, is he understands football. So many times you see players who are great athletes running around out there playing see ball get ball. The guys that really impress me are the ones that could go back to their high schools and coordinate the defense or offense tomorrow.
If you like Smith and haven’t done so yet, watch this past Sugar Bowl. You can watch in its entirety on YouTube. He really puts on a display of all of what he can do in that game. I have to agree with our resident FB below in that what impresses me most is that you can see he gets it and he’s only been playing that side of ball for what 3yrs? You could literally watch that one game and not have to look at any other tape to figure out if he’s capable of something you didn’t see in that game.
A lot of people want to take him with our 2nd pick, but I just don’t see him as a late 2nd and lasting until 54. I see him as an early 2nd/fringe 1st. If Barr is long gone, I wouldn’t be mad taking him at 22, but think we could move back maybe 5 spots or so and pick him up along with an extra 3rd or 4th.
I think you and I are on the same exact level as far as who we like, and don’t like. I too see Ealy as a 4-3 DE, possibly even 3-4 DE with some weight. But I don’t like him at all standing up. It just doesn’t look natural to him & for a guy that showed athleticism in the combine, that doesn’t show up nearly as much on game tape. He’s not a guy that’s gonna chase down the play either. Which is something you want from an athletic weak side backer. I want that guy making plays in the backfield at all costs, even from the backside.
I love Marcus Smith. If we want versatile, he is where it’s at. I was so impressed by him after finding out he’d only been playing defense for a few years. Not only can he do the things you mentioned above, but he can do them well and doesn’t look out of place. I tell anyone that asks about him to watch this past Sugar Bowl & follow 91 closely because he will be lined up all over in 2pt, 3pt, DE, OLB, ILB, DT, left side, right side, etc. Now he played the past year heavier than his first year on defense and his combine weight. I don’t know if I like him at 250 where he played early on and you could see a difference in his quickness, or at 260+, where you can see a slight dip in quickness but a gain in strength (twice at DT in Sugar Bowl he took on 2 OL & got major push upfield). Either way, he’s a player that doesn’t need to come off the field & I see him as a guy that will only get better.
If you don’t mind me asking, what don’t you like about Dee Ford? I’m curious if we share the same concerns.
1. He played LDE. You use your best pass rusher at RDE.
2. His early season film is pretty bad. He doesn’t have a great assortment of moves. I think if you run at him all day he will wear down and quit.
3. He has great burst, but I just don’t see much else.
4. Measurables.
Yep, we’re on same page there too. I don’t like that he almost exclusively played the left side. I think that weakens his stock as his stats & successsuccess came against collegiate RTs. Of course his burst is gonna beat a RT as their typically run blockers and not as quick footed and agile as LTs. The few times I noticed him on the right side he was stymied. I also don’t like that he tends to shoot up field with no real feel as to run/pass and allows holes to open up like Moses parting the red sea. Very Babin like and I see him much the same as a DE in a system that utilizes a wide front. He may be able to develop into something, but it’s gonna take a couple years before he’s a 3 down player. I also prefer someone with better size.
I mean, Barwin and Cole do expect to start… Id think so right?
Barwin is our starter for sure on the left side. Cole would most likely start and we could bring Smith along below him for a year unless he just overtakes Cole at some point during the season and you just can’t justify sitting him in favor of Cole.
I don’t like Benjamin….. at all; if we drafted him (especially in the first) I would have major reservations, but i would trust the FO decisions. I like Evans more, but I’m leaning towards trading back with our first pick (either til later in the 20’s, or early second round options- no later than top 5 in round 2) and gathering more picks. Would prefer going WR in round 2 over round 1, but we’ll just have to wait and see what happens
Also, I hate that the draft is 3 weeks later this year; knowing the draft would happen (normally) in just over 2 weeks is much easier to deal with over waiting a month plus a few days………..
Glad I’m not the only one that likes Cooks. If we can trade back in the first round and grab Cooks plus a few picks…im thrilled.
One of those First round prospected guys could maybe fall to us in the second round. maybe not Cooks.
So who else would be comparable that we could take in the second round?
The WR I like in the second is Jordan Mathews. Good blend of size, strength, speed, hands, route running. He can play outside or in slot. Some people think he needs to work on his high pointing of jump balls, but that’s only because he doesn’t do it all that much. Not like he’s incapable. He’s a guy that can get you RAC off a screen, take a slant pass & accelerate the distance or make a one handed over shoulder catch with a defender in his pocket. He lacks short yardage burst, but makes up for it in his ability to hit his passing gear elusively to blow by defenders. He can take a hit and is a willing/able blocker, but could use some work there, as is the case with many collegiate players.
I don’t quite get the deal with OBJ yet, not a lot really pops in the highlights vs college competition to me, which is acceptable in the SEC I suppose. Size and speed didn’t stick out. Occasionally flashed some explosive movements, but not a regular thing. Highlight reels don’t let you see him run many routes, but the one they did show was sick. Seems to have great hands. Looked to be quite adept at tracking under-thrown balls. Seems like a good prospect, just hard to get excited about.
He plays much larger than his 5’11” size. He runs with the ball like an in the trenches, north/south running back that can shed defenders and run through tackles. He’s also extremely adept at tracking and adapting to the throw and can go up and snatch it out of the air with the best of them, despite being a shade under 6′. Not as fluid an athlete as Cooks, but I think he compares better to Steve Smith than Cooks as some say. Tommy compared him to Victor Cruz, but I think he plays tougher & bigger than Cruz.
What about the late riser Cody Latimer from Indiana? He intrigues me. I see him as a 2nd round talent but he’s moving up the mocks
I would avoid any lsu offense player at all costs. I can’t even Recall one who was much good on the pro level
I wanted Reuben Randle and he is looking like a player for NYG.
I think he has a breakout season this year.
Bill Bil-a-CHEAT is at it again!!
Pats sign Pat Chung? Come on they’re not stupid. They saw the missed assignments and missed tackles last year. Billacheat just wants to know about Chips secrets.
I actually think you’re right here.
I think your right. But I respect Bill. I love his moving the extra point back idea.
Plus I believe every coach spys on the other teams.
I like that he recorded our practice and used it to beat us in the 2004 Super Bowl. Then got away with it by losing draft picks and fine.
Now people still consider him to be legendary.
I definitely was sad after that superbowl. I think every eagles fan was of course.
I walked back to my house. the wind was blowing gently. Tears were frozen.
I just don’t think it was that much of a factor. We had a chance to win that game.
It could have been a huge factor, but without that knowledge. I lean on the side of no excuse. We lost.
Did they know every play we called? they surely didn’t stop every play.
Bill got fined. Lost a pick. But I feel it was more of a reaction of the league to the outrage over it and the level of spying he performed.
I simply didn’t look much into it. I consider it to be part of the game.
But your right. Its a shame.
The second half saw their offense come alive by knowing every blitz and coverage we called. They burned us with the perfect screen for every blitz we sent. It was maddening. And they’re cheating made it so.
That being said we still had a chance to win. Our oline couldn’t block, McNabb was wildly inaccurate and sucking wind from running in circles behind the LOS, Pinkston sat out w cramps, Westbrook did very little, and god help our coach for being the only coach at any level that refuses to implement a hurry up offense when down 2 scores with 4 min left. None of those things had anything to do with cheating.
Mark Simoneau helped them greatly in their screen game as I recall.
Not to be a dick, but I think you recall incorrectly. Trotter took over for Simoneau early in the year and was the starting MLB in the super bowl. If you look it up you’ll see that he did not play a single snap in that game. The LBs were Trotter, Keith Adams, Dhani Jones and Nate Wayne. Simoneau was purely a special teamer at that point.
And I would expect us to do the same thing for other players/teams. It happens with every team– that’s the “fun” of this league!
I’ve been watching game tape on the “top guys” and based on scheme fit for Eagles here is where I would rank them:
1. Sammy Watkins (duh can play in any scheme. Most complete WR available)
2. Marquis Lee (besides injury he fits Chip style WR, excellent route runner, explosive after the catch, much better blocker than size indicates, consistently gets open)
3. Odell Beckham Jr (tommy gave a really good review on him already.
4. Brandon Cooks (similar to Lee but even more explosive, plays bigger than his size, explosive is an understatement. Will not be caught from behind. Incredible make you miss moves, decent blocker but not much in that area, has a DeSean type personality, states “he can be better than desean” that might be true but still a flag that he is making these statements rather than being humble.
5. Mike Evans (I’ll preface by saying I liked him on tape. Has a surprising burst and second gear that takes DBs by surprise. Catches the ball well. Can make tough catches and spectacular grabs. Didn’t see him run a variety of routes. Could be Texas AM system. But didn’t see entire route tree. I don’t think Eagles have serious interest. Call it a gut feeling. I think it’s smokescreen for the guys they are really interested in 2. 3. And 4. Also Evans will be long gone by time Eagles pick so this entire comment might be irrelevant)
Just curious, but what would be the benefit of “smokescreening” a player you would have to trade up for?
False interest. Anything to get teams to think they are interested in a certain type of player. Not necessarily Evans. Show teams we are looking for bigger receivers. Which may be true. But then again we might take lee cooks or obj
Hides our true targets so other teams don’t jump ahead of us. Also, let’s say we really want a WR other than Evans, making other teams think we are set on getting him, even via a trade up if need be, might make another team pull the trigger on a trade up for Evans thus forcing our guy to drop back further. Or they really like him…either way this time of year is all about false information. The less people know about who you want to draft the better. Imagine what a leg up on the competition you’d have if you knew what all the other teams targets were. That’s be extremely beneficial so every team smoke screens interest to throw others off and keep it unpredictable.
Everything I’ve read about Cooks says that he’s actually the Anti-DeSean, personality wise. Him saying he can be better wasn’t boasting, if you read the entire quote. At least not how it sounds when you only read that one part.
Otherwise, good info.
What’s your take on Lee’s speed/explosiveness/RAC ability? I keep hearing about how he’s an excellent route runner and pro-ready, but I’m not sure yet how to view him in terms of speed, athleticism, and potential ceiling.
Agree on Benjamin. no, no, no. Poor athlete getting talked about because he’s big. But he runs, and worse, turns, like an even bigger man. No. no way, no.
“I don’t like Benjamin very much. I’ll be highly disappointed if the Eagles draft him anywhere. I see him as a LB trying to play receiver. ” – Yup
If your gonna go big at WR in the first two rounds. Mike Evans is the guy. His jump ball ability is enough.
You think we are gonna give Ifeany Momah a big enough cahnce for him to have a bigger role?
Id love to see him get better, then we could focus on getting a guy like ODB or Cooks.
Momah needs to learn how to run a route, get separation, and catch before we can think about him having any kind of role
Woah, don’t get ahead of yourself. Momah needs to learn how to get off the line of scrimmage before those!
I would prefer Robert Herron later in the draft to Brandin Cooks in the first, if we are going for a smaller wide receiver that is. From what I’ve seen he’s a very tough wide receiver with good speed but he does need to improve his blocking. He should also be an improvement in the return game.
Some good stuff in here:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/70873538/nfl-draft-rumors-kyle-fuller-marquis-lee-kony-ealy-kyle-van-noy
Includes some notes on how AWESOME Kyle Fuller is. Still my favorite CB.
Nice find. I really want Ealy, but that is a bit hard breaking consider I thought he was perfect in a versatile role for us (better version of what Trent Cole did last year playing both OLB, 4-3 DE in some looks and even 3-4 DE)
I know this has been beaten to death, but the Eagles should eventually end their silence re DeSean especially since they are now under investigation by the NFLPA for possible smearing:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/04/nflpa-wants-to-know-if-eagles-smeared-desean-jackson/
NO – that’s precisely why they’ve been silent. Anything they say can and will be used against them by those who are determined to slam them for it. Having said absolutely nothing, the Eagles are still going to be “investigated” by this clown. Again, defamation laws being what they are, and considering the interstate (and international!) presence of the media, there’s a reason sophisticated operations never comment on prior employees beyond dates employed. There’s nothing to be gained, and lots of money to lose. Economic damages are so much easier to prove in cases involving profession or employment. And once you’ve got economic damages, punitive damages open up as a possibility.
Its a legitimate investigation by the NFLPA. And you’re absolutely right, it’s one area of Federal Labor Law that actually favors the worker. A former employer can not say anything bad about an ex-employee (this is case law, not statute).
That’s why HR departments don’t give negative referrals. Giving salary and term of employment is shorthand for “bad employee”.
Which is why the Eagles is not saying anything
One of many reasons, I’m sure.
All of which add up to: we have nothing to gain by discussing the relationships with our personnel.
Consider they said ZERO how can they be guilty of saying anything? Also makes zero sense why they would smeare him while trying to trade him.
Its like trying to sell something while telling everybody how terrible the product is.
“I don’t like Benjamin very much. I’ll be highly disappointed if the
Eagles draft him anywhere. I see him as a LB trying to play receiver.”
So, you are saying we should draft him to replace Trent Cole? Got it.
“I don’t like Benjamin very much.”
That hurts Tommy. That hurts real, real deep.
So, Ben hert?
My whole life, basically.
I know you’re joking….but…..
….wouldn’t it be something to draft KB w/ the intention of turning him into an OLB? 6’5″ 240….put on another 15 lbs and we may have something there.
I hate him as a WR.
So Mike Williams is better than DeSean Jackson. 😉
nah cheaper and less toxic
Bingo. Nobody here is saying Jackson is a terrible football player. Clearly he has field skills.
Some just don’t get irony…#shakingmyfurryhead
I’m not sure that’s irony..
Maybe it was irony with a grain of sarcasm. Or just a bad try of being comical. Or maybe I really think that Mike Williams is better than DeSean. Only Chippah knows…
LOL. I was shocked to hear he was traded. I thought he was a pretty good WR. Some reports say TB will now go after a WR in 1st round.
Wasn’t the 2013 draft load with safeties? Didn’t we desperately need a safety?And didn’t we end up drafting one in the FIFTH round? Howie has said a few times they can draft a receiver they like in any round this year. I’m not sure they will use a high pick on a receiver this year.
Good observation.
I argue that after the first 4 taken last year, there was a huge drop of and all 4 went between our 1st and 2nd pick
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/04/04/sources-desean-jackson-was-a-problem-for-kelly-eagles-in-locker-room/
For any who wonder why Jackson was released.
This echoes what I presumed was his character.
Yup.
yea pretty much confirm my assumption on why he was cut.
I almost feel bad for Jay Gruden as Jackson will show zero respect for him
I feel that way.
But, I think this will work for both parties.
Desean will probably either fit in Washington or review his antics from the outfall of this episode.
He’s not “the man” anymore. There are bigger egos on that team.
This break-up had to occur. It was positive for both parties.
The question is who reaps the biggest gain. The Eagles have to really do well in their decision making this year, or unfortunately most of the fans are gonna be furious.
I wont be, cause I think it was obvious Desean wasn’t a lockeroom booster.
But that will cause the Eagles to maybe make some moves to appease the ailing fans
Even Ike Reese is harking on how this was a bad move and such.
Its a mess. But if the Eagles buy in, work hard, then we should come out better for it.
This was the right step to getting talent + good chemistry. The perfect mix.
No Pain, No Gain.
Good Stuff Anders!
So you’re pairing D-Jax with RGIII, who feuded with his previous Superbowl-winning coach and had his leadership questioned by veteran teammates (Garcon and Moss)? And there was a leadership vacuum last year, now no London Fletcher, and now a rookie head coach, a 28-year old offensive coordinator and a receivers coach who started coaching in the NFL 3 years ago (and couldn’t stay anywhere for more than a year)?
People talk about Kelly’s hubris in cutting DeSean, but you could easily see it the other way.
RG3 and Jackson will be best friends, until they’re not. Then it should be fun. Question is, how long does that take.
Even better: there’s not a leadership vacuum. DeAngelo Hall is the vocal leader. Which is awesome. As an Eagles fan.
Yeah, I think Jay Gruden is trying to reconstruct the “chemistry” of the Bengals. Good luck.
Couple of things.
1. I wonder if Jimmy had heard about the Maclin “him or me” thing, remember, Jimmy wrote the initial article about getting rid of him soon after Maclin signed his deal.
2. Some, myself included, have been critical of Chip not being able to live with/control Jackson, but I think timing has something to do with it. I don’t think, or hope, Chip is unable to work with some bad apples, but being new to the NFL and Eagles and him trying to install his ideas had something to do with it. In 2 years when the foundation is here I hope he will be more willing to tolerate a person like Jackson on the team
You missed the part where it said Kelly often tried to reach Jackson but Jackson would try to bully Kelly?
Did you miss the part where I said I didn’t think he’s unable to work with players with character issues. Maybe Jackson was just beyond reach, I don’t know.
It’s a nice article and all but would be nice to give specific reason as to what bullying actually happened. How would a player bully a coach? I’d expect it to be more insubordination.
I think that was more of the unnamed source’s use of a poor analogy in an attempt to paint Djax as a hypocrite. If the source is a player, I think it is fair to say that he *really* didn’t like Djax if he’s stretching for that analogy. Insubordination is all it was (assuming veracity of the source), and I think the big take away from this is that, if anything, Chip is even more “in-house” than Andy. I’m getting the feeling that during the season, Chip’s not going to take public action (benching, etc.) unless he’s forced to. But in the offseason, he’ll do whatever he thinks is necessary for his plan.
good points. There are lots to this story we have no clue about however I think we can agree on one thing…something happened that Chip didn’t like…
Why is it necessary to have a person with Jacksons character to win?
I’m not saying it is necessary, but it can be difficult to avoid. You need talented players to win, and sometimes those guys are not choir boys
Yeah. But the whole choir boy thing….
Look they can be a cocaine addict and beat their girlfriend.
But you gotta respect the Coach, and be respected by your teammates in order to go to war with them.
Good person or not, how you respond to the people you work with either hurts or helps the environment, which can effect the outcome of the organizations mission.
Pundits mention how bad some past champion teams players were. But I bet they worked well with their teammates and coaches. I bet they were respected. Its evident due to the fact that the outcome was positive. you cant win with someone you dont get along with.
Eventually it eats at the performance of the team.
He’s like another Justin Bieber.
Some interesting comments here from LeSean. Every move is made for a reason, huh?
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/lesean-mccoy-desean-will-definitely-be-missed
“I mean, [DeSean’s] probably one of our biggest playmakers that we had. He can make plays at any given time. He can control the game. He’s probably the biggest deep threat in the NFL. To lose a guy like that is definitely tough. He’ll definitely be missed. Obviously every move is made for a reason.
“The guys upstairs made the decision for a reason. When you do things like that, you have backup plans in your mind. You don’t let one of the top wide receivers go and then not have anything to back it up. I’m sure Coach [Chip] Kelly and Howie [Roseman], they’ll be able to take care of it.”
and LeSean always looked to be one of the closest to Jackson and he even is okay with the move because he believes in the system
And I’ll the a happy LeSean McCoy over any offensive Eagles player, but i’m going out on a limb saying that Nick Foles might be pretty happy with the Chipster as well. It still sucks that Djax is gone, but he wasn’t essential to the Eagles offense like LeSean is and everyone hopes Nick Foles will be. The article above sure makes it seem like the locker room isn’t mourning DeSean like they did Dawk.
“But what a number of sources close to and around the team, including current and former players, as well as additional sources within the Eagles revealed was that Jackson was not very well liked by his teammates, was blatantly insubordinate, with temper tantrums cussing out Kelly several times in front of the team, pushed the NFL rookie coach the way “a child would test boundaries,” and was more concerned with his rap label than he was about winning football games.”
“The fact is, [Jackson] was a ‘me-guy’ with an attitude problem and [Maclin] is the complete opposite, a team guy, a great character guy you go to war with,” said one source. “Funny how [Jackson] has this anti-bully thing and he thought he could push [Kelly] around; he found out otherwise. His being cut had nothing to do with the gang stuff. The team knew it. Everyone knew he had ‘ties.’ Those were his guys. That’s okay. What put him out was his selfishness. He can try and spin it all he wants how he’s ‘a team player.’ He’s not. I’ll put it this way, when it came out last Friday that [Jackson] was released, more than a few guys were happy it happened. They said ‘good riddance.’ He had no real connection with anyone.”
Good thing this was all totally about gang ties and Howie Roseman being incompetent.
But…but…he spelled his record label with two c’s!
Since you said “We can ask about other names”, I will be interested in hearing your opinion on Anthony Barr . Specifically whether or not you think he could fall to the Eagles and whether or not the Eagles should pull the trigger if he does.
He won’t fall that far but yes they should if he does.
So what would you all rather have: trade up for Evans, or stay put and take Cooks and a guy like Latimer in mids?
Depends what we would trade.
Evans would be a nice guy to have in the red-zone. We have struggled there for many years now.
But Cooks, and Latimer give us more potentially solid options. That means more competition this off-season.
I think this offense needs many good weapons opposed to just having one very explosive receiver. I think they are gonna spread the ball around.
So it depends. Id rather stay put and hope for Evans, if he is not there then go for a LB and get two WRs in later rounds.
I here ya. I do think that it is possible that Evans could drop. And yeah, I’d definitely take him there if he did. I’ll admit though, that a Cooks/Latimer combination (or even Bekham and another mid round WR) sound a lot better to me overall.
I keep having this feeling though that a guy like CJ Mosley will fall to 22. I’d be more than happy with picking up DeMeco’s successor at that spot, and getting WR in round 2/3
Sounds good to me!
I haven’t watched any tape on mosley yet.
Ive seen him project as our pick. didnt know he succeeded Demeco.
He would be if he came to the eagles. I probably worded that wrong.
I would love that scenario. Latimer is something that Cooper should have been but with a higher ceiling. Cooks is like a mixture of Djax and Steve Smith.
I would rather trade up for Barr if both were close enough to move up though.
With all those reports emerging that DeSean was a terrible locker room fit, let’s see how far good team chemistry will take the Eagles, this year and beyond.
As one did say: “you don’t have to be all friends to win NFL games on the football field.”
And with our left eye we will be closely watching the Redskins..
There’s a difference between “not being friends” and “rowing in the opposite direction of everyone on the boat.”
yea. Im pretty sure McCoy might not always be Kelly’s cup tea, but he is buying what Kelly is selling.
And everyone else is on notice to get on board or get out.
I don’t think that’s true at all. You don’t have to like what Chip is selling. You can hate it. But there are proper ways about dealing with something you don’t like/agree with and there’s the Desean way. I do think Chip can deal with grumpy people. It’s the disruptive(according to the article) way DJ went about it.
The Eagles still finished the season with 10-6 and won the NFC East. I am not saying that the Eagles won’t be better off without DeSean in the long run, I just still cannot see how bad of an influence he was to the TEAM and the coaches last year. Especially since there was no disciplinary suspensions, nada…!
Well, I guess because you can’t see it it must not be true.
No, I didn’t say that. I just don’t see a causal correlation between Jackson’s locker room behaviour and the successful first season under Chip Kelly.
Kelly won in spite of Desean. Just because he won doesn’t mean Desean wasn’t a problem.
Cannot wait to see if Kelly keeps on winning despite no DeSean. 🙂
If the eagles come out and go 6-10, there’re going to be a lot of much, much more important causes than the subtraction of Desean.
Possible reasons:
– Foles coming back to earth
– mediocre WR corps
Or
– the safety play
I still believe in the eagles though.
Plus Lack of elite defensive players!!
we won a lot of games in seasons with much worse WRs than we have now
When? You were talking about the seasons when the eagles D and Brian Dawkins played for JJ?! Yes, you are absolutely right.
Well there’s 52 other people on the roster during the season, maybe they had something to do with it as well?
We will soon find out if the eagles are better off without DeSean. 🙂
Because their can’t possibly be any other reason why the Eagles would finish under 10-6 than not having Desean… because it’s all about him. Which is a mentality that I’m sure he’d love.
If the goal is winning a SB, DeSean isn’t much of a loss, smaller WRs tend to disappear in the post-season, not just DeSean, Marvin Harrison, Derrick Mason, etc.
You want a SB, put your WR money into two big WRs and pick up small slot WRs from the bargain basement.
Steve Smith is the only small WR who comes up big in the post-season in the last couple decades, but he plays big, something DeSean isn’t capable of doing (like catching a ball in traffic and breaking an arm tackle).
So that being said you wouldn’t draft a player like ODB or Cooks in the first round?! Let’s see if the Eagles agree….
No Jake, don’t drink that smoothie. That one’s for Desean.
Well played, sir. Lol.
After reading Jimmy’s article, I’m thinking the Redskins may end up happier with the previous wr we sent them, James Thrash.
ah, James Thrash. There’s a name from the past…
So far very professional and mature interview by DeSean.
I havnt seen it, but in general I give zero credit to such an interview, He is coached up and from what I read on twitter, the questions are weak.
Do you remember the Incognito interview?
I think we all know by now that you don’t like him. 😉
No, haven’t seen the other interview.
That interview showed the good side of him and a few weeks later came the report who detail how big of an ass hole he was.
I loved Jackson the player for the Eagles, but I also believe that a coach > player and Kelly is more important than Jackson and if even half of what has been said about Jackson in the locker room is true, I understand why he was cut
Don’t you find those unnamed sources now backlashing DeSean a bit cowardish?
It seems like they’re upset that Kelly is being portrayed as the problem because outsiders didn’t get to see what went on in there. But they can’t be named for obvious reasons. They probably shouldn’t say anything, but to me that’s understandable.
There’s a reason the Framers of the Constitution’s first 10 amendments included the Confrontation Clause in the 6th Amendment.
Anyone can crap on you behind the skirt of a prosecutor or journalist.
But to go public with your testimony and accusations . . . and subject yourself to some (skilled) questioning. That’s when the truth boils up.
So I don’t put a whole lot of stock into anonymous, conveniently timed sources.
Not to say what’s being reported isn’t true.
Just that the players who’re saying it anonymously are, by choice, not all that reliable. Not without standing publicly by their words.
If they have reason to hide, then don’t say anything . . .
Because next week, one of them can get crapped all over with a little encouragement from management.
Sometimes you sound so lawyerly, AC.
Unnamed sources is the name of the game.
My biggest takeaway and something Gunn also said earlier is that some of those guys are not even Eagles related, but still know the rumor about him.
You are certainly right that unnamed sources need to be taken with an extra large grain of salt, but i disagree that it is necessarily out of cowardice. It is very plausible that players were instructed not to talk about Jackson, but some of the players were unable to stand by while Kelly and the Organization quietly weathered the storm.
The framers of the Constitution (I actually hate the description, because it makes it sound like they were monolithic in their beliefs and goals, and they were far from that) also published anonymous essays in an attempt to sell the Constitution.
Just saying.
I agree with ATG – sure, extra salt is required. But without anonymous sources, the newspapers would all be named Pravda.
unnamed sources is how journalisme works.
Not according to Jason Kelce.
🙂 and EVERY witness on the witness stand is innocent because, well, they are very professional and mature.
This was just a simple observation.
If he came bout bashing Chip, he would have proved Chip as being correct. DJ had no choice but to be professional and mature. That still doesn’t mean he’s innocent in all of this.
Chip could give an interview and I’d take that interview the same way I take DJ’s. There’s more to it than either one will admit to.
Lol. You ways try to spin everything in a negative way about DeSean.
no, that wasn’t my point. It wouldn’t matter who was giving the interview or who their coach was. There is no way both people are going to be 100 % honest. As I said, I wouldn’t trust him(Chip) 100% either.
Fair enough hairy muff.
My cousin goes to Florida State and I asked him if he would draft Benjamin in the first round. He said absolutely not. When the homers aren’t vouching for him, you know he’s risky.
True.
I like his size, but as Tommy said he moves very bad. Ertz is 250 and move better than him
Man – I step away for a day and suddenly there’s 153 comments. I can only assume they’re all about Jake Knott’s 4 game PED suspension?
Close.
123 are about DeSean
15 about the Benjamin’s
10 about sm(f)h
2 about David beckham’s big boopies wife
2 about glasses and
1 about the GREAT Jake Knott
Tell me more about these glasses comments…
You definitely don’t need any to see those boops!
Nice summary and good math. If you didn’t mention the boobs, you would have save Baloophi an hour. Now he going to go hunting, only to realize an hour from now the boobs were in the last thread.
Kelvin Benjamin is a beast. Id be stoked if we drafted him. he can play outside and in the slot and can block.
Foles and him would dominate in the red zone.
He had one TD that he had to adjust for, he was looking over one shoulder then had to adjust and flip around to the other shoulder to reel in the pass all while the ball was in the air.. thats special.
[…] 23, is a bit of a polarizing prospect. BGN’s Mike Kaye is a fan. Tommy Lawlor of Iggles Blitz is not. In two seasons at Florida State, Benjamin recorded a total of 84 receptions for 1506 yards (17.9 […]