The Corner Situation
Posted: April 7th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 101 Comments »Some people feel the Eagles are now set at CB. They have starters Cary Williams and Bradley Fletcher returning. They added Nolan Carroll in free agency. Brandon Boykin is already one of the better slot guys in the league. And Roc Carmichael is still a young guy in the mix. To some, that group seems pretty set.
I’m not in that category.
Let’s start with the incumbents. Cary Williams and Bradley Fletcher are not good CBs. I would describe them as being effective starters. They can have good games. When officials let them get away with a bit of contact, the duo is much more effective. There are times when the duo will struggle and give up some plays. I don’t think you can ever be comfortable with marginal starters.
There are other factors. Williams will turn 30 in December so he’s got that working against him. Fletcher has durability issues. He missed 3 games last year and has had major injuries in the past.
I do agree that adding Nolan Carroll was a good move and makes me more comfortable with the depth on the outside. Still, it isn’t as if he’s some shutdown corner.
The subject of Brandon Boykin is complicated. He is a very talented player and is coming off a good season. Boykin has the potential to be a great nickelback. Will the Eagles ever move him outside on a full time basis? I don’t know. Some argue that they’ll have to when he’s going for his second contract. If not, he’ll leave. That makes a lot of sense, but I’m not sure the Eagles want him outside. Bill Davis tends to prefer big CBs who can re-direct receivers as they release off the ball. Boykin is only 5-9, 183. That’s small for a corner.
I guess we’ll find out how the Eagles feel about him moving outside when we see if they go for a CB early in this draft. If they don’t, maybe the team does see him moving there in the future. I’ve got my doubts.
As to Carmichael…he’s a non-factor at this point. He showed very little last year. He wasn’t some awful player that looked hopeless, but he didn’t impress me. We can hope he does well this summer, but you sure don’t count on him.
This is the time to draft a CB. Get one and let him sit and learn for a season. Williams is a smart, veteran player. I’m sure the young guy could learn from him. You always prefer the ability to work a guy into the lineup rather than having to throw him out there from Day One.
I’m not saying the Eagles must go get a CB in the 1st round. I do think they can go for one that early if the right guy is on the board. I don’t mind having the guy sit. Lito and Sheldon sat as rookies and both turned into very good players.
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The Eagles have LB Jordan Tripp from Montana in for a visit today. What I’m curious about is if they see him as an OLB or ILB.
Tripp is 6-3, 243. He is listed by most as an OLB, but I think that is in the 4-3. He had 9 sacks in college so clearly he wasn’t used as a primary pass rusher. He is good in coverage.
The Eagles could see him as a backup to Connor Barwin or they could see him as someone for the inside. DeMeco Ryans isn’t a long term answer at ILB. Tripp would be someone to draft and develop for the future. The Eagles do have Jake Knott, Najee Goode and Emmanuel Acho there now. If they spend a mid-round pick on Tripp, that could tell you that the team isn’t that high on the guys already there.
Per Elliot Shorr-Parks, the Eagles have already shown serious interest in Tripp. They met with him at the Combine and also sent a key guy to his Pro Day.
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I can’t value a corner in pciks 1 or 2 if we continue to play a lot of zone.
WE have an urgent need for an impactful pass rusher and now a quality
wide receiver, too. DeSean (and his cut) has really messed up this draft.
How can we take a DB number one?
Didn’t we play far more man than zone? I also disagree with the urgent need for an impact WR, but that is just me. It falls squarely under the category of luxury for me with this team.
Don’t know the pct, but we played a lot of zone. I’d draft a corner but not 1 or 2. We really need a WR. What if Maclin goes down? We got almost nothing there.
I agree we should look at depth players on the outside after the draft one way or the other.
I think that Kelly loves to draw up unique offensive plays so much that he won’t be able to help himself, and he’ll take a receiver pretty high. I just hope we nail this draft like we did the last two years–not 2011.
I certainly wouldn’t reach for a CB, but if he’s your BPA, I have no problem with it. We definitely have a need for an impactful pass rusher but I’m not sure any are going to be available via the draft. I would disagree on WR… losing Jackson hurts no doubt, but we are replacing him with Maclin, a completely viable starter. It’s not like it’s a massive dropoff. We also have Sproles who I suspect will be used more as a receiver than a running back. I think we’ll be OK with what we have, so I would not be reaching for a receiver either, but I assume we will be drafting one or two anyways and they could contribute even if lower-round picks. If we draft a CB who can sit and learn and step in as a starter if the current ones get injured, and lets us release Cary Williams next year, then great as well. We have shored up the secondary to the point that I think we have at least one viable backup at both CB and S (where we had neither last year), but we really need some impact players (i.e. better than the current CB options) in the secondary, so if one is available at 22 I have no problem with it.
If we’re taking a great corner, I’d be okay with him. I’d also trade back for more picks.
But if Maclin goes down, we have NO deep threat at all. It would kill us. Gotta take a WR at least in the 2nd round.
Get over it, already.
You don’t think Pinkston / Thrash 2.0 means we have to invest in a WR earlier than we would otherwise?
I think they go BPA, which means they’re already prepared if a WR is the unquestioned best value when the Eagles pick. I think DeSean’s erratic numbers (majority of yards came in 1st half of the season, his disappearances in playoff games) will more than be offset by a healthy Maclin, not to mention Cooper having another year in this offense, as well. And if we draft a WR, like Latimer, and he contributes Year One, do much the better…
In other words, I think we’ll be fine.
How do you know Maclin will stay healthy? He’s missed a lot of games.
Maybe Chip Kelly disagrees with me on this, but I believe that keeping your talented players is a better option than letting them go to another team. Boykin has a lot of talent, as he showed last year by being tied for second in the NFL in interceptions. He’s going to expect to be paid like a big time CB because he is on the cusp of being one. He’ll also expect to get the playing time a big time CB deserves. The Eagles at least need to give him a chance at outside CB if they want to keep him for the long term. If he stinks, then he’ll understand why Davis was hesitant to play him outside and won’t negotiate with other teams to be their outside CB.
I totally see both sides of this. Boykin is an extremely valueable player for what he does, but having him play outside is a risk based on what Tommy said in the article. What is nice is that they can give him a trial run out there in 2015 if they cut Williams while still controlling Boykin’s contract. .
I can see the Eagles being interested in adding some of these tough to define LBs. Tripp is definitely one, but Christian Jones and Kyle Van Noy could do the same thing, and line up all over the formation to disguise the pass rush. You’ve got to think that Billy Davis loves that kind of versatility. It’ll be interesting to see if they go get a pure pass rushing OLB, or focus on getting more “Jack” linebackers. Right now, I think that they need depth behind Barwin and at ILB more than at ROLB with Cole and Graham (and Braman?) currently at that spot.
I’d love to see a guy at ILB in the 6’3 / 250 range with the wheels to get home on a blitz.
I’m down for waiting til 3rd or 4th round for Aaron Colvin. Let him heal and develop for a year.
Agreed. Especially since CBs take time to learn the system anyway. If he can learn the mental part while rehabbing, a year from now he could be on equal footing with someone who spends the year on the bench.
We brought him in for a visit today….I would much rather draft Antone Exum in the 4th
Hey Geagle what did you do to get Banned from 24/7?
Not sure which Philly writer put it, but the Boykin situation is clear:
1. We try him outside, it fails, he might offer him a slot corner deal and he might accept (and not try his luck elsewhere)
2. We try him outside, it works, turns out he can be good outside too, we sign him to an extension – Boom, we got a long term starter
3. We leave him at slot corner, and he’ll look for a team willign to have him play outside, and there’ll be plenty. We lose him
Option 1 he potentially stays and we have a good slot corner, option 2 he stays and we have a good starting CB, option 3…We lose one of our best young player at a position of need not even knowing if he could have been a starter outside for us. No reason not to try him outside this season, regardless of who we draft.
Why cant we just pay him to stay inside?
We might be able to. The line of thinking is that he wants to play outside, and would be willing to leave town to do it.
Because you can’t pay a slot corner starter money, and another team will throw that kind of money at him if he hits the market while playing that well. I had a massive brain fart and thought Boykin was signed through 2015, so thanks Tumtum. Gives us one more year to play around.
Why cant you? People argued a few years back one couldnt pay a slot WR or vote him to the pro bowl. Guess who covers those slot WRs?
With 3 WR sets almost becoming standard, having a great slot CB is worth it.
this is what I came to say. There are so many times now where you hear about the third CB being as important as a starter. I dont see the reason that the pay structures cant change to accommodate this new line of thinking.
I seem to recall us having the highest paid slot corner in the league a few years ago… was that Hanson?
Was it not Al throw the flag…?
I think you could convince Brandon to stay and get paid good money to play the slot. You pay him say $5-6 million or so APY. He wouldn’t attract much more from a team that wants to play him outside in part because they have to hedge their bet that he can do it. By playing in the slot you also decrease the impact on his body and probably allow him to play another year or two.
I would of course like that, but assuming he keeps playing well, the chance of a (or multiple) teams offering him starter money + the chance of him wanting to 1. get more money than we would offer and 2. try his chance outside gives us very little chance to keep him in that scenario IMO.
If I recall correctly that is what happened with Rod Hood, where we would have liked to keep him on the cheap to be 3rd CB /backup outside but the Cards threw starter money.
This is not Hanson part 2, a physically limited CB that works well as a slot CB but does not project well outside, Boykin has good hands and athelticism, happens just to be short. Plenty of teams would be willing to roll the dice.
And yes, slot CBs are important, but they still play only 60% of snaps or so – You don’t give a top5/top10 contract to a guy like that, and the guy himself probably wants to play outside.
I mean I didn’t come to those numbers all willy nilly. If you look at the contracts around the league, I don’t care how productive Boykin is in the slot, a GM isn’t gonna pay him top of the market money and come to a new scheme, with new players, in a new city, and a new position. That figure fairly compensates Boykin, allows the Eagles to retain a valuable playmaker on defense. Boykin played alot of slot corner in college as well, he’s never complained about it, and he’s very good at it, so this well he wants to play outside because then he will get super duper money is overstated.
You can, people are just simple…
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What probably happens is Cary gets restructured, so him and Brad start the next two years..after the 2015 season, Cary will be cut, we will have to pay good money to Boykin by then, but that’s when our veteran outside CBs get replaced by guys on rookie deals….Howie doesn’t look at it as how much we are investing in a player, he looks at how much we are allocating to a position as a whole…right now Cary gets 6mil, and Boykin gets 4th round money, in two years Boykin will be getting that 6mil, and the outside CBs will be getting 4th round rookie money….so it will pretty much be the same, doubt Howie cares if the slot or the outside guy is making the money, as long as we arent spending too much on the position as a whole
I think Williams is cut next year and Fletcher extended (he is FA after this season)
He is signed through 2015. Think that puts him as a URFA, but no need to force anything at this point. I do agree it needs to happen though.
I would hope that Boykin gets a shot on the outside at some point. If not this year. He is insanely athletic and does a great job of being in his guys hip pocket. Didn’t he out jump Megatron for a INT against the Lions, or was that in my fantasies? Granted if memory serves it was over the middle, not running a 9.
Brent Grimes was the 2nd rated corner by PFF last season. He is the same height as Boykin. Pretty sure they run press/man over there. Just seems silly not to give such a talented player a shot at such a role.
Right now, I see Boykin’s biggest obstacle to playing on the outside as handling the physicality. He’s small to be effective at jamming. I look at his height as not very important because he can jump so well. If he can become effective at jamming, I see no reason why he won’t develop into a RCB. Him there with someone like Fuller on the left would be great. Move Boykin inside in subpackages.
The eagles gave him a shot at the outside last offseason, but they decided not to force him to learn two positions so that he could really fulfill his potential on the inside. There’s no question that’s where he’s special. But I think the eagles are going to continue giving him reps outside every offseason. And as Boykin gains more experience, the eagles are going to be hardpressed to find two outside corners who can do a better job than him.
I realize I’m a broken record at this point, but I just really don’t like Jordan Matthews, and it looks like the draft community is coming around thinking the same thing. Really think we may end up taking Latimer in 2nd round.
Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPN 17m
@robstaton Latimer – Size, strength at the line, strength at the break point, contested catch skills, strong RAC, special teams value.
Sigmund Bloom @SigmundBloom 14m
@LRiddickESPN @robstaton its funny, watching him i saw the receiver people want to think Jordan Matthews is. Latimer>Matthews
Ryan Lownes @ryanlownes 7m
@SigmundBloom @LRiddickESPN @robstaton Agreed, Sig. Latimer better at making contested catches & one of the best blocking WRs in the class.
Yup. I don’t get why people are so enamored with Matthews too. Latimer has more intangibles than Matthews. He might not make people miss but good luck trying to find 3 other athletes as well-rounded as this guy.
but he lead the SEC in receiving and he is big and got big hands
That’s nice and all but college is in the past and I care about what they’ll do in the NFL.
It was more sarcasm, I hate Matthews, but that is the reply I always get for people who hasnt really watched any film.
Forgot to mention, he is the cousin of Jerry Rice, so he must be great right?
Haha I knew it was. People just don’t get that college production is kind of overrated.
I need to read more about Matthews. I know that Pat Kirwan, who I trust, really likes the kid. He also has 250+ catches, so I know his hands are there. It is possible that he’s totally a system guy considering he played for the best coach in the NCAA, so he might not really be that good of a player.
I’d love to upgrade the CBs, but considering the other needs on the team, I am hesitant about drafting a CB in the first round. I agree that Williams and Fletcher or no more than effective starters. Nolan Carrol isn’t someone who is going to be a shutdown corner, but his addition means that at worst, he is the #4 CB. Alternatively, if he plays well here and earns a starting spot, Williams or Fletcher move to the #4 CB. Finally, Boykin is a fantastic nickle CB, and while I agree he may not be the answer at outside CB, I don’t think anyone questions his ability to play on the inside.
I know we all would love to replicate the 2002 draft where we picked up Sheldon, Lito, Lewis, and Westbrook, but I’m not sure that means drafting a 1st round player who sits behind veterans for a year. Keep in mind, the year before we were coming off an NFC Conference Championship loss. The team was already very good, so we did have the luxury of having rookies develop into their roles. Right now, we are still a flawed team that is growing.
Having said all that, I do not have a problem with the Eagles drafting a CB in the first if he is the clear BPA and a trade down wouldn’t return good value. I just think there will be other players available at 22 who could reasonably be considered BPA and/or trading down would be a good option. I just think targeting a CB specifically early is not the best use of resources.
I just learned we’re after Watkins Jarrett, a small school stud. Andy Reid also wants him badly. He plays both guard and safety.
The size of a safety combined with the speed of a guard!
Eagles aren’t targeting any position, Howie has been adamant about BPA, and I think he’s sincere, he really learned his lesson from his AR years, the more they targeted positions, the more mistakes they made – you can always find decent free agents to patch a position for a year or two, but the problem when you take a Watkins for need, is you pass a Wilkerson who could start for 10 years and take another position off your needs list indefinitely.
They certainly would take a CB if he’s BPA, but it’s not a desperation thing, Carroll is a great pickup, top flight measurements on a guy just coming into his own, let someone else coach up raw college athletes, then sign them when they’re on the verge of emerging as NFL players. I think Maragos also fits that mold.
The one thing I have seen them do the last year is substantially increase the level of athleticism at the back of the roster, and I expect that this season – no Tommy “smart but slow specials,” safeties with great instincts who run 4.7 40s, they look great on college film, but what you see is what you get. The back of the roster is going to be filled with athletes with intelligence and work ethics who have a chance to respond to coaching, at worse, you’ll have a bunch of physical studs manning your ST units. Colt had heart, but no amount of coaching was going to give him another 2 inches or 10 lbs or the hips to cover. Keelan Johnson may not develop, but he has NFL measurables, at least there’s the possibility that he could turn into a player.
I think that’s where Chip has changed Howie’s approach – Chip likes measurables, if safeties have to run 4.6 to be successful, and be at least 5’11 and 200 lbs, because every successful safety in the scheme they run has been above that minimum, then ignore film when it wants to tempt you into making an “exception,” one exception can always be made, but three years of exceptions and you have a defense that’s too small and too slow, no matter how smart.
In a sense this is “Moneyball” thinking applied to the draft, the idea is not to be a slave to measurables, but rather, using measureables to increase your odds of success – don’t think you’re so smart you’ll identify the one outlier who’ll be the exception. It’s not measureables over film, it’s using measurables to narrow the field, then use film to choose within that smaller population of players.
Okay. I’ll bite. Who is Wilkerson. Great post anyway!
I assume Muhammad Wilkerson, a DE drafted by the Jets seven spots after Watkins who had 10.5 sacks last year. Cameron Jordan was another DE selected one pick after Watkins. Not entirely sure it’s a good example since we were drafting for a 4-3 defense then, and not sure the BPA concept includes drafting players who are not a fit for your scheme. And of course we had just drafted Graham the year before and probably planned to re-sign Cole, so DE was probably well down the list of needs at that point — there was probably someone rated similarly at a position of greater need. Now if we had just drafted Earl Thomas instead of Graham the year before…
Problem with Wilkerson was he didnt fit the wide 9 as a DE or DT, so why would we have drafted him?
BPA is Bullshit!! I could understand BPA, if the big board was a Ranking system, where you just list all the prospects in order of how you rate them, but that’s not how it works. Big boards is made up of grading system, and guys will have similar grades and be grouped together in different Tiers….SO(especially at the top of the draft), unless a player like Evans.barr.Gilbert,Donald fall to 22, Eagles will most likely be choosing from multiple prospects with similar grades, and that’s when NEED comes into play….if it was. Ranking system, then BPA would be accurate because you just take the guy at the top of the board regardless of the position…but in a grading system, NEEDS usually get factored in
I’m not exactly sure who it is that you’re arguing with.
Why would you take that as arguing?
Problem is when is need?
Since most rookies don’t start, and many don’t contribute, you’re talking 2015-16. Now unless you have a crystal ball, who is going to get injured, fall off the cliff and need to be replaced, conversely what young player is going to unexpectedly emerge and make a need a strength.
Expect the unexpected and keep improving the depth of your talent base. Don’t assume you know what you’re going to need in 2-3 years.
And players aren’t even, Eagles will probably have 150 players on their board, maybe 5-10 per early rounds, there may be 2 players available that they like when they draft, there may be 10, they may be even, there may be a clear pecking order. a clear decision rules protects them from doing stupid things.
The idea of drafting CBs out of need right now scares the hell out of me. There will be plenty of teams playing copycat on the Seattle structure, so the pressure will be high to get the tall CBs early. Using a 1st or 2nd rounder on a position that normally doesnt play well in the first year is bothersome. Having to stretch to take lower talent early just to beat out the other teams thinking the same thing just makes things worse. I only want to see this if it is a BPA situation, and I dont want any wasted first rounders, again, ever.
They typically start slow but across the league the top corners are almost all 1st – 2nd round picks. Tommy even mentioned the scenario of drafting a guy high and sitting him for a year.
I just have to get used to the idea that the new coach is still rebuilding the team. I am fine with the concept, and really push the idea that Chip’s 5 year deal means that results need to start being impressive around year 4. Being competitive last year makes me want to win, and there are so many holes to fill that I hate the idea of overpaying an early pick and then for the guy to sit.
I like the idea of drafting a CB early and I was focusing on Kyle Fuller also as I assumed Dennard would be off the board. Our secondary is the weakest part of our team. We’ve brought in 2 new players who can help but that’s not enough and isn’t the average age of our secondary something like 27 – 28? Time for some young blood.
I actually quite like Jimmy’s new mock draft.
For the lazies.
1. Brandin Cooks
2. Christian Jones
3. Jaylen Watkins
4. Jerick McKinnon
5. Dontae Johnson
7. Wesley Johnson
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Eagles-seven-round-mock-draft-version-20.html
Lazies would be those who mock Brandin to the eagles..
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Eagles will be adding versatile players who are Big and have Length for their positions…Chip wants BIG and Long players, and there are so many quality ones at every position ofther than OLB, that I dont see why Chip would abandon his vision to settle on smaller players…I could see if cooks was soooo much better than all the WRs with exceptional size, but he isn’t, so I find it lazy to mock him to the eagles…IMO of course(because if you don’t type that after everything you write, 300 anal fools jump down your throat)
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I love C.Jones and hope he is an eagle, but round two seems pretty damn high to me
I wouldn’t say it’s lazy. Mocking Calvin Pryor to us for a month was lazy. Cooks is the second most dynamic receiver in the draft. If Djax could produce here, Cooks could do it too.
I forgot that the Eagles just traded for one of the smallest players in the NFL? Cooks is a great WR prospect no matter size. Kelly has never said he wants size at WR, they wants:
Hands
route running
Yac
blocking
Cooks can do all that, where a guy like your boy Matthews has only YACs on screens (so not that impressive)
We just got rid of Brandin Cooks. Why would we draft him?
Well, the one in the draft isn’t a lockerroom cancer.
Unless there is an Oregon State version of Jeremy Maclin ready to give unsubstantiated anonymous stories about him.
It’s more a question of what type of cancer he is. We don’t need malignant, but could live with benign.
Cooks is a tad slower but more physical than Djax though. Oh and he does a better job going across the middle.
20 lbs. and salary, just to name two.
I don’t get Jones in the 2nd round. I can get him in the 3rd or 4th.
Ehh I feel that Jones is a 3rd rounder. The fourth might be pushing it a bit.
Telvin Smith > Christian Jones.
I do like Jones but only in the 3/4 n BPA
If only Smith would play safety. He needs to bulk up to play a full time role. I love how he flies around the field.
I agree with you with CB being a clear need. However, I do consider Bradley and Williams “good” CB. Call them 2A and 2B respectively. Neither are shut down #1 corners but paired with a true #1, then would could be very effective. The problem is that since neither are shut down corners, the safeties must help out both at times.
I had to re-read your article because I wanted to stick up for Fletcher and Williams because they were so much better than DRC and Nnamdi. Then I see that you gave them credit as maginal starters and after thinking it through I can see where you are coming from. The problem is how many shutdown corners are there in the NFL? Two or three? So getting a marginal starter as you call it, isn’t as bad as one might think. For some reason, I like Fletcher because he gives it all on every play and so does Cary. There is something to be said for a player that sells out on every play that goes beyond their talent level.
I think Chip likes them more than fans think..I’m assuming they are here ATleast two more seasons(contracts will have to be altered of course)..
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My guess is they start this year. We take advantage of the CB depth of this draft and wait til 4th or 5th to draft a CB(hopefully Exum), so we can focus on getting the front 7 where it needs to..then I think we draft a CB high next year(possibly OLOMU), restructure Cary, Cary and Brad start again In 2015, and then 2016 is when you will see the new era of eagles CB…would love to see Exum/OLOMU, groomed and ready to take over in 2016
The one thing that Cary excels in is motivating the team to stop being a bunch of candy-asses. I truly believe that.
Think Cary will get restructured be back in 2015 and cut before 2016..
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I’m I’m wrong,then they will take advantage of the CB sweet spot in round 1 between #22-30 and draft Fuller. But I DOUBT IT…
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I’m expecting this draft to be used to solidify the front 7, improve our ability to get off the field on 3rd down:
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One of these:
Marcus Smith
Demarcus Lawrence(knucklehead will have some convincing to do at the interview)
ATtachou
Trent Murphy
Possibly Kony Ealy(doubt we are interested in Ford)
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One of these LOLB/ILB hybrid, basically the player we pretended Casey Mathews was last year this player will be strong in coverage and be a subpackage addition his rookie year:
Christian Kirksey
Christian jones
KVN
Telvin Smith
Jordan Tripp
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Backup NT/DE
1) Deandre Coleman
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Sure so,e early picks will need to be Solent on skill positions…I don’t think we would adress the secondary before round 4 at the earliest…hoping for Antone Exum, and scoop up safety Jonathon Dowling in the 7th..kid just reminds me of the type of sFeties we are interested in…tall, 6’3, lanky. Long arms..4.5 speed..190lbs, frame that can handle more weight..9INTs and 8FF his last two years…..If Exum regains his speed another year removed from the Injury, we develop him as 6’0 213lb CB…if he doesn’t regain the speed, we move him back to safety where he played for 3 seasons, and jack him up to 220lbs, which he was chizzled when he was at that weight a few years ago…..I’d be hype if we could add Exum mand Dowling between rounds 4-7
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Dude,,,you still haven’t realized that when you answer, I just minimilze it right away so I can’t read more than the first 3 words…you sweat me and respond to everything I write. Figured I would point that out to you so you don’t waste any more of your time…if I would have realized there was a minimilze button years ago, just imagine all the worthless drama I could have avoided…now fools like you don’t even enter my brainspace…figured I’d do you a solid, since you clearly haven’t taken the hint :)..poof, you disappear! Lol
You have no sense of humor.
Kelvin Benjamin is at the Novacare complex right now….Tripp and Aron Colvin are also visiting
I hope they are asking Benjamin how he would feel about being drafted to play OLB.
Tackle eligible?
Richard Sherman project without the mouth?
I’m wondering how many of last year’s draft picks can help us better determine who are truly the “Chip Kelly” players in this year’s draft.
Lane Johnson is totally in that big,strong, athletic mold, but that is what any team wants in a tackle unless you’re the Giants and you draft un-athletic under-strong guard prospect Justine Puke and play her at tackle.
Etrz is another big athlete.
Logan isn’t that big of a guy, especially for NT. Even for 3-4 DE he lacks that Watt / Keisel stature you need to really play that position. But Logan is a great athlete, just not of the size one would expect.
Barkley – 100% my boy because he helped transition people away from the “Chip Kelly needs a stupid illiterate running dolt QB” mindset, but Barkley isn’t in that crazy athlete mold. Chip did repeatedly say “accuracy”, so maybe QB truly is a different mindset.
Wolff – Solid player, but not entirely a “specimen” in the Cam Chancellor mode.
Kruger fits the classic 3-4 DE big guy model IF he bulks up AND doesn’t join Knott on the suspension list as a result.
Poyer and King are gone, so I’m not sure if there is much info to be had there.
All in all, I’m not sure if we really know enough from the 2013 class to really get a full read on what types of guys Kelly likes.
Think 5tec he will like someone like Brent Urban, with Taylor Hart and Josh Mauro being Late round options..
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Think NT he will like Deandre Coleman who is a Bennie Logan clone from PAC 12..6’5, 315lbs, freakish long arms, tough, plays thru injuries..most people look at him as DE, we use him as NT(like Logan)
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Safeties, I don’t think we have any interest in strong safeties.,,think we like the Haha Dix, Jimmie Ward, Jonathon Dowling Types..
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TE is tough. Because there are different types. Ebron would be an Ertz type, if he wants to look for Celeks eventual replacement I assume he would look at Sefarian Jenkins. A James Casey type would be Jace Amaro…
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Cornerbacks will be ATleast 6foot, decent arm length, like to play physical, Exum, stanly Jean types
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OLB will be the hard part…Chips ideal OLB is like 6’6 with Long arms..not many prospects in this class fit that mold..you basically have Trent Murphy and Adrian Hubbard…the quality pass rushers from 22-54 are probably Marcus Smith. Demarcus Lawrence and Attaboy..those guys are all 6’3, 6’4 tops..think chips wants them to have potential to be credible in coverage, and he he is always talkng about the importance of being able to set the edge. As a rookie it doesn’t matter. Because Cole is elite against the run, and we can ease the rookie in as a Nickle pass rusher, but we can’t pay Cole those mega dollars next year, so the prospect we draft will need to be able to rush the passer and set the edge by the beginning of the 2015 season…which is why I don’t think Dee Ford will apeal to us,,,I suspect it will take him two years before being able to play the run,,,
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Trent Murphy is the mold we probably want, and I was shocked to see him move backwards much better than I expected at the combine, but ROLB primarily needs to be a beast pass rusher, is Murphy an explosive enough pass rusher at the NFL level?
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My best guess is Marcus Smith..6’3-6’4(not ideal but close), freak long arms that we covet…IMO. He is who we can count on the most to develop into a quality player against the run, in coverage, and rushing the passer…..Attachuo is probably next best,,
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Wildcards: Anthony Barr(be a miracle if he makes it to 22) and Kony Ealy, who will never be a weapon in coverage. But he can probably do simple Zone drops better than Trent Cole ever will…
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Player I know nothing about that I need to learn about is the DE from Oregon state.
I mean Wolff isn’t the biggest guy, but he’s freakishly athletic.
http://mockdraftable.com/player/4310/
I’m with you there, I guess I just didn’t see the athleticism translate to play making over the season.
Safety is a very cerebral position. Wolff was a little raw coming out and playing immediately didn’t help. The more you are thinking, the slower you play. It should improve this year as the game starts to slow down for him.
Logan has long arms especially for his height so that makes up for the lack of size somewhat overall. And King is a big guy with good character and Poyer was a very good college player who played in the PAC-12. Not sure if that gives much info but it could indicate draft strategy for later picks in that they’ll take guys Chip is familiar with or who have certain measurables that they are looking for since these aren’t picks that you are planning to have success with often but can occasionally get a steal.
yea Logan is built like a Gorilla, long arms and big hands. Also Logan have said that the Eagles think he can bulk up too 320 this year, so long arms, big hands and plenty bulk is perfect for NT add in great lateral movement and we got us self a nice prospect
Desean misses first day of OTAs. Guess he isn’t that extra motivated.
In fairness to him, why should he lose an extra week or two of vacation just because he was signed by a team with a new coach. His phone was already programmed with the Eagles OTA dates and that stuff is really hard to change.
The only thing that matters is if he told coach and GM about this planned vacation at the time of the signing…I don’t know if he did or didnt
They said planned. Just tossing it out.
Signing Carroll hasn’t properly fixed the CB spot, just like signing Nate Allen hasn’t fixed the S spot, or Darren Sproles the slot WR spot. They are merely adequate/band aid moves that set the Eagles up to take BPA on draft day. It means if all the corners you like in the draft are gone you can look at the season ahead with a glass half full view and say your CB corps is at least reasonable. Not as good as it could be, but OK.
I think the key question is whether the Eagles are going to extend Fletcher – THAT will be the key indicator of whether a CB is a need or not. He only signed a 2 year deal, and is therefore going to be a FA after the season.
After all that is what the draft is for, FUTURE holes. It’s easier to fill the current holes in FA. Future holes for the Eagles include: Cole, Ryans & Sproles (due to age), Maclin, Fletcher & Nate Allen (1 yr left on contract), maybe some OLs due to age as well, Peters, Mathis and Herremans are past 30 now.
Cody Lattimore and KB were at Novacare today…Bicknell worked out Brandon Coleman and Quron Pratt this morning
No stones unturned eh?
Can’t wait til we workout Jeff Janis. Think Chip will love him…we need more picks..hoping our first pick doesn’t come til like #40
Our corners must be the second coming of Hitler and Sadam Housain for Tom to talk bad about them 🙂
There are holes to be filled at WR, OLB and Safety before CB…
I was getting ready to say, who thinks the Eagles are set at CB??? None of the fans feel that way. No one does. They needed to upgrade the CB spot. They still can via the draft. But, they really should have tried out one of the veteran DE/ Dlineman. I know there were few DT’s to shake loose in FA. But, the Eagles need to adress more of the defense.