More on Marcus Smith
Posted: May 9th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 237 Comments »Marcus Smith is a good football player and a good fit for the Eagles. I think he can be an outstanding 3-4 OLB. The Eagles are a better team with him in the mix. He offers size, versatility and athleticism that wasn’t there at ROLB as of Wednesday.
But many people are upset with the pick because of the question of value. People think Howie Roseman is being untrue to his Best Player Available theory. Let’s discuss that notion.
First, none of us knows the Eagles board. I get some info here and there, but didn’t hear a word about Smith. Chip Kelly went to his Pro Day. The Eagles brought him to Philly for a visit. They had definite interest in him. We now know that they liked him quite a bit. Let’s talk about why.
First, body type. At the Senior Bowl, Smith measured in at 6034, 258. That is 6-3 1/2 and 258 pounds. He was 251 at the Combine and 253 at his Pro Day. That tells you that he carries 255 pounds or so pretty naturally. The Eagles would love him to be 6-5, but being about 6-3 1/2 is still a good frame. He has 34-inch arms and 10-inch hands. Those are crucial to the Eagles. Chip Kelly has a saying that “long levers make strong levers”. The big hands help him to tackle better and shed blocks more effectively.
Now let’s talk about the skills the Eagles want in an OLB.
Roseman says edge rushers are ranked on three things: How they can rush the passer, set the edge and play in space.
— Eagles Insider (@EaglesInsider) May 1, 2014
Smith grades out well in all 3 categories. He had 14.5 sacks last year so you know he has some pass rush skills. Put on the tape and you see him playing the run well. The thing that really surprised me was how well he did in coverage. Smith looked natural playing in space.
The Eagles weren’t interested in a pure speed rusher. They didn’t want Dee Ford. The Eagles preferred a LB who was versatile. They don’t want to line up and rush the same guys from the same spots over and over. Think about what Chip Kelly has said about Peyton Manning. You can’t beat him playing straight up. You must be multiple. You must be creative. Smith can be effective rushing or covering. That is hugely important to the 3-4 defense and the zone blitz.
Smith had the size, skills, production and athleticism that the Eagles wanted. You can easily see where they had him rated higher than other players. You can also see where other teams didn’t like him as much. Grades are specific to teams. Aaron Donald was coveted by many 4-3 teams. I doubt the Eagles had him on their board at all. Didn’t fit.
I’m sure plenty of people saw Smith as a reach at 26. I doubt 4-3 teams saw him as a Top 50 player. But that is irrelevant to the Eagles and their board. They graded players on the qualities they prefer and how players fit their systems.
I had no problem with Smith being a late 1st round pick. In fact, I wrote about him as a target if the Eagles moved back with a trade…and I wrote that in mid-April.
I don’t think Smith is a guy that will step in and start right off the bat. I think you mix him into sub packages and see how he adjusts to the NFL. If he thrives, you start him sooner rather than later. If he struggles, you bring him along slowly. Smith is here to be a key player for the next 5 years, not the 2014 season.
Because Louisville played such a creative scheme, I think Smith can adjust to the NFL quicker than other guys. Louisville played a 4-3 in the past, but ran more 3-4 this year. Smith lined up all over and rushed from various spots. He also dropped into coverage on a semi-regular basis. There isn’t a whole lot of projection here. The Eagles have seen him handling the role they will use him in.
Smith had a good postseason showing. He impressed me in the Senior Bowl game.
* Marcus Smith did impress me. The stat sheet shows one tackle, but I thought he did a solid job as both a run defender and a pass rusher. He was aggressive and physical with blockers. Smith showed some cover skills as well. There was one play when he turned and ran with the TE down the seam. That’s impressive for a guy who is 6-4, 258. You know 3-4 teams are interested in Smith as an OLB.
Here’s what I wrote about him from the Combine.
Marcus Smith weighed in at 251, which is 7 pounds lighter than the Senior Bowl. Some guys do this so they will be faster. He ran 4.68, which is a good time. He had a 35-inch VJ, which is good. The one area where Smith struggled was the 3-cone. He came in at 7.48. That needs to be down closer to 7.00-7.15. I didn’t get to see his on-field workouts yet, but I’m still a fan of his.
Per Gil Brandt, Smith did lower his 3-cone time to 7.08, which is right where I said it should be.
I’ll post a lot more on Smith in the coming weeks. I’ll break down some tape of his so you can see the various skills of his and why Smith impressed me so much.
Don’t obsess on the value question. More than a few people assumed that the Eagles could have moved back again and still gotten Smith. That is possible, but it misses the point. They also could have lost Smith. We have no way of knowing if the Eagles were the only team that loved him. The Eagles obviously felt strongly about him and didn’t want to risk losing Smith. And I do trust that they had a high grade on him. After the 2011 situation, I can’t see Howie reaching in a major way. You can argue that the Eagles had Smith graded too highly, but that is different than saying he wasn’t their BPA.
When you factor in that the Eagles moved back 4 spots and added a 3rd round pick, I love the move. The Eagles added a young, athletic pass rusher to their defense and also a good pick in a very deep and talented draft.
The other benefit here is that the Eagles can now deal Brandon Graham if they want to. As I mentioned the other day, the Eagles wouldn’t get all that much for him, but any extra picks this year would be appreciated.
The Eagles drafted a big, fast, athletic OLB and added a 3rd round pick. That’s a good start to the draft. There are still plenty of good WRs to choose from in the 2nd round. I’m shocked that Marqise Lee is still on the board. Maybe the Eagles will move up for a WR that they like a lot. If they use the 3rd round pick they got on Thursday, they can get up to about pick 36 or 37. Lee and/or Cody Latimer could be sitting there.
I got my pass rusher so I’m a happy camper.
_
I’m a little sad but at the same time I really did like him. I’m sure if he was chosen 3-5 picks later by us more Ppl would have been Ok with it.
One thing u see is his timing and how fluid he is in space standing up going after the QB.
I might have had a slightly bigger smile if it would have been Lee or Latimer though.
There’s still lots of drafting to do!
3-5 picks later might’ve been good but we don’t have that kind of insight. I’d like to believe that Howie was able to get some insight into which teams were interested in Marcus Smith based on who he was bidding against for the slim pickings at OLB in free agency.
I’d bet Attaochu goes very early in the 2nd now and this pick begins to look a lot better.
I see what u mean. N I agree. I just think Ppl would would have been more mellow about the pick.
Great post.
Still shocked how many fans are freaking out. This was a fantastic night.
Two important things to note about the draft so far:
1) If we didn’t think Chip believes in Nick Foles yet, we definitely do now.
2) BPA + Need *can* line up. All I’m seeing from beats (including Jimmy) is the notion that this was a reach for need. I trust Chip when he says Marcus Smith was on top of their board.
Also. What a great trade. Awesome start to the draft. Feel great about it.
what was his reaction? i checked his twitter and didn’t see anything too different than what i’m seeing here (from those not freaking out, i mean)
Here’s another thing to think about.
EVERY SINGLE PLAYER WE LIKED GOT TAKEN AHEAD OF US.
Barr. ODB. Fuller. Mosley. Cooks. Clinton-Dix.
And people are complaining about not trading back another 6 spots like we can predict exactly when someone will go off the board?
Chip & Howie clearly liked Marcus Smith, didn’t want to mess around with our guy getting taken in front of us AGAIN, and made the pick.
I’m glad we have adults in the draft room and not the single-minded manifestation of our fan base making decisions, we might actually win a Super Bowl someday this way.
That brings up the question: Did the Saints trade up to take Cooks before the Eagles could get him?
I’d say it’s possible, but the Browns said they knew the Eagles were a likely trading partner so they most likely intended to trade back the entire time.
I would say most definitely.
Probably so.
Barr…. no shot.
If the eagles wanted Cooks and Ha Ha, it would’ve happened. They would’ve traded up. Those guys were not on the wish list. They also didn’t want Marquise Lee as a 1st round pick.
Have to factor in not only would we lose the 3rd round pick we got from trading back, but we probably would have lost our 3rd or 4th rounder as well. Maybe for Cooks, definitely not worth for Ha Ha.
Those are the 6 guys I think were on the 1st rd grade list too. Marcus must have been #1 on the 2nd rd grade list.
I heard that Marquiz Lee has lingering injury questions. Maybe he drifts to 54?
I can see why people might be disappointed. If they are like me, they look at where the Eagles are picking (#22) and then start concentrating on all the players being ranked from 10-18 and hoping one of them, like Barr, Mosley or Beckham, falls into the Eagles’ reach.
But I really wanted a pass rushing OLB and I value Tommy’s opinion so I’m pretty happy with the pick. The Eagles switched to a 3-4 last season and we all know that involved fitting square pegs into round holes. You can’t just turn pass rushing 4-3 DEs into 3-4 OLBs and this pick helps continue the transition.
Another interesting note? He could play either OLB positions in case Barwin or Cole goes down.
And just turned 22,in march
I want this guy develops into a 10-12 sack a year player, because that’s what we really need. I know Chip loves versatility, but IMO you’ve got to have at least 1 stud edge rusher, so hopefully he does’t just end up being another Barwin, strong in all areas but not elite in any.
I’ve said since January that’s exactly who he is. He may have one freakish outlier year where he gets a couple freebies and goes off for 15+ but he will give you 10-12 year in and year out just like Cole did in his prime. I’d rather have Smith than Orakpo. Throw in the fact that his versatility allows Davis to get more creative with pressure looks, which should create favorable matchups for other players. The defense as a whole just got much better tonight.
Why I feel confident with projecting those numbers for him is due to the fact he has all the tools. He rushes outside with speed well. He has a decent bull rush. He actually uses counter moves, although these need to be perfected. He bends well. His spin move has the potential to be deadly. If you can get him to sink his hips while he spins, watch out it will be a signature move.
He will be a better pass rusher than Barwin, and still has great skills in coverage and against the run. He can be a very good ROLB, or in two years, when the roster is a little more settled and we reach the point where we are on the verge of winning one, we can mortgate a draft to go get a freakish top 5 pass rusher and move Smith to LOLB and have the best edge combo in the league. Plus Barwin’s contract will have ballooned by then.
Is Smith going to be a Hall of fame player? No. But he will probably overtake Trent for 2nd in franchise history for sacks, make a handful of Pro Bowls, and be a beloved player who everybody denies they were critical of when he was drafted.
Interesting.. How did I miss that Trent Cole passed Clyde Simmons on the sack board? Must have been the scotch.
I think it should be interesting how they use him opposite of Barwin. Barwin’s a better pass rusher than we give him credit for, mainly because we needed him to play conservatively. If you have a second OLB who can cover and rush, it allows you flexibility in where the rush comes from.
One of the biggest problems I saw with our pass rush last year was that it always seemed to come from the same areas. Kendricks or Cole. Now you don’t know: Barwin or Smith? Smith or Barwin? Kendricks? I think we’ll actually find out how good a pass rusher Barwin really is.
Smith is also good at looping in and shooting gaps. His inside move is sweet; so you have a D-line that engages their blockers and creates gaps for him to stunt inside on. I’m more and more excited the more I see of his film.
One of the things I noticed watching the tape on Smith was how much the Louisville defense looked like what we saw in Philly this past year. Louisville did a wonderful job of getting Smith clean runs at the QB and he did a very nice job of making those opportunities count. He does need to improve against the run and I’d like to see him get better using those long arms. Must say, I love the upside.
I’m not too worried about him against the run. He solid at it but there are alot of signs that point to him being able to be pretty darn good holding the point of attack. Attachou and Smith both played Miami this year. They had a good Junior TE who goes 6’4 260 himself named Clive Walford (46 for the canes). Walford did a pretty good job getting into and knocking Attachou off the line. Watch Marcus against Walford. Totally different. Marcus gets his hands inside the frame and compresses the blocker back towards the runner. Really impressive to see.
I saw 1 great game from Attachou and then a lot of nothing. He looks like he has an outside move and so he either beats his guy or doesn’t. If he doesn’t, he’s neutralized, walled off.
Smith is never out of a play, he actually made a few good shed plays on the run. Setting the edge may give him issues, but I’m not seeing the strength issues I keep hearing about, at least not to the same extent.
But more than that, he’s more creative with his moves. He needs a better spin move, and he needs more bend on his outside speed rush, but that inside move is sweet. He’s going to get a shot or two at Zach Martin this year. My money’s on Smith.
Exactly what I noticed there as well. That fourth down stop against Miami was a clinic on how Billy Davis defends the run.
Well D3, I like that you like him ;).
Do you think he has POTENTIAL to be a more than 10-12 sack guy?
not in this system
Probably not. Like I said he may have a year or two where he goes off in a couple of games or for whatever reason gets a few more than normal. I think what you’re asking is there an outside shot he becomes Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn like. Probably not. I’ll gladly eat crow about that statement though.
I would love him to avg 12 sacks a year!!!!
My one worry with him is whether he can beat NFL caliber tackles 1 on 1 regularly. I didn’t see him defeat individual blocking on a regular basis this past season.
And while I agree his outside speed rush and spin moves can both be outstanding, I question whether he can be as good as prime Orakpo as a force off the edge, based on Smith’s good but not great explosion.
I agree with most of your observations on Smith’s play though and overall I’m pretty happy with day 1 too.
We can’t forget that Marcus Smith was a quarterback just a few years ago so you have to believe what he’s put on tape so far isn’t his ceiling. He’s still got a lot of room to improve on his technique and hitting the weight room at NovaCare with the Eagles conditioning program behind him could be a pretty good jump.
It’s funny. I was on the phone with a friend when the Eagles came up at 22 and I was saying to him, “I don’t want Marquise Lee. Maybe a trade back for Marcus Smith or Jeremy Attaochu.” Lo and behold, the Eagles traded back. I got my wish and one of the players I thought fit the Eagles perfectly. I will agree with most of the naysayers though in that I thought it was a bit early. I thought Marcus would be available around pick 40ish. Still, out of the LB’s in this draft, outside of Mack and Clowney, I didn’t see a better fit for our defense.
For those who yell Anthony Barr . . . . great athlete, but not a football player. Has major problems getting off blocks and is a one trick pony as a pass rusher. He also has little to no awareness on the field.
Most disappointing thing that happened, Cowgirls passed on Manziel and actually took a very good player in Martin.
Agree with everything you said, except the stuff about Barr. “Not a football player” … not even sure what that means. Dude has done lots of things on the football field, so in essence, definitely a football player. He’s raw and new to the position, and despite that, has played very well. The thing I like most about him is his killer pursuit. Would’ve liked to have had him, but not for the cost it would’ve taken. Time will tell who will have the better career, but I’m definitely satisfied with the Marcus pick.
Barr can run. Absolutely fly and he has great size. Watching tape of him though, if a blocker gets his hands on him, he’s done. He also has no instincts for the game. He gets fooled over and over again on misdirection plays. That’s what I mean by ‘not a football player.’ Huge upside, but he is also very high risk. Before I watched the tape, I, like most people was excited by the idea of the Eagles either trading up for Barr or having him slip to the 22nd pick. After I watched a couple of his games, I didn’t want him before the 2nd round. Just too much risk, too many holes in his game.
He means someone along the lines of DRC. Great intangibles looks amazing on film, but has no strong LOVE for the game or awareness of the game. Some people are just so athletically gifted that it overshadows that part, but at the same time you do have to notice that.
My first impression of the pick was also WTF??? Sounded like an “old regime” bonehead eagle pick.
I am 99% sure that the eagles tried to trade down again, but couldn’t find any willing partners. They knew they had no takers, and I guess Smith was at the top of their board and didn’t want to wait until the 2nd round to get him. I would’ve preferred WR Cody Latimer, but maybe they can trade up in the 2nd to get him.
With all due respect Tommy, I don’t like Marquise Lee for the Eagles. He dropped to the 2nd round for a reason… DJax dropped to the 2nd round too (and we benefited from his talented play, but he’s never been the type of WR the Eagles have wanted… or knew how to use perhaps?) I think we’d get a lot more from having Latimer than Lee, and hope that happens.
I am 99% sure that the eagles tried to trade down again, but couldn’t find any willing partners.
Not according to Kelly. He said they fielded a lot of offers to move down but were afraid of losing Smith, especially after KC took a pass rusher, Ford, after they traded down from 22. he also said they had 6 players to draft at 22, but all were taken before their pick. The price to move up from 22 was too steep..
Do you guys really trust chip to tell us the truth? Why would Chip tell us, and more importantly other teams how we draft and evaluate talent. To me, it doesn’t make sense that the eagles would wait so long to send their pick in (30 sec left). I think they were waiting as long as they could for a trade back in the upper part of the 2nd round. I agree, smith would not be there at 54, but likely would have for 34-44.
Can’t blame them for trying. Smith is probably a solid prospect.
Chip said they had offers to trade down further, or trade down again, but were zeroed in on Marcus Smith and didn’t want to lose him.
I thought the pick would be Latimer or Lee, yet they are still available. Tomorrow is going to be the defining day for the Eagles 2014 draft. I could see them giving up later picks (4th round, 5th round, 7th round) and/or players, to get a pick or two in 2nd and 3rd. Bottom line… Marcus Smith would not have been there at 54. Also, the first round is over and we still have 6 picks! Keep adding talent.
Thanks for the info Tommy – very surprising pick, but I do like what I see – I like that he has played standing up and in a 3 point stance…and that he can drop a bit…I took James Gayle to flll this role in the suprfan mock in the 2nd round, but now we are free to get Lemarcus Joiner or a WR – that extra 3rd is HUGE – very excited for Friday night…
I really thought after Mack and Barr Marcus was the best OLB prospect for Eagles for a long time. I had Attaochu close to Smith. I thought they were both above the rest of the mainly pass rushing OLBs for us.
I remember playing around with mocks. I was playing around with trading down into the second round and getting him as a scenario usually get a high 3rd round pick. Well they got great value moving down 4 spots and getting a mid 3rd round pick.
I like the pick even though it may not seem exciting right now The trade down was a great move. I think some fans were hoping a player fell to the pick such as Ha Ha.
Some fans need to remember as well that drafting BPA vs Need isn’t clearcut. There are many factors with that. RB or QB or OG could have been the BPA at the pick.
Also we are in transition with the defense. They need to get players in that transition or we will be worse off. They still need to make good decisions on the players they draft or acquire for it.
There is also more to come so I can’t wait to see how the draft looks overall.
If your reason for hating the Smith pick is because you don’t know who he is, please take the time to educate yourself.
The logical comments on this blog are nice breath of fresh air after reading BGN, Philly.com and Birds 24/7 this evening. I’ve got no qualms with people hating the pick after they’ve watch film and made an educated decision, but can’t stand when people just say “who is this guy” or “we should have just traded back more”. Drives me nuts.
Oh boy..I wandered into the BGN thread and the whining there was ridiculous. All of the babies there will probably love the draft if we took a WR in the second.
Yea, sad to see at 24/7, I think disqus brought some fresh clowns to town for the circus. hope they wander back soon
Only one other potentially game changing OLB left in this draft imho and that’s Attaochu. Neither Smith or Attaochu were likely to be around by the time the Eagles picked at 54. Whether we agree or not, the Eagles took the best player at a position of need and one of the last potential difference makers left.
For those who are banging the drum for a WR, Lee, Moncrief, Adams, Matthews, Robinson, and Lattimer are all still available and all but Lee fill Chip’s desire for ‘big people.’ I strongly suspect we’ll see one of those guys join Philly next round. Hopefully it won’t be Lee.
Hi Tommy, this draft is unusual, not helped by it being in May. Personally, it has come at a time where my employers are in the middle of a huge personel shake up, wage cuts and redundancies on top of which they paid for inspectors to come and view what we do, starting on Monday. Staff morale has sunk and we all have DeSeanitis! With the increased prerssure and workload, I have not been as involved, yet the draft is so magical, even when the pick isn’t necessarily as magical that I find myself drawn and enthused again. I look forward to dreaming of Eagles again, rather than relying on Rum and just not sleeping. I have to say last night, when my nightly world thoughts turned to the draft, I felt Marcus Smith would be a first rounder. Go Eagles. Go Mr Smith!
I’m told the Eagles really wanted Anthony Carfagno, but settled for Smith instead. 🙂
My day 2 rankings
WR
Cody Latimer
Allen Robinson
Jarvis Landry
Davante Adams
Marqise Lee
Martavis Bryant
CB
Pierre Desir
Phillip Gaines
Jaylen Watkins
Bashaud Breeland
S
Lamarcus Joyner
Dion Bailey
DL
Rashede Hageman
Stephon Tuitt
Louis Nix
Timmy Jernigan
Kony Ealy
Daquan Jones
OL
Xavier Su’a-Filo
Morgan Moses
Joel Bitonio
Billy Turner
Cyrus Kouandjilo
Gabe Jackson
TE
ASJ
Troy Niklas
Jace Amaro
ILB
Christian Jones
KVN
Telvin Smith
I think Smith was an excellent pick because outside of Barr he was the best 3-4 OLB left. People are just butt-hurt because they didn’t get “their” guy. Stuff it. Fans may be right on a hunch every once and a while but you don’t know more than the front office of a professional organization.
There is still plenty of opportunity to get Lee or Latimer in the second round. Watching Smith play against Miami was great, he pretty much owned that entire game. This kid is VERSATILE, can blitz as a MLB, edge rush, cover, set the edge and play the run.
Seriously, what else do people want?
Seriously. Smith was the best rusher left that fit our scheme. We couldn’t have gotten him at 54 and we didn’t wanna risk trading back, hence we take him at 26 after trading back once.
Exactly. People don’t seem to understand that somebody had to take him. It wasn’t like we drafted a guard.
I took some time to look at OLBs picked in the late first and second rounds back to 2006, and their combine scores. I’m not filled with a huge amount of confidence. Most good 3-4 OLB are taken early much as Mack was. The rest seems to be tweeners or physical monsters that were successfully developed. http://www.footballperspective.com/which-positions-are-the-safest-to-draft-in-the-first-round/
I really have to say, I’m rather dubious of Smith at where we got him. Nothing like as dubious as Watkins, but honestly, if people thought he could turn out to be truly good, he would have been drafted higher. Just like Clowney being drafted by a 4-3 Under team, most teams will make space for quality edge rushers, even if system fit might be an issue.
The Watkins pick wasn’t dubious at all; in fact it was praised by most draftniks. The Steelers most likely would have taken him if the Eagles passed. He was projected as a first round pick and instant starter. Now Jaiquawn Jarrett, that’s another story…
Clowney was drafted by a 3-4 2-gap team i think, he’ll be an OLB.
They are not a two gap team, even though they do have a 3-4 look.
They weren’t when Phillips was there. They were a rare 34 one gap with him.
Now Crennel is running the show. Don’t know what his plans are.
The initial trade back softens the blow.
Tommy – I’m disappointed, how dare you let facts get in the way of the public opinion from the experts
My apologies. Won’t happen again.
Now I really hope that Nate Allen will play to his potential.
You can hope to find gold at the end of the rainbow too…
So we have 2/4 of our LBs that will only play on 2 downs. I expect Smith to replace Cole on 3rd downs. Now if we could get Christian Jones..then we could swap out Demeco and have an insanely versatile LB group.
I think Smith is more Barwin than Cole. Maybe he’ll be a great pass rusher, but he looked much better in space on the tape than most guys i’ve seen.
Looks like he has a pretty good first step to me.
Kelly once again provides magic at the podium. Puts Eskin on the spot about his board and then clowns him by saying “I never heard you stutter”
I’m excited to see what this front office can do in these next 3 rounds, probably even happier none of these dopes in the media are running this team. From Kelly’s mouth, they had their eye on this guy since last year.
What are some WR targets in the backend of the second? I’m thinking davante Adams?
Initially I was disappointed, but I think that largely comes from the hopes that Barr would fall from all the rumours recently. That smokescreen worked well!
After time to process I’m really happy with Smith and an extra 3rd round pick.
Looks like there is still a really good chance we’ll get the WR we want – using our 2nd and a 3rd if that’s where the FO want to go.
I’m sure if a mock draft showed us getting Smith and Lattimer or Lee only spending our original 1st and 2nd round picks most fans would have stated they were happy with this.
Ditto
Eagles needed to take Dennard…way too early to REACH for Smith
You have to wonder if this isn’t a “do-over” for the Eagles. They didn’t get Jordan in last years draft, and they couldn’t trade for him, so they were determined to get an OLB. He’s a poor mans Dion Jordan. I like the player, but it’s still seems like a reach.
Some really good news: Benjamin was drafted by the Panthers!
They were on the clock until the last minute. I think they were trying to trade back again but couldn’t find a partner in the top of the 2nd. So they went ahead and drafted him, probably a bit higher than he could have gone but the best of the alternatives.
Now we’ll see if they trade Graham – maybe in the 4th or 5th round?. They did offer him in the Jordan trade so I’m sure he’s still in play.
Well, to quote one ubiquitous poster, Marcus Daaarling is on board and they got an extra third. I think it’s all cream cheese from here.
Got an extra pick which they really needed and an edge rusher but it still too bad they didn’t get Clinton Nix. Really wanted that young S who could be a solidifying player the Eagles haven’t had since Dawkins-Mikell.
Yeah, me too.
I wasn’t that sold on any of the safeties this year. Corners, however…
I cant really complain about a pass rusher, OLB has more value than a safety.
It appears they saw something in Clinton-Dix that they didn’t really want.
Howie said they had 6 guys they wanted at 22 and when none of them were available they traded back. A lot of people didn’t think Clinton-Dix would even fall to 22 so I doubt the Eagles expected they could safely grab him at 26.
It was said time and time again… Barr was not falling. I don’t know why people were praying for it to happen.
Early in the draft — Gruden(of course) wanted that QB drafted. Someone said it’s a reach. Grudens reply was perfect. He said “not in my eyes”. If you love a player(read, have him graded higher than what others think), grab him. Why wait? You can say all you want about a reach. If Chip loves this kid, he did what he’s supposed to do … put him in an Eagle uniform. I really don’t know the kid but look forward to T-Laws introductions on him.
Can’t wait to see what else Santa brings. Giants got a nice treat for xmas.
So many fans view it as ‘what do we need to win the Super Bowl this year’, when Chip and Howie view it as ‘who do we need to win Super Bowl after Super bowl in the years ahead.’ Great analysis, and though it was a surprise, it makes sense more and more.
I’d disagree. I don’t see fans saying SB this year. I think most are hoping we close the gap with the better teams…
The Pats notably “overdraft” guys year after year, but it doesn’t get questioned that much because it’s Belichick.
well — that and Bellichick has all kinds of SB wins…
And the bottom line is, he doesn’t give a crap what anyone else thinks, he takes the guys he wants.
and he cheats…
it’s true that BB gets away with his arrogance because of the rings. can’t argue with it really.
I’ll say this about BB. Name a ring Parcells won without BB. Parcells is, for some reason I can never figure out, is considered a football god. BB created that guys mystique.
Many had Easley as a top 10 player if not for the ACL.
But 2 ACL tears is a huge “if not for”.
I was going to go #1 overall if my 200 pounds wasn’t all blubber and my 7.6 40 time was calculated in base 20.
living in Boston, I can tell you Belichik is raked over the coals here for the Pats drafts…maybe not nationally, but they let him have it here. It actually is a very familiar refrain, he’s arrogant, he thinks he is smarter than everyone else.
I agree with this. A matter of fact, this pick was still a surprise because Belichick usually plays this game in round 2, not round 1.
I’m not thrilled but really there is no one that I was in love with at 22 or 26 anyway. I mentioned earlier the draft wasn’t going the Eagles’ way and that’s what happens when you pick late and teams ahead of you don’t do a ton of stupid things.
So the Eagles had 6 targets at #22. Let the speculation begin…
Watkins
Evans
Mack
Barr
Fuller?
Dix?
Wouldn’t be surprised if there was an O-tackle on that list.
I swap Watkins with Cooks. I think the 6 guys was realistic guys. Same swap Mack with ODB
I’d toss two lineman in there. No way Cooks was on the board, aside from sproles we haven’t seen anyone get picked who isn’t a fit from a measurables perspective.
Gun to my head? I’m guessing
Mosley
Fuller
Barr
Evans
ODB
Martin
I’m not sure Roseman could have been any more clear that the Eagles were very likely not taking a wide receiver in Rd 1.
It could have happened. But the comments out of Cleveland suggest it would required Cooks or Beckham to fall into the mid-20s
I agree, though on the other hand, the way things are these days, that could easily have been viewed as a smokescreen.
Kelly said that they had 6 guys they hoped to fall to 22 and none of them did.
We certainly don’t know the Eagles value board, but it’s pretty obvious that their most glaring need was at the top. BPA my ass…
Was there anyone that much better, someone that was a “had to have?”
I wasn’t thrilled with Roby. Easley? Lee? Benjamin? I just don’t think it’s all that bad and maybe he was BPA.
And I think that the “BPA” strategy, such that it is, is much more of a guideline for pick #10, say, than pick #26. At some point all of the guys with rare great skills on your board are gone, the difference between the guys further back is not as great. It makes sense to take need more into account.
Thanks, mate. You just took the words outta my hands and put it on igglesblitz, in nice writing.
See ICDogg’s reply. I am still too drunk to type. What a great first round!
It kills me that some ppl can’t see reason and logic. To say we could of had this guy later or we should of traded down again like its that easy. This isn’t Madden ppl geez, we don’t know where other teams had Marcus Smith on their boards. SF could of had interest with all the problems Aldon has had recently. I will admit I was disappointed that HA HA was gone at 2..was very happy we traded down to get the extra pick then disappointed again with the pick. Once the raw emotion wore off I took a step back I thought about it. I’m on board with it
Good size, speed and length combination. Production is there with 14 1/2 sacks although the competition wasn’t all that great, but hey u play the teams on your schedule. We would kill the kid if he didn’t put out those numbers so that’s a wash for that argument. Huge upside and he’s not gonna need to be rusted to play right away. Will learn from Cole and Barwin while coming in as a sub pack player. Knows how to play on his feet in multiple fronts and was the 3rd best true 3-4 OLB if ppl woukd take the time to analyze the pick and player as a whole it makes alot of sense. Its not like they didn’t show interest in him either.. Good pick, good start
Two drafts for Chip and with both first rd picks we pick a guy who once was a QB hmm.. I see a trend here ppl, so look for any former QB as our first rd pick next yr..lookin at you Devin Gardner WR lol
I’m not surprised that Marqise Lee is still available. I didn’t have him highly rated due to the simply fact of injury concerns. And I am sure the other 32 NFL GM’s thought this as well.
Me. Want. Latimer.
Latimer and Matthews are going to go high, i expect a WR run in the second round. I do think some 3-4 OLBs will be there in the second, wonder if we take two and then take 2 WRs in the third…
Giants taking ODB, now they have two undersized WRs vs our oversized CBs.
Amen, Latimer is the guy. I thought he’d be the guy in the 1st, but I’ll gladly take him in the 2nd.
we could’ve had Vontaze BUrfickt !!
Just pondering how far Nix may fall…if he fell far enough in round 2 would he make more sense than a WR? I am still stuck on that last NO game.
I’m always about taking the big D tackles…
I mean look how far Jesse Williams fell. NT is a devalued position because you are going to take them off in subpackages. Plus he may have medical flags. And he had some really ugly tape last year. There’s a small but still a chance he could be there at 83
Keeping up with this blog and reading commetns sparingly has helped me to grow and learn more about the game and the draft. My first reaction was the typical fan reaction because I wanted to know the guy we picked.
Then I remembered that he was talked about on this blog. I re-watched his tape and I think hes a good player.
But to be upset witht his pick is foolish.
This was a great pick. When you think about it.
Just starting with the fact that we now have a legitimate ROLB. I see this guy being our Derrick brooks.
I think he will start and trent cole will be our sub guy but both guys will move around on the right side with M. smith moving all over the defense, inside, outside on both sides.
With 6 picks left, we are in a great position.
The more time passes and decisions are made, the more I fall in love with where this organization is going.
The focus is on Team and FIt, and to me that is whats gonna take those guys on that team to the promise land so we can enjoy.
I would never presume to really know more than the professionals who do these things for a living, just because I heard what several self-appointed experts had to say, and watched a bunch of YouTube clips on my phone.
Seems like your presuming that I presume I know more than anyone, especially professionals. I get your point, but its misplaced.
Thanks though. I won’t be one of the people saying “if they only listened to me”
Just weighing in as a fan.
No, I wasn’t saying that at all. Sorry if I made it sound that way. Just amplifying on your initial point.
My bad…i feel terrible (not sarcasm)…Thanks! 🙂
I agree with you on the pick. I liked Smith best of Barr and Ford and him, for the reasons you mention. Barr has a higher ceiling but as of right now he is just a speed rusher. I do think they may have been able to wait a few more picks – I think it would have been interesting to trade instead for CLE’s 2d this year and a 1st next year (since they are flush with next year picks from the BUF trade) and still get Smith at 35 ,but that’s water under the bridge now. I think he’ll be a good player and they have to start slotting replacements for the over-30 guys on the roster.
I was surprised at the comments made about Barr after his pick. Almost made it feel Barr was picked too soon. One guy thought Eagles pick was a bit of a reach, the other announcer said he loved the pick.
One thing that seems empirically true at this point – Lee would have been a BIG reach at 22. Don’t claim to be D3FB-like in my evaluative abilities, but I really wanted no part of Lee at 22. Looks like the NFL agreed.
Couple other angles:
* Kelvin Benjamin to Carolina, LOL.
* Are people complaining the 49ers reached w/ Jimmie Ward? He was a guy that could “sneak into” the late 1st, just like we heard w/ Marcus Smith.
* Late 1st Rounders actually have a ton of value to teams because their salaries are relatively low compared to high picks, but you still get the 5th year team option under the new CBA.
I think Carolina will have the slowest receives in the NFL.
Well if anyone can improve KBs hands, it’s Avant
Maybe we couldn’t have moved back a second time–no partner. If we waited until 54, no chance of getting Smith.
I wonder if we trade UP in round two?
Okay reading this makes me feel good… along with DF’s reaction last night lol. I didn’t remember it was the guy referenced to in the April post until a buddy texted me this morning that he was a former QB, then it instantly clicked.
I like this pick… a-lot. I didn’t want a first round WR. Poor man’s Anthony Barr?? I will take it. The former QB thing is also very intriguing. Something about that screams play maker to me. He should be able to figure out whats going on very fast. For some reason I invision picking a screen off for 6….i hope I am a soothseer.
I’m sooooo happy!!! Love this Regime. After all the years of complaining at Andy’s picks this new regime just gives me everything I want…soo happy!!
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We got an extra 3rd and got a better pass rusher than dumb ass Andy and his fastballs got before us…btw, Yous are kidding yourselves if you think the Niners weren’t gonna snatch up Marcus with Aldon smiths problems..
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Marcus is one step below Barr….what a stud this kid will be:
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1) will be ready to set the edge and play the run as a 3down OLB at the beginning of year two, so we can cut Cole after this season..
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2) can rush standing up or as a DE when we go to our 4 man lines
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3) his ability to drop on coverage provides maximum disguise with Barwin on the field. Which one is coming? Which one is dropping?
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What a score!! We got a quality prospect at the most important pick on defense, which happens to be very scarce in this draft….I’m so damn happy! Thank you Howie, thank you Chip!!
Our next picks. We will draft one guy from each group:
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1) Latimer, Robinson,Devante,Lee!Jordan,
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2) KVN, Kirksey or C jones
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3) Tre Mason, Sefarian Jenkins WR #2 Moncreif/Martevis
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4) Dontae Johnson,Exum,Terrence Mitchell
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5) Deandre Coleman, Shemar Stephan’s, jay Bromly, baue Allen
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We will draft one name from each group
Everyone say it with me…1,2,3 Maaaaaaaaaaarcus Daaaaaaaarling!!!! So hype!
miss over at 24/7 man – there’s a petition to bring you back. And we knew you’d love the pick.
Lol thanks…ask Sheil and Tim how that ‘Marquis Lee pick worked out for them 🙂
Initial Reactions:
1) Got an extra 3rd Rd pick, ecstatic.
2) Passed on Manziel and Kelvin Benjamin, ecstatic.
3) Got the top of the 2nd tier of 3-4 OLB’s
4) Still plenty of WR’s left.
Plus this made me feel better about passing on WR’s in the 1st Rd…
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/5/6/5686126/2014-nfl-draft-preview-visualizing-eagles-offense-missing
“Avant was one of the least productive starting WRs in the league last year, so replacing his production will be easy.” I’ve been saying that for years — easily replaced. They are nice graphs and all but it leaves a lot to be desired. DJ presence on the field has an impact too even if the ball isn’t thrown to him. It’s hard to measure that impact on a graph.
We got plenty of weapons though that defenses should have to worry about everyone and not “1” guy in D-Jax.
Lane Johnson and Marcus Smith are now on the QB depth chart at #4 and #5 also lol. Gotta love the ex-QB’s picks.
#5 and #6 and if you disrespect Kinne like that again I will have Tommy ban you for life.
Don’t forget Brad Smith and James Casey.
Think it’s important to find someone to dump BG onto…we need roster space for Travis Long and Bryan Braman….problem is I don’t know if we can even get a 7th for a one year rental
I can’t take all this coverage of our media crapping on this pick…what a bunch of fools… McGovern and Barwin will turn this kid into a boss
F them I like the pick he will be our Clay…I hope getting the 3rd best OLB in a weak OLB class with arguable the most upside of any of them while collecting an extra 3rd is a win for me
With aldon smiths problems, kid wasn’t going to get passed the Niners. It’s only a reach in the picture the media painted of round 1…smart media members started talking about him sneaking into round 1, which tells me that other front offices were talking about him as a round 1 pick…brilliant pick combined with the 3rd
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It’s pretty simple..everyone knew we needed to come away with a OLB/WR combo in first two rounds…taking the OLB first and the WR second provides better value than had we taken a WR and picked an OLB from the scrap pile in round 2…brilliant!!
Exactly Lawrence Van Noy and Attochu are gonn abe gone at 54 so why reach for Murphy I will take Smith/Latimer over Lee//Murphy all day long
I like the rule of thumb — grade the draft in 3 years. Right now it’s silly to grade any of these picks…
Brandon Graham for Dre Kirkpatrick? Not sure why, but people seemed to have labeled Kirkpatrick a bust plus the Bengals just drafted Dennard. Like Graham, hes a former first rounder and he has the length that Eagles brass covets. Other than pointing to the contract differences, can anyone convince me that this is impossible?
i was going to say the guy in dallas
Brandon Graham contract expires. He will than want to leave and test free agency..why would they give us a starting CB, for a bench player whos contract expires and they have to pay a first round salary?
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Wish we could get Jabaal Sheard expiring contract for BG, but I hear the browns new coach likes how violent he is
upvote for the return — and briefness of reply. nice to see you back.
Our next pick will be one of these players:
KVN
Latimer
A-Rob
Lee
Moncreif
Jordan
Devante
Martevis…
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One of these 8 players will be an eagle in round 2
KVN I think is gone and then wr is interesting cuz there could be a run hopefully AROB or Latimer is there or maybe they toss someone a 5th for 6th to get ahead of the Jets and take the one the like
Yeah KVN falling to 54 is a long shot, if we don’t get him, I’d bet money Kirksey will be an eagle…
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Hoping for Latimer or A-Rob at 54
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Hoping the extra 3rd we have another quality weapon fall to us like Moncreif or Sefarian Jenkins, NIklas, tho it could be Tre Mason
If Latimer, Jordan, AROB and Lee are gona ASJ might be in play for 54 but yeah AROB is my dream I actually thought about him at 26 and Latimer would make me happy also
Figure Lee has to come off the board first..hoping the next highest rated WR are Jordan Mathews and Devante Adams…if Lee,Jordan and Devante come off the board first, good chance we find Latimer or Arob on the board….if they don’t last to us at 54 and KVN is gone, then I’m going with young Moncreif and his monster upside and punishing Blocking, ASJ or even NIklas …NIklas and ASJ potential to be quality blockers so they can be that traditional TE we will need to take over for Celek in a year or two
No no no to Nikolas in 2nd for us, Lee has to go first I think Brows get him and pair him with Gordon and Burleson and help Johnny Really want AROB or Latimer they are perfect for us
did GermanEagle attend the draft last night? maybe this is him?
http://deadspin.com/eagles-fan-attends-draft-passes-out-before-philly-even-1573825476
Ha ha. That was funny! I didn’t go, just went to my local bar and made it to the Eagles pick. Very hungover today though.
you didn’t make it there? i thought for sure you were going? or are you just going tonight/saturday?
I always said I was going on Friday. Not sure anymore though as feeling like the eagles fan on that picture.
haha ok man, must have mis-read all of the other posts 😛
The only thing I don’t get about this offseason is that the Eagles can’t seem that they want to decide if they are rebuilding yet again next season and/or they will take a next step & be competitors.
Kelly was emphatic at his offseason preconference when the season was over that their 10-6 record/playoff appearance wasn’t good enough. Then the Eagles went out and had a lackluster FA with minimal additions & DFA their 2nd best player on offense.
In the 1st round they moved back because of the extra pick in the 3rd pick (fine), tried to move back again but were unable (Roseman confirmed that), and then picked an OLB who Roseman acknowledged won’t be viewed as a starter next year & will take up to 3 years to realize his full potential.
While the defense does have a number of younger players, the offense doesn’t and I can’t figure out if this team views itself as a more of an 8-10 win team this year & still in transition or what Kelly said which is a team that wins at least 1 (if not 2) playoff games & wins 10+ games again.
The way I see it, the best offer we could have seen at 26 would have been the Vikings: 2.08+4.08. No other team made moves. It’s hard to argue with the eagles decision not to drop down 15 picks – a significant drop. Factoring in compensatory picks, the extra pick is 4.13. That is very little value for real risk.
Howie pretty much told us what they would do. He said receiver is one of the hardest positions to evaluate because players have a hard time adjusting to the NFL. He also said pass rushers go early in the draft and are hard to find in later rounds.
Those are two positions they need to develop more depth at. So they got their pass rusher early, and decided to pass on a receiver. I wouldn’t be surprised if they pass on a receiver with the 2nd pick.
It would have been interesting to see what they would have done if Clinton-Dix or Fuller were still on the board at 22. Like wideouts, Howie has also said safety is a hard position to evaluate. I bet he would prefer a corner over a safety.
I was really worried the cowboys would take Marcus Smith at 16th,,if I thought that was a real possibility, than how can I consider him a reach at 26?
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Chip said we wanted Marcus at 22, and we had a bunch of offers on the table, but we had to make sure we didn’t trade too far back, so we would still land Marcus….this tells me he isn’t a reach at all. We turned down compensation trading back,further because we were confined he would come off the board soon.
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Just because Geoff Mosher and Les Bowan never heard of this kid! doesn’t mea it’s a reach. After months of mocks, the media leads us to believe the draft should go a certain way, but if you think the media can accurately asses prosects like front Offices, than you are giving the media way too much credit.
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Recently some media members started mocking him round 1 16 all the way to 30..if media members started ranking him in round 1, it means that they were hearing front office people were rating him as a first round, which means he isn’t a reach…he is just a reach in the clueless Media’s eyes, half of which are going by misinformation meant to create smoke screens…
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If the cowboys would have taken him 16, I would have applauded them. No way he would fall past the Niners…really quality pick, and I’m thrilled that we would have drafted him 22….this front office really really really knows what it’s doing. Great pick, great day…now let’s kick monkey ass tonight and take names!! Tomorrow we will be talking about how we landed Robinson, Moncreif and Kirksey tonight!!! Soooo thrilled!!
I read that the Cowgirls might get him at 16 due to their failed D. I also read that he was at the top of the Eagles board (McManus).
We got the perfect guy for a Chip Defense.
Personal observations off film against Miami, Houston, USF, and Rutgers:
Natural athlete, fairly explosive. Closing speed to quarterback is good. Demonstrates ability to dip shoulder and turn corner on the way to the QB. Plays heads up and locates the ball well. Shows the ability to set the edge. Far more adept in coverage than I initially expected, although I wonder about his ability in man against NFL TEs. Deployed much more in zone than man in Louisville defensive scheme.
Concern is whether his high sack total last year was more attributable to the way that Louisville used him than pure pass rushing ability. Louisville did an excellent job of disguising the front 7 pre-snap and frequently put Smith in positions to come off the edge unblocked. Rarely appeared to beat the tackle 1 on 1. Did not see him demonstrate conversion of speed to power. Not a player that shies away from contact however. Primary pass rushing moves appear to be a spin move back to the inside and an outside speed rush.
My main worry with him is whether he has the ability to beat NFL caliber tackles on a regular basis. While some might complain about value, with the extra 3rd we picked up, I’m fairly happy with day 1.
Agree with analysis, great system fit, has measurables, we’ll see if he has talent.
That’s about right. The mush rush allowed Smith to get clean hits on the QB. Smith also dropped into coverage maybe 20% of the time and looked lost at times, he is in the right place in zone but not natural. Smith played in a scheme very similar to eagles. Smith also is always moving always pushing, very physical.
Why is our media such a joke? Mosher questioning the pick because we passed on Manziel!Kony and Lee?
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Chip knows Lee very well, how do you question him if he wants to pass on him?
Manziel is a joke we wouldn’t even consider with the rainmaker FOles in town
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And you are an uneducated fool if you think eagles even had Kony on their board…his character is making teams not want to touch him..”lazy” “already thinks he is Aldon smith but he isn’t even close” “let someone else draft him” “needs a kick in the ass”…does that sound like a player Chip would draft?
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Thanks Mosher, you worthless hack..shame zombie sheep fans take their que from out joke media
i was one of the people begging that Lee would fall to us and i was a little shocked that we didn’t get him at either slot.
but the more i think about it, the happier i am that we didn’t take him in the 1st.
Surprised on Andy passing on the Maclin clone.. Then again he took a bum fastball Dee ford, so I shouldn’t be too surprised. Marcus will be sooooo much better than Ford.
i agree 100% there. i think Ford would be a good fit for an attacking 4-3 D, but for us? no way in hell he’d be worth it.
Johnny Football? What a nightmare. Mosher just went down another notch in my book.
Pathetic! If media members started mocking him as high as the cowboys, they didn’t just pull that out of their ass..it means they were hearing GMs talk about him as a first round talent…just because the media sucks at evaluating talent, doesn’t mean this was a reach….we needed WR/OLB…we got way better value taking Marcus and waiting til 54 for WR, than taking Lee and having to settle for Trent Murphy at 54…when Allen Robinson or Latimer become eagles tonight the media can SUCK IT Degeneration X style lol
Smith was an overdraft at #26, but when you factor in his talent + potential + college production + versatility + measureables + OLB need + the extra 3rd round pick – it’s easy to live with the pick.
i will be so happy if we can land latimer at 54!!
i just realized that the media thats upset about not getting Manziel must still think that the Chip Kelly Offense *requires* a mobile quarterback…
as others here have already said… we had the chance to pick him late in the 1st rd and traded away the pick knowing he would be taken. i hope that this puts to rest the thought that everyone “knows” what sort of QB Chip wants…
Chip has wanted Foles on his team ever since he played against him while at Oregan…go so far as to say it as it helped him to decide to become the Eagles coach.
Yeah wanted Kony originally but with the attitude stuff knew it’s not happening, same with Colt.
My targets for tonight;
Round 2 :: Cody Latimer, Allen Robinson or Pierre Desir
Round 3 :: Bruce Ellington, Will Clarke, Billy Turner, Robert Herron, Trai Turner
Be shocked if Kirksey isn’t an eagle tonight…
A-Rob and Cody Latimer is Ideal for 54
That extra 3rd will be Moncreif, Tre Mason or Sefarian Jenkins
Our 3rd will be Kirksey
Don’t believe it unless it’s certified.
I agree GEagle. Kirksey in 3rd. A very good WR in 2nd is my preference but KVN then Matthews would not cause pain.
I was very unhappy with this pick last night, but I’m okay with it now. We just need to grab Latimer, Matthews, or Robinson today. If we get Cody at 54 I’ll be the happiest Eagles fan ever.
Eagles surprised most of us (except T-Law) with the pick last night. Do you think the Eagles will go with what people expect today? I’m not falling for it twice 🙂
So… long snapper in the second, fullback in the third?
Wrong. Punter in the second and two hot cheerleaders in the third.
Red Lightning! sorry FSU!! he is a ball boy though.. but i bet he could handle both responsibilities…
ahh yes, the proverbial Punter-waterboy ‘tweener. we’ve been waiting for such a prospect for many moons.
I don’t know, the third seems a bit early for a water boy. We waited until the fourth for Casey Mathews.
I’d take some Will Clarke action in the third, seems like a huge, Kelly, guy who could play both OLB and DE.
Personally I’m hoping Latimer drops to 54, but I can’t help being intrigued by some of the DL players still available. Obviously the two Notre Dame guys, both of them have injury problems(Do they have off field stuff too?), but they could potentially become really, really good NFL players.
I do like Will Clarke though, Brent Urban too, and there is a lot of good defensive prospect still on the board for today. KVN, Joyner and later Borland, Christian Jones etc.
I think my preference would be to look at the WR when we pick. If Lee, Latimer or maybe even Allen Robinson is available by 54, pick them. If not, then select the best defensive player and take a WR(Matthews, Bryant, Landry, Herron, Adams) at 83. I hope we take nothing but skill positions today and save taking OL depth for the 3rd day(heres to hoping Trai Turner last that long).
I have the same picks in that order. Let’s hope it happens.
So, let’s assume the Eagles did the right thing in picking Marcus Smith where we drafted him. What were the concerns that others seemed to have about his talent that made them grade him out as a 2nd round player?
Was not a 4-3 guy and was average on runs directed at him. From what I have read, if the scout was from a 3-4 team, Smith was ranked much higher. Smith has the arm length 35 inches and hands 10 inches and athleticism to be a winner.
He is also recognized for his versatility. He has played all over the line in a 3-4 and brings more to the table than other highly rated OLBs, notably Barr. He is perfect for a Chip Defense.
OD:
I think you’re point about 4-3 v. 3-4 scout nails it.
The scouts’ comments I posted earlier from an article ranking the OLBs fits four-square in your thesis.
Simplest, best explanation I’ve seen.
I see a lot of comments on athleticism, I don’t see it expressed in a measurable way though, I would expect an edge rusher, or someone who is competent in space to have a bit more agility, and mind you these percentiles are among DE’s, not OLB’s. So for context, He’s actually got great size for an OLB, but the other percentiles are actually slightly inflated because of the way he was grouped.
http://mockdraftable.com/player/4610/
Tommy said that his cone drill was mediocre at the combine, but that he did much better at the pro day. That’s why it’s nice to hold your own workouts I guess.
lets call the 8th percentile cone drill and 10 percentile 20 yard shuttle what it is, baaaaaad. Now that updated time, 7.08 is the same Mack got, which landed him in the 61 percentile. Which is mediocre, not particularly impressive, but respectable.
Here’s what several scouts said about Marcus Smith before the draft — and, if you follow the link below, you’ll read about 5 other OLBs:
6. MARCUS SMITH, Louisville (6-3½, 251, 4.68, 2) – . . .
* “He will be drafted higher than you think because he has some pass-rush potential,” one scout said.
* “Might be a pretty good investment. His best production came when he had his hand in the dirt and rushed. I don’t see him as an immediate starter. He doesn’t have the lower-body build to anchor the run. It will take a year to teach him to play.”
* “Kind of a hard fit for a 4-3,” said another scout.
* “He’s got a knack for rushing. Some of it’s inside. He rushes against backs.”
* “He’s more athletic than Attaochu.”
____________
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-linebackers-b99261940z1-257880521.html#ixzz31EaSirZS
Are those players ranked — is Smith better than KVN or Attaochu
A —
These comments come from a pre-draft review by Packers’ beat-writer Bob McGinn . . . whose praises T-Law sang a few weeks back. (McGinn’s twitter feed has great links by the way.)
Here were the OLB rankings by McGinn, based on the input he received from scouts around the NFL:
1. Khalil Mack
2. Anthony Barr
3. Demarcus Lawrenece
4. KVN
5. Jerry Attachou
6. Marcus Smith
7. Christian Jones
8. Adrian Hubbard
9. Prince Shembo
10. Kevin Pierre Louis
One scout puts Barr at #3 and Smith #4. Another reverses the ranking due to Barr’s lack of moves on his rush. From what I gather, Smith is more polished but that’s just my take.
Smith can anchor, I do not get where that fallacy comes from.
Smith can blitz, anchor and cover.
Yeah, I’m trying to figure out that one as well. That 4th and 1 play that he blows up against Miami was pretty much the definition of anchoring, and he has several plays where he spins or sheds off a block to bring down a ball carrier.
He also has several plays where he clogs the point of attack and forces the runner back inside.
weird
When reading between {Howie’s) lines, it becomes clear that drafting Marcus Smith at #26 was their plan C.
I don’t have a problem with that pick at all, especially since we ended up with an extra 3rd rounder.
However I will be disappointed if we don’t draft a WR today.
not trying to disagree with you, i’m curious as i haven’t read much that the FO has said about the pick yet.
what do you think their plan A & B were?
i would assume one was to move up to get Barr if he slid to the late teens.
my thinking:
A) move up to get Barr if he falls (one of the 6 he mentioned)
B) hope one of the other 6 we coveted fall to us at 22
C) trade back and try to get Smith or a guy from their next ‘tier’ of players.
is that your thinking as well?
A) Sit tight and draft either one of the following 6 players at #22:
ODB, Cooks, Fuller, Ebron, Mosley, Ha Ha, Barr
B) trade down 2x
C) Pick Need > BPA at a premier position that is hard to fill with Marcus Smith.
what’d you decide about the draft today? are you going? I’m thinking about going to rounds 4-7
I cannot make it today. Thanks to my hangover from last night. lol
Rounds 4-7 sound intriguing, although I may not be familiar with all players in the later rounds. 😉
ok, thats pretty reasonable. seeing how we didn’t get a chance to get any of those 6, i’m ok with what we got.
McManus: “Kelly, though, said that he (Smith) was the top-rated player on their board.”
Not a plan C guy at all.
“I think he has a huge upside. He is a very, very good athlete,” said Kelly. “He’s got speed coming off the edge. We thought adding a pass-rusher was a big thing for us, a young kid to bring in behind Trent [Cole] and Connor [Barwin] and those guys can kind of teach him the ropes and bring him along and show him what we can do. I think his ceiling is very, very high so we’re excited.”
McManus: “Kelly, though, said that he (Smith) was the top-rated player on their board.”
Every team says that about their own draft picks.
We know that better than anyone because . . .
Ray Rhodes said it about Jon Harris.
More or less. Considerably less or more than more or less.
i have to agree with GermanEagle on this.
Both Chip & Howie have come out saying that they had their eyes on 6 players for pick 22. Plan A.
None of them were available. so, we move on to Plan B (trade back).
i think from there the strategy was to see who was taken between 22 & 26. If they felt their guy would last, they could move back again. if they felt their guy would not last, they would take him there. Plan B / C.
thats not to say that they didn’t want Smith or that he wasn’t their highest rated player on the board at that time. Its simply that he was the second or third option as far as the value of the pick they were making.
whats really hurting my brain today are the friends of mine who are complaining that Smith was a reach at 26 and would have been available in the 2nd round. They wanted to get Lee instead.
so let me get this straight….
Smith is a reach because we got him at the end of Rd 1 and you say he would be available in the second round. we don’t know this for sure, though…
but Lee…. he IS available in the second round! therefore, it WOULD BE a reach to take him at 26…
ugh…
97.5 is amazing. Everyone hating on the eagles for not trading up for Cooks/Dix. If they wanted either one it would have cost the their 1rst and 3rd (what NO gave AZ for the 20th pick). So the question is would you prefer Cooks/Dix with no 3rd rd pick or Smith and 2-3rd rounders?
Smith+extra 3rd
I’m talking about the net.
Scenario 1: No trade, pick at +22: Maintain 86 (3rd)
Scenario 2: Cooks/Dix trade to 20 = -22, – 86
Scenario 3: Smith and trade back to +26 = -22, +83
Net Sum vs. Base (Scenario 1)
Scenario 1 + Scenario 2 = 20
Scenario 1 + Scenario 3 = 26, 83, 86
I.E. if you believe in the Dix/Cooks trade (Scenario 2) would have been the correct way to go then you believe Dix/Cooks > Smith + 83 + 86
I prefer scenario 3
Who are likely targets in the second round? Anyone with me thinking that it’s going to be one of these receivers: Allen Robinson, Cody Latimer, Jordan Matthews?
i’m hoping for one of the next group of WRs, or a CB.
The only CB left that I like is Stanley Jean-Baptiste. He might be available with the Eagles’ first third round pick. I wonder what would happen if Kyle Van Noy is still available. If the Eagles would want to convert him from OLB to ILB, would they take him over a WR?
man…. that’d be a tough decision. part of me really wants a WR to have some better depth in case of injury, but what if one of them falls farther?
i could see KVN being converted to ILB. with him and Smith, our LBs would get a pretty serious upgrade (and pretty significantly cheaper once Cole & Ryans are gone)
Potential long-term group of Smith, Van Noy, Kendricks, and Barwin. That could become a lethal group of LBs. How great would it be to see the Eagles have one of the NFL’s best LB groups?
My hope is they trade up to get a WR then pick another OLB, KVN or Attachou.
a friend of mine at the draft wasn’t familiar with Johnny Football’s signature pose, and thought that he looked like he was tweaking some dude’s nipples… hahaha
Is it me . . . or is Manziel’s head the size of Sputnick?
The ears alone might be that big
Re: WRs in this Draft
The WR rankings of the great Packers’ beat writer Bob McGinn had his first 4 guys exactly in the order they came off the board in Rd 1, with No. 6 Benjamin leap-frogging No. 5 Marqise Lee.
McGinn’s rankings are loaded with scout’s comments. (Link below)
______________
My favorite scout quote: “But this is a mean (expletive) that is tough.”
The WR in question? Jarvis Landry.
Landry is nothing but a football player.
______________
Here’s who’s left, in order, from McGinn’s list:
5. Marqise Lee
7. Al Robinson
8. Cody Latimer
9. Jordy Matthews
10. De Adams
11. Jarvis Landry
12. Don Moncrief
13. Marty Bryant
14. Paul Richardson
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-wide-receivers-and-tight-ends-b99258025z1-257423561.html
Thanks AC. This ranks Matthews where I have him. I hope we go WR next!!
Who ’bout that C.J. FIEDOROWICZ, TE from Iowa (6-5½, 266, 4.77, 3-4).
Recruited as a basketball player by WISCONSIN and INDIANA. Impressive.
Didn’t Roseman or Kelly say something not to long ago about liking players who’ve excelled in another sport, especially basketball?
______________
SCOUT’S TAKE:
“He’s an
all-around guy,” said one scout.
“I’d take him over Amaro. He has a
chance to be a good, solid blocker. He doesn’t run real good. He can
catch.” [And this scout doesn’t use the English language very well.]
“He’s dependable, reliable.”
“He’ll be a journeyman No. 3 type,” a third scout
said. “He’s not a starter. He’s just a guy.”
Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-nfl-draft-prospects-wide-receivers-and-tight-ends-b99258025z1-257423561.html#ixzz31Elx2sPK
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter
i want to say you are right about the point of excelling in other sports, but i have no facts to base this on.
I rather Nicklas or Gillmore at TE, if we want another F TE I would go after AC Leonard.