More Minicamp Notes
Posted: June 19th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 87 Comments »Another day of practice means some more practice notes.
Let’s start with Geoff Mosher. He had some good thoughts on Nick Foles.
2. Nick Foles had some zip on his fastball. He made a few throws that spiraled tighter than I’m accustomed to seeing from him. On one deep pass in team drills, he fired a laser to Maclin down the right side despite tight coverage from Bradley Fletcher. Maclin almost came up with the catch, but the ball bounced off his fingertips as he nearly sprawled. Earlier, Foles found Maclin down the left seam in a zone between Connor Barwin and Nate Allen. Just real good placement. Foles, however, did have one his throws deflect off a human flyswatter, which is believed to be the first pass from any QB to get caught by the flyswatter. Mike Vick used to make it a daily achievement.
Foles is picking up right where he left off. Last summer he was battling Mike Vick for a job. This year Foles isn’t getting challenged by anyone so it is encouraging that he is still playing well. He is pushing himself, which is a trait you want in a QB. Some players get a taste of success and let up. Others get distracted by the trappings of success. Foles seems as focused as ever.
Great QBs are driven. They work relentlessly to get better. Foles certainly seems to be a driven player. I think it is going to be very interesting to see how improved he is this season. That effort needs to translate to tangible results.
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Backup QB is a different story. Here is Brandon Lee Gowton with his take on Mark Sanchez and Matt Barkley.
• For the second straight day, second year QB Matt Barkley took some reps with the second group. Sanchez seemed to take more there but it’s interesting to see Barkley getting mixed in. At one point Barkley made a gorgeous throw to Chris Polk running a wheel route down the sideline. Perfect. The next play wasn’t so good. Barkley targeted a WR on an out route and Curtis Marsh jumped it for a pick. A number of reporters (Jimmy Kemspki and Adam Caplan, for example) have been discouraged by Barkley’s performance in these offseason practices. I’m not down on him as they are. Still, Barkley needs to be better.
• Speaking of not bad practices, Mark Sanchez didn’t make an egregious errors by my watch today. He only had one “WTF” throw where no receiver was in the area. It’s clear he’s not 100% comfortable in this offense yet. I imagine time could help with that.
Encouraging to read that about Sanchez. The Barkley notes are more up and down.
Jeff McLane isn’t so high on Barkley.
— It may seem like I’m picking on Matt Barkley, but I really haven’t seen much progress in offseason No. 2. Whether the coaches see something different, or they’re grading with a curve because he’s been working mostly with the third team, what can’t be denied is that his arm strength is relatively the same as it was a year ago and that his accuracy remains suspect. I wrote about quarterback arm strength in today’s newspaper and opened with the importance of completing the 20-yard “out.” Barkley attempted one to Quron Pratt and was intercepted by cornerback Curtis Marsh, who stepped in front of the receiver. I can’t say for certain that Barkley was solely responsible for the pick. Maybe Pratt needed to come back to the ball. But the ball seemed to take unusually long to get there. Marsh broke up another Barkley pass later in practice.
On one pass, Barkley went to receiver Damaris Johnson but he just threw it to an empty space. There was an obvious mix-up on the route, but Chip Kelly took Barkley aside after the play and seemed to be explaining how he wanted him to slide out of the pocket and throw. Kelly mimicked a sidestep move-throw on the run. During target practice (three trash cans are stacked with the third angled toward the quarterbacks) Barkley had the hardest time coming close to the throwing in the bucket. Mark Sanchez swished one toss from about 25 yards out. Nick Foles, who had a relatively steady day again, became the first to hit one of the Michael Vick honorary fly swatter thingamagingys during open practices this spring.
Barkley did have some fine moments. He threaded a downfield pass to receiver B.J. Cunningham into a tight window, hit receiver Josh Huff inside the front end zone pylon during red zone drills and lofted (perhaps with too much arch) a sideline pass to running back Chris Polk, who beat linebacker Jake Knott on a wheel route.
Jimmy Bama was somewhat in the same line of thinking.
• Matt Barkley’s arm strength is a major concern. He attempted to throw an out route that needed to be driven in there, and his pass lacked any kind of velocity at all. It had far too much air under it, and Curtis Marsh was able to jump in front of the intended receiver for an INT. I don’t want to make too much of one throw, but if that was Barkley’s maximum velocity, he’s really going to struggle to stay in the league, in my opinion. You simply can’t give opposing defensive backs that much time to break on a pass. Again, it’s only June and there’s a long way to go before the start of the season, but Barkley’s play so far has been discouraging.
Is it time to get worried about Matt Barkley?
I wish I could be watching him practice so I could offer a valid opinion, but I’m several hundred miles away and can only rely on the words of our beloved Philly reporters.
I won’t say I’m worried about Barkley right now, but he’s certainly got my attention. It is interesting that the coaches mixed him in with the #2 offense some on Wednesday. Were they trying to see how he looked with better players? Were they trying to help his confidence?
Barkley is frustrated that he’s the #3 QB right now. I get that, but he’s got to handle this the right way. He needs to play his best and put the pressure on the coaches to figure out what to do with him. Right now it sounds like Barkley is making their decision easy. Stick with Sanchez.
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Sheil Kapadia had a variety of notes.
1:12 – It’s 7-on-7 time in the red zone. Boykin makes his presence felt, breaking up a Foles pass on first down. Then on third down, he forces an incompletion on a crosser to Jeremy Maclin, and the defense wins the drill.
When the second team gets up, inside linebacker Jason Phillips breaks up a Mark Sanchez pass. But Sanchez bounces back with a completion on a crosser to Matthews for a touchdown.
Barkley dumps it off to Chris Polk a couple times and then fires incomplete to B.J. Cunningham. On his final throw of the series, he finds Josh Huff, who comes down with a great catch in between defenders on an out-breaking route for the touchdown.
With the ones back up, Foles finds Brad Smith on a crossing route for a score. Sanchez, meanwhile, completes three straight to Matthews (his favorite target all spring), including a touchdown.
1:24 – Situational football. During 11-on-11s, the offense starts out on second down. Foles throws a jump-ball to Smith, but Boykin breaks it up. He had a very active practice. Marsh, meanwhile, breaks up a Barkley pass intended for Quron Pratt.
When the ones get back up, Foles looks deep for Maclin on the go-route down the right sideline. It’s a beautiful throw, but Maclin can’t hang on. Tough to see from my angle whether a defender got a hand on it.
Barkley makes perhaps his best throw of the spring, fitting the ball into a tight window on an in-breaking route to Cunningham. He had to squeeze it in between two defenders, and did.
The ones get another shot, and Malcolm Jenkins breaks up a Foles pass on a crossing route intended for Damaris Johnson.
1:39 – Foles has been looking at Brad Smith a lot today. He finds him here on a deep crosser. I still expect Matthews to take over that first-team slot job, but Smith has a good shot of making the team.
Ifeanyi Momah can’t hang on to a high pass from Sanchez.
It sure sounds like Josh Huff is getting better each and every day. I don’t know what his ceiling is for this season. Is he purely a #4 WR? You wonder if Huff could play well enough to force the coaches to mix him into certain packages. He would still be a specialty player, but could have some kind of role. Remember that the #4 WR last year was Jeff Maehl and he caught only 4 passes all year. I’m sure hoping Huff, or whoever is #4, passes that total.
CB Curtis Marsh has made a few plays this summer. Could he push for a roster spot? I sure don’t see that as likely, but he has managed to hang around longer than I expected. He was a raw player coming out of college. This is the first time he’s had the same DBs coach 2 years in a row. Maybe the light is going on for him a bit. Don’t make too much of this, but I certainly hope the young man can have some taste of success. There hasn’t been much to write home about to this point in his career.
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Bob Grotz wrote a good article on FS Malcolm Jenkins.
“I definitely wanted to bring some confidence,” Jenkins said. “Last year we finished 32nd in the league in pass defense. My mentality going out is that’s not OK. I think we should be great. And that’s how I try to go about practice. That’s what I try to instill confidence in other guys is that we should be the best secondary in the league, and that’s what we’re preparing to do. So, I guess if that brings confidence, it brings confidence. But that’s what I believe. Every time we step on the field we want to be the best. And I think guys are starting to buy into that.”
And
Jenkins credited Wolff’s hard work for Wolff’s improvement. At the same time, Jenkins senses Wolff didn’t have a mentor as he had when he learned the game from such veteran Saints as Jonathan Vilma, Darren Sharper and Roman Harper.
“I don’t think he’s really had that role model, I guess, to really teach him how to study or teach him how to watch film,” Jenkins said of Wolff. “And that’s where he is right now. He’s got all the physical attributes you need from a safety. He’s young, fast, he can cover. He’s just got to learn the game and really take over the safety position where he can make all the calls, see things before they happen and get guys lined up. Once he gets there I think he’ll be a good player.”
Among other issues plaguing the Eagles’ defense last year was the tackling, particularly at safety. Veteran Nate Allen was steady. He was re-signed. Patrick Chung was released.
Allen’s fans, by the way, will find Jenkins’ assessment of Allen fascinating.
“Nate, he’s one of those guys who you just want to cut it loose,” Jenkins said. “He knows what to do. He knows the defense. He’s always in the right spot. He’s just got to cut it loose when he sees it because he does see it. You can see it on tape. He just needs to let it go. He plays a little cautious at times. But that’s the good thing about having a vet. You know he’s going to do the right thing and he’s going to be in the right place at the right time.”
Good stuff.
Last year there was no real veteran Safety. Nate Allen was adjusting to playing behind the 3-4 and fighting for his own job. Patrick Chung was on a new team with a new scheme. He was learning and couldn’t be teaching.
Jenkins played behind a 3-4 last year. Plus, he has started 57 of the past 64 games. Jenkins is a durable veteran who has played in multiple schemes and for various coaches. He can teach young guys how to deal with life in the NFL. That might mean explaining a concept on the field or something as simple as how to take notes in the classroom.
Kelly wants high character, smart players like Jenkins. We’ll see if he pans out this year.
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Jenkins coming in doing a lot of talking so far… lets hope he can back it up and shine like sconces
Jenkins could end up being completely mediocre and he still would be a drastic improvement over Patrick Chung last year.
He is a drastic upgrade to anything this city has seen since Mikkell and Dawk left
What a jerk, answering reporters questions…
How dare he!!!
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Jenkins was also spadaros guest yesterday… Pretty good interview. Think Jenkins is huge for us
I get what he’s saying. Jenkins comes off like “I’m better than everyone” and “oh, he’s never been a mentor so I’m his mentor” stuff. He’s self appointing him a lot of things and yet, he hasn’t seen a snap as an Eagle in a regular season game. I just hope he’s half as good as he think he is…
just a side note — I wouldn’t expect Jenkins to come out and say Allen sucks. He said the right things. Just over the top a bit. Maybe that’s my issue with how Jenk’s talks … embellishes a bit
I don’t know, is it so outlandish a guy who’s started almost 60 games thinks he can mentor a guy who’s played in like five? Jenkins has never been benched; he left NO because they changed their defense and he didn’t fit anymore.
Especially when Wolff is deferring to him, running around telling trainers how much better Malcolm is going to make him
Leaders lead by leading…not by telling everyone he’s the new leader. Jenks is also coming in to new system…
It’s not like he’s standing out front of the Novacare shouting this stuff, though. Aren’t reporters asking him questions about it especially in the wake of all of Chip’s talk about finding a QB for the secondary?
In fairness, he was signed and ANNOINTED as the QB of our secondary,,,kind of view him as not shying away for his responsibility more than being better than everyone,…we are placing a big burden on him, don’t think it’s bad to see him embrace it
n talking negative about other players, pretty much calling out nate allen. not saying it isnt what we need because it is, but if he doesnt make plays..nevermind nate allen wont ever say ish… lol
He really wasn’t negative about Allen though. Those of us that aren’t in the OMG NATE SUXXXX because he had two bad years behind the wide nine, recognize that Nate’s biggest problem is confidence. Last year he was in position and didn’t give up huge plays. However years of abuse as well as playing alongside Chung/a rookie, kept him from being aggressive. That’s not really a negative. A negative would have been if he said Nate wasn’t athletic enough, or just wasn’t plain smart enough. Instead he simply pointed out that Nate is both of those things, and Malcolm is just trying to get him to react and play more instinctively.
usually you dont hear teammates calling out players about their weaknesses like that in the media.
Now we should go back and ask nate what he thinks malcom needs to improve on. lmfao
Pedant alert on QB column: I have never seen Foles throw a 20 yard out. He has thrown some roughly ten yard outs, most of them to Djax comeback routes. I could be wrong, but I would have been *very* interested and would likely remember any twenty yard out. That is just not a trivial throw. Not just an out, but a deep one that is generally pretty dangerous to throw. Geno Smith could do it, and Andrew Luck cannot–at least do it without thinking “iffy”. If Foles could do that, I don’t think we’d be having this conversation.
Asshole alert: I really, really, really, hate arm strength ‘splaining. Nobody who *clearly* has the arm strength needed to play ever gets much justifying of arm strength. Lots and lots and lots of QBs who do not have the arm strength to play have had defenders going on about “can make all the throws” until it’s dead obvious that they can’t really do that. Even if some writer feels the urge, they should never write stuff like that. Any cynical bystander is going to look and assume the other way!
Of course, part of the issue is that Foles isn’t anywhere near McNabb’s class when it comes to passing ability (not just arm strength), and he’s a midget compared to Vick. When it comes right down to it, Kevin Kolb is a better passer than Foles, pretty much from the start. Foles has a *very* long way to go, and we shouldn’t underestimate how much better he has to be, just to keep his job.
now, I’m going to go back and read about the rest of the team and minicamp…
Foles has thrown outs to corner routes that deep, but those were all lofted, and I am usually thinking of zip or low arc over coverage lb type throws.
So, we have moved from, “If Foles could do that, I don’t think we’d be having this conversation.” to, yeah, okay, he has done that but not in the way that I picture it in my head?
Out of curiosity, were the ones in you’re head completed?Because I seem to remember the real life ones were.
These were the type of catches I instantly thought of. I’m thinking of that ridiculous one handed catch Avant had (2012?) and a couple of the fades to Ertz.
Joe Webb, Kapernick, Vick, McNabb and now apparently Geno. The guys you think are the model of what a QB should be: big arm, and athletic.
What do they all have in common?
None have a completion percentage over 60%.
Let me guess you think completion percentage is stupid. Because you know throwing the ball works better when it’s incomplete obviously. Also, something something, “creating first downs on tough third downs with their legs”, blah blah (insert subjective observation), blah blah blah (criticize Foles here). Finish with ridiculous hyperbole.
Just saved you from having to reply.
I noticed something interesting with Vick’s stats. His YPA and his yards per rush are both 7.1. I couldn’t find an official benchmark, but 7 seems to be around average passer territory.
But wait, think of all the great plays Vick made with his legs! You must consider those plays when looking at his YPA.
Not so much. If you think of every Vick run throughout his career as a completed pass, to himself, his YPA is still 7.1.
I guess I am not factoring in his “probing” ability or his “ability to take yards when he wants them.” Then again, why wouldn’t he always want them?
a ? 4 U…how many games has Vick missed because he threw a 7.1 yrd completion, as opposed to those 7.1 yrd runs?
I see where you are going, and I agree that letting the receiver take the hit is preferred from a team perspective, but I am not sure about the answer to your question.
I remember being at Lehigh the last year they trained there and watching Vick try to throw a diving to the side while flicking the ball 30 yards pass.
This was during a non contact drill.
No one touched him.
He came off the field limping.
Late night crank writing to the editor generates lots of replies! I was thinking of Geno as a “bad” QB who could do it.
And honestly? I don’t care about completion percentage. If I care about any stats at all, it’s Y/A and its variants. What I *do* care about is the QB making a number of indefensible passes, because that’s what will do most of the real winning. A well thrown out, especially deep, is a very big money play. So when you anticipate the season to come, it’s a lot more important to see how well Foles does with the harder passes, away from the set of passes he prefers to throw. One can talk about completion percentage (Christian Ponder did before the 2013 season) but that is almost irrelevant to accuracy, let alone a good judge of QB’ing. Vick has never had a very high completion percentage, but he was and is one of the most absurdly accurate QBs in the NFL. I am long used to ignoring people who play games to pretend that he is inaccurate.
Still, it is kind of amazing just how “all in” so many fans are. The gaudy numbers do help. However, the odds are really not in our favor for a good season.
Don’t you ever get tired of being a total clown?
I post 200 times a day, there is a reason that out of all the zillions of posts I ever made, not one time have I EVER commented on his posts…
Luck couldn’t throw a 20 yard out?
For the record, I’ve seen Luck complete a low arc 50 yard pass rolling out to his left to win a game.
Of course, part of the issue is that Foles isn’t anywhere near McNabb’s class when it comes to passing ability (not just arm strength), and he’s a midget compared to Vick.
according to NFL.com, Vick is 6-0 and Foles is 6-6.
maybe i’m misunderstanding this. is ‘midget’ somehow a measure of arm strength or something other than height?
I think, by weight, it’s at least 99% arm strength. It couldn’t be accuracy or touch, which were never Vick’s or McNabb’s strengths.
i’m going to rephrase this part just a bit
Foles has a *very* long way to go, and we shouldn’t underestimate how much better he has to be
to
Foles has a very long way that he *can* go, and we shouldn’t underestimate how much better he *can* be
while i am with in that i think it is silly to give Foles the presidential treatment after one year, i think it is just as silly to treat him like he’s worse than Bobby Hoying. the guy has played for one year and put up some pretty good numbers. he has a lot of room to improve and we all should hope he only gets better with more experience.
Thing is, being better is almost certainly going to mean being a more ambitious passer–with higher INTs and lower comp%. TD% will be contextual to what exactly is going on. Anyways, a better Foles is going to have not nearly as exciting numbers, I suspect. He’s not going to be sitting back and holding the ball forever for a defensive breakdown all the time. He’s not going to stick to easy catch lofted balls that his receiver can muscle everyone else out for all the time. He’s not going to avoid doing any sort of slant, and will make accurate and zippy throws to the sidelines 8+ yards past the LOS.
The plus side is: We’d be a lot more likely to win games against good teams on their game.
Not sure why I wasn’t familiar with Bob Grotz but the other day he broke down our defense more accurately than i heard 95% of our media do. I was pretty impressed with his defensive analysis…
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Great to see Marsh step up…I really really think his eagles career is about to come to end, but the more people step up in practice, the better the competition…so go marsh!! It’s not going to be easy for Roc and marsh to fight there way on this roster.
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I get the Barkley bashing, but n reality. Is a fourth round QB really supposed to look great at the beginning of offseason 2? It’s a weird situation because he was touted for how he was so developed coming out of school, yet for sy, he seems nothing more than a developmental project…..now that we getting Barkley intel from OTAs I’m pretty darn thankful for signing the fumbling frat boy….I have so much more confidence in Chip turning Sanchez into a capable player than I do Barkley. Now that the barking bashing is out of the way, he really has only been here a little longer then a year…think it’s too soon to RIP him
yea, i really don’t know what to make of Barkley at this point. i didn’t think he was supposed to be that much of a project at QB, but for a 4th rd pick, its all right if he is. i just hope that either him or Sanchez step up in camp to solidify that #2 spot
Yeah…it does look like signing Sanchez was a pretty solid idea
can you point me to the Grotz article? TIA
No it was a video…he was a guest of rea Hughes at camp this week and it’s a video of Rhea and him talking in front of Novacare..you can find it in the CSNPhilly.com site in the video archives..it’s only two or three days old
Could be that this coaching regime is as intrigued by Marsh’s physical skillset as the last one was. I feel like every coaching staff that has ever been assembled feels like they’re the ones who can coax the potential out of X prospect.
Not many guys who play corner with his size, athleticism package.
http://mockdraftable.com/player/480/
Thing with marsh! he probably isn’t even really competing with the cornerbacks… I see no realistic chance of him taking a roster spot from Cary,Brad,Boykin,Nolan or Jaylen and I don’t think we are automatically going to keep 6 corners. I suspect that if we keep a 6th CB, he would have had to beat out players at other positions for a roster spot….so marsh probably really isn’t even competing with the corners, he is competing with other fringe roster players at all the other positions…so for example! he would have to be more valuable as a 6th CB than Rejus Benn is as a 6th WR…
not that its in any way accurate at all, but this is the first thing i thought of when i saw his graph…
http://offtherecordsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Jimmy-Clausen1.jpg
I posted that same picture when we drafted Ed Reynolds, BEHOLD! http://mockdraftable.com/player/4588/
OH MY GOD
Last night NFL network continued it’s top 100 countdown..
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Two things stuck out:
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Glad to see Bills DE Kyle Williams get the proper respect he deserves finishing with a good ranking in the early 30s…he been a very good player for a while now, and I rarely see him get his respect….that DL pairing of Williams and Marcel Dareus is NASTY for the bills
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People got on Lane’s Rocky start during the year, and Kyle long got a lot of praise last year, but Long had his fair share of struggles as well giving up sack fumbles that were returned for TD… Kyle is a pretty cool dude tho. He is a great interview and really fun on twitter..he would fit in great with our line…I always screw with him about how he wears his eagles pajamas with the feet attached at night when all his bears team mates aren’t around, and how he would be the perfect eventual replacement for Herremans! blocking for the great Nick FOles…..Lane! Kyle Long and Kelce would be a badass right side of our line. Unfortunately he snuck into round 1 so the bears have a 5th year option on his deal
Honest question: when was the last time an Eagles team seemed like it had this much depth? We had some great times under Andy, but I never felt like we had good backups…I was only 18yrs old during Reid/Mcnabb 1999-2000 season…but when do people think was the last time and eagles team was this deep?
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I’m starting to get really nervous about only having 53 roster spots. So many promising young players that I do not want to lose at this point in their development…for example, It will be a kick to my nuts if someone poaches Villanueva off our practice squad…besides BG, Nate Allen, who else’s contract expires at the end of the season..
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I also have a question about how compensatory picks work…the Nate Allen situation..his rookie contract has expired, and we gave him a 1yr deal…say another team signs him next March, would he still count as part of the compensatory equation, or do you only get compensated for losing a player who’s rookie contract expired? Basically does giving an expiring rookie a 1yr deal, end his eligibility down the line to factor him into the compensatory equation if you lose him?
I think you can get comp picks for any guy you lose to FA. However, it is based on net change, and factors in the size of the deal the guy gets elsewhere pretty heavily. Nate wouldn’t have gotten us anything this year, and it seems unlikely he gets an offer that brings us a comp worth getting excited about next year.
Nate certainly won’t ever put a dent in the compensatory equation…just used him as an example for eligibility… Thank you for the intel
Doesn’t Maclin have a one year deal?
Yes. But I kind of assume he will be extended mid season
Last day of OTAs… I’m soooooo not ready for 6 weeks of eagles silence,,.the one saving grace is the next time we see our beloved birds, it will be training camp. Preseason is around the corner,,,,going to be a lot of fun watching our young backups in pre season games…don’t think I have ever been this excited about watching the 3rd and 4th quarters of an eagles preseason game…expecting it to be the huff n Saint Jordan show…
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Also like to see where Braman and Long are at in terms of NFL OLB development…and get a glimpse of our young backups on the OL
There’s a reason Barkley was a 4th round pick and Sanchez lost his starting job on a lousy Jets team.
Sanchez got hurt and missed last year.
That’s not why he’s not starting in NY.
Nick Foles was crazy good last year.
http://www.footballperspective.com/2013-rearview-adjusted-net-yards-per-attempt/
The interesting stat to me was the SOS comparison between Vick and Foles. In the end, according to that chart, Vick’s numbers last year were even more questionable the Foles’s. Don’t know how much confidence I have in the methodology, but it’s an interesting counterpoint to the narrative pushed in certain parts that Vick played against significantly better defenses last year.
Similarly, seeing Eli put up that awful season against the schedule really reinforces just how bad he was last year. That may portend the end of a career…
Foles faced just one team that made it into the playoffs, who was without their star QB at the time.
Vick faced three teams, who, overall, had 2-2 postseason record. Two of them in brutally compressed schedule stretch.
Foles faced just one very strong defense that played well during the game, Arizona. And two more usually competent defenses in Tampa (who did not play well) and NYG (and even then this was about a half of meaningful football).
There is pretty good reason to question the methodology. The flat face of the evidence sez that Vick played the hard part of the schedule.
yes and Vick was early on in learning a new system. Cant dispute that. You can however use your eye test and dispute the quality of play overall. I find that people saying Foles played weak competition to be a bit dishonest when we all understand there are never easy wins in the league. He also is very young and learning and didnt play awful against better teams. Ill take the NO game as a final quality outing, could have been better but they also could and should have wont that game to a large degree. So many great QBs over time have won games after playing terrible or just have bad outings. I cant stand everyone summing everything up based on stats in a neat little box. We also need more time to see Foles, this seasons schedule will do that. 2nd year for him and defenses against CK.
I’ve gotta say, as a foreigner, my hate against the division rivals goes like this:
– Dallas cowboys: worst fan base, pretty much sum up what I hate about America
– Washington Redskins: Dellisional fans that annoys you by thinking they are the best but in the end they just argue with themselves.
-New York Giants: The team I can live with because they are good (started watching football in the 00’s) and it is a sports rivalry, and they are after us the classy organisation of the Beast, but I’ve gotta say if I’m ok with the fans (bad fans of NY cheers for the Jets) if those players don’t shut their mouth, yes I’m talking to you antrel rolle, I’m going to reconsider this list. And I actually do, maybe it’s a blasphemy but I think the cowboys players look to be nice people in general (witten, ware, sean lee,…). I feel bad for them to play/have played there.
Let me sum up what I hate about the French/W Euros:
The fact that you feel it is okay to come on to a forum dominated by Americans and point out that you hate us just puts your douche baggery on wonderful display. You people think that you are better than Americans in just about every way, and are completely blind to your own hilarious short comings.
Holler at me when Putin is beating your door down.
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To the rest of the members: I don’t want to hear it! You know you agree.
Man chill out, I say there are things I hate about America just like there are things I hate about France, I don’t know how you can take this personally or you are just blindly patriotic. And you don’t know me to jump to the conclusion that I feel better than you, how can you say that?
Ok my bad I didn’t see your Putin comment, aha, let’s keep it to football talk then instead you want to share me your opinion about the reds coming back and the fact I should prepare myself for WW3
Ok that was just being a dick. I’ll give you that.
You took it there boss, not me. Had nothing to do with being a patriot. More of a disdain for ignorant, condescending Europeans.
Well first if you want to have some viable argument let’s say that you find that I am an ignorant condescending european, let’s not jump to the conclusion that all of them are like me. Then if you think it is condescending to say there are things I hate about America I am sorry but you should not. I actually respect and like this country a lot.
or were you saying Dallas fans represent the rest of America? I was confused by your comment….
He wasn’t saying that. Not in the original post tumtum ranted about. I can’t speak for frencheaglesfan secret feelings, but he didn’t wrote that.
“Dallas cowboys: worst fan base, pretty much sum up what I hate about America”
Seems pretty clear to me. But as a European this guy needs to take a look in the mirror in all honesty because Europe is just America: East.
Exactly Neil, I say what I hate about America but there are things I also hate about Europe and France. I’m sorry guys I never thought it was going to be taken and interpretated like this, next time I speak about America I will try to be more political. But what I meant by that is that I really think America has the best and the worst things at the same time. Things I hate, just to name a few:- intolerancy, against gays, blacks, religions, I still can’t understand how those whittiesonsider themselves as true americans when they are exactly the same kind of people (poor people oppressed in their home country looking for a better life), Then I must say (and I hope you guys are not offended by this even though it’s a really sensitive subject) I can’t stand the vision some Americans have regarding war and their “war hero”. They are no hero in war, your marines are brave but they need to be cry not cheers when they are sent to be killed in a guerilla or in a civilian explosion for doubtful reasons(how is it going with the democracy in Irak right now?) there are other things but less annoying. Here me guys, I’m not saying that for bad intentions I already told you there are multiple things I hate about France and Europe, to name a few, we are the country of the human rights and now our first political party is an extreme right wing, against imigration and Europe (it is the case in a lot of Europeans countries and last time the rise of the extremism happened like this we all know what was next) The way some french go strike for no reason except saalary and are parlayzing our economies, I hate arrogants french too (even though some of you may think I am one of them, aha)…. There are multiple things t hate and love about a country. So end of the debate, that was not what I wanted you people to focus on in my post. I bleed green and I love the eagles that is what matters.
I hear you, man. I wasn’t bothered by your initial comment at all because I know why you would feel that way. You didn’t talk about your feelings about your own nation initially, which is where my comments that are somewhat critical of you came from, and in hindsight they were premature and unwarranted. But the only thing that really bothered me is Tum taking it personal and acting like it’s somehow wrong for you or me to feel this way about the US.
Wtf? As a european fan by myself, I’m offended by this rant. He wrote:
– Dallas cowboys: worst fan base, pretty much sum up what I hate about America
Is it an american privilege to hate SOMETHING about America? Do you have to love everything America ever did to be welcomed in your world?
And I’m not even start about the differnces of opinions in the US – think about Alaska vs New York, f.e.
Why raise the point in this venue?
Why react that way? He didn’t say he hates America. He said there are things that he hates, and I would argue there are things a right wing American hates about his country as well as there are things a left wing American hates about his country. As long as you hate certain things, I don’t know why you have to attack him this way.
He wasn’t acting like a dick, you are.
When people here in Germany tell me how they don’t like America, I tell them that there are ignorant idiots all over the world, in every country. I sure hope you’re not that type of person, but your reaction seemed like it.
He stepped on a nerve because that is a clear bias mindset that I have personally encountered many times. Then you have the self loathing Americans who really bring it out in me (Neil).
Sorry to lash out, but it struck a nerve. I certainly wouldn’t go to a German football forum, if I were a fan, and talk about how a German team represents what I hate about Germany (its a beautiful country, I really don’t).
Tired of being a punching bag for hipster American douche baggery, and “better than you” Euros is all.
Really that’s the last I am going to say on it. I don’t hate the guy, I was just upset by the comment. I’ll be glad to talk Football.
It’s telling all you can do to refute me is call me a hipster.
If it tells you that I recognize that I started something that Tommy would pretty obviously not enjoy on his site, and intend to end it. Then, you are not as narrow minded as I thought.
Well done sir.
Anyway, I think we can both agree we need to care a little less what the opinions of idiots are.
I’ve been thinking about this dude. You see what’s wrong with calling people names while not engaging them? That’s a low, low move, down and dirty like a snake. If you don’t want to engage me, fine, but don’t start some smear campaign on the side.
OK, that’s sounds way more reasonable than your first response. I still don’t see the problem (since he was hating specific things for which, in his opinion, the Cowboys fans stand for and not hating America as a country or Americans as people), but OK, as long as you don’t generalize and rant like you did in the first response, I can life with that.
As an American I gotta say I didn’t find anything offensive about his post at all.
I find it hard to fathom getting worked up over anyone criticising America when our people are the fattest and laziest on earth. Our cars are about 3 times as big as they need to be. People buy enormous pickup trucks that should be reserved for hauling to drive to work. We grow grass only to cut it every week and throw it in the garbage, not compost it or feed it to animals. Et cetera. You want a nation that has cultivated wasted, futile energy expenditure to the highest form ever known, look no further. That’s while ignoring all of our imperialistic adventures which only serve to create wanton destruction and suffering for by and large innocent people, who, surprisingly, end up hating us. Then none of the American citizens can understand why, of course.
I’m American and I can’t wait until this whole thing is dead and gone. You’re not mad at this guy; you’re mad at the truth. If what he was saying wasn’t true, it wouldn’t hurt.
It is funny coming from a European though because Europe is almost as bad and 100% complicit and usually participating in everything we do globally.
But hey, China’s catching up across the board!
Sure, if their economy doesn’t suffer a massive dislocation from their insane monetary policies first. But then again the same can be said of the whole Western world. It’s like a big race to perdition.
Well I see where this is going. Its spiraling way out of control, and this is not the place for that discussion. I’ll only go as far to say that you clearly have no idea what upset me.
You really need to broaden the way you look at things.
I’d love to hear how I can broaden my perspective, actually.
as an american, this matches my view of the rest of the division pretty damn well.
I agree with the rankings, I respect the Giant’s organization as a rival. The rest of them are hated enemies.
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Woah everyone, peace and love, we all fly midnight green in these parts. Just some miscommunication and no offense intended as I see it.
FEF, a brief history, as you know, Dallas is reviled by Eagles fans. One of the reasons: dubbed “America’s Team”, so outstandingly ludicrous to Eagles’ fans, back in the 70’s, we hate seeing seeing any reference to the Cowboys being a representative of America, a flag under which we all reside.
The second part is cultural, it’s deep ingrained in American culture where “we the people” is taken pretty seriously. So you may say “things I hate about America” and it can be interpreted as, “Things I hate about Americans”, which due to patriotism is a large and diverse group we all identify strongly with. It would be akin to saying “things I hate about “. Basically I’m saying things can get personal fast. And yes, it is linked to an uncommon level of patriotism.
Moral of the story is: we all despise Dallas too, it’s best not to go identifying them as synonymous with our nation. Now if you say “everything I hate about Texas”..I’m all on board for that brand of ignorance!
hmm. maybe i’m the weird one, then. i don’t mean for this to get all political, so perhaps its better off not saying too much…
i think what he was going for was more that our view of Texas is how the rest of the world sees the USA as a whole.
i’m sure that if the Cowboys were from a different state, we’d all still hate Texas for most of the same reasons 😛
I’m not saying everyone feels that way at all, or myself for that matter (I actually agreed with the OP). Just trying to explain why criticizing someone’s country can be like criticizing someone’s faith, race, etc. It’s a minefield to be avoided. 1 false step, somethin is gonna blow up.
You’re probably right about Texas though, hah.