Dumb Rumor Day
Posted: January 21st, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 203 Comments »We all love a good rumor, but sometimes these things get silly. Some guy today had the rumor that the Eagles are trying to trade Nick Foles. Uh, okay. I could see that. Let’s have Matt Barkley and GJ Kinne atop the QB depth chart. You could argue that moving Foles would involve a move up in the draft, but there are no guarantees the right guy would be available. This kind of rumor just seems crazy.
Could Foles be on the market at some point in the next few months? Sure, anything is possible. But it only makes sense if there are other moves that happen. Until they do, Nick Foles isn’t going anywhere.
We also have the reports about Chip Kelly moving up for Marcus Mariota. This is pure fantasy material. I cannot imagine anyway that guy gets out of the Top 10. Do you really think the Rams would pass on him to go with Sam Bradford, Austin Davis and Shaun Hill? Jeff Fisher is in desperate need of a QB. Mariota is big and athletic, which is exactly what Fisher loves.
You can argue that Mariota would fall to pick 7 or 8 or 9 and the Eagles could then move up for him. But the Rams can move up as well, and the trading team would still be able to have a Top 10 pick. And there are teams other than the Rams who could be interested in moving up for him.
And I still think the Bucs will go for a QB. Winston or Mariota? I tend to think Mariota, but never say never.
* * * * *
Jeff Stoutland gave a big hug to QB Blake Sims today. Stout was at Bama when Sims was the backup QB there. Sims seemed genuinely excited to talk to his old coach.
Stoutland also chased down an O-lineman when the players were leaving practice. There was a crowd of people between me and Stoutland, but it looked like he was talking to Max Garcia from Florida. I don’t know if they’re old acquaintances (college recruiting possibly) our Stout was trying to set up an interview.
Stoutland also has some ties to WR Phillip Dorsett. Eliot Shorr-Parks has that story.
* * * * *
Of the Safeties, I thought Kurtis Drummond had the best day. He looked good in press coverage. Drummond is very physical and able to stick with receivers. He also had a big hit on a TE today.
Clayton Geathers was up and down. I spoke to him after practice and Geathers said he did meet with the Eagles last night. He’s a nice enough kid, but I don’t think he wowed anyone in an interview. Geathers is still a solid prospect, but he won’t be at the top of the list.
Here are my notes on the North’s practice from Wednesday.
I’ll post my notes on the South later tonight or early Thursday.
* * * * *
There is one player I need to mention here. QB Bryan Bennett was added to the South roster. Normally this wouldn’t be a huge deal, but this is different. Bennett played for Oregon from 2010-2012. When Bennett lost the battle for the starting job to a kid named Marcus Mariota, he transferred.
Bennett ended up at SE Louisiana. He had a terrific career there in 2013 and 2014. He threw for 39 TDs and ran for 31, and also led the school to a pair of FCS playoff berths.
Beyond the Oregon connection, Bennett is newsworthy because he was the best QB on the field for the South today. Bennett has a good arm and smooth motion. He threw the ball well short, intermediate and deep. His timing wasn’t there with the receivers so it was hard to judge his accuracy.
New rumor…my sources tell me the Eagles are prepared to do whatever it takes to get Bennett. Expect them to trade Foles, McCoy, Peters, Cox, Kendricks and half a dozen future 1st round picks.
Bryan Bennett isn’t getting away from Chip Kelly this time!!!
_
St Louis doesn’t have Foles to offer in a trade. Also, does mariota even fit the rams system? This may be a case where a guy is much more valuable to one specific team…drafting a ‘system’ QB isn’t a good thing…unless it’s your system.
more and more i read, the more and more i think this is a legitimate possibility.
I don’t get the whole screw Foles he’s shit, we must get Marriota, but Foles is worth a ton in a trade up because he’s such a good QB, that team all desperately crave him.
Huh?
i guess you missed reid doing this twice with feely and kolb?
Name me the last trade for a QB that worked for a team.
GM’s know the answer to that one too.
Players used to play with leather helmets too, doesn’t mean that in anyway influences my expectations of what’s realistic.
Alex Smith to the Chiefs has worked pretty well for them. Actually, off the top of my head, Montana to the Chiefs (yes I know, ages ago) worked pretty well for both teams.
You assume more intelligence from GMs than I do. In fact, my general rule of life is that ‘people are stupid.’
Ok well then GM’s are stupid lets give the Bucs a 7th round pick for Marriota.
You don’t need to assume intelligence, but you have to at least assume people are rational actors.
Also I would disagree that it’s worked out well for them. With us at least we have the hope that Foles is young and there may be some room for improvement. The chiefs have a super mediocre QB, who can’t throw a TD to a WR, but is 30.
If a GM gives us Mariotta for a similar compensation package to what a team picking 10 to 15 spots better in the draft will give up, because we throw in Foles, a highly inconsistent QB? That’s beyond stupid. That GM will be fired instantly. There’s no way he can sell that, to his owner, or to his fanbase.
I agree with you in principal about being rational. I will counter that with every single year, we see a GM do something completely idiotic. Last year it was the Bills trade for Sammy Watkins in a receiver loaded draft. The RG3 trade was actually considered by some analysts a good trade at one point for the Redskins. Now, we laugh our a$$es off about it.
I’m not in favor of trading Nick. I think it’s foolish to trade the one QB who’s proven he can win in Kelly’s system. I don’t think we have a realistic shot of trading for Mariota barring an Aaron Rodgers type fall which I don’t see happening. I’ve been wrong before and I’ve been shocked before. I surely didn’t predict the Eagles taking Marcus Smith the 2nd with their number one pick when most draft publications had him listed as a 3rd round or later guy.
The difference is those are young dynamic players, you can sell a fan base and owner on those guys. You’re not selling 10k season tickets in the 24 hours after you trade for Nick Foles.
Also for fucks sake. It keeps getting worse and worse. The story will eventually be Marcus Smith was supposed to be a UDFA. I’m sorry Kiper and WalterFootball didn’t have him as a first round pick, but there was nothing wrong with the pick. Optimum Scouting (a much much much better source for that stuff) had him as the 33rd player on his big board. Daniel Jeremiah tweeted a week before the draft that MSII was going to go top 35. They moved back, drafted an athletic, long, productive player at a premium position.
To me, even if the Eagles managed to pull it off and trade the cream of their next two drafts + Foles to get Mariota, we wouldn’t need to look very far to identify the
team making the crazy, irrational move in this year’s draft.
Fair point. I love Mariota but am honest enough with myself to think that there’s about a 1% chance the Eagles actually trade up for him. If they do, you are correct, it will almost have to be a huge overpayment to get there which will prevent the team from improving enough to make his acquisition worthwhile. Only way this works out well for Philly is if Mariota falls for some reason and I’m honest enough with myself to understand that’s almost certain not to happen.
Do you mean the noodle arm Alex Smith that went an entire season without throwing a TD pass to a wide receiver, and didn’t make the playoffs?
Yep, the same team that had back to back winning seasons after years of absolute futility. That’s the one.
You’re saying the reason they were successful is beceaus of Alex Smith – and not their defense or Jamal Charles?
In 2014, Smith is the 23rd ranked QB with a rating of 49.4.
I wish I were in a fantasy league with you. Smith was available on waivers the entire season in my league. You can have him.
I don’t give a damn about fantasy. I don’t play it and whether a QB earns 50 fantasy points or 2 isn’t important to me. Smith has won consistently both his last year in SF and now two years in KC. He’s not a future HOF and I tend to agree with the arm criticsm but you can’t ignore his winning. Charles was on that team and much of the defensive talent was on that team before Reid and Smith arrived. They were horrible!
They weren’t horrible. They made the playoffs in 2010 with a 10-6 record. Then went 7-9 in 2011, then 2-14 in 2012. Like the Eagles, they were a bad team with good players.
You’re giving too much credit to the quarterback, and none to the coaches and other players. Smith was not the biggest reason for their success – was has gone downhill this year.
In the past decade, the Chiefs have had a total of five winning seasons. They only had back to back winning seasons one other time and you have to go back to 2005 2006 for that. Reid and Smith both deserve credit for getting that franchise back on a winning track.
The initial question was ‘when’s the last time a qb trade worked out’ and I still think Smith is a viable answer. No, he’s not a great talent. Guys who become available in trades are either high talent never proved it or mediocre talents who max their abilities. Smith is in the latter category. Favre was in the former. D3FB’s right to point out that QB trades rarely work out, but I just wanted to point out that they do work on occasion.
Considering the Chiefs QB before Smith was Matt Cassell, I suppose two # 2 draft picks was worth giving up for him.
Thought of another trade that really worked out for a team. Green Bay trading for Brett Favre. Stole him from Atlanta..
To give you some perspective on that trade: I was < 1 year old, the team from DC were Super Bowl Champs and Michael Jackson's Black or White was the top song on the charts.
Point remains, D3FB. You asked for viable QB trades that worked. I’ve mentioned three. You’re correct, the vast majority of them do not work, but teams will keep trying because they think they will be the exception. Just so we’re clear, I do not want the Eagles to trade Nick, but there would be at least some market for him. I also agree with you that getting a 2nd for him might be too rich for most if not all teams.
They were traded for second round picks. And the teams they were traded to didn’t have the first pick in the draft and were willing to pass up on Mariota.
I think there are some angles on this front.
Chip’s “system.”
Mariota’s not “pro ready.”
Chip is a “college coach.”
“27-2”
I don’t think Nick is part of a package for Mariota in real life. But I do think he has Alex Smith trade value (as we’ve discussed). Which I would take for him, and could in theory help put together a deal for Mariota.
So trade him for 2 2nds (which we disagree on as valuation but for sake of the hypothetical) and then say Hey Tampa?Tenn instead of the Rams 3 1st, 3 2nds and a couple 4ths, take our 3 first, 3 seconds, some other suckers 2 2nds and a couple 4ths, ignoring the fact that all those picks are in the 20s except for the ones we fleeced?
I don’t think the Rams package would need to be that large to move up. But I get your point.
Honestly, my big thing is extracting value for Nick Foles. I don’t consider him part of the future, and this is the last year we can get a return for him (in theory).
I realize its not a popular opinion here. And I’m not against going into next year with Nick as our starter. I just don’t think we’ll ever win a Super Bowl with him.
You’re overvaluing Foles. And if you’re the Bucs, you want to trade the first pick to a lousy team that will give you high first round draft picks for the next few years. The Eagles are a good team that will most likely have low first round picks. They’re not a desirable team to trade with – even with Foles. And their are lots of QB needy teams in the top 10.
The “Kelly will trade up for Mariota” stuff has to stop. As you point out, even if he were willing to trade the farm, he’d need a willing partner. The Bucs, Rams, Jets, etc. are all drafting high and need quarterbacks. WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.
We are in the NFL’s stupid season, though.
I find the IT WILL NOT HAPPEN to be as obnoxious as the IT WILL HAPPEN. I highly suspect it won’t happen. It would take an incredible set of circumstances for it to occur. Doesn’t mean it can’t or that it won’t. As I mentioned to Tyler, people are stupid. This includes not only fans, but teams and GMs as well.
I find talking about completely ludicrous, unrealistic scenarios to be a complete waste of time. It’s very difficult to trade low value assets for high value ones. All we have in this draft is low value assets. It is doubly difficult when there are other people who do have high value assets who want to make the same trade. It is triply difficult when the team you want to trade with has a strong incentive not to trade at all (as any team with Mike Glennon and Josh McCown as its QBs drafting first in a draft with a franchise QB prospect does). We might as well be talking about calling the Seahawks and asking for Wilson, Sherman, Lynch, Thomas, and Wagner in exchange for a package of Riley Cooper, Emmanuel Acho, and Chris Maragos. It’s a trade that wouldn’t even be possible in Madden and hence I find all-capping “it will not happen” to be perfectly justifiable.
Just another brutal off season. It feels like Jan 2013 all over again.
“Chip Kelly only took the Eagles job because of Vick knows how o run” “Hiring Kelly was the death knell for Foles” “Foles can’t run Kelly’s offense” “Eagles are trading Foles to Andy in KC” “Eagles are drafting Geno Smith”
I think it’s worst this year. I saw one a few days ago that said Tampa will bypass Mariota because they have Glennon. You can’t make this stuff up.
Yea but Russell Wilson transfered from NC State cuz the coach wanted to play Glennon if Wilson didn’t give up baseball. So therefore Glennon>Wilson. Things work that way right?
Which scenario would you guys prefer:
1) Trade Nick Foles + 2015 1st + 2015 2nd + 2016 1st + 2016 2nd to move up into the top 5 to take Mariota
2) Trade Nick Foles for a 2015 2nd + a 2016 2nd, then use a 2nd round pick on Brett Hundley. Keep our 2015 1st, obviously.
“Neither” is not an answer. Apologies if my values are slightly off, but thats not the point.
I think I’d prefer scenario 2. And I’m probably one of the biggest Mariota fans here.
None of them. They are not trading Foles. They will go after building up the defense and stick with a proven commodity.
Ugh.
Also, Nick is not a “proven” commodity. He is something, and he has value, but he is not “proven.”
He has “proved” he can run Kelly’s offense. He has “proved” he can win at the NFL level.
Kelly already stated he will NOT mortgage this team for one player. It takes a team. Not one player. He already explained this.
To be perfectly fair Nick is more proven than Mariota and Hundley combined, at the pro level that is.
By that logic so is Geno Smith, Chris Ponder and Blaine Gabbert.
True. But Foles is better than thosezzzz. 😉
rare is the instance that you trade a bunch of assets for one player and end up having that work out. I’d really like to see the eagles not give up a decent young QB with a winning record and 4 high draft picks for one player.
Also, as to the “why” trade Nick Foles if Brett Hundley needs to sit for a year (probably) question, it’s simple:
If we draft Brett Hundley in the 2nd round, it is so he can become our QB of the future. Which makes Nick Foles a somewhat valuable commodity that has no future here.
Would you (a) rather let Nick Foles leave in FA after this year, or (b) get a couple of high picks for him?
This is not such a low quality team you even consider tanking for a year, which is what option 2 turns into.
Maybe…..
This is my opinion too. There’s actually no chance the Eagles will make the playoffs next season should Hundley start from day 1. In fact the Giants and Cowboys would laugh at us.
And who’s starting at QB for the Eagles in case of scenario 2?
Details.
FA / Hundley / Barkley?
2015 could be a steal rebuilding year too. Everyone wants to assume linear progress. But this team is far away.
I beg to differ. In fact the Eagles are actually pretty close. I would hate to see the Eagles take a step back by inserting an unproven QB into the starting lineup while our stars like Jason Peters, Evan Mathis and a Shady McCoy are not getting any younger.
Agreed. If other positional groups (namely the secondary and oline depth) significantly approve, foles can be a sucessful starter on this team.
Pretty close to what? losing in the first round of the playoffs?
The only team the Eagles might have had a chance of competing with in the championship games was the one that lost 45-7.
Do we know this for sure what would have happened in the playoffs, let alone the first round?
I’ve got a feeling that with a healthy Nick we might have won or two games in the post season this year.
They were one game away from winning the division and hosting the Panthers. They are close. An injury ravaged season and still they were competitive.
Sorry, but “neither” is the answer, because given those two options, I’m rolling with Foles.
That’s not how the game works!
Oh well, you guys are no fun. Just entertaining some hypotheticals.
Yeah, but it’s like asking if I prefer constipation or diarrhea. I’m choosing none of the above.
If forced to choose between these alternatives I would go with option 1.
People seem really down on Hundley. I just watched his draftbreakdown game vs. Utah, and amongst the rubble of interceptions on screen passes and bad sacks (his OL was horrible in 2014, but still some terrible sacks), was a couple of throws Nick Foles can only dream of making.
I think the “One read and run” nonsense with him is totally unfair. It’s just not true. He climbs the pocket better than Nick does.
I’m not down on him. If they want Hundley, they can get him without trading Foles. That would be a reasonable option.
Yeah fair. But we’ll lose Nick for nothing after 2015.
I just don’t think we’re contending for a Super Bowl *ever* with Nick Foles, so whether we go 7-9 w/ Hundley or 11-5 with Nick and lose in the playoffs doesn’t really matter to me.
I want to see real progress towards a sustainable champion. Which requires a real QB.
Yeah, you might lose him next year, but you’ll have had his services for the year. Foles was 8-2 in 2013, 6-2 in 2014 even with that awful patchwork line in front of him.
But why trade only Foles? If you don’t think this team can go anywhere with Foles, why should the Eagles double-down on a few aging key players or make any kind of significant or meaningful moves in FA this offseason?
If the Eagles are going to draft Hundley and install him as the starting QB next year, it is more reasonable to cut some veterans, look for trades including McCoy, and really bottom out to 3-13 or 4-12.
I’m not against that strategy.
That’s essentially tanking. And your talking about tanking with a coach in the third year of a five year deal. Tanking with a team that won ten games in back to back seasons. Trying not to yell, but that’s crazy talk.
Getting nothing for Foles and trading him unnecessarily are the same thing
That’s just not true.
Yes it is. If I trade something when I could have received it without trading, then I gave it away for nothing.
If the Eagles trade Foles for a 2nd round pick, they get a second round pick.
Who is offering the Eagles an extra second round pick for nothing?
But the argument was that you are then using that pick for a player that may be available when the Eagles were going to pick anyway. If that is the case then you traded Foles for nothing except calmed nerves.
The argument is pointless because Chip would never hand the starting QB spot to a rookie without legitimate competition.
The one read and run is largely false, and a large part of it has to do with the sheer dumpster fire of his offensive line. I mean he was getting beat to his set up points. He’s got all the arm talent you could want, has a good smooth motion, calm feet. He has experience with packaged plays. One tape I watched he beat cover 2 three or four times, it was impressive. Personally I think people overrated him coming into the season (HES BIG, STRONG ARM, CAN RUN!!!!), and there has now been an overcorrection in the opposite direction(DUMMY, CAN”T READ D, LOGAN THOMAS). I’m really intrigued to go through all his tapes in the next couple weeks.
I thought he was overhyped coming into the season. I wasn’t impressed the previous year, and I thought the ‘number 1 overall pick’ stuff was insane. I still am only interested in him as a developmental pick. He has great tools, but he’s yet to show me that he can use them at anything close to a professional level. I’m also not a huge fan of ‘upside’ picks unless it’s later in the draft.
So you’re a high floor guy in the first round?
I want someone who I am convinced will contribute in the next two seasons. Do I want both upside as well as productivity? Of course that’s my preference. Can you always get it? Of course not. Given the high bust rate of even 1st rounders, I’d rather not invest in a guy who hasn’t proven he can even be a high level college player.
Ok, so only draft guys if they have high floors, high ceilings, and have been super productive in college.
Tyler, I love your scouting and I appreciate what your doing down in Mobile. If you must mock me, go ahead, but I’m as entitled to my opinions as you are. If you have a 1st round grade on Hundley, I’ll agree to disagree. I actually liked the tape I saw on MSII and still think he could develop into a player. Did we reach for him? Even the !@#$ damn former GM admitted that.
I’m not mocking you. I’m trying to have a conversation where you come to the conclusion that
1. at some point you have to pick, and you can take you high floor guys or you can say screw it we don’t love anybody lets get the highest ceiling. and
2. “He hasn’t shown me he can use them at anything close to the professional level” —–> Nobody has. Not the SEC, not the National Championship game no game any of these guys have ever played is remotely close to the talent level on the field for a matchup of two 2-14 NFL teams.
I understand I can be a bit smarmy, but I’m genuinely not mocking you.
Absolutely true on both points, but on point two, as a scout, you watch guys play and want to see what skills they have that you are confident will translate to the pro-game. Watching a spread quarterback and then criticizing them for not throwing a lot of intermediate stick throws seems silly to me. That’s not what they were asked to do for the most part. Actually, if all they have run is the spread and you run a traditional offense, you either should take him off your board, or understand it’s going to take a year or more for him to develop the skills you want. There’s a pretty good chance he never gets it. I like Bryce Petty more than Hundley as a prospect, but a) it’s for the Eagles who run a ton of spread offense b) he still needs a ton of refinement in the passing game. He may never get there. If I’m looking at guys for a pro style offense with a lot of intermediate and downfield throws, I’d prefer Hundley’s appreciably stronger arm. It still is pure projection. Given that Kelly has placed so much emphasis in his selections of QBs on beating you with your arm and accuracy, I will be very surprised if they take Hundley. Strong arm doesn’t equal accurate. Also whether you blame the OL for his struggles or not, I still haven’t noticed much development from him reading defenses. One read and run may be an exaggeration, but there’s a reason many of us feel that way. Often it appears that is exactly what he is doing.
We’ll agree to disagree on Hundley. I’d challenge you to go back with an open mind and give him another look. Also read this.
http://www.bruinsnation.com/ucla_bruin_football/2014/12/19/7420513/ucla-footballs-brett-hundley-gets-a-scouting-report-courtesy-of-ndt
Read over it and I’ll go watch what tape I can find on draftbreakdown on him. He’s got great tools, but I knew that. I’m still concerned about the lack of development and sloppy mechanics that they mentioned. I may watch tape on Petty and change my mind about him as well. Early in the process for me, and unfortunately, I can’t join you in Mobile to watch prospects. Have fun, Tyler.
Oh I’m actually not in Mobile, I just wrote the weigh in section based on the numbers being posted online.
Glad to hear you enjoy the write-ups though.
Hundley isn’t as inaccurate as advertised. He’s really not.
I honestly feel like people are projecting guys they don’t like onto him (Kap, Cam, ?).
He’s a different player.
If you must pin me down. I prefer guys with at least a moderate floor (contributor) that also have some upside. I’m not interested in taking guys who are being drafted only for their upside but haven’t shown they can produce at all.
This is my mentality for the first and second rounds. Once you get to the third or later, I’m not opposed to swinging for the fences. If you break it down statistically, it’s an absolute crapshoot. Taking a guy who has a huge upside but hasn’t produced later on is worth the risk. Maybe good coaching brings it out of the player. If it doesn’t, oh well.
But my point is MSII’s biggest detractors didn’t forsee him having that bad of a year. He had shown he could produce, he had 14.5sacks his Senior year.
Also, serious question when did Howie say we reached on him? He said we didn’t have anymore guys with a 1st round grade, but that a trade back wasn’t going to get us enough to be worth it. If there are only 14 guys with first round grades, 18 teams are going to be “reaching”
Yep, and I was impressed by the tape I watched of him after he was drafted. I still love his athleticism but he’s got to do a better job staying on his feet.
Howie didn’t flat out say ‘we reached,’ but honestly that is how I interpreted his ‘we didn’t have first round grades’ comment. You’ll never hear any GM baldly state it. He’d be fired on the spot. I’ve heard the ‘we only have x players with 1st round grades’ before, and while there is a point there, you still take the next highest ranked player on your board. The Eagles need for a pass rusher caused them to take a guy they probably ranked a bit lower than other positions. That ideally shouldn’t happen, but almost every team does it occasionally.
As to the floor ceiling thing, I consider Matthews a higher floor maybe not as high a ceiling guy as many Eagles fans think. He put up great numbers, especially for a rookie. I didn’t see anything special after the catch. He’s not going to juke anyone out of his socks. He’s stopwatch fast, but not a blazer. He didn’t run past many people. Best catches this season was on crossing routes. I didn’t see ODB with his insane hands or even see him doing a great job of shielding defenders with his big body. I see a guy who was a solid contributor and looks to be one for years, but I don’t see superstar. I don’t hear anyone complaining about Matthews either.
High floor guys tend to end up being Mike Pattersons and Bunkelys. Guys who the fan base ends up talking shit on because they were only good starters, and OMG here’s the one outlier who was picked later and became an all-pro.
I liked and still like both guys. Bunkley had better tools and never made as much out of them as he should have. Patterson made the most out of his tools and was a very solid guy. I don’t complain about those types and never will. I hate guys that waste their talent or worse, just have no clue how to play football despite being phenomenal athletes. For every guy you gamble on who turns into an all-pro, most fans ignore the 200 guys who flame out in three years.
In retrospect I only poo all over the Bunkley pick because we all wanted Ngata instead, were frustrated to see the Ravens steal him a few spots in front of us (i.e. Ed Reed being stolen by Baltimore, leaving us with Lito instead), and then found out that Reid wanted Heckert to trade up for for Bunkley anyway.
I actually always liked Patterson and didn’t have a guy I liked better in that draft at that point.
I tried to make a GIF out of the throw he makes at 1:45 in this draft breakdown video. It’s unreal.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/brett-hundley-vs-utah-2014/
He made a handful of truly ridiculous throws in this game.
That’s one of the Cover 2 beater’s I’m referencing. Crazy level of ability needed to pull that off. Stares down the slot WR, and hitches to sell a quick out or comeback, that does enough to hold the safety, and then has the arm and accuracy to put it over the corner and under the safety.
But…but…but… we know that a horrible OL is no excuse for not trusting the pocket! We’ve been told that all year! That’s how we know Foles is awful!
You couldn’t pay me to make Hundley the starter out of the gate. He’s probably at least two seasons away and that’s if everything goes right for him. More than likely, he busts and is out of football in 3 years.
“Neither” is an answer for me, because I think those would be dumb, shortsighted trades that would set the franchise back significantly.
Thanks Tommy for these reports…they are great for us fans
I embrace the sarcasm on trading up. Thanks for that, it’s getting ridiculous.
Realistically, the best place for us to trade up would be #8 with Atlanta. It would cost This year’s one and two plus next year’s one. That seems ridiculous as well, so I agree with your conclusion.
It’s getting so worn out to the point that it only seems that people wanna see it happen so they can claim they “knew it” or “called it.” The speculation is mind bending with all the trade scenarios lol, I dunno how to even respond to some of it especially those wanting to trade into the top 3. We all have zero clue what this team wants and it seems when Kelly talks Mariota up, how smart he is etc, he’s just trying to help one of his best hand picked players get drafted higher, up his stock. He might want him on the team but realizes he’ll go too high so might as well just try and give him a boost. I mean even I’d like to see it. Truthfully I would even take Kaepernick in a trade for our system just to see what it could be. Seeing Russell Wilson make green bay look silly with the zone read is enticing it really is. Even seeing Terrelle Pryor do it with the raiders and run the whole length of the field at gazelle speed was enticing, I just wonder if Mariota can truly make all the accurate long throws when he has no choice but to. But I can speculate that with every prospect. Long story short I’d like to have Mariota but at this point it’s not even realistic so I don’t care much about even thinking of it. I want defensive talent and we need it if we truly wanna compete. I’d stick with Foles for another year and hope an athletic qb can become available like Kaepernick. No way Mariota falls too far, the jets hired Chan Gailey as OC who uses the spread offense and can probably get a lot out of Mariota if they get him, when they hired Gailey I immediately thought of Mariota. Can probably implement lots of what we do just to have him comfortable right away. There’s definitely places for him to go early on IMO.
And yeah we can’t lose those picks, we NEED it. We can’t pull a Washington. They’re hiring actual football people nowadays which kinda gives me a pause. It’s just not worth it. Unless we do really really good in free agency and fill multiple holes including oline spots with guys like Lupati or someone else, no way I’d think of it. I am happy with the recent coaching changes and would love to see some better play out of our DBs because of it, so if that happens while we also upgraded through FA maybe I’d say trade up but not too far. Still, I just don’t see it happening.
We spend so much time discussing top prospects I thought I would change it up by introducing a sleeper.
I stumbled across this name months ago, but he plays for North Texas. Honestly who watches North Texas games. Derek Akunne plays OLB for them and was 1st team CUSA. Every now and then I check to see if there is any game tape or highlights posted of players I dont normally get a chance to see. There is one game tape and a recently added highlight video.
To me he reminds me of a poor mans Bobby Wagner. I love the way he closes, he is a good tackler, and creates turnovers. He is also apparently a special team demon. This guy is not on anyone’s radar. He’s UDFA material on CBS and there are no draft articles about him.
Check at this video. May be a good late round steal.
http://youtu.be/REUDtzzw34s
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=80
Oh, I hadn’t even noticed that North Texas left the Sun Belt conference.
That’s a pretty nice highlight reel for Bryan Bennett, who I have never heard of before. There was one pass I liked to #14 at roughly 6:15 in the video, he dived for the catch and kept rolling.
http://www.benstonium.com/2015/01/video-new-england-patriots-cialis-commercial/
This exactly wasn’t a bad parody and gave me a good laugh.
Trade Foles, Mccoy, Cox, Embiid, 3 first rounders and a Philly Pretzel Factory franchise for Mariota.
Noooooo! Not the Philly Pretzel factory!
Embiid is too valuable to my Twitter timeline to trade for anything
Seems like alot of people catching feelings about these rumors or the possiblity of Chip trading up or trading the farm for Mariota.. Now we all have a fair idea how much it would take to trade up n the logical thinking would be not to do it.. But Chip only has 3 more years in his 5 year contract to get this team a SB.. Why should he have to think about what happens after his 5th year n beyond when he needs to win the day n win sooner rather than later?
Chip has said the draft is a crap shoot i dont think he values players the same as normal scouts n coaches do.. Matthews in the 1st n Hart in the 3rd know what im saying.. Say Eagles had the choice to move up to get Mariota or say Clowney for last years draft n it took the 1st, 4th, both 5th picks in this years 1st round pick.. Would you guys do it? 1st pick turned out to be Marcus Smith, 4 Watkins, 5s Hart n Reynolds.. They were either inactive or didnt contribute much
My aggressive nature is saying if you believe thats the player you want n need to get this team to the next level then get him.. But my mind is thinking logically n sees how it could blow up this team in the long run if it doesnt pan out.. But thinking logically, safe or doing what is the norm hasnt won this team a SB
Trading into the top 5 or even top 10 is too rich for me.. Fall to the teens i wont be surprised if Chip makes a move.. Either way Chip has full control now.. Its either gonna be a good thing or bad we can only wait.. So im gonna stop thinking logically with this guy n wait til its actually FA n Draft day.. In Chip We Trust right;)
Except in last years draft it took 2 first round picks to go from pick 9 to pick 4. So to go from Pick 22 to pick 1 to get Clowney would have taken: a whole hell of alot more than just the MSII, Watkins, Hart and Reynolds pick plus a future 1st rounder. Your valuation doesn’t get you anywhere near pick 1 (also that 4th and 5th round pick came from moving down from 22, so you are proposing pick 22, and a 5th). Plus Clowney already has had microfracture, I think this demonstrates the risk of trading the farm for a single player. Yes, the guys we picked didn’t contribute much in year 1 but Clowney may never be the same again.
Youre missing the point in what im saying.. We dont know how picks will pan out hence why i kinda get what Chip was saying when he said its a crap shoot.. I used those players as examples for why its a crap shoot.. They might turn out to be good players or not but just used them in this instance.. If you wanna add more picks go ahead to get the real value to match up go ahead.. But thats not the point im saying.. It doesnt even have to be for Clowney, Mariota.. Like i said thinking logically might not be the way for Chip.. Heck i wouldnt be surprised if someone traded Eagles 3 3rd rounders for Eagles 1st.. Dunno if that matches up on the trade chart value but Chip might see it as more opportunity to get players.. Sorta like how his O runs more opportunity to score
I don’t think Chip has any grand ideas about maximizing value of draft picks. He’s a coach first and foremost. He just wants to get as many good players as he can.
Interesting point. Do you think the draft room will be significantly different now with Chip running the show? Roseman likes wheeling and dealing and making trades for more picks. I don’t know if Chip cares that much about it, so should we expect less trading or less worry about trading up to get a coveted player?
I think all the stuff is going to come down to who becomes Chip’s lieutenant.
and in the draft before it took only a 3rd to move from 12th to 3rd.
When looking at other draft trades and the draft chart (who GMs still seems to follow pretty well), its clear that both Redskins and Bills grossly overpaid.
The Falcons moved from 27th to 7th with only 1st, 1 2nd and 2 4ths.
Lets not use the outlier trades like the Bills to determine the market.
You’re saying we could go from 22 to 1 with 22, a 4th, 2 5ths and a future 1?
We also got a 3rd for going from 22 to 26 last year.
The draft before was somewhat of an outlier, because there were no sexy QB picks, and everyone agreed that the strength of the draft was its depth, not at the top; 3 OT and a coverage OLB went in the top 5 that year. I’m no expert, but everything I’m reading about the 2015 draft makes it sound very different from the 2013 draft.
As soon as you say “I’m going to stop thinking logically” you’re in trouble.
haha well guess il be more open minded about it
Bennett had a 49% completion percentage in 2014. Not exactly “terrific.”
I don’t know what the situation is with that, but he’s making some long throws and putting them where they belong on the YouTubes I’m watching. I’m not going to pretend to be any kind of expert on it, but I like what I saw.
It’s probably that low because of all the injured O-Linemen, an ineffective run game, an injury after that big hit during the Redskins game…
I still think 49% is extremely low for a college QB projecting to NFL. I cant think of a single QB that had a completion percentage under 50% that had any type of success in the NFL. Correct me if im wrong. Under 50% suggests more then just poor team surrounding him, it suggests poor accuracy.
60% is considered the Mendoza line.
Doesn’t that completely depend on the offense? 60% in a down the field offense is awesome. In a dink and dunk, it’s horrible.
The year before he was 61%, so not only was it not good this year but a drop off from last year.
Injuries.
Are you saying he was injured? I dont know that much about him so maybe he was injured. Still 49% is just historically horrible. Like really really bad to the point that maybe it had alot to do with his surroundings, but its so bad that alot of that is also on his shoulders. We are trying to project him as an NFL QB. If he was a horribly ineffecient passer in college what makes you think he would be efficient in the NFL. Thats like me saying i suckat Madden on rookie difficulty, so lets turn it on All Madden and see if i do better. You can say he will have a better surrounding cast in the NFL which may help him, but guess what? His opposition will be better then anything he has ever faced. To me if you are completing less then half your throws no matter what is going on around you, you need to look at yourself first, esspecially when your the QB aka the face/leader of your team.
Injuries. See 24/7.
I don’t think trading Nick Foles is that crazy. As someone already mentioned below, he’s a free agent after next season so you get nothing for him if Kelly wants to go in another direction. And if Kelly already knows Foles is not the future then why not get something for him?
Kelly got rid of Jackson when he only had Cooper. I do realize QB is the most important position, but Foles to Barkley is probably much less of a downgrade than Jackson to Cooper.
Every player has a price. How much is 1 year of Nick Foles worth? I’d say if the Eagles could get an early second round pick for Foles they would be crazy not to take it (assuming Chip Kelly does not want Foles as his QB past next season).
Think its a given Chip will get a QB either through FA, Draft or trade.. Foles has 1 year left.. Still alot of question marks to if he is the future or not.. If Foles carves up then extend him n Eagles are set.. But if he doesnt or gets injured again Eagles n Chip are screwed with no answer for the position next season
Michael Vick should be available.
Yeah that sounds crazy, but if you are looking for a guy for one year while you groom a young QB, then why not? Does Nick Foles really give you that much more than Vick? Is there really that much less of chance of injury with Foles?
Hell, sign Vick and Sanchez and let them fight it out in training camp with Barkley.
Yes Foles will give you that much more then Vick.
Objectively speaking, Vick beat out Foles in a QB competition decided by Chip Kelly less than two years ago. There is not a huge gap in their talent levels, at least according to Chip Kelly.
Subjectively and objectively speaking, Foles has had an additional 2 years to improve over Vick in Kelly’s offense.
Vick is now 2 years older and his best abilities arent as good as they were 2 years ago. Yes Vick beat him out in TC, but when it was real and Vick got hurt Foles went in and Kelly decided to not put Vick back because whenit really mattered he realized Foles was better. Even Foles numbers this past year are better then Vicks when Vick was the incumbent starter. Vick pretty much conceded he now wants to be a backup, and even admitted when he was pressed into action in NY that he didnt mentally prepare. Not to mention he will most definetly get hurt 3 games into season and his backup will be in. Not saying Foles injury history is any good.
Vick also proved less effective than Foles on the field that very same year. He also proved he can’t stay healthy and putting him in an offense where he’s asked to run even occasionally is begging for him to get hurt. If he can’t run, he can’t play at all. He’s not Donovan who broke his ankle and proceeded to pass for 400yards. I really don’t understand why some fans still love the guy.
Foles to Barkley is a HUGE downgrade. Barkley would lessen the production of every skill player on offense. You put Barkley as your starter and the only positive is that you will probably get a top ten draft pick. There is a reason as to why Sanchez was in front of him on the depth chart. Cooper at least showed something good in 2013. So what you are saying is that we should trade Foles for a second, insert Barkley, compmetely plummet this year in hopes that we draft a QB in next years draft class that maybe at some point in the future may be good? Thats ludacris.
No I think they need to take a quarterback this year.
I explicitly stated that it would only make sense to trade Foles if Kelly doesn’t want him at QB.
So, if Kelly does not want him do you think the Eagles are going to pay him enough to keep him as a free agent after next season when they have to compete with every other team looking for a QB to sign him?
You portray this as scenario where the Eagles are trading away the future, when one of the assumptions of my argument is that Nick Foles is not the future.
If you trade away Foles and get some veteran journeyman to be the QB this year, while hoping a mid round pick develops?
You’re tanking.
Sort of… it’s not really tanking in the sense where you are being purposely bad to get better draft picks.
The end result is the same though. You would be sabotaging next season in the hopes that whatever you get for Foles will be worth more than nothing in 2016 and beyond. (since nothing is what you get for Foles if he leaves as a FA)
And, if you do get a second round pick this year, maybe that player comes in and is more Jordan Matthews than Marcus Smith and contributes immediately.
False, you get a comp pick. Plus a year of production, with a chance that he turns out to be the guy.
Vinny Curry probably is going to be a free agent and not come back lets trade him.
And Mathis will eventually retire, lets trade him too, don’t want to get nothing when that happens.
Shady will eventually not be worth his contract, lets get like a 4th for him now and cut our losses.
Marcus Smith didn’t do good in year 1, lets get a conditional 7th cuz thats better than nothing.
If this was year one of a new coach, fine, clear house, maximize turning non scheme fits and underperforming players into future assets. But its year 3, he can’t dump the best QB we have sign a shit QB, draft a guy who maybe is a starter in two or three years (by which point he’s been fired), just because we may not get anything if Nick walks. If you don’t think Nick is the guy, what’s it really matter?
Just stop, the rationalism is TOO MUCH FOR ME TO COMPREHEND!!!!!!! *mind explodes*
You are exaggerating, but since you brought it up:
Curry: sure, trade him if you can get something decent for him, but you probably can’t.
Mathis: signed through 2017. bad example.
Shady: The Eagles are far under the salary cap. They have no reason at all to release or trade a productive player because of money.
Smith: might still turn out to be good. A 7th round pick has almost no value.
I started off by saying every player has a price.
Do you disagree with that? Are you saying you would not trade Nick Foles for 3 first round picks? Of course not.
So, to paraphrase a misattributed Churchill quote: “we’ve already agreed what Foles is, now we are just haggling over the price.”
Obviously you think my price of an early second rounder is not enough for Nick Foles. What is your price for Nick Foles?
I wouldn’t part with him for less than a 1st and a conditional 2nd or 3rd. But his market value isn’t nearly that. I kinda doubt his market value is effectively a 2nd.
And my point is that getting picks is great, but at some point, you can’t stick a future 4th round pick at Free Safety, you need a physical body to do it. You can’t completely strip a team for parts. Kelly trades Foles and replaces him with a Bryce Petty or Brandon Bridge, and Ryan Fitzpatrick? Even the biggest Foles haters will march on NovaCare with pitchforks and torches.
You may be right about his market value and not being able to get a 2nd round pick for him, but I think he may be able to fetch that. While some might say most of his success is due to the Kelly offense, others might think that he’s not really a prototypical Chip Kelly QB and he might be a better fit in a more typical NFL offense.
But I have do have to point out that it does seem a bit illogical for people to say it would be “crazy” to trade Nick Foles on one hand, but on the other hand not one of the many NFL teams that need a QB would really be willing to give up much value to get him.
When a team makes a trade for a guy like Nick Foles, it usually comes with a contract extension. They are getting commitment from that guy for multiple years. So, apparently Eagles fans value one year of Nick Foles much more than any QB desperate NFL team values him for multiple years?
In other words, we’d be out of our minds to cut ties with this QB that everyone else thinks is close to worthless?
Nick has the chance to be the answer for us. The chance of him being a Flacco or Rothlesberger type QB is vastly superior to anything else we can do at the QB position. The importance of QB states that if you don’t have one, you’re screwed. So maybe he sucks this year, but then we don’t care if he leaves. Or maybe he’s awesome, and everything is wonderful. But if you get a backup FA QB he’s 0% the answer. And any mid round QB you get is going to take longer to develop than Chip has left if he bottoms out for a year or two.
In other words Nicks value to us far exceeds his value to other teams at this time.
I’d agree with you in almost all situations. I think the difference in this situation is Chip Kelly.
“Let’s give him another year and see how he does” is logical. But we don’t make the decision, so us watching him for another year means nothing. It’s Chip Kelly’s decision. And I think we are making the mistake of shortchanging Chip Kelly if we think he hasn’t already made that decision. Kelly has seen him for 2 years now. I’m pretty sure he already knows if Foles is his long term guy or not.
But he’s only made like 18 starts under Chip. I think Chip is a bit more reasonable to expect growth moving forward, than to make a concrete declamation.
Additionally there’s nothing out there short of Mariota (which isn’t happening) that will perform better at QB this year. You also can’t trade him before the draft, because it leaves you with a massive hole, and every team knows you’re going to be picking a QB, probably pretty early. Which is going to raise the price you pay for a lottery ticket at QB.
Unless of course he’s part of the deal to trade up for Mariota. “We had Foles rated higher than Mariota plus we got all these picks” would sound pretty good in a press conference.
I will say this – I’ll be shocked if the Eagles let Nick walk and they get a comp pick for him of any real value. If he’s bad enough to let walk, I think they spend way more on FAs that offseason than what he’ll sign elsewhere for.
Comp picks are also about quantity, he doesn’t have to sign for much money. Plus if you’re in a situation where you now have no QB, why are you spending money on FA’s anyways?
Because there will be a lot of holes on this team in the next few years as Peters, Mathis, Ryans, Celek, Herremans, Shady, Cole/Graham leave the team, plus you still need to build depth at other positions (i.e., Barwin’s in his prime, but I think they would be smart to start looking to acquire his eventual replacement in the next two years). Not all of those holes will be able to be filled with draft picks. They’ve always been aggressive about addressing ‘holes’ with a FA so they can at least attempt BPA in draft, and I don’t think that changes. And I do believe that they will spend big on young, talented FAs at premier positions when they pop up (which is admittedly rare). I’m no expert on comps, but I have a hard time seeing a valuable comp pick being awarded if Nick is bad enough to let walk next year. What do you see?
Yes the team is at a crossroads.
I mean it’s not going to be a great comp pick, but if he signs for 3-5 million it’s going to net us a 5th or 6th.
They’ve been aggressive filling holes the last two years due to the scheme change. I don’t think you’re going to see them do much in free agency this year. They may go after one or two DBs, but they aren’t going to go hog wild. They may make a few depth and competition signings but nothing crazy.
Also everybody wants to complain about how our shortcomings organizatationally and how we should be more like the consistently good teams. Green Bay literally doesn’t sign free agents, and the Ravens don’t unless they are marked “clearance”. You absolutely can build a team solely through the draft.
There is just to much hoping in this siuation you describe. You dont just cross your fingers and hope something works in the NFL and life in general.
Tanking while praying for the future.
Thats okay….stealth rebuild.
Even if you trade Nick for a 2nd and 4th this year (is that closer to value?), you’d have 10 picks this year.
Draft Hundley in the 1st to make sure you get your guy, then fill out the rest of the roster.
Trade Shady for a 2016 pick. Draft OL / CB / S / ILB / WR. Develop.
The key veterans will still be fine in 2016. Peters, Barwin, Kelce, Maclin, Jenkins, Thornton. Cox and Kendricks will be in their prime.
I don’t think this is crazy.
Thats assuming Hundley becomes better then Foles and you actually get a pick worth some value in Shady. You arent going to get better then maybe a 3rd for Shady, you have to remember what position he plays. Stuff like this doesnt happen in the NFL because stuff like this doesnt work. Yu are suggesting that we trade our Pro Bowl RB, and the best QB we have on this team who maybe just had a down year considering the year before he had one of the best seasons in history? So after 8 games of average play with no running game, destroyed Oline, Cooper sucking, Mathews getting feet wet, you are ready to get rid of him? Considering what he did year prior. I dont expect 2013 to be repeated, but based on everything i think its nuts to send him packing, and your RB who was 3rd in yards rushing this season and first year prior packing also. For lets admit, players that you dont really know if they will pan out or not. I dont know, just doesnt seem rational to me.
So you want to downgrade from a playoff contender into a 4-12 team that MAY get back to being a playoff contender in a few years if the project QB you drafted develops as hoped? Sorry, that IS crazy.
My goal is to win a Super Bowl. I don’t think you can win on with Nick Foles unless the Defense makes the leap to a Seattle-level unit. Which I don’t think is possible. So yeah, I’m okay with taking one step back.
This team isn’t as good as some want to believe, and its getting older at some key positions. We shouldn’t delude ourselves.
The Giants won two Super Bows with Eli. The Ravens won with Flacco. You don’t have to go back very far to find examples of teams winning with QBs who are objectively no better than Foles. And Foles is young and could theoretically still improve.
This ain’t the NBA. If the team went significantly backward next year Kelly would have to worry about being fired, not about where to hold the 2019 Super Bowl parade.
Those teams had a much better defense than we did. Although Flacco played out of his mind in the playoffs. We’re not going to be a team where D wins us.
Could be.
The point is, you can win a Super Bowl with a guy who’s a 7 out of 10 on the QB scale fairly easily if you have a strong team around him. Assuming that Foles is that, I think it’s easier to build a strong team around him than jettison him and try to replace him with a 9/10 or 10/10 QB. Firstly, those guys are really, really hard to find. Secondly, to even have the chance to gamble on a guy like Mariota being one you’d have to sacrifice an enormous amount of resources. If you gamble incorrectly, the decision is a franchise-altering debacle that sets you back half a decade (see RGIII). If you gamble correctly, you have a franchise QB but no resources to build a team around him, which is also not a situation in which you are a serious contender either (see Luck with the Colts, though in that case the lack of resources is more due to dumb, shortsighted trades for complementary players).
Best strategy IMO is to continue to roll with Foles and hedge by taking gambles on mid-round prospects who could develop into legitimate NFL QBs, like they did with Barkley. Betting the farm on super high risk, medium reward moves is a quick way to lose your job.
city would go crazy, can’t believe we’re even talking about this. Chip says win now.
I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Peters is a shell of his former self by 2016. If he suffers a serious injury in 2015, that’s probably a career for him. Guys his age just don’t recover their freak athleticism after injury, if they can even maintain it in the first place.
I agree with this, too. But *if* Kelly has the opinion that Foles is not his guy, and one of the projects meets all his criteria, then I can see it happen, and can understand the reasoning. Those “ifs” are the important piece, though. Personally, I don’t agree that either condition is true.
Despite all the holes on the team, I have no problem with taking a Petty, Grayson, or possibly Bennett (who I have not seen at all, but Kelly probably knows a lot about) as a mid round project and letting them sit for a year behind Nick or some veteran journeyman, if that’s what Kelly determines is needed to realize his vision.
I agree with the rational, but only if Kelly’s signing for another five years or so. Any of those mid-round guys are probably two or more years away from being able to contribute. If Kelly’s convinced Foles isn’t the guy (I don’t agree with this but it’s conjecture) it’s a reasonable plan only if Kelly’s certain to stay.
Personally, I tend to agree with D3FB. You trade away Foles and your basically tanking. He’s the only QB we’ve had who’s proven he can consistently win under Kelly. Foles’ detractors have legitimate criticisms, but he’s produced more than they want to admit.
I guess that’s a third condition, then: Kelly and Lurie agree that he’s essentially got his first extension already. So we agree there, too.
I also agree with your 2nd paragraph entirely.
Bennet is a late day 3 or UDFA guy. If Bennet’s playing, you go full on college running QB and hope to catch magic in a bottle with some gimmicky crap ala Tebow.
So noted. I tend to think that’s true of anyone they draft this year if they expect them to start this year, with the possible exception of Winston, who I don’t think fits well with Kelly, but has the tools and experience to possibly be an adequate NFL passer as a rookie.
I think Mariota can play day 1. I think Hundley and Petty can probably both play after the bye. Every year everyone always says “oh no these guys can’t play day 1” and by week 4 everyone is screaming “play that man, if he can’t play now he’s awful!”. I mean the Jags even intentionally set out to give Bortles the whole year.
I mean they are still rookies, you’re not going to give them Peyton Manning’s playbook and list of audibles. They’re not going to win you games singlehandedly, but to say they can’t play and will be completely overwhelmed is a bit much. They’ll struggle, and take their lumps but you can’t Aaron Rodgers QBs unless you have Brett Favre in front of them.
I just think that any of those three really need more reps in the pocket to get better at it without the pressures of winning games and having 330 pounders rocking them from the blindside, otherwise, I don’t think any of them are likely to develop that aspect enough to ever reach their potential. They’ll start trusting in what has always served them well in the past – their athleticism – and start to look to play hero ball, at best, or just get their confidence destroyed in the pocket. I know I’m in the minority, but I think this is why so many very talented college QBs bust in the NFL – they need more reps in the pocket without the confidence shattering hits that result from getting those reps as a starter in the NFL. Even with Mariotta, I don’t see him with the reps in the pocket making the reads that the Eagles’ offense is asking the QB to read.
And this is doubly true about a team, like the Eagles, which is coming off of two straight winning seasons. The pressure to win next year will be there, no matter what. Whatever rook starts for the Eagles next year will be under immense pressure to win, just like you note above.
Bortles’ mechanics broke down, as well as his confidence. He actually *had* to sit for that year. Then again, he should have never been a high first round pick, who’d presumably have to start right away.
Yeah, watched a little tape of Bennett and it was really ugly. Positives – above average athlete, live arm Negatives – scattershot, makes really poor decisions under duress, took a lot of punishment in the single game I watched which would lead to injuries at the nfl level. CrackSammich called him GJ Kinne’s replacement as practice squad fodder and that’s a pretty realistic view.
I was under the impression you meant Barkley would be the starter in place of Foles thos year. Foles is one year away from having one of the best QB seasons of all time. This past year wasnt nearly close to that, but he still had us winning. We had no run game and Oline was mangled. Cooper showed his true colors and Mathews was learning the ropes of the NFL. I think you need to.give him another year to decide on what to do. Good QBs are very hard to come by and develop. There is no garuntee that second round pick you speak of will even turn into anything good.
You are assuming Chip Kelly thinks he might need another year of seeing Nick Foles to make a decision on the future.
That may be the case… but what if Chip Kelly has already made up his mind?
Maybe he thinks he isnt the future, however he is by far the best we have. So it goes back to the draft. Your not even 100% sure if in the following years draft you will have a good enough pick to select a good QB, yet alone if he will be good in NFL. So what if you get a mid round QB to develope? That means you are just going to waste years praying he does develope as all the good talent we have on curent roster gets older. My point is that you dont just trade the best you got at a position, esspecially at QB when you have no one on your roster to replace him in the foreseeable future. Its not even a garuntee you will get anyone better then him anytime soon.
You’re thinking like a fan that has the long term health of the franchise in mind, not like a coach on a 5 year deal with full player personnel control that can have just about any coaching job he wants once that contract is up.
That makes even less sense if you think about it in the short term. So your going to trade your best QB away, hope you get a FA QB that is worae then Foles, or draft a rookie that HOPEFULLY developes into a good QB and takes you to the SB in the next 3 years. Yes Russell Wilson did it with an outstanding D and running game. We are far from that type of D, and Wilson isnt the norm.
How many times does Chip have to say “I don’t build my roster around my offense, I build my offense around my roster” before people believe it? If Foles is a good NFL QB (which at times he has appeared to be), dumping him for an unproven commodity because he doesn’t run the read option optimally is a quick route to getting fired for Kelly.
That may be true, but are you denying that the offense would be better with a mobile QB going all RW over the defense? I think that’s just a fact of life. I think with Foles you need more of a pro scheme, but basically what kelly does is shot gun / spread.
deleted
No, this is Ludacris, fine sir.
what?
Refresh for picture?
Lmfao…good one
I’m generally in the Foles defender camp, but this:
“I’d say if the Eagles could get an early second round pick for Foles they would be crazy not to take it (assuming Chip Kelly does not want Foles as his QB past next season).”
Is undeniably true. If Chip doesn’t see Foles as the future, getting a second for him is a no-brainer. My general feeling is that Chip likes Foles more than the “Chip needs a mobile QB!!1!!1” crowd does, but nobody outside of that FO probably knows the real situation.
Tommy, I’d be curious to know how much of a topic of conversation Deflategate (or Ballghazi) is down there.
Saw somebody on twitter mention that most coaches thought that the case was overblown, most likely because everybody tampers with the balls to fit the QBs demand.
We dont have a realistic option to replace Nick Foles. Hell I don’t think any qb in this draft ends up being better than him.
why is that?
Not a fan of this years qb prospects.
Remember when getting rid of DeSean Jackson was a dumb rumor? How stupid was that? Like the Eagles would really consider cutting Jackson after his best season ever! Stupid Kempski making shit up so he has something to write about.
Gotta admit, at first, I was fully convinced it was a dumb rumor and nothing more than clickbaiting from the local media running away with a speculation piece by Kempski. Still think cutting the best deep threat in the league for nothing was a poor decision despite the culture fit with Jackson and Kelly. I figured that there had to be some Aaron Hernandez level issues or some seriously disruptive behavior to justify the move in the immediate aftermath. But, nothing substantial has ever come out (unless you count that pathetic hit job by ESP as substantial). Turns out Chip made the Eagles offense less talented and much less dangerous on the field in order to build his desired culture. If he runs back to college in the next few years I don’t think I’d ever forgive him. Ultimately though from what I’ve seen I wouldn’t count out any scenario when it comes to Chip building the team to the very specific vision he desires. If Mariota drops Chip won’t hesitate to move up and get him if he truly believes in the kid.
“Culture” was a media inference, supported by some player quotes, but we never heard that word referencing Jackson, spoken by Kelly. (cue ABBA) Money, money, money. Kelly’s explanation was “We’re moving in a different direction” and that direction is not tying up usable dollars overpaying for a player who is far from the best at his position. If Kelly is able to build a championship team. it will in part be because of rational contracting of players. In line with this interpretation, moving up for a player needing development means paying more to have him ride the bench. Kelly did not mind grabbing Barkley in the 4th round, but given what history suggests, QB’s in the first round are much riskier than any other position.
Fanspeak has a cap management/free agency simulator now.
http://fanspeak.com/mtc/
Tommy how has Vince Mayle looked? He’s still raw but he flashes enough to make you think that he could be great.
There’s talk of Jeff Garcia becoming a QB coach. I don’t know how I feel about that. Not that I don’t think he can do a good job, it’s just that he’s only been a QB coach for a year. Foles will be on his 4th QB coach in 4 years. Would someone more established be better? The one thing about Garcia tho is that he’d probably stay around for awhile.
The one thing about Garcia tho is that he’d probably stay around for awhile
This is probably his best-selling argument.
Probably. I don’t hate the idea. I thought generally he had a good feel for the game, now whether he can turn that into a coaching skill remains to be seen. He’s passionate about it, so that in itself for me is a selling point too.
He could teach Nick how to avoid throwing picks. 🙂
Ahhhhhh,the daily dose of “I know there is no chance in hell Marriotta becomes an eagle, but we are going to talk about it all day anyway” lol awesome.
…
If you think Nick Wont be our QB next year, you are either A) just dumb, B) confused, C) irrationally bias, D) not a very good acumen of the situation.
.
MKSP can diareah from the mouth with his silly lil fanboy scenario, and Angelo Cataldi level of football acumen, but the level of stupidity is making me miss the days of the Vick vs. FOles daily debate….smh
…
I’ll get back to you when the conversation is better than some crap you hear from the sports radio donkeys every day
“Now, who can argue with that? I think we’re all indebted to GEAGLE for stating what needed to be said. I’m particularly glad that these lovely children are here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, but it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.”
I AM NOT A VERY GOOD ACUMEN OF THE SITUATION. WOULD YOU CARE TO ACCUMENATE MY INABILITY TO ACUMEN?
I will never route for the Eagles to lose and I’m glad they ended the season with a win, but boy this discussion would be a lot more interesting if we were picking 16th rather than 20.
Yeah — in hindsight maybe short sighted. Maybe Kelly has contract escalators at 10 wins. Then howie was pissed b/c he got ten wins ruining draft position.
Bring Garcia in.. hes got passion, loves the city.. he wont get plucked for OC job in 2016… seems like a nice fit..
From what I’m reading, Bennett seems like GJ Kinne’s replacement on the practice squad.