Chip and the Truth
Posted: March 26th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 335 Comments »I finally got to see the entire Chip Kelly breakfast talk. For those brave souls with an hour to kill, PE.com has the whole thing posted. I enjoyed it, but I’m one of those wackos that loves listening to football coaches speak.
If you try to compare some of what Chip says to his actions, to what Jeff Lurie said and to other bits of info, you will find some inconsistencies. Sheil Kapadia noted a couple of these in an excellent piece he wrote. Here’s one of them.
6. Kelly and Lurie offered two different stories when discussing the McCoy trade. Lurie said Kelly preferred a different style of runner, a one-cut back who didn’t dance. Kelly said it was purely a financial move to free up cap space.
We’ve been over this before, but believe the owner here. I can understand why Kelly doesn’t want to sound like he’s criticizing McCoy, but the Inquirer reported that the Eagles didn’t approach the running back about redoing his deal.
And in the end, the deal they gave DeMarco Murray is essentially the same over the next three years as the one McCoy was on. The only difference is Murray’s getting $18 million guaranteed, and McCoy was not. In other words, they had more flexibility with the McCoy contract.
Yes, it’s true that McCoy had a bigger cap hit in 2015, but that could have easily been restructured by guaranteeing some of his salary.
Bottom line: Kelly wanted a different style runner, and he wanted Kiko Alonso. That’s why the deal was made, not because of McCoy’s contract.
Kelly had a love-hate relationship with LeSean McCoy for 2 years. Like all of us, Kelly loves the dynamic runs. McCoy makes guys miss better than any RB in a long time. The problem is that McCoy struggled to embrace the 4-yard run. He was always looking to bounce a play outside or to cutback and find wide open space. That led to too many negative runs. (See this great ChipWagon post for some examples of poor decisions)
McCoy also made strange decisions down the field at times. Most notably, he made a cut in the Snow Bowl that turned a 70-yard TD run into a play where Ndamukong Suh caught him from behind and the play only went for 20 yards. That really bugged Kelly. The play worked. The blockers did their part. The offense had a long TD. Instead, a poor read and poor cut turned it into simply a nice gain.
As great as the highlight runs are, there is something about a physical, downhill runner. They are going to have fewer negative plays. They are going to wear down defenders. Good look at a list of Super Bowl winners. I don’t think you’ll see many in recent years where the leading runner’s best quality was elusiveness. I’m not saying you need Earl Campbell, but you want RBs that get behind their pads and attack up the field.
Instead of talking about football philosophy, Kelly chose to focus on money. He mixed in some comments about liking one-cut, downhill runners, but he didn’t focus on that.
It doesn’t benefit Kelly to talk about what he really wants in RBs. He’d rather have the other 31 teams think this is all about money that to truly know his thinking. If those teams study things, they’ll figure out the truth. But why make it easy on them?
A good coach will pick and choose when to be honest. Fans and the media want honesty. It eliminates guessing and tells them exactly what is going on. Coaches are trying to protect their ideas, strategies and desires. Can you imagine Seattle telling the world they were targeting Russell Wilson in the 3rd round going into the 2012 draft? Andy Reid really wanted him and would have known to move up.
Heck, sometimes teams go out of their way to deceive others. Under Tom Heckert and Howie Roseman, the Eagles would bring in a few draft prospects to the NovaCare that they actually didn’t have on their draft board. They wanted to keep the rest of the league guessing. Do the Eagles like that guy or not?
Kelly’s primary goal when lying is to protect the team, not to deceive us or fool the media. Andy Reid did much of the same. Reid often lied to protect his players. That drove fans nuts, but led to guys being incredibly loyal to him. As much as fans wanted Reid to rip Todd Pinkston, it served no purpose.
Study actions, not words, and you’ll have a better idea of what a person really thinks.
When Chris Polk took over on goal line plays last year, that was a big hint that McCoy might not be in the long term plans. Does anyone remember Ricky Watters, Duce Staley or Brian Westbrook leaving the field inside the 10-yard line in the prime of their careers?
There is no real benefit to spilling the beans and sharing all your thoughts and ideas in the NFL. That’s one place where honesty most certainly isn’t the best policy. Lie, lie and lie some more.
Those of us who want to know the truth will follow the bread crumbs and try to figure out what’s really going on.
* * * * *
I had an interesting thought tonight when thinking about RBs.
This will be Kelly’s third year. Look at the RBs he’s had here.
LeSean McCoy
Bryce Brown
Chris Polk
Darren Sproles
DeMarco Murray
Ryan Mathews
Wow, that is one impressive group. Long way from the days of Anthony Toney, Mark Higgs and Robert Drummond, huh?
Tommy, did you get a chance to do a podcast with “The Supreme Hack?”
Not yet. I’ll try to see if we can do one this weekend. Had a couple of crazy scheduling conflicts come up at the last minute.
Keep up the good work Tommy. You have built up a fantastic site where I learn new things everyday. I started following about 2-3 years ago and my football knowledge has really grown. This site is a constant click for me and I look forward to wasting more time on here!
Hear hear! I don’t know where I’d be without this site. I really don’t like the comments at other sites.
Even if you like a guy like McLane, the comments there are really awful. There are sites like 24/7, were the comment section is pretty good (they have a few guys who are entertaining and who know their stuff, thankfully, you can read some of them around here, too; but they also have some users who aren’t that great).
But I prefer the section here, too. Many around here hate GEagle, but he doesn’t bother me at all, I like him to be honest (doesn’t mean I always agree with him…). But other than GEagle against the GEagle haters, it’s really civil here. Civil + good, by some users great knowledge –> great comment section.
Great comment section + thoughtful analysis = great site.
I agree. This site is definitely more informed. We all aren’t screaming for Landon Collins.
Funny you say that. I know he isn’t a scheme fit for what we do at all. But the more I think about it, they more I would prefer him. Especially if Mathis stays and there isn’t a OL we LOVE at 20.
Collins is a good Safety and clearly the best in this draft. We literally have NOTHING at Safety. Why not change the scheme a little bit and go with FS and SS? I don’t know why Jenkins shouldn’t be able to play centerfield. And while Collins is bad at man coverage, he’s good at SS.
Yes, it may be a little short sighted. And to be honest, no, I don’t think we’ll do it. But I don’t know if it wouldn’t be the right thing to do. After all, it’s not like our coverage scheme and our Secondary have worked to far.
Chip said we’ll see more of Sproles and Ertz next year. He changes his scheme to the personell that’s available. Would it really be a bad idea to change the way your Safeties play, after the play of the Secondary didn’t work at all in the last two years?
It’s not just that he is bad at man coverage, he simply isn’t worth #20. There are so many better prospects with more upside like Clemmings, Strong, possibly Dupree, Fischer. Even if Mathis stays that’s still a 34 y/o guard, you know? If Collins is there in the 2nd or third I would take shot but if you want someone like Collins you may as well select Thompson because he can cover better and is a better tackler. He isn’t amazing at shedding blocks so he could get away with more of that as a safety.
Yep, three cheers for Tommy. Great articles and great commentators.
Chipwagon had 3 examples of Shady inappropriately bouncing/cutting that cost yardage in their series on the Eagles run game under Chip. To add to the snow bowl example Tommy gave:
http://www.thechipwagon.com/eagles/2015/02/the-philosophy-and-evolution-of-the-eagles-run-game-part-6-inside-zone-miscues.html
Great stuff. I’ll add that to the post.
Something just didn’t look right with McCoy last season as well. Not sure what it was but he didn’t look as dynamic or explosive. I wonder if moving to a new scheme and having more freedom to freelance will renew his vigor this season.
Your right. People kept on saying it and I just ignored it for awhile. As time went on though I couldn’t help but notice that his cuts and acceleration did seem to lack the same explosivnes that he had before.
yeah he was shakin and baking dudes, maybe it was the toe — maybe he lost a step. He’d apparently lost some weight for the scheme, stopped eating candy or something, maybe he needs to start again.
I remember reading that McCoy was determined to train harder than he ever did before last offseason and that he lost about 15 pounds prior to coming into training camp. I remember thinking at that time that that was a terrible thing for him to do. A guy like McCoy doesn’t have 15 pounds of fat to lose, so that weight had to involve the loss of muscle mass.
I thought McCoy looked smaller than I ever recall last year. He also seemed weak. He went down on first contact a lot, even with just arm tackles and his legs lacked that patented burst that defied physics and broke defenders ankles on a regular basis. I kept hoping that his lack of production was due to the oline injuries, but the more I watched him the more it became obvious. In fact, I can’t remember a single highlight reel run where he broke defenders ankles and made Barry Sanders-esque moves to create plays last year. All his long runs came from wide-open gaping holes created by the offensive line. When those holes weren’t there McCoy’s ability to create something out of nothing wasn’t there like it was in the past.
With Chips use of GPS devices to track players’ speeds and acceleration as they play, I’m sure he has actual spread sheets of hard numerical data that showed this decline, if it really existed.
yup
Good point about GPS never thought about the tracking aspect.
If true, it would seem as though a case study could be done in this area. Montee Ball used the same tactic (off-season weight loss) and it had a negative impact on his game (though I doubt it played any role in his injury).
Anyone aware of other RBs who lost weight and the effect the weight loss had on their stats?
Maybe he got caught up in the NFL rushing title. He wins the title based on all his smooth moves after the healthy OL makes big holes for him. Then he proclaims he is rushing for 2k yards the next year, which is stupid, not consistent with a team doing well, and just selfish as hell. Then maybe as you say he actually loses weight to make himself even more of a cutter (remembering what he did in 2013, thinking if he could just juke a few more people) but turns out he can’t get thru the OL as easily in 2014. He seems like the kind of guy to get caught up in himself.
for me it was just a product of him being frustrated and pressing too much to make something happen because his OL was a mess… in 2013 he was a terror because he would hit the hole and then cut back when all the defense started to flow to him because he made it thru the hole… Last year you see so many blatant examples of shady and Foles not trusting the OL… defenses played Shady better last year, they were waiting for his cutback, and he made it worse often, by trying to cutback right away to compensate for the DL waiting for him….. Alot was on the OL, but shady made it worse by trying to be superman and do too much to overcompensate…. so when you get an OL thats a mess(center getting blown back into the QBs lap every play), Defensive Lines that were sitting on his cutbacks, and a frustrated proud running back thats trying to do too much, you get last years mess(especially first half of the year when we were playing with that bum Molk)
…
when it became obvious that every DL was sitting on his cutbacks, he needed to start the game off, hitting the holes hard, not cutting back, making them pay for them sitting on the cutbacks, gash them a couple times, and when they start chasing him, and abandon their cutback discipline, thats when Shady needed to strike,… But he was too frustrated, led to impatient running.. By Nature shadys style will take some big losses now and then, but when he loses all patience and trust in his Line, it all compounds its self and you get the horrible first half of the season we saw last year out of our run gae
My theory is that the helmet to helmet collision against Washington in game 3 did more damage than we realized.
Very interesting theory.
Or they could just read the comments section here. 🙂
Great. Now we need to create a password to get to the comments. Why do I feel like the password might end up being PBR?
MEGANFOXFUNYANSPBR1234
Br1anR0ll34eva!
http://www.sportsgeekery.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/brian-rolle-2.gif
Look what you did. Now Tommy has to change his bank accnt., ATM machine, and the security system on house.
Another receiver that I think worth mentioning is Kenny Bell from Nebraska. He checks off several boxes that Chip will love so lets go through them: First and foremost he has the hands you would want and doesn’t give away the ball position when it is in the air. Second he can play special teams as a returner and does a good job of setting up his blocks to make holes for himself. This consists of going toward the sideline at the beginning of the return and then making a cut back to the middle so he can get the defense flowing one way and then cut against the grain. Third, he has decent size at 6’1 and almost 200 lbs at the combine. His weight was a factor during the year where he only played at 185. He was able to come into the combine and run a 4.42 (4.37 at his pro day for what it is worth) 40 and record a 41.5 inch vertical. Bell is also not afraid to finish his runs with a good shoulder to the defender. The aggression is always a great thing to see, we don’t want any weak fairies. Fourth, his route running seems to be one of his strong points and I am learning that the “stem” of the route tree is very important because running it straight does not give away, to the db, what you are going to do once you get to the break, the only thing the db can think of, until you break is, “this guy is running a “go” route.” Bell also does a great job of sinking his hips into he cuts and this frequently allows him to gain separation and place him in a great spot for RAC. All these things must have worked for him because I believe he is the all time receiver for receptions and yards at Nebraska. So the question is why not get this guy in the second round? Well, there is still the question of how much weight he can pack on and keep his agility. I will say he was almost 200 lbs at the combine and still was able to rank best in the 3-cone at 6.66 secs and broad at 129 inches. He is one of those guys who is just a really solid football player that isn’t afraid to get dirty and take on blockers, play ST, ect. He doesn’t have “elite” speed, agility or size but overall is a super solid prospect and if he falls to the 4th there should be no question in taking him.
Look at you getting better at the scouting stuff! Good shit man. Welcome aboard the Kenny Bell train.
https://twitter.com/Astonia67/status/574747567105441792
Frisbee skills are off the charts as well. How well do you think he can perform with an Aero disk?
BULLSHIT, I STARTED THE TRAIN!!!!!!!!! Even though you posted that on the 8th………. I still started it………. Thank you, btw.
Calm down GEAGLE… 😛
Been a fan for a little while now. I’d love for us to have him.
we gotta have him then
This team needs a good hair doo
I like Kenny Bell, but he doesn’t have good hands. He does have, as you mention, great ball skills, but he’s not a natural catcher. Fights the ball, double-catches, can’t “pluck it”.
Disagree, I’ve seen him pluck plenty of balls. There have been a few deep ones in the end zone where he has double caught but other than that any drops he has are concentration relat3d. Once again he is not a first rounder and I believe his hands are plenty good. You often talk about “x” receiver not having good hands, not everyone is OBJ.
Good. Now get on the Tre McBride train and you’re almost set.
What I find so funny about the media and fans who bitch about truth and honesty is how little they’d have to write or talk about if Chip just printed up the plan out from WordPerfect and posted a scan of it on the website.
HE DOESN”T USE A FULLBACK, THAT’S WHY WE SUKKK!
So what happened to the o-lineman from Hopkins?
I told you I don’t know. And frankly I’m not going to stalk a Hopkins educated science major, who is the best D3 OL I’ve ever seen and is from Jersey.
You go stalk this guy:
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/jhop/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/7850391.jpeg
I must have missed your answer. Won’t make that mistake again, coach
No problem here’s the repost:
I honestly don’t know. He was a two time first team all-american, andprior to his senior season there was buzz that he was the top d3 prospect, so I really don’t know what happened to him. I do recall that he did have a pretty intense science based major, so he may have just not gotten alot of hype and decided to go to grad school.
I mean if Marpet doesn’t get brought to the Senior Bowl by Phil Savage, he probably plays in like the medal of honor bowl, he probably doesn’t get invited to the combine, and you’re looking at a guy who is hoping a scout will pound the table for him on day 3, but odds are that he’s probably a priority UDFA. Which means he would be fighting to make a practice squad, and because he was a UDFA, he’s running with the 4th line instead of the 1s or 2s so he’s being affected by those around him and dealing with fewer reps to make an impression the coaching staff.
Because Savage really put him on Marpet’s likely going in the top 100, will likely get a shot to at least challenge for a starting job as a rookie and short of the wheels completely falling off or injury probably makes rosters in the league for at least 7-8 years due to his versatility.
Incredible break for Marpet. Wow. Thanx
I do enjoy listening to Phil Savage on NFL Radio. Seems like an actual good guy.
“NERRRRRDSSS!”
I think it’s fairly obvious at this point how Chip views skill position players and, ultimately, I think it relates to his overall philosophy on offensive production as it purtains to a study of game theory. I said this last year when Kelly let DeSean Jackson go. Kelly prefers low variance/consistent players that can repeat the same feat over and over again. At the time of Jackson’s release, I used the analogy of a RB, asking, “would you rather have a RB that gains 4 yards on every single carry 100% of the time or a RB that is guaranteed to bust off one 80 yard run and have 19 runs for zero yards on all his other carries?”
If you gave each of these players 20 carries per game they’d both end up with a stat line of 80 yards and 4 yards per carry. However, there is an obvious difference in what each is bringing to the table and the effect that each player would ultimately have on a team’s success at winning the game. And, clearly any fan or coach would tell you that the guy that gains 4 yards every single time is the player you would prefer.
Obviously, the example is not completely realistic. No player’s performance is so absolutely predictable in those terms. However, when the example is taken to the extreme, like the situation I described above, the benefits of low variance are clear. Despite similar overall numbers/stats, the high variance player, despite wowing the crowd with his electric ability to create an 80 yard play, is consistently holding the offense back, shortening drives and failing to keep the offense moving when he’s not breaking a long run. Whereas the low variance player that gains 4 yards every single time he touches the ball will consistently allow the offense to march up and down the field and score points.
High variance production is also very random. When you absolute need 4 yards in crunch time, when the games on the line, having a high variance player is not beneficial. You want the guy that you can trust to get the needed result. Against the best teams in the league, the sort of teams you seen in the playoffs, high variance players tend to disappear more often than not. Teams are too good to allow the miraculous to happen and it’s the teams that convert those 3rd and 4s or 3rd and goals into first downs or TDs consistently that ultimately win the game more often than not. Those plays aren’t always highlight reel worthy and they don’t always show up in the stat sheet, but they are nonetheless the most important plays in any game.
High variance players are a good investment if your team is overall poor and over matched. A high degree of variance will allow an overmatched team to occasionally upset a clearly better team. But, if your goal is to build a consistent competitor, an elite team that wins week after week and year after year, the goal should be to fill the team with high end, low variance talent, that consistently and repetitively keep your offense on the field and moving forward even if it’s at the expense of seemingly electric talent that’s capable of making impossible highlight reel plays. And, ultimately, I think the subtractions of DeSean Jackson and LeSean McCoy are Chip’s attempt at realizing his ideal vision for a systematic, mechanical offense that marches up and down the field at warp speed, constantly moving forward and consistently scoring points throughout the game.
To add to your argument, chip did use the term “repeat accuracy” in his description of what he looks for in a QB. Though not analogous, it is built from the same foundation you are describing.
Exactly! I think it is perfectly analogous. Notice Chip never describes his ideal players as athletic freaks that can burn teams with huge plays. He’s not looking for a RB with Barry Sanders like agility. He’s not looking for WRs with unmatched speed like DeSean Jackson or QBs that can launch a frozen rope 70 yards with the flick of the wrist or the ability to make things happen with their legs and supreme athletic traits. He’s looking for players that EXECUTE consistently and repetitively in key areas of their games. The ideal player for Chip is one who’s defining talent is in being more consistent and reliable than his peers in his execution of scheme and technique.
For Chip, his offensive scheme will create big plays naturally when it’s executed to perfection so it’s better to find players that excel at repetitively executing all the minor details rather than players who excel because their defining talent is otherworldly speed or agility that allows them to sometimes create big plays on their own outside of the scheme, but keeps them from achieving big plays that naturally present themselves. The one form of getting big plays is controllable and replicable and inherent to his offense with perfect execution. The other is random and dependent on his players being physically more talented than the team he’s playing. WRs will be open more often than not because of the scheme, if a QB can connect at a high rate when those opportunities present themselves without doing anything miraculous the offense will keep humming along.
Chip obviously has a scheme, he just needs guys that can execute than, and wants to rely less on pure “talent”.
Yea…I think Herreman’s quote about Chip thinking his scheme can create big plays and that he doesn’t need talented skill players to make it work is only half true though. It’s not that Chip thinks he can succeed with a bunch of bargain basement replacement level players at skill positions or that he won’t pay good money to skill position players. It’s just that the skill that he’s looking for is somewhat unconventional and not what the typical observer sees as skill or talent. Chip wants players who’s talent is an otherworldly ability to execute consistently and repetitively, not someone that’s faster or stronger or more agile than everyone else. It’s a talent for sure, just not what we’re typically accustomed to view as a talent. DeSean Jackson is talented because he can make the miraculous happen. He’s faster than everyone else and he can blow the top off of any defense at any time and can take any play at any given time to the house. But, players like Cris Carter and Hines Ward were also talented. They could catch everything that came their way. They could always get open against man or zone, in the red zone or at mid field and they could do it over and over. They never really made your jaw drop by making people miss and creating big plays, but they still had talent. I just think that’s the type of talent Chip prefers. He wants the guy who bats .500 and hits tons of singles and doubles as opposed to the guy that bats .200 leads the league in strike outs, but hits 50 home runs every year.
If that’s the case, though, a player like Evan Mathis should be a priority to keep around.
I think you’re generally right though, that he values a different set of skills than is typical.
My understanding is that the Eagles would love to keep Evan around but he keeps demanding a new contract and more money and the Eagles have no incentive to hand it over as he’s under contract and are just exercising their leverage by telling him fine if your unhappy you’re free to explore trade options. In truth, they know full well that no team is going to trade for 34 yr old G coming off an injury plagued year and hand him more than $6mil per year on top of that.
I agree 100%. I think Chip’s #measurables are directly tied to this, too: Players won’t be able to consistently execute the details he cares about if they’re below a certain number, and have a greater chance of consistently executing if they’re above a certain number.
Your comments are really thought-provoking. I doubt that you have the variance stats of the first-round suspects at your disposal, but I would love to hear your opinion based on what you have been able to learn.
Thanks for the compliment. I love discussing the game theory aspects of Football and how one can best theoretically build a team and allocate resources. Unfortunately, I’m very limited in my knowledge of college football players. I have a very busy demanding job and really only have time to follow one sport year round and thats professional football. So, I don’t really have many formed opinions on the first round prospects. If you’re watching video of the prospects though look for players the produce consistently while displaying supreme execution of flawless technique. Also, look at players that display a true love for football and prepare and practice better than their peers. In the first few rounds I doubt we’ll see Chip take many players with inconsistent production or athletic freaks that are considered projects with poor technique.
I remember watching Odell Beckham last year and thinking he was one of the best WRs I had ever watched. I played WR back in my playing days and I was astounded by his technique, route running and hand eye coordination. He ran better routes than anyone I had seen in years and displayed a lot of knowledge about body position and stemming his routes perfectly to beat man coverage. I thought he was the best WR in the draft by far. Even better than Sammy Watkins who everyone had has the top rated WR. I was pretty happy to hear that Chip had him rated so high too. If you’re looking at WRs look for the ones that run excellent routes and execute perfect technique. RBs…look for downhill one cut runners that display patience and an ability to hit the right hole consistently. QBs repetitive accuracy and the ability of a good point guard. Lineman: athletic lineman with great technique and execution. As for specifics and specific players I really don’t have much to add…sorry.
I was so hoping Beckham would fall through the cracks. Your analysis has prompted me to go back and examine why I like who I like. I had Clemmings above Fisher for OL, but now I am not so sure. Fisher is probably ahead of Clemmings in the area of variance. Clemmings has the potential to be great, but he isn’t there now. Fisher has ben more consistent. Thanks again for really good input, and if you saw enough last year to recognize Beckham’s worth, you may have some opportunities this year too. The draft hype is set to go into next gear when BB is over.
Thanks again for the complement. I’ll definitely start looking at college prospects as we get closer to the draft. Remember though when we’re talking about variance in production we’re not necessarily talking about the variance in projecting a player. Some players have very wide range of outcomes, they have high ceilings but could also be total busts. I see Chip avoiding big risks like that, but as it pertains to our discussion of game theory and low variance players, we’re talking about something very different. In that situation, a high variance player is one who’s defining skill, the thing that separates him from his peers, is something that is a random hit or miss. A WR like DeSean has otherworldly speed. He’s faster than almost anyone else on the field. Therefore he can score from anywhere and make amazing draw dropping plays. However, those plays require so much to go right, teams can scheme away his big plays effectively if they stay disciplined and play with proper technique, and therefore those big plays are rare (even if he makes them happen more than any other WR). At the same time that he has this incredible skill, he lacks skills that allow him to consistently and repetitively hurt teams when they take away his big play. He either has a big play or he has no effect on the game at all. His production therefore is extremely variable, it’s high variance. Some games he destroys people some games he disappears completely. McCoy is similar. He has otherworldly agility and makes draw dropping moves and creates big plays out of nothing. But, he lacks the discipline to hit the hole and get 4 yards consistently. His variance is more on a play by play basis. His runs either go for big gains when his crazy jukes and cutting back across the field work, or he loses yards when they don’t. These two players high variance nature is based not on their potential to either be great or a total bust, but is rather inherent to the skill set they bring. Jackson will never physically be able to consistently beat tight coverage and make clutch plays when you need it in a predictable manner. His skills don’t lend to that type of game. Similarly, McCoy will never be the type of runner that takes 4 yards when nothing else is there, he’s always going to go for the big play and suffer lots of negative plays in the process. So, while you’re re-evaluating players look for players who’s skill sets will naturally allow them to consistently execute at a high level within the scheme.
Chip has said often enough that we all know he likes big guys. This is a vague metric, but it does show, I think, that he wants to improve his odds, go for a high batting average as opposed to a long ball hitter who either hits home runs or long outs or strikes out. Of course, the best players are the ones who hit for average AND bat with power. The highest rated player in 2015 is or was Leonard Williams, and he’s a veritable beast who will dramatically improve any defense he plays for. He requires double-team protection, and he is agile and quick and he’s a 302lb DE. It seems that the ability to consistently win your battles – i.e., low-variance, is really what everyone is seeking, but it is easy to be seduced by the spectacular, and therein lies the challenge. I have very little insight into Chip’s perspective on this draft, but I would not be surprised if he selects a large-framed WR.
Such an excellent point. Everyone wants players that are the fastest, biggest, strongest all at once while simultaneously being heady players that execute at a high level of proficiency. Unfortunately, those players don’t exist. So no matter where you decide to go you have to make compromises on something. What I think we’re seeing is where Chip is willing to make compromises. He’d rather compromise a singular elite skill like speed (DeSean Jackson) than compromise the ability to execute simple plays to gain 7 yards when you need 6. Chip seems to gravitate towards traits that will give his players a consistent advantage and allow them to execute the ordinary at an extraordinary level of efficiency rather than the skill that will occasionally allow his player to absolutely dominate on one play but that can be taken away on the typical play. Height over speed at WR, downhill running over Barry Sanders-esque cutting ability.
The one ramification of this theory, which comes down to it’s simplicity in the face of an extremely complex game, is what effect does a high variance player like DeSean Jackson have on the defensive scheme that you face. Defensive coordinators and players take note of those huge back breaking plays just like us fans do and they adjust accordingly. DeSean Jackson strikes fear into DCoordinators and DBs in a way that Jeremy Maclin or Jordan Matthews could only dream about. Teams, ultimately, adjust their schemes to try and stop the big plays from happening which often opens up the field for other players. In this way, high variance players can have positive effects on the success of the offense even when they’re not producing.
So, if the low variance players you replace your high variance players with aren’t good enough to execute properly and consistently when the high variance player isn’t there to draw a bunch of attention, the final product is a step back with a loss of the big play and a lack of benefit from consistent production from low variance players (see Riley Cooper and Nick Foles from last year).
The problem with building a team around high variance players though, despite the clear benefits that they give you, is that the truly good teams that you end up facing in the playoffs are usually good enough to prevent the big plays without sacrificing much of their overall scheme and leaving the other parts of the field open for other players to exploit. Ultimately, an offense that’s seemingly overflowing with talent, but built around high variance players, typically wilts in the playoffs and fails to capitalize where it really matters (Win/Loss in big games and the playoffs), despite a roster seemingly chock full of talented players (see the McCoy, Jackson, Vick years where we constantly heard about how talented we were and how we were so much better than our W/L record would indicate and how we just needed to play up to our talent). In the end, it’s just a losing formula that ultimately leads to disappointment.
Excellent, excellent observations. Chip learned early on he could not compete for elite talent like the SEC. Using scheme that rewards consistent, precise execution, he knew he could even or beat the odds.
Pretty happy about this draft. I thought the trade downs were more reasonable than others available:
Round 1 Pick 29 (IND): T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh (B+)
Round 2 Pick 20: Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut (A-)
Round 2 Pick 29 (IND): Nelson Agholor, WR, Southern California (A)
Round 3 Pick 20: Chris Conley, WR, Georgia (F)
Round 4 Pick 14: Eric Rowe, CB/FS, Utah (A-)
Round 4 Pick 29 (IND): David Cobb, RB, Minnesota (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Austin Shepherd, OT, Alabama (C+)
Round 5 Pick 20: Kenny Bell, WR, Nebraska (B+)
Round 6 Pick 20: Alani Fua, OLB, Brigham Young (C)
Round 7 Pick 20: Kyle Christy, P, Florida (C+)
I like it. Really big Kenny Bell fan if we can get him in the 5th that would be awesome.
Dream. Draft.
omg thats hawt.
yeah chip doesn’t seem like the type to ever say anything bad about one of his former players. But when he talks up mariota it’s because he wants him though and not just because every college coach will talk up their QB to up their draft stock.
I actually think Chip is pretty transparent with what he feels about players. He heaps praise on Brent Celek like he’s his long lost son. But, compare that to the things he said about McCoy and Jackson. Whenever asked about McCoy last year, Chip would say things like, “yea he’s ok, he’s got a lot of stuff he can do better and he’ll be the first to tell you that.” How’s McCoy in practice? “Sometimes he’s really good other days not so much.” Nick Foles…”Nicks a tremendous guy. I wish there were more people in our lives like Nick Foles.” Yea, but is he the guy at starting QB going into next year? “Well, it’s a process evaluating him and we haven’t completed that process yet so I don’t have an answer at this time.”
When he talks about Mariota he glows. He heaps praise on him that’s definitely more than just being nice about a former player. He compares him to Peyton Manning and repeats over and over how he’s the best QB in college and how he knew from day one of his freshman year that this kid would eventually win the Heisman. And, this isn’t just to the press out in the open and in public. There’s been multiple reports that behind closed doors when he was interviewing for head coaching positions that he told front offices that he was convinced that Mariota would win multiple Super Bowls as a pro. I have a feeling that if he could get Mariota he’d absolutely jump at the opportunity.
I dont think he goes above and beyond when praising mariiota.
I’m really not trying to take anything away from McCoy, because even though he didn’t look like his old self last year, he’s still a top 5 back. But, if you’re only comparing him to himself from the past, I think it’s clear that he had started to decline last year. Watch his highlight video from last year. He still looks really good, but how many times does he do something that any other above average back couldn’t replicate? In 6min of highlights I counted somewhere between zero and 3 times he really did something incredible…and I think 3 is being generous. Compare that to his 2013 highlights and there’s no question.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xvmx8PcVRt0
For comparison here’s 2013…my jaw dropped no less than 15 times in this 6min clip:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPLMc6V8Z0
you dont know if he had some nagging injury in one clip and was perfectly healthy in the other..
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Id bet Shady has a MONSTER year for the Bills, but Rex pounding him all year is what will start his decline.. thats my guess…but we’ll see
McCoy lead the NFL in touches over the last 2 years, Kelly already started the pounding
yup, but he took less pounding in two years of chips spread then he will probably take running under Rex..
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for all I know, when september rolls around Shady will look 5 years older or he can go on to have 3 monster seasons…. but if i had to bet, ,my money would be on 1 big year as a Bill, followed by a nose dive in decline… but obviously my guess is no better then yours
I do know that in an entire years worth of highlights from 2013 he consistently week in and week out made jaw dropping cuts, insane spin moves and inhuman jukes…whereas in a similar cut up of his entire 2014 season he does not do any of those things once. The difference in his physical ability between the two years is obvious. He’s still plenty fast enough, he still has way above average agility but he’s no longer the super human shady from 2011-2013
But but muh McCoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No big deal since Kelly doesn’t disclose his reasoning or even lies/doesn’t tell the truth. Common practice among NFL coaches.
Just been really hard to figure out where the actual truth resides between what Kelly the GM has done this offseason vs what Kelly has said the previous few years as tenants things he believes.
Chip had a stud running back in Shady, chip new rb’s are expendable and shady was great trade bait. Pick up a stud LB boom no time wasted. Sign Mathews and Murray, Brilliant!!
The Eagles reportedly offered the largest deals to Maxwell and Murray. Hard to call those moves ‘brilliant’ since they just paid top dollar (and overpaid in Maxwell’s case) to acquire them.
multiple reports say that Murray was offered significantly more from the raiders but took less to come here..
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Overpaid for Maxwell? LOL yeah ok… paying what it takes to get the best upgrade available isnt overpaying. no shit they paid Maxwell the most, thats what “the prettiest girl at the dance” said it would take to get him to sign…
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people like you bitch about the money that it took to get it done,. but you would be bitching so much more if they didnt upgrade the CB position because they didnt want to “overpay”
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you are worth what you can negotiate… overpay? give me a break… corners been getting roasted for half a decade, leave it up to eagles fans to bitch about the price it took to fix a problem that has plagued us for too long. cant ever win with an eagles fan, thats why they are better off shutting us out
You contradict yourself so much you don’t even apparently know anymore. All last offseason you ranted and railed on everyone who criticized the secondary and said they wanted the Eagles to really upgrade the players they had.
I admit I wanted Byrd at S and he turned out to be a bust last year due to the injury.
This offseason you started out vehemently arguing that the Eagles should just replace Fletcher and keep Williams. Then when Williams got cut and Maxwell signed you changed your stance on that.
Yes signing Maxwell certainly makes the Eagles better at CB but I don’t just think he was worth money nor is going to perform close too it either. He’ll be an above average CB but not the elite corner he is being paid.
Your right about Murray. He didn’t say what the amount was but said he had a better offer on the table (inferring the Raiders).
I think Maxwell is a key cog though. Once we find key upgrades at S and CB then the whole unit could be at an elite status with Maxwell; you never had that confidence with misfits like C. Williams/B.Fletcher and N. Allen.
The cap hit for this year wasn’t close to what shady’ would’ve been. Besides 2 for the price of 1, including a pro bowler type of lb I thought it was a great deal. No guts no glory.
Amen! I understand why writers want to get the truth for their articles, but the amount of whining from local beat guys has been out of control. That type of “reporting” actually hurts the team, and as fans we should not encourage it.
This will be Kelly’s third year. Look at the RBs he’s had here.
Now the WRs…
Lol. I am actually really excited what he has in store to draft, especially with back to back deep WR classes.
I think we’d all love and pay lots of money to have real insider access to our favorite team and be able to hear the real strategies and plans etc. That would be insanely fun. But that isn’t happening. The “lots” of money I could pay isn’t “lots” to Jeff Lurie.
So the flip side is, we just don’t get to know. I still think Chip’s so much more entertaining than Andy and I don’t care if there are inconsistencies sometimes. What does an inconsistency prove, that he isn’t telling the full truth? But we all know that even without the inconsistencies.
You would think the Eagles were a terrorist cell with the way the Inquirer and CSN reporters analyze every word the organization says to try to uncover a conspiracy worthy of a Pulitzer.
Flyers are not going to make the playoffs and are boring for the most part facing an indefinite rebuild period. Phillies are putrid, are completely lacking in any young talent, and led by an incredibly unpopular GM. Sixers are irrelevant to the draft in June.
Nova got knocked out early of the NCAA tourney.
There is little else worthwhile to cover in the way of professional or college sports in town right now until the NFL draft.
And so is the nature of sports.
i dont think it has to be one or the other(style or money).. Truth is, probably both factored into the decision.. i dont believe much of what chip says, but i dont think he would lie about something that a slimeball like Rosenhause can refute.. he specifically said he approached rosenhouse about the contract and they werent willing to budge from the 11mil..i doubt he would lie about something that Rosenhause could refute easily.
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i do believe the part about him wanting 2 starting caliber backs for the price of shady. i do believe that the plan was Gore AND Ryan…
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think a little bit of everything factored into this decision, stylistic RB(the big powerbacks are the ones that go deep in playoffs), getting 2 for the price of 1, wanting Kiko..
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but whatever, water under the bridge. Only way we will ever learn for sure is by seeing his future moves at RB..
Well, there is no way Rosenhaus wouldn’t have lowered the cap hit for more guar. money. No way, because it would have been in Shadys interest.
That being said, he wouldn’t take a clear pay cut. And I think that’s what Chip wanted. Imo, he thinks Murray is the better fit for what he wants to do, so he pays him good money. But Shady would have to take a pay cut and he wouldn’t. Therefore, it’s style and money combined, like you said.
And there is Kiko, of course. Not only is he young and very talented, he’s cheap as hell for two years and then he’s a RFA, so he doesn’t have much leverage. If he can stay healthy, you have a great young ILB cheap under control for THREE YEARS. If not – well, it was worth the gamble anyway.
exactly… im sure the style part mattered, im sure it all mattered… but lets not kid ourselves, money is always factored into the equation,..
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chip talked about hoping this is a special offseason and that in the future we have quiet free agencies and really focus on building thru the draft.. so while people can argue that in the long run the murray and shady contract are similar, getting rid of shady freed up money to make this drastic overhaul THIS YEAR… and if next year the murray money is the same asd the shady money, so be it, i think chip hopes to have his foundation in place after this offseason and have a quiet free agency next year, so freeing up the money for THIS years overhaul IMO was important, even if the numbers even out between shady and murray in the future years of the deal
I understand Kelly lying, but I also understand the media and fans calling him on it.
Don’t on the one hand talk up Marcus Smith and talk about how teams were asking for too much to move up after the draft last year, and then a year later claim you didn’t have final say and disassociate yourself from the process. Don’t claim this year that you remove yourself from the discussion of Oregon prospects when last year you said that Hart was graded as a Rd 3 pick and that Roseman convinced you that they could wait on him. It’s perfectly understandable for you to lie when you think it’s to benefit the team, but it’s also reasonable for outsiders to hold you to your word and question you when you don’t stick with it.
you understand fans and media crying about him lying when this time of year NO ONE tells the truth?
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this lying shit is getting out of hand… go win some football games, ultimately what you say means NOTHING…
So why do you write long posts analyzing what Kelly said a d drawing all kinds of conclusions. Like your post about how Kelly said they didn’t want to trade Foles to the rams.
So what do you want to do, fire Kelly because he lied?
Never said that. I’m fine with him lying. I’m also fine with the media writing articles pointing out his inconsistencies.
Kelly had Hart as a 4th, not a 3rd.
Pretty sure, post-draft, he said he graded him in the 3rd. I tried to find a link to his actual day 3 post-draft PC or a transcript of one, and couldn’t find one. I’ll try harder to search when I have more time.
Im pretty sure it was at the Watkins pick he wanted Hart.
it was
I think that’s correct. But I also remember him saying that Hart was graded as a Rd 3 pick.
you are both right
the articles are ridiculous.. media has this much of a problem with it, then use your questions to ask chip about the discrepencies in his statements… I know what he said in the past, i know what he said now, I dont need lazy eporter trying to fill his quota writing an article crying about the inconsistencies.. we know what was said… you have that much of a problem with it, then take it up with chip, and write about his response
In the offseason, Chip doesn’t have media availabilities very often. I’m not going to say it’s impossible for a well-prepared reporter, but to answer that follow-up question in his PC at the league meetings you’d have to anticipate what his answer would be and done the research to know that is inconsistent with his past statements. The next time the media will have an opportunity to question Chip will be in his post-draft PC.
my beef is that by now, the reporters should know how Lurie and Chip operate… as a fan, i have waited MONTHS to hear our leaders talk, yet our beat reporters waste half of their questions asking questions we all know have NO SHOT IN HELL OF GETTING A TRUTHFUL ANSWER.. so why waste what few questions you get to ask a guy who has been MIA for months on shit you wont get a real answer to?
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when a reporter asks a specific question, as a fan listening I bet right away you can tell if thats a question that chip will respond to, or if its a question that he wont truthfully respond to, so the reporters should know it, and since this regime hasnt talked for months, how about asking questions that have a chance of getting some real answers for the fans?
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yet half the time these joke beat reporters are like 1 step away of the clown media that asked Beastmode 28 questions when it was clear he was going to answer every single question the exact same way… its a joke… your job is to get info for fans, part of that is knowing what info you can realistically get, and what info you have no chance in getting so might as well not waste one of your few questions asking,., its ridiculous.
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if you have a week of access to chip, and you know you will get to ask him questions again tomorrow, then go ahead and ask him whatever you want..
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but when a guy hasnt talked for MONTHS and we KNOW that he WONT talk again til after ROUND 1 of the draft, I expect you to ask some questions that you have a chance of getting response. instead of asking dumb questions that will only result in writing articles about chip lying,..
Its pretty interesting that Kelly wanted Robert Woods as part of the McCoy trade. I think its very telling that for WRs, Kelly do not care about size as much, but more about ability to beat press, block in the run game and gain YAC
you really think that if chip could have had Woods or Kiko, he would have actually chose woods?
Why would Rex Ryan lie about what the Eagles asked for?
you think when it was time to make the decision chip would have taken Woods over Kiko?… thats different then asking about what names were thrown around during the 30 minute negotiation,,, im asking when it came down to it, do you actually think friggin chip would have taken Woods over Kiko? yes? no?
Im not going to pretend to what Kelly would have done, but why ask for one or the other if you didnt rate em equal?
we dont know if thats the case.. for all we know we know chip thought a defensive stud like Kiko was untouchable to rex and he went into the talks not thinking getting kiko was realistic… woods name may have been a part of the first 10 minutes of the negotiation and then quickily ruled him out and set our sites on kiko when we realized getting him was realistic…. we really have no idea.
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but personally,. I cant possibly believe that if Rex told chip, pick one, woods or Kiko… that chip would have ever taken woods and passed on Kiko… but then again, I think missing out on Dion, Long and Kiko really bothered chip back in 2013.. since then he has brought up kikos name a couple times in press confrences to illustrate his points..
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i guess we can agree to disagree
I don’t think there’s a direct quote of Ryan saying that. This information comes from Sal Palantonio, so it’s basically garbage.
This is a whole article about “spinning the truth” and coaches using mis-direction to fool other teams etc etc…and this guy is asking “why would Ryan lie”…lmfao…
Because Rex Ryan is not Chip Kelly.
So — Rex is the only coach in the nfl who doesn’t lie or is Chip the only coach in the nfl that does lie?
lol chip is the only coach that lies this time of year..
That Sal Pal report on 97.5 was a classic. BREATHLESS that the Bills did not know that Shady was on the market before the Eagles called. And it only took 30 minutes! Then he described the Eagles request as Alonso, Woods, or both.
Do you want to give us one player or two? Hey, your choice!
wholly snots — this again? Do we have to see it every article?
Reid got beat up for not talking enough and Kelly is getting beat up for talking too much. Just can’t win in Philly.
give anything to see chip win a superbowl just so he can go full bellichek and put an end to media access..
Actually a really good point. As much as the reporters and fans bitch about Chip not being honest or not talking, you don’t hear a lot from Pats fans and writers about Belicheck and his media availability. Amazing what a couple rings will do to quiet everyone down.
anytime they get out of line, bellichek hits them with the “dont make me backhand you with my rings bitches!!!”
When Chip gives us parade #2, he will be labeled the Sage of South Philly, admired for his affable non-answers, and envied for his ability to rise above the nit-picking, petty shits who depend on controversy to sell a story.
I really struggle why everyone gets so wound up about the “truth” coming out of the coach. Or the player for that matter. Its all spin, including commentary by McCoy post trade, Kelly post trade, Lurie post trade, post organizational shuffle etc. That is good business and no bridge burning. The spin actually does an effective job of telling the truth anyway if you read between the lines.
Why is everyone so intent on being an amateur capologist and forensic accountant as it relates to the money aspect of any of Chip’s moves so far?Whether it is Murray, Bradford, McCoy, why does it bother some people? Being way under the cap does not win the Super Bowl. Contracts are essentially portable or removable if you make a mistake. The only real issue becomes whether you have the bare minimum flexibility you need on a yearly basis with an effective purge option if things go horribly wrong.
you cant handle the fucking truth!!!!! sorry, i wanted to write that all morning…
Well said.
ok, I’ll ask, does your name have anything to do with fishing?
Hello?
370 can be a model and “hs” for fishing reels means “High Speed”…I know wayyyyyy off topic…and 0773* means he’s in my area…lol….
hello asshole…
Look at the number upside down and backwards….spells out “hello asshole”
Look at it like it was on a calculator. Then flip the calculator upside down.
I now have a dunce cap on…
read it backwards
Read upside down and backwards.
I thought(and it’s just memory) that Shady said they never approached him about contract. I thought that spoke volumes…
chip said the opposite, that he talked to drew Rosenhause who made it clear he wasnt willing to budge from the 11mil figure
Sure it does because it effects their ability to address other areas especially Bradford’s salary this year & the big numbers Maxwell/Murray carry going ahead forward.
As for the ‘truth’ it doesn’t really matter that much but it was clearly an organization that had a lot of disarray & uncertainty this offseason because of the power struggle the occurred.
Chip won and now he entirely owns the results including the draft. No throwing Roseman under the bus as he did with the Smith pick and the draft last year this offseason.
Bradford has one year at this salary. That is a no lose prospect. If he performs, he is up for a new deal from us or anyone else. If he doesn’t that number is available next year. Trent Cole, Herremans, next year Demeco there are always options every year to get your salary back in line. Nothing has hampered their ability to get players in other areas this year, they bid big on multiple players but you cant win every one. And those we did not bid on were not of interest obviously so money is not hampering them in any way, just the vision of the coach.
Power struggles happen all the time, the difference here is that you have a coach that does not give a crap what the media or anyone else thinks, just HIS BOSS. I prefer that over the PC garbage. I have no problem with him owning the weight of the draft and the player decision making, after all he is the one who has the most to lose/gain by those decisions. As for cap, don’t for a moment think that there isnt still influence in the rest of the management team that impacts the $$$$.
dont think this kelly era of RB’s is anything special. for as long as I can remember being a fan, we always had quality RB’s. Its a position I never really had to worry about as a fan, we were always good in the backfield
Since Ricky Watters. The RBs post Wilter Van Buren and pre-Watters stunk.
Yup. Cunningham never had a good back in his prime (best was Sherman) and even Walker when he got here wasn’t a Top 10 back in ’92 or ’93.
Heath Sherman weeps.
And Wilbert.
“Fans and the media want honesty.” I’ll agree with that 50%. The other 50% fans and media want validation for their own perceived truth as to what’s happening. For example:
DJ and Mathis. Fans are furious CK didn’t get nothing in return(for at least DJ for now). Fans want a validation that CK did absolutely nothing and that CK woke up one morning and said – “let’s cut DJ today”. Fans need CK to come out and say “we tried a few things”. Fans perceived CK is just doing things for sake of doing them…
if you guys havent seen it yet head to google and check it out..
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espn yesterday aired an interesting segment about chip. They went back and talked to his head coach and all the players at New Hampshire that were there when chip first started to implement this offense// really cool segment, basically a flashback of the true birth of the chip kelly offense…
I think players lie just as much as coaches. Just look at Jimmy Rollins. He’s been out of Philadelphia less than 4 months and he’s already trashing us. Does that mean everything nice he said about us when he was here was a lie? Probably. Players love fans when they applaud, but hate us when we boo them. Players aren’t stupid enough to say fans are a bunch of a-holes. You can only imagine how that “truth” would go over.
How did he really trash the fans or city or really say anything that was completely off-base?
The biggest problem IMO with the Phillies over the last couple years is Ryan Howard. If he’s hitting homeruns or he gets hot, he carries a team. They had no power, Utley had injuries, Halladay broke down, and for some reason the team forgot how to hit every time Hamels pitched. Just a perfect storm of things going wrong.
Plus Amaro giving up the farm to get a few players, then got nothing in return.
Ricky Watters tried to tell the truth. It didn’t go over well. “For who? For what?” became the honest answer that got him run out of town. It leads one to wonder what his career in Philly could have been, if only he remembered the rules:
If there is one thing Philly fans won’t tolerate, it’s bad grammar.
Does anyone actually believe those platitudes? It’s kind of like how every meeting with your boss begins with some “We appreciate all the work you’ve done!” right before they announce that there’s no raises this year, you workload is getting bigger, and they’re raising your copays. Whenever a coach or athlete goes into this crap, I check out.
“We’re from Philadelphia, and we fight.” Really, Chip? You’ve been here for a couple months.
I’m pretty sure it was Tommy who made a comparison between Chip and Jimmy Johnson as beng similar in their transitions from college to pro ball. Here’s someone who agrees: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ego–confidence-of-chip-kelly-reminiscent-of-jimmy-johnson-004504672.html
That is an interesting article to read right after Tommy’s screed on the “liar”. I think terms and meanings and contexts get conflated. Many of us use words like “truth” and “lie” in a legalistic context when that is not where any of us are living. Tommy’s narrative – and we all have more than a couple narratives, including the Chippah, is based on a concept of ultimate truth. Jeff Lurie’s explanation for the Shady trade, resonates with Tommy’s narrative. If Lurie’s explanation is true, than Chip is lying. In zero-sum reasoning, for every averred truth there is a liar.
But in Chip Kelly’s narrative, if I may infer, he is adaptable. He has been told numerous times that for his college spread offense to succeed in the NFL, he needs a mobile QB. He has repeatedly demurred, but the folks holding that narrative, are still clinging to it. In the context of the Shady trade, Chip has said that he loves Shady, but his salary was bloated and allocated too much revenue to one player, one position. In Chip’s narrative he doesn’t arbitrarily ditch productive players who frustrate him on occasion, because Chip can adapt. But staying with Chip’s narrative, he cannot acquire players he wants by hoping they will come to his door. He has to create the capacity to entice the players he wants, and, as he ha said, “to get somebody of value, you have to give up value…”
The Charles Robinson article that you provided a link to, lauds Kelly as a big-ego self-believer who is not afraid to bet on himself. He also suggests that Kelly is more forthcoming than most coaches, which is in contrast to the characterization of him as a liar. If we accept that we each have a singular perspective, Jeff Lurie’s explanation for the Shady trade and Chip Kelly’s explanation can co-exist without aspersions being cast in any direction.
most of the examples of the lying are so petty… the ONLY real TRUTH i would like to know is whats true:
1) Report that If Mathis cant find a trade we will cut him, basically wanting to clear that money and get younger at the position? or…
2) Chip saying that like last year we gave Mathis a chance to explore trades, but that we are hoping he ends up coming back to us like last year
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thats really the only “Truth” that really matters to me, and I guess I’ll get my answer. No one will trade for Mathis, so if he gets cut, chip was lying. If he doesnt get cut, our beat reporters are spreading bullshit as usual… and EVEN if Chip LIED to us about this, HE SHOULD LIE, we are trying to get value for mathis, why would I want him to tell us the truth, if the truth (cutting mathis) would completely devalue him and ruin any chance of getting any compensation for inevitably losing him?
Chip did say he ‘hopes’ Mathis is on the team this year. He made it sound like it’s in Mathis’ court. But that could mean anything from ” we gave him permission to seek a trade” to “we tried to get him to re-structure”. I’m curious to see how it unfolds too. Stupid off season…lol.
you are right… well if there is ant truth to chip hoping Mathis is on next years team, hopefully it works out.. but either way, we probably still need to draft two lineman
I know the intention isn’t to pick on Shady — but there’s some major nit picking going on. Shady as been elite. Not good, not very good. Elite. He was an absolute beast in that snow game. We’re going to point out 1 play when he was running in like 6″ of snow and only gained 20 yards? Maybe Shady was replaced at the goal line to try and keep him fresh? Just some thoughts…
If that was McCoy’s only issue, it would have been silly to trade him. I guess a couple of those situations are ones where we see Kelly more visibly annoyed, but I think all the negative runs irritated Kelly last year. A decent chunk of those were due to the bad OL early in the year (which also prevented the big gainers), but some of those are just his style. It’s still a risk to give up someone with McCoy’s talent. But we shall see what happens when Kelly has players more to his liking. Results better be there, I guess.
Shady was the leader in 0 to negative yrd runs from scrimmage in the NFL last year… I’d hardly call that nit picking or pointing out one play.
*last 2 years
so pointing out 1 play in an amazing season isn’t called nit picking? You definition of nit picking is different than mine I guess.
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I get it’s the usual “try and make a case for Shady to not be here” but it has nothing to do with his ability. Sooooooo, pointing out perceive “flaws” is nit picking…
Roto mentioned Devin Funches as a target in the draft. I really don’t follow college close enough to know anything about this guy. Any thoughts about him as a target?
big redzone target….. WR/TE Tweener, lacks polish… … Riley is pretty slow, and this is probably his last year here unless he agrees to a major paycut next year… So I am hoping we get one of the Raw Big Monster WRs…
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If a Monster WR was Polished, he wouldnt last to us, so any of the Big Boy WR prospects are going to have flaws and lack polish, but since we prioritize high character kids who live for this game and will work their ass off, and we place them in the hands of coachies that are really good “teachers”..im hoping we are able to get our hands on a WR thats in the 6’4-6’6 range, over 230lbs that our coaches believe in being able to develop into a quality weapon for us… Funchess, DGB, Waller, whatever.. Just get a Raw high upside Big Boy and start grooming him to replace Riley……
Thanks. I also like how Chip is being coy about WR on the roster. Maybe JM moves outside, maybe he doesn’t. Maybe Cooper plays inside — maybe he doesn’t. Maybe it’s Huff. LOL.
the problem is, i dont know how realistic he is for us, because we kind of painted ourself in a corner that we might have to look for a WR that we can hope will be ready to help us out in some capacity at least by the second half of the season.. I would rather go with a WR who is a little more polished in the first 3 rounds, and then go take a high upside developmental WR in rounds 4-5… So I dont know that we can go with a kid who lacks as much polish as he does as our 1st WR that we draft…… but you figure we need to fill Maclin AND Brad Smiths vacancies. so we can fill the Brad Smith vacancy with a raw high upside developmental WR, since we dont count on Brad Smith on offense anyway, and if the kid really develops and ends up being a great pick, he has the size to slide into Coopers role next year allowing us to dump his contract…
..
think Funchess would have to fall into like the 4th for him to be realistic for us, but who knows.. maybe they acquire an extra 3rd round pick, maybe the take an OL and two WRs with the first 3 picks….. but I assume in the top 100 there will be a lot of WR’;s we rate higher then this kid…… but I dont know any of these kids character, personality, intelligence, work ethic and I feel fortunate that we can count on our coach putting a heavy emphasis on this so, Ill be excited if the draft any of the WRs in the first 5 rounds who have the 6’4,6’5, 230lb plus size.. because odds are he will be smart, highly driven, and a kid chip can work his magic on..
He sucks
not really.. saying a top 100 prospect sucks is foolish,… there is plenty of talent in that monster frame of his, but it lacks polish and needs to be cultivated if he will ever be worth the pick you spend drafting him…
,,,
when we talk about UPSIDE KIDS, the kids who today lack polish and probably arent NFL ready, but kids that have the potential to grow into quality weapons, it becomes pretty impossible for us fans to really know which ones will be a good pick because Character and Work ethic are going to determine how much of their potential they realize…
..
Im not a funchess fan, I didnt think he was anything special this year, but what a player is today is a very small part of the equation..
,,
as someone who isnt a funchess fan, if I were to find out tomorrow that he is this years “Jordan Mathews” aka highly intelligent, crazy work ethic, extremely driven, obsessed with becoming great, I would draft him in a friggin heartbeat….. if his personality is more like Freddie Mitchell, I would remove him from my draft board completely
…
when we talk about the HIGH UPSIDE Kids its really impossible for us to really know which are the good picks, because we have no idea who comes with that crazy work ethic that we can bet on realizing his full potential. but fortunately we have a coach who really takes this part of the evaluation serious
Please. You’re making him sound like he’s Kelvin Benjamin or Mike Evans. He’s not even on that level as an athlete or as a football player. His supposed upside is diminished by how little actual skill he has.
lol… im not making him sound like anything. I have no clue what he will be, because i have no clue about his personality, drive, workethic…. but you are kidding yourself that top 100 picks dont all have potential to be quality NFL players…. how much of the potential they go on to realize is the question…… safer picks, are safe because the kids are more polished, thus having realized more of their potential at this point in time… But when a Raw kid is drafted in the same round, you can bet that Raw player will have a higher ceiling. problem is its not a guarantee that a player will ever reach his ceiling… thats when work ethic, passion for the game, football intelligence all factor into the equation…
…
when Talking about top 100 picks, typically the more a player sucks TODAY, the more Potential/higher Ceiling he has… if there is a raw kid who cant contribute right away, you can bet there is a reason he is being drafted in the top 3 rounds..
…
if Funchess was already polished, he wouldnt make it out of the top 25….
I don’t even…you’ve contradicted yourself so much that I don’t even know how to reply.
k…nice talking to you, “thanks for asking”..
not agreeing/disagreeing … roto has him going at 52.
Doesn’t really have a position. Not good enough inline to be a TE. Not athletic enough to be split out, he’s going to have to be a Flex TE/Slot WR type player, despite not being overly fast. To me best case is Marques Colston.
We already have a Marques Colston (JMatt) too.
wonder how different this fanbase would be if we won a superbowl?
From that point forward no one would want change. No matter how old, or how hurt, or how expensive the superbowl players got, they would forever be beloved and I would imagine most fans would want to keep that particular team together for as long as possible.
I think half the issue with the fan base is that we haven’t wont a SB
See Marcus smith donkey media!!
…
Coach Sean Payton said the Saints knew second-year CB Stanley Jean-Baptiste was “going to be a developmental player” when they drafted him.
Payton confirmed the Saints still “like” last year’s No. 58 overall pick. Jean-Baptiste started just 19 games at Nebraska and played just eight snaps as a deep-reserve rookie. He, Delvin Breaux, and Brian Dixon should compete for the No. 3 corner job behind starters Keenan Lewis and Brandon Browner.-roto
…
high picks are spent on players all the time who teams expect to get nothing out of year 1…
big difference between a late 2nd and a 1st round pick in expectations.
not that uncommon to be choosing from a pool of 2nd round grades when you are picking in the 25-30 range. unfortunately there isnt a perfect amount of first round graded prospects each year, enough for each team to get one…
…
I dont know about you, I expect a serious Baller in round 2. I expect at the very least starting caliber players in the top 100.. but that doesnt mean it matters whether they can play as rookies or not…. there are kids drafted in the top 10 every year who teams know they wont be ready to produce as rookies.. lol you think the Dolphins had delusions that Dion Jordan was going to be strong enough to play as a rookie when they spent the 12th pick and a 2nd round pick on him?… Problem for them is, when they spent those picks they expected that come years 2, 3,4 he would grow into a player worth that draft investment, and they are starting year 3 and still havent seen many flashes… the eagles KNEW they had 3 quality OLBs last year, and they KNEW next year they could lose Cole, BG or possibly both… you think its some coincidence that we drafted one of the edge rushers everyone knew fell in the category of needing to spend the year getting stronger, when we knew we were stacked at the position last year, but could lose two of our 3 players at that position this year.. lol
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for Marcus to become a bust, he needs to fall behind the rational developmental schedule… No one expected him to be able to play as a rookie. if you had a major hole at OLB next year and were desperate to fill it in the draft, marcus smith probably wasnt going to be the kid for you.. but he hasnt fallen behind schedule yet(atleast not significantly)…but by this year we should start to see more flashes, and by year 3 he should be balling for us… but even then there are special cases of guys who for one reason or another end up being late bloomers like BG.. but its to early to even put Marcus in that category…
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Hopefully come OTA’s reporters start asking some questions about Marcus strength compared to last year, because thats a big part of whats holding him back, again, pretty common for the position he plays… also wish they would ask chip about Wolffs rehab/recovery… still waiting for the Braniac media to stop trying to connect obvious dots and actually ask chip kelly about Meco’s achilles timeline. since he already had this injury and this rehab 5 years ago in his prime at the age of 26 and he wasnt very good his first year back. heck wish the reporters would wake up and ask when Meco will be ready to practice and if they are actually nutty enough to expect him to be ready to play in september 10 months removed from an injury at the age of 21? you know, maybe if they managed to get some info like that, they would stop writing the crap about Kendricks and Kiko not being here together, all because we kept Meco..
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a Quality draft pick in the top 100 is a kid who by years 3, and 4 will be a big contributor to your team/. The true measure of a draft pick is you want to spend picks on kids who are good enough to get a second contract from you, years 3,4 will determine that…eagles werent the only team that wanted Marcus in that range, and you can bet none of them thought he would produce as a rookie.,.. heck the nature of his friggin position is one where half the kids need to spend the rookie season getting strong enough to handle playing that position in the NFL, and all the time we see those players get taken in round 1.. some suck, some go on to be excellent picks
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but you already know all this, just doing your typical disagree for the sake of disagreeing shtick.. I already know that you know all this, so dont pretend to not,..
Steelers have done this for years with linebackers. It’s considered “wise” when they do it. We sit back and try to figure out who to blame for a supposed bust 1 year into his career.
lol so true
Ziggy Hood, Cam Hayward, Lawrence Timmons, Jarvis Jones.
BUSTS! ALL BUSTS, I TELL YOU!
as soon as I find a job again I will pay my tommy lawlor therapy fee.
thank you again.
wonder who the candidates are for this years “Pope Mathews award”, the kid who will walk into a meeting with Chip, extremely prepared, having broken down Eagles game film and completely Blows chip away in the interview?
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obvious answer is Grasu and Mariota but they dont count. they cant blow chip away when chip already knows that about them…
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any prospect make any noise at the senior bowl for his “exrtra preperation”(requesting film of opponents)? or seperating themselves from the pack with work habits/prep?
…
mariota
I think he said “Grasu and Mariota” don’t count….
Cody Fajardo
I get there’s a lot of “jockeying” with player visits etc etc…sometimes though, I do think, where’s there’s smoke there’s fire. A lot of off season talk with “other qb’s” that aren’t really starters. If I had to guess, if I was Barkley – I’d be nervous…
Barkley should be nervous.
tell me this doesnt sound like a kid chip would have some level of interest in…
“ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports free agent LB Brandon Copeland has drawn interest from 11 teams since last week’s Veteran Combine, and has four visits scheduled.
Schefter didn’t report which teams Copeland is visiting. A 2013 undrafted free agent out of Ivy League Penn, Copeland has had stints with the Titans and Ravens, but never appeared in a regular-season game. NFL.com’s Daniel Jeremiah reports Copeland showed “good speed” at last weekend’s even”t.-via roto
Why does he sound like one?!
Yeah, I didn’t see anything about “torn ACL” or “Oregon Duck”.
Nor is he white
Maybe because it says “good speed” in quotes? I wonder what the quotes mean…
http://youtu.be/bW8OkSJvhvE
We were one of the 11 teams interested in him according to previous reports. No word if we’re one of the 4 teams he has visits scheduled with.
not surprised.. chip is always looking for players in non-traditional places
Nevada quarterback Cody Fajardo
participated in a private workout with Eagles quarterback coach Ryan
Day prior to his Pro Day on Wednesday, a source told Bleeding Green
Nation.
Since CK wasn’t there i’m taking it as a grain of salt.
My sportacular app told me about that visit.. odd..
I buy it. He’s probably a UDFA, has some mobility. He would be here to beat out GJ, not for one of the roster spots.
Your Picks:
Round 2 Pick 4 (JAX): Jordan Phillips, DT, Oklahoma (B)
Round 2 Pick 20: Jake Fisher, OT, Oregon (A)
Round 2 Pick 29 (IND): Hroniss Grasu, C, Oregon (A)
Round 3 Pick 3 (JAX): Nelson Agholor, WR, Southern California (A)
Round 3 Pick 20: Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State (A)
Round 4 Pick 14: Jesse James, TE, Penn State (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Darren Waller, WR/TE, Georgia Tech (B-)
Round 5 Pick 20: Clayton Geathers, SS, UCF (B-)
Round 6 Pick 20: Erick Dargan, SS, Oregon (C-)
Round 7 Pick 20: Tony Washington, OLB, Oregon (F)
My ideal draft is move back 4-8 places in first for another 3rd if none of the top 12-15 prospects fall to 20. Take best player at that pick and with the 2nd.
2x 3rd rounders go back to back WR – think there are some really good prospects to be had at that point, and may well be BPA who can contribute this year.
Rest of draft spend picks on high upside guys and hope to find 1-2 starters in 2-3 years time.
yeah i traded back but so many players i liked available that i traded back twice… I figure, once you trade back once and get passed #25, there almost always another opportunity to trade back again, out of round 1 landing top 8 of round 2, because some team wants to jump the teams ahead of them at the beginning of round 2 to get their QB, I assume this year that will be Hundley. Some team at the beginning of round 2, will jump back into round 1 and snatch Hundley up, justify it by the fact they get a 5th year option on him by taking him in round 1… allegedly we had this option last year with the Vikings, but chose not to trade back twice because we think we would have lost Marcus….
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but if we trade back once this year, good chance there will be an opportunity to trade back twice, out of round 1 completely which means we get two quality extra picks, and we make our pick at the beginning of round 2, chip can have his boy Fisher, and we managed to probably get two extra 3rd, or an extra 3rd and a late 2nd…for trading back twice. we dont make our first pick til round 2, so we end up with three 2’s, two 3’s, one 4th, two 5ths… and chip can re-do his offense.. dumped the first 3 picks into the trenches and were still able to get a bunch of weapons…some polished to play as rookies like Agoholar, others developmental like Waller
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/3/27/8299821/demeco-ryans-injury-update-eagles-linebacker-training-camp-2015
Musafa says he will be ready for camp and the rehab is going really well.
I hope his pay cut will be ready for camp.
he is going to be ready to play 10 months after his injury at the age of 31, when he sucked coming off the injury at 26 til like year 2? that must be some impressive sports science. sure hope he is right..at his age, i would prefer not rushing back, give him the best chance of putting this behind him.. but im no sport scientist so hopefully he is ready to run around like a mad man at camp…
There are different degrees of tears, right? Maybe when he was younger it was a complete tear all the way across and this one was just partial.
I would guess the more likely reason is that, at age 26, he saw a job waiting for him to get healthy. At age 31, with two talented youngsters on the roster, he doesn’t have the luxury of being careful.
To be honest I’m surprised he will be ready by camp considering he tore it half way through the season. In no way do I expect him to be anywhere close to 100% by even the start of the season. When he tore it before it took him about a year and a half to really get back to full strength. Wish him the best, but this is why I think the Kendricks trade rumors are just bull.
yeah it sounds crazy to me too
I’m calling bs.
He had surgery in November.
Camp opens mid July.
That’s like 8.5 months, if he was 24 maybe, but at his age? That seems really aggressive.
Sports science at its finest!
Someone please explain why all the concern over Bradford and Ryans cap number this year. Is it preventing the Eagles from signing anyone at the moment that they WANT? Both of these numbers, no matter how inflated, will not hurt the organization next year. Bradford either gets a new deal reflective of a QB who had a good season with no historical legacy of similar deals (ie Foles in 2016) or he gets cut. Ryans either comes back and makes a difference and gets restructured or is cut. Each year has a new starting point as evidenced with all the moves this year.
Fans worry about the cap because they believe it is preventing the team from making moves that they want the team to make as opposed to realizing that the team is still flexible enough to make the moves that the Coach/team thinks is best for their system.
negadelphia at its finest…. if we didnt sign Maxwell, fans would be ripping this team for being cheap and not adding a top CB. we sign the top CB and they complain at the price that it took to get him to sign with us….
Well regarding ryans, if we keep kendricks and kiko it seems that he will be overpaid. We do need the cap to re sign cox and ced.
Titans and Raiders need a pass rusher.
come on don’t tell me we could part ways with fletch
No comment.
you’re killing me
Keeping Cox and Ced are next years Cap, not this year so Ryans salary in 2015 has no influence. Any player is moveable, but I think he is messing with ya!
Don’t think OD’s messing, he’s been on this since FA started. Got a feeling something is going to happen, just like it did with Jimmy’s deduction on Djax. OD’s got some good inside info, I’d bet on it. No one on the team is safe.
If we have to thrown in MSIII into the MM deal, so be it.
How dare you point out the ONLY 1st round draft pick in Eagles history that neither the GM(at the time) or the coach will take responsibility for drafting him…lmao…
Oh dear. You’re saying Cox for Mariota? That’s madness. First true defensive star we’ve drafted in years, and we trade him? Not sure how I feel about that.
ok, for the sake of argument — Cox and how many draft picks we talking?
Cox doesn’t need to be resigned until 2015.
Love that german bum in your profile pic!
I think you are letting bias get the best of you. I bet that Union Jack could get you feeling cheeky. And I wouldn’t expect you to turn down a trip down under. But mostly, I bet you’do be very happy in the US of A.
Pure. Awesomeness. Well played, sir!
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate. – Sun Tzu
Speaking philosophically of course
Don’t doubt that Chip draws from Sun Tzu quite a bit.
There are 32 teams in the NFL. Can you name one team who’s Owner, GM, and HC is honest and transparent in all their dealings with the media and fans?
Can you cite one company in the Fortune 100 who’s executive leadership is honest and transparent in all their dealings with their employees, customers, and shareholders?
For someone who’s made football his life’s passion, I think Chip understands communicating with and through the media is just another facet of the game.
Chip 500, Media 10
Maybe Chip drives a fiat cinquecento?!
Hate to say it, but my first thought was at Chip’s current weight I don’t know that he’d fit behind the wheel!
Downhill runner vs McCoy = QB’s holding ball to long vs. Getting it out in under 3 seconds…. Keeping this in mind whe you think of McCoy you can liken it to a QB holding onto the ball for more than 3 seconds…. meaning you have the rest of your players on that field ad-libbing to their duties in the regular 3 second play (i.e. linemen running around more and taking longer to get back to the line/getting tired)…. because of this play extension i think the ultimate goal of creating mass dysfunction on the defensive side suffers due to RB/QB holding onto the ball to long…. i think the ultimate goal is plays of 3.5 seconds or under EVERY PLAY…. you want defenses to stop reacting and start thinking in quick intervals to really get them out of sync. McCoy for a RB was stellar at 5+ second plays, Foles just didn’t get it out quick enough and trust his quick/hot reads and often double clutched…… Opinions?
….anyone on here work in cognitive sciences? What kind of information can you process in 3.5 seconds vs 5 seconds?
i can process “four mississippi” and “five mississippi”
thats Chips timing base lol…. the next play better be going by 4 Mississippi lol
in 3.5 seconds you can find an open guy, but in 5 seconds you can back peddle 10 extra yards first.
i’m kidding I love nick foles.
what you said PLUS 2nd and 3rd and longs from the dancing
Yeah you want to dictate pace to the defense and you can’t do that when your avg play can differ by almost 50% of what timing you really want
Athletes = Creatures of habit/reaction NOT thought.
You want the defense to react not to think. Bradford has one of the best play action fakes in the business. Make the D react to the run quicker then play action is more effective. A quick hitting RB forces a D to react quicker. Chip wants improved play speed, repetitive accuracy, and longer drives to rest the D. As Jernst mentions near the bottom, also the goal is reduced player performance variance.
Correction. On defense you usually have 1 or 2 guys “QB’ing” the defense and trying to “think/diagnose” for the other 9-10 guys. Thus if you can also interrupt that communication between “the brain” & “it’s extremities” then you can wreak even more havoc because you got the brain thinking about the last play and the “extremities” just flailing at the current situation. Over-analyzing, but i think Chip wants to physically, mentally and soulfully wear out the defense.
….the quick hitter play-action is just schematic football 101 but effective none the less…. i think our focus goes beyond that.
yeah, I’m not sure that’s a correction — it’s common sense(or human nature?) .. either one, I’ll stick with OD comments…
Just to play devils advocate… as I like to do. Wouldn’t going off script get a defense out of sync more? Wouldn’t at exactly the same speed every play help them get into a rhythm? Wouldn’t it work the same for both sides?
I think it is more a desire to have everything run as they want it to be. Control every detail of every play.
…..going off script would be play-action. please see comments about play action. Any other questions about play action?
One interesting throwback was in one of CK’s first PCs as eagles HC, he said the most important quality for a QB was repetitive accuracy. That was his favorite talent (other than durability, which… lol).
I think that was the thinking behind Bradford.
(other than durability, which… lol), yup.
Foles was a bit lacking in that department. Also interesting to read on PFT he may be a stop gap in St.L. Chip’s breakfast quote that they threw players into that deal at the last minutes doesn’t do much to change it.
Sort of surprised people around the league think nick is a** — but they watch the tape maybe they saw the same think CK did.
PFT is useless. They steal opinions or tweets from other media sources.
or are tthey super smart
Based do on Jimmy’s visual, the theme is clear. This year, we are favoring formerly blue players. I am not yet sure if that means drafting players who played in blue states, or players who wore blue. As long as it doesn’t mean players who blew.
Furthering the concept that chip kelly prefers crips over bloods.
DJax wasn’t released for #gangties, he was just iassociated with the wrong gang.
Wrong gang gonna get u CUT son!
nice quotes from players on phillymag.
kelce:
“I’ll put it this way. It’s kind of been made out in the media where people think Chip’s shooting from the hip or doing things nonchalant. I think that there’s a clear direction, a clear vision from this front office and mainly from Chip where he wants this organization to be and where he wants each player at each position to be. I think that everything is calculated. I think that everything happens for a reason. So I’m still fully on board. And I think that we’re gonna have an outstanding team next year.”
That second sentence, covers about 90% of the fan base thoughts…
Anyone seen Adrian Amos play extensively? If so, can you speak to his playing ability.
Big body at almost 220 lbs. The only game was Ohio state and Penn state got mauled. Amos didn’t really get off blocks. I saw him get destroyed by a WR which is not good. He didn’t make any stand out plays whatsoever. Once again it’s only one game against Ohio ststate but that’s what I got.
I haven’t done the tapework myself but the draftniks i follow feel that he’s good in zone, good in man, an ok tackler, but he wouldn’t pull the trigger to attack the run game or underneath routes. They feel it’s more a matter of playing next to either walk-ons or a true freshman for the whole season, so he had to be the disciplined one, as well as it being his first year at S. I’ll take the guy who understand “deeper than the deepest”, especially if he’s supposed to be a film junkie and highly cerebral guy like Amos, and try to get him to be a bit more aggressive. I’d much rather have that than a Calvin Pryor trying to missle tackle everyone and flying up out of control.
Exactly, like I said, I couldn’t see how he was in man or zone because they didn’t pass a lot and also because I am terrible at evaluating such things. You can see the timidness when attacking downhill but I feel as though that is correctable. Has a big boy body which could potentially lay some lumber.
chip revealed that not only did he think ODB was the best WR, he thought he was the best player in the entire draft…..
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not surprising since Chip seems to have different thoughts on “draft value” that dont really mesh with the Norm… No clue how our big board is going to work? we have alot of traditional scouts that howie brought in, yet the decision maker is an outside the box thinker who is going to view some players very different from the Norm…. Teams didnt even have ODB in the top 10, yet our leader has him as the #1 prospect? doubt our scouts had such an alternative opinion on the draft… what would have happened if we had the #1 pick and chip insist on ODB over Clowney? LOL chip is probably run out of philly the same night…… sounds crazy until you see ODB and he very well might be the best player in last years draft…so whats this going to lead to? Chip valuing players drastically different then the value the media places on these guys being brainwashed in our heads for months? Fans left scratching their heads because it will look like chip reaches? hopefully we trust chips enough to give his guys a chance to prove that they are better then how mel kiper conditioned us to value these kids….
..
also liked hearing him shut sal pal down for his silly hypotheticals. for some reason reporters keep asking him about trading for MM as if any coach has ever divulged his draft targets to the public beforehand, the media kept asking about trading for MM in all different scenario’s. finally chip agreed to play along with Sal, and asked him what are we paying in his hypothertical to trade up? Sal said 2 first round picks. chip asked to trade how high up? Sal pal said trade up to like #6.. chip immediately shut that down with a THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN citing how much the skins had to pay to move up for RG3, and chip sounded pissed enough to be actually possibly have been telling the truth, and the way he scoffed at it, he made it sound like the compensation that is being asked for trading up in the top 6 is really absurd and that its too steep to even consider.
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then Chip brought up a interesting point asking the media, why no one ever broke jim harbaughs balls about trading up for Andrew Luck?
I don’t know, no one really goes BPA, so even if you had him as the best player do you pick him? Surely they had someone ranked better than MSII at that spot but there’s other factors.
I think it comes down to a blending of value and scheme. And not just value today, but years down the road. Look at MS2 vs Jordan Matthews. If the reports are true, the team had a 1st round grade on both but Chip wanted Matthews in the first. Howie ended being right that he would be there in 2nd so on draft night that was great value. But 3 years from now if Matthews trajectory continues upward, we don’t have the flexibility of the 5th year option. So maybe Chip was looking at value down the road as opposed to value on a Thursday night in April. I like the idea of BPA in the NBA but in the NFL where winning it all rarely comes down to the talent of one guy, unless he’s a QB, I say go get your guy who can impact your team and who offers the most value over the long haul.
“Howie ended being right that he would be there in 2nd so on draft night that was great value”
We jumped to get him and used the 3rd we received moving back. Not great value, almost like what’s the point.
Not exactly. Got a 3rd to move down 4 spots and then used a 4th to move up 12 spots in the 2nd to land Matthews.
I agree. But if Chip would have taken him in the first, he would have been pounded by the same pundits who acted like they understood the MS2 pick because where he was picked was closer to where they had him ranked on their board and we had a need at OLB. I just think Chip’s board will look different and we might be shocked on how he evaluates talent. But I think his evaluation of Matthews was spot on based on what he showed on the field.
No we used our 4th. We then turned our third from Cleveland to become the first pick of round 4 and 5 (Watkins and Hart).
I hate Sal Pal now.
My mom’s boyfriend saw him once in the morning getting coffee or something, simply said hi, and Sal bitched him out about leave him alone don’t just approach him and try to talk to him, he gets it all the time and can’t stand it, etc.
tl;dr Sal Pal is a dick.
lol he is a clown anyway… i dont think chip likes him..
..
Les got chippy with Chip, and Chip laughed at him kind of for getting mad. i got a kick out of it.. Les asked a question with a big word, and chip interupted “wow les is that an SAT word?” clearly choking around, and Les answered all serious “You know what that means” LOL kind of funny to hear the crusty old clown get snippy…
we should’ve traded up for ODB, we would be killing it with him. why did we let him go to anyone else if chip thought he was the best in the draft.
also shows that he was right!
in hindsight.
sure its 20/20
i dont know that he would be willing to trade what it took to move up and get him… figure the saints paid what a 3rd for moving up for Cooks.. what do you have to give up to get to 12?
be fascinated to get to collect every teams draft board after the draft and do a statistical comparison of how different each team graded and valued each of the top 50 picks… wonder how big of a discrepency we would see with some of the more no brainer top guys..
i’d give up whatever
That’s a bit of hindsight bias. If ODB was a bust, do you think he’d be out in front of the cameras saying the same thing?
so in the mornings you write about how no one should believe anything Chip says, then in the afternoons you write about your analysis of what Chip says as if it’s God’s words on the tablets brought down from the mountain.
Can you reconcile your two approaches? I really want to know.
Didn’t we determine that Chip lies? His comments are more directed at Howie. IF Chip really, really wanted ODB – well, shame on him for not making it happen…
lol… yeah chip lies. nothing he will ever say is ever going to be true right?… lets stop watching his interviews.. heck might as well stop reporting what he says to fans while we are at it, right?
He doesn’t speak without intent… So I’m not sure it’s considered lying… Chip isn’t saying he ranked him number 1 over all just to spew words.. There’s intent… Whether or not it’s true where Chip ranked him.. Chip has a purpose for saying it. If Chip said it’s bad practice to show other teams how HE ranks players (was he being truthful?) Why would he tip his hat on his draft board?… Doesn’t make sense for him to come out and say it unless it had purpose….
starting to think we really do plan on bringing Mathis back for the year which im sure would make us all feel a little better. the way chip came off is that basically this is the same exact thing as last year.. mathis wants a new contract? then go find someone that will trade for you and give you a new deal..cant find one? then I’ll see you at OTA’s…. Chip ALSO was quick to emphatically answer “NONE” when asked if mathis has been able to find any trade offers…
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so im hoping we dont have to go into this draft with two starting holes on the OL… figure if this was really about a cap dump for us, we would have had no problem just axing mathis when we did herremans, Cole, Mac, shady, Foles…Its not as if they sound like they think anyone will trade anything for him..so if it was really about the cap dump, he would probably be cut by now.. doubt we have any expectations of anyone giving up anything for him.. so im starting to strongly think that he will be back for the year…. unfortunately he will be 34, and Barbre is no spring chicken so we still need to draft two OL, but its a welcome luxury to draft players that you dont need to count on being able to play day 1…
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Im sure we all feel much more comfortable about our run game knowing Mathis will be back….
“starting to think we really do plan on bringing Mathis back for the year which im sure would make us all feel a little better.”
The mathis stuff was all Rosenhaus,
if thats true, which great chance that it is, you would think that at some point our media would learn to not let him use them and help him put stuff like this out to the fans if it probably isnt true
they say whatever gets the most clicks.
Clicks or dicks?!
Clicks for DiCKs!
Both years, the Mathis thing has originated with national media, not local media. Agents like Rosenhaus typically only deal with the national guys, can’t be bothered with the riff ram.
be so hype to see DeMarco run behind JP, Mathis and Kelce… I want to play the seahawks so bad for talking all that trash. they beat our OL at like half strength. Really want to see that Defensive front of the seahawks again before JP retires and we lose Mathis.. hopefully we run into them in the playoffs…
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its a joke that idiots run their mouth and call chips team soft… sure if you want to judge it with Molk, Tobin and Garner making their first, 2nd and 3rd NFL starts… but last time we were healthy we were the top rushing offense in the NFL, and run defense might be the strength of our team…. you measure toughness by the run game. Tough teams can run the ball, and shut down the run, so where does a clowmn like Heath come off saying we lack toughness? our WR might suck, but the one thing he will do is smash you in the run game(coop).. Celek soft? dudes one of the toughest TE’s in the game.. JP soft? mathis soft? Lane was the best RT in the NFL last year, go tell him he is soft… I just ask for a healthy year. give me that, and ill live with the results
I wouldn’t get worked up about what idiots like Heath Evans say. I really think the only reason he is employed as an “analyst” is to make the other guys look smart in comparison.
he is a court jester..dont care about that fool…
..,
doesnt sit well with me the niners and seahawks especially running their mouth on our field after the game… give anything to play that entire division, Arians is always on my shit list, but id rather avoid the rams. those sick bastards added more to their DL. mess around and get our QB hurt playing against teams like the Rams and Texans… two teams i want to avoid… they arent good enough teams to where it really matters that you beat them, but they are dangerous, especially in a kill your QB sort of way… kind of like a big name ranked fighter that doesnt want to fight a no name monster. too tough of a fight, not enough reward for fighting a no name..
Mosher was the one that started the “he will be cut if not traded” talk.
True. Both years the initial reports that Mathis was on the trade block came from one of the national guys.
I really hope Evan will be back.
Another thing that drives me crazy is when that muppet looking Mosher asks chip some ridiculous ish life “so how do you get along with Howie?” Knowing damn well that they don’t like each other and chip just won a power struggle, what a drama seeking clown. What’s chip supposed to say? “I hate that little weasel”?? If you decode chip, when you ask him about someone he doesn’t like but he wants to be diplomatic chip hits you with the one word “Good” which in chip talk means I “despise that hack”.. It’s like when they try to get chip to speak bad about shady… a) you should understand that any coach with class won’t rip a former coworker or player publically so you probably should waste one of your few questions on tabloid quality crap…. Everyone in the city knows chip and Howie went to war and you have the audacity to ask fhe man about Howie? Is he supposed to gloat about how he buried “cap boy” in a janitor closet on the other side of novacare? It’s classless crap, Mosher should have his novacare credentials revoked for a month
Mosher is a hack.
That is what beat writers get paid to ask because that is what the less hard core fans want to know
they get paid to waste what little access they get asking questions they have no shot at getting answered? really? they get paid to provide fans with intel, they arent getting info by wasting questions that have no shot of being answered..,. there you go disagreeing for the sake of it…LOL
Im disagreeing for the sake of it. Fact is, beat writers get paid to ask those questions, no matter if we like it or not. Its same with their game recaps, they gets paid to write generic recap for the common sports follower.
Beat writers are not for you and me, who follow the Eagles 24/7, but for the common sports follower who do not spend several hours each day on a niche blog like this. Remember, most of the beat writers still write for daily newspapers.
DM, 1500 yards rushing, over/under?!
Under.
Total yards from scrimmage?
Still gotta go with under. You gotta figure that if somebody is going to get the ball thrown to them out of the backfield, it’s going to be Sproles. That’s going to limit Murray’s chances.
Full disclosure: I lose prop bets damn near every time.
1200 rushing, 150 receiving, 8 TD.
I’m figuring about 250 carries and 20-25 receptions. Which when multiplied by career per attempt averages gives you those numbers.
I like. Though 120 yards receiving seems a bit low to me. We will see though.
I mean he averages 7 yards a catch. I just don’t see him getting more than 25 catches. Thats still like a catch and a half a game. Other than a wheel route or screen game I don’t think he’s going to be a big target. Shady had 28-155 last year. Plus on obvious passing downs I’d rather see Sproles or Huff lined up in the backfield as they offer a better chance of beating an LB or splitting a gap in the zone and picking up a big chunk of yardage.
Not to mention, Mathews will be taking away some carries…
Omar Kelly
@OmarKelly
1h
1 hour ago
Word on the street is Miami has talked to a number of teams about a number
of players. They like a Eagles CB or S. I just don’t know who.
That’s got to be Boykin. I don’t see any of our safeties being coveted and they already had Carroll. I suppose it’s possible they want him back. Despite Kelly’s recent proclamation that Boykin will compete outside, we all know he prefers bigger CBs. Miami seems to like smaller, quicker guys. See Brent Grimes.
Really curious to see what we could even get out of Boykin but at this point he seems like a tradable asset for a number of reasons. As you stated, Kelly likes bigger cbs, we have number of cbs who can play the slot now and Boykin wasn’t consistent by falling off a bit last year. Can we get a fifth? Dare I say 4th?
You’re being such a Negladelphian right now. They obviously want Roc Carmichael.
If Chip manages to trade them a player on arizonas roster I will be thoroughly impressed.
That’s so easy. Three way trade. We send Barkley and a 4th for John Brown/Roc and then deal Roc for uhh a cuban sandwich and Dion Jordan I guess?
Idk about that. They have Grimes, but the next three guys on the depth chart are Will Davis, Jamar Taylor and Walt Aikens who are more press corners.
If they put Billy Turner on the table though, I’m making that trade happen.
I don’t think they would. He’s slated to start at RG for them. Their other starter last year Cortland Finnegan who is also smaller.
If they are trading for Boykin it would be to make him a starter, I mean I’d kick back a 4th or 5th w/ Boykin, but if they aren’t going to offer us anything worthwhile just keep him and take the comp pick.
Is this guy in the mafia?
Everyone in the streets knows the name of Omar.
Dion Jordan? Geagle where you at?
Probably sleeping. And so are his sources…
not what I heard… heard we could have dion by now if we really wanted him, as in miami would be willing to dump him
Wouldn’t it be ironic – after all that happenings in this offseason – if the Eagles trade away Jenkins for a 5th rounder?!
boykin, jaylen…. long shot curry….
Last time I checked Curry is not a DB.
wont be nolan
wont be byron
wont be walter
wont be jenkins
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not even neccessarily a CB or S…
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if Miami had cap space, i wonder if they would have tried to go after shady
It’s been at least like a year since people started mocking Landon Collins to us. Make it stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvcvocqc3B0
Thanks for the video. One thing you notice…is that he’s really freaking good.
lol yup yup… and well rounded.. Tough and gritty enough to be a beast on Goal line… crazy sideline to sideline speed, and very good in coverage(great instincts), he can blitz too.. to have him and Kendricks in coverage this year will be amazing