A Scary Thought
Posted: April 12th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 363 Comments »Rumors, rumors, rumors. This is the time of year for them.
Sheil Kapadia wrote a piece on some info Ron Jaworski passed along on Friday. Here’s some of what Jaws had to say.
On Friday, Ron Jaworski was a guest on CSN’s Philly Sports Talk and said he is picking up buzz that Marcus Mariota is going to be Tampa’s selection.
“The latest I’m hearing now from my sources around the league, who are pretty wired in, is that he’s going to go number one now to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,” said Jaworski.
“Mariota’s stock, remember it was quiet for a while? And there’s a reason for that. There’s a lull every year until about 30 days before the draft. Now the coaches get involved. Prior to that, it’s the scouts, it’s the roadies that are filling out the paper work. Now the coaches get involved. Now team owners get involved. Now general managers get involved. So you’re starting to see, in my opinion, Winston’s stock starting to slide a little bit and Mariota’s stock starting to go up a little bit.”
First, we have no idea if any of this is true. I don’t doubt Jaws is hearing things, but this is the time of year when teams love to spread mis-information to try and keep everyone confused as to what they are really thinking and what is going to happen.
If this is true, the thought of Mariota going 1st overall is interesting, mainly because it would involve Winston sliding. And where would he go?
The same teams in the Top 10 (or so) that like Mariota could have interest in Winston, but not necessarily. Winston has serious baggage. The Browns have been reported as a team that likes Mariota. After dealing with Johnny Manziel’s immaturity this year, I don’t know that they would want anything to do with Winston.
My personal nightmare is Winston coming to the Eagles. I think there is very little chance of that happening because I think someone will take him prior to 20 and I question whether Chip would want him. But if things went wrong and the Eagles did take Winston…I’d be very uncomfortable.
I can’t stand him.
The rape allegation bothers me tremendously. If you somehow move beyond that, his pattern of small, stupid incidents goes beyond what his coach Jimbo Fisher tried to paint as typical college kid behavior. Winston knew the spotlight was on him and he didn’t care. He did dumb thing after dumb thing, all with a big smile on his face.
Ugh. I want no part of that guy.
There is no question that he’s got the talent to be a star QB, but his lack of maturity should be a gigantic red flag for all 32 teams.
If the Eagles drafted Winston…I’m just not sure how I’d handle that. I just can’t see any scenario where I’m cheering for him on the field. Let’s hope he goes 1, 2, 5, 6, 10 or anywhere before 20 so I don’t have to face that dilemma.
Not all of you will agree with my feelings on Winston. Let me know what you think about him.
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More from Jaws on the QB situation.
“I’ll give you a little bit of information on how much Chip Kelly loves Marcus Mariota,” said Jaworski. “This is the time of year when everyone talks, and I talk to general managers, I’ve talked to player personnel directors, and I’ve heard it from a couple or three people that have had conversations with Chip Kelly, and Chip Kelly said, ‘Marcus Mariota will win multiple Super Bowls in the National Football League.’
“Now, he didn’t say it was going to be in Philadelphia (laughs), but that’s how much he loves this guy, and a lot of people feel the same way, that Marcus Mariota is that good that you can win multiple Super Bowls with him as your quarterback.”
That’s high praise from Chip. He’s doing the right thing by supporting his former player, but he’s not helping the chances of Mariota becoming an Eagle.
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Here’s a bit of good news. The Eagles are talking to DE Cedric Thornton about a long term deal. BGN has the details here.
Thornton is a good LDE. He is an outstanding run defender. He still needs work on his pass rushing skills. It would be great if the Eagles could lock up him, Fletcher Cox and Bennie Logan long term. That is a good D-line and they work well together.
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Eagles better re-sign Cox and Kendricks….I like Thornton too, but put a higher priority on the first two and I hope Chip understands their value to the defense. If they trade Cox or Kendricks, Chip better be right on the return being better or IMO it exposes him as a GM and talent evaluator.
I want nothing to do with Winston either, agree, Tommy, that his off-field issues scare me and should scare any GM…in college these guys are highly enabled and covered for regarding bad behavior. No one can say with a straight face that Manziel, for example, did not need to go to rehab before his rookie year in the NFL and yet he was never held accountable until he reached the NFL and unfortunately had already gotten his money…
NFL really needs to develop a minor league system and get out of the scam that is college football (and major sports in general)….there would be two possible avenues, you either got to college, earn a degree (a real degree with real classes that will give you a real education) and play football OR you go into the NFL draft and go into a team’s minor league system to develop your game in hopes of earning the right to make it to the NFL…
Kids like Winston and Manziel should not be in college…they are not there to learn anything other than enough football to get drafted high by an NFL team…it is a sham that finally needs to end IMO. Plus, in the minor league system, they will be held accountable for their actions or cut by the team…then they can try to survive in the real world instead of the coddled one they are used to…
The ncaa is the minor league for the NFL. I don’t see them creating a real one anytime soon since it’ll cost them money when the ncaa system doesn’t (I think).
I agree they probably will not, but think the NFL should have the foresight and intelligence to implement one and tell the NCAA to go fly….the NFL has a strong direct vested interest in the people entering the league being not only qualified football players, but also good character people…it is not only good policy and would help the quality of the game on the field improve, but great PR for a sport that has for too many years allowed itself to be dragged through the mud by scandals, arrests and other negative incidents. It would be a very strong statement that the NFL is going to raise their standards and demand accountability, not only for the players, but the teams as well. If they truly care and want to have a positive impact on society and be a league worth admiring, that is….if money truly is the be all end all, that is sad and is worth mocking IMO.
not worried about Cox. Especially if Mohammed Wilkerson signs an extension with only 30mil in guarantees..
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Not worried about Kendricks for THIS year either… But I worry that if he doesnt stay healthy this year and misses time for his 3rd year in a row, chip will let him walk in free agency…… Think Its crucial to Mykals Eagle future for him to stay healthy and play all 16 games this year.
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Picks 1 and 2 don’t have any reason to lie or misinform.
Unless they’re looking to trade back.
True. Doesn’t seem the case though. Bucs really need a franchise QB, whether it is MM or they think Winston may be it. I can see that with Tenn. though because there are conflicting reports that they like Mettinburg (spell check), and then there is the Rivers trade rumors with them.
Bradford?
That is true.
they lie to try and get teams to trade up…. so far all the talk is that Winston goes to the Bucs, which is why all the rumors we hear are all about what teams will offer the Titans to move up for Mariota… by leaking that Mariota is being looked at by the Bucs, it puts the Bucs name on the map for trade back options… If you want Mariota bad enough to trade for him to the Titans, you now will be forced to trade up with the Bucs instead. Unless you are willing to risk losing your golden boy QB, bluffing the Bucs, it forces teams to disregard the Titans, and start making their trade up offers to Tampa
Very good points.
I appreciate your thoughts on Winton, Tommy. It echoes my feelings on Vick, actually. Even after he did time (for operating an interstate gambling ring -not for the truly horrible things he did) and expressed remorse I could never cheer for him.
Players like these turn what is supposed to a fun piece of entertainment into a moral dilemma.
completely agree huge!!
I personally liked VIck felt he was sincere and respected his comeback efforts.
but cant even watch sanches on the field. and watching Chip dump our leading players its very hard to root for chip. and chip doesn’t care a dman about the players on the team ..if he is right then he knows how fickle the masses will be an we root ..if he is wrong he is paid out in full and lands elsewhere .
Disagree.
Vick did his time. Ultimate symbol of redemption and hard work to achieve within system. Vick also paid back debts he didn’t have to, that were thrown out in bankruptcy.
Sure he “did his time” for operating an interstate gambling ring -that doesn’t mean I have to cheer for him. I don’t doubt that doing hard time on hell’s half acre made him re-consider his piece-of-shit lifestyle. I would have just preferred he find his “redemption” in the CFL or getting peoples’ names wrong at Starbucks.
I won’t speak to his handling of bankruptcy procedings, since that’s as much a signal of what a horrible person he was as anything.
Again, I’m not saying other people can’t think he’s a hero or whatever -just that it was hard for me to cheer for his success even in Eagles green.
One thing in particular bugged me about Winston this year and it’s something that I also noticed with Manziel. At the start of his last season Manziel had to sit out half a game because of NCAA violations. After coming into the game he did his usual money hand gestures. You could see that this infuriated Coach Sumlin who berated him as he came off the field. Manziel walked right past him with that annoying smug grin on his face. He thought he was bigger than his coach. Right then I thought that he wouldn’t cut it in the pros. No respect.
After Winston was banned for the Clemson game Coach Fisher told him to keep a low profile, even to stay away, to avoid the furore than he’d cause and the team could concentrate on the game. What did he do? Turned up on the sidelines in his jersey. His coach was apoplectic with him and he too laughed it off.
I don’t like the other stories surrounding him but to me that’s the deal breaker. That’s not a team player. That shows he’s selfish and egotistical. That might work at wideout but not at quarterback. I want no part of him. He may have the skills but doesn’t have the mentality to lead a team in the NFL.
Yeah I think he is going to set a team back years and kill a fan bases hopes and dreams. I hope it doesn’t happen, I wish all prospects the best, but we have seen situations like this before.
I support many of the comments below on Winston. He’s immature and smug to a fault. With an even moderate pass rush, he can panic in the pocket, and throw the ball up for grabs. He can be, at times, an INT machine.
But the off field issues are killer. The crab legs fiasco was actually a snafu; he had been given the nod to take the legs in the past but the regular employee was sick. The substitute blew the whistle on him. Still, the rape allegations are in all likelihood the tip of the iceberg. No chance Chip would want someone like Winston.
And I do suspect a trade-back ploy by the Bucs, given recent conversations.
It could be. If the Bucs have decided they don’t want either of these QBs, they could be posturing to trade the pick.
Can I ask then, what would they do at QB? Unless the implication is they would want Bradford. None of the other QBs in this draft would seem to be sufficient & they don’t seem to have any use for Glennon.
Jason Cole of Bleacher Report and previously Yahoo Sports reported around the time of the combine that some of the teams at the top of the draft prefer Bradford to Winston and Mariota.
lol bleacher report? dont make me throw up
Barkley.
Ohhh God… after months of daily nonsense about Mariota, now winston? hurry up and get this draft over with. This time of year is unbearable. 95% of what we talk about every single day will prove to have nothing to do with the eagles…
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I suffered thru all the absurd Mariota nonsense, the last thing I need is for winstons name to be added to the daily eagle nonsense..
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Remove the human from the equation and I wouldnt even have to think about taking winston. But his baggage is the LAST thing this city/fanbase needs..with our media and rabid fanbase bringing that kid into the eagles nest is a time bomb…. Thankfully we arent a QB desperate Team picking in the top 5 of the draft because I would hate to have to make the decision regarding him.. I like the Talent, even tho I think its slightly over rated(but I think Mariota is also over rated), I give his skill set decent odds of being able to transition to succeeding against NFL defense, but having Jameis WInston as the face of our Franchise would be a potential Disaster…..
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Very curious to see who ends up drafting this kid…
I can’t root for Winston either. Chip put in a good word for his QBing but he doesn’t necessarily fit his offense more than Bradford or the Spring 2016 Free Agents. if Chip can show that he enhances QBs performances, with emphasis on the run and good receiver matchups, than he has a better shot of re-signing Bradford or getting Russell Wilson or Cam Newton in the event they hit the market.
The Titans coaches and GM gathered at Winston’s pro day, Winston is visiting the Jets, the Bears could want him, the Texans could want him, the Chargers could even want him, maybe even the Giants. I think it’s unlikely he falls to 20.
forget Wilson, no chance seattle ever lets him get away…. Id rather try to get Phillip Rivers then Cam Newton.
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I hate to say this, it makes my stomach sick to even say this, but I wouldnt mind seeing Eli Manning in a chip offense. Smart, confident, strong arm QB, I think he could really blow up in chips system which is probably easier on the QB then any offense he ran under Coughlin..
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I hate ELi, but he is a smart QB who can handle option route freedom. He can get to the Line of scrimmage, quickily count the defenders and know what to check into to burn the defense, snap the ball, get it out quick in stride for some YAC yards
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love to get like 4 years out of Eli or Rivers in this offense
Eli? We’ve had enough turnovers the past couple of years. Seriously, Eli Manning must be the most overrated QB in NFL history. He got hot at the right time in the playoffs and led his team to Super Bowl wins. Good for him. That shouldn’t save his reputations from multiple horrific seasons where he’s turning over the ball constantly. He’s the opposite of his brother: awful during the regular season, shines during the playoffs. Really, the team that should be exploring trading up for Mariota is the Giants. Eli Manning’s contract is almost up. They’d be fools to give him a big money extension. They should try to trade him to one of these desperate teams that have been hood-winked into thinking he’s a good QB and parlay that into getting Mariota.
agree. With a statement like this anyone would lose all of his credibility. If that person had one to begin with that is.
chip is a big eli fan
Don’t make me throw up in my mouth.
thumbs up
for starters, chip is an eli fan. Spoke for like half an hour about how under rated he is and how bad the public is at judging QBs…Its a completely different system, much easier for Eli I would assume…..expecting a quality team to be built, get a solid veteran and we can compete right away…i love bashing Eli too, but lets not pretend he isnt better then probably any modern day QB we have had
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In the Biggest moments, Donovan comes up small… some of Eli’s best play came in big moments..Id Bet you that if Eli became available Chip would show heavy interest… Im not sure he will finish his career as a Giant so this theory could get put to the test in the next year or two
Yea it was Eli’s fault Asante Samuel dropped an interception in the end zone or Tyree suddenly had velcro on his helmet or Justin Tuck+Strahan dominated, or that Tom Brady overthrew Welker, or missed a healthy Gronk.
McNabb was a better QB than Eli, no matter what people think. Only ppl who think the QB is sole responsible for SB rings think Eli is better than McNabb.
I seldom agree with GEagle, but I’m somewhat in agreement about Eli. The first SB, yeah, he got hot. The second one, he was one of the best QBs in league all season…routinely making big league throws in key situations. He’s a lot like Romo when the line breaks down…chuck and duck…and that’s where all those INTs come from. With a good OL, he’d be near excellent.
Sorry, my opinions about Eli defy rationale arguments. He’s goofy looking. He’s a Giant. I don’t like him.
You make 3 excellent points.
The winner of the essay contest will write a paragraph between 40 and 60 words long on the topic of Mark Sanchez’ past performance that ends with the phrase “that’s where all those INTs come from.” Candidates are encouraged, but not required, to blame Sanchez’ interceptions on the offensive line. Replies with SASE will be returned along with a portfolio of Sanchez’ print advertisements autographed by the QB.
love to get like 4 years out of Eli […] in this offense.
lol.
I would love to see Cam in this offense. Guy is getting better and better despite having crap around him. He looked bad beginning of this year but once he finally got fully healed from his ankle surgery and Riverboat Ron decided on a 5 man Oline, Cam looked a lot better.
What if Chip really loved Winston since last year, and everything since then has been an elaborate ruse to get him to call the the Eagles?
well he has gone on record gushing about how good and talented winston is…
He gushed about Manziel and Nick Foles too.
I really hate how phony the NFL and Teams are about caring about Character.
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If a kid is talented enough some team will take a shot on him no matter what a scumbag he has been in the past. when that character concern ends up doing something stupid getting in trouble, the franchise is basically forced to cut him, no matter how important he is to the team or how much the team invested in him.. Public pressures team into waiving the “rotten egg”… yet a week later some other team like the Patriots, Seahawks, with a “strong Locker room” capitalizes getting a quality talent for cheap disguised under “Giving the young man a second chance”…. What a crock of shit.
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I would like us to stop being Phony about it… lets either admit that we want the best players in the world regardless of what they do off the football field, or lets seriously try and clean up the league of all the scum and filth that has been piling up this past decade…
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If a team signs or drafts a good kid with no bad history, and he ends up doing something stupid or illegal, we cant hold it against the franchise..
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but when a Team takes a chance on A KID with an ugly history, they should be held responsible for bringing bad character into the NFL..you draft or sign a player with an ugly history giving him a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th chance because you want his talent on your team, if he ends up doing something stupid that warrants an NFL suspension, the Team that signed or drafted him anyway should be penalized for it…
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For example PJ Williams, some had him as high as the 5th best CB prospect, hit and run and a DUI under his belt. He is going to fall in the draft, if someone thinks he is too talented to not take a flier on when he falls down the draft board, then when PJ Williams eventually gets in trouble again, the team that drafted him regardless of his history should be penalized… say he falls into round 5 and Bellichek thinks he is too talented to not take a chance on in his ability and drafts him…..3 years later when he gets arrested and earns an NFL suspension, the Patriots should lose an extra 5th round pick for takinmg him in round 5..
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Thats a step towards really trying to clean up the league… and it could lead to some idiots smartening up and make sure they really grow up and stay out of trouble… If im PJ Williams and no one wants to touch me because they dont want to be penalized and bellichek takes a chance on me in round 5, I probably have to understand that A) Im lucky someone is giving me a 2nd chance, and B) If I get in trouble and cost the team that gave me a 2nd chance an extra draft pick because of my stupidity, there is a very good chance I will never be given another chance again to play in the NFL
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Its just getting too out of hand. NFL players get in more trouble during the offseason the probably NBA,NHL,and MLB players combined… really need to start taking steps towards really trying to clean the league up…
Who will decide that player x is not fainted bc if a team drafts them the team could lose extra picks? Bc goodell isn’t exactly trustworthy in player discipline matters. This is far too much power and the actual execution of your idea would be too punitive and arbitrary.
I agree wholeheartedly with Tommy. I don’t want Winston on a team I’m rooting for.
I agree as well. I don’t want Winston.
Isn’t the first quote from Jaws false? Reading and listening to people who have been involved in the draft process almost all say that the boards have been pretty much set for a while, and usually it’s only minor adjustments that happen at this point. And haven’t coaches and certainly GMs been involved for quite a while by now?
Yep it all seems like misdirection. Or like Winston’s character flaws were just noticed. All BS.
The boards have been mostly set, but that doesn’t mean something can’t change them. Most obvious is when a prospect gets injured, but that’s not the only thing.
It is possible that Tampa has done some further background investigation on Winston and found the situation even worse than they had thought it was. Maybe there’s other buried skeletons in his past.
ICDogg – That is what I suspect is the case.
I thought I saw somewhere the other day that there was another rape incident, but that Winston & his entourage paid off the victim for her silence. Again, not 100% sure of the details or whether that’s at all true, just what I recall seeing.
or every report that the Bucs were taking Wilson was complete BS and they are just now starting to make their decision..
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wont be the first time the media brainwashed us into believing something that turned out to be completely false, and we flip out because what happens doesnt match the expectations the media CONDITIONED us to believe and expect
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heck people still cant get over that Marcus smith was picked in round 1 because the media inaccurately conditioned fans to think he would be drafted in round 3, when in reality, Multiple teams would have taken him in the 25-40 range, and there were even some very good media guys that were mocking him in round 1 as high as to the cowboys,,
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we all assume and assume that they were convinced that they would draft Jameis, but that could be completely false, and they could be just now deciding on the two QBs, while we are all already conditioned to think and assume he was going #1…
Obviously we don’t know what we don’t know. But any number of things are possible. If it is true that they liked Winston better as a quarterback, the scouts may have been inclined to take him, the coaches and GM may have also been inclined to take him, but the owner could have stepped in and said that this guy is trouble and I don’t want you to take him.
yes sir..
They’re constantly doing background checks on these guys. Maybe their security department(or whoever they outsourced it too) found out more damaging info about Winston.
Winston reminds me of McNabb because he wears #5, always has a goofy smile on his face, and he’s going to get fat.
No thanks.
I imagine FakeWIPCaller agrees with you
McNabb got fat? He was strong as shit. I wouldn’t call him fat.
you never heard anyone call him “Fatnabb”???
Or Mcflabby….
If a 22 year old McNabb was available in the draft, I would take him.
Chip gutted a large portion of the team because they weren’t his type of guys, I’d be surprised if he brought in an entitled jackass like Winston
Jackson: money Shady: money, Maclin: a money decision, Cole: time and money, Casey: too much MONEY for stellar ST performance. My guess is you are right about Kelly not having an interest in Winston, but Kelly didn’t “gut” the team, and he didn’t move people for style points or character.
I agree on all… But not DJ…
Roto Rumblings:
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The Dolphins are looking “very closely” at potential upgrades on current projected starting RCB Jamar Taylor.
The 54th overall pick in the 2013 draft, Taylor was a disappointment his first two seasons and is currently recovering from a torn labrum in his shoulder. The Fins have hosted Trae Waynes (Michigan State), Jalen Collins (LSU), and Kevin Johnson (Wake Forest) for pre-draft visits, while reportedly considering making a trade offer for Philadelphia’s Brandon Boykin.
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someone needs to join Johnny in rehab because they must be smoking crack:
ESPN’s Mark Dominik — a former NFL GM with the Buccaneers — believes Adrian Peterson’s trade value is a first-round pick and two second-rounders.
Dominik acknowledges no team would likely be willing to give up that much for Peterson, who turned 30 last month and is owed $13 million in salary and bonuses. Nevertheless, it’s interesting that such compensation would even be thrown around. Former Browns GM Phil Savage suggested that a second-round pick would be “a more reasonable haul” for a team trading for Peterson.
Mark Dominik was a hack as a GM for the bucks and they did some stupid trades where they massively overpaid. The idea that 1st and 2nd’s would be what would be needed for a 30year old RB coming off child abuse suspension is insane. You offer the Vikings a 2nd and they would take less than the 30 minutes it took to trade shady.
yeah, I dont know how anyone even has the balls to go on record an make such a stupid claim. 1st and a two 2nd’s for a 30yr old RB.. and if thats not bad enough, the team would have to take on AP’s contract which is crazy money for a RB..
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what a load of crap….. lol what I would give to see Jerry Jones pay 13mil for a 30yr old RB, and lose a 1st and two 2’s in the process… It would be glorious
I recently listened to an interesting discussion on Winston v. Mariota from the footballguys.com Audible Live podcast from 4/2/15. In it, Matt Waldman (highly followed amateur scout within the fantasy and draftnik community) raised different questions about Mariota’s potential — certainly for a different system than Kelly’s.
Waldman raised two principal critiques. The first is that Mariota is so adhered to the Oregon system that he perpetually accepts instructed reads in the play design and lacks the inclination or ability to seize greater opportunities that surface. Because of this profile of risk aversion and athletic ability, Waldman and his colleagues likened Mariota to Alex Smith — with the negative connotation that entails. Mariota may have a stronger arm than Smith, but his frustrating and limited approach as a QB may be similar.
The second critique is leadership and attitude. They questioned whether Mairota’s humility and diffidence would hinder his ability to lead an NFL team. There is a line where humility crosses into a lack of confidence, and hearing Mariota definitively refuse to say he was the best quarterback in the draft and underscore all of the areas he had to work on raised red flags with this group.
Mind you, this was a group (Waldman, Sigmund Bloom, and Cecil Lamey) who chafed last year at the criticism of Teddy Bridgewater and championed him despite Bridgewater’s introverted personality. The difference between Mariota and Bridgewater was that there was a quiet confidence to Bridgewater’s interviews and he gave no quarter that he was the toughest guy to play the position.
In contrast, this is the strength of Winston’s game that he gets his teammates to believe in him on the field and accomplish anything. The byproduct of this unfettered confidence has to be the off field terrible (potentially criminal) activity for Winston, inability to set self limits and coddled by an enabling machine at FSU. While Waldman rated Winston ahead of Mariota, he thought Tampa was the absolutely worst environment for Winston not only because it was close to home, but also because of that particular environment that has produced such off the field complications for the Bucs in the recent past.
Lastly, and interestingly, Waldman actually named Brett Hundley as his second rated QB in the class ahead of Mariota in third. Waldman saw on field that Hundley stayed poised in the pocket, he dropped his eyes to his receivers only after he broke the pocket. The limitations placed on Hundley — rarely allowed to audible and change protection — put him in unwinnable situations in Mora’s offense. He imagined Hundley in Oregon’s offense meeting or exceeding Mariota’s accomplishments.
All in all an interesting listen from one of my favorite analysts and food for thought for someone who would have been disappointed were Kelly unable to land Mariota. I’m now more interested in seeing Hundley as a fall back in Round 2 if we can’t get Mariota for anything close to a reasonable ransom.
“Tampa was the absolutely worst environment for Winston not only because it was close to home, but also because of that particular environment that has produced such off the field complications for the Bucs in the recent past.”
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whats that mean? what “off the field complications” have the bucs dealt with?
staph infections
Interesting critique of MM and a valid one. If memory serves, the leadership issues were also voiced about Joe Montana. Like Joe, you just have to talk to his teammates to understand what he brings to the team.
Regarding the inability to read a D, again I feel the comments are valid. However, during a given play receivers fall, protection breaksdown, etc, and the QB needs to read and react. Chip has commented about MM’s football IQ as has David Shaw, Luck’s Stanford coach. The issue may arise more in a Pro-style system but I doubt it given Shaw’s comments.
It’s a fine line, OD, definitely. Montana is the poster child for a ridiculously successful introvert at the QB position. The best of all time, still, IMO. It’s not required (or even warranted) to be a rah-rah jerk at QB. But you do have to be able to lead men with confidence when games — and schemes — break down.
Mariota has impeccable character. The question is whether he has impeccable leadership abilities. Led a college team to a National Championship, wins plaudits from NFL level mind like David Shaw. Maybe he does.
Coach Shaw should always be taken seriously. The NFL does.
The people you discuss might be excellent overall, but I have seen an interview with a defensive player from Oregon who stated that Mariota had no problem taking others to task for sloppy play or lack of effort. The guy said that Mariota even had a few things to say to the defense when they performed poorly. It seems to me that the alleged personality traits exhibited to the public, and the all-knowing media, were not necessarily what was exhibited in the locker room.
Useful counter-argument. Public persona and interviews may paint an incomplete picture of MM.
I just watched the first Arizona game of Mariota last night, probably his worst game–one of the things I keyed in on, especially after having seen all those good Hundley rushes, is that Mariota is a very poor rusher for his general athleticism. Much of that is a profound conservatism. Vick does the daredevil thing and stays on the field of play longer than he “has to”, but doing so is a big part of the credibility of a rushing threat, and is part of opening the field up, primarily for the RB. What you see with Mariota is a total lack of either improvisation or daredevilness as a rusher. What’s also clear is that his vision as a rusher (and as a pocket manipulator, too) is fairly poor. Takes a LOT of bad sacks in the Arizona game. Now, a QB’s job is generally to pass and not to run, but I think what I see out of Mariota’s rushing game is part of his general mentality. He was alright-pretty good as a passer, and did what I see him doing in most of the rest of his games. If I was an NFL scout, my number one, primary concern with him isn’t the “stay within the play” conservatism–it’s that Mariota is simply not going to punish aggressive edge play from DEs and OLBs like he should in the NFL, passing (a la one of the bad play shown on waldman’s Mariota reviews by another guy) or rushing, like what Kap or Dangrus will do. You will see many of the same problems with Mariota in the NFL that you do with Derek Carr, except better intuitive passing for more YPA with more sacks.
As for Winston and his rep? That will last about as long as Cam Newton and HIS rep. It was never anything other than silliness, and I, at this point, assume that anyone trying to hang onto the rape allegation will eventually get socially penalized. The allegations have never gone anywhere because it’s literally just an allegation, with zero evidence–what’s more the safety of he said-she said is not present. Winston has friendly witnesses while the accuser has none. Also, the accuser effectively claims assault, kidnapping, and rape, not only a date rape. There is no way you can have no evidence for all of that. What with the Rolling Stone incident in people’s minds as well as Darren Sharper and Milton Bradley, not only will more people look more closely at what’s there, but also be more willing to make judgment on partisans. Unlike the likes of Sharper, Winston (and FSU) would be perfectly happy to have a civil trial, because he damned well knows the accuser would have to take the stand and get shredded in public. The accuser knows this too, hence the perpetual leaking around important times of Winston’s career–trying to force a settlement. Thing is, everyone’s pissed off, and I doubt the NFL will allow the circus to continue.
So when Mariota chooses to function within the structure of the play design, he’s seen as lacking the inclination or ability to seize greater opportunities, whereas with Hundley, he was rarely allowed to audible and change protections because of Jim Mora. Oh, and he could imagine Hundley meeting or exceeding Mariota’s accomplishments in Oregon’s offense! I realize that podcasts can be somewhat extemporaneous, but that is some bs analysis. So Mariota gets downgraded for NOT going against his coaches structure, and Hundley is given a pass because his coaches are too structured (or he would have done much better!)
Here’s a look at all the throws made by Hundley, Winston, and Mariota in 2015:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/52722/349/2015s-quarterback-conundrum
Maybe the reason Hundley was limited by Mora had to do with his accuracy beyond 10 yards? Maybe Hundley isn’t good at changing protections? And to say that Hundley would have matched or beaten Mariota’s numbers at Oregon is nonsensical.
My scary thought – Eagles trade up and Mariota is there and they take – A WR vor something like that
my wet dream is that the eagles trade up and take OLB Fowler!!!
..
My nightmare is them trading up and taking a QB
White.. Lol… That’s my prediction how CK throws us for a loop
I read somewhere that Chip prefers that White guy, or something like that.
I wouldn’t mind bringing in Winston because I think he will end up being a better QB than Mariota.
Probably wrong theory: Jaworski’s source is telling him that Mariota is going #1 overall but what is unsaid is that it’s in a trade with Philly.
#20, Mark Sanchez, Will Murphy, and a 2016 7th. Final offer.
Only give the 7th as a conditional
clearly overpaid
I did. I meant to offer Matt Barkley, not Sanchez. If they want Sanchez instead then same deal but they give us next year’s 1st also.
Here’s a link to my full 7-round Eagles mock draft that I posted just the Eagles picks for last night:
http://forum.walterfootball.com/showthread.php?31685-Eagles-Nut-s-7-Round-Mock-Draft&p=2435895
Great draft!! I like the 9 players you took:
Nelson Agholor, Eric Rowe, Brett Hundley, Adrian Amos, Jeremiah Poutasi, Kyle Emanuel, Mark Glowinski, Obum Gwachan, Adrian Coxson
Let me know what you think about him.
Every time I see Winston, I want to punch him in the face.
Agreed
Tommy, I applaud your decision to take a somewhat provocative position in expressing your personal disgust with Winston. I upvoted the first comment to your article by Gary Barnes who cast a wider net in citing a system that elicits ugliness and immaturity because there is money to be made. I have no vested interest in defending Winston, but there probably are scores of current players in the NFL who have done far worse, but are out of the spotlight because the League and the Law “dealt” with it to serve the interests of billionaire-owners. This parade of exceptional lawlessness and corporate cover-up has its roots in a third-rate education system that the whores of the NCAA preside over with arbitrary judgement and dictatorial zeal. Everyone saw the pandering media attention that FSU received while the star QB did whatever the hell he wanted. This kid that you revile is a creation of gravy-train riders who do not have the moral core to care about the “student” in their charge or the institution he is representing. As long as somebody is paying, anything goes. When the NFL determines that these negative headlines are costing them more money in the long run than it is worth, we might see some structural change. Winston, I would venture, will grow up, keep his nose relatively clean, and go on to be a successful QB. He’s a proverbial yard from the finish line. The system that created him has no rules to threaten its future…unfortunately.
If he’s just a kid that has done stupid things like shoplifting and yelling bad things in the cafeteria, then I’d agree. If the rape allegations are true, then there is something fundamentally wrong with him and I don’t know if he could ever get beyond that.
Darren Sharper. Also the general culture.
from the huffingtonpost.com: “More then 70 members of f the US Military encounter coerced and abusive sexual contact, aggravated sexual assault or are raped every day (by other military members). That’s three every hour.”
With the kind of entitlement star athletes probably feel (both college and pros) it’s surprising that there aren’t more Darren Sharpers out there.
There probably are, they just haven’t been caught yet.
My guess is NFL athletes are doing lots of rather bad things to women at a rather high rate at after hours parties and whatnot. They’re young men with lots of testosterone and are used to getting what they want, and lots of vulnerable women are going to be (foolishly, in many cases) going there. A 2014 study reported only about a third of rapes are reported. I would not be surprised if groupies report an even lower %, since the lines are so blurred in this case.
how funny would that be if the Titans ask for chip a ridiculous amount for a trade up and he refuses and they say you don’t have any leverage we are the only option you’ve got and chip would be like “try me, give me the bucs on the phone”.
My interesting scenario for this draft is suppose both Winston and Mariota go early and their teams aren’t going to trade them after the fact. CLE supposedly offered #19 for Bradford, what if they get desperate and call and offer the #12 overall pick for Bradford? Would you do the deal and roll the dice on Sanchez and then grab Hundley or Petty in the 2nd(or after trading down from #20 if you don’t think they will last that long)?
Bradford is rehabbing his injury, which means he will be healthy again once Dr. Andrews clears him and Healthy Sam is better then every QB you just named… After watchng Maclin accelerate and cut for 16 games on his two times repaired Knee, after accepting Kiko will get over his knee, Ill take my chances that Sam'[s knee can handle a 3 step drop….
..
Kiko has the same knee issues, should we try to trade him too?
Not saying I would but there is a price point where you’d move him. His contract situation is a likely impediment to any deal. I was surprised that we traded for him without an extension in place. Him being on a 1-year deal and the fact that we haven’t committed to him financially long-term is the primary reason why I think they’re open to moving him. That is probably likely only if they land Mariota but speculation is what we do here.
12th pick in the draft isnt worth going into a season with Sanchez and the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB prospect,..,
…
Think the Eagles are much higher on Sam then the people who include his name in every rumor think…. fortunately few more weeks and all the madness stops
…
Bradford, Sanchez, Barkley…2015 Eagles
I’m with you on the first 2.
I think Barkley should be nervous….
i don’t think he’d agree to an extension plus if we extend him we have to eat a lot of $$ in a trade.
That’s part of the problem. If the plan was to flip him for Bradford, then we’d likely need to give him and his agent
permission to talk extension terms with every potential trade partner. if he’s going to be a key piece of any move down for them, they will likely want an extension in place with him.
Bradford is injury prone. You can pretend that he’s not, but if it’s not a knee he’s had two serious shoulder injuries as well. At least MAC’s tears were years apart.
Hell yes. Bradford isn’t a guarantee to stay after this one year. Sure Murray and whoever came here to play with Bradford might get their feelings hurt but it’s a business after all. We can get a stud OL, WR, or CB with the 12th pick. If we don’t like anyone there we could always trade down and grab additional picks to use.
Petty
If you trade Bradford and get 12th, you almost have to pick Hundley or Petty at 20 just to make sure you get one of them.
First off I see no chance Winston makes it all the way to 20. There are definitely going to be teams that are desperate for a pro ready qb, and within those teams HAS to be a coaching staff with a big enough ego to think they can change/control his idiotic behavior. If for some reason he does fall, I pray we don’t take him for all of the same reasons already stated.
Secondly, and before I upset some people I have been a diehard fan for the past 25 years, and maybe missed 3 games in that time, and recorded games in which we played the Browns (and actually watched it) when I couldn’t watch it live. Ok here it is… I would rather NOT win a Super Bowl for the next 10 years than to have Eli Manning as my starting qb FOR ONE GAME. Sorry there it is, I’d rather trade Bradford back to the rams, send another 2nd, and take Nick Foles back before we take that other garbage Qb out of NY
I can appreciate a good irrational grudge. Hear hear to Eli Manning being a turd.
Funny, but, er… has Eli ever done anything to anyone?
Kind of reminds me of when Kip Winger said “we never killed anybody or anything.”
When we brought Vick in I had no choice but to root for the guy. If the Eagles bring Winston in I’ll have no choice but to root for the guy.
If it helps, there are probably guys scattered across the league who do shitty, terrible things and just haven’t been caught. Hell, Darren Sharper flew under the radar for a long time before he got exposed.
It gets tougher and tougher the shittier the things a person does, but at the end of the day I try and keep it in this perspective; they’re football players and they’re here to help the Eagles win football games, not conduct themselves as decent human beings.
It’s a nice fantasy to think all our boys in Green are stand up citizens who go home and kiss their wives every night, but that’s just not the case.
I’m all for not treating football players like they’re saints or nice guys. Most of the time, they’re not; they’re just people, with faults like anyone else. Some of them you could probably share a beer with, some not.
But that’s a far cry from someone actively involved in criminal behavior, like rape, murder, etc. And as I write this, I wish I could say I was being hyperbolic by writing “rape” and “murder”, but the unfortunate reality is that it’s not hyperbole in today’s NFL. That’s a real shame.
I could get behind Vick because he was punished for his crime, and seemed truly repentant. And at the end of the day, as heinous as it was, it wasn’t people. I couldn’t root for a guy like Winston, or Rae Carruth, or Hernandez, or Sharper. These people shouldn’t be rewarded by our society, nor should they command my respect or support. I would have to have a serious discussion with myself about how I could support the team moving forward with a guy like Winston at the helm.
My point is, there are probably plenty of players who are actively involved in criminal behavior that we don’t know about, simply because they haven’t been caught, or perhaps will never be caught.
Hell, Ray Lewis probably murdered a guy and he’s celebrated as one of the best to ever play.
And I very much doubt that “today’s NFL” is somehow less pure than the one back in the day.
I think rape is a horrible thing like any decent human being does. I’ll say this too, I’m not real familiar about his rape allegations. However I am not as quick to judge as some regarding it. We have all seen or heard about famous athletes being targeted by people trying to extort them for money. Winston was in college when this happened, so he more then likely did not have alot of money then, but everyone knew he would shortly. I had a friend that was accused of rape because he broke up with the girl. It completely destroyed him and it turned out it was all false. He committed suicide a year and 4 months later. The thing here is that Winston was never convicted. Furthermore as you can see in the Sharper case and other cases world wide, a rapist doesn’t normally just do it once. I would think if he were really a rapist there would have been other victims that may have come out by now. Again, I don’t know alot about the case, so if there is anything that contradicts what I just said regarding him then please let me know. Just from the fact he wasn’t convicted, and I’ve seen this happen to a person close to me I am not quick to judge when it comes to things like this.
I hear you, and I think that false rape accusations are about as low as you can get. Not just because of the damage it does to the accused, but because it’s such a vile insult to people who actually have been raped, and because every time that happens, it undermines the credibility of those who have legitimately suffered. It makes true rape cases harder to prove, and it lets scumbags dance out of trouble.
And I’m not 100% certain that Winston is a “rapist”. I fully agree with concepts like “innocent until proven guilty”. I just think that there’s nothing anyone gained from the Winston allegations, it sort of fits with the persona he projects, and because I get very suspicious when anything is settled outside of court with this sort of thing.
Maybe Winston isn’t a rapist. I don’t know. But I certainly don’t feel comfortable with him as my quarterback.
He is definitely an idiot at times, but I think its a stretch to say he is cocky and does idiotic things so being a rapist may fit his persona. I don’t feel comfortable with him as our QB either for 2 reasons. Because his play on field and because his idiotic moments. When I say idiotic moments I mean all the stupid stuff he has done besides the rape allegations.
I’ll leave the burden of proof stuff to the courts. I feel strongly that the courts are bound to “innocent until proven guilty”. I am not bound personally by that same precept, so I’ll keep my own counsel on whether I think the rape charges are true or not. Maybe it’s not fair, but I’m entitled to my own opinion about him, unlike the courts, and I’m simply not comfortable with that aspect of his history.
I hear you. Everyone has a right to believe what they want. That’s one of the things that makes us free. Untill something is proven in facts who knows what is true and false. Sometimes the courts are wrong and public opinion is right and vice versa.
I thought you were restricted in what you were allowed to believe about strength training. That’s what I heard, anyway. 🙂
Lmfao. That sir is the one thing we cannot speak about. It would be herrasy to the highest degree.
The NY Times ran a story about how the Florida prosecutor buried the evidence against Winston and instead of being repentant, the Winston camp is smearing people in Florida who are advocating for the victim. For the moment, Winston is ‘winning’ because he is getting his way and apparently not paying any price for it.
However this compares to Vick’s crime, I was livid at Vick when he denied the charges and when Reid signed him I was befuddled for a moment but accepted Vick’s contrition, and rooted for him to start for a while.
I am glad that fans on football boards are candid about their views on this, more so than the league that covered up the Ray Rice video until it came out in on a web site. To argue for the rights of the accused is also an important part of American citizenship, but I don’t think due process has been served here.
I have never read it, and if you said it was written then it was written. I just don’t understand as to why the prosecuter would burry it unless the prosecute was paid off. Am I right in that would be the only reason? Now if that were true since it got into the national media wouldn’t the prosecutors career be over with definite jail time? It just sounds weird. Can you provide a link of the article? If this hit the paper it would also obviously hit the internet. Honestly I would expect it to hit the media everywhere and be a huge story. Lol maybe I’m looking at it wrong. If I am someone please explain.
link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jamies-winston.html?hp&_r=0
I don’t know Florida’s system, but in many states, prosecutors are locally elected officials. In general, as an elected official, you don’t want to commit acts that a) piss off a sizable plurality of registered voters, and/or b) piss off the big money in the area. The last thing you want to do is motivate people, especially the money people, to get you out of office.
And like cops, it’s rare that prosecutors are ever held legally responsible for their misdeeds. (Note, not saying anything about cops in general, just noting that the bad apples are often protected by the system.) Some of the ones that have been held minimally accountable by the system have parlayed their lack of ethics into national tv gigs…
Understand. Lol and I have been currently residing in Pompano Beach Florida for close to 3 years now so I can tell you it’s the same system up North. Great place for vacation, but do not come down here to live unless it’s for retirement or you are truly rich.
it was not settled outside of court, none of the 3 investigations into the allegations went anywhere. Undoubtedly there was a misunderstanding but given that allegations re-heated up around the ray rice incident if someone had done something wrong, either winston, or the parties that investigated the incident (police, school and NCAA under Title IX) someone would have said something. It’s crazy to me that Winston wears a scarleltt letter when big ben RAPED girls served a two game suspension and called it day.
What will it ever take for him to move past something that happened when he was 18, there are no other allegations of misconduct from anyone, Winston’s never had any “party boy” issues.
Regardless of if he did it or he didn’t do it (and frankly most of these cases are shades of gray not black and white), he learned nothing from the expedience.
Less than a year later he stood on a cafeteria table and screamed an extremely misogynistic statement.
We’re not talking about something off color he said amongst friends, but in the middle of a crowded groups of students,
And then he decided that despite being suspended he was going to suit up for the game anyways.
Like I said I don’t want him on the team for his other idiotic exploits.
Thanks D3FB – I’m embarrassed to say I was not entirely clear on “misogynistic” – A misogynist is a person who hates or doesn’t trust women.Misogynist is from Greek misogynḗs, from the prefix miso- “hatred” plus gynḗ “a woman.” Source: http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/misogynist
Thanks for the clarity OD :). Saved me from looking it up…lol.
…..
There’s doing stupid things and there’s showing a pattern. This guy is displaying a terrible pattern….
All he said was f*** her right in the pussy
Watch “The Hunting Ground” and then tell us you think he’s the victim here.
Look, if you closely read what I said I never said I completely believe if he did it or not. I’m just hesitant to call someone a rapist without it fully being proven that he is. It’s a very heavy word to call someone. It’s not like calling them stupid.
Gonna watch that film.
In this case, I actually think the police and FSU did him a disservice by not doing their job. There will always be this “what if” with him because the DA never filled charges (as an outsider, a DA sounds like a super corruption position, why is it even up to a single person if they want to file charges?, bc it seems that a DA only have reason to file charges if he is almost 100% sure he can win).
Or maybe the DA did him a huge favor because he actually did it.
Any way you slice it, the police didn’t do their fucking job and investigate the allegations thoroughly, and you me and everyone else on the planet knows its because it involved a star player at the local college.
Honestly, Winston doesn’t need people to apologize for his behavior. He’s about to make millions of dollars. I get the impulse to remain neutral, but the reality is that you’re making excuses for someone who potentially could have done it. Why waste your time on it?
It was a lot easier to root for Vick, given that he did time for his crimes. I’d stop rooting for the team while Winston was here
Should we hold Winston responsible for the police and FSU not doing their job?
Hell most Ravens fans do not care Ray Lewis pretty much killed a man (had Ray Lewis been convicted in this day and time, he would have been done, but back then there was really only paper Newspapers).
I don’t really care about how much of a jerk or a scumbag Jameis Winston is. If he can be an elite QB for the next 10-15 years, I would take him.
To me character concerns are an issue only when I’m not sure it’s going to affect his ability to maintain a high playing level in the NFL.
Unless they cause bans.
Sometimes I feel that way. Hitler at QB, Stalin at RB, Ted Kaczynski at TE, Charlie Manson at DE. If they bring us a Super Bowl, sign them up.
Other times I feel differently.
Manson would be a terror off the edge.
Go root for the Steelers, then. Alleged multi-rapist Winston is the perfect replacement for alleged multi-rapist Roethlisberger
Clearly you don’t personally know anyone who has been raped or assaulted. Or you are just being hyperbolic, in which case you should probably stop commenting on rape-issues on the internet.
yeah — it’s a stupid statement for sure. People treat this like the guy went out and got drunk one night and did silly things. This kid is displaying more than “character” concerns…
There’s an interesting article @ BGN where Mark Saltveit take on chip’s MM possible plan that mkes sense to me…Chip is talking up mm to teams about his ability to win multiple SB’s. If he is drafted high by a team he is almost sure to start sometime during the season for a team that has a completely different scheme and doesn’t have the pieces in place to give him success. Then in the next year or two, they scraphe plan and Chip can trade for him at a much lower cost.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/4/11/8389511/chip-kelly-marcus-mariota-long-game-nfl-draft-2015-eagles
That could very well end up destroying him too. There have been a litany of talented QBs in this league that are destroyed by poor teams and poor coaching. In all honesty that plan really sounds ridiculous.
Trying to salvage bust QBs isn’t the best idea in the first place. Bust QBs/CBs are creatures of habit, you’re working with a mountain instead of a mold of clay when you get them.
Agree completely.
Oh the Dion Jordan plan? Yea no thanks Saltveit isn’t the brightest.
DJ screwed himself with the drug problems, and teams lost interest…don’t see that with MM.
DJ has shown nothing to be worth trading for in the first place.
I think Chip even came out and said he wasn’t interested. Him or at least someone in the FO said it. This whole DJ trade thing was completely driven by the media and fans to the point people convinced themselves it was actually what Chip and The FO wanted.
Yeah, those silly Fans….*thinkingof1
Please explain.
Starts with a G and ends with an E…. oh wait…
Well played. Sir.
Given recent events I was considering changing my name. However my parents begged to differ…
😀
I’ve been thinking about switching mine to:
Ich habe ein sehr klein wurst.
Lol. It’s ‘eine’. Don’t ask my why sausage is female in German though.
Conjugation always kicked my ass.
Google translate, and being the funny one in class are the only reason I passed GRMN 201.
Kid from my conference (Philly kid) just signed to play with the Munich Cowboys
http://juniatasports.net/sports/fball/2014-15/releases/Ward_Munich
Awesome news!
Yep, Chip and Azz are going to go driving an old sedan, wearing dark sunglasses and cheap suits, across the country and rescue all the former Duck stars from their mundane NFL careers for one final, glorious reunion. They are on a mission from God.
I would rather try my luck with JaMarcus Russell than Winston…
Why choose? You could have both!
great point! Come onnnnn snake eyes!
I sort of think the post is a little silly bc Winston would never get picked by this team no matter how talented. I bed we’d trade back if he fell to
No need for worry. Don’t think Chip would want him after watching how mouthy he got with the FSU coach. Besides no way he slips that far. Too many teams are too desperate for a QB and they will over look the character flaws. Winston wouldn’t be the first jackass selected in the first round.
IF Winston goes #1 to Tampa Bay, his signing bonus will be in the vicinity of $15,000,000. To me, this presents the greatest area of concern for any team choosing to make him the face of their franchise. That kind of money will magnify every shortcoming, weakness, ignorance, arrogance, bad choice, and lack of common sense.
As for Chip taking Winston, were he to drop that far, I don’t see Chip handing Jameis the keys to the Ferrari – literally or figuratively.
Giving $15m to any 20 yr old seems dumb, would you rather he be Jake locker? Or Sam Bradford or clowney?
Not following your would you rather he be point…mine being that I don’t trust JW (based solely on what’s been reported). Will he change? Will he mature in time to maximize his talents at a professional level? With his talent, he’ll definitely be given the opportunity to prove he can.
My point is that if you’re talking about wasting $15m there’s no 100% prospect, high character guys don’t pan out, some low character guys do.
I don’t even know if winston is the type of guy who would go crazy with $$, it’s not like partying / drugs has ever been his issue. He def. won’t need to steal crab legs anymore.
I don’t know if the CBA allows this or not, but I might say to him “We’ll take you #1. But to do so, you’ve got to agree to having some of that signing bonus deferred”. Basically mandatory financial planning for him. Give him enough money to live on comfortably now but not so much where the money himself leads him to trouble.
It does allow for protections against bad behavior if it’s put into the contract. Just ask Josh Gordon, and I would do the same thing with Winston and legal troubles.
I can’t even comprehend what getting that type of money would be like.
a few concussions you’d forget all about it.
I dont think there is really much that could make me forget about that type of money.
On NFLam they’ve been doing a mock draft for the past couple of weeks and for each pick they would interview a media representative from each teams city making their teams pick. This morning it was the eagles turn to pick and howard eskin was on the air to make the selection..right away i was thinking “this fool is going to say landon collins”..but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. He started off answering questions about shadys recent comments about chip and said they were ridiculous, shadys ego was just bruised and that chip has no problems with star players..demarco was the #1 player in the league. ..so far so good, eskin handled the questions properly and then it was time to make the eagles pick…i was excited, finally we’ll get some thoughtful, logical atypical eagles talk in the national media…and then he said…landon collins and i threw my toast at the TV.
How do these people get jobs? Its amazing that with a little hard work I could be a better than that guy.
with no work you are already better than Peter King.
King is about the most consistently annoying, and wrong, writer I’ve come across an the internet. Football cliches sprinkled with outdated, Joe-Buck style norms; an always shocking lack of insight coupled with a lack of self-awareness.
Here’s some classic haterade on PK: http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2009/07/fun-with-klassic-peter-king-the-foul-ball-story.html
You know at nj.com both ESP and Eckel both seem to think they are going to take Collins.
It seems as though through the nation the consensus pick is Collins. Sorta ridiculous if you think about it. Alot of these professional writers/reporters won’t do the HW to find out he is far from a scheme fit. They just see a need and throw a player there.
that’s every mock. “oh the eagles were weak in the secondary so that’s the pick” ummm, BPA?
Even if he doesn’t fit the scheme of what you want your safeties to do? Furthermore in the majority of the mocks it blatantly states the Eagles are taking him because they need secondary help.
hey i’m not defending them. i think it’s ridiculous for anyone, in this era, to use a first on a pure strong safety.
I understand, but I don’t even think the BPA defense works for these writers considering our scheme. It’s the equivalent of them saying we should draft a pure 4-3 end in the first because he is BPA. BPA only works if the player fits in your scheme otherwise you are truly limiting the effectiveness of the player. At that point you would be better off getting a lesser rated prospect that actually does fit your scheme, and he would probably be better off. Collins will have serious issues manning up against the slot receiver and playing deep.
i guess i should specify that BPA, to me, includes scheme. so collins could be the world’s nastiest box safety ever and he wouldn’t belong on our board
Yup. Unless we change what we look for in a safety and change our scheme accordingly. Just doesn’t seem a Chip or Davis thing to do though.
ESP responded to a comment of mine and said that just because he didn’t do something well in college doesn’t mean he can’t do it. So, he can be a fit and therefore they should pick him.
Has Chip had him in for a visit? That’s more telling than any perceived scheme fit or need.
According the most recent draft tracker I saw, he hasn’t been in for a visit.
Edit: Sorry, link.
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/04/08/eagles-2015-pre-draft-prospect-tracker/
Anderson decided to leave UVA early. I had high hopes for next year.
I’m the 3rd/4th round that may make sense, however in the first round and with so many other more important positions, I wouldn’t feel comfortable spending a 1st rounder that may or may not develop man coverage skills…. Especially with our record with developing defensive backs. They need to pick a guy that does well what they want him to do already and refine that skill. Imo, if you want a safety, pick a guy with good coverage skills and teach him how to tackle. I know we can do that.
I agree. You don’t spend a 1st on a guy that isn’t a scheme fit because he may turn into a scheme fit. And now i just realized they haven’t met with him, so I’d be very surprised to see them pick him.
If you want that kind of safety/nickel backer spend a 7th or priority UDFA Brian Blechen.
Lol real intelligent. I really wish one of us were to make it to their level and be able to cover the Eagles.
I still don’t forgive Eckel for LaCharles Bentley
You honestly can’t expect to hear 100% logical reasoning from him most of the time. Lol
Just a question, lots of eagles fan (myself included) are in love with byron jones and would be glad to pick him at 20. We can say that this pick is on par with the recent seahawks draft success of picking athletic stars. Hence, why Armstread an athletic heracles isn’t really considered as a potential pick? Is it only because it doesn’t adress a current need? Or because athleticism at the DE position should translate to a better production than DB? Just wondering.
Need mostly. We have been clamoring for DB help for years now. If it were DL help then it would be the other way around.
when I asked people here the other day if they would be happy with Jones at 20, I thought I got mostly “no” feedback as if he shouldn’t be picked that high.
Armstead isn’t as productive as a player right now.
Also Armstead is a 5 tech only. So he only fits about half the teams in the league, and 34 DE’s are actually a pretty talent deep position right now around the league. I honestly think he goes somewhere around where Hageman went last year.
Jones is more productive on tape, and has experience in zone, off, and press, so he’s a schematic fit for everyone.
Jaws — who has always been one of my favs — disagrees with a lot of posters. I happen to agree with Jaws. There are a lot of posts saying the Eagles move were driven by money. That’s not what Jaws is saying and I think his opinion holds some merit. The Eagles could have easily kept Shady. They could have easily said, let’s pay Maclin more money. As Jaws said — CK could have easily went 10-6 again with the same roster and everyone would be happy with another playoff appearance etc etc. Everybody but not CK.
…
CK saw the high ceiling with last years roster and figured it wasn’t high enough. Time for change. Blow it up and start anew. Right or wrong, we know 1 thing — Chip isn’t going to beat a dead horse year after year. And I’m on board with that…
It’s an interesting way of seeing things but I think chip answers and actions are proofs that money was the first cause of those moves. What did chip say? “We are investing too much on O compared to our D, we need to balance it more”. That is just what he did. I think except for Shady where he really thought investing in 2 good to great backs were better than one great he tried to respect this balance but still wanted to keep talent. I’m not sure chip is confident about being a better O without J-Mac.
What better excuse to have to move people — Money. Chip, well, I don’t remember for sure if it was his words, said that Shady wasn’t his type of running style. So maybe it’s a combination of the two? Eagles did try to sign Mac last year. So maybe, the words of Jaws “blow this whole thing up” isn’t really blowing up this team as much as moving Shady and Foles…
Exactly, I can’t see paying MAC what KC was paying him. Murray was a splurge but they knew they had to create a lot of cap space for Maxwell and Mccourty.
Chip made the types of hard decisions that you need the personnel guy to make — putting the team above the players. Those guys either get fired or win games, hopefully it’s the latter.
It says how much Laurie trusts in him that he’s allowed to move on from all of the team’s offensive all stars in their prime.
finally discovered this game you guys have been playing..like I needed more reasons to be less productive and enable my eagles obsession
Your score is: 6420 (GRADE: A-)
Your Picks:
Round 2 Pick 3 (OAK): Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn (B)
Round 2 Pick 20: Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut (B+)
Round 2 Pick 23 (ARI): Ty Sambrailo, OT, Colorado State (B+)
Round 3 Pick 4 (OAK): Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart & William Smith (A-)
Round 3 Pick 20: Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 3 (OAK): Eric Rowe, CB/FS, Utah (B)
Round 4 Pick 14: Anthony Chickillo, DE, Miami (Fla.) (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Clayton Geathers, SS, UCF (A)
Round 5 Pick 20: MyCole Pruitt, TE, Southern Illinois (A+)
Round 6 Pick 20: Brandon Bridge, QB, South Alabama (B-)
Round 7 Pick 20: Max Valles, OLB, Virginia (D-)
I think if you switch Jones and Coates, it is a very reasonable draft! Not sure if Rowe will last that far(I would maybe like Shaw there.) but I’m really happy you discovered the sight. It can be extremely addicting!
i wanna do this, where do i go?
First-pick.com
grazie
Anyone think Cox could be trade bait, why not just exercise his option?
What makes them mutually exclusive?
Can’t they exercise his 5 year option and then trade him anyway?
i wonder if it’s dead $$ for us if we exorcise, i’d have to hear from a capologist.
Good point. I guess this is first time this situation has come up under the new CBA.
Comes down to whether the money is guaranteed and what kind of guarantee it is.
When a tendered RFA gets cut after signing the tender does that count against the cap? That’s the nearest equivalent I can think of.
I’ll be angry.
I think he could be, but I hope not.
Could they be holding off to incentivize signing a long-term deal? Offer him a little less now, but don’t make him wait until after the 5th year?
17 days until the draft.
17 days to either sanity or more insanity. For me it’ll be the former, but if CK does stuff people don’t agree with, it’ll be crazy until TC.
Interesting theory and one I buy more than saltveits:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/67933/kelly-and-mariota-an-alternative-theory
That would explain this http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chip-kelly-rocks-the-frank-underwood-double-tap-152513109.html
I’ve had this feeling for a long time about CK and MM. CK wants a team that has players at every position and he can’t accomplish that by giving away so many picks.
The only problem with that theory is that MM would be gone before #20 regardless of what Chip says.
He’s the consensus #2 QB in the draft and the drop to #3 is precipitous. Kelly could say he’s a rapist and a cannibal and he’d still be a top 10 pick on every board.
Yeah, Chip also said Nick Foles would be the Eagle’s starting QB for the next 1000 years. These chumps always over react to what “Chip Says”. I think it’s been proven whats more important is what Chip doesn’t say (ref Shady McCoy). If anything, I think this is great news. It means Chip doesn’t have Mariotta in his plans, but likes the guy and wants to help him get a top draft selection.
No way we draft Winston; he doesn’t fit what Chip wants in a QB.
Lets get back to discussing if we get one of the blue chip Guards, or which WR and S, CB we pick up.
I don’t agree with Mosher much, but I feel the same way he does about the Eagles moving back.
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/moshers-mailbag-will-eagles-move-back-draft
yeah especially when you see the reference to the cowboys with Jimmy Johnson dealing one player for multiple players.
makes sense since CHip and Jimmy talked about this stuff apparently.
we do need more good players rather then one decent college qb.
we already have a number one pick qb on the team BTW!
I’d love to walk away in this draft with a WR, 2 or 3 OL, DB, and a DE.
I have the same hope for picks. The MM thing is 50/50 at best. Chip knows he has to fix other areas if the team is to move to the next level – i.e. winning Playoff games and maybe more.
Some tradeup partners want Cox and I think this is a deal killer for Chip. He knows he has to fix D now if he wants to win now.
yeah you don’t trade your beast on the d-line if you want to win now
do you trade Watt for Rodgers straight up?
of course.
if your getting the proven best qb that’s a given
So by analogy if CK thinks Mariota is proven best (in his system) does the Cox trade make more sense?
he is proven in college not the nfl, but I get what you are saying. chances have to be taken at some point.
If the Titans were willing to deal #2 for just Cox, and no other draft picks (not even #20) that might be something to consider, I guess. It will still severely damage the defense. I sorta doubt the Titans would do that since they might be able to find someone as good as Cox (or at least the hope he will be) at #2, who would be controllable for several more years than Cox, and I’m don’t exactly think the Titans are that one player away.
Hearing you say that’s a deal killer makes me feel much better. As much as I can justify using Cox as an asset to reallocate resources, I’d still hate to lose one of the biggest draft “hits” we’ve had in recent years. Guy is just going to get better. I’m fine parting with a lot of the other guys people talk about (Kendricks, Curry, Boykin), but Cox would be a much tougher loss.
Makes sense this far out that the other team(s) ask for the moon.
I think he just talked to jimmy j about program/roster building. I don’t think the herschel walker trade is relevant to anyone, thought maybe that should have been a sign about whether to trade his QB / star running back. But we haven’t netted picks in any of CKs moves — we’ve gotten players.
yeah im talking about the draft coming up though, not trading away picks instead getting more
“I’ve got a better chance of hitting if [I] have more draft picks than
if you have less draft picks. That’s basically it, philosophically.”
philosophically. he mentioned this word twice in the quotes mosher uses. The tea leaves i read are that he understands conventional wisdom, but isn’t married to it.
CK isn’t married to anything. We’ve seen that with how he moved on from star players. I just think in a deep draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, that he’d try to maximize his chances there and pick up some extra picks. But we agree that he isn’t married to it.
Especially in this draft. There are 12-15 top tier prospects and then after that there is 25-30 guys that could go anywhere depending on taste.
Take WR – Perriman, Strong, DBG, Agholor, Dorsett, Parker, Smith – have all been ranked differently by people depending on their taste and preference but fundamentally they all have ‘similar’ grades.
IF you are patient and are willing to trade back and then trade back up again you can probably get 2 of those guys in that range rather than just 1 with the 20th pick if you are willing to take a risk/gamble.
I would rather come out with lets say, Rollins, Agholor and Marpet from the first 2 rounds than Perriman and Rowe.
definitely into the tradeback. i finally made a draft i didn’t totally hate:
Your score is: 6490 (GRADE: A-)
Round 1 Pick 27 (DAL): Breshad Perriman, WR, UCF (B+)
Round 2 Pick 20: Nelson Agholor, WR, Southern California (A-)
Round 2 Pick 22 (DET): Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut (B+)
Round 2 Pick 28 (DAL): Benardrick McKinney, ILB, Mississippi State (A)
Round 3 Pick 20: Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Texas A&M (A-)
Round 4 Pick 14: Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor (A-)
Round 5 Pick 9: Kevin White, CB, TCU (B+)
Round 5 Pick 20: Jake Ryan, OLB/ILB, Michigan (B-)
Round 6 Pick 20: Dominique Brown, RB, Louisville (A+)
Round 7 Pick 20: Louis Trinca-Pasat, DT, Iowa (A-)
On what planet can moving back seven spots garner two 2nd round draft picks. Maybe 2 fourth rounders…
aha! i moved back twice
That makes it even more unrealistic! What did the Eagles get last year when they moved back with Cleveland it was at a greater distance and only brought in a single 3rd.
take it up with the website running the draft game
The chase for Mariota is over, i think, if its true that Bradford won’t even listen to extension offers from CLE. That guy is ridiculous to me (or principled depending on how you look at it). He could be straight backup role, or out of the league if he doesn’t perform this year but he’s reject what would probably be a lucrative deal from CLE, who is a pretty stacked team (front office mess aside).
Also if that’s the case then CLE was never really involved in the bradford trade w/ STL to begin with and we got completely fleeced.
its funny a guy wants to retire after his last injury has to be talked out of it and still would not dare to play for the browns… he would rather not play at all it seems then be in CLeve LAnd
yeah well he’s already made a TON of money i guess he can be picky
all I know is he has a better arm then MM. some of the passes he can make, MM cannot.
Lol
Why is this a story now??!??!?
Peter King reported Bradford wouldn’t do an extension with the Browns when Philly traded for him. And it was a major sticking point back then.
My question (for Tommy) is: Does Eckel’s report imply that the Eagles gave permission for the Browns to talk to Bradford’s agent?
if the eagles gave sams agent permission to talk to the browns it would be a national story. you wouldnt have to ask about it, it would be the news of the day
Browns new when SB was with STL that it likely wasn’t happening can’t see anything changing now. No sign and trades in the NFL.
I will say this whole story is probably a negotiating tactic. CK said browns called him right after the trade offering no. 19, how do they do that if they won’t do a deal w/out an extension?
Eckel’s “report” is another instance of him flinging poo at the wall hoping to catch a few poor dumb flies. Based on my reading of the internet today, he seems to have succeeded rather well.
I read that Bradford is financially set from his rookie contract, and he just has a strong desire to play. In his pc he said that he felt like he has something to prove, which all bodes well for us if he can stay healthy.
good thing someone talked him out of retirement then
I feel the need to make a comment here:
I’m proud of my IB brethren for mostly standing up against the thought of having Winston on this team. That being said, I highly, highly recommend seeing the documentary “The Hunting Ground”, a documentary about sexual assault on college campus, and the universities attempts to cover it up and/or persecute the victims. This movie says a lot about how we treat rape in our society today, and reading a couple of comments on here that irked me on how some people see rape.
For the football side of things, in this documentary, the woman who Jameis Winston raped tells her story, and tell the side of the story that outlets like ESPN and major news companies would not benefit to tell. A truly telling quote from the trailer, ”He won the Heisman trophy with his DNA inside a rape kit”.
I really hope at least a couple of you take some time to see this movie, and if you have kids getting ready to go to college or in college, ESPECIALLY YOUNG MEN, have them see this movie and talk to them about sexual assault on campus. This is a MAJOR epidemic, and the only way we can change that is by educating the most frequent offenders, young men.
Take a couple of minutes to watch this trailer, and please please go see this movie when/if its in a theater near you. Otherwise, it should be out on Netflix this fall. I know its a subject that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but its a battle worth fighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBNHGi36nlM
I read about this coming out and figured it would be tough for Winston to over come this movie telling the woman’s side of the story nationally and get picked number 1.
somebody is going to pick him though I guess….
we don’t want none of that here
Her portayal sounds bad. But does she have any corroborating evidence aside from his DNA – like his roommate that busted in saying that she’s saying no, etc. The fact that she went directly to the hospital does make it seem like something untort happened (at least in her mind). Then again the tox report she received at the hospital reveals that she was intoxicated and had no drugs in her system how does that jibe? Why then does the doc allow her to say she thinks her drink was spiked and that she randomly went home with a couple of football guys, which was unlike her? Was she paid to appear in the documentary? Why do her friends refute her version of the facts?
The fact that there’s been no settlement of any kind also makes me a little curious. I wonder what Jameis is telling teams.
yeah those are interesting thoughts.
but it doesn’t matter what can be proven at this point probably, it just matters what people hear and what they perceive to be true. he should ‘ve let himself be interviewed if he has a side to tell and he didn’t do it
i don’t like how he comes off in press conferences i def wouldn’t want him talking in for the doc. Are any dudes interviewed for the documentary? do they drop any names other than winston’s?
There is a man who was arrested and convicted of sexual assault on campus, and he speaks about how he worked, what he did, and how he picked out his victims. They also go into the girl from St. Mary who committed suicide after being raped by several ND football players.
I don’t want to come off as insensitive to true rape victims but some of these allegations amount to a female making a conscious decision to get inebriated and then makng a decision in a state of less than 100% capacity to have sex and then feeling taken advantage of afterwards. Now, morally speaking, any guy that consciously takes advantage of a female’s state of inebriation is wrong, but from a legal standpoint it is difficult to say at what point or BAC level a yes from a female shouldn’t be treated as a yes. What if the male is also at some level of intoxication? Why should he be legally responsible for his actions when intoxicated but she shouldn’t be?
sexual assault covers a lot of actions
I don’t think that’s okay or appropriate. I also think it’s easy to prosecute. If you’re inebriated, you can’t say yes. While people very often do drunk sex, this is a good protection against bad encounters. If both people liked it, nobody says shit.
If the male and female are both inebriated, then if both parties had a consensual(at less than full mental capacity) sexual encounter, then why should the male be the only party charged? In that scenario, shouldn’t both parties be charged if one makes an allegation against the other?
Because the woman said she was raped, and we do owe an obligation to at least start with the assumption that she is charging so with good faith.
From a legal standpoint, the assumption should be that the accused is innocent until proven otherwise. Of course, as with any allegation, it is incumbent on the police to do a thorough investigation.
If it was that simple, then the victims claim that they did not consent to intercourse would be enough to convict.
We can start with the acccused being innocent. Being investigated or even charged with rape is just not the end of the world. Especially for normal guys, it’s easy not to get charged with rape, or if some crazy woman does, to defend yourself adequately.
Most of the time, this concern is fundamentally protective of rapists. Allowing ourselves to be inconvenienced by the necessity of defending ourselves is a small price to pay for dealing with actual sexual predators out there.
It’s not being “protective of rapists.” It’s being protective of the proper exercise of the judicial system.
That is a difficult argument to make without sounding like an asshole, but you did it.
I read the transcript from the hearing held in front of a judge. The judge asked Winston directly, “Why did you believe she wanted it?” and the answer under oath was “…’cause she was moaning.” The victim did admit to being under the influence of alcohol, as was Winston. I think his BMOC stature and her self-admitted compromised state of mind were enough for a Tallahassee judge to throw the case out. But I believe the woman.
Yeah it’s crazy, and i don’t really know how you handle it. A lot of these kids aren’t animals they’re just kids, who are probably acting under the influence and questionable things happen. Part of the issue is that a sexual assault conviction is basically a life sentence for the perpetrator. Is that something you do to a 20 yr old kid/ a 17 year old kid? At the same time no one should have to be a victim and be told “oh well” because of the reasons above. I think, for college kids there’s gotta be (A) openness (when people report it should be taken seriously) but (B) the punishments have to be escalating focusing on training education initially before it’s a “permanent record” thing.
Generally on college campuses you get treated with kids gloves for a lot of stuff, alcohol use including under age drinking, drug use, fighting and other disciplinary things are handled internally at the university (many schools have campus police for this reason i think).
serial offenders should be treated like normal adults and punished by the school and the judicial system.
I will say, at my undergrad there was an issue with people stealing food at the student center. When they wanted to do something about it they caught someone and had them arrested by the real police. I don’t know what happened to the person but i was front page campus news. Maybe that’s what needs to happen.
One of the solutions is proper sex education for young men. We’re seeing some advances of this in places (private schools like Friends schools in Philly) and dramatic rollbacks to a dumber age in others (Texas, Oklahoma, et cetera).
Yeah i don’t know what people are thinking re: sex ed in certain states, education is a good thing.
They’re thinking “why’s it smell so a bad? Maybe it’s because my face is jammed up my rectum.”
I would like to do that to a 17 to 20 year old kid. I’m all about getting rid of over-sentencing, mandatory min. sentencing, all that great stuff for non-violent, “victim-less” crimes. This is not that. Not to be a dick, but that type of thinking is exactly why we are in the situation we are in with sexual assault. The scars from a sexual assault last for a lifetime, I know this first-hand. Sending the message that everything will be okay if you sexually assault someone, and that you’ll get over it in a couple of years, the same as you would stealing some condoms or getting in a fight, is absurd.
A slap on the wrist would be a hell of a start, considering universities hardly ever do that in the first place, but I’ve seen cases where the PTSD from a sexual assault leaves women worse off then that of Iraq war veterans.
I would really recommend seeing this if you get a chance. The statistics, cases, and stories will honestly blow your mind.
FSU responds victim’s civil case: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/jameis_winstons_accuser_files.html
Great plug for a timely story. When two behemoths like the NCAA and the NFL have so many resources invested to mute this message, it is hard for me to imagine that talk can accomplish much at all. When the NFL recognizes that its future is not tied to the NCAA, and that it’s very survival may depend on cutting all ties with that sorry excuse for an associate of education, only good things can happen. The term “student-athlete” was coined to justify the blatant debasing of the student in order to promote and feed upon the glory of the athlete. Our economy has been a consumer-based juggernaut for the past 70 years, and in that time, the concepts of education and educators have been bastardized in the name of economic necessity. Consumerism and sports have common affiliations and interests, but consumerism and education is a recipe for an obese, coddled, misinformed and indifferent society. We are the present-day Rome that sees enemies at every turn, and never looks inward.
Has anybody noticed the proliferation of “institutions of higher learning”? This is not indicative of intellectual activity. It is clever entrepreneurs exploiting a grotesque lack of vision. When teachers in kindergarten must compete with the TV and media in all its forms for the attention and respect of the tots, who can be surprised that rapes are being covered up in universities? If you take away the trillions of dollars generated by uncompensated athletes, a huge chunk of these institutions would close their doors in a heartbeat.
Our society is at a stage where it is no longer shocking to learn that money buys its own science, produces its own data, and sells its bullshit to a confused and distracted public that is too exhausted to keep track of who’s selling a lie and who can be trusted. This is a catastrophic result of the failure of education. Our society will only regain its footing, I believe, if education is shorn of its profiteers. Pulling the plug on the NCAA would be an excellent place to start.
wow. while you make points that i agree with it’s hard to take any of them seriously the way they are presented in this rant.
I haven’t watched the documentary but the presence of his DNA simply proves the two parties had sex, not whether it was consensual or not. Of course, there may be or may not be other evidence supporting that the alleged victim was raped.
Another issue. I tried to bring up the Winston case as an in to discussing this issue. But it doesn’t change the fact that, and I seriously want everyone to think about this amazing statistic…ONE IN FIVE WOMEN WILL BE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AT LEAST ONCE DURING THEIR TIME ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS.
Let me state that again:
ONE IN FIVE WOMEN WILL BE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AT LEAST ONCE DURING THEIR TIME ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS.
Regardless of the Winston case, it doesn’t change the fact that this is a major issue.
I would highly recommend watching this to get her side of the story. I’m not going to get into a specifics debate about that case, that’s nothing something I want to do here. I’m just trying to raise some awareness, and I felt that that example would assist in tying it to these boards.
Thats pretty messed up.. In other words there are 1 in 5 rapists during there time at college?
sexual assault =/= rape.
Didn’t a young lady from Virginia provide a compelling story of a Frat rape that turned out to be false? Didn’t the Duke La-cross team get suspended due to a lady claiming some guys at the team’s party rape her, only to find out a year or so later that she made it up?
Do rapes occur on campus, and from high profile players? Absolutely!!! Was Sandusky a Pediophile, and did Pappa Joe and others at Penn look the other way?; yeah, that was proven. I’m not surprised a University would want to cover anything up.
Rape and false accusations of rape destroys people’s lives.
Is Winston a punk spoiled kid? His behavior seems to indicate that. I wouldn’t want him on my team, but it’s hard for me to pass judgement on a guy who, 1) has tons of hot chicks that want to hook up with him, and it seems to be a he said / she said type of story.
I’ll watch the movie, but I don’t think this lady was able to prove that he forced himself on her (did she have evidence of bruises, cuts, etc…?). I watched the Jodie Foster movie. Was it wrong what happened to that lady? Yes. Here’s an idea, how about teaching our daughters not to put themselves at risk by going to places and associating with people who will compromise them? It’s not just the sons who need to be educated.
how is it that Gurley is going to be the number 1 RB in the draft, and is expected to be great in the NFL after that gnarly knee injury, we wanted to give Maclin money to stay here after his 2 ACL injuries, but we can’t get over Bradford having his knee injuries. RB and WR are much more demanding on the knee I would think.. aren’t ACL’s repaired better then ever now? why can’t Bradford be ok? and he is off the turf now too.
if not knee he’s also had a history of shoulder injuries.
geez. like barkly and sanchez and foles with his collar bone
Jeremy Maclin has missed 21 games in 96 possible games (6 seasons), for a percentage of roughly 20 percent.
Sam Bradford has missed 31 games in 80 possible games(5 seasons), for a percentage of roughly 40 percent, but at a position that arguable requires less athleticism, is notoriously protected by the league and therefore should get hit less.
Meanwhile Maclin is young, has played above average his entire career and is coming of a career year. Sam Bradford has been mediocre at best throughout his career when he wasn’t injured, even if he played for a shitty team(Lets just magicall ignore that Reids last 2 years here was 8-8 and 4-12).
Its not that we brought in an injured player, but an injured player who sucks.
I don’t think he will suck on this team.
he has skills.
I disagree. Sam Bradford does not any skills that leads me to think he can be an NFL QB capable of winning the Super Bowl, and while I dont think he will suck, i’d would surprise me massively if he managed to play to a leve anyone would call more than fine, average, mediocre, decent etc. even if he somehow managed to pull a miracle and stay healthy.
My guess is that he plays OK this year, we give him a big contract, he plays just enough snaps in ’16 to make us think he actually has potential before getting injured for the season. He comes back mediocre and struggles with injuries and being average until a drafted player replaces him and we eventually cut him.
wait are you a Joe Webb fan too? your writing sounds awfully familiar.
Who the fuck is Joe Webb? Isn’t that the QB who beat us on that tuesday night game against Minnesota and started a playoff game against the Packers? If thats who you compare Bradford to, id be creaming my pants too, since that guy couldnt throw the ball, like, at all.
Joe Webb is a long-running joke on Iggles Blitz.
One outspoken commenter is of the opinion that Mr. Webb could have been the greatest QB the NFL has ever seen, if only he had been given the chance by the visionless, inept, and likely racist decision makers.
As you can imagine, he has an uphill battle winning support for his view.
So you’re saying that a healthy Bradford will play as well as a healthy Maclin did in Kelly’s offense?
Good deal.
nothing mediocre about Bradfords play during the season leading up to his last injury… he was on pace to have an impressive season especially considering the offensive slop he had around him
No, it doesn’t take much to watch Bradford throw and say to yourself, ” Hey, that guy throws a great ball.” I’ll agree that he is injury prone but to say he sucks is ignorant. To not take into account the slop he had at receiver and o-line while in STL is not looking at the whole picture.
also McDaniels and Brian Schottenheimer as OC’s.
Watch Sam Bradford play. Then watch Andrew Luck, who in no way is as flawless as the medie portrays him, play.
I agree that “sucks” was a strong term, as metioned below mediocre, average, decent is more precise, but there is nothing even remotely impressive about Sam Bradfords NFL career. Andrew Luck, who by the way also plays for a shitty team in a shitty division, is different. Andrew Luck has shown that he might end up leading a team to a Championship. Sam Bradford…Not so much.
I get Chips point about availability, theres a reason Bradford was available and Luck won’t see FA for at least 10 years, but if I need flour to make bread but its sold out, I dont buy sugar and say fuck it, it’ll do.
great analogy.
Using the best QB prospect in a generation as your measuring stick of what success is?
That’s flawed logic.
wasn’t SB a Luck-level prospect when he came out?
No.
Very good? Yes.
More than worth pick 1? Yes
Luck level? Heck no.
Consensus opinion was that Luck was the best QB prospect since Elway or Peyton.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000481421/article/eagles-had-2010-sam-bradford-on-par-with-peyton
That’s great, welcome to PR 101.
Also he could have been the best QB since Peyton, and still inferior as a prospect to Luck.
If only had spend a couple years studying marketing at a top 20 business school in the world before I switched to law, maybe I could understand PR. Oh, wait a minute…
Dont condescend me friend, you undoubtable know more about football than me, but im a pretty intelligent guy too.
business to law? I’m questioning the intelligence in that move 🙂
Do you think its coincidence that the section sign is the same key as the dollar sign on most keyboards? A man gotta turn §§§ into $$$.
SB? SuperBowl and Sam have the same initials like Chip Kelly the Crip Killer.
You’re a draft guy, tell me, how did people describe Sam Bradford when he entered the league?
Besides, the point is if you watch Sam Bradford play, calling him great or special is in my opinion wildly inaccurate, because it takes nothing but common logic to see the huge difference between a guy who has it and a guy who hasn’t shown that he does.
In the NFL you’re not questioning whether you have a QB. You either do or you dont. The Colts does, we dont.
Good arm, quick decisions, distributes ball well, high IQ.
You’re basing you’re opinion on what specifically? The handful of Rams games you’ve halfheartedly watched since 2010? A couple of youtube clips?
As to your final point, this completely invalidates a players ability to improve over time. Players get better. Also nothing in the NFL is binary.
Has Sam Bradford shown you a good arm, quick decisions etc in the NFL?
If he had, he would have played better, i’m seeing average, and as Andy Dalton has shown, average doesn’t do too hot in the post season.
I’d love to be wrong, but we exchanged 2 QBs who might not have been similar, but very comparable in terms of NFL production, but the Rams got the younger guy and a 2nd round pick, only to count on Sam Bradford to get better? Right there you’re agreeing that if Sam Bradford doesn’t get better, we do not have a QB?
If Sam Bradford and the offense stay healthy, he’s going to be in the conversation for OPOTY. He’s going to win comeback player of the year, and we’re going to be challenging for a bye.
You’re forgetting this is a system that made terribly horribly super average Nick Foles look like a greek god.
It made Mark Sanchez of all people put up a more than respectable stat line and go 3-3.
Sure Sam Bradford could fall apart and go to hell, but smart money is on him coming in to a system that suits his abilities, with better talent around him, and him blossoming.
Sam Bradford is no Andy Dalton.
Sam Bradford is no Nick Foles.
If healthy Sam Bradford is the QB we need.
I get your point, I really do, but my stance is still, I haven’t seen Sam Bradford show anything to warrant the beginning statement. If Bradford had been healthy or anything more than decent, he would not play for the Eagles. The Rams would not have traded him for a 2nd and horribly average Nick Foles.
Thats where my comparison to Andrew Luck comes in. Bradford might not have been the same procspect, but you’re telling me he will do what Luck did, which is to make a horrible Colts team into a contender, while their defense, OL, RBs are pretty bad, Fleener and Allen are promising at TE, and outside of the very good TY Hilton have really bad WRs, and Luck did that. Even if Bradford doesnt have to be AS good as Luck, i still can’t see him doing what you describe.
I can very well see our defense being massively improved, see us running the ball on every single opponent with Murray, Mathews, Sproles and see Bradford being a game manager like Alex Smith. That could very well get us into the playoffs, where we will lose just like a team with Alex Smith or Andy Dalton or Jay Cutler will. Having someone decent won’t do, having someone who manages the game won’t do. You need Andrew Luck, you need Aaron Rodgers, you need Tom Brady, or in worst case scenario, you need your Joe Flacco or Eli Manning to step up and play like those guys, even though they haven’t done it consistently throughout the season.
I dont see any comparison to the great guys and i have no basis to count on Bradford doing what Eli or Flacco did.
Which leads us back to, you either have a QB or you dont, and if you dont you’re irrelevant. Do we have QB?
Your answer to the question is obvious. It also raises another obvious question: how do you propose we avail ourselves of a REAL QB®? If the only hope is to have a great one, all the great ones are locked up, and a former first overall pick has no hope of becoming one, what do we do?
Not trading away draft picks for injured mediocrity would be a place to start.
Your are still just speaking against what we have done. I asked what you would do.
I can’t imagine this whole conversation is leading to the grand conclusion that Nick Foles and a 2016 second round pick is our ticket to the QB promise land.
too bad we already had injured mediocrity as the qb
that’s funny. but what if the flour isn’t sold out there is a bag that was ripped and has been sewn up. it can still be really good flour and you can have your bread and eat it too
I think you’re taking the analogy further than it can carry.
well I liked the analogy.
we need a qb and Bradford is a qb so your not just getting something you don’t need…like sugar instead of flour
AND, what if the flour in question had a few bad reviews on Amazon from people who tried to use it as an all purpose flour, when clearly the makeup of this particular flour is only suited to bread making? Since you want to make bread, why would you care that this flour didn’t work well to thicken someone else’s gravy?
PLUS, you already have a system ready to repackage the flour when you get it home. The new package has been shown to be more durable and you have people on staff who will constantly monitor your flour container to make sure it stays properly sealed and positioned in the pantry correctly when it is not being used.
(Now the analogy has been taken too far.)
and then you mix the flour with a super smoothie and out pops Sam Bradford going deep to Jordan Mathews right into the oven.
we ain’t making sour dough, this is pumpernickel
I heard Chip doesn’t like pumpernickel.
haha you got me there
yes let’s draft Luck!! I’m in.
No there is nothing impressive about his career but you made it sound like him, as a qb was bad, which I simply disagree with. Luck, at the very least had Hilton and Wayne. Bradford didn’t even have that, although he did have Jackson. As D3FB noted, look at who the OCs were. I have complete faith in Chip making Bradford a monster, if he can stay healthy.
people think Sam’s knee wont be strong enough to take a 3 step drop…LOL
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/steubers-2015-nfl-mock-draft-20-eagles-land-wr
I NEED this draft to happen.
Winston to the Redskins? I NEED that in my life, that locker room and team would explode if they go RGknee vs Jameis the Rapist in training camp. I would demand that they have to do hard knocks.
While I believe the chatter about GM’s rethinking Winston, I don’t see Lovie Smith picking a prospect who will ride the bench for a season or more. Tampa has not been a franchise of innovation when it comes to their offense, and I still believe Tampa picks Winston, baggage and all. I saw one mock that had Titans trading 2 to San Diego for Rivers. Mike McCoy has an excellent reputation for QB grooming – he actually got Tebow on track in Denver – and that might be a good place for MM to land. Don’t think either of these two slide to 5.
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 59s59 seconds ago
Classic draft misdirection: #Eagles scouts telling teams they view SE La QB Bryan Bennett as a safety. (Chip Kelly coached the QB at Oregon)’
Chip gunna Chip
Kinne plays safety sometimes on the scout team.
Thorton signed a one year contract
a “long term deal”?
No just saw he signed his RFA, so he gets 2.3 mill this year.
interesting there were reports of him and eagles working out an LTD, but i guess they couldn’t agree on numbers / length.
formality, they are still talking extension
Heh, something for consideration…
Zach Mettenberger most definitely paid a price for his sexual assault (and I doubt very much that that gripping someone else’ breast was the full extent of his offense) in terms of lost position at UGA and eventually in terms of lower draft pick than would ordinarily be the case. About the third or fourth round, rather than sixth. Despite all that, he’s managed to keep relatively clean at LSU (generated still a bad rep, though), and now in the pros, despite the selfie controversy.
Teams do manage to keep something of a grip on players, you know. Of course, there’s a lot of people to deal with, and only some interest in babysitting. They also do care about clear and present conduct issues. Randy Moss, Dan Marino, those come off the top of the head. They definitely ignore more minor clouds of bad character, eg Roethlisberger. It, perhaps, should be considered that, if what is assumed, that Winston is picked first, there was a clean bill of health, personality wise, given. No one is going to pick a Lawrence Phillips that plays QB no. one. Nobody’s that clueless or that oblivious to public sentiment. If Winston is picked, he will be picked with every expectation that things will blow over, one way or another.
what were Marino’s issues.
Out of control cocaine habit.
no wonder he played in miami
Is there any other kind?
there is a nun’s habit
Addiction is really about addictive personalities. Plenty of people out there who can handle a little nose candy without nasty tendencies to binging. Same as people who can handle alcohol and don’t become alcoholics.
Google
Just beneath, are a lot of entirely not related sites to ours, having said that, they may be surely worth going over.
The Latest “rumor Dejour”.. Is that personnel people around the league are telling Jaws that Chip says that he thinks Marcus will go on to win multiple SB’s?
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more reports that point to actions of a coach trying to help his kid get drafted as high as possible instead of the actions of a GM who is trying to pull off a power move..
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i dont ask for much.. I just ask that chip doesnt allow other GM’s to treat him like an amateur
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I just ask that when you sit down and try to work out an expensive deal to trade up for your golden boy, all I ask is that the GM you are negotiating with doesnt think you are negotiating out of complete desperation to where he has to have this kid AT all costs. I ask that the GM we are negotiating with doesnt think our GM thinks the kid has a Peyton Manning QB Brain. I prefer the GM we negotiate with doesnt think that Chip views the kid as someone who will win multiple superbowls..
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its bad enough that whether you want him or not, everyone will assume and say that you are desperate for the kid… Id prefer that you dont throw more gasoline on the fire and make insane compliments like these that we dont even hear every year…
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If Chip is really trying to trade for a kid who he goes around telling other front office execs league wide that he thinks can win multiple SB’s, god help us..I would hope our GM is smarter then that…. fortunately I think Jaws is full of shit, so this post is hypothetical.. to maintain my sanity, I will assume chip is smarter then that… The cost will already be crazy without the other GM thinking he is trading us the next Montana…smh
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If Chip is going to do the silly trade, just trade one first round pick each year for the next 12 years or however long it takes to pay up. dont trade players and try to avoid trading multiple draft picks in the same draft… try to spread the payment out over 3-4 years..
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if chip has any clue what he is doing, we will end up picking in the 20-25 range anyway for the next 5 years, and I hate picking in the 20-30 range, get stuck paying 1st round money to a 2nd round prospect…if he is going to trade for Mariota, just give up a first round pick each year for however long it takes. Leave our players alone
makes sense.
and you’re right you don’t go out of your way to talk up a guy unless you are just helping him, because he isn’t helping the chances of landing him that’s for sure.
Chip is all in on Bradford.
everyone is already going to assume you love the kid. and the media will ask you about him so you will have to talk him up.. But its one thing to say nice things about him when a reporter asks you, but WTF are you doing going around behind the scenes telling NFL front office people some extremely loafty praise that doesnt get thrown around casually every year?
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A GM’s job is to get players we can win with, and get them as cheap as we can (what we pay them, what we have to give up to get them etc.)
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I do think Chip is extremely bright, so Id rather give him the doubt then to take Jaw’s gossipy word for it…
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IF Chip is interested in trading up to the top of the first round for Mariota and making calls to the team’s there, is he revealing anything by saying he thinks Mariota is going to be great? Isn’t that inferred from his actions?
Put another way, did anyone think that Snyder (and whoever his puppet was at the time) did not believe that RG3 was going to be great and win multiple SBs, just because they didn’t say so publicly?
Of course not. When you try to move up for a particular player, your actions say you think he will be great. Saying it in public gives nothing away.
A_T_G is right on. Chip is praising a player he respects. It’s a tip of the hat respect. Not that complicated because Chip is a straight up guy.
If folks think Chip’s a fool for not gaming the draft process, then Chip will just give them the finger. He really does not give a Sh*t.
For what it’s worth, Chip’s “multiple Super Bowls” comment came back in January of 2013 during his initial NFL coaching interviews… as opposed to this off-season.
“People in contact with Kelly through his initial NFL coaching interviews say he gushed about Mariota even way back then, calling him the most talented player he had ever worked with, a tremendous kid and glowing quarterback whom Kelly believed ‘would win multiple Super Bowls.'”
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25094236/breaking-down-the-bills-eagles-trade-from-each-teams-perspective
CSN’s the recent draft predictions for rd 1:
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Derrick Gunn….Landon Collins “best safety in the draft, eagles have a big need at safety”….LOL I see you are really earning that paycheck this week…
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Rueben…. Jalen Strong,..
Stueber has Perriman FWIW
He WISHES!!!! That kid will get drafted closer to #10 then #20, unfortunately,…. Love to have him…
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if they take a WR at #20, I assume it would be strong or Agholar, unless Devante falls to #20…. Id Rather have Perriman over all 3 of those WR
And as we discussed not wanting a character problem like Winston, Lawrence Phillips reappears in the news to remind us why.
@ T Lawlor….Tom, you asked for feedback….no disrespect intended but you said you are disgusted by Winston? Can’t stand him? How bout Kiko Alonso? Any problem there?
Linebacker Kiko Alonso, suspended for the Ducks’ 2010 season because of a DUI arrest, has been charged in Oregon with burglary, criminal mischief and criminal trespass after his arrest Sunday in Lane County, according to local reports.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6464610
How bout Bryan Braman?
West Texas A&M senior defensive end Bryan Braman has been suspended indefinitely from the team after he was charged with manufacturing a controlled substance – hallucinogenic mushrooms, authorities said.
http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-10-12/west-texas-am-football-player-faces-drug-charges
Allegations vs charged and arrested……..you asked for opinions….you said “the rape allegations bothers me tremendously”…..bothered by allegations….how do you feel about charges filed and arrest for burglary, criminal trepass and drug manufacturing and dealing?
The Absent Game
Amongst me and my husband we have owned much more MP3 players through the years than I can count, including Sansas, iRivers, iPods (traditional & touch), the Ibiza Rhapsody, etc. But, the last few ages I’ve settled down to one line of players.