Culture Club
Posted: May 8th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 226 Comments »If Chip Kelly were a mom, there is no question what peanut butter he would buy for his family. Choosy moms choose Jif, after all. And you can use a lot of words to describe Kelly – maverick, genius, risk-taker – but choosy better be one of them.
Players need to have a certain size.
Players need to have a certain skill set.
Players sure as heck better fit into Kelly’s idea of a good football culture.
Paul Domowitch wrote a good piece this morning about the importance of players “buying in”.
Kelly wants players who are willing to “buy in” to his system and are smart enough and driven enough to take what he teaches them and use it to make themselves better players.
“For Chip, it’s about getting the right guys in place,” said ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay. “Every time I talk to Chip, the phrase he always uses is ‘guys that buy in.’ He brings it up every single time I’ve talked to him. He wants to make sure he has a roster full of guys that are buying in.
“Whether it’s the sleeping regimen or the nutrition or the mental aspect of it, he feels like now, more than ever as the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, he has players in place that buy into what they want to do there and that, moving forward, are on the same page.”
One of the most important books on Kelly’s bookshelf isn’t Bill Walsh’s “Finding the Winning Edge” or Vince Lombardi’s “What It Takes To Be No. 1” or Tony Dungy’s “Quiet Strength.”
It’s Carol Dweck’s “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success.” Dweck never coached football. She’s a 68-year-old Stanford psychology professor who teaches courses on personality and social development.
Her book, published in 2008, deals with growth mindset vs. fixed mindset, which you probably don’t care about, but is at the heart of what Kelly is looking for in the players he is bringing into the Eagles organization and many of the ones he is weeding out.
A fixed mindset, according to Dweck, is believing that all of your qualities, including intelligence and ability, are carved in stone and can’t change in any meaningful way, which she says results in “trying to convince yourself and others that you have a royal flush when you’re secretly worried it’s a pair of 10s.”
A growth mindset, she wrote, is believing that “the hand you’re dealt is just the starting point for development. Growth mindset is based on the belief that your basic qualities are things you can cultivate through your efforts.
“Do people with this mindset believe that anyone can be anything, that anyone with proper motivation or education can become Einstein or Beethoven? No, but they believe that a person’s true potential is unknown [and unknowable]; that it’s impossible to foresee what can be accomplished with years of passion, toil and training.”
Kelly referenced growth mindset vs. fixed mindset last week when he was talking about his first-round pick, Agholor, who is the son of Nigerian immigrants.
“He’s just dialed in as a football player,” Kelly said. “He’s in the Jordan Matthews category in terms of his approach to the game. Always striving to get better. I think the great thing about Nelson is he has a growth mindset and not a fixed mindset.
“He’s one of those guys that’s really a student of the game. I think you get excited when you’re around guys like that. He’s just trying to soak up everything that you can spit out in terms of being able to give him coaching points. He’s always trying to get better, whether it’s from a physical standpoint, improving himself physically, or a route-running standpoint, or just a mind standpoint in terms of how to run routes, how to do things and how he fits into the [offensive] scheme.
“He’s exactly what we’re looking for in a football player.”
Think about how important visits have been for draft picks. Kelly drafted Bennie Logan and Matt Barkley in 2013 in part because he loved the meetings they had with those guys at the Combine. In 2014 all of the Eagles draft picks were guys who made visits to the NovaCare except one…Josh Huff, who Kelly recruited and coached at Oregon.
Every player drafted this year came to the NovaCare for a pre-draft visit.
It is crucial for Kelly to get to know the players he is drafting. This isn’t to say he’s got to love them personally or they have to be choirboys, but the players have to be the right type. They must fit in. They must buy in.
There is a lot to be said for this kind of thinking. Football is the ultimate team game. Players must function well together. They need to be on the same page. This is true whether talking about stars or players that are on the fringe of the roster. If you have the right type of character guys, this happens more easily than if you have individualistic players.
We talk about how teams that “win the offseason” don’t always do well in the actual season. This is often due to the fact that the players have strong individual talent, but they lack the chemistry and cohesion to play well as a group. This isn’t baseball where you can just plug ‘n play guys. It is much harder for new players to fit in on a football team.
While all of this does sound good and make a lot of sense, that doesn’t mean it will work. Chip Kelly’s ideas might not pan out the way he wants them. No one questions whether he can win in the NFL. But can he win big? Can he build a legitimate title contender?
I don’t think we’ll get the answer this year. I think Kelly needs one more year of roster building before we’ll have a good idea of whether he can win or win big. Obviously the health of the team and the play of the QBs will be crucial, but even flawed teams can have the right vibe. The 2002 Eagles had Koy Detmer and AJ Feeley start the final 6 games of the season. The team went 5-1 and won 3 of those games by 13 or more points. That team had the right feel, but not the right QBs.
We’ll start to get a feel for Kelly’s ideas and how they are working on this team. Longtime Eagles Trent Cole and Todd Herremans are gone. That leaves a leadership void. There is a new QB. Jeremy Maclin and Nate Allen weren’t vocal leaders, but were highly experienced starters. One of them could be replaced by a rookie. The other, well that’s still a mystery. More and more, this is becoming Kelly’s team.
Here is the projected lineup for now:
WR Nelson Agholor
WR Riley Cooper
WR Jordan Matthews
RB DeMarco Murray
QB Sam Bradford
TE Brent Celek
LT Jason Peters
LG Evan Mathis
OC Jason Kelce
RG Allen Barbre
RT Lane Johnson
DE Fletcher Cox
NT Bennie Logan
DE Cedric Thornton
LB Brandon Graham
IB Mychal Kendricks
IB DeMeco Ryans
LB Connor Barwin
S Malcolm Jenkins
S Jaylen Watkins or Earl Wolff
CB Byron Maxwell
CB Walter Thurmond or Eric Rowe
12 of those guys are Kelly players. You can argue that Thornton and Cooper are Kelly guys because they didn’t become full-time starters until he took over. Kendricks and Cox only played one year for Andy Reid and are now entering Year 3 for Kelly. Ryans only played a year for Reid, and either he or Kendricks could be replaced by Kiko Alonso.
Kelly wasn’t trying to run off Reid guys. Trent Cole would still be here if younger. Same for Herremans. Maclin just got offered too much money. Obviously Kelly has strong feelings for some of the high quality guys that Reid left in place. He flat out loves Celek, Kelce and Ryans.
Building a high character team is nothing new. Kelly goes beyond that and is very specific with the fit he is looking for. I’m really curious to see if this works as he expects or if Kelly is too limiting and passing on talented players is going to come back to haunt him.
There is no magic formula for building a winner in the NFL. You just need to find the right guys to make your ideas work. Kelly wants players to buy in to his ideas. Fans just want guys that will help the Eagles win games.
2015 is going to give us an idea of whether or not Kelly is headed in the right direction.
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You made me hungry for a club sandwich.
I bet Tommy has a growth mindset around Megan Fox, am I right guys?
I don’t think he’s quite as picky as you think. He didn’t cut Jackson right away. He only traded shady when his production dropped off. He couldn’t corded who would be in each round of the draft. He considers character more than other coaches, true, but I don’t think he ignores talent, at all.
I never said he ignores talent. He just wants high character talent. That can be harder to come by.
Yes, but your argument is easier to refute if I misstate It.
How many dB’s do you see the eagles carryog this year? O think. We can all agree that maxwell Jenkins Rowe thurmond Carroll and maragos are locks. That’s 6 roster spots. That leaves a sizable group fighting over 4 or 5 spots. If boykin doesn’t get traded I think he’s a lock. Watkins and Wolff probably should both be here. That’s nine players with shepherd Evans Reynolds prosinski(special teams demon) and couplin(high hopes) fighting for 1 or 2 spots. This depth is going to pay off in a big way in terms of finding out who can really play. Tc and preseason games are going to be interesting
I think one of the Shepherd or Evans get the 10th spot if they can contribute on ST.
It’s interesting to see that some concepts that Kelly brought in its first year today have been better explained to us.
Kelly seems to get more flack than most new head coaches. They all turn the roster over. Maybe it’s because Kelly is more articulate about what he wants and too many people don’t get it.
It’s because we are a big market team and immediately when someone says Chip Kelly the article gets more read. Do people want to read about Quin in ATL or Kelly in Philly? It’s simply a media thing.
It’s also because alot of new coaches change the roster over, but they didn’t do it in the same surprising manner and speed in which Kelly did it. People are fools for saying what Kelly is doing with the roster turnover is drastic and foolish. Every new coach does it. It’s just that Kelly did it in a faster different way.
A lot of franchises draft the best players they can, and they build around them. Problem is “the best player you can get” isn’t always GOOD ENOUGH to win with…. Chip doeamt care about your past accomplishment or individual greatness.. This was a man that said “when looking for players it’s not just about what a player can and will do for you, it’s also about what they are willing to Sacrafice”… For me that quote says it all…
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Chip ISNT afraid to get rid of really good players, if there is a ceiling to the success you can have with those players. Shady has had a hall of fame left tackle and still hasn’t shown up in the playoffs or win a single playpff game..and the star runningbacks who win late in the playoffs every year look NOTHING like shady. They are usually the big power backs who play late in January..
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Well, Kelly won 10 games in each of his first 2 years, with players he wasn’t entirely happy with, and some significant injuries. So the sour grapes types have to come up with something to carp about. Don’t worry though. The same thing happened to several Super Bowl-winning coaches in the past. Look up Air Coryell. He was called a ‘mad scientist’ too, but changed the game anyway.
I don’t see the big deal in “passing on talented players.” Plenty of talented players fail because they don’t have the right mindset. On the other hand, plenty of players who never stood a chance are able to succeed because they work their asses off.
Talent only gets you so far. Technique, culture, and preparation trump talent 9 times out of 10. Talent helps to cover up mistakes though. The best corners are technically sound and dedicated to their craft. What makes them special on top of that is their athletic ability to make up ground or jump for a ball. Just using that as an example.
I think Chip Kelly wants to remove variables. Technique and preparation are reliable. Discipline and culture are reliable. Talent and motivation are flakey.
McCoy was a variable. Would he hit the hole or not? DeMarco will hit it and hit it hard and is not a drop off in terms of talent.
Which leads me to another point.
I don’t think it’s an issue of talent or character. Chip brings in guys with both. Part of the reason we are so excited for Matthews and Agholor is because they are extremely high character guys AND they are talented. Is that not enough to bust the theory that Chip doesn’t value talent?
I believe Chip is building something special.
100% true. The big question is always if you can harness that wild talent. Cowboys got lucky with Dez Bryant, but how often does teams get burned by the great talent with so and so motivation.
Hopefully no players so ignorant, immature and pathetic, that they can’t take being fired without baselessly pulling the same Lame, tired, Race Card.
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In fairness to shady, it’s probably even more pathetic, when a fully grown, mature man like Tra Thomas can’t hand being fired without being so pathetic..
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Tom Herremans is a minority in the NFL, was drafted by the Eagkes and was here much longer, why could he get fired without crying bloody murder? Smh smack in the face to older african Americans that had to endure disgusting times so that little shitheads like shady can act a fool, cry racism the one time someone tells him he is great but not great enough to win with, ATleast Not at 12mil a year…
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When you hear these young babies like Jordan or Agholor sound more mature, and sound like they get it more then our past 27year old Stars ever did, it’s hard to argue against what chip is trying to build..
Pure speculation here, but I bet if you drilled down on the theme, the two things that most bother the people who think there is some race bias in the Kelly regime are: (1) Cooper got rewarded with a new contract after his bullshit, and (2) there’s a disproportionately low number of black assistant coaches. Not saying that either of these things indicates race bias. It’s impossible for any of us to know, and it’s not fair to assume. But it’s tough to argue that the McCoy trade was race-related, especially since he was replaced by not one, but two black RBs.
I’d bet the players who would have thought like that are all gone by now.. Not for that REASON, but because THAT reason shows other weak character flaws that chip probably wants no parts of..
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For example, for shady, getting traded or cut is Embarressing. It’s like a girl publically breaking up with him. pulling the lame, bullshit, patjetic, unwarranted race card is basically a fundamental Lack of accountability. He couldn’t fathom why after everything the great shady did, chip would get rid of him. You didn’t hear him say maybe I could have done something better, take the sleeping more serious, be less selfish on game day, be a better team mate, stop dancing as much.. No, the Great shady McCoy couldn’t imagine why anyone would get rid of him, so he pulled the race card…. Take the race out of it, that lack of accountability, is exacty what you don’t win championships with.. The great shady had a hall of fame left tackle yet he never ONCE showed up in a playoff game. never put us on his back and willed us to win,,, and when you look at the RBs still playing late into JAnuary, they don’t look like shady. The backs that make deep playoff runs are physical, power backs,,,or small backs who are exceptiona,pass catchers like westbrook, Sproles, Shane Vereen and Faulk
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Looking at this current roster, I can’t poïnt to any players and envision them agreeing with shady.. The Cary Williams types are gone,,
I really don’t understand the “he kept Cooper so he is racist” narrative? Because Cooper is white we kept an inferior WR? We cut white players all the time… Or is it that because Riley Cooper got caught saying that ugly word, chip is so racist that he loves and admires Riley for calling a black man that disgusting word to his face? Or is it that Kelly is the secret Grand Wizard and the Philadelphia Eagkes are a front for the KKK? In the basement of Novacare chip holds these secret KKK rally’s?
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It’s so ridiculuos.., Bill Bellichek cuts great black players all the time, but when he does it, he is a Genius, or its “the Patriot way”… Bellichek cut hall of fame Moss, is he Racist? Just cut hall of fame Wilfork? Replaced him with white Navy Long snapper? When Bellicheat does it, it’s The Patriot way, when Chip does it its Chip KKKelly
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You know what’s really telling about why shady is an idiot chip didnt want? He goes to the media and cries that chip wamts “Control” of his team? Stop the presses, HEAD Coach WANT CONTROL OF HIS TEAM, who would have ever heard of such a strange crazy concept? Who the fuck does shady think he is that the Headcoachs of the Philadelphia Eagles SHOULDNT WANT FULL CONTROL? The fact that shady is so dumb that he thinks saying this is putting chip kelly down tells you all about why shady ISNT hre, why chip sees him as a great player who won’t ever win anything
I agree with most of this. And the narrative ignores that, by all accounts, Vick was one of the guys who stuck up for Cooper. He may have been cut without Vick’s support. But I can also see how it’s hard for guys to get over what Cooper said. And if you think you haven’t been treated fairly and you look at the roster and see this below-average guy who used a word that white people just can’t say, I can see how it would piss you off.
is there any chance that riley cooper, ol flo rida boy actually uses that word with his buds white and black and it wasn’t tossed out as an insult but as a firm assessment of his peer ??
Dude, he said it with Rage when he was about to get into a fight with a bunch of black dudes,.
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Now one can argue that when you are drunk and flip out your true colors come out… I kind of Believe the opposite. Riley was in a state of Rage where he wanted to Physically beat a man into a bloody pulp..when you are at that level of Rage that you want to do a bodily harm to another human being, you probably will look to anything you can say that will sting that human the most… I think it was way worse that Cooper was so drunk that he wanted to do bodily harm to another man, that him looking for words that would hurt the guy he wanted to beat up the worse….
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Riley wanted to beat up THAT black man, or that group of Black men.. If that guy happened to be a short fat white guy, he would have Probably said something about his weight. if he was gay he would have probably said something about his orientation,… He was trying to hurt another man, then it’s probably safe say that he is going to look for something hurtful to say… That doesn’t neccessarily mean Riley Hates black people, which is what it means to be racist… You can’t be racist and only hate certain black people… You are either Racist or you aren’t…Riley seems to have a lot of strong relationships with black players like Avant. It seemed Genuine. If Riley is in deed Racist then it means he pretends to be close with a guy like Avant, but when Avant leaves he then calls him an N behind his back… And I just don’t see that to be the case,.. Calling someone the most hateful word when you are trying to rip his face off probably isn’t the best indicator of your views and beliefs.. Just so happened the guy he wanted to kill at that moment was black… If he wasn’t black, he would have looked for the most hateful thing he could possibly call him… To me THATS a far cry from hating an entire race of people because of skin color, which is what it means to be racist
well maybe so but maybe he was just pissed and yelled the most vile word he knew from his flo rida wild upbringing.
anyway what do I really care, im just watching from the stands
Shady’s reaction is completely embarrassing. No doubt about it.
I’d have to disagree with you that the eagles employ a disproportionately low number of black assistant coaches by looking at the diversity among our current coaches.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/coaches.html
I’m guessing the Eagles employ an average number of minority assistant coaches if not more than an average.
I meant high-level assistants, like position coaches or higher-level, of which I count one. Sorry for the imprecision. And again, I’m not saying that’s significant. But I could see how it would people who didn’t like the regime would read into it.
Yeah I’d agree with you there although I think that might almost be more of an NFL problem than a Chip Kelly problem since the NFL doesn’t have the best track record with minority coaches. But I’m sure some people won’t see it that way.
What’s funny is Tra Thonas got his two year coaching gig as part of the minority assistant program. chip was basically supporting the minority program in his first two years in the NFL.. Gave Tra his first coaching Gig, the second year he even moved him on the defensive side of the ball so he could get experiemce on offense and defense, then when they don’t bring Tra Thomas back in year 3 he pulls the Race Card? How pathetic can you be? At least shady is a kid.. Tra is a fully grown mature man, Chip can’t put together his roster or his staff without someone crying this crap? It’s pathetic, it makes us look ridiculous and Embarressing as a franchise. As if that Donkey Riley Cooper didn’t look bad enough, I’m just as Embarressed by shady and Tra being elite former Eagles
Assistant coaches seem to move around somewhat, so there may be 8 coaches of a particular race one year, and 5 the next, then back to 9 three years later. Personally, I notice things like a coach’s previous experience before their wrapping paper.
How many good high-level assistant coaches are there? The amount of non-white coaches is a problem in all of football.
Then I’d have to assume the number of non black players is also a problem in all of football.
It 100% is a problem
Cooper got awarded for buying into Kelly’s culture and been productive, not for been a racist.
I don’t know that I’d use the word “productive,” but sure. But you don’t see how a disgruntled black player could read into the situation?
My problem is that its almost like a sheep crying wolf so that when real racism occurs, we do not listen.
Maybe if McCoy wasnt a loudmouth, who most likely felt entitled because of his star status, I would listen.
Trent Cole and Jason Avant have said nothing, despite also getting cut, but those are also two guys Kelly would have kept had they been 3-5 years younger and had cost less
There are many degrees of racism, and, to be fair, we have no idea whether or to what degree it exists within the org. I think it’s an issue if players and staff perceive racism, but Shady’s dumbassery doesn’t prove there’s a perception.
Hard for me to think culture outweighs talent when I see Dez Bryant and the talented Cowboys getting better, the talent rich Seahawks come within 1 yard of back to back titles, and the Eagles winning 1 game against a team worth a darn, getting dominated in most of them.
I’d rather have the better players.
I’d argue that by far this is the most talented roster chip has coached in the NFL. Think how easy it was to make this roster in 2013, and what a dog fight it will be to make the 53 man roster this summer at some deep positions,,.
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Chip ISNT chosing culture over Talent. He just doesn’t settle for the talent that also doesn’t fit the culture
This.
Any coach that doesn’t like talent won’t make it. But you can get talented people that buy in and want to be a part of something bigger. That’s what CK is trying to build, and frankly, I think it’ll work.
Exactly.
It’s Agholor over DGB.
It’s Eric Rowe not Marcus Peters.
Connor Barwin instead of Greg Hardy.
I’m more worried about:
Jordan Matthews over Cody Latimer or Allen Robinson
Jaylen Watkins over Baushad Breeland
Marcus Smith over DeMarcus Lawrence
I don’t disagree with you. I like this team. I like this draft. It’s nice rooting for a team like this. It’s a treat listening to these guys, and this year’s class, talk football. They get it. Fuck, they get *life*.
But your comparisons are extreme. And the decisions based on the margins are what concern me. The assumption that a Jordan Matthews will work hard enough to overcome the talent gap between him and Cody Latimer / Allen Robinson and then some, to justify being picked before them.
I believe, but these are the things I think about. And I give Chip a lot of credit. Because he doesn’t just say “culture beats scheme,” he means it, and he’s trying to prove it.
We’re not going to find the next Jerry Rice any time soon. Sometimes it’s just easier to keep a talented idiot on a leash and hope that they’ll realize that their situation is their own destiny.
Jerry Rice was drafted by Walsh higher than his scouts had him rated, and his first year he had stone hands. Must have been a bust. Anyone who enjoys talent blossoming and growing, as mentioned above, is thankful the 49ers (and Rice) persevered.
Or thankful that Rice discovered stick’em.
Please explain on what basis you conclude that there’s a massive talent gap between Jordan Matthews and Cody Latimer, or between Jaylen Watkins and Bashad Breeland. I don’t see it. Those guys were all drafted more or less where they were projected to be taken and did not have ridiculously different measureables. Matthews has been a far more productive player in the NFL so far than Latimer has, and Breeland got on the field last year primarily because the Redskins’ secondary was terrible to begin with, got worse
after being hit with injuries, and the team sucked and was in developmental mode for most of the year. If Watkins was on that team I suspect he would’ve gotten just as much PT.
Baushad Breeland was more of a conceptual argument, but I liked him more than Watkins coming out. I think Watkins probably got the nod because of his versatility. I think both are good young players, and I’m excited to see Watkins at safety.
Cody Latimer was never going to play much as a rookie in Denver, but I think he’s a more talented player. More agile, better hands, better body control, and can play outside. I think Kelly took Matthews over him because of #culture and he knew he could scheme Matthews open in the slot, where his size was an advantage. I’m not down on Matthews at all, but Latimer has a higher ceiling.
My point was that when you value #culture as much as Chip does, you’ll inevitably pass on more talented players (on the margins), and then rely on your program / culture and that players work ethic / intelligence to make up the difference. It can obviously work, and I think it will, but I think as independent fans capable of critical thought, we should at least allow for the possibility that we might be at a *slight* disadvantage in terms of raw talent, at the expense of intangibles.
I can think this and still support the program / Chip / players. I’d rather root for good kids anyway, trust me. And if / when they win a Super Bowl, it will be that much more awesome.
The only one I liked more than the guy we took was Latimer over Matthews but Matthews has proved he is going to at least be a solid player in the league.
Robinson was probably the third best rookie WR on his own team.
I didn’t love Watkins but he was versatile and hella athletic you can do much worse in a CB. Breeland ran a 4.62 and was/is way too grabby. I didn’t like Breeland at all.
I rated Smith much much much higher than Lawrence (and I don’t think Lawrence is athletic enough to be an OLB for us).
Go root for them, if that’s what you like. Seems you rather have the team built your way.
We do not know if Dez Bryant is one or the other in terms of training and taking care of his body.
Take Kiko Alonso, DROY, he was suspended by Kelly in college for a DUI. Kelly almost traded for Dion Jordan.
I bet you that the Eagles wins more games than the Cowboys if both QBs are healthy (big question for both teams).
and you do not think Kelly wouldnt want Wilson, Sherman, Thomas and Chancellor on his team?
There is talent all across the league, and a great laboratory for talent without chemistry or cohesion is the ‘Skins. I love watching Dez, but think about the cost in providing an entourage to keep your star out of trouble. What is the message there? You too can have whatever you want – on the house – if you’re good enough. If we love you, we’ll make exceptions for you. That is the definition of distraction.
Tommy, who are the more talented players that you think Chip should have drafted this year that fit the Eagles? Character aside.
@TommyLawlor:disqus
Awesome you mentioned Carol Dweck. My wife does corporate training and Dweck is someone that she studies and uses within her presentations. CK is on a different level than most people in the NFL. He studies leadership and takes what works and always looks to improve. I told her about your article and she kind of lit up, and got interested in sports for a second. The fact that CK’s leadership style reflects some of what she teaches, she gets semi-excited about the Eagles.
Me personally, I’m happy to have someone like CK at the helm who is bringing a culture to the team. I agree with him that culture is important, because that’s where the most success (IMO) comes from.
I work in the tech industry and Google’s culture has made it one of the best places to work. The best teams I’ve seen (corporate/tech stuff) are the ones where the culture of the team leads to success (or efficiency) with the larger organization.
Well said! It’s amazing what one disgruntled employee can do to impact the moral of the team in any line of business/team.
But enough about T.O.
I blame McNabb and Reid. I sent T.O. 3 books for signing with money for return shipment. Signed them and paid for the return shipping, Returned my money as well. Then he went crazy. So I blame McCoy too.
I’ll say this about him… He was very interactive with the fans considering his level of celebrity.
Agree. He had his own message board and would respond to the fans. He was electric. He slept in his hyperbolic chamber to get healthy for the superbowl, He showed up and the Eagles organization (Banner/Reid) showed him no respect, as well as McNabb. Black on black crime. SNAFU.
TO had all the talent in the world, and frankly I blame Banner for TO’s issues. He definitely outplayed his contract, and frankly, he out-hustled his contract. He came in on a used-to-be-broken-foot and put up over 100 yards receiving in the superbowl. That at least deserved a “we’ll work out this contract thing.”
I also blame McNabb, but I’m in the minority when it comes to him.
How did TO out play his contract when he already had one of the best WR contracts in the NFL? The problem was Rosenhaus thought he could out play Banner, problem was Rosenhaus under estimated Banner in terms of stuborness which I find weird consider what happened with Trotter and Simon
So he wasn’t a head case before he came to Philly? I think Reid knew who he was getting.
Some info about a coach I admired for a long time.
“A low-keyed, self-assured person, Chuck (Nolll) was a teacher of “life’s lessons.” Almost to a man, his players will tell you, “I learned more from Chuck about life off the field than on.”
“Those describing Noll invariably use two words — “prepared” and “consistent.” No detail was so small as to escape his attention. Russell tells of a meeting with Noll in which the coach, after studying film, suggested that Russell “move his right foot two inches to the right and one inch back.”
“Noll was instructing punt returners on how to catch the ball. When most teams’ returners were using a variation of a Willie Mays basket catch, also using the chest to cradle the ball, Noll wanted his returners to catch the ball above their head in their hands. To add a little levity, Noll then made several catches behind his back. He also stressed returning all punts — “if only for inches.” During the 1977 season, the Steelers’ punt returners never signaled for, nor made, a fair catch.”
“One of Noll’s “Chuck-isms” was: “If you want to win, do the ordinary things better than anyone else does them day in and day out.”
The more I see of Chip, the more he reminds me of Chuck.
Practice how you play.
Special teams are as important as the other aspects of the game.
Culture of young men who have shown ‘stick-to-it-iveness’, whether football or education.
Having some interests off the field, to remember to breathe.
To piggyback on this just a bit, this culture thing is why Chip refused to throw the last game for draft position. Winners win, losers lose.
We agree. And during draft time we wished he had gotten a few spots higher, but at the end of the day his players want to play for him.
A whole second? There may be hope for my wife.
I love what Chip is doing. I fully back his philosophy for bringing in high character guys. I hope this sends a message to all football players and fans. From Pop Warner, Middle School, High School, College and the Pros.
This is something society needs. How can you fault him for wanting and supporting good, hardworking individuals? The NFL doesn’t care about players, they care about money. Only after the fact, does the NFL act like they give a crap about character. Money rules. Social pressure is the only reason they respond to major issues in the league.
Chip Kelly is proactive, not reactive. That is why I want him to be the Coach of the Eagles for a long time. He is special. Those that focus on money and greed, check yourself. And you know… go…
I think it’s a lot about how some guys are always thinking about how they can keep getting better and better and don’t ever think they already know everything.And this is what makes them more valuable than just their talent.
You hear the good players as they age, they keep getting smarter about the game. Once their athleticism isn’t where it once was, they start to learn how to play smarter and more efficient to make plays. Still staying a step ahead of the competition.
Yes, but why wait until they’ve started to slow down? If they have that attitude from the start they can be that much better.
My bad, I was trying to imply the good players have that mindset from the start, always looking to improve themselves from the start. Some just rely on their athleticism and once they get to the NFL, they think they have it made. Others are always looking to get better everyday despite age/size/experience.
When all is said and done this team succeeds or fails as a result of the play of Sam Bradford.
Chip is building this team with 2 if not 3 locomotives that can keep this team on track. That is why he is building the defense to be able to sustain momentum when an engine goes out.
and ST, and run game…explosive in every aspect is the ideal. score any time
Man I’m really irritated by tommy as of late. Right now is a time of vast information and subjects to be discussed. Tom has become extremely lazy dating back to the beginning of this year and has barely turned out any articles to keep up with all this information. You have a job Thomas, go do it. How can you have an entire group of readers and neglect them by not posting for days at a time. Your entire demeanor has changed from being a negedelphian to nothing but blind acceptance of every move. What happened to the old tommy. Who articulated thoughtful and relevant criticism? This blog has fell off in mighty fashion.
Go home, you’re drunk.
As bandwagon would say… I’m going to punch you in the face.
Actually the blog has it’s ups and downs, but has not FALLEN off in mighty fashion.
He has a job and IB isn’t it right now. If you’re upset that the quality isn’t as good as before then donate.
Instead of being selfish to be the sole beneficiary of ad revenues tommy should employ other writers if he’s too busy for the blog. Geagle if he learned how to type coherently would be a solid addition. At least he would keep the blog moving with new posts. Anders would be fine as well.
I recommend flexibility classes for you. I’ll even buy them.
So you can bend over and stick your head up your ass.
I believe it is the removal step that seems to be the issue.
Good point… since he has shit for brains.
I’ve read these posts twice each, convinced they were jokes, but…?
plug fell out.
You know, these are very poor quality posts for a newbie. Do you not want to be respected by the others here? It’s not necessary to agree with everything or be a total homer, but a newcomer might want to lead off with something positive.
I’ve got this!!!
http://carterwestpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/yoda-do-or-do-not.jpg
It seems we have let Dallas into our hearts, and Dallas has won, when such things are spoken of.
The beauty of this post is someone advocating for GEAGLE to start writing by a guy replying to one of his own posts.
I concur. Someone over at Birds 24/7 recently referred to this space as GEAGLEblitz, and I found it rather fitting. If you ran a word count of each of Tommy’s posts against the total comment-based responses of our true namesake, it wouldn’t even be close. Tommy is being outclassed, and should humbly reflect that in his stewardship going forward.
It’s GEAGLEs world, we’re just living it.
Zoom out from mksp typing at a computer into outer space, into a neuron, through the brain, out to a drooling fat man strapped down in a psych ward watching Madden videos on Youtube.
OMG!
“Geagle if he learned how to type coherently would be a solid addition.”
NICE TRY GEAGLE.
WE’RE ON TO YOU.
Go start an eagles blog and update it five times a weeks with insightful quality content that you offer everyone for free. Or jump off a bridge. Either way, stop embarassing yourself on this one.
I love it. These guys just get it.
I’d rather this experiment than the opposite one DAL is trying. At least I can cheer in good faith. #growthmindset
https://youtu.be/RKlAUnbZ2_k
I still need to read that book. I’ve been told several times that it’s a good read.
And yes, I agree with you.
I found it very interesting when Chip had that quote about Agholor having a growth versus fixed mindset. I just read that book a few months ago, and it had a very big impact on me. It was one of the most important things I had read in a while, and it has deep implications for how I approach my career as well as how I want to raise my incoming child. Hearing that Chip was an advocate was pretty amazing, and gives me a great deal of faith in what’s to come.
We really don’t know if what Chip is doing will bring us a title. But I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that whatever he is doing, he’s doing it in a way that I admire greatly, and that I respect even more. There’s always a little bit of luck in winning titles, so if it doesn’t happen, I can understand, but there’s something very nice about knowing that if it does happen, it’s because someone like Chip had a very well thought out, very well researched, and very well justified set of core values that directly impacted his decisions. If he does bring us a title, you’re going to hear him talked about in 20 years the way people talk about Bill Walsh.
Kelly has a whole secret network of university professors different kind of fields that he get knowledge from.
I find it perplexing that people think that Kelly is just gunning around with out thinking. This is the guy who has mapped every single seconds of every practice, but he wouldn’t prepare for every single scenario in the draft or FA?
Exactly. Where most people think he’s shooting from the hip in the wild west, he might actually be the most educated and detailed coach in the entire NFL.
Well said, and congrats.
Nice post.
Chip is the 2nd sports figure in my lifetime that has had a real influence on me with respect to how I view the world. The 1st was AI, when I was younger, obviously.
For all their differences, both Chip and AI are true iconoclasts, and I consider myself fortunate that I’ve been able to root for both of them.
It’s funny you mention that. AI was one of the few players I’ve seen who inspired me personally, even though I’m not a huge basketball fan, and overall don’t have a lot of respect for the guy. But what he did in that series against the Lakers, man. That was something, and it hit a personal note. That doesn’t always happen.
What’s fascinating, though, is that he’d be one of the first guys that Chip would jettison. Totally a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset guy, and it’s right there in his much publicized attitude towards practice. So funny how you can be moved by people from different walks of life and different points of view.
On the talent very character discussion, there is a staying here;
‘hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard’
That’s what Kelly gets when he picks up guys like agholor over desean, and to an extent demarco over shady. Not to say that those guys never put in work, but you can see in their demeanor that the guys Kelly has brought in are solely focused on getting better every day. You can see it in their eyes when they answer questions. Now, this is not too say that they will all become stars, but there is a better chance of a player being an above average contributer comsistantly when they have the attitude as opposed to just the talent
and its not like Murray or Agholor isnt as talented as McCoy and Jackson. Its not like its AP or Dez Bryant in terms of talent that Kelly traded and cutted
i think Kelly missed an opportunity when he failed to draft Collins in the 6th or 7th round. He might have gotten a 1st round talent cheaply [that was in for an interview] with the only downside being the possible loss of a low round draft choice that he may have been able to sign as a FA..
Along with 30 other teams…
The full downside would have been spending a pick on a guy who wound up being involved in the murder of a woman and child, and who had explicitly said he wouldn’t sign for anyone drafting him after the third in any event.
Of course now he has been completely cleared of any involvement in said murder it’s easy to say we should have signed him, but the reason we (along with every other team in the league) passed on him was that there was still at least a chance he could’ve been involved at the time of the draft.
Hindsight is hindsighty.
it wasn’t my suggestion that they offer him a contract, or even allow him into the facility, until and unless he was cleared of any involvement in illegal activity; if it turned out he was involved, they wouldn’t offer a contract and wasted a low round choice; if he was cleared, they might have a starting G; the risk reward was clear in my mind; the odds are really long that any of their low round choices will make the team and help in any meaningful way and they might have been able to sign them as FAs anyway; Collins claim that he wouldn’t sign if he was taken below the third round meant nothing
If he was cleared, he would not have signed. He would’ve held out and gone back jnto the draft in 2016. The only upside was keeping him from signing somewhere else for a year.
The downside was a guarantee you wasted a pick on a guy who’d never sign for you, let alone play a down, along with potentially being the team that drafted a killer. 32 teams weighed risk/reward and decided he wasn’t worth it on draft weekend.
of course he would have signed. he signed as a FA. anyone who thinks otherwise has no business being in the position of authority for an NFL team. in terms of what they would have lost if the investigation disclosed criminal or immoral behavior, can you name any 6th or 7th round draft choices in the past several years that helped them win. Off the top of may head, I can’t think of anybody. Dunlap is having a solid career but not with them. they traded brown for a 4th round choice. coleman hung around for a couple of years. Who else?? any starters?? my point is that they had very little to lose.
He only signed as a free agent because he had no choice. UDFAs aren’t allowed to reenter the draft the next year. Had he been drafted and not signed a contract he would have been able to reenter in 2016 which is what his agent said he would do. While I think that was short sighted on his part it would have been a wasted draft pick to take him.
He would not have signed. This isn’t even a debate. It was “I choose where I’m playing in UDFA, or I’m going to earn more money by going back into the draft in 2016”. All 32 teams believed this. And all 32 teams decided the whole “let not draft a guy when there’s a chance he might be a murderer” was very much worth bearing in mind.
Kelce is the answer to your second point, obviously.
Nothing to lose? Only if you’re working in a world of hindsight where there was zero chance you just drafted a murderer.
Get used to seeing posts like that all through the season. They’ve been popping up on Birds 24/7 every three days or so. “WE SHOUDL HAVE DRAFTED COLLINGS!!!!”
It’s so idiotic.
No he wouldn’t have signed, and even if he did he would be the most disgruntled employee ever. By drafting him you would be saying I don’t care about the fact your ex and her child just got murdered. We don’t respect your wishes in this situation.
How can you sit here and say that he would have signed if drafted and whoever thinks other wise has no right being in a position of authority with an NFL team? Meanwhile all 32 teams didn’t draft him. They didn’t draft him for a reason. Nobody here is involved with an NFL teams decisions, but it’s funny because everyone else’s statements coincide with what every NFL team did besides your statements. So the logical thing to think would be that it’s YOU that should have absolutely no voice in what an NFL team does.
Beau Allen, Bryce Brown, and Jason Kelce come to mind.
More importantly, why would you pick a player that, literally, said he doesn’t want to be part of your team? How is that going to go with buy in and pushing players to be their best? What happens when you are cutting down to 53 and you have a fringe player that has worked his ass off and a disgruntled La’el trying to goad you into cutting him?
Dude. Think of what you are saying. His ex and her child are murdered. He says to not be drafted, so we should have just gone against his wishes and drafted him anyway? Way to completely disrespect somebody and make them want to never play a snap for you.
It’s time to let it go, man.
I was surprised that no team drafted him late, as you suggest. It seemed like a reasonable game. My conclusion was that there must have been some information the GMs were privy to that was gogin to result in a conviction. Guess not.
I really think it was the fact he could have sat out a year and gone right back in the next draft. No one thought it was worth calling the (possible) bluff of a player that could end up being a PR nightmare.
It would have been completely disrespecting him. His ex with her child was just murdered, he asks to not be drafted and you do it anyway. It’s not humane and I’m sure he would refuse to play a down for you. Your suggested action fails to keep in mind that he is a human being.
I agree with you, but it’s funny because the whole draft process is designed to de-humanize the players.
Not Eagles related, but dam
http://draftbreakdown.com/gif-embed/?clip=259685&gif=ActiveLightHoverfly
i don’t know what they put in these kids cheerios, when i jump i barely get off the ground.
Also a good read
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12828855/experts-discuss-whether-philadelphia-eagles-head-coach-chip-kelly-method-madness
I hope reporters writer more articles like this, instead of stupid instant analyze crap.
I just realized that the Seahawks didnt pick up Bruce Irvin’s 5th year option.
Yes he only has 16.5 sacks in 3 years, but the last 2 years he has played SAM in a 4-3 instead of been a pass rusher.
Yeah but on pass rushing downs they generally let him rush the passer for the very most part.
He is still asked to drop back and cover a lot compared to his rookie year where he was the Leo
I don’t disagree with that. He still rushes the passer alot. I just don’t think he is that great of a pass rusher. Great athlete, and good speed coming off the edge but if someone gets there hands on him it’s over. Hence the not so great numbers and the 5th year option not being picked up.
I think if he were to hit FA he could possibly be a good rotational guy with us but I don’t think he would be a starter by any means.
16.5 sacks for a Sam lb is good so not sure why it wasn’t picked up. Irvin would be perfect here imo
Can’t agree on that. Again there is a reason it wasn’t picked up.
I think he would be good in a rotational role here. Not a starting role. He does not have the ability to set the edge in a 3-4 when a blocker is making a bee line for him. He would get run on as a starter in our system. Just look at the builds between him, BG, Cole, and Barwin. Irvin has the build that Smith has (hopefully had) in which Smith even said I need to bulk up. Smith has been in the league one year. Irvin has been in the league for 4 years. Furthermore from his actions and statements he is not a CK guy.
Rushing the passer he would constantly be going up against tackles and once their hands are on him it’s about over. If he can’t beat you with speed it’s done. You need far more then that to be a good starting OLB in a 3-4. Ask Smith.
Irvin is not a traditional Sam LB. When he is asked to pressure the QB (alot) he lines up wide with his hand in the dirt to utilize his speed. If you think he is playing a traditional SAM lb you are wrong. He is given far more opportunities to rush the passer then a normal SAM.
Seattle said they were interested in bringing him back, but presumably at lower than the required 5th-year tender (would have been just under $8 million). Irvin is reportedly not happy about not being picked up though, so we’ll see.
Why do people keep saying “X number of drafts visited ” like it’s something new like sliced bread? Is that saying all of the other nfl teams are just picking names from a hat based on film? Shame on them(or applaud them because winning SB’s teams aren’t having players visit). IF other teams meet with players that they draft, I think we can stop trumpeting that horn over and over…
Kelly more then other teams seems to only draft players that he has brought in at a seemingly higher percentage then other teams.
Other than this forum saying it… Are there statistics to back it up? Id imagine each team has a high percentage…. It’s just a guess on my part though
I don’t have numbers to really back it up, but it seems the only players he brings in are ones that he knows from Oregon, came to the facility, or he interviewed.
There are alot of teams that bring players in just to trick other teams. Reid did this. Kelly said it was a waste of time.
I didn’t mean you personally. People are getting that “thought” from somewhere so I’d like to see the data to back it up. Are other teams drafting 50% of the kids the meet? 75%? Just strange that people keep throwing that out there…
I understand. I know you don’t mean me personally. The percentage from the Reid period is up. You have to assume that the percentage is higher then alot of the teams that use these visits as smoke screens.
With how specific Kelly is his draft board has to be alot smaller then most teams. So the visits he has with players are the ones he truly wants.
The percentage of players that Kelly drafts is extremely high. I believe last year every player he drafted he had a visit with. I know the first three players we drafted this year he had visits with. I’m not sure if he visited with Evans but I know he spoke to the other CB we drafted (forget name) at his pro day. The past 2 years we are at 100% or very slightly less.
His first draft I believe was 100% minus 1 player. I think we are between 90% and 95% from the past 3 drafts. Very possibly higher. I can’t provide other teams information, but because our draft board is so specific and therefore smaller then most I’m going to take a guess and say that we have a higher percentage.
Also keep in mind before the draft Kelly attends more visits and pro days then any other HC, therefore he speaks to more players making the percentage even higher.
Look, I like CK. I do. But did he go to Lurie and say — give me 5 years to build my team? That’s a heck of a selling job. Some say, and maybe I agree with that this year is really year one for CK. If that’s true, CK wasn’t being CK the last 2 years? Shame on him then…Let’s hope this is the start of something good…
Considering he never coached in the NFL before, didn’t have full control before and was given a team of guys he didn’t know and hadn’t chosen for himself yet, I don’t think you can say shame on him. He gave us two years of 10-6 despite all of that.
I get all that but .. that wasn’t a bunch of no talents he picked up. And — why wasn’t he in charge since day one? Isn’t that why he was hired? This wasn’t a normal hire of a college coach. This was the most targeted coach to be in the nfl.
……
From a perspective, CK came here and tried to play “nice” and include others in the process(cough – HR). Then CK said enough with that and cleaned house. I’m saying — shame on CK for him not being who he should be…
I have 2 points that I’d appreciate feedback on. Many of us are puzzled or even unhappy that Mychal Kendricks is rumored to be a short-timer. Is there ANY evidence that anyone can recall that MK is NOT a Chip Kelly type? As well as he’s played, he’s got to be training hard and striving to improve. To me he has looked better each season.
Secondly, has Kelly’s choosiness cost him a superior player? This isn’t to provoke a dumb argument. I just cannot recall who he’s let slip by.
Kelly loves smarts and there was one thing that really stood out to me regarding Kendricks. Ryan’s was the one getting everyone in place and calling the checks. When Ryan’s went down we all figured it would be Kendricks doing it. Nope, it was Mathews. It just seems as though Kelly doesn’t trust him in the mental area of the game.
I’m not sure if Kendricks is doing this anymore, but there were reports in his early years of him running over to the sideline first thing to check his stats. Maybe he only did it with Reid and not Kelly, but even so it shows a certain mindset. Be that I’m sure Kelly isn’t the type to like.
The second point I made could possibly not be true, but I’ve heard ALOT of people that just don’t spread BS say it. The first point though I think is a key, or a definite contributor. Look at the drafting of Hicks, one of the reasons Kelly loves him is because he was a field general.
Edit: Another article stood out to me. It was involving Eric Kendricks. Little Kendricks was asked the difference between him and his brother. He said his brother was definitely more explosive but he was the one that worked hard on refining his technique and film work. Could be absolutely wrong, but maybe Kendricks really isn’t the film guru that Kelly prefers.
Kelly has never came out and said a negative thing about Kendricks. He has only given him compliments. Therefore since we are not in the building all’s we can do is speculate to the best of our ability. These are just a few things that stood out to me besides the height thing.
Regarding your second question. Jackson definitely. McCoy to a degree as well. McCoy was also due to money and running style. However he was quickly replaced by very good talent that fits the style of the team. Jackson is the biggest seeing he wasn’t really replaced, and that was more of a just get out the door type thing.
If you mean by letting slip in FA or draft. I really can’t think of any.
Some interesting morsels there, thanks. It would have really caused a ruckus if Kelly picked Erik and then traded away Mychal. lol And I don’t ever expect for Kelly to dis ANY player. It’s not his style. But that is partly what provokes the question.
Yeah, Kelly does what he has to do to create his roster, but he tries to take the high road when doing it. Something Shady seems highly incapable of doing.
This is pure speculation but from reports that have been out there Kendricks is more of a player of the game, not a student of the game in which Kelly truly values. Again pure speculation, alot of people may disagree especially since the evidence regarding my theory is again of the speculation variety.
However us as fans all we can do is speculate most of the time. Collect the most information we can and deduce a theory with it.
Tommy
I am currently reading a book called war room. It is about how the new England patriots built their teams to win multiple rings. Its really easy to see how bill and chip have similar ideas on culture in a locker room and why it is so important.
I get your point.
The biggest difference between Bellicheat and Chip though still is that the former didn’t mind having star players / divas (eg Randy Moss) on his team while the latter seems to be staying away of those…
The former also didn’t seem to mind having psychopaths & has been caught cheating so many times it’s absurd.
Actually the book talks on a change in philosophy and acquiring moss and Drafting players like moroney and free agent signings like adalious Thomas. How that went against the normal patriot culture. How many rings did they win making those risks? Zero. Yes they had an undefeated regular season and then things started to fall off big time. Teddy bruschi talked a lot about that in this book. I love what chip is doing and can’t wait to see how this team develops over the next two to three years.
talib, blount, browner, revis, gronk, these are culture guys? you cant really judge success like that by rings b/c what usually kept them from getting rings was guys dropping balls in the super bowl.
Anon:
Great point.
The “Moss Experiment” didn’t fail in New England. The Patriots continued winning division titles through all the moves Belichick has made (even went 11-5 in 2008 when Brady was out 15.5 games).
Compare that to the “TO Experiment” by Reid — eventually a disaster.
Moss didn’t went full TO and that Tom Brady guy is pretty good
Just thinking about Owens v.05 . . .
Reid lost control and I’m not sure he ever completely recaptured it.
Very angry now!!!
I think chip wants talent as well as guys that want to always improve and never be satisfied that they are good enough. I for one have no problem with that. I think chip probably will take a chance on a guy who you may think has questionable character after he has a locker room filled with an established system in place. That will allow for them to police the dressing room if a questionable character acts out. Chip needs to establish his way first. Vrabel bruschi were two of a handful of guys that made sure things were done the right way so everyone fell in line. I think that’s what chip is trying to do first. Then you may see him insert a player that has high end talent with questionable character.
Exactly, you can’t blame “culture” or whatever for going 18-0 and then losing to a hot/lucky team by 4 points in the Super Bowl.
That team with Moss is still an all time great and I’d take them every time in a best out-of-five series against the Giants.
Kelly’s emphasis on culture takes me back to the Madden era Raiders and the Jimmy Johnson era Cowboys. “Just Win Baby” was the Al Davis-inspired mantra that accompanied a band of talented misfits in Oakland, and Johnson put up with a lot of childish behavior, and did so willingly, as long as you produced on the field. An observation: Madden and Johnson had relatively compressed careers as NFL HC’s. Tension can drive performance, and it can also drive coaches out the door.
That’s a strange comparison. It appears to me that Chip is trying to fashion something more like the San Antonio Spurs (the team I follow). Despite never being loaded with a lot of flashy, ESPN-worthy talent, they do things the right way. Guys buy in. There’s almost no gunning, which is exceptional given NBA players are (stupidly) based entirely on how much they score. When their offense is clicking, they can look like the Harlem Globetrotters with their masterful passes to get open shots. You do not often hear about the Spurs in the rumor mills or entertainment pages; they rarely get in trouble, and they don’t get a lot of endorsements and ESPN doesn’t like to talk about them too much.
They’ve been “too old” since 2008, but they keep chipping away, riding the same old, boring worn out players to old, boring Division championships, deep playoff runs, and, last year, of course, the whole enchilada. Meanwhile, the flavor-of-the-month teams and players rise and fall around them. While they did get bumped in the first round this year by an excellent Clippers team, they will probably be back next year with a 40 year old Duncan manning the middle.
Coach Greg Popovich, who will purportedly chew out Tim Duncan as easily as a rookie on a 2-week contract, an infamous bad interview, and the architect of this amazing run in sports history, took over in 1996. Not too compressed.
Who’s our Tim Duncan though?!
Jason peters?
Sam Bradford . . . der!
(kidding, of course . . . the recent wave of Bradford-mania prompted this.)
Great question. Once the Eagles win a couple of Super Bowls, you should again ask that question . . .
If still alive.
der Wienerschnitzel?
That’s really good.
If the Eagles will have won multiple Super Bowls there can only be one answer to that question: Marcus Mariota!
It was suppose to be mariota
Pope…in time.
I wasn’t making a forecast for Kelly. Madden and Johnson were much more tolerant of the rebels/oddballs/psychos who could produce on the gridiron, but they had that noise to contend with. I think that tolerance yields a cost. Tim Duncan is most definitely a guy Kelly could love.
But they also didn’t have the same exposure and rules today’s players do.
What drove Madden out the door was a fear of flying. That’s why they came up with the Madden Cruiser (bus) for him to travel as an announcer. Johnson, I duuno…won two SBs in short order and then he and Jerrah didn’t see eye to eye. Don’t think pressure to perform was the cause for either to walk away.
OD:
What’s the word? All good, I hope.
As far as I know – All Good. Not surprising, there is tons of excitement about the season. I have heard nothing about Kendricks or Mathis. Bradford is on schedule, again as far as I know.
Rookies are expected to bring of level of commitment and energy that will supercharge an already very good team. Personally, I can’t wait to see “Death” Rowe and Agholor in action. I am also expecting surprises from Hicks and Sheppard.
OD:
If you drift back . . . hope all’s good w/ OD, too.
Thanks AC. For some reason, probably mental, I keep thinking of a quote from the movie “Little Big Man” – it goes something like – “I will endeavor to persevere.” And that is exactly what I will do.
very fine movie choice.
I haven’t thought about that movie in forever. Was shown to me in college by one of the coolest woman I know.
It should be pointed out that Kelly’s worldview here appears to be more dialectic than Cartesian. This is actually a radical difference from Lombardi/Walsh schools of thought.
BB:
Would welcome an expansion of this comment.
Loaded with some fantastic teasers.
In a nutshell, he’s talking about the player as a process and the team as process. That’s Hegel/Marx 101.
The way teams are usually constructed is from “perfect parts”. The best player, becomes part of the best unit (OL, LB, Secondary, etc), becomes part of the best squad. On and on. The team is “perfect” because it’s broken into divisions that are perfect. That’s a simplification of the fundamental point of Descartes. Lombardi preached it, Walsh preached it.
From the quotes in the article, CK’s focus is on the mutability of the player and the player-as-process. This puts his read-options and package plays into an interesting light as well. It’s strategy as process.
Obviously, it’s more than a stretch to say that CK is a strict Hegelian. It’s interesting to me, though, that he shines this light on his team building in ways that other coaches and organizations typically don’t.
I can’t say I’m totally versed in Walshian and Lobardian philosophy, but I can’t say I see much of a difference from where I stand. Most good football coaches and GMs I’ve heard speak talk about the importance of player development. I love listening to Pat Kirwan talk about finding effective ways to teach different players.
At least with Walsh and Kelly, there seems to be a pretty strong vision in place of an endgame – a starting lineup where all the players develop properly into the coach’s system.
I’m not saying there’s no eye toward continuous improvement (including redefining goals even as fundamental as what the ideal system looks like). I’m just saying that there’s clearly a strategic plan in mind, and these coaches recognize the importance of developing players given this plan.
Sure, right on. It’s really just a matter of emphasis in rhetoric.
Kelly, in this article, is referring to a type of thinking which is de-emphasized in “traditional” team building.
All of these philosophies intersect in real world application. Sort of like a jazz band where a different instrument may be dominant but the others are still playing.
There’s also a high percentage of B.S. in these posts -but still, I think it’s fun to think about things in terms like these.
I agree BB. Chip evolved his philosophy with the realization that he could not staff his teams with “perfect” players due to division/market constraints or the general situation that your team must suck to get top draft picks in the NFL.
So if you cannot staff your team with the best players, then you need a coaching process and scheme strategy to overcome tough odds. (Kinda like the invention of the crossbow in China some time around 240 BC. The first Chinese emperor, Qin Shi Huang, used peasant armies to fight the professional armies of his rivals. And he won often. Training and technology, the crossbow, were his edge.) Chip just uses the spread, smoothies, and coaching to get his edge.
I think you’re falling for the marketing. There’s not a coach in the league, including Chip, that would turn down the best players if he had a chance. There’s also not a coach in the league, including Chip, that isn’t stuck with some less than ideal pieces that they intend to put through “the process” of getting better. Chip can spin it like Steve Jobs all he wants, but they’re all doing the same thing.
T-Law:
Hope you catch this.
Someone in the thread made a comment (and self-reply) — both hopefully tongue in cheek — that did not exactly flatter your commitment to this community.
Speaking for myself . . .
Thank you for sustaining this community.
Thank you for all the obviously hard, and great, work you put into this space.
Thank you for inviting us into your virtual booth at the bar.
Keep on keepin’ on — just the way you are.
Just keep the bar stocked, Tommy, with Funyuns and PBR. Oh, and also a little whisky to chase the PBR. 🙂
Here, Here!
What he said!
Amen. I don’t agree with a lot of stuff Tommy writes, but I love reading it.
Why didn’t the guy just demand a refund? Oh, wait…..
!!!
Here’s how much I appreciate Tommy’s work: Even though it’s about the offest part of the off-season, I still check the site at least three or four times a day. I eagerly look forward to Tommy’s posts and this is the only blog in any sphere where I read so many comments.
T-Law has created and sustained a remarkable online community in the sports world. A place where intelligence and insight generally reign. In how many other NFL environments does it seem like guys actually think before expressing their opinion?
I’d raise a PBR to you, Tommy and fellow Blitzers, but who wants to drink that crap (tongue-in-cheek, gents)?!
Just announced, the Ravens and Eagles will hold joint practices this year. I love these joint practices.
Where’d you see that?
Twitter, Phillymag, espn.
Where
Phillymag, espn, twitter.
where — are the practices?
Wherever the preseason game is
Novacare
Bold Prediction:
During this year’s Bills and Redskin games, the Eagles will be flagged for “not enough good black players” on the field, that’s a fifteen yard penalty and loss of down.
Shady and DJax will both knowingly nod in approval.
Riley Cooper will rush to the sideline and don black-face and report back into the game wearing a Coop Dawg jersey proving he still doesn’t get it.
Upvote for Coop Dawg.
Get on it, Nike.
The Redskins will then shortly after be disqualified for having a racist name
There’s nothing wrong with establishing a culture and eventually an identity. Every good team from high school to the pros has one. Ravens and steelers are seen as old school physical teams while the patriots are like a machine in the sense that they just keep on rolling play after play.
“Skins are the aunt in the cellar.
Giants are scum of the earth and the Cowboys are just a house of cards
Always thought the culture derived from the best player.
I never really thought of it that way. I’ve always that it starts with the coach, coach gets guys he wants who probably have a mindset like him and thus the team adapts the mindest
Culture derives from the coach since its really up to the coach who is on the roster. You could have argued and said Shady was the best player on the roster.
There seems to be so much turn over of rosters, it’s hard to establish a culture like years ago.
Nothing wrong with establishing a culture and Identity? Something SERIOUSLY WRONG anout a coach who isn’t trying to establish a CULTURE and Identifity..
..
When Bellichek gets rid of hall of fame black players like Moss, or Richard Seymour, Bellicheat is a “Genius” and it’s “The Patriot way”.. When chip does it, he is a Racist… Smh. pathetic. I hope the eagles NEVER celebrate Shady again.. Even after chips gone, saying the man who has full control of the Eagles is racist is a slap on the face to Lurie..
..
I used to feel guilty that I woulld secretly hope shady got banged up and had to miss a game or two so i could get an extended look at Polk… Silly me
..
I’m going to give away my shady jersey. Instead of retiring it to the walls of my man cave like I do with all the jerseys of Eagles players who move on to other teams, Im giving it away….Hope chip drafts Zeke Elliot to erase shady from the eagle franchise record books
You have a “man cave”?
This is so perfect. Hahahaha. Oh man.
Well the difference between belicheck and kelly is that belicheck got rid of those guys after achieving success so of course everyone thinks he’s a genius for doing so. I believe kelly will be successful but until then people won’t give him the respect he deserves.
Interesting nugget I found about Brett Boyko the UDFA OL from UNLV
Interesting. It’s crazy how talented you need to be to just try and get on an NFL roster.
First overall pick in the CFL is equivalent to an UDFA in the NFL that is currently on a team that needs young OL help, and he is not even remotely guaranteed for a roster spot.
Can’t blame him if he goes, but it does suck for us because I did like him as a prospect. I like our other UDFA Manhart more though. Athletic, has a mean streak and solid feet. He is light for guard though at 298, but he has the frame to add some more weight and strength.
He would be paid more as a practice squad player here than he would as the starting LT for a team in Canada.
He would make 107k for a year on the PS here. Teams also have been known to pay up to the rookie minimum for PS players they really like to keep them from accepting an offer to go to another team on the active 53. (We did this with Thorton). So 107-420K.
The CFL has a 5 million dollar cap. They have 46 man rosters. Minimum is 50k, average is 80k. Even as the first overall pick it wouldn’t be difficult for the Eagles to outpay whatever his salary would be in Canada.
nice to see us do the joint practice with the Ravens even if they are led by a coward who felt the need to talk trash about Chip without having the balls to say Chips name.. Sounded like some coward rapper talking subliminal trash in a song.. Grow a pair HARBAUGH and say it to chips face…. Hope our DL smashes their starting OL for the entire week…. NOTHIING more cowardly then subliminal shit talk.. Got something to say, be a man and speak up Harbaugh..bet Harbaugh sits down to pee….. I just can’t respect a man who goes out of his way to talk trash about another man, but is too chicken shit to speak up…. What did Chip ever do to Harbaugh that Harbaugh should be running his mouth unsolicited? Bet Harbaugh acts all buddy buddy at the joint practices… Say it to chips face if you have something to say
That poor kid tearing his *cl during practice. I watched happened and couldn’t help but wonder — do all teams have rookie camps where contact is initiated basically day 1?
who?
Fowler I assume
yes. unless there was someone else too. But I’ve only heard of Fowler. Kid goes through that whole offseason and draft and bam — done for the season.
Thanks, that sucks but at least its not one of our own.
Where can I find he quotes of Jacory Shepard speaking about how he is confident in his speed and ability and he plans on going after NFL recievers?
Here ya go GEagle. http://m.cjonline.com/sports/hawkzone/2015-05-02/kus-jacorey-shepherd-ready-prove-nfl-worth-philadelphia-eagles-following#gsc.tab=0
He mentions that a hamstring injury hurt his 40 time on his Pro Day, and that he usually runs in the 4.4 to 4.5 range.
My man…
Have you heard anything about:
…
1) a trade chip turned down during the draft? (Non Mariota related)
..
2) a player for player swap with the Bears that may still be on the table(say it ain’t so!!!!)?
.
Let me know…
If you have info, please share. What player for what player? I can’t speak for everyone here, but I won’t hold it against you if nothing happens. Just because a deal doesn’t ultimately go down, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t discussed.
Mykal for Shea… I’ll be sick to my stomach if chip does this
Bradford trade with somebody – probably Browns. It was to move up in draft. I heard nothing on Bears.
No bradford trade…turned down a 4th for kendricks… I assume this will be reported soon….
Nice thing about Chip, is under him, we won’t have to root for Donkeys, and justify it as “they are OUR donkeys”,.. Don’t mind rooting for quality players who are also quality people, and who’s donkey behavior we don’t have to overlook because of what they bring to the field
…
I hope shady and Rex Ryan talk so much trash the week leading up to the Eagles game, while our players say nothing,,,