OTAs To Get Underway

Posted: May 26th, 2015 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 172 Comments »

OTAs begin today for the Eagles. This isn’t football, it is football practice. And it is just a limited, non-contact version of even that. But OTAs still have value.

This is a time for the players to learn. They are setting the foundation now. They will build on it in future OTAs and then in minicamp. Training Camp is when things really get going. Players can actually hit. Preseason games will be the next step. And then we’ll get to see the finished product in September.

There isn’t a lot to take away from them, but it is still good to get our first glimpse at the new team. We all want to know who lines up at Safety opposite of Malcolm Jenkins. We all want to see Nelson Agholor catch a pass from Sam Bradford. We all want to see Tim Tebow throw a pass. And so on.

OL and defenders are fairly limited. They get valuable reps that help them with technique and working on the scheme. Still, that’s a long way from learning in a live drill.

DBs will get their first on-field coaching from Cory Undlin. I really think he could prove to be a very underrated offseason acquisition. He is a proven NFL coach. John Lovett was a college coach and something wasn’t clicking between him and the players.

It will also be interesting to find out the status of some injured players.

Sam Bradford
Kiko Alonso
DeMeco Ryans
Earl Wolff
Walter Thurmond
Miles Austin

Who practices? Who is close? Who is still on schedule?

The media can’t watch until Thursday, but hopefully some stories will leak out before then.

Zach Berman wrote a quick primer on the OTAs if you have simple questions.

* * * * *

Jason Kelce thinks the OTAs are especially important due to all the changes.

“Any time you have more pieces coming in, especially on offense, obviously the OTAs [organized team activities] mean a lot more,” Kelce said. “If we were returning everybody on offense, there’s a certain amount of chemistry. But whenever you have incoming pieces, you have to focus to incorporate those pieces into the offense.”

Every rep those guys get together can help.

Kelce talked about his rehab.

“I’ve done a lot of work this offseason so far,” he said. “I’ve stayed in Philly for the entire year, pretty much. I started actually doing some Pilates, believe it or not, to help with the recovery in my groin and my core, based on some of the recommendations I had from Chip and some of the other guys around here. And on top of that I’ve just been working out in the weight room the entire offseason.”

Kelce doing Pilates? That’s Sports Science for you. Think outside the box and find a solution that works.

He also had some good things to say about his fellow OL.

“We have plenty of guys who obviously got playing time last year,” he said. “Allen Barbre is a guy who’s played a lot of snaps for us. … I think we’ve got some pieces that can fill in. Who knows what will transpire, but I guess we’ll find out.

“I know Matt Tobin and Andrew Gardner can go in there and compete well enough for us to win games. I mean, I think Matt Tobin actually exhibits, on a lot of occasions, some extremely exciting potential. Andrew Gardner is about as good as you’re going to get in one of these backup roles. He plays both tackle and both guard positions, and when he played for us last year, he did an outstanding job starting too.”

We knew he wasn’t going to rip his teammates, but his praise for Tobin is interesting. That might be a player the Eagles like more than fans realize. With Evan Mathis sitting out these OTAs, it will be interesting to see who gets reps at LG. Tobin would make the most sense.


172 Comments on “OTAs To Get Underway”

  1. 1 GEAGLE said at 8:35 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    The eagles didn’t have to get rid of Herremans, it was their choice, it was chips decision, amd I don’t believe chip makes Any decision unless he thinks it improves us…so while we tend to look at tobin/Barbre instead of the TODDfather as a downgrade, I won’t be surprised if replacing Todd with Tobin or BARBRE turns out to be an upgrade..if this wasn’t an upgrade, we had enough money to keep Todd here for one more season.

    chip speaks Thursday at noon before practice That is open to media
    I hope our hack local media dpesmt make a spectacle of TEBOW. Fans don’t care, we don’t want to hear about this fringe talent, I certainly don’t want to see chip have to answer a bunch of questions about a camp arm, and I will flip out if the media wastes our time with the 4th string QB taking questions at the podium… Their are about 60 players i want to hear about BEfORE TEBOW
    Really hope the media doesn’t ruin the offseason making a spectacle of “the gridiron Jesus”

  2. 2 Jernst said at 8:58 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Todd had definitely become the weak link among the presumptive starters last year. He was solid, unspectacular in any way, but solid last year. I think his release had more to do with him than with other players clearly beating him out. His body seemed to start breaking down, he was clearly on the downswing of his career and he had a hefty price tag. Now, I think the Eagles like Barbre and Tobin a lot more than we do, but I haven’t seen them do anything in game action that makes me think they’ll ever be anything more than journeyman level players. Good backups, but nothing more. Guys that you wouldn’t neceserily have to replace but that you’d be happy to replace every year if they were your starters.

    We’ll see. Tobin is young and had a bad ankle sprain last year that held him back. Him becoming a young Herremans level guard would be a huge plus for us since we’d go into next off season only needing to replace Mathis.

  3. 3 GEAGLE said at 9:34 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I believe’ that there isn’t a decision chip makes on this roster that isn’t improving his team…
    For starters, no fan is qualified to speak on what we have in BARBRE, for the simple fact that he has played about 20 snaps as an eagle… For all we know Barbe is a Bum, or BARBRE is the next Evan Mathis, no fan Or media has seen him play enough to know…

    At least a fan can take a look at a few games worth of Tobins reps…problem with looking at Tobins tape is that he is a young man, which means he should be a different player Mext year then he was last year, assuming he is a hard worker

    As fans and Media. We may not know what we have with Tobin and Barbre, but Im sure Stoutland and chip have a very good idea, and If chip and stoutland weren’t excited about Batbre or Tobin atarting, I assume Herremans would still be here… I think we got rid of him, because we can’t ask a
    Long time starter to move to the bench so we can start BARBRE, tobin or whatever ypung guard they are high on..
    Our coaches get to see these guys every day for the past two years. They get to see them up against monsters like Cox and Bennie.. More importantly our coaches get to see how much a kid like Tobim has grown these past two years…. OL is too Important, especially when going 3 amd out in 30 seconds has such a negative effect on the defense…I can’t possibly believe we got rid of a starter without havimg an OL WR are very high on already on the bench… Todd’s body absolutely is wearing down, but I assume we got rid of him to make room for a Lineman we are high on…

    My real concern is to me, tobin looked much better on the left side, then when we moved him to the right side… Hopefully after an offseason working on the right side, he gets comfortable at RG… I’m very curious to see how the BARBRE/TOBIn battle unfolds…

    If our starting OL is healthy in September, I expect to be a top 10 OL…even without knowing who will lineup next to the top RT in the NFL in 2015, BANE Johnson

  4. 4 GEAGLE said at 9:51 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    People assume that we tried to sign Orlando Franklin to replace Herremans, but I’m not sure if I believe that…. I think that if we were able to sign an expensive veteran like Franklin,chip would have kicked Mathis too the curb, and we would be looking at Franklin replacing Mathis, while tobin/Barbre replaced Herremans…no way I think we would have paid Franklin and still pay Mathis his 5mi..
    As for Mathis. He better proceed with caution, I hope he knows what he is doing, hate to see this blow up in his face.., what I mean is, he better be careful what he wishes for , if Mathis were to get cut today, Im not sure the next team he signs the will pay him 5mil a year…. Teams know he has been on the trading block for years and no team took the bait, he is a smaller guard, who is a perfect fit for our scheme but he may not look like the top guard in the NFL if he played in some other schemes.. The next team to sign him could easily try to lowball him and Mathis could end up having to sign for less then the 5mil he is scheduled to get from the Eagles…

    I know why he is trying to get more money, but I don’t understand why he thinks he can get so much more then 5mil from another team, for him to be holding out and thinking he deserves more money… Is a 34yr old Guard really a lock to make more then 5mil a year if he gets,cut in June?

  5. 5 eaglefansocal said at 11:07 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    NO. He is making a big mistake not showing up for workouts with a 5 million contract at stake!

  6. 6 GEAGLE said at 1:26 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    If he were to get cut by chip kelly, I have a hard time envisioning someone give him a new deal paying him more then 5mil a year during the summer, so I’m really confused about what he expects to accomplish by bringing this drama to our team..I realistically don’t like his odds of getting someone to pay him more then $5mil for this up comimg season… But just because he can’t get MORE then 5mil, doesn’t mean he can’t get less.
    I don’t see him winning this crusade, but if he doesnt be careful this could cost him.,.you don’t want to get fined for not showing up, you don’t want to get cut, with most teams having their rosters mostly set, having already spent most of their cap space… If he gets waived, every team knows he has been on the trade block for two years, teams will try to lowball the hell out of him

    This isn’t the first time drew Rosenhause gave an eagle bad career advice…

  7. 7 anon said at 1:50 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    yup Especially with a new QB, new Guard, new RBs feel like you need all the continuity time you can get.

  8. 8 Jernst said at 8:34 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Agreed! I honestly don’t think Mathis would even get $5 mil. Plus he’s actually scheduled to make $5.5mil this season and $6mil next. If he really thinks he can play at a high level, that would warrant a big contract, for the next two years, and since the Eagles dont have anyone waiting in the wings to replace him, there’s no reason to think he couldn’t finish out his career on a team that is an ideal scheme fit, in a high profile market with ample post retirement job opportunities for ex-football players.

    And, there’s no way he’d get $12+ mil gauranteed over the next two years from another team at 34 years of age, coming off an injury plagued year. He rates off the charts by PFT because he doesn’t get beat and plays with excellent technique, so there’s little to knock him on, but he’s hardly a dominanting game altering player.
    Plus he plays LG which is easily the easiest position along the offensive line. And, his potential suitors are limited because he’s not a fit in a lot of different schemes. He really has a specific skill set that allows him to excel in a zone blocking scheme.

  9. 9 Jernst said at 8:25 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Players are surprisingly short sighted. TO did the same thing. If he kept his mouth shut and kept playing well, this city was in the palm of his hand. He would have made more over his lifetime off of endorsements, appearances and radio/TV commentary as a beloved Philly legend than he ever was going to make throwing a hissy fit over a few extra million dollars.

  10. 10 daveH said at 10:25 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    “Our coaches get to see these guys every day for the past two years. They get to see them up against monsters like Cox and Bennie.. ”
    actually very interesting point about that I am so glad we didn’t trade Cox for MM .. how much better is our O line for practicing against him!! not just having him on our D, but having him in the practice mix also

  11. 11 GEAGLE said at 11:55 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I hear he is a spectacular practice player.. One of the true greats who show up dominate and set the tone In practice every day..,, we can quickily find out which of our young OL and Undrafted OL can sink or swim, just throw them in front of one of the baddest defensive Lines in the NFL,
    Need to find out if an Undrafted guard is strong enough? Stick Bennie or Beau Allen in front of him
    Need to find out which youngsters can handle speed rushers? No problem, let’s see how they handle Vinny curry exploding off the snap..
    Need to find out if a puppy is playing with leverage and beimg Technically sound? Put Technition cedrick Thornton In front of them..

    And If any of our young OL are slacking, not working hard enough, maybe getting cocky, possibly need to be punished? Then, and only then do you stick these kids in front of the monster also known as Fletcher Cox

    And on the other side of the ball, it easy to find out if edge rushers like Marcus Smith or Long are progressing, when you can Ayi k them in front of hall of fame Peters and what will be the best RT in the league this year, Bane Johnson

  12. 12 mksp said at 4:29 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    “I hope our hack local media”

    “Really hope the media doesn’t ruin the offseason”

    Just stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

    Every. Single. Post.

    You whine and bitch and complain.

    Go start your own fucking blog already if all you’re going to do is complain about the media all the time.

  13. 13 Jernst said at 8:51 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I could die a completely happy man if I never again experienced the absolute awe inducing horror of watching Tim Tebow throw a football.

    In all honesty, though, it will be interesting to see if he really has fixed his delivery and accuracy issues.

    One of my favorite quotes of all time: “Tim Tebow; .a player with the leadership skills of a Ray Lewis and the passing skills of …. a Ray Lewis.”

  14. 14 sonofdman said at 9:56 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Maybe Chip wanted to assure that everyone one the field and watching from the sidelines is paying full attention at all times and that is why he brought in Tebow. When he drops back and throws a pass, you never know where it is going to land and everyone will need to pay attention so they don’t get hit by accident.

  15. 15 Bert's Bells said at 9:33 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Pilates is nothing to sneer at. That stuff will kick your ass.

  16. 16 P_P_K said at 9:55 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Plus, you’re in a room of women in tight clothes.

  17. 17 daveH said at 10:26 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    my wife went to see Magic Mike in the theater ..she came back all giggly and said ‘ theater was packed with women all passing around wine and getting all roudy at the screen”
    ..I thought about that for a second and said DAMN I NEEDED TO BE THERE!!

  18. 18 the DONALD said at 10:42 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    what do your side advertisements look like after that comment?? i kid, i kid…

  19. 19 daveH said at 12:30 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    ha yes very funny! i make myself look stu pitt! ha if i wasn’t sofa king clueless, naive and embarrassed id have been totally embarrassed! right??!
    but i haven’t seen those horrifying ads lately so some algorithm has unworked its magic on me. maybe i watched a ton of correct porn to fix it!

  20. 20 P_P_K said at 1:07 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Off-topic, but here’s a great wife story. Billy Martin, while Manager of the Yankees, got caught coming out of a strip club. A reporter asked his wife, “What do you think of your husband coming going to that kind of place?” Her response: “I don’t care where he gets his appetitie as long as he comes home for his meals.” That’s some woman.

  21. 21 ACViking said at 2:15 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    PPK . . .

    That’s an R-17 comment. Keep your son off the blog for the rest of the day!

  22. 22 the DONALD said at 2:41 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    NY Strip is a great cut of meat…

  23. 23 P_P_K said at 4:20 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    He’s going on 13 and is internet savvy. Let’s hope his interests stay R-17 for awhile.

  24. 24 MagLikesDraft said at 8:59 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I’m curious to know how a married man going to a strip club and pretending he is using some young woman’s reproductive organs fits with “forsaking all others” or “honour and cherish”.

  25. 25 P_P_K said at 9:38 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    That’s between Mr. & Mrs. Martin.

  26. 26 James said at 9:44 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    If Mathis is out for all OTAs it would be safe to say Peters-Tobin-Kelce-Babre-Johnson is the starting OL group. I would be more interested in hearing who is coming in behind Tobin/Babre.

    The safety position is going to be interesting as well. I hope they keep Rowe at CB at least until the final preseason game. I think Rowe needs the full year at CB experience to see what he has at a NFL caliber CB, but if none of Wolff/Watkins/Couplin show up then you would think they would have to move Rowe.

    And of course Sammy Bradford. I want him to at least be on the field taking snaps and handoffs, and making some short throws.

  27. 27 Avery Greene said at 9:54 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I know a lot of people want Rowe at S, but I’m hoping he sticks at CB. I think they want someone big who can knock down passes, play physical, and stick with the WRs 1-on-1. I’d prefer to have CB locked down and then just focus on the other S position.

    I’d love to see some video of Bradford in some drills. He should be able to do those since there’s no contact.

    I’m also excited to hear about Huff/Matthews coming into their 2nd year. As much as I rip Cooper, will a better QB make him look better?

  28. 28 GEAGLE said at 10:09 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Trade up in round 1 for the first legit top safety in a draft in years aka Jaylen Ramsey… Or sign Browns safety, CB/Safety from Wyoming in free agency next year, Tashuan Gipson…..if we still have a safety problem after this season, ATleast we could see 2 quality options in the offseason to really turn the safety weakness Into a strength, actually there might end up being 3 good Safties available if Bengal George Illoka hits free agency…It’s nice to know there could be some nice safety upgrade opportunities next offseason but hopefully it doesn’t come down to that and we,see a young Eagle, step up and seize complete control of the safety spot for the next 3years…
    We have A !ot of young Saftey Talent on the roster, it would be extremely demoralizing if not a single one of these young safeties emerge as a legit starting NFL safety… We have too much young talent for all of them to fail, it would be extremely demoralizing..

  29. 29 Avery Greene said at 10:13 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I agree, lots of bodies and you hope at least one steps up into the role. Preferably I’d like multiple players, so if injury ever becomes a concern we have some decent backup.

  30. 30 GEAGLE said at 10:42 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yup…the more bodies that step up, the more fierce this competition becomes, which should lead to the most growth this offseason..
    This is a HECKUVA opportunity for 6-7 young men. It’s not often that a starting spot is so wide open to whee no one can even rationally project a favorite. What a dream opportunity to start next to a stud leader like Jenkins, with a Super Bowl winning corner from the Legion of Boom lined up on your other side….. Kids are going to go at this competition HARD. You really can’t afford to have a bad day, can’t afford to fall behind, you can’t afford to show up late or unprepared…as a young NFL player, you can’t mess around and go out drinking on a Wednesday night, because there will be at least 3 other young men who are at home, glued to their playbook, go to bed early to be one of the first to arrive at Novacare the next day… At least one of the young safeties if not, most of them, will take this very serious and dedicate there all to this competition, iron Sharpens iron… A group of Humgry young talemts with a HECKUVA opportunity in front of them.. This dynamic should elevate these young mens games, and We end up with a few much Improved young DBs at the end of the preseason

  31. 31 MattE said at 10:52 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I could see Chip taking a hard look at 6’3″ Iloka.

  32. 32 GEAGLE said at 11:41 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yeah kid can play…very under rated safety….

    Hopefully we get lucky with one of our young DBs and we don’t even need more safeties next offseason…

  33. 33 Jernst said at 8:20 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    We have a lot of young safeties on the roster. Not sure how much talent we have. Sure some of them run fast and time well. But, it’s not like any of these guys were highly touted “Talents”. We have two 4th rounders, a 5th rounder an UDFA and a 4th round CB converting to safety competing for the 2nd spot.

  34. 34 GEAGLE said at 10:00 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I don’t mind Rowe spending his entire Eagle career at corner, but it THATS the case, I want NO PARTS of him starting at CB in September of his rookie year. He better not start the season as a starting Corner,,, if we want him to commit to corner, THATS perfectly fine by me, but the kid has only 1year of experiemce playing corner, NO WAY do I want to see him start ahead of thurmond or Nolan in September…come mid season, of fragile thurmond gets hurt, or Rowe looks fantastic In practice, we can then insert him into the starting lineup, but NO WAY should he start at corner in September of his rookie year

    Safety competition will be so exciting

    But I’m really looking forward to a notorious practice competitor Byron Maxwell setting a competitive practice tone this summer against our hungry, young, stud Wrs who will try to make a name for themselves in practice going after Byron Maxwell. Maxwell should have all our DBs jacked up to compete against the offense, and you know Agholor, Pope are going to go hard in practice every day,,,..DBs vs WR should be a lot of fun this summer

  35. 35 MattE said at 10:50 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    week 1: Atlanta, Julio Jones/Matt Ryan should be a good test for our 2econdary in a prime time slot.

  36. 36 MattE said at 10:48 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    I could see Rowe’s career arc going the way of Malcolm Jenkins if he can’t find a groove at CB.

  37. 37 Avery Greene said at 9:56 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    PFF did some stats on QBs under pressure and without pressure. Foles did well with neither.

    Eli Manning worst under pressure, Big Ben is the best.

    Aaron Rodgers best with no pressure (no surprise there), and Blake Bortles as the worst with no pressure.


  38. 38 MattE said at 10:47 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    …like i was saying 2 years ago… pretty sure Foles wouldn’t know if a freight train was coming from his blind side or not.

  39. 39 peteike said at 4:15 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Im sill in the let the guy grow camp, everyones an expert judge after a season or two, not time to develop

  40. 40 Media Mike said at 6:19 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Eli Manning is complete garbage. The Giants will suck this year. Especially with that garbage o-line.

  41. 41 ACViking said at 6:30 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    You may be right.

    But you have to credit the guy for not missing a start since 2004.

    The last time an Eagles QB had a streak of not missing a start for at even 5 years was 30 years ago.

  42. 42 Media Mike said at 6:34 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Eli’s streak of starts has been greatly aided by the refs calling roughing the passer with every last sneeze on the guy. If he wasn’t so well protected by the nonsense roughing the passer calls, he’d have been injured by now.

  43. 43 ACViking said at 7:01 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Okay. Interesting theory.

    On the other hand, McNabb blew out his groin with a sports hernia. Blew out his knee on a scamble. Broke his ankle on a scramble.

    Not sure how the “protection” theory would have helped McNabb.

    Not sure how many QBs have lost games to hits in the pocket.

    That’s worth knowing to evaluate the “protection” theory you argued.

  44. 44 Media Mike said at 7:03 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Who knows how much unnecessary wear and tear McNabb took due to extra hits because he was never protected as well as Eli. In either case, F Eli.

  45. 45 GEAGLE said at 10:28 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    how Hype would Everyone be if Mathis showed up today ready to get after it with his team mates…
    If Mathis were to get cut today, is it realistic to expect some other team offer to pay him more then the $5mil he is contracted to be paid from the Eagles?
    I would hate for this to blow up in EVERYONEs face, Eagles forced. To cut him, Mathis ends up having to settle for a contract paying him less then he would have made from the Eagles.. Especially since teams have spent most of their money already..at his age, he probably needed to hit the open market in March to have a real chance at scoring a better contract then his current deal
    It would suck for us to lose him over money -and then see him get lowballed into working for less money

    mathis is being a short sited Jackass…. The argument he needs to make as much as he can for his new family is short sited and foolish… if Mathis gets his head out of his ass, honors his contract like a class act and go on to retire as an eagle, he will have his choice of sports media job waiting for him when he retires if he keeps a good relationship with this city… When ne was hurt last year, he was getting all these media jobs talking for CSN and WIP, which not only does he get paid for but its also giving him a resume to make money working In the media for a decade after he retires… Herremans is smart enough to realize this, but Mathis is way more comfortable in front of a camera then todd…. if Mathis just shuts his mouth, gets his ass to camp so he can get ready to protect Bradford, and continue to be the class act he had been, he won’t have ANY PROBLEMS finding paychecks after his eagle career ends.. He has a very good reputation in this city, with fans and media, it’s probably worth a lot more then a few extra dollars on his last contract, even if someone pays him more then we will, doubt it will be so much more THATS it’s worth jeopardizing his future earning power in this city when football is over… This city made him, he was average at best, obscure name, before he got here. He is making good money, he has made a name for himself as a top Guard and has already started gaining experience for his transition to local media post football career, he better think before this gets ugly and he jepordiIzes his relationship with this city and this franchise

    This isn’t some dumb man that will never FInd work after football.

  46. 46 Bert's Bells said at 10:44 AM on May 26th, 2015:

    “how Hype would Everyone be” should be the name of your blog.

    Get to it.

  47. 47 Michael Winter Cho said at 2:10 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I told him he needs to get his own blog. Burn some of that energy off!

  48. 48 Gary Barnes said at 12:34 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I think Kelce was just giving some typical fodder for the media….would not read much into it. Stuff like Gardner did an outstanding job and Tobin has great potential are questionable IMO…I thought Gardner struggled and Tobin was highly inconsistent. I am glad, however, that Kelce is doing well…we need that OL to be consistently very good to help Bradford and our run game…

  49. 49 Jernst said at 8:12 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Agreed on both counts. I knew Kelce was blowing smoke when he said, “Allen Barbre is a guy who’s played a lot of snaps for us.” He’s played about 3 quarters of a football game in 2 years.

  50. 50 MattE said at 12:46 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Anyone have access to that SI article on Chip?

  51. 51 Anders said at 12:49 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Sometimes, these will get released latter. Im just not going to pay for a full paper, to read 1 article

  52. 52 MattE said at 12:53 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    i saw the notes about it on BGN and wanna read more about this Cliff Harris kid lol.

  53. 53 Bert's Bells said at 12:54 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    And like to learn more about the “pass happy” Chip Kelly offense.

  54. 54 MattE said at 12:56 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    wtf are you talking about mobile QB’s all day lol

  55. 55 Bert's Bells said at 12:58 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I just read the BGN article (24/7 had a paragraph earlier). More Cliff Harris, please!

  56. 56 MattE said at 12:59 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    ” we smoked it all” HAHAHAHAHA

  57. 57 MattE said at 1:01 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Harris was arrested May 3, 2013, outside a Hillsboro Buffalo Wild Wings
    for domestic harassment. He was seen and heard arguing with his
    girlfriend in the restaurant and pushing her outside. The girlfriend did
    not press charges and Harris was released on bail.[13]
    Days later, Harris was cited for speeding, passing in a no-passing
    zone, and driving without a license on his way to his court appearance.
    He told the deputy he was running late for his court appearance, and the
    deputy called the court to notify them of the situation, allowing extra
    time. When he did not appear on time for the adjusted appointment, the
    judge issued a warrant for his arrest. Harris did eventually appear in
    court, and was arrested upon arrival.

    via Wikipedia… I don’t remember this kid, but wow is he funny.

  58. 58 Jernst said at 8:04 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    You don’t remember him? He went undrafted in 2012 after leading the NCAA in interceptions the year prior to his suspension from Oregon. The Eagles actually signed him as an UDFA. Everyone thought we got a total steal. He was cut before the preseason ended. Didn’t play at all in 2012 and then signed with the Jets in January of 2013 and was released less than 3 months later after being arrested for weed possession. He was a total dope.

  59. 59 MattE said at 12:59 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    “My name is Cliff Harris and I’m here to lock shit down.”

  60. 60 MagLikesDraft said at 9:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Which one?



  61. 61 Anders said at 1:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    Sounds like there is some major flaws in that article

  62. 62 Avery Greene said at 1:06 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Someone posted it on Reddit.


  63. 63 MattE said at 1:11 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    worked. nice thanks man.

  64. 64 P_P_K said at 1:17 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I’m looking forward to reading it at my gym, where they have a subscription. From what I saw over at BGN, the author never interviewed Chip. I’m surprised SI would publish such a significant piece without having an interview of the subject.

  65. 65 MattE said at 1:43 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    just finished reading it. wasn’t bad.

  66. 66 ACViking said at 2:12 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Quick heads up on the SI article.

    The author, Greg Bedard, apparently wrote that Walsh came to the NFL in 1979 from Stanford with a new, innovative offense.

    That’s certainly what the available snippet suggests.

    Not true (if that’s what he wrote).

    Walsh designed his WCO back in 1970 as the O.C. of the Bengals in response to losing cannon-armed QB Greg Cook to a torn rotator cuff and having to start the nimble but far weaker-armed Virgil Carter.

    The Bengals continued to run Walsh’s offense even after he left Cincy for Stanford — including in the 1981 SB. Anyone who remembers QB Ken Anderson will recall the great pass completion numbers he put up in the offense Walsh left behind.

    Disclosure: I haven’t read Bedard’s article; but my impression from the snippet I saw is he left out the historical cause for the WCO.

    Hope he didn’t. He writes pretty good stuff.

  67. 67 Anders said at 2:15 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    He left it out

  68. 68 ACViking said at 2:21 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Here’s a 2003 article remembering the late Sid Gilman’s impact on the modern passing game — including Walsh’s creation of the WCO in 1970 in Cincy.

    Good read, too.

  69. 69 Anders said at 2:27 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    A very nice long form article about the Ohio River offense (aka the real name of the West Coast Offense)

  70. 70 Bert's Bells said at 4:19 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    That’s a seriously excellent article. The SI piece on Kelly isn’t very good by most standards but it doesn’t even rate compared to that.

  71. 71 Anders said at 6:22 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Im also very happy that its NFL.com of all places that made this. Shows that there is more to them than just Heath Evans

  72. 72 ACViking said at 4:25 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    A —

    great share.

  73. 73 ACViking said at 3:12 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Screws up the narrative of comparing Kelly — who’s truly had a meteoric rise from college to pro football — to an NFL innovator . . . who actually learned his ABCs from Al Davis in the ’60s.

    Kelly’s offensive scheme is the product of no mentoring — the way Walsh was mentored by Davis.

    But, as others here have said, why let the facts get in the way of a good story.

  74. 74 Anders said at 3:13 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Dont you mean Paul Brown?

  75. 75 ACViking said at 3:15 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    Walsh was on Al Davis’s staff in the ’60s — after Davis had left Sid Gilman’s Chargers staff to take over the Raiders.

    Davis learned about the passing game from Gilman (the real father of every branch of the modern game).

    And Davis schooled Walsh — who left Oakland in ’68, spent a year out of the NFL, and then joined Brown in Cincy.

    Davis himself was a genius at marrying Gilman’s passing scheme to great talent — which Davis was very good at finding.

    From ’68-’70, the Raiders had Lamonica at QB and WRs Belitnikoff and Warren Wells.

    Wells was the biggest, best deep threat I’ve ever seen. He avg 26.8 yards-per-catch one season for the Raiders — even though the defenses were all playing zone to stop the long ball.

  76. 76 Anders said at 3:18 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Thats quite some nice teachers.

  77. 77 D3FB said at 11:45 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Don’t bother I helped Saltveit with the BGN rebuttal piece. Bedards analysis is disappointing.

    -Josh Huff is 5′ 1 and 1/4″
    -James Casey was an important veteran
    -Kenjon Barner will play a major role
    -Chip only wants DEs bigger than 6’6″
    -Huff played outside last year and will be relegated to slot duty this year
    -No mention of JMATT
    -No mention of OL
    -Focuses way too much on the RB’s
    -Completely ignores addition of Maxwell

    It’s well written as you expect from Bedard and soem of the background information is interesting but frankly the entire two pages talking about the offseason are crap.

  78. 78 mksp said at 4:31 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Not really that interesting.

  79. 79 anon said at 12:53 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Marquis Lee with another knee injury, i think chip dodged a bullet there as many blogs projected him to us in the first. He’s the type of guy where it looks like he has the type of nagging soft tissue injuries that make him “injury prone”.

  80. 80 MattE said at 12:56 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    wow… i honestly feel bad for the Jags.

  81. 81 Anders said at 1:01 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Well, that knee was what dropped him in the first place. Really sad, because he sounded like a great kid and the Jags finally seemed to have hit on some draft picks

  82. 82 MattE said at 1:02 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    i liked Allen Robinson

  83. 83 Anders said at 1:06 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I didnt.

    Robinson and Matthews was two guys I liked less than majority of draft twitter and Eagles blogs.

  84. 84 Anders said at 1:41 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    Agholor is gonna be great with that work ethic and with his talent

  85. 85 Avery Greene said at 1:52 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yeah, two WRs with the same work ethic, with Huff pretty much nipping their heels. The three of them are young and could be our WR core for a few years going down the road (all staying healthy of course).

  86. 86 Anders said at 1:55 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Hope Agholor and Matthews can be what I thought Jackson+Maclin would be for us (and I still think they would be great together here under Kelly)

  87. 87 Avery Greene said at 1:57 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    It won’t be for a lack of effort, that’s for sure.

  88. 88 Baloophi said at 2:37 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Doess anyone know how to get superglue offf your fingerrs? Thanksss.

  89. 89 Ark87 said at 2:39 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    fire works. Gets rid of those pesky fingerprints too!

  90. 90 Baloophi said at 3:06 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    “Sound” advice, my friend…

  91. 91 Ben Hert said at 10:18 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    That pun really lit me up.

  92. 92 Jernst said at 3:36 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    and if you really want to solve the problem for good and get rid of those pesky fingers all together, make sure to douse your fingertips in gasoline and nail polish remover prior to applying fire to the affected area.

  93. 93 MattE said at 3:02 PM on May 26th, 2015:


  94. 94 Baloophi said at 3:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I’ve been drinking pretty heavily since this morning… no dice.

  95. 95 Mac said at 3:36 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Alcohol’s endgame in your digestive process is acetone, which is released through your pores. So actually this solution seems viable. However, your posts (and proper grammar) seem to indicate that you have not applied a liberal enough dose to solve the issue at hand.

  96. 96 MattE said at 3:47 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    i would have to concur

  97. 97 ACViking said at 3:03 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    try nail polish remover.

  98. 98 Dave said at 3:04 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    AKA acetone, it works very well.

  99. 99 ACViking said at 3:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:


  100. 100 Baloophi said at 3:06 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Thanks, I’ll raid my makeup bag — MRS. BALOOPHI’S MAKEUP BAG!!!

  101. 101 ACViking said at 3:08 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Being out in LA, I knew you’d be prepared.

  102. 102 MattE said at 3:04 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    gasoline? Is this multiple choice?

  103. 103 ACViking said at 3:07 PM on May 26th, 2015:


    Here’s your chance to become the post-modern day’s Sonny Wortzik.

    Don’t act hastily.

  104. 104 wee2424 said at 3:22 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Acetone, nail polish.

  105. 105 MagLikesDraft said at 9:11 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Nail polish remover is quite useful even without nail polish. It works quite well with price tags/sticky store stock numbers and I’ve been trying it on some construction adhesive. With mixed results, but nothing else has worked so far.

  106. 106 wee2424 said at 9:45 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Acetone is great for construction adhesive. That was when the adhesive was on steel though.

    Used it all the time when I was putting a rubber sound reducing material on tanks for ultra sonic cleaning machines.

    Invest in some, volume wise it’s cheaper then nail polish.

  107. 107 A_T_G said at 5:54 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Drive to Home Depot. Apply more Superglue to your fingers in the parking lot. Go in and shake hands with a sales associate while asking him the same question.

  108. 108 Baloophi said at 6:47 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    THESE are words of wisdom! I’ll let you know how it goes (and whether I manage to unstick my hands from the steering wheel)…

  109. 109 ACViking said at 6:51 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Take a selfie with the HD guy.

  110. 110 Baloophi said at 7:23 PM on May 26th, 2015:


  111. 111 D3FB said at 11:39 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    If he doesn’t know the answer, deamand to speak to Arthur Blank directly.

    Then hold Blank hostage until he trades us his first round pick next year for Malcolm Bunche.

  112. 112 botto said at 2:46 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Boy its fun to read on the rams site how they feel about Foles…
    they think he will be there best qb ever because he had the 27-2 season and was 6-2 before he got hurt. oh wait that sounds pretty good.
    I hope he does well until we meet in the playoffs. gurly will help.

  113. 113 Jernst said at 3:34 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Foles isn’t bad at all, I’m actually surprised Chip gave up on him so quickly as a lot of his problems (athleticism aside) seemed fixable (ie drifting backward and not setting his feet properly). In my opinion his real skill is probably somewhere between 27-2 and the inaccurate, poor pocket presence mess we saw last year (and he did look terribly off despite his W/L record last year). His ceiling though is probably a lot closer to Brad Johnson that a Kurt Warner, especially in an offense like the Rams as opposed to Chip Kelly’s offense.

    It should be interesting to see how his career shakes out. We’ve seen how Chips system can inflate QBs stats when they come from other teams or other systems, but this will be the first time we really get to see a QB go from Chip’s offense to another one. I bet Foles has a long career, either as the Rams starter or as a journeyman like Brad Johnson, but I highly doubt that he’ll ever be skilled enough or surrounded with enough talent and in a system that will allow him to put up the kind of numbers he did in 2013.

  114. 114 Anders said at 3:35 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Problem is, Foles problems have persisted since college, so it is highly unlikely that he could fix em.

  115. 115 MattE said at 3:49 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yeah i did not like how Foles looked in the pocket at all last year.

  116. 116 Fufina said at 3:51 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    QB’s take 5+ years to evolve and become who they can be, look at Rothlesberger – he is getting better and fixing flaws in his game 10 years later and still being able to improve. Think Foles had enough size/arm basic mobility to be a QB at the NFL level and he has shown he can win games and deal with NFL pressure. He has shown toughness and is able to read the game.

    His technique needs refinement but that can and does improve with time and reps, i swear so many of the ‘QB’ problems teams have is not giving players time to develop and refine their technique before coming to a judgement

    I think the decision to trade Foles has a lot more to do with what they think Bradford can become than what Foles is or could achieve.

  117. 117 GEAGLE said at 4:52 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    People have really lost their minds with seeking instant gratification from the hardest position to play in all sports…

    If it were up to me, we wouldn’t even see a QB his first 3 years, he would be burried on the bench next to the QB coach at all times, working on his craft for 3years away from the public eye… It has really gotten out of control with QBs, mostly because young QBs who had stacked rosters around them were able to win from day one as virtual game managers..,

    You dumb enough to spend a. First round 1!pick on an umder developed QB like EJ Manuel and if that’s not bad enough you go “full retard” and start him as a rookie and it’s ñow year 3 and they are close to quitting on him? He should have NEVER even played yet… This should be his last year learning on the bench and they should spend 2016, 2017 seeing what you have. I have never been an EJ Manuel fan or believer, but you completely ruined and wasted him as a QB prospect with how you handled him,.. I’d you believed in his talent, you should have patiently developed that talent and give the kid a chance to have success… Instead the kid is a year away from becoming a #2 or #3 QB, and the bills are still looking for QBs…
    People have gone bat shit crazy with their expectations of ypung QBs… Friggim EJ manuel only had to read half of the field in college, WTF is going thru your mind to trott him out there as a rookie? It’s out of control

  118. 118 76mustang said at 6:36 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    So do you view Matt Barkley in the same manner? This is year 3 (which would be another development year) – what should the expectations be this year?

    What is sorely missing is a developmental league, and the game day and overall rosters need to be expanded to allow teams to further develop and stash projects…

  119. 119 Jernst said at 7:22 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Unfortunately, IMHO, Barkley just doesn’t seem to have the necessary arm strength and skill to make the throws at this level. I’ll give him a pass for all the INTs he threw as a rookie thrown into a terrible situation. But, he just doesn’t look like he physically, has the chops to succeed.

  120. 120 GEAGLE said at 8:48 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I always hated Barklwy, but you often see me write about how I won’t rule him out yet because I would expect him to start showing u improvement around year 3… I never Believed in Narkley before that he is a. Eagle, but since we drafted him, yes I would prefer he remain on the roster this year so he can continue to develop.., unless a smart QB coach like chip has reached the point where he doesn’t want to continue investing in his development,… Im one of the few who think we haven’t even seen close to Barleys best yet…. Will his best be good enough? I wouldn’t bet on it, but we developed him for two years, might as well see it thru and see what he can be Next summer going Into year 4 before we quit on him
    Tm TEBOW certainly isnt good enough to make me want to quit devolving Barkley before year 3… If you aren’t going to develop a young QBA for 3, preferably 4 years, then you are a jackass for drafting him..
    So while i can’t stand Barkley, I’ll be pissed if we stop developing him over a scab like Tebow

  121. 121 Jernst said at 7:18 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yea, I agree completely. It used to be common knowledge that QBs needed a few years to sit and develop. The Eagles even insisted on playing Doug Pederson for the majority of McNabbs first year and he was atrocious. But, Andy was at least smart enough to see the long game and not ruin McNabb early in the process.

    And, like you said, the one’s that have early success are all on stacked teams with strong offensive lines, running games and excellent defenses. Those QBs can go through growing pains while on the field because they are protected. They don’t deal with much pressure when they drop back, they’re not asked to carry their team or throw 35 times a game and they can still build confidence and develop good habits and progress slowly while winning football games because their defenses keep the score low and their running game provides a much needed crutch.
    These crappy teams that take QBs in the top of the first round and just throw them into the fire to be pummeled behind patch work offensive lines, ruin these guys, they lose confidence, they can’t learn because their mind is racing trying to catch up to speed while being rushed and asked to throw 30+ times a game. It’s a shame. People forget that all experience is not the same when it comes to development. You can develop bad habits just as easy, if not easier, than developing good habits.

  122. 122 Fufina said at 7:55 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Thing is you have an advantage when you use young QB’s athleticism to enhance the run game and to use the extra attention he attracts to open up easy passes. Especially year 1 when there is not much tape and DC’s are learning a QB’s weaknesses you can have a lot of success.

    Take Cam Newton – He has been carrying teams on his shoulders since highschool, working for Coaches that need and demand wins – not long term development.

    He came into the league with a range of mechanical issues and lack of feel for the passing game. 2 years rebuilding his throwing motion and studying tape would give a special QB with fantastic physical tools and athleticism. But they needed wins now, and his long term flaws have never been addressed. There is not enough time in an off season to rebuild a throwing motion and inbed the muscle memory, so you have to make incremental changes but if the beginning product is not good enough you will struggle to get there in the end.

    Teams complain about rawer and rawer QB’s coming into the league but do not give them the time to develop to resolve that – is crazy.

  123. 123 Jernst said at 7:07 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    It is definitely concerning that every amateur observer last year could tell you the problems with Foles mechanics and they never went away. Even when the line started getting healthy/playing better he continued to get skiddish and bail backwards, throwing off his back foot. But, not all hope is lost. He did not do those things that much in 2013.

    Check out this video cut up of all his plays from 2013 while he was under pressure. It looks nothing like the nick we saw last year.


  124. 124 GEAGLE said at 3:55 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    They better protect him or it won’t matter.. Foles got hurt and missed time in each of his first 3 seasons
    2012 the injury mess, Aindy Reid debacle ended with a broken hand
    2013 behind the top OL in the NFL, played half the season missed a game and a half to a concussion
    2014 his collarbone broke.. 2014 wasn’t really his fault. Played injured most of the year and I’m surprised that OL injury mess didn’t get him killed

    nick is a tough SOB who will play hurt… But for a big strong kid it’s disappointing to see him get injured each year..
    Gurley should help, but he won’t be ready on opening day.. Greg Robinson has Lane type potential… Hopefully the Rams OL keeps him healthy.. He doesn’t have a Jeremy Maclin of Desean type of veteran stud
    Maybe we can convince the Rams that his chemistry with Riley Cooper is omportant, he needs Riley to be comfortable lol(fingers crossed),.. We like Foles so much and want to see him succeed that we will do you a kindness and trade you Riley Cooper for Tavon Austin lol

  125. 125 botto said at 5:13 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    im rooting for foles to do well, and I agree we should help him out with cooper going to St Louis. great plan

  126. 126 OldDocMcQuackadillyBlip said at 6:02 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    He seems like a great guy, but he lost me a bit with repeating “I know the mistakes I made and just need to work to correct them” ad nauseum.

    Also, the extent to which some people defended him last year even when he was apparently oblivious to wide open receivers, or flinging passes to men paid by different franchises soured me on him a bit.

    Also also: #uber.

    Still hope things work out for him in STL though.

  127. 127 Jason said at 9:22 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    They ought to hire Ruben Frank for CSN St. Louis so he can amplify their delusion.

  128. 128 GEAGLE said at 4:57 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    PHillymag posted an article where they intwrview a top,ACL surgeon to talk about Bradford..it should make you feel a little better about his odds of coming back healthy… It’s interesting that they found that you are at a higher risk of injuring your healthy knee, then reinjuring your surgically repaired ACL…. With all our ACL problems, it’s definitely a good read

  129. 129 Jernst said at 6:44 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I’m cautiously optimistic about Bradford’s knee, but I know a lot of orthopedic surgeons that have come to opposite conclusions to the one in that article. Not saying either position is wrong. There really aren’t any good data or studies on the matter that control for age, type and level of rehab, type of sport, level of physical stress following the repair (playing in the NFL is a lot different than a typical civilian getting an ACL repaired and then playing golf on the weekends or going for the occasional jog). And, there’s no studies I know of that look solely at professional football players.

    That being said…not to be a Debby Downer, but here’s some conflicting studies, just for the sake of playing devil’s advocate to what the guy interviewed by phillymag said.

    “The incidence of a second injury to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) within the first 12 months after ACL reconstruction and return to sport in a young, active population has been reported to be 15 times greater than a previously uninjured cohort. Within 24 months after the first injury, previously injured athletes were 6 times more likely to injure an ACL than the control group.”

    Two other separate UNC studies found that 20.4% and 31% of athletes that injured their ACLs in college respectively had another ACL injury requiring surgery during their college careers:



    Only 3% of all UNC college-athletes required ACL surgery during timeframe of the second study.

    Lot’s of problems with all these studies, but the truth is probably somewhere in between and the risk probably isn’t substantially different whether he tore the ACL zero times or 20 times. Especially at a position like QB where there’s not much planting and cutting and most tears will end up happening when a 300 pound lineman falls on the knee and bends it the wrong way, which it probably wouldn’t matter at that point if the ligament was made out of adamantium, it’s going to tear.

  130. 130 ACViking said at 6:57 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Excellent stuff.

    Bradford had a .78% chance of a double ACL injury (per the Penn physician’s data). About three-quarters of one percent.

    Multiply that number (.00078) by the likelihood of a high ankle sprain followed by a shoulder injury and another leg injury . . .

    And you’re somewhere in the zone of Bradford’s injury track record being 1 in a million.

    You’d like to think the odds, at some point, will turn in his favor.

  131. 131 Fufina said at 7:30 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Injuries and the narratives we make about them are so hard to come to defined opinions on.

    There is a massive statistical variance based of chance, If you have a 10% chance of having a major injury in any one season, some guys will have 3 in a 5 year span, many have none, the very unlucky will have 5. Especially with Bone and tendon injuries they tend to be particularly random and high variance.

    Area’s where you tend to have significant reinjury risk is where you too swift in your recovery work, or have damaged multiple different elements causing a very complicated rehabilitation.

    However genetics, preparation, fitness, body awareness can all have significant impacts, some people are born with thicker bones and tendons, better preparation and fitness can increase injury risk (extreme strength actually increases injury risk). Another hugely underrated aspect is body control and awareness, people with better sense and feel for contact can minimise or protect themselves more. I saw 2-3 years ago an article that showed Linemen with a wrestling background had a small but statistically relevant decrease in injury risk.

    Muscle injuries are more likely to have people with higher risk profiles – some people just more easily tear muscles, and especially if you have multiple injuries to the same muscle scar tissue build up can cause long term weakness.

    So in summary – it is damn complicated and very hard to predict. Bradford is a much smaller injury risk than people are saying (he has at least had 2 injury free years – something no Philly QB can say over the last 5 years), but it is possible that he just does not have a very sturdy frame that means he will always carry a higher risk.

  132. 132 MagLikesDraft said at 9:16 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Just something to think about.


  133. 133 jamesbondage said at 8:35 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    that was amazing. i have new found respect for logan mankins

  134. 134 anon said at 6:34 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    It’s sounding like Nelson is Jordan Matthews but on crack with the work ethic. Cabs to practice everyday to get there early. Super aggressive with learning playbook, studying, talking to Jordan, etc.

  135. 135 ACViking said at 6:51 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Example of the classic American success story: Child of immigrant family that busts tail to give their kids a better life.

    Still what makes America the place to which so many people want to come.

  136. 136 anon said at 6:55 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    and the following generation everyone reverts to the mean.

  137. 137 ACViking said at 6:58 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    That’s certainly my excuse!!!

  138. 138 botto said at 7:38 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    all the hard work by the immigrant family and they hit the lottery with a kid picked in round 1 of the NFL draft!
    even classic-er…

  139. 139 RobNE said at 9:08 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I hear Godfather music.

  140. 140 SteveH said at 11:10 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Mmmmm… I have worked pretty extensively with illegal immigrants through my entire working life, people from all over central and south America, and I can say with confidence that, at least people from those locations, are almost exclusively fleeing incredible violence and poverty when they come here (or, in a couple of especially tragic cases, here because they have a relative who needs medical treatment that they can’t afford).

    And when they arrive, they are almost always exploited to a nauseating degree.

    Maybe their children, or their children’s children will experience a better life in America, but lets not lose sight of what “busting your tail” usually means for a huge quantity of people who are immigrants.

  141. 141 Nailed it! said at 11:35 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Have you read Malcolm Galdwell’s David And Goliath? He has a great chapter on this exact story. Great read.

  142. 142 Jernst said at 6:52 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Even if we miss out on a great talent every now and then, I love the fact, that with all these guys, we’ve basically eliminated the possibility of having a talented draft pick fail because their hearts not in it or they aren’t willing to put the necessary work in. The Danny Watkins, Shawn Andrews and Freddie Mitchell’s of the world would never have been drafted by Chip.

    If you believe the draft is a total crap shoot, and all evidence points that way, the best way to maximize success will be to minimize one of the major reasons talented players end up busting, which in my mind is clearly lack of dedication and poor mental makeup for the demands of professional football.

    Almost every great player in the league is great because they wanted to be great, because they needed to be great and were driven to become great. Few players can achieve success, let alone sustain success, without that drive, no matter how talented. Even head cases like TO were extremely dedicated to their craft and worked harder than anyone else to get to the level that they did.

  143. 143 P_P_K said at 7:58 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Great post.

  144. 144 Jernst said at 10:41 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Thanks! I just think the emphasis on character in draft picks is so underrated. When you’re talking about the top 50-60 college prospects, heck the top 100-200 prospects, nearly every single one of these guys has the physical skill to play in the NFL. There’s players who run 4.3 and 4.4 forties and 6’9″ 300 pound behemoths that are freakishly athletic that last until the end of the draft.

    So why do so many of them fail to make it? It can’t all be because they’re just pure athletes that don’t have football skill. The majority of these guys have been star football players since they were preteens. The thing that seems to tank more careers than anything else is lack of dedication, poor mental make-up, inability to learn the nuances of the game, off field shenanigans and injuries.

    So how does Chip combat this? He removes the biggest variable and hinderance to success by only taking the most insanely dedicated players that live, sleep, eat and breathe football and he invests heavily in the most cutting edge injury prevention and rehabilitation program that science and a nearly unlimited budget can provide. It’d be genius if it wasn’t so damned obvious. Just makes so much sense to me.

  145. 145 Michael Winter Cho said at 11:29 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I don’t know… I guess I’m a little scarred by watching too many early 2000s blue-collar Reid teams get beat by head case teams that were more talented.

  146. 146 Jernst said at 2:17 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    The early 2000 teams were truly blue collar and they rarely lost period. And, out of the teams they ultimately lost to in the post season, only the Rams were clearly more talented, but no less blue collar.
    The Brad Johnson led Bucs were not more talented, the Jake Delhomme Panthers weren’t more talented, and besides Tom Brady, I’d take the 2004 Eagles squad over the Patriots. The Eagles from 2005-2012 were decidedly less blue collar.

    But, really, the point I was trying to make wasn’t about being blue collar and foregoing talent. It’s about focusing on a love for the game and desire to succeed. Those are too, albeit slightly different, things. Players that put in the necessary work to be great will have a lower bust potential, and will succeed more often than players with questionable work ethic. Therefore, the new drafting strategy will produce more hits and less busts, making the team more talented.

    I believe that many of our draft misses in Andy’s years here were a direct results of taking less than dedicated football players and tweeners that didn’t have the right measurables.

    No one denies that Freddie Mitchell was a talented prospect coming out, but he failed because he didn’t work hard enough. Danny Watkins had all the talent in the world but was an epic bust because he didn’t care enough about football and wanted to be a fireman instead. Jaiquawn Jarrett was never going to be fast enough to cover WRs, Bryan Smith was never going to be big enough to play defensive end. And so on.

  147. 147 jaws80 said at 11:54 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    it is so strange still that such elite athletes can be such headcases, and all too often just plain vile. i do appreciate Chip’s focus on dedication to football. And i think too often people dont know what Chip, (i think) means by culture. it is not necessarily choir boys, but i think it can be boiled down to “dedication to football”.
    T.O. would be a good test case for Chip. It is possible that T.O.’s dedication to football would have been enough for Chip to keep him around, and put up with his Diva(ness).

  148. 148 eagleyankfan said at 7:24 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    I get we praise the athletes that do this(and we should). Shouldn’t all of them be doing this? When they get cut after 3 years(is that the avg life time in the nfl) they should know why. Not only athletes should be doing this – everybody who works should be doing this….

  149. 149 anon said at 7:54 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Should we have a Marcus Mariota contract watch? Starting OTA and still have started negotiating your deal? Weird?

  150. 150 Fufina said at 8:06 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Is just offset language, Winston allowed salary offset language in his contract (was probably agreed pre draft due to some of his character issues), but Jags did not put any of offsets on their 3rd pick. Mariota’s Agent wants a fully guaranteed no offset contract (normal for the 2nd pick), Titans are saying Buc’s got offsets on the 1st pick you should do the same.

    It is not an issue until Training Camp, but it is a stupid situation from the Titans and really since so much of the contract is signing bonus, and you are not cutting Mariota at least until year 3 of the contract even if he is awful you are talking about saving max ~$4m (that assumes he signs for more or the same money which is unlikely because you would trade him if a team would value him that much).

  151. 151 botto said at 8:28 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    so you are saying they are looking for a trade partner?

  152. 152 Fufina said at 8:35 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Hahaha no, i am saying they are a bad organisation. No way it escalates that badly. Lets be honest it is just normal contract games from each side, go back to 2009 and no one would blink an eye at it. Think Mariota will get his full offset language in the end and will be done well before camp.

  153. 153 Bert's Bells said at 11:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yup, dumb on the Titans part. If MM tanks they’ve got worse problems than a few million in offset guarantees.

  154. 154 Anders said at 5:39 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    That other stupid part is, that off set is only relevant if Mariota blows and is cut before the last year.

    As we have seen, no QB, no matter how bad he plays, will still get 4 years to correct him self when he is picked as high.

    Also if they are worrying that he might blow and needs to be cut in 3 years, why the fuck did they pick him?

  155. 155 Jernst said at 9:04 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Especially considering the fact that there’s almost nothing to negotiate with the new collective bargaining agreement. How great would it be if he John Elway’s his way to the Eagles and we end up getting him for peanuts compared to what we originally offered. It’d be completely shocking if he didn’t sign soon though.

  156. 156 GEAGLE said at 9:01 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Athe more Info is released, the more Ray McDonald seems like “Prince charming”… The latest is he kicked down a woman’s bedroom door, Assaulted the woman, he was said to be “trying to take off with her baby”… So ontop of 3rd woman claiming he assaulted her in 9 months, might add attempted kidnapping to prince Charmings rap sheet,… This is a 300lb 31yr old scumbag who’s mother had to stand up for him publically and try to tell people that her son isnt a bad guy, and that he was innocent… Then Vic Fangio vouched for him… And at 3:40 in the morning, Prince Charming is assaulting woman and trying to kidnapp babies…..
    A grown man who’s mother had to stick up for him publically After his last assault on a woman, goes and makes his mother look like an idiot publically, and does this?
    Thankfully he gets a dose of karma, non of his bears contract was GUARENTEED… So hopefully Prince charming has taken care of his finances, because he will never cash another NFL pay check again..,,, lol I hear UPS is hiring….

  157. 157 anon said at 9:05 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    can you kidnap you’re own kid? Who knows if the woman was doing something crazy, we have literally 0 details. Bears wasted no time dropping him though, but i was ok with that.

  158. 158 GEAGLE said at 9:13 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    I didn’t hear that it was his kid…did you hear that? With his history, the fact you signed him on Zero Tolerence, no guarentees,, the moment his name appeared in the news I would cut him,. I wouldn’t even wait to hear the report.. If he happened to make the news for helping an old lady cross the street, oh well, you are cut… He was given a 3rd Chance, he should be invisible except when he is on the field,..

  159. 159 MagLikesDraft said at 9:19 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Yes you can be charged with kidnapping your own child if the other parent has legal custody.

  160. 160 Bert's Bells said at 11:02 PM on May 26th, 2015:

    Didn’t Prince Charming rape some broad while she was drugged unconscious? Good parallel.

  161. 161 Bob Scatchard said at 12:47 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Anybody concerned about the affects of the new 2 point rule on the o-line? With the OL seeing 80 more snaps of d-line teeing off pn the 2 pt conversions, I expect alot more OL injuries this year around the NFL and depth will be hard to come by for many teams. I do like the rule and am excited to see what Chip plans to do (Tebow?). Expecting our D to also score this year.

  162. 162 Jernst said at 2:40 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Even if teams went for 2 after every single TD they’d only average 3 extra plays per game (since the average team scores 23 points per game). That’s 48 extra plays a year. The average team runs 74 plays per game. So were talking a little over an extra half of football per year. And, that’s if you go for 2 every single time. At most, I’d expect a team to average 1 maybe 2 tries per game of I’m being extra generous. And, calling them extra plays isn’t really accurate since the starting line still lines up and blocks for the extra point even if they don’t go for two.

  163. 163 Bob Scatchard said at 6:56 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    See above…

  164. 164 Anders said at 5:37 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    There is no correlation between injuries and snaps played on offense.

  165. 165 Bob Scatchard said at 6:55 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    I don,t remember if it was on PFT or NFL.com that a couple of former O linemen were discussing that on the PAT’s are the hardest to deal with as the d-linemen will even have more incentive with the defense now able to score. Teams like the jags, titans and browns will pull down the # of plays per game where the d-men can just attack, but i don’t think 5 plays per game is too many for good offense like the Eagles….we’ll see how it plays out.

  166. 166 Jernst said at 2:29 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Why do so many players bust after being drafted high? In my opinion there’s three issues that come up again and again: Mental Make up (ie intelligence, dedication, work ethic), Poor measurables for their position, and Injuries. So it makes sense that Chip puts such emphasis on Measurables, Dedication to Football, and preventing and rehabbing injuries.

    There’s been lots of hand wringing over Chip’s strict adherence to measurables. Some of which I get. I hate to see players that have already proven themselves to be good players, like Boykin, sit on the bench while a taller player like Fletcher gets burned repeatedly, just because…measureables. But, when it comes to the draft, it makes total sense to bet on the high odds and avoid players that have measureables that are not routinely associated with success at their particular position.

    Just look at the top 2 draft picks (players you’d fully expect to make long term contributions to your team) from each draft from the last regime that failed to make it and see if you see any trends in why they failed (Measurables, Dedication/Work Ethic, Injuries):

    Barry Gardner: 6’ tall, 242 llbs and ran a 4.73 forty (remember him trying to cover Joe Jurevicious in the NFCCG). Too slow. No special athletic traits. He couldn’t cover anyone. And, he was plagued by mental mistakes according to a quote by Jim Johnson, “You just can’t start guys who keep making the same mistakes.” – Measurables.

    Bobbie Williams: No issues with measurables, had some nagging injuries early on and was a late bloomer who played well for years in Cincinnati once he got healthy. – Injuries.

    Corey Simon: All the talent in the world, played really well initially, then…ate himself out of the league. When he wasn’t continuously holding out he was stuffing his face and showing up to work completely out of shape. By the time he was traded many questioned if he even wanted to play football at all. – Work Ethic/Dedication.

    Todd Pinkston: Softest football player I’ve ever seen. Completely scared of contact and never sacrificed his body to make a catch. Career ended when he never recovered from an Achilles tear. – Dedication, Injuries.

    Freddie Mitchell: An absolute nut case that never learned the playbook because he was too busy thanking his hands to put in the effort. I’m 100% certain that Freddie would be homeless and engaged in a passionate conversation with himself right now if it wasn’t for football. – Work Ethic.

    Quinton Caver: regularly showed up late to practice and meetings as a rookie. After getting a $1.05 million dollar signing bonus, Caver admitted that he never bothered to purchase an alarm clock. Here are his own words regarding the alarm clock issue going into his second year, “I didn’t have one last year,” Caver said in July. “It’s kind of hard to sleep at night when you’re waking up every 30 minutes, thinking you’re going to oversleep.” That’s brilliant! You literally can’t make up something so stupid. – Work Ethic

    Lito Shepherd: three great years after being drafted, followed by three years plagued by injuries. – Injuries

    Michael Lewis: 4.6 sec 40 yard dash. Got eaten alive in coverage. At almost 230 pounds he was like a LB playing safety – Measurables.

    Jerome McDougal: Injuries killed his career. – Injuries.

    LJ Smith: Constantly nursing minor injuries and never really showed much focus or improvement. Dropped about a million passes and never learned how to block. – Work Ethic.

    Shawn Andrews: Head case with all the talent in the world but no love for the game and would rather get his Michael Phelps on. – Dedication/Work Ethic.

    Matt McCoy: 6’ 232 llbs, 4.62 40 yard dash, could never get off a block. His entire career was marred by one injury after another. – Measurables, Injuries.

    Broderick Bunkley: Maturity issues coming out of college, an arrest, an academic suspension, had a reputation of needing to be monitored and motivated at FSU, he then held out most of training camp his rookie year and showed up out of shape. Missed a team flight to pick up fried chicken on the way to the airport. Was undersized playing DT at 280 pounds in college. Later in his career was plagued by injuries. Never seemed to put in the work or put it all together despite plenty of skill. – Work Ethic.

    Winston Justice: Maturity issues coming out of college with 2 arrest while at USC getting him kicked out of school in 2004. Had been picked up for soliciting a prostitute prior to enrolling at USC. Was woefully unprepared when he initially got a chance to start. Repeated false start penalties. Then when he finally got his head on straight he was derailed by a knee injury. – Work Ethic, Injuries.

    Kevin Kolb: Lacked arm strength, derailed by recurrent concussions. – Measureables, Injuries.

    Victor Abiamiri: Had a dislocated wrist, a Lis Franc injury, petellar tendonitis, a severe back sprain a knee injury requiring microfracture surgery and a ruptured achilles tendon all in just four seasons. – Injuries.

    Trevor Laws: undersized DT, was plagued by poor effort, lack of motivation and minor soft tissue injuries. – Work Ethic.

    DeSean Jackson: Supreme talent, constant lack of effort and issues with quitting on his team and not buying in eventually landed him in DC. – Work Ethic.

    Bryan Smith: 6’1” 250 llb defensive end, finished career with 3 tackles as he was completely overmatched physically. – Measurables.

    Brandon Graham: undersized DE, injuries derailed him early, possible redemption story underway. – Injuries.

    Nate Allen: Never recovered completely from his torn petellar tendon, never realized that QBs are allowed to fake a hand off and then attempt a forward pass. – Injuries, ocular blindness to playaction.

    Danny Watkins: Much more interested in being a fireman than a professional football player. – Dedication/Work Ethic.

    Jaiquaan Jarrett: 4.62 40 yard dash. Too slow. – Measureables.

    No drafting strategy is fool proof, but just eliminating the players that lack the drive necessary to excell and prioritizing players that will work their butt off could eliminate half these out right misses.

  167. 167 Media Mike said at 5:33 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    That list is walking me down memory lane in a bad way!

    And outside of forcing the Marcus Smith pick a round early rather than acquiring more picks, Kelly has done a nice job selecting players thus far. And Smith is a guy I liked a lot going into the draft, but kept seeing him go to the Eagles in the 2nd. I’ve gone round and round with a few people here on taking a guard rather than Hicks in the 3rd round and taking Hicks in the 4th rather than trading out of that pick to get Detroit’s 3rd next year, but that is a small issue as well.

  168. 168 Anders said at 6:11 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Andrews was 100% injuries. Those back injuries sapped everything out of him.

    Bryan Smith was a 3rd round pick, why is he even included?

    Why is Jackson part of the bust list?

    Michael Lewis was mental, he made the pro bowl and then feel of the face of the earth

  169. 169 Jernst said at 3:30 PM on May 28th, 2015:

    Andrews had a lot to do with injuries…he also had a lot to do with his mental make up. He missed an entire off season with depression issues prior to his back injuries if I remember correctly.

    Bryan Smith was a 3rd rounder…whoops. Still a wasted 3rd rounder that never had a chance given his size.

    It’s not a list of busts. It’s a list of high picks and reasons why we ended up having problems with them. Jackson was a hit. He’s the exception that sometimes guys with questionable effort and character can still be dynamic players. But, he also quit on his team during a contract hold out and ended up being benched and he was cut for nothing recently in part due to his work ethic/desire to buy in. Great player. Not a bust by any means, but an example of a guy that we had problems with at different points due to his attitude.

    Michael Lewis was also mental. He quit mid season on the 49ers as well. But being very stiff and a LBer at safety didn’t help his ability to cover. He just seemed to never be able to mentally recover when he got burned deep in a game.

  170. 170 Fufina said at 7:03 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Think the biggest issue is there is huge projection from college to NFL, the game is bigger faster and far more complex. Players have to evolve and develop their games and some just cannot do that. You can mitigate the risks by doing as you said – high character guys with good measurables and good football intelligence, but even then so much is mental in the sport – having to make a whole series of choices correctly in a 3-5 second window to execute a play correctly, and that is so very hard to project with limited information.

  171. 171 CrackSammich said at 11:49 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Seems like a lot of answers rewriting the initial question to me.

  172. 172 scratcherk said at 8:00 AM on May 27th, 2015:

    Tashaun Gipson. Make it happen.