PHI 40, BAL 17
Posted: August 22nd, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 133 Comments »Another week, another butt-kicking. I could get used to this.
The Eagles out-played the Ravens on offense, defense and STs. Sam Bradford was able to get in and shake off some rust. He took some hits and worked his way through them. Several backups improved from last week. Maybe most importantly, there weren’t any key injuries.
All in all, a terrific night.
_
Speaking of hits, Suggs has to know he’s going to get flagged for that hit on the R/O every time. I sympathize with the defensive players, because it’s not really fair to them, but he should know better by now.
Didn’t Suggs get flagged for going low? he always does that, did it last year to Le’veon Bell when his forward progress was stopped and Suggs just dove at the back of his knee. He’s a really good player, but he does try to take out guys knees
Got flagged for hitting the QB on a R/O play. Bradford handed off and then got crushed. Official call was roughing the passer which is actually B.S. since Bradford wasn’t a passer, but the NFL is gonna flag that every time.
yea i saw the play, but i figured they called it roughing the passer because he hit him at the knees?
Would have to go back and watch, but I don’t think the NFL cares where you hit a QB. If he doesn’t have the ball, it’s going to be flagged more often than not.
I thought there was a rule the NFL instituted like 2 years ago saying a defender cannot hit the QB at the knees or below, although i think it’s a ref judgement whether or not a defender was aiming fort he knees……i could be wrong but whatever
They said that on the TV feed.
I got the Raven’s feed and all they talked about was how ‘that can’t be a penalty’ 😛
haha, i feel as if im shortchanging the age of this rule too. Think it was put in the year after Brady went down in Kansas City, which started the Matt Cassel hype train. Brady got hit low and tore the ol’ acl
You’re exactly right, it’s affectionately known as the “Tom Brady” rule
Suggs just admitted to targeting Bradfords knees… Dirty play
Talented player, but an a$$clown.
Also, hope Goodell was actually listening and heavily fines him. Given that it’s Goodell, probably will ignore it.
for sure it was and i was afraid even during these joint practices he would pull some stupid crap like that. It’s been the Ravens M.O. for 15 years now, always been a dirty whiny team
I don’t care about the fact it was a read-option play because Suggs just put his helmet down and aimed at the knee, the guy has always played dirty
The NFL does care where a players hit a QB, no head or knees and below. If Suggs would have wrapped him up at the waist or midsection with a sound tackle, it would or should have been no call. It was a shit hit and he deserved the flag for it.
I know what the rules are and I’m not defending the hit. I believe the NFL tends to err on the side of ‘you hit the qb too hard, penalty’ instead of the letter of the rules.
If you knew what the rules were, you wouldn’t have said “I don’t think the NFL cares where you hit a QB” because it clearly does care. They even made a rule about it. The rule states that you can’t hit a quarterback at the knees or below.
Now I agree that the NFL tends to protect QBs and the refs err on the side of caution, but that doesn’t apply here because Suggs clearly hit Bradford in a way that ran contrary to the NFL rules and he was flagged for it. It’s pretty cut and dry and it has nothing to do with the Read Option or cautionary flaggings.
No, I know the rules. I also know that when it’s anywhere close, the NFL tends to ignore the rulebook and side with protecting their QB’s. That’s why I made the ‘they don’t really care’ comment. If a play looks like it could hurt a QB anymore, the refs are hardwired to throw a flag whether it was a clean hit or not.
The Suggs hit was clearly both late and low. From a letter of the law perspective, it was the low part that should have drawn the flag as the ‘late’ part was a lot closer in real time then it looks in freeze frame or slow motion. Based on how I’ve seen other refs call the play, they would have thrown the flag if Bradford had been hit in the numbers with a shoulder. Not only that, the NFL would have defended the call even had it been even closer.
Why don’t people get this simple idea? Quarterbacks are easy to tackle if they are actually runners
It’s unnecessary roughness. If Bradford hadn’t have handed off yet, then sure Suggs can hit him. He had already handed off to the RB and was moving away from the play, not acting as a blocker. Defenders can’t take cheap shots on QBs on regular run plays. It’s not any different with the read option unless the QB has the ball or is acting as a blocker. Yes, it’s tough for the defender. They have to stop their momentum. That’s no different than when they’re called for roughing the passer on pass plays where the QB throws the ball at the last minute.
Not disagreeing, Greg. I think it’s a tough call, mostly because the R/O specifically is a play fake where you’re trying to make the defense believe you still have the ball. If he’s still faking, technically it’s not supposed to be a foul, but that’s almost impossible to adjudicate. Refs are going to go ahead and flag it 99% of the time.
It was a close call. The RB had already secured the ball IMO, and thus the fake was over. Tough life for defenders in the NFL.
Bradford not being known for running is actually an advantage here. Refs are less likely to protect guys they consider runners.
NO player wants guys going after their knees. No sympathy, they dont want blockers going for their knees.
GEAGLE was right about the shot to the jaw. Chip said Bradford came off with a bloody lip
Parkey wasn’t hurt, correct? They just wanted to let Kip Smith try a few?
That is what Spuds said from the sidelines.
Thank god. I don’t think Smith has any shot at anything outside of 35 yards.
Thank God.
What was that about lactose intolerant from Chip?
The DBs don’t bite on “the cheese” in front of them. Whatever the hell that means. I guess don’t bite on the understuff stuff and get beat deep.
I hope they take a bite out of the cheese next week.
This cheese talk is making me hungry.
Unfortunately, I am lactose intolerant
Me too, but it’s like a natural laxative. :O
Got to be about not getting beat on double moves or getting beat deep in general.
He’s talking about not “biting” on the play action. You know, the Nate Allen special.
Definitely, “most importantly.”
I hope they keep rotating Mathews and Murry like that in the regular season.
They showed a lot of 2 RB alignments tonight with Sproles acting as a WR. I didn’t think they’d show that package in preseason. If they’re going to keep 4 RBs with Sproles also functioning as a WR do they consider only keeping 5 true WRs on the 53-man roster? Ajirotutu is a STs demon but do we have enough other quality players there to sacrifice him? He didn’t impress as a receiver tonight.
Has Tutu even done anything on STs?
We can only have 5-6 special teams ‘aces’ and with some of the rookies and year 2 guys putting in really good performances i think he is absolutely on the roster bubble. He has not been dominant like our LB specialists are and has been bad as a WR. He needs good performances next 2 weeks to make the team.
Ajirotutu was bad today. Forget, “not impressive,” he had multiple bad drops.
I could see them going three deep at TE instead of 4 this year to make room for Barner. That wouldn’t affect the number of WR they keep.
Had to watch the pathetic B-more coverage of the game. They questioned at least 10 of the first 12 penalties against the Ravens. Then it was how the score didn’t matter, until they got their first touchdown. Finally, I ROTFL when they criticized Chip for not directing Timmy to take a knee after the Ravens called 3 timeouts and an onsides kick.
Just tune in online (with a lower quality stream) if your internet is fast enough. I don’t know if Tommy allows us to post links to online streams but Eagles broadcasts are out there. Mayock is definitely better than all of those homers.
I’ll need something for the Packers game, unless it is actually on NFL Network. Not sure why they pulled tonight’s game off the NFLN right before the game. I was really hoping for Mayock vs. those clowns.
http://www.stream2utv.eu/sports/nfl.html or
http://ifirstrowus.eu/sport/american-football.html
There is a Reddit which tells active streams and that’s how I found mine. It was a good one, too. Just google.
NFL seems to have gotten what they wanted with extra-points no longer being automatic. Seen a lot of misses early and as another poster pointed out, any penalty suddenly makes it very interesting.
I was thinking about that, if a team gets that 15 yard excessive celebration penalty, the XP now turns into a 48 yarder or they decide to go for 2 from the 17. The first one called this year is going to potentially make that fanbase very pissed off
LOL. Hope it’s called on the Cowgirls 🙂
The problem is the math still favors kicking the PAT over going for two. So we’re going to see the same proportion of boring plays after TDs, just more of them will be missed than before.
It’s a dumb rule change in my opinion. If they wanted to make the PAT/conversion decision more interesting, I would’ve done one of the following:
1.)move the two point conversion LOS to the 1. Should significantly up the chance of success, but not make it automatic. Would introduce more of a high risk/high reward tradeoff to the decision.
2.)Make the kicking team snap the ball for the PAT from the point where the ball crossed the goal line for the TD, rugby-style – e.g., if the guy scores a TD by going over the pylon, the ball is snapped from the two yard line, but near the sideline. Would introduce a variety of interesting new formations to PAT plays, force kickers to make tough, angled kicks, and also change the calculus about where to try to target in goal line formations – all of a sudden a TD scored up the middle is slightly more desirable than one scored along the sidelines, which makes the defense’s decision about how to defend a bit more interesting.
3.)Easiest one – narrow the goal posts.
This kicking from the 33 yards out thing does not accomplish what they were trying to accomplish, which was to either make PATs more interesting or incentivize coaches to go for two more often.
Makes silly penalties for celebration or some other personal conduct really expensive in game situatons. Mid 40 kicks are not automatic and you could easily see games lost because of them.
I agree. This is a terrible rule change. Teams will still kick the extra point and now there is no chance for a fake. The main thing that this will accomplish is that there will be some game where a team loses on a missed extra point and it will feel super flukey. Also, there will be a missed extra point that will affect the spread or over/under but not the game result and people will be suspicious.
And the one thing I didn’t think of until last night is that is will over emphasize penalties. Which is another reason teams will not go for two more – because a penalty is much more likely on a two point play than a field goal.
Peters & Bradford pretty unhappy with Suggs hit. Both thought it was dirty.
Suggs is an idiot. He’s talking about how the Eagles have to “know the rules”. The penalty was called on you, dumbass.
Hey Roger. Fine him.
I’d heard last year about teams talking about how to defend the R/O and I think the Ravens were one of the teams who talked about taking free shots at the QB in this exact situation. Letter of the law, he should be able to hit the QB, but it’s going to get flagged every time. Defensive players have to adjust.
It was a blatant, dirty hit. There is no reason he had to hit Bradford in the legs. Suggs would have gotten way bigger of a “pop” on him if he hit Bradford in the chest. He was deliberately aiming for his spaghetti legs.
punk
Think some of the Raven Vets where pretty steamed by this week. They did not like coming to Philly, they did not like the fact we looked the better team in most of the team drills all week and they didnt like the fact we humbled them in the game.
Not surprised that Suggs/Smith and others were full in full LeSalt mode.
i thought Bradford brushed it of pretty well in the post-game presser.
Yeah, I like how he doesn’t let a lot get to him. Something like this could have really gotten to some other guys.
Food for thought
Chris Polk
7/36 rushing yards
5/34 receiving yards
Raheem Mostert
10/54 rushing yards
3/44 receiving yards
Kenjon Barner
4/15 rushing yards
1/10 receiving yards
1 punt return TD
We sure don’t miss Polk.
These are the rules for hitting the QB on read-option plays per Dean Blandino:
“When the quarterback puts the ball in the running back’s belly, the
referee doesn’t know who has the football, the defender doesn’t know who
has the football, so if it’s a bang-bang split second, then yes, he can
hit the quarterback,” Blandino said.
“But if the quarterback has clearly handed off the football, and
he’s standing still, or fading backwards, he cannot be unnecessarily
contacted, and that doesn’t matter if it’s a read-option quarterback or a
classic drop-back quarterback. If they’re standing still or fading
backward after the ball has left their hand, they cannot be
unnecessarily contacted.”
I’d say whether you view the play as Bradford having clearly handed off or being bang-bang split second probably depends on which team you root for. I think the fact that Suggs is a dirty bastard who unnecessarily went after Bradford’s knees can’t be disputed.
Clear it wasn’t a bang-bang play from this:
https://twitter.com/JimmyKempski/status/635295697319915520
Just watched it again live speed. It’s a lot closer than it looks in the picture, but it’s still a flag regardless.
Plus, even if one did call it a bang bang play, it’s still a penalty:
“No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.”
Note that the rule doesn’t say “passer”, it says “quarterback”. So it doesn’t matter if Bradford could have been a runner or not. He’s still a quarterback and protected against shots to the knees.
This. If Suggs would have hit him in a legal area (no head, nothing below the knees) it would or should not have been called. As it was, the R/O angle doesn’t even factor in, it was a dirty hit.
I’d be willing to bet that even if Suggs had hit him directly in the numbers with his shoulder, he’d still have been flagged. Tough play to officiate.
Just saw over on bleedinggreennation.com that Riley needed x-rays, but that they were negative. Darn it.
He roomed with Tebow in college. He’s been Touched. He will never be injured. We’re stuck with him.
Our 3rd team is better than their 3rd team!
Turns out the Suggs hit wasn’t even the dirtiest play by the Ravens:
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CND9yVnWUAAVM7o.mp4
Holy cow, those guys are freakin’ punks. What kind of team is Harbough running?
You can actually make an argument that the Suggs hit was just a ‘football play.’ Pretty sure we all agree it was dirty, but still within the normal game. The punch goes above and beyond.
Yeah. Gotta agree. That extracurricular stuff is bunk.
yeah i saw this during the game and wasn;t sure if i was seeing what i was seeing, the league will obviously see it, that dude’s gone
What kind of team? A Ravens kind of team.
And the fans love them in Baltimore for it and I imagine we would too.
Eagles under Ryan were a pretty dirty team. They would hit guys hard out of balance, hit them late (especially Waters), and were known to be nasty in the pileups.
Much mellower game than even the mid-90s.
Agree with you. Trying to ruin a guy’s career- in pre-season no less -is the kind of garbage that made me dislike Ryan.
https://twitter.com/jeff_mclane/status/635300398878867456
crazy
Is Jesse “the body” Ventura announcing this charger-cardinals game?
LMAO, I thought the same thing!
I understand it’s just the preseason but the Eagles have looked like juggernauts against two of the leagues better teams….. It’s been fairly impressive.
Trying to control my enthusiasm. #itsonlypreseason
They ran up the score in the preseason last year as well, did they not?
Not going to get too excited. Atlanta on Sept. 14th is the only game that matters right now.
34-28 L to the Bears and a 45-32 L to the Pats. Like I said, I understand its preseason but it has been impressive none the less.
Exactly. Especially considering how many new pieces we are trying to integrate on both sides of the ball. Seeing those players fare well is encouraging.
Thing is we are mauling teams first and 2nd sting units, which is what matters in preseason. The fact that the Ravens scored 17 points in Q4 does not matter since only 1 or 2 guys will make the roster from that group and will struggle to dress on game day.
Cannot wait till next week, we will be playing an almost curtain NFC playoff team (one that is probably top 5 in the league), and starters should go for at least a half. If we can hang with GB in green bay then we know we should be set for a pretty solid year since baring injury we should get better as the season progresses while we bed in our new guys.
Teams do not gameplan in the preseason. They do not spend much time trying to scheme favorable matchups, they don’t make too many adjustments to what the other team is doing, and they keep playcalling on both sides of the ball very vanilla. The coaches’ goals are to get good tape on players for evaluation purposes and to give new guys a chance to execute basic concepts of the offense and defense under game conditions. Therefore you can’t take anything, good or bad, from preseason results, other than evaluating how individual players looked (which for the Eagles has mostly been good, but still). The final score, the halftime score, the score with the first team on the field – they’re all meaningless, or close to it. The Lions went 4-0 in the preseason the year they finished 0-16.
Can’t you take away that our guys execute basic concepts much better than the other guys under game pressure? That seems pretty important.
Correct. The exciting thing is so far, the other teams are not.
Home vs away also makes a huge difference.
Early, early, early…
The year the Lions went 0-16 in the regular season, they were 4-0 in the preseason.
The year the Patriots went 16-0 in the regular season, they were 0-4 in the preseason.
Yes I know. I’m sorry for being optimistic.
Chip: “We ran a lactose intolerant secondary” – i.e. we didn’t bite on the play action (cheese) or the short routes (cheese cake). Much improved from last year.
Curry did.
Yeah, but if Curry ever lines up in the secondary we’ve got bigger problems.
But imagine Curry on a safety blitz!
tebow is not worth a gameday spot. same as Barkley. but with Barkley at least you have a backup qb you could possibly win a game with. I just don’t see that with tebow. he doesn’t make the team.
I almost crapped my pants when I saw Carroll run down the field, TURN HIS FREAKIN’ HEAD and knock the ball away. Not to mention having a secondary player who can actually catch the ball!
Remember a couple weeks ago when I asked if our players still weren’t turning their heads, and everyone jumped down my throat suggesting it was impossible to look for the ball and cover at the same time?
Yeah, good times.
It was in regards to if the CB got beat at the LOS. Carroll’s play was textbook. He stayed with the receiver off the line and the WR seemingly looked for the ball extremely early allowing Carroll to turn his head while keeping his off hand on the WR body. He would never even have been called for P.I. because 1. He wasn’t affecting the receiver and 2. Even if he was, his head was turned to the ball. The coverage on that play was a work of art and something I haven’t seen from this defense in a LONG time.
No, my earlier comment was in regards to a note about Maxwell was watching the WR’s hands in order to make a play. The article said nothing about him being “beat at the line of scrimmage.”
Hand-watching was how Fletcher played last year, even when he wasn’t beaten at the line of scrimmage. It was a relief to see our CB’s last night actually defy physics by running full speed and looking backwards, something some people here insisted couldn’t be done…
just watched a replay of Sanchez’s completion to Agholor at the 5, same play they ran with Matthews last week, difference this time????
Sanchez set his feet before throwing
Also none of Kip Smith’s FG makes looked better than any of Parkey’s misses
That is because zenith is a punter and not a kicker. There was something strange going on there more than than the “you never know when you will want to have tape on a backup kicker” excuse Spuds gave us.
Yep, I was watching the Baltimore feed and they didn’t explain it. I thought Parkey must have strained his hamstring or calf or had some other minor injury.
The players all seemed to be smiling and enjoying it afterwards (even Parkey). I think he probably asked for a shot, and Kelly figured, “hey, it’s preseason!”
If Matt Barkley in his third year in Chip Kelly’s offense can’t convincingly outshine Tim Tebow who was signed a few months ago after being out of football for two years, he needs to go. At least there’s potential for Tebow to improve.
Tebow looked too terrified to throw the ball to open receivers. Maybe God had stopped returning his phone calls.
How did our favorite Chanticleer look?
Didnt get to see much of him, but i stopped watching in the mid 4th, ill have to rewatch my recording
just pray for Sam
I’m glad Bradford was okay but it’s a littl e unsettling that people are making a big deal of the fact that he got hit a few times and his leg didn’t fall off. If he’s made of porcelain to that extent he’ll never make it through a full year.
hahahaha…definitely a worry he holds up but the rest of your post hahaha.
hahaha
Comes from an offseason of fretting and fussing. Doesn’t help that the first hit was pretty clearly a cheap shot.
Results do not matter, but how you perform with your first and 2nd string units does. We have barely played our starting QB/RB so far and been mauling other teams first and 2nd string defences pretty handily – That means something.
The fact that our defence has looked solid while missing our star ILB’s means something. The fact that our Secondary has been fundamentally sounds is meaningful especially considering last year.
The final result is not meaningful – look at the Skins, just looking at the scores they do not look like the raging dumpster fire they will be this year. But how elements of your teams perform matters – and there has been pretty much all positive for the 1st and 2nd team so far.
good night overall for an Eagle fan; pretty clear that Moffitt needs more time to get in playing shape, that neither Barkley or Tebow can play winning football and that they look deep at RB with Mostert and Barner; one or both will be tough cuts
Great performance overall but I’m still a little worried about the backup offensive linemen.
From what I’ve seen, Moffit and Vandervelde have struggled. Tobin is a guy that at times looks good. He’s able to stop his man initially but on any time where the QB has to hold the ball even a little the pass-rusher is able to disengage from him. Dennis Kelly is just a guy that I’ve always found non-descript. Without actually dissecting game tape, he usually doesn’t stand out to me one way or the other. Hate to say it based on last year, but Molk might be playing the best of our reserve linemen. The thing with Molk is he has the athleticism for this scheme. He has to add strength. It’s a lot easier for an athletic lineman to get stronger than a slower linemen to gain speed.
After watching it again, I actually think Suggs shouldn’t have been flagged. That’s a quick play. But if you’re going low on a QB, you’re asking for it in today’s game.
I hope OL target Suggs.
quick play? He took several steps and never looked at the RB and went low, that is definition of dirty hit
It’s the hit to the knees which is illegal. Fast play, intentional, unintentional -that gets flagged.
Both the hit to the knees and hitting him at all is illegal. Should have thrown 2 flags for 30 yards.
Agree.
You can make an argument on the timing of the hit (not a good one, but still), you can’t make an argument on the location of the hit.
The Pats suggested moving the extra point snap to the 15 and 2 point at the two yard line. The Eagles suggested the ball also be snapped from the 15 for extra point and they wanted the two point snapped at the one yard line. Yeah Chip would live that.
Apparently the Eagles were the team that suggested the defense could score two points on a turnover. You know what that means dont you? We may see a situation where a team takes a knee instead of kicking or going for two. Just something to think about about how much the game is changing.
Team goes up by one or two when time runs out there’s no reason to risk the point after. It will be a rare occurrence. It leaves the question do you go for two up by one with 10 seconds or less remaining in the game? You can’t kill the clock on a kneel down.
I think it’s safe to say that we could lose the Super Bowl on a team running back a two point conversion, a rule we helped change. Amirite?
I can’t imagine a team taking a knee instead of kicking an extra point, unless their kicks were repeatedly blocked. A missed PAT won’t be returnable unless the kicker has an insanely weak leg…