Offensive Issues
Posted: December 12th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 136 Comments »Les Bowen asked a tough, but fair question to Chip Kelly the other day. Bowen asked why the offense seems to have become less effective since Kelly’s first season, 2013.
Kelly was talking about how things change from week to week, in terms of how the Eagles run their offense and how opposing teams defend them. Kelly said there was no one type of defense best suited to stopping the Eagles and that teams used a variety of methods. Kelly was pointing out that no one had figured out his offense and knew how to stop the Eagles.
Les’s question makes sense. If the offense was at its best in 2013, that sure makes it look like teams have adjusted and started to figure out Kelly’s attack.
I do think familiarity has affected the Eagles offense. The more you see something, the more you get to know it and how to deal with it. The Eagles had the element of surprise to help them in that first season. Defenses had not seen some of the things the Eagles were doing.
That said, I think that is actually a far overblown point.
There are two other keys that really stick out to me. The first is OL play. The Eagles had the same 5 linemen start all 16 games in 2013. Jason Peters was terrific. Evan Mathis had a Pro Bowl year. Jason Kelce was terrific. Todd Herremans was up and down initially, but once he adjusted to RG, Herremans played well. Lane Johnson started slowly as a rookie, but got much better as the year progressed. That kind of talent and continuity up front is invaluable.
Strong OL play is critical in Kelly’s offense. He likes to spread the field to stretch out the defense. That means fewer people in the box. If you want to do that, you need blockers who can win one-on-one battles. Kelly’s passing game is largely built on play-action passes. That means a successful running game is a must. In order to run the ball, you need OL who can block well. Kelly isn’t interested in putting together a “good enough” offense. He is looking for explosive plays and points. He wants a dynamic offense. A good OL is imperative for him.
The other huge reason for the standout offensive play in 2013 was lack of turnovers. Nick Foles did a great job of protecting the ball. He took sacks rather than taking chances. We also have to be honest and admit there was just some pure old fashioned luck. There were quite a few drops by defensive players.
The last two seasons have been very different than 2013.
2014 OL starters: original 5 + Barbre, Molk, Kelly, Tobin, Gardner
2015 OL starters: original 5 + Tobin, Kelly
The OL was really a mess in 2014 due to injuries. This year change hurt the situation, with Barbre taking over for Mathis and Gardner for Herremans. The starting 5 was different, which obviously changed up the backups.
As for turnovers, they have been a huge issue for two years now. The Eagles led the NFL in turnovers in 2014. This season they are 26th. To put things in perspective, Nick Foles only threw 2 INTs back in 2013. Sam Bradford threw 3 Red Zone INTs in the first 5 weeks of this season.
You could point out that the INTs are due to good defense (and familiarity with the offense), but I don’t think that is the case. Those were plays where Bradford forced the ball or just made terrible throws.
Bill Walsh designed the West Coast Offense back in Cincinnati in the early 1970s. He kept working on it and made it the foundation of his great Niners teams. That offense led SF to its first Super Bowl title in 1981. Bill Walsh ran the same offense in 1984 and won again. He ran the same offense in 1988 and won yet again.
Walsh made adjustments over the years, but the basic plays and principles of the offense remained the same. That offense succeed because Walsh found talent for his system and was able to coach his players to perform at an elite level. He got them to execute.
Give Kelly a stable OL and better QB play and his offense can look pretty darn brilliant again. Jimmy and Joes are more important than X’s and O’s. Especially the QB.
Scheme and playcalling are part of the equation. No one disputes that.
But the notion that teams have simply solved Kelly’s offense just doesn’t fly. There was a point in the late 1990s when it seemed like more than half of the NFL was running some version of the WCO. In 1998 Denver used a version of the WCO to help them win the Super Bowl. They beat Green Bay, who also ran the WCO. The Eagles went 3-13 and were nightmarishly bad on offense, also running the WCO.
If so many teams were running the offense, how did anyone have offensive success? Just because you know something is coming doesn’t mean you can stop it.
Sometimes it is a matter of great talent. Jerry Rice is the greatest WR of all time. He was open most of the time. And even when he wasn’t open, he could still make catches and utterly frustrate you. Rob Gronkowski is a dominant TE. You can know the ball is coming to him and he can still make the play. His combination of size, strength, skill and athleticism is remarkable. No one matches up well with him.
Other times there is just great execution. If a WR runs a precise route, there is usually going to be a moment where he is open, before the CB can react to the WR’s move. If the QB anticipates well and gets the ball out at the right time, you have a good play. Ty Detmer and Irving Fryar got the best of Deion Sanders in the game at Dallas in 1996. Clearly neither of those guys is a great talent. They executed the plays well and Fryar had 9 catches for 120 yards and a TD. Oh, and the Eagles were running the WCO. And Deion had faced Jerry Rice running many of those plays for years in the SFO-ATL series (they used to be in the same division and played twice a year).
The 2013 Eagles did have the advantage of running a new offense, but the real keys to that season were outstanding OL play and protecting the ball. The Eagles have been very inconsistent in those areas in the last 2 years and the results reflect that.
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The O-line is the single most important thing that must be upgraded going into 2016.
I trust Lane will be solid as a starter.
I’m not sure where / how healthy / how effective Peters will be in 2016.
Our guard situation is far from ideal. I’d rip all of the individual guys who played there this year, but they’re all really bottom dollar backups who aren’t suited to starting; not their fault.
Kelce has been an absolute embarrassment. He can’t snap, he can’t slide in pass protection, and he can’t deal with anybody heavier than 275 lbs in a 1 on 1 blocking situation………….but he sure does a nice job at the 2nd level on run blocks.
The o-line is the only spot on this team that MUST have significant resources devoted to upgrading it.
I am 100% ok going in to next year with Bradford at QB again, the same WRs, and just about the same RB mix (minus Barner who I’d like to see upgraded via a later round draft pick, promising middle school kid, and/or Steve Van Buren’s dead body), and who we have at TE.
I think most of our $ resources need to be put into O-line and keeping who we need to re-sign.
Barner hasn’t looked half bad. He gets downhill and goes, seems to pick up positive yardage all the time.
Not
a
fan
Why not
– shouldn’t have been on the roster over Josey in 2014.
– shouldn’t have been on the roster over Mostert in 2015
– quack
It’s not based on any logic. He just gets hard-ons for camp bodies who either aren’t on an NFL roster or can’t see the field…
The logic is that in seeing Barner play RB in two straight pre-seasons he under performed vs. multiple other RBs in those same pre-season games.
So you can feel free to disagree, but there is absolutely a reason behind why I don’t like Barner; I don’t think his game play warranted a roster spot.
That’s fair.
So do you think that every coach/GM in the NFL made a mistake letting Josey slip through their fingers on his way to the Canadian League?
And that’s a very fair counterpoint.
And yes, I do. But that would leave me mathematically outgunned.
Yikes, just looked up his CFL stats. He’s only run 16 times, but he’s averaging 1.9 ypc. That’s worse than Murray!
Maybe he’s being weighed down by my expectations?
Eagles are in a tough spot with Bradford. If he plays really well down the stretch, his price will go up as other teams will show interest. If he doesn’t play well or is average, do the Eagles want to sign him? How much are they willing to pay? I do believe they will resign him if they don’t get into a bidding war. You are right about the Online being the most important area to upgrade. I think the poor play at guard is a big part of the reason for Kelce’ s regression. Upgrade at guard and find a right tackle to replace Lane when he switches to the left side. I don’ think all this can be done in one year. Eagles need to make Online priority next two to three drafts.
That’s really good food for thought with the G-C-G issues. It really does need to improve in a hurry.
I’m mentally readying myself for a franchise tagging of Bradford.
If he does play well down the stretch, franchise him and see how he does over one more season.
We’ll have tons of cap room. Tagging Bradford with franchise, or transition if you’re a poker player, is a huge way to leverage him.
Its funny because I’d like to cut sproles and promote barner. We have too much money wrapped up in the RB position. Barner proved in the preseason that he can return punts.
I also think we get sproles so involved is because he’s sproles. He’s a good leader, try hard, liable guy. We move on from him maybe we use that 3RB a little less unless injuries come up.
I also think Barner looks quicker and faster than sproels at this point. Not worth the $4 mil difference in salary.
I hear where you’re going with that, but I really see Barner as an extremely limited player.
Sproles is a guy who I see as a vastly better talent and a prove game changer as a return man. He’s also an important veteran voice on this team who can help in a locker room and help tamp down the “Chip doesn’t like black people with vocal cords” nonsense.
How exactly is he “extremely” limited? His 40 yard dash and 3 cone are almost identical to Sproles. He is bigger than Sproles. He catches the ball well. And frankly, he passes the eye test. Not saying he’s as good as Sproles, but I think your hatred of Barner is getting carried away with the “extremely limited” part.
I’ve seen enough of Barner in live snaps vs. other guys in live snaps that I don’t care for his production vs. what other players could provide.
If he totes the ball 30 more times by end of season and averages 6+ ypc would you consider changing your opinion?
Good question, but no.
I’d have to see him in extended action vs. other guys in that position group over multiple games of extended snaps.
But if Murray and Mathews get body bagged and Barner winds up with 60 to 80 carries as the starter of over 4 per carry; I’ll be acknowledging he’s good……………but I’d still insist Mostert or Josey would do better under the same circumstances.
And the funny thing with my whole Mostert over Barner convo is that if Tucker doesn’t get hurt doing nonsense away from the team this off-season; we’d be watching Tucker as the RB on the team.
I’m with on Mostert. I really liked him.
I look at this whole thing as maximizing resources. I’d rather cut sproles and roll with barner in exchange for a big upgrade at OG for example
Except that if Barner was getting that much action outside of injury situations like you mention he would be WAY better than anyone believes he is.
His upside is as a good PRer and role player/3rd RB on offense so if he could get 60 carries for 300 yard in a season that would make him a valuable asset.
But no, he’ll never be someone who can emerge as a lead back if our big 2 go down.
Sproles is one of the best players on the team.
That’s a problem when your 3RB is one of your best players. We need the resources to improve at other spots is what I am saying.
I hear you, but I’m not in favor of dumping the people who make plays. We already did that and it didn’t work!
Aren’t you one of the draftniks here? I thought I heard that this might be a decent year for OL, and Fran Duffy mentioned that more of them fit our scheme.
I’d hope to get at least one if not two OL in the first 3 rounds.
it is a great year for OL in the draft, at least pretty solid depending on your definition of great. On top of that, i don’t think there will be much talent on the FA front….only guy i could guess would be there and be of slight interest is Alex Boone who is playing LG for the niners this season and is a former tackle. One problem….he is kind of a dick, and is one of those guys who could get his money and just shut it down. He could turn out to play well, but he isn’t worth the risk IMO. This is a good year to attack the OL hole on this team and get younger.
I’m far from an expert on what the draft looks like right now. There are a lot of folks who watch way more college ball to scout it than I do. I’ll be more well versed in who is who and what is what once the draft writing picks up in January / February.
“Jimmy and Joes are more important than X’s and O’s.”
Wow, great analysis. Never heard that before. Very true.
Old coaching expression. I first heard it from Bob Davie. Sure it goes way back before him.
Words to live by…signed Nick Saban;-)
I think Kelly benefited from the novelty of his scheme in 2013. How else to explain some of the big numbers that occurred in his first year, with Reid’s players, that were never repeated? Defenses weren’t used to some of these concepts, but they quickly adapted.
At the same time, OL talent leaked away and was not replaced. WR talent evaporated. RB declined (maybe Matthews/Murray are as good as Shady in some setups, but not the current one). QB? Bradford has a long way to go to make us forget Foles ’13, despite a smoother throwing action, less risk-taking, and more disciplined pocket movement.
How can we possibly disentangle all these threads and definitively say why we went from one of the best offenses out of the box in 2013 to one of the worst here in 2015?
“Give Kelly a stable OL and better QB play and his offense can look pretty darn brilliant again. Jimmy and Joes are more important than X’s and O’s. Especially the QB.”
This seems like giving Kelly a pass based on her personel. Last I checked Chip chose to start this season with these Jimmies and Joes. He could have easily drafted an OL this year, signed someone, or not cut Mathis. All of those things would have improved the OL play.
Chip wants to be “the man” so it is difficult to sperate Chip the GM and Chip the coach. If you wanted to separate tgen the simple answer to Les’s question is Chip did a poor job putting an OL together rather than talk about how the poor OL has effected his offense.
This isn’t about blaming/not blaming Chip. Simply about the idea that the NFL has solved his offense.
I agree with the point about OL impacting offensive performance. I dont think teams have figured out the offense.
We all that “it starts in the trenches.” I just feel that the architect of this offense should understand this and how to maximize the output of his offense. I mainly a Chip guy, but this mistake is unexcusable to in my eyes.
I feel like we had a reverse Dallas Cowboys situation this year. The Cowboys last year were a flawed team, but masked many of those flaws due to a dominant running game and ball control offense. We’ve gotten th opposite. Lots of 3 and outs, stuggle in the run game, and even more pressure on our defense.
Its a wasted season because he didnt invest in the OL. And the resukt is everything you wrote in your post. I just feel the struggles of this offense are tied more to Kelly the Gm than Kelly the coach.
I’m glad we got a thoughtful answer, rather than the simple one.
Not football related, but……………….
I just had my first Pliny the Elder. I’m not usually an IPA guy, but this was quite tasty.
Cheers. The younger is also worthwhile.
I’ll pay attention to that next time they have it.
Is it like a volcano in your mouth?
/vesuviusjoke
Wow. Who would have thought. After all this time, Media Mike = Peter King.
Thanks. Lately been getting into IPAs myself and enjoyed a Big Eye IPA quite a bit.
Nice. Stone’s Last Chance IPA is really good. Also, Schafly has their Tasmanian IPA, which I think should still be out for another month or so (it’s a seasonal). The Truth (Flying Dog) is really good and my local favorite is Loose Cannon from Heavy Seas.
It’s still warm enough to enjoy these. Usually in the winter I start getting a little darker w/stouts, porters, and barleywines.
It wasn’t long ago that Richie Incognito was a pariah in the NFL, out of the league after he was banished from the Dolphins for bullying teammate Jonathan Martin. Now Incognito is playing well in Buffalo, and thanking the Bills for giving him the chance to return.
“I’m playing good football right now. I’m playing sound. I’m playing physical. This is by far the best football of my career,” Incognito said. “[The franchise] has done a great job of backing me up, from the top down. From Kim and Terry Pegula, to Doug and his staff, and the coaches, and my teammates, they’ve done a great job of embracing me and supporting me and giving me an opportunity to come here and prove that I can be a good teammate and contribute.”
I’m glad this turned out the right way for him. Having a “Good organization” can mean a lot of different things.
Reasons why the Eagles offense has gotten worse.
Worse Oline play
Worse QB play
Decrease in talent (DeSean/Maclin > Austin, 2013 Peters and Kelce > 2015 versions, Mathis > Barbre, McCoy > Murray)
Simplified playbook with unimaginative play calling and play design. Defenses have not figured out Chip’s offense, he’s stopped running his 2013 offense and now runs a shotgun scheme that uses two or three different straight forward easy to diagnose run plays, and three or four fairly standard pro passing concepts over and over again. The 2013 offense hasn’t been figured out because he’s not running the 2013 offense any more. However the 2015 offense has been figured out to some extent (see every opponent that’s beaten us claiming they knew exactly what was coming).
What I wonder about is how shaky OL play impacts Kelly’s playcalling. In general, it seems like Kelly’s playcalling has been more conservative than it was in 2013.
Also, does anyone have thoughts on why Agholor hasn’t flashed more? When I focus on him, he seems really fast off the line, but he gets so few targets, so I gather he isn’t getting open? Just have heard so little analysis of his play since he returned from injury. I wonder if he’s really struggling to get open or is being asked to run the same predictable routes all the time? I’d love to see him get some designed plays, bring him in motion, etc.
i agree, i don’t get it either. For him alone it looks like he’s just trying to play too fast, i’ve seen him drop a couple passes where he’s just trying to turn before making the catch. He’s not an easy guy to cover at all, but maybe if your running the same routes over and over again it makes it easy for the DB’s to contain you…..just maybe? There is flat out no excuse for Agholor to have as limited of production as he does. Even Revis complimented him and told him he has a bright future in the league…that’s not small peanuts coming from a guy like him
Rookie WR.
Not a great excuse. Rookie WRs have had more impact than other positions in the recent years.
Yes, but probably those are especially talented guys.
I can hardly think of any Bradford INTs which were bad decisions. Early on, at least two of those red zone INTs were passes which hit a receiver in the hands and was popped into the air. He had a two-game spate of INTs later in the year, which was (as mentioned) due to very poor accuracy rather than forcing a bad pass, I’m pretty sure. Most were not due to good defense though, agreed. As Bradford’s accuracy has improved, the INTs have dropped off a lot. The WR drops seem to be getting better too.
Around half of them probably weren’t his fault. Not sure how I can blame a QB for an INT that bounced off his WRs hands? There were at least 4 or 5 that hit our WRs in their hands, then SAM had an INT or two caused by the WR running a different route than what SAM was expecting which isn’t surprising for a new QB who only practiced in this offense starting August 1st… Which means that there are around 5-7 INTs that should get corrected just by getting more comfortable in this offense and better chemistry with his WR..
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However, SAM also had some really bad ones like the two early in the Saints game which he bounced back from and led us to a win. These ones were alarming to see but an INT problem is uncharecteristic of SAM and im hoping he uses the rest of this season to prove that.. all season the coaches maintained that he has been improving each week, and that has become evident since the Carolina game which is very promising because it was always a realistic expectation that he would improve as the season unfolded and he got more and more comfortable and sp far that is exactly what we have seen, and Sqm now has a Great opportunity to step it up and make it crystal clear to everyone.
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We are tied for 1st place, with 4 games left and we get to play the two teams we are tied with. we currently have a healthy roster, and the opportunity to control your own destiny against some quality competition with the season on the line. Can’t aak for a better position than that for SAM to be able to make hos case for Franchise QB and im most excited about the fact that he has Ryan Mathews back, and most important, his starting OL just plyed a complete game beating a quality Pateiots front 7, then had a full week of practice going into this bills game, if our These 5 lineman play every snap the rest of this season, I’ll be extremely excited to see what Bradfkrd can lead us to
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ESPECIALLY Since our recent results make it seem like the entire team really believes in Bradford to the point where they were completely deflated and demoralized when SAM got hurt and they couLDint get up to play with Sanchez.. I don’t know how else to Interpret a defense played Solid all year, bradford picking up steam in recent game, culminating with heating the saints and the big overtime win against Dallas. then the miami game starts and we FINALLY Get off to a fast start and go up 19-3 at the end up the 1st quarter, Bradford gets hurt and if seems like at that very moment the entire team quit, donkey kong Suh took over the game, we laid down and let miami win, the next game we play Tampa, and all of the sudden our consistently solid defense disappeared and we had the two worst back to back losses against teams that weren’t even great, and then Bradford comes back, gives a pregame speech to the entire team, we go down 14 points and instead of quiting like they did with Sanche! The Defense decided to play again, the ST stepped up, an injured OL played an entire game and this team inexplicably got up to beat the Patriots.. It just looks like this team believes in Bradford and have completely lost all confidemce in sanchez to the point where even our defense won’t play for him…..I have no idea if this is true or not, but that’s exactly what it looks like…there is no Other way to interpret it lol.
i would say Week 2 at home vs. Dallas where he tried to squeeze a ball into Ertz or Celek in the back of the end zone, but Sean Lee was able to turn around and snag it was a bad throw, but mostly because Cooper was wide open across the middle. Also he made an awful throw against the Saints at home, Ball was intended for Cooper but Sam short-armed it and Browner had an easy pick
Yeah, I’ll give you the Dallas one. That was bad. The Saints INT was the right decision (Cooper was there in the end zone). The pass needed to be deep but was an awful throw, and way too short. There were a few INTs of that type in those two games.
If you aren’t accurate enough to make the pass, it’s a bad decision to throw it.
Sounds facile, but don’t you think there’s a reason he tends to favor the very easiest throws, even though he has a gun?
He wasn’t accurate enough for short passes for some games earlier in the year. Often catchable but rarely in stride. That has gotten much better. He’s not taking deep downfield shots (at least yet) but he hasn’t been egregiously checking it down like he did early in the year either. Admittedly, there were some check downs on 3rd and long this past game which were a bit frustrating but he’s at least getting intermediate throws more often now. If we could avoid the false starts the offense moved pretty well last game.
I think the INTs came on throws he can make, but just wasn’t at the time. Maybe it was rust, who knows. If he can stay accurate on the throws he’s making now, that’s fine by me, especially if he can keep improving slowly and looking a bit more downfield at times. He’s certainly not at franchise-level QB yet but he also hasn’t plateaued.
He does seem to be improving. I had written off his ceiling as Alex Smith, so if anything better than that will be gravy for me. Don’t know if you like DVOA, but Alex is at 13th and Sam at 24th right now.
After not playing for two years, I’m interested to see his ceiling. Palmer really blossomed in AZ, so I’m hoping that’s what we get from Bradford.
Palmer’s got a lot of things going right for him. Good OL play, no dropsies, and they hold the ball longer. I think if Bradford had more consistent play around him, he could look closer to that than Alex Smith. I’ll take the difference between the two as well.
Yup. Smith was -3.7% his first year in KC too (and they were winning that year). He has improved, per DVOA, last year and a bit more this year. This being his 10th year in the league, with his first decent seasons being his 6th and 7th. Bradford was 14th in DVOA in 2013 in the half-season he had before he got hurt, and 16th for a full season in 2012. And this is really only Bradford’s 5th season as a starter, and that is counting the half year 2013 (granted, same age as for Smith’s 7th year). If I recall Bradford was near the bottom of DVOA for a while this year (mostly on merit though the drops were killing him), so he’s moving up some. I guess you had to expect a lot of rust; it was the preseason which tricked us that he may be ready to roll right away. If he follows the Alex Smith career arc he should end up better than Smith. Impossible to say, but as long as he keeps improving, then cool.
For me this is pretty simple, OL, OL. OL And OL
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Not only was the 2013 OL more talented then the past two years, but TYPICALLY, if you have 5 starting Lineman that are all able to stay healthy over an entire season, good things are going to happen.not only did 2013 team enjoy great health across the OL, but it was also more talented then what we saw in 2014 and 15…
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If the Eagles could only improve and solidify one position this offseason, building a top caliber OL provides us the most Improvement BANG for our Buck. there are two important questions that we need answers to in order to have a chance at having an idea what our OL NEEDS and unfortunately we have no way of finding out these answers. The questions are:
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1) JP’s Future? 1 more year at LT? Is he willing to give us a year at LG? Cut him after this season?
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2) Is Josh Andrews an adequate backup Center for KELCE, or do we need to also find a suitable backüp Center this offseason?
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For the sake of this discussion im going to assume the best case scenario which for me is Peters willing to play LG for us next year, And Josh Andrews developing into an adequate backüp center…. I could see the Eagles playing Peters at LT for one more year, but I’m hoping we start him At LG because he still has the the athleticism required to execute the pulling we ask of our Guards, while also providing us with a much needed infusion of strength and power to our interior OL to protect the undersized KELCE, and create some push in the interior so we can finally let Murray run North/South playing to his strengths…
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I think andrew Gardners injury really hurt us, but if you can’t overcome one injury to your OL you probably weren’t good enough to begin with. But for Next year, if Peters moves to Guard and Gardner comes back. We are set at Guard at least for next year..
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Offseason OL plan has 3 scenarios:
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Scenario 1) Lane LT, Peters LG, KELCE C, Gardner RG, ??? RT.
Backups:
Tobin RG
Barbre LG
Josh Andrews C
??? Tackle, unless you want to bring back Dennis Kelly for one more year. This scenario leaves us deep with experience at Guard, so if we had an injury to a starting Tackle. We could always move JP to tackle and bring Barbre off the bench to start at Guard.
So in this scenario our immediate offseason NEED is starting RT, and a backup Tackle if you want to move on from Dennis Kelly. Not sure what RT Will be available in FA but this has to be addressed in FA or the Draft, it’s a top 3 Need
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scenario 2) one more year with JP at Left Tackle.. Which would mean:
Peters LT, ??? LG, KELCE C, Gardner RG, Lane RT
Backups
Tobin RG
Barbre LG
Andrews C
dennis Kelly or a rookie RT
Basically the only immediate difference is we need to add a starting caliber LG instead of RT(scenario 1).. And a backup T if you want to replace Dennis Kelly, but you may want to make sure his replacement has some starting potential since JP at LT is probably just a one year Band aid.
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Scenario #3) WORST CASE Doomsday scenario lol in which case Jason Peters is cut after this season and josh andrews hasn’t developed into an adequate backüp Center which would look something like:
Lane LT, ??? LG, KELCE C, Gardner RG, ??? RT
Barbre LG
Tobin RG
??? C
??? RT or Dennis Kelly.
In this doomsday scenario we need a Startimg RT and a starting LG, unless you want to water down our OL again starting Gadner and Barbre as the Guards, leaving only RT as a need for the starting lineup… But since I hope we Build an ELITE OL, I much prefer Both Barbre and Tobin as backups.. So we would need
Starting RT
Staring LG
backüp C
Backüp Tackle or keep Dennis Kelly
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Personally im hoping for scenario #1 squeezing a year of starting LG out of Peters… The argument for getting rid of Peters ISNT a case of him not being able to play anymore. That’s not the case at all, if you get rid of JPP its becausehe you don’t thni his body can give you 16 games and his in and out of the lineup Hurts us,HOWEVER we should take advantage of having veteran Guards on our bench with NFL experience in Barbre and Tobin, so they should be able to step in if JP has to miss a game.
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Ultimately Peters is probably just a one year band aid, not sure we can expect him to give us two more years with any confidence, but the man can still play, and it allows us to spread out our OL rebuild over the course of the next two Offseasons.. With That said, who knows, maybe a move to LG Rejuvinates JP and prolongs his career by two years….I think he can transition well to Guard where he can use his long arms and Power to move the man in front of him, instead of dropping back on an Island and trying to stop these young speed rushers like Vic Beasley from rushiñg Wide and trying to turn the corner on old man peters… I think he still has enough juice in him, to use his power and long arms to win his battles against Defensive Tackles so im hoping to get the chance to see what this stud can do at Guard, but I also wouldn’t be shocked if he played another year at LT, Tho im really hoping for LG, lining up next to Lane and smashing teams,,
You’re joking right? We could most certainly need, not only a talent injection, but young talent too.
However, our most important need will be QB, not just long term, but an actually franchise QB.
After the next 4 games, we’ll see if we already have one.
I hope so. If Sam plays at a mediocre level or inconsistently, there’s some tough decisions ahead.
We are OK with the line for next year since our future left tackle is set to be a free agent from Bufallo at the end of the year. You can watch him play tomorrow…he said wishfully
No, we wont. Stop trying to make Sam Bradford look anything like a marginally better version of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith. Bradford is a small step above a game manager and a serviceable starter. Stop trying to hope some sort of magic happens and Bradford miraculous improves loads in his 7th season as a NFL player. It doesn’t happen. Mediocre, injury prone and a FA who probably wont come cheap. Thats Sam Bradford. Try to bring him back, but if he wants anything close to a real contract, let him walk and dont pay him 15+, because he isn’t a real QB.
Thats not a QB in the NFL, at least unless you have some kind of historic defense, ST and rushing attack in a weak season. We know this lesson. Every Super Bowl winner has a top tier QB. Every consecutively good team and playoff winning team, has a top tier QB.
Bradford is not a top tier QB. He is not bad, sure he can play and start in the NFL, but it will not bring us closer to winning. You do not win without a QB. Therefore our borderline only goal in every offseason until we have that QB, is to find him.
We’ve lived in this uncertainty before. Suddenly thinking Mike Vick or Nick Foles will turn into the guy. Obviously, you’re not gonna give up on a rookie, but Sam Bradford has played in the league. The light wont suddenly come on, the wont suddenly become a rival to Brady and Rodgers. Bring him back if he comes cheap, then you’re set short term with a starter, if you cannot get to a point where a QB is available in the draft. Even if you find the guy, Bradford is there to compete and teach. It still will not make Sam Bradford anything close to a QB who dominates enough to be considered a franchise QB.
LOL ok..
What he says makes sense.
Football players rarely exceed their previous ceiling after six years in the league.
Could it happen with Bradford? Sure. But there’s nothing to indicate that it will.
If you’re Chip Kelly, and you truly believe in analytics and in science, you’d be hard pressed to see Bradford as a top-tier QB.
As much as I would like to disagree with you just because you believe that a 1,2,and 3rd rounder from the last two years were worthless… you are right. Unless Sam has a dramatic turn around he isn’t our long term guy.
bradford needs way more talent around him than he has
Hmmm… Fitz and Alex have their teams in PLAY OFF contention. They are Good QB, dare I say franchise QB.
Chances are, you are right.
If you think we don’t have talent at the skill positions you are nuts.
I like that instead of a bunch of maxed out old vets like JP, it’s reasonably to expect that a lot of our skill players best ball is still ahead of them. For example, we haven’t seen half of the WR AGholar would be. And even some of our veteran skill playsrs like Murray and Ryan Mathews, Id espect them to look better next year if we upgrade the OL combined with them getting more and more comfortable running exclusively out of Shotgun which is new to them.. ryan Mathews has looked awesome, yet there were,stretches that our run blocking was horrendous. I cant imagine how Ryan Mathews will look, running like an explosive savage behind a quality OL
..
There have been times where Murray has looked bad, there were times we don’t even know how he looked because the OL was so bad that defenses lived in our backfield waiting for Murray.. But there were also plenty of times when we handed the ball to Murray or threw him a pass and you can see him running like a beast that you want to see more of. There is a lot to rip Murray for, like the sliding, running out of bounds, but in fairness to him, it’s been a year where half his touches were spent behind line that didn’t even give him a chance, the guy had to deal with an abnormal amount of getting demolished in the backfielld as soon as ne touched the ball. It’s not humanly possible for him to trust the OL after what they put him thru.
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After a disappointing season, coaches Probably won’t keep him in a glass case all pffseason like they did last years, they will probably łet him Practoce all offseason which murray needs to get more comfortabke running out the gun. more importantly they need to upgrade the OL so they can get some movement from our interior lineman so we can run murray north south and play to his talents.
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Murray has been a disaster for his first year but I believe that there are times when a free agent addituon doesn’t play to his full potential Til year 2 a since the OL failed Murray, hopefully this will be the case with him, and next year we see the potent run game that we expected to see. Hopefully the OL has a good end to this season and murray can have a strong end to this season…
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We still probably add a skill player or two, but I think it will be of the bench player variety, like a #4 WR…
I missed an “OL”. The sentence should have been: We could most certainly need OLmen, not only a talent injection, but young talent too.
A response to GEagles wanting to go pure OL. I agree with that, we need help at OL. Just not as much as a QB.
Tommy: did you intentionally neglect to discuss the difference in WR play between 2013 and 2015. In 2013 we had a dynamic vertical threat in DJax. In 2014, we had a legit #1 in JMac who could burn defenses with his speed yet also was a consistently reliable target with great hands. We have no such difference makers at WR in 2015 despite being told repeatedly how much talent they have.
DJax had only 6 touchdowns in 2014 and only 3 this year. Get over it.
Maclin is in no way worth the money KC threw at him. Jackson is a one-trick pony who takes every play off he doesn’t get the ball.
Maxwell wasnt worth the money, Graham wasnt worth the money, on and on. Sometimes you have to pay extra. If Murray wasnt signed for too much money maybe Maclin could have been back. Desean Jackson is one of the best deep threats in the game and that alone is worth a lot in itself. I can understand not resigning them but to completely discount them is foolish.
Graham has been coming on as of late. After the 1st 3 games, Maxwell has been solid. No he’s not Revis or Sherman, but they had to do something there. He’s definitely worth more than the other two we had here. Way more, but the market is going up and I think Maxwell’s deal won’t look so bad in a couple years as the cap keeps going up. He struck while the iron was hot.
Of all the people we lost, I’d have paid Mac the money. I wasn’t a fan of DJax because he takes plays off and Andy’s last year here he checked out. I hate seeing players quit. McCoy wasn’t a fit for Chip’s style, but I didn’t start hating him until he left when I realized he’s a kind of a dirtbag.
Mathis is a different story and I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing. I believe if they hadn’t cut Herremann’s, he’d still be here in lieu of Mathis.
I agree with you. You dont have to tell me. I didnt say they were werent worth it or a necessity but it can be argued they were overpaid. My argument was sometimes its worth to overpay to insure you get your product.
I agree. I think they should have given Mac that extra 1 or 2 mill.
Graham was a draft pick moron. Jackson hasn’t done crap and isn’t worth the league minimum!
We actually resigned him this year you silly fool. Lol
People love to discount the loss of these players. Perhaps it’s just a way to help people deal with the loss…to minimize its impact.
Yes, Maclin got too much money. However, we still miss him dearly. Both of those things can be and, in fact, are true. Perhaps if Kelly, et al. made him feel like a priority, returned his phone calls and made a strong push to resign him prior to him hitting FA, we could have avoided him ever even testing the FA waters.
Yes, Jackson is a one trick pony. However, that trick is pretty awesome. And, we’ve replaced him with two zero trick ponies. Yes, he hasn’t put up great numbers this year, but he was injured…that happens. It doesn’t completely discount the impact he had on our offense. In 13 games, Jackson had 1169 yards last year, a ridiculous 20.9 yards per catch and 6 TDs. And, that was with a disaster of a quarterback position. In our offense, he was able to post 86 rec for 1332 yards and 9 TDs. That production has not been replaced, nor has his impact on the way defenses could scheme against this team.
We can argue all day about what that is worth cap-wise and how much his antics off the field hurt the team. But, arguing that him, Maclin and McCoy leaving has not been a huge causative factor in the offenses’ downward spiral is just silly.
Thank you for being so articulate about this matter. Arrow up for you.
Chip on the sidelines at the Army-Navy game.
Agreed.
No one was betting on the 2007 Giants. No one was betting on the 2011 Giants. No one bets on a team that squeaks by into the playoffs to take it all the way, but in this league of parity, the only thing that matters is who is hot when. That’s it. We have the pieces in place to make a run.
So you are saying we should bet on the Giants…
Disagree. I made a lot of money picking the Giants to win. If you underestimated how the Giants defensive was playing, then you weren’t paying attention…
https://twitter.com/Eagles/status/675742013187313665
Wut
https://twitter.com/BrandonGowton/status/675631213881761792
Too much Cox for one, two, sometimes three men.
that’s crazy
I assume that was one of our favorite rush-3-men plays. Kind of a hint as to why those don’t work.
Although, if Davis knows he can drop 8 into coverage AND still get one-on-one opportunities for both DEs, I can see why it is tempting.
Because two of our guys are being held, right?
“precision beats power, and timing beats speed” -Connor McGregor
Once you get past the WWF persona I actually like the guy.
I think that guy is right..for now – Eagles RBs not named Murray
just want to see one thing. Want to see Bradford have confidence to pass downfield. Dont always, always, always, take what the defense gives you. I know he does not have quality receivers to go down the field with, but someone most be open post 20 yards at least a few times a game.
Giants, Redskins and Cowboys all beat the Bills in SB. Back to Back to Back years
Including the one in 1991 we would have won if Cunningham (or McMahon) doesn’t get injured and the one in 1992 we would have won if Jerome Brown doesn’t murder his nephew and himself.
[…] Offensive Issues – Iggles BlitzStrong OL play is critical in Kelly’s offense. He likes to spread the field to stretch out the defense. That means fewer people in the box. If you want to do that, you need blockers who can win one-on-one battles. Kelly’s passing game is largely built on play-action passes. That means a successful running game is a must. In order to run the ball, you need OL who can block well. Kelly isn’t interested in putting together a “good enough” offense. He is looking for explosive plays and points. He wants a dynamic offense. A good OL is imperative for him. The other huge reason for the standout offensive play in 2013 was lack of turnovers. Nick Foles did a great job of protecting the ball. He took sacks rather than taking chances. We also have to be honest and admit there was just some pure old fashioned luck. There were quite a few drops by defensive players. […]
Wow just made 10000 dollars working from home !!!
Sike naw, don’t you just hate when those comments show up lol
I’m liking all the good debate,through out the comments and I am in love with jimmy Kimpsey he writes some good post, I wish I can zap him to a mini jimmy and put him in my pocket I mean his writing is second to none I mean he just have an intellectual orgasm with his words choice and analysis, and don’t let me get started on his drawings, he definitely needs to patent them for infringement gosh who knew he was such an artist too, awe man who better then jimmy he like the lebron of beat writers in Philly omg don’t get me started, I’m also limit the guy Seth who be on Eagles post game live now that man is a tells it like it is, he on fire but I don’t know who can touch jimmy kempisky the guy really on top of his game,
Now back to sports trade Murray to Cleveland or Oakland that to dysfunctional franchise that will pick him up. Next sign and trade Sam for either kapernick or Rg3 next using free agency to plug upholds on the defense, and the draft for offense and ol and a draft and stash qb next year we will win the sb
Murray to Cleveland could be in play due to the meddlesome owner. Oakland has smartened up, so I can’t ID them as a dumping ground any more.
[…] Offensive Issues – Iggles BlitzStrong OL play is critical in Kelly’s offense. He likes to spread the field to stretch out the defense. That means fewer people in the box. If you want to do that, you need blockers who can win one-on-one battles. Kelly’s passing game is largely built on play-action passes. That means a successful running game is a must. In order to run the ball, you need OL who can block well. Kelly isn’t interested in putting together a “good enough” offense. He is looking for explosive plays and points. He wants a dynamic offense. A good OL is imperative for him. The other huge reason for the standout offensive play in 2013 was lack of turnovers. Nick Foles did a great job of protecting the ball. He took sacks rather than taking chances. We also have to be honest and admit there was just some pure old fashioned luck. There were quite a few drops by defensive players. […]
The nfl has figured out this offense? Wow. Really? I expect better.
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OL OL OL. I get it, the Eagles don’t have 5 pro-bowlers like all the other teams have so, it’s the OL. I get they’ve played bad and they’ve played ‘ok’ at times. But very few teams have 5 pro bowlers. Most teams are on their back ups due to injuries. (Why has Kelce – my favorite OL – played so terrible?)
…..
I guess it’s fun to come up with excuses as to why the Eagles aren’t winning. The NFL has figured out this offense is probably the worst excuse. I will never buy into “all the nfl coaches are smarter than CK that they figured him out and he can’t adjust”. Remember all those articles on how smart CK is? Suddenly the genius can’t counter attack the other teams changes? Please.
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I’m a CK fan and I do think he figures this out…but before we give the NFL credit, we need to look at what CK has brought in here. Made a strong move to get Bradford(I don’t mind this move). Bradford does not run the play action the way it’s designed to be played. He’s just not QB smart enough. CK lost that gamble in getting him. CK made a strong move to get DM. DM does not have to tools to play that position in CK’s offense. CK drafted Huff and Aggie and picked up Austin Miles. (I won’t pick on the defense as there are those still holding onto MS2 as the savior)
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How can you run your offense when the starting QB is not smart enough, the RB can’t figure it out and 3 wr’s are ineffective? How many times do we have to read the offensive is dumb downed so the players can try and effective?
….
Sooner or later, the GM has to take the blame. A GM that prides himself on obtaining “smart” players has completely whiffed on these players. Where are the player evaluations? Or the “months” of research CK said he did to get Bradford? The whole GM “thinking” process needs to be re-evaluated. If the GM doesn’t figure this out…this off season is going to be interesting.
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Let’s all jump on the Miami band wagon because their back up HC has figured out this offense. The NFL with so few teams above .500 have figured out the Eagles – yet they can’t figure out any other team? UGH.
I agree that the theory of the NFL solving Chip’s offense is bogus.
The beauty of Chip’s offense is it’s relative simplicity. It’s not a complex, ‘out-smart the defense’ playbook like Andy ran. By its nature of creating numbers advantages, it’s not really ‘solvable’. But to make that work, players need to execute. Players are consistently losing one on one battles, dropping passes, making the wrong read, etc. which kills an offense that relies on winning these one on one battles. You could consider this a failure of Chip the GM, but then you see a guy like Jason Kelce as one of the main culprits, and he had been one of the top centers in the league headed into this year.
Sometimes players just have bad years. It seems to be more widespread when you have significant turnover, a la the dream team.
Agreed. That’s what’s puzzling as well. Kelce – wtf. Fully expected JM to make a big leap forward this year….I guess everything comes into question when the team is not playing well…
For the record, no other team besides the Eagles is ever deserving of credit. The answer is we always need to handle our own business better to win.
Rant aside — can’t wait for this game today. Throw out all the stats and records. This game means so much on so many levels. This is no ordinary game. Game could get out of hand….
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It’s clear Belick(sp) does not like Chip Kelly. Watching and listening to him on the NFL network this morning is tough. He’s loving the struggles of CK.
It’s a freakin RB sideshow.
Bla Bla Bla. Just win baby.
Turnovers and penalties. Limit those and the offense gets a huge boost.
Things that could happen today:
.Special teams, defense, and marginal offensive competence carry us to a tight win.
.The offense struggles and an over-worked D can’t do it alone; lose.
.The Eagles flip the switch and go into preseason mode; racking up 38 points by halftime. The game is closer than it should be because of Billy D Prevent; still a big win.
.Regular programming continues, the Bills put up 45, Bradford is marginally effective but gets hurt, Sanchez comes in with his usual pep but throws 2 RZ interceptions, we lose by 20.
I’m going with;
Bradford and the O score enough points to help us win, but Billy Davis lets Tie Rod Taylor throw it all over the yard because they keep using Cooper and Hogan in the pass game in ways that Billy can’t figure out.
Game comes down to a Sturgis field goal attempt from 40+ with no time left…………..hope it goes in.
Ok gang; lets get real.
I need Stafford, Lacy, Ivory, Megatron, Brandon Marshall, Julius Thomas, Tim Hightower, Niners D, and Nick Novak to outplay
Brady, Sproles, McFadden, Decker, Beckham Jr, Heath Miller, Allen Robinson, Broncos D, and Matt Prater.
Sorry, this is the game Sproles gets 200+ all-purpose yards and even throws a TD to Bradford.
I’ll lose based on that and be fine with it. Eagles over fantasy all day.
If I lose because the Jets give it to Decker way too much and Marshall and Ivory too little added to Miami not triple covering Beckham (and/or not having somebody take out Eli); I’m re-wishing every bad fate for all of NY fandom.
darren sproles over ryan mathews today?
Yeah..first playoff matchup for me
i need Bortles, antonio brown, amendola, maclin, matt jones, cj spiller, austin sefarin jenkins…detroit d, khalil mack, derrick johnson, and mark barron to outplay..
Killa Cam newton, thomas rawls, jeremy hill, desean jackson tyler lockett, tyler eiffert, tedd ginn, rams d, ninkovich, preston brown and corey graham
Im nervous..
It amazes me how many pro football players act like babies that need to be coddled. Just shut up and do what your boss tells you to.
It doesn’t surprise me anymore. I figure most of these guys have been fawned over since they were teenagers. They haven’t had to succeed in academics, vocational skills, or even relationships. They are immature millionaires who are adored by the public.
Having said that, if I was in their shoes when I was that age, I’m afraid of how easily I could fall into the same rut.
Angry birds!!
I love it..”53 angry men”
So krause inactive today..more snaps for agholar and huff?
who did they activate instead?
Murray.
Running backs just ran on the field. Sproles. Barner. Mathews. No Murray..
#TeamPlayer…
Or he’s taking a dump.
I wonder who’s the bigger crybaby?! Murray or Shady?!
MURRAY: Hey guys, we’re out of toilet paper! Guys??
*cut to Chip running away from the restrooms with a handful of toilet rolls*
NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports the Eagles have “weighed all options” with DeMarco Murray including benching him.
That leaves Murray’s status very up in the air for Sunday’s game against Buffalo. Darren Sproles has already been announced as the featured back, which implies that Murray’s role will be limited even if he plays.
Coach Chip fighting back against GM Chip