Who is Running the Show?
Posted: December 31st, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 580 Comments »Jeff Lurie met with the media today and addressed the firing of Chip Kelly and the plan for the Eagles moving forward. He had a lot of interesting things to say. You can watch the PC here at PE.com.
Reuben Frank asked Kelly if he would be hiring a GM to come in and run the show. Lurie said that will not be happening. Instead, Lurie wants a collaborative approach. Howie Roseman will be in charge of football operations. Tom Donahoe will run the personnel department on a day-to-day basis. The new coach will obviously be the third prong in this collaborative effort to run the team.
I have mixed feelings on this. Let’s start with Roseman, a highly polarizing figure. He isn’t as bad as his harshest critics like to make him out to be. At the same time, Roseman’s track record is mixed. There are some things he’s great at. He does a great job with negotiating contracts. He has an excellent feel for the draft…where players will go and how to move up and down the draft board.
In terms of player acquisitions, things are more uneven. Roseman drafted Fletcher Cox, but also Marcus Smith. Roseman signed flops like Nnamdi Asomugha and Patrick Chung, but also made terrific additions with Evan Mathis, Connor Barwin and DeMeco Ryans.
I would say Roseman learned from some earlier mistakes and overall did a solid job in the 2012-2014 drafts. The one big exception is Smith, and it is possible a new coaching staff will be able to save his career. Right now Smith looks like a big time bust.
Donahoe is an old school personnel guy. He was a high school football coach that went to work for BLESTO and Jack Butler. He became one of BLESTO’s top scouts and that led to a job with the Steelers. He ran their football ops for almost a decade and had a lot of success. Donahoe then lost a power struggle to Bill Cowher.
Donahoe moved on to Buffalo and was the GM up there from 2001-2005. They had one 9-7 season, but never made the playoffs. Those 5 years were mostly disappointing. Donahoe’s time in Pittsburgh was marked by a lot of stability. Buffalo was all about change. Different coaches, QBs, schemes, etc. Donahoe didn’t help matters, but that environment also didn’t bring out the best in him.
Since then Donahoe has bounced between media gigs and part time roles. He got a job with the Eagles in the spring of 2012.
Lurie is very comfortable with Roseman. He also must trust Donahoe. Maybe most importantly, Lurie must feel that Roseman and Donahoe can work together. Obviously the new coach is an unknown variable.
If things go ideally, you’ll have Roseman being the big picture guy, Donahoe as the senior scout and the coach offering his perspective. They would bring three different backgrounds and three different perspectives to each situation. There wouldn’t be any knee-jerk decisions. The group would arrive at a consensus and base moves/strategy on that.
That kind of situation can work. The Cardinals have Steve Keim and Bruce Arians working together. Neither one of them had a glowing track record prior to their collaboration. They were successful, but not so much that anyone thought their partnership would create a juggernaut team.
If the Cardinals aren’t the best team in the NFC, Carolina is. They have Ron Rivera and Dave Gettleman sharing control of that team, another duo that no one feared when they were put together.
There is logic to Lurie’s thinking and this set-up. You won’t be making decisions based on one person’s whim. If a person can’t sell the other two on the wisdom of the move, it doesn’t get made. That should eliminate some bad picks/signings. Not all, to be sure, but some.
The flip side is that there one potential flaw. While there is nothing wrong with a collaborative approach per se, you do need the right blend of personalities to make it work. Donahoe has worked for Roseman, but never been anything close to a peer with him. There is no telling how the new coach will fit in. He’ll say all the right things to get hired, but the real test is how things work when real situations come up.
Can all three men really put their egos aside and work together?
Maybe. Time will tell.
Roob doesn’t like this set-up at all. He rips Howie and Donahoe in a pretty big way.
I get Roob’s thinking. He’d like the team to hire an up and coming personnel guru to run things and work with the coach. New blood. Fresh ideas.
At the same time, plenty of up and coming personnel gurus fail. Scott Pioli was awful in KC. Ryan Grigson has had mixed results in Indy. Gene Smith did some awful things for the Jaguars. Ray Farmer hasn’t been successful in Cleveland.
The Skins brought in Scot McGloughan to run personnel matters for them and he’s a key reason for their turnaround this year. He’s not young. Rick Spielman has been with the Vikings since 2006. They have 4 winning records in that span. Rather than firing him, the Vikings have kept him around, thinking that he can be part of the solution. Right now that looks like a good decision since they’re 10-5 and have some quality young talent.
There really is no magic formula to building a winner. The key is to have the right combination of people. We need to find out who the new coach is before we can really know if the Eagles set-up can work.
There is one angle to this that is interesting. Roseman was kicked to the curb for a year. I’m sure that’s a feeling he doesn’t want to experience again. Donahoe has been out of power for a while. He’ll do whatever he can to make this work. The new coach will also want to make this work, so that he can win games and succeed. Maybe Lurie is more shrewd than we realize.
Roseman didn’t get his old job back. He got part of his old job. As much as Lurie likes him, I think Lurie wants to stay away from one person having too much power. Roseman worked well with Andy and Chip at times so he can be part of a collaborative process.
Donahoe isn’t a big picture guy. He is a good talent evaluator. You want him watching tape, visiting schools and grading players. You don’t want him running the whole organization.
This can work if the Eagles find the right coach. Jeff Lurie wants a leader and a communicator. Those skills will help the coach in his dealings with Roseman and Donahoe as well as the team itself. The coach needs to have the vision for the team. It is up to the personnel department to help that vision come to life.
I think the ideal set-up is a situation where you have a coach and a personnel guy who can work as partners. Pete Carroll technically has final say in Seattle, but he and John Schneider work together to make moves.
I certainly don’t hate this like Roob does, but I also don’t love it. Knowing who the coach is will help me to get more comfortable with it (or not if they make some bizarre hire).
*****
I’m getting a lot of questions about Matt Patricia as a coach candidate. He currently runs the defense in New England and has done a terrific job with that group.
He isn’t on my short list for now, but will be on a longer list that I put together. The knocks on him…never been a HC and he’s only worked for the Pats. I like a lot of what he’s done, but guys who have never been away from Bill Belichick scare me. He’s never had to deal with a losing season or having crappy players.
As I do more research, maybe I’ll fall in love with him. It helps to learn about a guy’s philosophies and some specific incidents in his background. He’s definitely worth taking a long look at.
_
Someone said this morning that Belichek (based on his comments on Chip’s firing) would probably advise both of his guys to avoid the situation here.
Just something to think about.
excellent point. i love the eagles but if my friend was thinking about coaching here i’d make sure he knew the pitfalls
That’s fine. We should avoid everyone in NE. Belichick’s magic does not rub off on his assistants. And that’s probably the end of the list of friends Chip had in the NFL.
Something else to think about:
Given the way BB works, if he wants to keep a guy, he’ll tell them to avoid us, while if he wants to get rid of the guy, he’ll tell them we’re OK.
No, Bellichick will advise all his coaches to not accept the job working with Howie… Forget which coach he told not to interview for us because of Howie.. ANYONE remember?
Bill O’Brien http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2013/01/14/some-thoughts-on-the-howie-roseman-debate/
He is salty his friend was fired. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
Maybe I’m wrong since like all of us I don’t know BB personally. With that being said I don’t view BB as someone that acts on emotion when it comes to football, but as someone that acts and advises on logic and fact.
Good, No thanks
Who said this?
Love Patricia. Lost 3/4 of his secondary and Wilfork and still put a top 7 defense out there this season. He’s my second choice after Hue.
Do you also love Mangini? Because he pulled off similar feats. I’m not keen on hiring an inexperienced coach who’s a DC under a guy who happens to be one of the greatest defensive coaches of the last half century. Just too much possibility that away from Belichick he turns out not to be such a miracle worker after all.
Yep I don’t know wh the pats’ coordinators get so much love
Could be that Brady cleans up a lot of stuff in the locker room and NE can release whoever they want and still be successful.
Players up there may just play in fear all the time.
If Patricia gets hired as coach, I hope he makes youmg Mike Vrabel our DC… Eventually Vrabel will move up the coaching ranks, might as well pounce on a young bright coach
..
If we hire McDermott, I want him to keep Shurmur as the OC
Both of those scenarios make good sense to me.
According to this article (http://articles.philly.com/2010-07-19/sports/24970640_1_howie-roseman-joe-banner-nfl-dream) Howie became VP of Player Personnel in 2008. Birds record since then is 59-53. If that isn’t “mediocre” I don’t know what is.
Furthermore, Lane Johnson was quoted that the discord between Kelly and Roseman was evident in the building for the whole season – so clearly he was a big part of the problem.
Until he’s gone, I don’t think they’ll achieve Jeff or my dream of a SB unfortunately.
Jeff has to be very careful with these decisions. If Chip gets another shot and wins big, this fan base will explode.
Tommy wrote a great piece when the power was transferred. As an owner, you always have to go with the coach. Good GM’s are easier to find than good coaches.
What really irks me regarding the analysis of Howie is how little clarity there is regarding what he’s been responsible/accountable for here.
If you claim him to be good with #s, trades, etc. but not with real player/coach analysis and development, then his defenders attack you for unfairly criticizing him. So what is it then? You can’t get upset when people like me doubt his player/coach evaluation skills but then also be quick to dump any of the past draft woes and free agent acquisitions on Andy and Chip. So either Howie had a significant role in player/coach acquisition & development or he didn’t. And if he did, his track record isn’t nearly as great as many people claim it to be.
plus, if he got crushed by chip in that power struggle last year, how awesome could he have been? it’s not like lurie initially picked his insights over chips . . .
I am sure that is how Howie likes it and that is what scares me. He seems great at avoiding blame…
Officially he is responsible in 12’/13′. That’s all anyone knows for sure.
As far as finding coaches I would more or less lay the majority of that responsibility at Jeff’s feet.
Not like the guy has been some long tenured high ranking official. His previous climb was rapid, as was his fall.
59-53 is actually pretty good considering that the Eagles have lacked a franchise QB over that span, unless you count McNabb’s waning final two years.
So the logic is that we give the guy who was responsible for bringing in the players a pass because they didn’t have a franchise QB, but 2 coaches lose their jobs because the results weren’t good enough? Got it.
I don’t think the team’s record during his time as GM is really a big point in his favor. I just don’t think it’s a point against him either.
Its a winning record which is incredibly hard to achieve in the NFL. Considering most of that has been a down-time for the franchise, makes it feel even better to be an Eagles fan.
We can whine and cry about the color of the paint or the look of the drapes, but when it comes to NFL Franchises, we have a nice fucking house. Unfortunately we are spoiled and don’t see it.
Do a little more research and you can see an accurate time-line of personnel control within the organization.
Rosenman was kicked completely out of the football facilities. Not sure how he could be responsible for the children knowing that mommy and daddy weren’t getting along.
Matt Patricia would rule. a fat bearded coach is just what we need
He and Kelce could be beard buddies.
So the more I think of it, the more I wanted to see Fipp be the interim head coach for a game. Just him death-staring the whole damn team would be awesome. Or like him just knowing when the camera is on him and staring right into it.
I”m so jealous I didn’t think of this.
“I would say Roseman learned from some earlier mistakes and overall did a solid job in the 2012-2014 drafts. The one big exception is Smith, and it is possible a new coaching staff will be able to save his career. Right now Smith looks like a big time bust.”
Smith = Kelly forced first round pick rather than trading down again.
And you can back that up? Huff a CK or HR pick.
If there was an impulsive pick of a player higher than his valuation and/or selection of a guy over a player who was better; I’ll assume it was Chip. We’ll never know either way, but that is what I’m sticking with come hell or high water.
And Huff was all Kelly. Quack.
“If things go ideally, you’ll have Roseman being the big picture guy, Donahoe as the senior scout and the coach offering his perspective. They would bring three different backgrounds and three different perspectives to each situation. There wouldn’t be any knee-jerk decisions. The group would arrive at a consensus and base moves/strategy on that.”
Agree completely. Well-written!
No difference… Chip had plenty of voices that consulted him on decisions, ultimately 1 man always has to make the decisions, but there is ALWAYS collaboration on decisions. I assume Howie will have the final say on personnel decisipn, but he will have people consulting him just like Chip had, as well as every GM who ever worked in the NFL… Just Luriez bullshit semantics, playing with words…. Chip made the final decisions, now Howie makes the final decisions.. Yet there is ALWAYS a collaboration on decisions. Chip had Marynowitz, scouts and coaches advise him, and then Chip made the decision, now Howie will have the usual suspects consulting him, but Howie makes the decisions,.. You can ONLY collaborate to an extent, in the end, 1 man makes decisions… Sure there will be times where they all agree that we can call a “collaboration”… But when there are disagreements, ONE MAN makes the decision, and it seems like that will be Howie…
None of us knows who was most responsible for what pick, what signing, etc. However, Roseman was most visible in the 2012 and 2013 drafts, which are also the two best in recent team history, and the one person who IS best in position to know who was responsible for what (Lurie) clearly trusts him. I’m willing to roll with that.
Re: Patricia – I’d kick the tires, but as of right now I have very little interest. Belichick is the one running that defense and we’ve already seen his wunderkind coordinators flop spectacularly when hired as head coaches elsewhere on multiple occasions. Until I receive some strong evidence to the contrary Patricia is Eric Mangini 2.0. No thank you.
Agree.
I don’t get some of the commenters stroking Patricia, like he’s a defensive guru, but then poor-mouthing McDermott as nothing but Rivera’s scrivener.
not defending that position but i can understand people feeling reluctant about someone we fired from that exact position less than a decade ago
I think McDermott had a near impossible job here and actually did fairly well at it. Was most fired as a scapegoat.
30 year all time futility mark in red zone D while being 12th in yards allowed. Not a scape got at all; just overmatched as a coordinator.
would you say he was worse than billy d
I’ll call push, but I have way more respect for Billy Davis because he doesn’t make excuses or stand behind statistical explanations of lesser importance to avoid his proper share of the blame. Billy Davis is a good dude, just not a good coordinator. McDermott was neither.
sounds right. With Lurie talking about player relationships, McDermott would need to prove he has learned and changed his ways, and personality, and maybe he has, have no clue what the Panther players think of him. Winning always helps with that.
i don’t completely disagree, but i’m just explaining why some people might be reluctant. on the other hand, while his job may have been impossible, nobody forced him to behave in a dickish manner so the fact that he may have alienated people within the org does in fact fall on him.
DAWKINS swears by McDermott for whatever THATS worth.. He did spend years as Dawks position coach…. If we are going for a Panthers coach, Id prefer mIke Shula the OC. Think he did a fantastic job tailoring am pffense around the Talent they had… I like their power run game for Mathews/Murray, only we have to tweek It since we don’t have a running QB
…
I hope they interview MIke Shula, Patricia, Gunjther (the DC of the bengals), the OC of the Begals, Adam Gase..
..
If we are going to hire McDermott, I would insist on keeping Shurmur who he has history with, to retain Bradford. Shurmur has seen Bradford in two totally different offenses, Id like to have his Imput in designing an offense for Bradford… He can keep some of chips principles that worked well for us, but also learn from Chips mistakes, try to keep some of the same terminology so SAM can hit the ground running, instead of starting from ground zero again
..
Ultimately we all have uneducated preferences, but we have no clue how any coordinator will do as a first time head coach, so impossible to really judge the hire initially… Nothing to do but wait and see. And hope Howie and LURIE get it right
also http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2015/12/matt_patricia_engineers_patriots_defense
Don’t get me wrong, I’d interview Patricia. But I’m not going to hire him on the basis of a puff piece about how he has an engineering degree and fixed Bill Belichick’s car stereo. If he comes in and blows Lurie away with a detailed plan for organization building, and is a good fit personality-wise with Roseman and Donahue, maybe. But he’d have to kill it in the interview.
lol, thank you.
Bilicheck assistants have such a miserable track record I would stay away from them completely. I think very little talent leaves that particular organization when a coach moves on.
Bill O’Brien is doing a nice job. Revitalized the greatest college football program in the nation and has Houston playing good football with no QB.
Id interview Patricia for sure, but wouldn’t waste any time on Josh MCDaniels
after reading that I think Lurie will at least interview him during the Pats bye week. He seems to have the kind of personality that Lurie wants to bring in after Chip.
Plus there’s the whole Lurie taking copious notes on who made the best predictions about personnel and Howie coming out on top when there was a scramble after Reid’s failings, something Lurie has 0 reason to lie about especially since he easily could have kicked Howie to the curb last year instead of keeping him around in a neutered position.
For me it is especially telling because he had absolutely no reason to keep Howie around ESPECIALLY because he’s become so unpopular in Philly. Firing him would probably be a tremendously popular move with the fanbase, so why keep him around Unless he was confident that he brought something valuable to the table.
I’m already resigned to people shitting all over Roseman for whatever reason for the next forever but… c’mon folks, put 2 and 2 together here. Roseman’s back because he showed he was more right than anyone else there at the time and Lurie values that.
I’d love to see this:
HC – McDermott
OC – Shurmur
DC – Spags (assuming he’s available if Coughlin leaves)
Keep Duce to learn under Shurmur. Keep Bradford and use #1 pick on RT.
Switch to 4-3 with Hicks anchoring the defense.
No McDermott. No thanks.
No Shurmur. No thanks.
Do like the idea of Spags the DC post Coughlin firing/retirement.
Whereas I’m good with Shurmur as the OC / Bradford handler under Hue Jackson.
Spags would be good as the DC however. I like that suggestion from BD
Problem i have always had with Shurmur’s teams is that on 3rd and long they always seem to throw short of the down marker… some of that is good defense but some of that is play design/coaching.
If you have a strong offensive Coach then Shurmur could be a guy you keep for continuity but otherwise i would move on.
Shurmur’s “teams” would have to be Rams when he was OC and Browns as head coach (where I also think he called plays). The stuff here was all Kelly’s play calls.
Well it was true of the Rams and Browns and continued to be the case with the Eagles… Chips called plays but much of the pass concepts and routes were Shurmurs west coast in origin… and they tended to leave the open receiver 3-4 yards short and needing to make a guy miss for a 1st down.
*cough* Sam Bradford *cough*
I think that’s just a function of the WCO. QB is trained to go through progressions. Obviously, key is to do well on 1st and 2nd down.
If we can fix the OL, I actually think this offense has a chance to be very good.
One argument in favor of hiring a retread coach is that someone who’s already failed elsewhere may be more willing to concentrate on what he does best rather than insisting on final roster authority as well. I think it’s in the nature of football coaches to want total control, but those who’ve already made the mistake of biting off more than they can chew and been fired for it may be more willing to compromise and collaborate, which I think is generally the best approach to running a front office if it can be made to work.
Hue Jackson!
Maybe chip kelly??
Lurie and Chip the new Steinbrenner and Martin?
I think Chip has enough ego to need two NFL stints before his third will be successful.
Remember one definition of a camel – it’s a horse drawn up by a committee. The new structure sure sounds like a committee which portends camel-like results. Worse yet, Lurie’s description of what he wants in a new coach is complete management mumbo- jumbo. What does it mean? I don’t know and I’m sure he doesn’t either. He’s looking more and more incompetent as an owner and more Snyder-like. After all, it was Lurie who picked Kelly, telling all that this was a cutting edge coach who would revolutionize the sport.
Camels are dope, don’t know what you’re talking about.
I was about something similar. Moar camels.
Did You Know: Australia exports both sand and camels to the Middle East
Camels are pretty amazing creatures.
Yeah while I think it’s funny as a joke I never understood this line when used as an actual analogy. If I had to cross the desert with a limited amount of food and water I’d much rather have a camel than a horse.
If say one needed a fast, realiable, sturdy ride, most individuals would opt for a horse. A committee, on the other hand, over-thinking, over-analyzing and compromising would select a camel. One decision maker gets you Jordan Hicks; a committee gets you Marcus Smith.
Well, remember how we got this bullet-hole ridden roster in the first place: Giving the keys to one man.
And here’s the real-world translation of what Lurie wants: A coach who can relate to professional athletes and not treat them like college kids dependent on scholarships
Finally, Lurie took a bold chance in selecting Kelly in the first place and I think a lot of fans recognized that Kelly would be either boom or bust. Turned out to be bust and I salute Lurie for admitting that now and making the move to cut ties earlier rather than later.
Remind us how many coaches Lurie has hired? How many of those have been a success? How many have won a Super Bowl? Your real-world translation of what Lurie wants is a lot better than what he said; if Lurie had actually said this, I wouldn’t have a problem. Maybe we need an owner who is better at communicating!
He wants a fucking Super Bowl. He communicated that plainly
It appears you have come to an intellectual discussion unarmed and w/o ammo.
it appears u just wanna whine about our owner who I honestly believe does everything with the interest of winning. While I love the Eagles I loathe the self entitle whiny fans. Nothing u said was “intellectual” therefore did not deserve an intellectual response.
So will reiterate _ he wants to win fucking trophy _ How many owners would let a 3rd year coach blow up a 10 win team that just missed the play offs.
Maybe u should go root for the Cowboys JJ has won a few and he’s a great communicator just ask Garret lol
We know very little about Patricia, which I think makes us all like him more.
That being said, as someone said below, I’m on board the fat bearded head coach bandwagon. Next stop, Canton baby! Woo woo.
I’m anti-New England staff.
The Belichick Coaching/exec tree is gigantic, and barren. I don’t know if he looks for people without leadership qualities to make things smooth for him, or the fact that he just doesn’t take coaches under his wings and show them the ropes of the bigger picture or what. Just strange to me that a coach that has worked with so many people and everyone wants them to try to replicate that NE magic. Never works.
Obviously flawed logic, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with one of his underlings.
“I don’t know if he looks for people without leadership qualities to
make things smooth for him, or the fact that he just doesn’t take
coaches under his wings and show them the ropes of the bigger picture or
what.”
I’d go with both of those. BB is a very, very bad man – there is a reason he prefers to wear a hoodie.
Yeah, like if you saw a news teaser say “NFL coach arrested for murder”, you are automatically assuming it’s Belichick.
The obvious answer is that they see how BB does it and he is a transcendent talent people shouldn’t copy. Or his way works when you have a top 5 all time QB.
The other part is that BB hires his coaches who can teach football. He might well lower the importance of strategic leadership potential as he has it covered.
All you gotta do is find a HOF QB in the 6th round and you, too, can be a jeanyus.
just from watching the occasional pats game, he seems pretty unflappable and to relate very well to his guys
my coworker is a Pats fan and he said the guy is really smart. Something like Belichick said hes the kind of guy who could buy airplanes parts, assemble the airplane then go fly it the same day. Could be a bit of hyperbole of course but something along the lines of just one of those naturally gifted, super intelligent people. You wouldnt know it from how he looks though. Id rather have McDoushhhh and i cant stand that guy, I would just hope he learned from first go around just because I prefer an O guy.
You guys are too hard on McDermott
Personal wise he had a really weakening group when he came in as DC. Think he gets some bad flack and blame.
No idea if he will be a good head coach – Thats all about managing a coaching staff and players much less X’s and O’s. I personally would go back to college (but someone with some NFL experience) because that is the best place to find successful guys with those skills already tested.
Well people better warm up to him, because he’s the most likely person to be our head coach
if that’s true, why are they BSing us with this massive search by committee?
As is usually the case. Most teams do this.
you’re right. i’m just burned out on this specific team’s excessive secrecy and double talk
Oh i agree i think he could be the no.1 guy at this point… think they will go fresh faced OC or Payton (if available).
F that.
I mean I kinda want Hue Jackson, or maybe even Gase cuz I don’t think Paytin is an option but j think people should be ready for McDermott
Sorry for typos my phone is y’know…
Hue, Gase, and Payton would all be significantly better than McDermott.
And Domo mentioned that there were still “hard feelings” when it came to McDermott and Philly, so that will help keep him out of here I hope.
While i dont have the dislike for McDermott you have, I also would prefer the others. Not as high on Hue as some but would love Gase or Payton.
I really felt betrayed by the team in the playoffs in 2010. McDermott’s flippant attitude and rote parroting of “12th in yards” rather than owning the horrific red zone D left an eternal bad taste in my mouth.
And at least we are getting a 4-3 JJ defence again. Think we have pieces to be pretty good if it comes together.
Thinking it likely is him considering Eagles will not have the pick of the top candidates (Roseman, no QB, etc) and Lurie emphasized looking for someone that can fit with philadelphia and the fans, sounds like someone that will embrace being here, outreach type stuff, public relation stuff, and also understand the passion so they do not close themselves off from the fans, and hide or get defensive when criticism flies at them.
McDermott has the philly understanding down, but still might not connect with fans, but also he is likely not a top candidate, so will be sitting there waiting when Lurie’s top candidates go elsewhere.
Nope. He gets a pass for 2009 when he was brand new on the job. In 2010, which led to his firing, he had enough talent to be 12th in yards against, but set a 30 year low in red zone D TD % while finishing last in the league in that category. He was given a first round draft pick pass rusher who he had playing DE, coverage, and DT; how is a guy supposed to learn a position that way? When pressed about his work as DC after the Packers playoff loss, he whined about being 12th in yards against. Hey Sean; how many yards to you have to give up (or not give up) to win a game? Trent Cole, who is the personification of class and team-first mentality, put McDermott on blast as well. The guy was horrific to his players as well.
In Carolina he’s been given 4 superstar level players to work with and several other really top talents on D. He works for a head coach who is a D guy by trait and had a heavy hand in setting up Carolina’s D.
I’m utterly unimpressed by McDermott and think he’s the worst name I’ve seen thrown out there.
plus he looks like a super villain
Unless I am understanding their different roles incorrectly, the one aspect that you didn’t touch on that could be difficult is the fact that there are three different backgrounds rather than two, as seen in the examples you used. Are there other examples of successful FOs with three guys at the top with equal say?
It seems like so much of this franchise model is contingent on Lurie’s arbitrating skills and bullshit detecting. Basing a franchise executive’s competence on who he did or did not choose in a given draft, in this “collaborative” model particularly, is a stab in the dark. Does anybody really think Roseman sold Danny Watkins to Andy Reid AND Jeff Lurie, or was it maybe Andy, the former OG, convinced both that the 27 year-old fireman was a worthy first-round selection? Remember, Reid was given a great deal of leverage that he then used to dismantle a once-proud defense. But that’s not my point. Draft picks and FA signings will be associated with the name that the decider (Lurie) says is responsible. “Collaborative” is fine as long as the specter of a higher rung on the corporate ladder is nowhere in sight. Lurie does not want any of his “collaborators” vying for a higher perch because THAT is precisely what undermines “collaboration”. I don’t know if Roseman is the right guy to lead, but Lurie needs everybody to know that his guy speaks for him. If Roseman is not sure that Donahoe is up the task, he needs to get somebody who is. If there is tension there, than Donahoe needs to go, for no other reason than that Lurie trusts Howie.
An HC is charged with a boatload of responsibilities, but almost all of them fret over that which is NOT their responsibility. Parcells was an excellent HC in New York, but he left because he felt he needed to have a position in the FO. The Giants entertained that notion for a millisecond, and the big tuna became stale sushi, and the Giants won SB’s with other folks. Dan Snider deserves some credit, I think, for investing heavily (the only way he knows apparently) in his FO. This is where the franchise reputation is built. HC’s are much too transient to establish an enduring face. Look at Green Bay, it conjures up a variety of mental pictures: Rodgers? Farve? Lombardi? Maybe. Perhaps as many people think of Ron Wolf or Ted Thompson as think of Bart Starr. How many mental hits does Mike McCarthy get? Say Pittsburgh, and how many folks say Cowher or Noll? How many think Rooney?
The Eagles will be subject to long patches of floundering if Lurie is even slightly distracted. He wants what he wants, but he should not, in my opinion, assume the role of solomon with his staff. Put your guy in charge, and sign off only on the franchise-defining decisions. Lurie should think about the day he sells the team. Does he want a smooth-functioning operation, or a fire sale?
When you have three guys “collaborating”, no one’s in charge. Someone has to be the person who pulls the trigger on draft day and on trades.
its so dumb, what a mess.
I think it’s really just to calm the naysayers about Howie. Until new coach can be trusted to not be a crow when he says “I want that shiny bauble”, final decision will be Howie’s. And, until I see why it’s wrong, I’m okay with that.
not sure how anyone can convince themselves this is a good GM model. I wouldnt even say Howies track record is that awful, its not great by any means. Its more of why go backwards after this mess, why retread with what wasnt that successful prior. Then throw in the dynamics and relationships the new coach has to deal with and its just not good.
No Lurie is in charge.
If he makes the personnel decisions, we’ll become the 2000 Cowboys right quick.
3 people can vote.
Yeah, but that isn’t realistic. It’s gotta be a benevolent dictatorship and not a democracy.
Most of the work on draft day happens before draft day. I trust Roseman to be the one to stick the board when he is pulling the trigger on draft day trades.
Concur if that’s how it goes. The pre-draft should be teamwork. I’d pay good money to watch the process on draft day.
Based on the history of Bellichick as a very good DC, then a pretty bad HC, then a very capable HC, maybe Pat Shurmer deserves a look at HC. He struggled to be mediocre in Cleveland, but that FO was in shambles. He’s had three years to watch and learn from Chip, and he had a close up look at how the sausage was made. He, perhaps better than most, can pinpoint exactly what Kelly did or failed to do that contributed to the slop on the field. Just a thought.
I’m in the vast minority, but I’d be good with Shurmur as HC.
I actually wouldnt hate it but I just think it has a slim chance. I wouldnt love it either but I see those points as fair. Hes also familiar with the players and maybe even Howie. The glip side is missing out on maybe a top name thats available and further resentment from players keeping the old staff around (or some of it)
Hopefully he just stays as the OC
why? a new coach would bring his own staff
Depends on keeping Bradford on not. If you keep Bradford, Shurmur has value as the OC / QB coach in order to keep some continuity for Bradford’s development.
ya but very doubtful a new coach considers that and hires him. They all seem to have their own circles
But Shurmur has worked with different guys here, St. Louis, Cleveland, and here.
He’s in quite a few circles if you look at it.
All of them are losers.
Reid is a loser?
agree but youre also assuming that coach wants to keep a high end position like that left over from the previous failed regime. Just dont see it happening.
You’re more likely right than I, but I wouldn’t rule it out.
But sticking with Shurmur gives a new coach an easy fire to placate the organization and fans if things get off to a rocky start.
I think they should put the franchise tag on Bradford. That will give the new coach a year to see if Sam can be a QB who can get us to Superbowl
Or we need to get one from the 2017 draft which supposedly has a better QB pool than the 2016 draft. Great QBs are equally, if not more important, than great coaches. What coaching candidates think should be done at QB will be a huge factor in who gets hired. I hope they hire someone who will work with Sam, someone whom Sam will want to work with. My guess is Lurie likes Sam and Howie wants him out because Chip brought him in. I don’t have a lot of confidence in how any of this works out.
superbowl Sam, lol
Apropos of nothing;
Rhodes – coordinator, but never a HC
Reid – position coach, but never a HC
Kelly – college head HC, but never in the NFL
So the only thing missing from the Lurie hiring tree is…………..retread NFL head coach…………….so does that put Hue Jackson and Pat Shurmur in the lead for the job? Mike Shanahan?
come on MM, don’t be ridiculous….
The trend is clearly suggestion the next coach with be a college coordinator!
You could have also punked that out with suggesting HS coach.
That’s after College position coach
Also, both Rhodes and AR won recent SB’s as assistant coaches.
Chip was kinda the outcast. You wonder if McDaniels or Darrell Bevell is at top of Jeff’s list.
Interesting names for sure.
To me the biggest decision the Eagles have to make is the one at QB. Will the new head coach want to retain Sam? Will Sam want to stay and work with the new head coach? Does the new triumvirate believe Sam can blossom or do they let him go because he was brought in by Chip? I think these decisions will be big factors in selecting the new coach. Lurie’s comment that players like Cox, Curry and Bradford can play in any system suggests that he wants to keep Bradford. I hope the new coach will be someone who can work with the core players on the team and adjust the scheme to them. Lurie has to see that Chip’s inability to do this led to the team’s regression. He doesn’t want to go down that road again.
I’d like to cast a vote for keep Bradford on a 3 year deal and draft a guy to play behind Bradford until he’s ready to take the job.
To which Tom Condon says …
Yeah. If we keep Bradford, it’ll be a contract at least on par with Dalton.
They’ll probably franchise him and hope that Cousins sets the market.
I don’t think you can get Bradford on the Dalton deal because Dalton’s is “pay as you go.” Bradford isn’t hard up for cash because he’s not playing under 2nd rounder slave wages.
Thank you for 3 years / $54 million because it is much better than the franchise tag you’ve placed on my client that would leave him in a very bad spot. Also thank you for allowing my client to play several years here of high quality football while reestablishing his health and reputation to the point where he can hit the market (or stay here) at age 31 on a new 5 or 6 year deal at very high levels. Thank you again.
and Bradford goes down, ouch folks, same knee and only week 2 of 2016.
Not a problem with my deal structure and drafting the QB of the future in this year’s draft.
Bradford gets 3 years / $54 million with a $30 million signing bonus. That bonus money needs to be very significant in order to get him to sign for three years and an $18 AAV.
The deal would be
2016 – $6 mil salary $10 prorated – $16 mil cap hit (on a $155 mil cap)
2017 – $8 mil salary $10 prorated – $18 mil cap hit (on a $168 mil cap)
2018 – $10 mil salary $10 prorated = $20 mil cap hit (on a $183 mil cap)
So if he junks his knee year 1, we patch with a street dude until our future superstar is ready to play down the stretch. Cut Bradford going into 2017 and deal with the $20 mil dead money cap charge (which is only $2 mil more than his cap hit) and back up our new superstar QB with a mid level dude.
lurie called out sam as being scheme maleable or something like that, i think they’ll try to keep him.
That’ll be a fun interview question; “How malleable is your scheme to Sam Bradford?”
I’ll be cheering for Oklahoma tonight over Clemson BIG TIME.
No preference in the Bama / MSU game really, but I kind of don’t like Connor Cook…so I’ll go Bama. Plus Bama should be insurance against a Clemson title if they cheat to beat the Sooners.
No,always go with the underdog in games you do not care about!
In which game? I’m just not trying to see another running QB with a title. So I’m anti-Clemson.
In the Alabama/MSU game! MSU all the way, love watching smug Nick Saban get knocked off.
I like Okla as well
Mayfield runs
Not a fan of that either. But he has less rushing attempts. Less or two evils.
So go Bama I guess.
Mayfield runs like Vick too, he doesn’t slide or protect himself. But it’s fun to watch him run around and extending plays to the end.
Can’t say I’m a fan of that either. Can Bradford step in for the Sooners?
Betting Oklahoma? I usually don’t root against Dawk’s alma mater but I like Baker Mayfield and Oklahoma’s team this year.
Betting; hell no.
I can’t root against Dawk’s alma mater BIG TIME , that’s why I asked lol. Come on Dawk would be thrilled if Clemson won a championship !
Can Dawk just get his thrills by running onto the field Sunday and hitting Eli?
He probably does that all the time anyway…
Remember hisgoal line hit on culpepper ?? Whamo, fumble and duante never wanted to run again
I liked his open air termination of Ike Hilliard more. Not only was Hilliard put into critical condition, all of the New York whiners cried about Dawkins forever after that.
If Dabo doesn’t bring Dawk into the building for an epic pregame speech he would be missing a HUGE opportunity! I would run through a brick after a Dawk speech.
I got Clemson. Locked that bet down like 3 weeks ago, not realizing the game wasn’t until today.
Gonna have to pour a little champagne out for my man Chip tonight.
That’s alcohol abuse. Pour out some water instead.
Is it ok if you pour it down your throat?
I like the way you think.
In my office watching Houston vs. FSU, refusing to do work. Screw working today.
I’m working from home watching the same thing.
I think i will be leaving by two for the big games today.
Shame I have nobody to root for in that game, so I’ll have to settle for looking at players we could draft.
Again, always root for the underdog in games you don’t care about. Makes it way more fun… at least in my opinion
Except I have HUGE vendettas against both Houston and FSU. Houston is on the list for leaving us stuck with Kolb and also beating Temple this year. Also for playing a system with a running QB.
FSU is the anit-Christ. Until their fans admit the inferiority of Bowden to Joe Pa and all sign a statement to that effect; I hate them as well.
Hahaha, I hear ya I hear ya, you sir have some deeply held opinions. Can’t fault you for that
I was in the joe must gtfo camp .. but thats my final 2 cents for 2 0 1 5 …
best & wish you a sweet ’16 mr M M
you remind me of what they used to say about the old mayor of Boston, which is that everyone was on his sh$t list it was just a matter of which page your name appeared.
Guilty as charged!
I mean in that game Ramsey I guess
He good.
I have him top 5 in my board and so he should be gone
I’m just biding my time to get the hell out of dodge a few hours early.
I am in the camp that wanted Chip to have another year (if not two) with the qualifier that he hadn’t totally lost the locker room. If that was/is the case, change was needed.
So why did Lurie move on so “early?” One thought is that he was measuring Chip’s regime against Reid’s. While AR didn’t win the big one, his success with Green Bay, the Eagles, and now KC indicates that his way of doing things works at the NFL level.
If Lurie didn’t see some key things from Chip and his team that he saw from Reid and the Eagles, this may have been why Lurie cut bait so soon.
Just a thought.
Tommy, what’s your take on this? It’s some pretty damning stuff, and Lane Johnson doesn’t seem to have any immediate motive to slander Kelly: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20151231_Lane_Johnson_calls_Chip_Kelly_a_dictator.html#8GrR3Ei7z6UuGK4k.01
Hey, you stole my screen name.
Hey both of yoo’s
yous guyses
Sorry, first time poster. I thought Disqus would’ve prevented me from re-using the same name as anyone else.
we have no way to know if you’re the OP or an unprecedented 3rd Dave
I changed my name to Dave51 in Disqus and as far as I can tell it changed my name throughout all my posts so far.
lol, I would have thought Disqus would have done the same.
wow, you’re right, pretty ——-stuff right there
Lane Johnson is good enough to say what he thinks without it hurting him. It wouldn’t surprise me if other players might have felt the same but were warned by their agents to keep their mouths shut.
My criteria 1) NFL coaching experience at some level 2) can clearly articulate a plan to leverage team as it currently stands and what specifically he would need to take the next step with flexibility beyond simply a bunch of measurables (I never again want to hear about big people beating up little people) 3) a person who understands and can lay out how this three headed power structure could work 4) a solid plan for what assistant and position coaches he would pursue. I like the thoughts on Hue the most but admittedly know little about him beyond his success running an offense. With that side of the fence being in most need of help hope we go after an offensive oriented coach.
Funny I was reading your criteria for the coach and was thinking it fit Hue Jackson to a T.
I really just think he’s the smartest guy from the list of candidates and has shown success in his most recent stop. I bet he reflected a lot on what he could do differently from his time in Oakland as HC there.
I really think he’s the best guy for the job.
My man. Lets continue trying to get people on the Hue Jackson bandwagon. Forget Adam Gase, I am all about Jackson and if Payton becomes available I would take him.
Im all about Gase but when you compare the two, Hue is really a lot safer of a pick. Not that you dont gamble in these choices regardless. Gase is just young and a lot less experienced and Hue is also doing a great job with that offense in Cinci.
Your key word there is “gamble”. Lurie gambled with an inexperienced guy to make head coach albeit had no NFL experience at all, so I really don’t want another gamble on a young up and comer. Hue to me is not only the safe pick but the most logical. He has had great success in Cincy working with Dalton, which imo opinion him and Bradford are similar. A new coach would be stuck with the current backfield, which is similar to Cincy’s backfield. Basically I am all in on Jackson.
Gamble is an asshole. I’m glad Howie fired him and his father was an even bigger asshole for being a collaborator with Norman Braman and costing us Keith Jackson, Reggie White, Keith Byars, Eric Allen, Seth Joyner, and Clyde Simmons.
I agree with everything you just said Mike but when I said “gamble” I meant that in the literal term in regards to Lurie gambling on Chip so I don’t want another gamble, I want an coach with HC experience.
I’m aware. You just can’t say “gamble” in any use of the word around me in an Eagles conversation and not get my ire up.
I dig Gase as well, but think Hue is the best candidate. He makes the Red Reject look like the Red Rocket; that’s some coaching right there.
My thoughts exactly.
And Cincy has been much better on O in two years of Hue vs. multiple prior years of Gruden; so Washington can suck it.
Jackson wanted control over personnel. Ironically, he insisted on trading for Carson Palmer. Hue is a control freak not that it’s unusual. Not sure that would be deal breaker but I don’t know if that fits what they (not me) want. I like him, I feel we’d have a chance of stabilizing things. Jackson insisted on trading for Palmer (ironically) so he’d probably want to work with Bradford.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1018696-hue-jackson-fired-5-reasons-the-oakland-raiders-canned-their-coach
I’d hope he learned from that experience along with working under Lewis in Cincy.
How many great coaches haven’t been control freaks? John Madden, and who else?
Yes as I said it isn’t unusual. These may not be great coaches but who says we’re getting a great coach? Tom Coughlin and John Harbaugh don’t have full control of personnel for instance.
The Eagles are looking for more of a collaborative coach it sounds like.
For instance I read an article today speculating about Brian Kelly to Giants or Eagles. It quoted him as talking about controlling everything at ND and why would he leave that for NFL if he didn’t get control over everything (basically).
turns out, Big People beat up Little People as long as your team isn’t based around having the Big People run as fast as possible as long as possible.
Definitely agree and don’t even have a problem with taking big people all else being equal but just hope we no longer use it as a filter to weed out good players an inch or two too short.
or a crappy player just because he’s hulking
here’s my problem, who do you think wins a SB first, the Eagles or Chip Kelly? I think it’s Chip. If I can figure out that the downfall started with ignoring the OL, why can’t he? You give him Mariota and just an ok OL and Chip will make music.
All those great plays he drew up in past years, he didn’t forget all that. He wasn’t running it, likely b/c his OL was so horrible.
I’m still just sad.
Think it is the Eagles… they have decades to do it.. Chip has a far shorter window.
32 teams vs 1 winner… its tough to win, especially if you do not have a HOF QB.
fair point, but let’s say who has more wins at their next positions, Chip or the next Eagles coach?
Wouldn’t that depend on where he goes? If it is indeed TEN, I say the next Eagles coach would have more wins next year. The Titans roster is mediocre at best and although I don’t think the Eagles are loaded with talent I believe this team has more talented players then TEN.
if the birds couldn’t win with Dnabb and TO and westbrook, and dawk, who are they going to win with?
obviously people not on the team yet.
but man AR in his best days as a coach with that talent couldn’t pull it off.
makes me wonder if we ever win the trophy at all.
gotta figure out of system works in a sustainable way. chip has a lot to changebefore he can be successful someplace else.
Eagles!
I think those ‘great plays’ only worked because he had a roster that was inarguably better than opponents. Whenever he went up against a talented defense, he was shut down, and this was in college.
In the NFL, after DC’s adapted to his scheme, it was lights out. We saw it so many times this year. Defenses completely outscheming us and the only thing we could do is run the IZR for -2 yards.
If your O line stnks then wouldnt the sweep be the last pkay you run?
Id have thought we see more screens since they are running right padt our O line slready..
..
So was Chip holding back on all his good ideas for the next team ?
needed a team that could execute. think he thought practicing 4 plays you would master 4 plays and out execute opponent.
Easy to out-execute other college teams. Hard to out-execute NFL teams that are entirely composed of freak athletes, 275-lb monsters who run 4.7. Different world.
Especially when you try and block them with a 250lb center.
wait, that was one of howie’s best picks.
It was, when viewed in 2013. He needs to improve, last year wasn’t great, but this year has been dreadful.
Shady, who I dislike, made kelce and that whole line look better than it was, just my opinoin
and basically got traded for it
Kelce has been figured out. You just big boy him and he can’t function.
There’s some of that, but don’t forget all of the bad snap mechanics this year either. Painful.
Because he was getting jumpy due to getting big boyed.
True enough.
And reciever (s )
..which sure idnt whst chip said about big guys beating up lttle guys .. and forcing our db’s to be leading tacklers … mskes chip to he a hypocrite
Turns out opposing defenses mastered those 4 plays instead
wouldve thought as many times as they ran that play, it wouldve been perfected, but……..definition of insanity quote here
Yep
Some first time coaches succeed in their second job. Maybe that will happen for Chip too, but that doesn’t mean it was going to happen here.
I think at this point the odds are probably higher for him to win first, yes. Of course there is a chance we find the next Walsh. Just not as likely. So don’t give up hope.
I am sad too man.
The Eagles. Bet money on it if you can find someone willing to take it. The math is simple: The Eagles remain an NFL franchise if they screw up again over the next few years. Who is going to hire Kelly if he fails a second time?
Put aside the horrible personnel decisions and just focus on Kelly the NFL head coach. He was bad and for three years he not only didn’t get better, he got worse.
The analysis of this 4th and 1 play by Jimmy Kempski ( http://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-coaching-staff-got-schooled-4th-and-1-stop-against-cardinals/ ) not only highlights Chip’s failure but also serves as a metaphor for his time as an NFL coach: He doesn’t care if the other team knows what he is doing and adjusts for it – he is running the damn play anyway.
How can u think that without even knowing the new coach. CK never showed anything suggesting he could win the big one. In fact just about every game we NEEDED we lost the last 3 years.
most damning evidence that CK can’t win big games is losing at home to 2 different terrible road teams with the season on the line in ’13(SAINTS) and this year to the Redskins. I gave him a pass last year after losing Foles even thought we should have made the play offs starting 9-3
Maybe somebody can explain this to me without being sarcastic or unrealistic with hate…Why is the Philly media so adamant that Howie is a horrible GM? Is it because he is not a “football guy”? Did he personally insult all the beat writers?
My understanding is that he is always looking out for the best interest of the team, whether is be trading picks for value, negotiating contracts, signing free agents, etc. His drafts, and maneuvering in the draft to accumulate picks, seem to be much better than most teams. He is obviously good with long-term salary cap management.
It seems that ego and clashing with coaches is a given for almost all GMs. Using the words “Lurie’s Messiah” and “can do no wrong in Lurie’s eyes” seem to be buzzwords. Could it possible be that Lurie believes Howie is always looking out for the best interest of the team?
I know ex-scouts did not like Howie and agents have negative things to say when they don’t get the contracts they want. But seriously, why all the hate? Yes you can cherry pick some draft pick and free agent blunders with him as you can any GM. Or is it that the media will always hate the GM. They hated Banner, they hated Howie, and in a short period of time, they hated Chip the GM (who made several veiled references to Howie not being a “football guy”) before he was promoted to GM.
Is Howie that bad of a GM?
Howie (with Reid behind it) ran out the whole Banner clique and those guys all felt free to take pot shots at the team (and Howie rather than Andy) as things went sideways in 2011 and 2012. Our reporters, who I value and love to death because of their frequent and thorough reporting on the team, can only use the sources they get. Most of their sources were part of the Banner gang.
Correct me if I’m wrong, the media really seemed to dislike Banner when he was here. I can’t vividly remember all the sarcastic “Salary Cap Champions”, “Lurie’s childhood, bean counter friend”, cold-hearted GM who let Dawkins walk in free agency” articles.
Correct, but then they all gladly took his stories for publication after he left.
I have to admit, Banner is a really good follow in Twitter.
He’s funny as hell.
What perfect timing, Bleeding Click-Bait Nation just post’s an article with this title…”Eagles’ decision to put Howie Roseman back in charge and not hire a real general manager is very troubling”.
Yeah joe Nickles, fair nickname.
Hold some of these jerks accountable!!
Can u imagine all the eagles ads that take advantage of Dawk and then they treat him w max disrespect!!!
Sometimes this internet thing really does a good job.
Banner was great at some things, but he deserved the criticism he got because his cutthroat negotiations with players caused the Eagles to lose guys and made the team worse.
11 playoff wins under Banner…. Not many since.,
No franchise QB or possible HOF coach either
Who’s fault is that? banner sure had a franchise QB and coach when he was in charge
Nobody’s fault. Lurie and Banner hired Andy. Andy, not Banner, choose McNabb. Andy, not Banner, hired Jim Johnson.
Without Andy making those 2 decisions, 11 playoff wins wouldn’t have happened.
You’re giving way too much credit to Banner for 11 playoff wins.
it’s a mix of everything you describe above, and the fact that he’s still running the show instead of cleaning house and getting a new gm. i don’t hate him, but there’s a lot of people that haven’t gotten along with him.
who knows but we are about to find out more on the subject over the next few….
don’t forget we also like to complain so..
We’re entitled. 1960!
I value Sheil & Tommy for being the most level headed and non vacillating emotionally.
I love the comments sections, losts of good insight and great humor .. but wow they have all the ups and …..
What no sarcasm really… sorry i just zzzzzzzzzzzz
Put my own self to sleep ..
And gaveyself an upvote.
(I got tired of my own opinion and 3trying to type on the bus.. i love iggles b and 247)
Too bad the only beat writer really worth reading got scooped up by ESPN to cover the Seahawks before the season started. I really miss Sheil’s thoughtful analysis and reporting.
He’s not that bad, but he’s not that great either. He has seemed to do better when it’s known he’s the top guy and he has lieutenants that he’s hired that respect the fact that he’s the boss and don’t discount him as “not a football guy”. From the accounts that I’ve seen, once he’s secure in his position he is receptive to the input of others. So, it’s not as if he can’t work well with anyone. He and Grigson are still good friends, Donahoe has spoken highly of him in the past, and he obviously had some of the scouts on his side(Patch, Mueller) last year with the Kelly/Gamble power struggle. He also seems to get along well with agents for the most part, at least much better than Banner did. As Tommy mentioned, he’s very good with contracts and draft valuation. It’s hard to tell from the outside and not knowing “whose” pick each player was, but as far as draft evaluation goes he seems competent but not exceptional.
The issue is that from most accounts he’s a type A personality and when it isn’t made clear he’s the top guy he will fight tooth and nail to secure his position and standing and that leads to conflicts with coaches and other personnel guys who want to be the top dog. Lurie wants a “dynamic leader” as the HC but those guys tend to be type A personalities too that are likely to clash with Roseman. As far as the ex-personnel guys go, I think their issues with Howie have been as much their fault as his. Either he’s been the defined top guy and they haven’t liked that or they’ve been in competition with Roseman to be the top guy and they automatically think they should be in his spot because he’s “not a football guy.”
Ideally, I’d let Roseman go and start from scratch. If you’re going to keep him though, I think you’re better off stating clearly to everyone that he’s the top guy in charge and if you want to work for the Eagles you better recognize that and be willing to work with him. It’s not as if he can’t work with anyone. There are guys he’s had good relationships with. I think having a harmonious relationship between the HC and FO is key. We may not attract the best HC possibility with this method but it could still be a better situation than bringing in multiple players who all want total control.
It’s combination of things:
1) He’s Jewish
2) He’s a Moneyball style numbers nerd rather than a former athlete
3) Philly sports media will run with any story that allows them to tear someone down, and the guys that got fired and haven’t been successful anywhere else are happy to give them “inside information” on the guy that was able to keep his job.
4) Most importantly. Was rude to Tommy when they met.
If Howie was a great choice, LURIE would just be able to call him the GM, instead of having to give him some bullshit title because he doesn’t have the balls To deal with the public relations mess that would accompany naming Howie the GM.. So now, not only is Howie thhe GM, our owner is lying to us pretending that Howie isn’t.
..
Howie ISNT horrible, but there are so many other great football minds out there than Howie ROSEMAN. Why the fuck do we have to settle for Howie without even seeing what other GMs are out there?
..
Howie is an overly ambitious, backstabbing weasel.. He isnt someone that I think will do a Terrible job, but he had plenty of opportunities and it was never good enough. So why do we have to settle for him, without our owner even seeing if he can find better first?
As was pointed out in an earlier thread, by not naming an actual GM, Lurie got around the Roonie Rule and can hire a coach immediately. If he would have promoted Howie to the GM Title without interviewing a minority candidate, the Eagles would have lost a draft pick.
It’s going to be at least a month until he hires a coach… Can’t spend two weeks interviewing GMs to see if anyone interests him? This would make sense to me if a coach was hired next week, but it’s going to be a while before we hire a coach, so I don’t see the point to this Rooney rule theory
..
Again, I don’t think Howie is a terrible choice, but he damn sure ISNT good enough to Where we should just put him back into power without first seeing if we can find better… Interview 5 Gms, and if you still think Howie is our best option, than go with Howie..
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Howie damn sure didn’t do such a great job that we shouldn’t even look at any other Gms
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Why would anyone care about circumventing the Rooney rule? If you find a coach you want to hire, you interview a minority candidate, and announce the signing of your real coach the next day. Problem solved.
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ONLY reason Howie ISNT named GM is because of public relations and Howie not having the greatest reputation in some league circles.
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Im tired of the doubke talking and hiding behind semantics. If this is what lurie wants then have some fucking balls, stand upand name Howie the GM and don’t care what anyone else says…tired of being lied to, hiding behind semantics, and mpst of all ACCEPTING Mediocrity which is what LURIE is doing… This Franchise needs a fresh perspective, instead we are just settling without even seeing if we can find an upgrade, THATS my biggest problem. I actually like Howie with the exception of his penchant for making enemies and turning off some coaching candidates..
You have no inside information on any of this but act like you know what’s going on based on biased beat writers. Maybe the owner of a billion dollar company trusts the guy who moved up the corporate ladder in his company for the past 15-20 years moreso than an outsider. Trust cannot be underestimated when so much is on the line.
Hahahaha run along kid
The Associated Press and NFL.com both report that the Bills plan to cut LE Mario Williams in the offseason.
WKBW Buffalo’s Joe Buscaglia predicted the same thing two weeks ago. Williams hasn’t been a fit for coach Rex Ryan’s defense, and releasing him would create $12.9 million in cap space for 2016. Going on 31, Williams — who had 14.5 sacks just last year — also seems anxious to move on.
Well; if we go back to a 4-3……………………
but I’d rather build with youth. So count me out on him.
not for that much money
Smells like a Patriot on a one year deal.
exactly what I was thinking, then he’ll be all pro
And body bagging multiple Bills.
No thanks, not interested in people who sign Big money deals and don’t live up to it… It’s one thing if injuries kept you from living up to a contract, but can’t take a guy like Him.
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And by Now, we should have learned that our upgrades need to come via the Draft and further developing our young players… Free agency ISNT the answer… Identify one quality free agent starter like Jenkins and Barwin, then sigń two backüp types like Maragos and Nolan…. The rest has to be built thru the draft, and growing the young talent on our roster… Using free agency as a shortcut does more harm then good
question, with the new rules the way they skew to the offense, is it important to have a defensive minded coach still?
does defense still win championships these days. I mean obviously seattle did, but moving forward?
I’m of the opinion that having the best 53 man injury proof roster is the way to win. I don’t know if you need an O guy or a D guy. Last 3 title winners were Spec Teams – Harbaugh, D – Carroll, D – Belachick.
And all those teams had good Defenses the year they won
And good offense. You need em both. You need to get hot at the right time and roll.
You definitely need both sides of the ball. I just think defense has the slight edge later in the season.
You need an advantage somewhere. That usually is a QB who is better than most other human beings. It could be a great defense, if you are good at that. If you are the smartest coach in the league, Bellichick, you can win some extra games that way. Kelly’s advantage in 2013 was the freshness of the scheme, but that wore off quick.
finally fsu
Just realized that we host Cleveland next season. Chip + Johnny Football?
I really hope Chip goes to an AFC team.
New Dal OC
More like Chip + RG3! Their owner fired 25 different people because he was upset they “missed” on getting RG3 in the draft, so I expect the Browns to go after him now.
Watching “A Football Life” featuring Bruce Arians. Man.
Hey, you guys, Happy New Year to all of you.
And if there was a Lombardi Trophy for best football blog, you’d be hoisting it, T-Law.
Hear, hear.
Where can we upvote Tommy?
what’s the internet equivalent of dumping Gatorade on him if upvotes are hoisting him up on our shoulders?
I think it is the “Donate” button…
Happy New Year.
Resolutions?
1. stop obsessing about the Eagles so much. Next few years are going to be a slog.
But there is fun in that as well.
Reuben Frank has been making an ass out of himself with his personal dislike of Roseman. First it was talking about how much he loved the Chip Kelly hire on CSN and then immediately saying the people that hired Chip Kelly should not lead the next search.
First of all, sometimes the right move doesn’t always work out. We see that with trades and draft picks all the time. That doesn’t mean it was necessarily a bad move. It might have been a good move that didn’t work out. Chip Kelly did not work out and I am glad he is now gone – that doesn’t mean I am going to go back and retroactively call it a bad hire.
Secondly, if Reuben Frank was so wrong about the Chip Kelly hire, why the hell should anyone listen to him now? His own logic makes his opinion worthless. The guys who made the Chip Kelly hire should be disowned but the guys who applauded the hire most should be listened to now? Gotcha Rube.
I agree with not listening to Frank but one should expect the team selecting a coach to be more knowledgeable than a media member. While I think Lurie/Roseman/Smolenski should all be involved in the search I do think others should be involved in the search too. Former players like Dawkins. I don’t know who specifically but an older retired coach/GM that is better at reading people than it seems like at least Lurie and Roseman are.
They should have DAWKINS, B-west, and Dick Vermiel sitting in on every coaching interview, and they should hire someone like Bill Polian just as an advisor during this search..
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Then again, I think our coaching hire will be limited bcause not every candidate would accept a job answering to Howie
Why not bring in all ex-players and coaches who now work in the media. While there at it, they should bring in Sal Pal, Mike Mayock and Stephen A Smith. Heck, why not Former Governor Ed Rendell. They all have Philly media ties and no front office experience.
If I trusted the 3 stooges in charge of the coaching search, I wouldn’t feel the need to hire consultants. Forget the Names vermiel, DAWKINS, westbrook, just examples for what I really want, which is someone who has played or coached the game to sit in on the interviews who can better digest the X’s and O’s/scheme portion of the Candidates interview..
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I’m not suggesting we empower anyone. I’m asking for someone who has coached, or has been coached to sit in the interviews who can better digest the candidates scheme portion of the interview presentation, who has a different perspective than what Howie, Don and Jeffry bring to the table… It can be a well respected former player or coach, or It can be an experienced GM like Bill Polian who has conducted his share of coaching searches.. Whoever the consultant in, just offers an opinion from a point of view we don’t have, then LURIE can take or ignore his advice..
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Someone with a strong understanding of football schemes, OR someone who has experiemce in coaching Hires…
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Excuse you but I think we can use a fresh set of eyes besides an owner who has hired Rhodes, Andy and Chip, Smolenski who isn’t a football guy, and Howie who has no football experience, and who has ONLY been part of 1 coaching search, which didn’t turn out so well.
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I don’t know about you, but I’d feel more comfortable with someone in that room advising them, who brings a fresh perspective, and who has more football experiemce than 3 business men trying to choose a coach
Rewatch the press conference, Lurie said the three of them would be LEADING the search. He stated others will be involved in the process. If I remember right, when they hired Chip, they consulted with several outside sources.
I think one thing is pretty apparent, you have no confidence in the Eagles ownership and management team. You obviously think you are smarter than them and regardless of what they do, you will most-likely not be happy and find something to be critical of them.
Lmao ok kid…
Don’t get lost in thought; you’d be in unfamiliar territory.
Except for Vermeil, that makes no sense. You can get to nowhere fast when the group is too big. Dawkins and BWest, as much as I loved them, are no part of the Eagles now. Nobody in the media should be involved – major conflict of interest. If you want to do anything like that have 1 or 2 current players who are established leaders/vets go to interviews, e.g. Conner Barwin and-or Darren Sproles.
Maybe Harold Carmichael who worked for a long time for the Eagles as director of player relations would be a good option.
Someone with actual football experience to offer an opinipn to the 3 business men who are hiring a football coach would be nice.. Respected player, respected coach, even a experienced GM who has had some success with past coaching hires
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If the 3 business men where hiring an executive, I wouldn’t feel the need for a consultant.. Since none of the 3 are football guys, they are all business men who became “football guys”… Someone who can understand the scheme portion of the candidates presentation.
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I don’t get the blind faith in Howie making a Coachng hire and he has ONLY ever been a part of one coaching search, chip, which didn’t work out how we had hoped… Why wouldn’t I wamt a Experiemced consultant when we lack so much football experiemce amongst the 3 stooges making the decision?
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Don’t see how extra educated opinions can hurt… More info you can use to make a decision, the better
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Forget the specific names… Just examples for having someone in the room that has coached in the NFL, or that has been coached in the NFL.
.l
Someone who can really understand when the candidate starts talking about the schemes and X’s and O’s he plans on bringing to philly..
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More IMPORTANTLY, someone with a Fresh set of eyes besides our stale front office..or someone with experiemce hiring successful coaches with the exception of our owner,.. Howie has been a part of 1 coaching search, and he hire someone that lasted 3 seasons.. Not THAT successful
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If we are going to have 3 business men choose a football coach. At least have an advisor in that room who is a True “football guy”, not a business man turned “football guy”..
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Not suggesting impowering anyone, just hoping for a fresh pair of eyes with NFL experiemce sitting in on interviews and offering an opinion.. It can be a respected former player, respeced former coach, or respected former GM… If you haven’t noticed, most of the qualified people either work for an NFL franchise, or transitioned to the media..
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Id Gladly not have to go this route, but for me, THAT would require hiring an experienced GM and letting him and LURIE make the coaching hire, the way it should be,
Dawkins and B-West? And Vermeil? That’s funny.
Polian? Sure, why not.
Reuben is brutal. He’s also the number 1 cheerleader for hiring McDermott.
He and Les are both washed up. Unfortunately, the fact that they still have jobs means that more than half of Eagles fans are clueless.
I wish I had Reub’s job. Just fire off 25 random points about music and how much you hate the I-95 construction every week and collect a paycheck.
Indy may be worse, especially if Chip adjusts and runs a more pro-style offense and wins multiple SB’s.
Sure. I don’t think Chip deserved to be fired based on his record. I would’ve given him another season. I’ll take Lurie at his word that he didn’t like the direction the team was headed and put a bit of stock in reports that Chip wasn’t well-liked and had communication issues with his players and with other people in the organization so I’m okay with it, but certainly 26-21 is not the reason he’s no longer the coach.
As for HR and a franchise QB, he’s never really had a chance to whiff on a franchise QB. He’s only ever had one franchise QB and that was at a point that there were no elite prospects in the draft and everyone thought “the guy” might already be on the roster. I won’t hold that against him. Supposedly he was high on Russell Wilson and wanted to take him ahead of Foles but was beaten to it by the Seahawks.
I don’t get the “well-liked” bit about Head Coaches. Most successful ones were not adored by the players. There are exceptions, but very few.
I don’t think not being well-liked is sufficient cause to be fired. You can get away with being an asshole if you win. But when you don’t win, it exacerbates your problems and hastens your downfall.
Kelly’s going to have to learn to mix up his formations and play calling to the point where they’re not so predictable that opposing defenders are calling out plays before the snap and repeatedly beating the blocking scheme to drop runners for five yard losses as well. His poor roster management is far from the only reason the team struggled this year.
Don’t know if you guys have seen this but apparently the Giants are going to promote GJ Kinne from their PS and he’s going to play some safety for them on Sunday. QB/RB/WR/TE/S/STs, I think letting this guy go was the beginning of the end for Chip.
Good for GJ. Since Tom is probably gone, I would imagine it is more of a attaboy for him. Right?
Perhaps, but their secondary has had so many injuries it may just be a necessity.
Hopefully we will get to see a little Thad Lewis vs. GJ Kinne action.
Thad Lewis back to pass, Kinne picks it off! TD Giants! Why are the Eagles fans in Giants stadium cheering! What’s that? “BETTER DRAFT PICK! BETTER DRAFT PICK!”
Tebo
Mostert!
Good article here:
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/12/31/malcolm-jenkins-lane-johnson-philadelphia-eagles-chip-kelly/
IDK, Jenkins was sought out by Chip as a veteran leader. He most certainly had a much different relationship than most of the other players.
Im really starting to dislike Lane
He’s giving his personal opinion based on his experience with Chip. Jenkins had a different opinion because he had a different relationship with Chip. Neither is wrong in their personal viewpoints.
i don’t fault Lane for feeling that way and expressing it if it really bothered him…..but IMO the guy seems like a total open book and someone who is willing to spill the beans about in house stuff. That’s great if your someone holding a microphone to his face or if your a fan who loves the drama aspect of the NFL…..but if he played with me or for me i think i’d tell him to shut his mouth about certain things in the future
My thoughts exactly. We won’t call him for the bank job.
“He who is once a traitor should never after be trusted.”
Lycurgus.
I agree that it’s weird to think Lane and other players were bothered by FO tension. On the other hand, Jenkins ultimately says that it was too hard to establish a relationship with Chip and that there was no culture. Rather than allowing leaders/players to police themselves, Chip micromanaged (through Harris and other coaches).
They are both saying the same thing about Chip, Lane is just more blunt/dramatic.
Chip didn’t even have a leadership council… That’s really all That needs to be said lol
Chuck Pagano is being fired
Reports out of Indy are that Chuck Pagano isn’t going to be retained and Grigson will stay through the coaching search but there’s no guarantee he’ll be GM after that. Sounds like they want an all-powerful HC with personnel authority. Rumor is they’ll try to get Saban.
Grigson and Roseman are good friends and Pagano and Grigson hate each other, so there’s zero chance of the Eagles hiring Pagano.
Good.. There is no reason to hire Pagano. Except for the fact that he is a very well liked playërs coach which is the opposite of chip … But put your playërs in position to succeed and Players will like the coach no matter of his personality. When you are losing, THATS when players are more critical of your flaws.. Winning is truly the best Deoderant
YES! Pagano is garbage HC
More on Chip from Schefter. Apparently it wasn’t just the players and Roseman that had issues with Kelly. He couldn’t connect with Lurie either.
Also says that Chip would have had interst in the Navy job if it had come open and he may not necessarily stay in the NFL.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14455796/chip-kelly-did-not-chance-keep-job-some-mystery-surrounds-next-move-nfl
If Kelly really was eyeing the Navy job, then he was not committed to the Eagles. Certainly not happy here.
Who should we be watching in the OU Clemson game?
WR No.3 on OU. Kid is dynamic. Clemson has a few players too. I just cant remember any names or numbers right now.
for Clemson DE/EDGE Shaw Lawson, CB’s Cordrea Tankersley and Mackensie Alexander……i think WR Mike Williams is injured
i should mention S Jayron Kearse
I forgot about him. We might be in the market for a new safety this offseason
With Chip gone, and no idea what offseason moves will be made and what kind of coach is coming in i have no idea what to look for so i’m just looking at everything
I’m just assuming the mirrored safeties thing is leaving with Chip, plus Thurmond is a FA
most likely
I didn’t think that was a bad idea either. I just would have liked to a little more physicality there.
Yeah.. Thurmond is just so small. If we didn’t need a OT or QB I wouldn’t mind grabbing Ramsey to pair with Jenkins
How about good players for a change.
For Oklahoma as mention WR Sterling Shephard, CB Zack Sanchez, DE CHarles Tapper
Thanks
also forgot about OLB Erik Striker for Oklahoma….Chips “measurables” still screwing with me
Shaw Lawson is nice…..did very well against Notre Dame LT Ronnie Stanley earlier this year
Dosnt Clemson have a beast new L tackle for us.. #77 ?
I find it very interesting that Donahoe and Roseman are both guys in charge that had a power struggle with a HC.
grigson and roseman love eachother and you can see what’s coming out of indy right now.
I don’t understand how you have Luck and no OL or a better defense.
he thinks all you need is wrs.
Sounds like someone else I know that didn’t work out as a GM. Matt Millen.
If you look around the league, most GMs have had a power struggle with a HC at some point.
I was unaware of that. Can you give me some examples?
The “ruling by consensus” thing rarely works. It leads to wishy-washy decisions, with change from day-to-day and lead nowhere. Kind of like the Republican Congress defeating every bill from the White House, without any regard for whether it’s actually going to benefit the public. The taxpayers footing the bill for everything. Btw, I am not a Republican or Democrat, so don’t start. There must be someone with final say about personnel. Pleeease don’t let it be Roseman.
How one play can change the momentum. After Clemson scored easily and shut down the OK offense on the 1st drive – that play where OK should have gotten the fumble seems to have given them life.
Game on again.
I could get down with a Hugh Jackson as our headcoach.. Not only does he have tons Of NFL experience, I also kind of like that he had Headcoach experience, Failed and had to work his way back up to being a HEADCoach candidte… He didn’t immediately get another head coach job, he had to work back up to it, so I trust that he would have learned from his mistakes as Raiders HEADCoach..
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The guy Knows football. He was a college QB, then held a bunch of different college coaching Gigs, 3 NFL summer Internships before getting a pro jobs as RB coach in DC, WR coach for the Bemgals when they had Chad Johnson and TJ Houz, so this is a coach that has plenty experience dealing with pro Diva’s. Spurrier even łet him do some of the play calling in DC.. Then he coached the bengals RB’s, and is now their OC..
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I also like that he had experience in the dysfunctional raider days, and he has experience with a top rated Bengals team, so he knows what an organization SHOULD look like, and what it SHOULDNT look like..
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This would be his 2nd HC job, to prove he learned from mistakes and can be a great pro Headcoach, because he may never get another HC job if he fails again…HC jobs werent given to him, he really has had to earn them… Playërs love the guy…
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I kind of like a Coordinator who had HC experience and Failed, and is now looking to prove he is better than that, instead of hiring a coordinator who has never been a pro HC…
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Josh McDanieks would also fit THIS mold, but he doesmt interest me at all…
I’m not completely sold with Hue, but I saw someone, maybe on BGN talking about his failure as a HC should automatically eliminate him, which is such bullshit.
Not only did he coach the Oakland Raiders, who were not only a clusterfuck but also gave him the long tenure of a single year, but just like the vast majority of SB winners have elite QBs, most of their HCs had been fired at least once as a HC in the NFL. The argument that he failed should be no means work against him. Funnily enough though, Jim Schwartz was my favorite for a new DC, but because he stunk as a HC i’d rather not see him as a HC candidate with us. Moral and when it is double and all…
Personally, I’d prefer a defensive minded HC, but I could probably get behind Hue, Gase, McDaniels or frankly David Shaw. I just like a defensive minded HC with a QB guru as a OC.
I personally prefer a qb guru as HC with a former o-line coash/run game guru as o-coordinator. simply because QB is the most important position in football, and having a true qb whisperer that can’t be plucked from your staff is a huge plus in my mind. run game guys can be replaced, but an elite offensive mind who caters his system to qb success/development is irreplaceable.
On the other hand with a actually good QB is fairly easy to keep performing offensively despite scheme. A good defense can be formed in many different ways, but is much less dependent on a single player and more dependent on the defensive scheme.
Also, ironically considering my history of disrespecting Bradford because he isn’t great and you need a great QB to win the SB, I subscribe to the old saying that defense wins championships.
Frankly, i’m just a defensive guy, which is why I want a defensive HC when all is said an done.
fair enough, i just think that without a 85 bears/00 ravens style d, you NEED a franchise QB, and I don’t think this defense can be THAT good, so the development of our QB, SB or a rookie, should be of paramount importance
I’m not completely sold on anyone, because the truth is that there isnt a single fan or media member who has the slightest clue how any of these candidates will do as a head coach… We all have favorites based off a fraction of the info we know, but in reality, as fans we have no idea how any candidate with minimal HC experience will end up doing,.
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Hugh is just someome, Id like to see us interview before we make a decision, THATS all…. No one has any idea how he will be as a coach..
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Especially since a MAJOR part of the coaching hire is the staff he hires to coach under him. Without this info, impossible to have a real accurate convo about these candidates…. Nothing to do but wait and see, and hope the 3 stooges picking the coach learmed anything from past failures..
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But so far, their track record says that they didn’t even have the sense to even interview the two best coaches during the last coaching search. We didn’t even interview Arians or Todd Bowles, both Philly guys who understand this city at that….. Hopefully we get it right this time… Not just hire a coach we think we like, but hire a coach that goes on to deliver
“Hugh Jackson . . . [f]ailed and had to work his way back up . . . .”
__________
The facts suggest otherwise.
In 2011, Jackson went 8-8 in his single season as Oakland’s HC — actually, a pretty good record for the Raiders in the final decade of Al Davis’s reign.
Davis was ill and passed away during the 2011 season.
And Jackson took control of personnel in the vacuum created by Davis’s illness and death.
But Jackson made a horrible trade for Carson Palmer with Cincinnati — sending the Bengals a 1st and 2nd for a QB who’d retired and wasn’t going to play again.
After 2011, new management — Raleigh McKenzie — came in and canned Jackson.
He’s a good offensive coach. But a guy who seems to think of himself as a personnel wizard.
If you consider how well Palmer has done in Arizona, that trade was arguably worth the risk.
Greg:
Before characterizing the deal, I thought about how well he’s done in AZ.
So that’s why I noted that Palmer was “retired” from Cincy.
In other words, Jackson overpaid . . . compounded by the lack of big-play talent in OAK.
But your sure right that Palmer, who — unlike Bradford — had posted big numbers and won a division title with the Bengals, was still a very good QB. And Jackson knew you need a QB to win
Multiple media guys are now reporting that although they aren’t calling it a GM, the Eagles will hire a new personnel director at some point. Donahoe is just doing it for the interim.
donahoe apparently works remotely – not a day to day guy.
In past. He was just a senior advisor. I’d expect he’ll be there day-to-day until the a permanent hire is made.
work from home.
Most of the scouting department is remote.
Time to Happy New Year everyone .. let the burds rest for an evening
And the rout is on.
Wow, Belichik coming out in support of CK and giving shots to some of the detractors.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/the_blitz/2015/12/bill_belichick_disappointed_in_chip_kellys_firing
Don’t worry we’ll go on with a string of retreads as chip establishes a dynasty somewhere
This is not outside the realm of possibility.
What’s he supposed to say? This is PR fluff.
I don’t see New England running a tempo-only offense with just a handful of plays from which to choose.
They do sometimes, and that’s the difference. Belichik doesn’t do it all game, but the idea of the hurry up that they do run and snapping the ball quickly came from Kelly.
Grigson seems like a big ball of fun.
http://www.wthr.com/story/30863550/kravitz-grigsons-meddling-helped-undermine-soon-to-be-fired-pagano
howie taught him well
The dark side proponents were the good guys, at least in the original. The Rebellion? Terrorists!
There are a few GM’s of the past and present who do this. They assemble the team, then get frightened that the team they put together won’t play well so they interject themselves in practices and game day because they don’t trust the coach (whom they hired mind you) to take care of their baby. It causes obvious friction from the top on down. The situation in Cleveland with GM Ray Farmer is the first that comes to mind, who wanted to tell Coach Mike Pettine what players should start, and even Kyle Shanahan asked for his release as OC because Farmer wanted direct contact to his headset to know what plays he was running, and even went as far as texting Shanahan plays he wanted run during the game. A lot of talk of these type of things in San Fran as well, and it’s been speculated that the reason Jim Tomsula was hired as HC is because he’s a puppet of the FO and they can control the team through him. Even in organizations that have had decent success in recent years like the Broncos have had issues, John Fox and John Elway have admitted they had differences and it ended with Elway dumping him even though Fox has a pretty good resume, although no SB.
I don’t support what Grigson reportedly did but coaches insert themselves into the personnel process all the time and often eventually often want to take over that role too. Most people consider that par for the course. Yet, a GM that inserts himself into coaching decisons is considered horrible.
Great point! Excellent
tough when your job relies on the performance of someone that you have no control over
It’s not about his job, it’s about what is best for the organization and team. He should not be in that line of work if he doesn’t adhere to that first.
i mainly feel that long-term success comes down to one simple thing and that is a trusting relationship. I feel that when a GM hires a coach, he needs to let that guy/girl do the coaching and not interfere on gameday. And if i was a GM i would kinda want my coach to have a say or at least be in the room during offseason activities…..i wouldn’t want that guy to have to “insert” himself, i’d make sure he was included, he is the one coaching the team I am responsible for putting together after all. Sure, Ego’s can easily get in the way and it happens too often, sounds like it just happened right here. Some coaches/GM’s learn from their mistakes and some don’t. Pete Carroll is an example of a guy who did learn since he was offered full control in 2010 when he was hired by Seattle, but Pete knew he wasn’t capable of handling it all by himself and already had John Schneider in mind upon being hired. They have an outstanding relationship. Their recent division rival, the niners is an example of a bad relationship between talented coach and GM……and type-A personalities….just like here. I didn’t mean to come off as “anti-gm” just stating that some GM’s want to “Buy the groceries, and cook the meal” instead of the other way around.
but what happens when coach loses w gm’s players
they get fired….and maybe GM gets second chance….depending on his relationship with owner/organization
I’m okay coaches insert themselves into personnel process and agree it’s horrible a GM inserts himself into coaching decision.
No mas.
I like this Aaron Burbridge, WR for Mich St…..nothing flashy, probably a day 3 draft pick
Someone asked John Middlekauf about Howie and this was his response….
John Middlekauff
@JohnMiddlekauff
31 Dec 2015
John Middlekauff Retweeted Nick Morano
Yes – Very good w/ contracts & player value in FA/Draft….irony is his strengths were everything Chip sucked at
John Middlekauff added,
Nick Morano
@Nick_Philly1
@JohnMiddlekauff When you worked with the Eagles, did you work with or under Howie Roseman? If so, what are ur opinions of him?
Not anything we don’t know. I asked him about his weaknesses but haven’t got a response as of yet.
7 retweets
10 likes
Ironically, Kelly — for all his talk about a “growth mindset” — seemed so set in his views about some things. And what equals a “football guy.”
I keep coming back to something I read about Chip when he was hired… several people at Oregon thought he had some form of autism. He was smart and driven, but could not relate to people outside of x’s and o’s. More or less, outside of football, he was antisocial.
Had the same thought.
Aspergers, low end of the autism spectrum, was suggested, I think.
a lot of people think sherlock holmes was based on someone with aspergers
Being anti social and being on the autism spectrum are two very different things.
I agree. I know nothing about psychology and have no desire to diagnose Chip. My point was that others thought Chip had some sort of disorder since he was so antisocial about everything outside of football x’s and o’s. Here is the article if you’re interested, I think it may shed some light on the player quotes that came out in the past couple days….http://www.phillymag.com/articles/chip-kelly-eagles/
You couldn’t be more right.
Not good form to reply by myself but based on what he said I can see how Lurie may have thought Kelly and Roseman would fit well together. Of course, they’re both type A personalities with lack of social skills so it was inevitable they’d clash.
He’s also talked about a few weeks ago that he and everybody else in the org were shocked Grigson got a GM job when he did.
From what I’ve seen of Grigson he’s a good guy to have as a scout finding hidden gems and sleepers but he’s not a big picture guy. I could see how his and Howie’s skills might mesh if their personalities did.
Here’s my first attempt at something vaguely similar to “inside information”. If they go with Grigson, which I wouldn’t be a fan of, remember that he’s a bit of a holy roller. He had quotes along the lines of wanting to find players for Indy for whom “faith” was important. Nevermind the fact that this is 100% against federal employment law, but OK, we’ll sit with it for now.
Recently, Sean McDermott was inducted into the La Salle HS hall of fame. He was the same year as my brother (I think it was ’93). My brother attended because the swim coach from the 90s, who recently passed from cancer, was being inducted as well. Regardless, during McDermott’s speech, he spoke about how every day, he gives “testament” to Jesus Christ. Even having grown up Catholic, I have no idea what that means, but OK, we’ll sit with it for now.
My point is, if Grigson is indeed the guy, I would expect more attention than might otherwise be warranted given to McDermott as a HC candidate. Frankly, I don’t think he’s ready, and I’d prefer an offensive mind in today’s league (and many of the top offensive guys have more experience, like Hue Jackson). But I figured I’d share whatever tangentially “inside” information I have.
Read somewhere that McDermott and Roseman didn’t get along when McDermott was D-coordinator. However, I also read that Roseman and Pat Shurmur get along well.
shurmur doesn’t seem like a super strong personality.
Two type A personalities are never going to gel well. If you’re going to keep Roseman(which I disagree with), maybe that’s needed.
But does a winning locker room require a Type-A as coach …
The perceived alpha-dog of a franchise’s football ops?
Mark Trestman vs John Fox
I don’t think so. You can be a leader without being a type a personality.
I actually really like Shurmurs personality… Seems like a good blend of Chill and no Nonsense business like….
Canton is full of guys who were never choir boys.
When Phil Savage was the Browns’ GM, he made similar comments.
Fired and became a consultant for the Birds
Now he runs the Senior Bowl!
LaSalle sux
Boooo
Some guy mentions Jesus in his HOF speech at his former Catholic high school and that’s supposed to be some sort of testament to his ability to be a head coach? Get over yourself.
Um, yes. “Every day, I give testament to Jesus Christ” is far more fundamentalist than ANYTHING that was ever taught at La Salle. It’s not the kind of thing that happened there.
Sorry to offend your delicate religious sensibilities. Not sure how this was even remotely worth telling me to “get over myself”. Oh, and there is no god.
“Every day, I give testament to Jesus Christ” could mean the way he lives his life. And you’re taking a quote from a speech he’s giving at his CATHOLIC high school. You’re being very unreasonable.
In a large family of Catholics, I have maybe one cousin who talks like that. I can’t think of one person I ever went to La Salle with who ever spoke that way (I graduated the year before McDermott and my brother started there). It’s not how typical Catholics speak. I actually believe the word he used was “TESTIMONY”, which is even weirder. Like he’s on the stand every day for Christ in the trial for the universe.
And I’m still not sure what’s unreasonable about what I’m saying. My original post cast no judgment on how McDermott chooses to live his life. It was merely drawing a connection between him and Grigson. You’re the one who chose to take that as an attack on the Christ.
It’s how evangelicals talk
Yep, not a Catholic way of talking.
i don’t think that is what he is saying…..he is trying to get a read on what the eagles will do in the future. Howie is close with Ryan Grigson who could be let go in Indy, so Howie maybe bring him here to GM. Mcdermott is a hot HC candidate. So he is speculating since they are both somewhat religious that they could have interest in working together…….that’s all
Actually yes, that is a bad indicator. Why would you trust someone who still believes in Santa Claus?
I frankly don’t care if he believes in Santa Claus or not. I have a problem if he only wants to hire people who also believe in Santa Claus.
I don’t think anyone should be judged solely on their religious beliefs
No place in a professional environment for fairy tales and elves. I’m with you.
orcs are cool though
connor cook not a captain?
“too hollywood” is what they say about him
According to a few things written about him on scouting websites, coaches and teammates do not like him as a person…a la Jay Cutler.
edit: spelling
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.
Connor Cook is a hated man. Besides not being a captain his team mates flat out don’t like him. Some begrugingly put up with him because he’s talented but people who have talked to his teammates all say basically no one likes him.
Something to think about: The Eagles all time record against the Giants is 79-84. That’s the closest we are are to any NFC East team. So it would be nice to be closer to catching them.
hopefully we can start next year…..i would really like to lose this game
My philosophy: root for the Eagles to win, and then if they don’t you get the consolation of a better draft pick. You can’t lose either way.
No thanks, the win will never be remembered.
They could lose 5-7 spots in draft. I looked at all teams we can catch or can catch us (schedule, big SOS differences) and we’re probably getting 10 or 11 spot if we lose or 15-17 spot if we win.
It could possibly matter with QBs as well. Might not but we need as many options to find QB as we can optimize.
Josh McDaniels was the Rams OC back in 2011 during Sam Bradford’s 2nd year.
Brian Shottenheimer was OC for Bradford in his Y-3 (2013) Bradford’s best year.
And Sanchez’s Y-3, too. Also his best year.
Bradford’s best season is actually this year.
For me 14 TDs and 4 INTs in less than 7 full games was his best season. He was playing better than this year. I think.
But I see your argument
Better QB rating and yards/per attempt this year. TDs are somewhat like interceptions and fumbles, high-leverage but not highly indicative of skill.
way more tds / yards if he hald help i think bradford has done what he can do for this team. Not perfect, but good enough you want ot see what he’s got.
Like with giving Chip another year, I could go either way but not really too hopeful.
Cowboys executive VP Stephen Jones said coach Jason Garrett is “safe.”
“Change isn’t always the right answer. We’re not big believers in it,” Jones said. “Jason, a year ago, everyone thought he hung the moon. That’s the terrible thing about this business: You take one year, and change everything. This doesn’t faze us, it won’t faze us.”
Stephen Jones is already more hated than his dad.
Why the hell would we have any interest in Grigson? He’s terrible??!?! I don’t get it at all.
Agreed. He’s a meddlesome fool.
He and Roseman are best buds.
If he comes in as the GM, are we looking at another RAJ situation?
He’s welcome to return here to help with scouting and supervising that group of guys, but he should be allowed nowhere near an actual decision making position. Who on earth makes panic short term signings on a team that has a QB who is going to take over the best QB in the league status as soon as Rodgers is retired?
Most passing yards by an Eagles QB in a single season was 3,916 by McNabb in 2008. That is 160th all time. He missed two games that year.
QBs that have had 4000 yards in a season:
John Kitna (twice)
Matt Cassell
Mat Schaub (3 times)
Josh Freeman
…?
McNabb started all 16 games in 2008. I think he missed a series or two due to injury against Pittsburgh, and of course, he was infamously benched for the second half against Baltimore.
You could also title that list “quarterbacks who played from behind a lot”.
I wouldn’t be upset with drafting anyone from either of these two D-lines
If Chip was trying to create Alabama here i’d be ok w/ that. Chip keeps really good company, WINNERS really respect him as a brain / coach — almost known by company you keep. Don’t want to cry over spilled milk but don’t think Lurie / Roseman were really thinking long term – more concerned if people would show up next year.
Saban runs a great college system but he wears those guys out so much that their bodies are shot by the time they reach the pros. In college you have a much bigger, younger roster with 25 or so new 19 year olds every year. It doesn’t necessarily translate directly to the NFL.
If there is anyone more in the know about personell guys around the league I’d love to hear your thoughts on Terry McDonough.
I don’t know much about him, but Arizona has been doing some damn good work since the fired that dolt Rod Graves and hired Steve Keim. Arizona is an organization that seems to have a strong setup between head coach / front office in terms of knowing their proper roles.
He seems like a strong name.
been thinking how Chip had the leaders/culture he needed when he got to the eagles. Jackson/McCoy/Maclin. 2 of the 3 were knuckleheads but were leaders by being supremely talented. Still remember my highschool team and the playmakers on our team, some were knuckleheads, but i still respect them just for their talent and what they brought to the team on game day. The playmakers dont need to be vocal, mature, leaders, but when on the field and the team is down by whatever, and look over and see Jackson waiting for a punt, the rest of the team feels some sort of confidence, they had on their team playing for them some playmakers any other team would want to have. This year player could look over and see Huff or Cooper and think “wow, lets go, we got this, this guy can sure block” or “Huff drinks smoothies like no one else, love his dedication to Kelly’s culture. We got this game.”
Lose playmakers, gamebreakers, leaders on gameday just from their talent, rest of the team loses direction, loses confidence.
Chip just need to make friends with Jackson, McCoy and Maclin. Have them meet with him in his office, make them his core, his players, treat them special and let them be knuckleheads outside of the game, they likely would have been a bit better locker room leaders if treated by Kelly as leaders to be respected.
No.
Dave Fipp is the same age as Sean McDermott. He has head coach and defensive coordinator experience. And those eyes… that is the penetrating stare of a champion. I say put him on the list.
And Dave Fipp is actually a good coach.
Roseman is really the 2016 version of Joe Benner, albeit on steroids.
We wish Howie brought us half the success the Banner regime brought us
Happy New Year.
14:00 mark of the presser confirms my suspicion. Chip asked for control and Lurie gave it and vowed to hold him accountable for the results of his decisions. The risk didn’t work, and Lurie decided it was time to move in a different direction.
How different will the leadership traits be in the search this time?
Will there be new ones, or just a reordering of the list compared with the last search?
What compromises will be made?
What’s Lurie going to consider the most important quality?
They must already have a candidate in mind. They can’t be stupid enough not to realize that they won’t be getting first choice of the prime candidates. It has to be someone willing to work in a “limited” role in order to prove himself.
Interesting theory, and I don’t disagree.
If so, do you have anyone in particular in mind?
No, and really there’s no way for an outsider to know the “right” choice for an organization. Though it’s certainly fun to have an opinion. 😉
I think the timing of it was due to the Eagles wanting to be first in line to set up an interview with McDermott during the Panthers bye week… Just a hunch,
Do the Eagles need permission from the Panthers to talk to him? If so, it might not be granted.
How does the timing put them first in line? Can they do formal interviews while a team is still in the playoffs?
A pretty good hunch. Any other bye week candidates? They should know McD pretty well already.
Yeah, there’s no real reason to think they needed time to plan or that Chip disrupts planning. My main concern is that Lurie may be morphing into a meddeling owner.
saying hi to everyone in the hallways seems to be number 1
It’s going to matter… but how much?
[…] Who is Running the Show? – Iggles BlitzThere is logic to Lurie’s thinking and this set-up. You won’t be making decisions based on one person’s whim. If a person can’t sell the other two on the wisdom of the move, it doesn’t get made. That should eliminate some bad picks/signings. Not all, to be sure, but some. The flip side is that there one potential flaw. While there is nothing wrong with a collaborative approach per se, you do need the right blend of personalities to make it work. Donahoe has worked for Roseman, but never been anything close to a peer with him. There is no telling how the new coach will fit in. He’ll say all the right things to get hired, but the real test is how things work when real situations come up. Can all three men really put their egos aside and work together? […]
[…] Who is Running the Show? – Iggles BlitzThere is logic to Lurie’s thinking and this set-up. You won’t be making decisions based on one person’s whim. If a person can’t sell the other two on the wisdom of the move, it doesn’t get made. That should eliminate some bad picks/signings. Not all, to be sure, but some. The flip side is that there one potential flaw. While there is nothing wrong with a collaborative approach per se, you do need the right blend of personalities to make it work. Donahoe has worked for Roseman, but never been anything close to a peer with him. There is no telling how the new coach will fit in. He’ll say all the right things to get hired, but the real test is how things work when real situations come up. Can all three men really put their egos aside and work together? […]
so Lurie says he didn’t offer Chip the choice to stay with a more limited GM role. Then what happened in that meeting that made Lurie decide right away to terminate him.
Chip walked into his office. Lurie’s mind was made up before Chip went in there.
Agreed
If Lurie had similar questions for Chip that the press corps did and Chip gave similarly d-baggish answers; that couldn’t have helped.
we’ll really never know what truely happened, but chips gone, do you think there’s a time frame for lurie to hire a coach, I mean like, you know, we need a coach prettty soon, draft aint far away,
Too weigh all options…need to wait til after SB unless they already have a target…
Nothing happened in the meeting. Lurie had already made his decision. The meeting was just to inform Kelly.
Highly doubt That is true, if NOTHNG happened, he would have at least łet Chip address the Team, instead LURIE had enough and wasn’t going to let chip coach his team for one more minute, and didn’t event give him the respect to speak to his team… That says a lot as far as I’m concerned
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If LURIE went into tuesday meeting certain that he would fire chip, why łet Chip coach the team for the entire Tuesday work day.
..
I don’t knowif LURIE offered to strip him of GM control or not… But the way It looks to me is lUrie went into that meeting feeling like he would probably Fire chip, and whatever happened in the meeting further pissed LUrie off, and lUrie Embarressed him, not letting him coach the last game, nor address the team, or even talk to Shurmur. Shurmur found out from LUrie not Chip.. LUrie came off as very pissed off at chip, instead of just making a business decision that we needed a change.. Seems like Legit animosity on Lurie’s part, but who knows…
I think by saying, “Lurie went into that meeting feeling like he would probably fire Chip” is pretty much saying “nothing happened” in that meeting. That’s saying there were no negotiations. How can there be after 1 meeting? If Lurie wanted to negotiate(like GM duties), or even believe in the CK’s direction, those meetings are held after the season. So – nothing did happen, except “your fired”. If Lurie was slightly on the fence about the CK’s approach, they would have talked it out. The purpose of the meeting, was to fire him.
…….
I do think(and agree) that something happened leading up to that meeting(Lurie was pissed off about something) Part of me think it was that 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 with DM on the sidelines. Like you said, how pissed was Lurie to fire him with 1 week to go. There’s absolutely nothing to gain by firing him this week.
“Guys who never been away from BB scares me” ….. Yet someone who’s been a total disaster away from BB is 3rd on your list. Smh.
…….
I’m not a fan of a three pronged approach. With full power…we’ll never know how CK would have adjusted/learned from his mistakes. If he gets hired by another nfl team we’ll find out. I’m not a fan of the firing…nor a fan of HR. Starting to not be a fan of Lurie as we’ll.
Remember … You all(mostly) wanted this… 3 more years of “it’s only year 1(2,3) of this new system”….. My prediction….HR fired by end of 2017.
I didn’t want this.
I hear where you’re going, but I can’t adopt as fatalistic of an approach with it.
In terms of Kelly; I’d love to know how much of this team’s lack of focus and desire to do their jobs properly, as evidenced by the perpetual dumb penalties and dumber turnovers and dumbest dropped passes, falls on Kelly not having the guys interested in paying attention to detail. Would that ever have improved?
In terms of Howie; I’ll reserve final judgement until I see what the structure looks like going into 2016 and how the off-season goes in full.
That’s my “black cloud” about CK. He prided himself on repetitions. Nobody had more reps in preseason than his team, yet they simply wouldn’t catch the ball. Bad talent or players unwillingness to play to play for him. Either way, I guess that all does fall on CK.
And what’s worse is that 2013 made me thing we’d moved past that garbage because 2011 and 2012 were the same things under Reid. This team has been extremely disappointing for 4 of the last 5 years.
No wide receiver wants to drop the ball. Some will make “business decisions”, but no WR ever lets a ball hit his hands and drops it on purpose.
So I did a mock draft with looking at a lot of ambiguous factors going into 2016. My thought was to trade down in a spot to get Wentz if Goff didn’t fall to the Eagles (at 12 as of now) and pick up some extra picks in the process. Trading down 3 times isn’t likely, but with Howie back in the mix I expect the Eagles being able to drop back to the exact spot they’ll need to to get the guy they’ve got targeted.
Round 2 Pick 2 (CLE): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 17 (OAK): Jordan Jenkins, OLB, Georgia (A-)
Round 2 Pick 22 (HOU): Landon Turner, OG, North Carolina (A)
Round 3 Pick 2 (CLE): Nick Martin, C, Notre Dame (A+)
Round 3 Pick 12: Jayron Kearse, SS, Clemson (A+)
Round 3 Pick 13: Austin Johnson, DT, Penn State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 12: Kamalei Correa, OLB, Boise State (B+)
Round 5 Pick 12: Le’Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech (A)
Round 5 Pick 21: Harlan Miller, CB, Southeastern Louisiana (A-)
Round 6 Pick 12: Nelson Spruce, WR, Colorado (B+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Donnel Pumphrey, RB, San Diego State (A+)
Round 7 Pick 31: Mekale McKay, WR, Cincinnati (A+)
For some context on the picks.
I want Bradford back on a three year deal. So I wanted a QB prospect to put in behind Bradford who could be ready to jump in and start at some point in 2017 or 2018 while we could move Bradford via trade or cut him.
All of the extra 2nd / 3rd rounders aren’t all likely to be had via trade down, so I’ll assume we’d really not be getting all of Jenkins, Turner, Martin, Kearse, and Johnson.
In rounds 4 through 7 I looked at getting as much talent as I could given some guys won’t be here next year. Marcus Smith, Riley Cooper, Josh Huff, Kenyon Barner, and Nolan Carroll could all be gone and those position groups will need depth.
You know what’s sad? People think that Chip is the next Belichick. Not only is the probability extremely low, Chip’s track record suggests that he’s not even that good in the first place.
You remembering Belichicks tenure at Cleveland? What were people saying about him then?
He also lucked out on Brady.
My assumptions is, Lurie is a smart guy. I don’t understand how interviewing players help. Did he interview DJ prior to being cut? Did he interview Shady prior to being traded? So he talked to players before and after firing CK. Not all of those players he talked to will return next season. So questions like “what did you think about CK” and “what kind of coach do you like” etc etc really mean nothing. Can you hire/fire a coach based on feedback from players? I don’t believe in that kind of business philosophy where players careers are short.
When your the decider, and you see a repetitive display of ugly under-achievement, you talk to everybody, including the players. Lurie isn’t new to the job, and it’s ridiculous to think his decision was based on interviewing the players. He saw what we all saw, and it did not mesh with the vision being espoused by the HC. Transitioning from mediocre to good is a process that will not be characterized by the flipping of a switch. Lurie used the word “trajectory” several times. He expects to see tangible evidence that the practical is getting closer to the vision.
I’m not saying it’s the only deciding factor. My question is, what’s the point? The players careers are something like 3-5 years and to throw on top of that, some of the players he talked to won’t even be here in 2016. What can one deduce from a player that won’t even be here? Ask 10 players the same question, you’ll get 10 different answers. How can a trajectory be given by players who won’t be here? I’d imaging the coach/GM should provide the trajectory of the team, not players opinions….
I agree to a certain extent. I do think Jeff Lurie is very self-aware and takes into account the outside perception of the team.
It is possible that he was worried that Chip’s negative reputation could scare away more talented players (Shady, DJax, JMac) and thus hurt the Eagles chances of trading/signing big name players in the future. Just a thought.
Ultimately, I don’t think we’ll ever know the complete story. I do think that Chip’ leash was much, much shorter due to the fact that he was a polarizing figure. Had he been a more effective communicator with the front office and players, who knows, maybe he’s back here next year.
I will say this to add on to your point. The two high school teachers who prepared me the most for college and beyond were also very much disliked by a lot of students. Why? Because they were strict and not ‘student-centered.’ They did, however, demand our absolute best and held us accountable for our work. My high school football coach had a reputation for being a dictator. Now, he was a great motivator, but a lot of players hated his military style approach. But guess what? He was a phenomenal coach who absolutely maximized our talent.
I think Chip definitely maximized the team’s talent in 2013 and to a lesser degree in 2014. 2015 has been a complete debacle and that’s all on Chip. I still maintain that had he been a more effective communicator and more gracious in accepting accountability for his missteps he would be back for another year.
What are our biggest regrets of the Chip era? Mine drives me crazy, the fact that we saw Desean have a Monster year under chip, and then Maclin had a monster year, but Chip NEVER let us see what it would have looked like with both those two WRs on the field… Would have been interesting
That would have been epic.
I agree – wish we had kept DeSean/Maclin and drafted more OL with our early picks and seen how Foles would have done this year with a better OL and those weapons out wide.
I think in retrospect we saw peak Foles with DeSean drawing all kinds of attention, Shady rocking great games, and the O-line being the best it ever was in 2013. I don’t know if Foles, although it pains me to have been wrong in thinking he was “the guy” after 2013, is ever going to be capable of doing anything even close to what he accomplished in 2013.
Foles and most other QBs will never replicate the magical season he had in 2013. No shame in that. It was the perfect storm of events for him that year. I’m a big fan of Foles the guy, but never trusted him as a player. I loved his poise in the pocket and leadership abilities, just not his talent.
Foles cannot deal with pressure up the middle – needs strong Guard and Centre play to keep him clean and feel comfortable. Part of his issue has been people have worked that out and blitzed up the middle – but also due to having played behind a pair of really bad interior lines the last 2 years.
Give him weapons and a line and Foles proved he could win games and handle pressure.
That and seeing what he could do with his prototype QB (Mariota or someone similar like a Russell WIlson).
Hiring him in the first place.
Chip seemed to go into the off season with holes on the roster and then create more holes by his own admission.
My biggest regret is giving him full control, letting him go nuts, then bailing out after 1 mediocre season.
Different level of “new regime” discussion.
Who is at risk of not being on this roster?
Salary people (cut outright and/or reduce big time): Cooper, Celek, Ryans, Peters.
New direction / Chip ain’t here anymore people: Marcus Smith, Huff, Barner, Barner, Barner, Barner.
If they get beat out by somebody young and/or we draft: Kelce, Sproles.
I didn’t include some of the fringe O-line and LB deep depth type dudes.
Bring back Mostert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+5 points to team Insomniac
Why would we dump Huff already? It frustrates me too that he hasn’t lived up to his hype, but I do think he’s good enough to be on this roster – especially still under his rookie contract.
That’s a great question. He has a propensity to often do some really stupid things on the football field and the new regime doesn’t have to hide behind the fact that he played for them in college and was picked ahead of John Brown.
So I think the fact that nobody who will be here is married to an underachieving 3rd rounder leaves him as a potential subtraction from the roster.
But I hope I’m wrong – I like his potential, but he needs to stop the on-field stupidity.
But we have literally no one behind Jordan Matthews and Ags (who the jury is still out on). The WR position definitely has to get better, but I see no reason why we should cut ties with him already. At worst he can be a #4 or #5 and contribute on special teams. And he’s on his rookie contract so it’s not like we are vastly overpaying him like Coop or Miles Austin.
I don’t think he’ll ever be a superstar or even a legit starting WR, but I do think he can be a valuable asset/contributor.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but they could build a WR group around Matthews, Agholor, draft pick, Tutu, vet signing, different younger guy IF they don’t like what they get out of Huff in this off-season / pre-season.
Golden Tate. I think he could easily follow a similar career path.
I mean at the current roster depth he is actually the 3rd best receiver.
After having shown big play ability on special teams and offense, I think any coach would be intrigued.
Like you said they will not be tied to him. So if he is here you can bet they really like him. I think he will be.
Agree with most of it.
I think all this talk of the way Chip practiced breaking players down has probably bought Peters another year. I think the damage has probably been done though.
I would be really surprised to see Huff not get a fair shake at the roster. At the very least he is a big play threat on kick-offs that doesn’t cost much.
Guys that probably won’t fit new scheme and will get dropped are: Bair, Allen, Gardner (?), Tobin(?), Kelly(?), Sanchez(wishful thinking), Sproles?
Speaking of kick-offs, what about keeping Dave Fipp? Would you?
Fipp should be given a “bonus” right now to not interview for any other jobs and immediately given a raise if we can talk the new HC into keeping him.
And Sanchez could easily be gone if we draft a QB early who proves he’s good enough to be Bradford’s backup.
If Chip goes to another NFL team, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Fipp follow him. He’s gotta really love how Chip valued Special Teams players.
Really tough discussion to have at this point. Think that a coaching change will mean changes in the status of how we proceed with certain players, for example Brent Celek… Under chip, we would have probably seen a similar situation to what Chip did last season with Mufasa, bring Back Celek at a much more reasonable deal for what we get from CElek at this stage of his career.
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Now Celeks status becomes a Giant unknown, we do know he won’t be making 5mil next year like his contract says. Fans probably want to take a break from the word CULTURE but good chance the next coach will also care about culture, maybe not to chips extreme…celek started off this yeàr really bad. It looked as if father time had caught up. He was even struggling with his blocking..but he got over the slump, started blocking well again, and makeing plays in the passing game as well. So it’s not like he can’t play anymore like when we cut Avant. As a High Charechter, respected senior member of this locker room, the next coach could value Celeks leadership to deal with the transition to a new coach.. But it’s also possible that the next coach wants to go young, let’s go of Brent and next year see Brent joining travis Kelce in KC, or with a coach that is getting a lot out of veterans like Bruce Arians…. Coaching change, different schemes, could signifcantly change the future of some good and respected playërs…
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If we thought this pffseason would be crazy under unpredictable chip, now everything is up in the air..
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Good News: I assume the next coach won’t think that Riley Coopers blocking is worth like 6 million lol
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Mufasa, Celek, Sproles and JP are really the 4 veteran players who’s candidates will have different opinions of..
.,
Curious to see what the vision will be for our new OL? Will we continue zone blocking, with smaller, athletic Lineman, or will we feel that a change to Power football is better suited for Murray and Mathews? Need this question answered to have an idea of how to judge all our Guards… If we keep a similar style OL, I would assume that Gardner is more capable starter and Barbre and Tobin can be decent backups with some experience … Will we keep all 3 Guards? Will we get rid of all 3 Guards? is JP gone? Will he play Tackle one more year? Will he move to Guard(my preference)… I think that the Power Peters would bring to the interior OL if we move him to Guard is exactly what Murray and Mathews need to see the Power run game we hoped to have
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There were a ton of questions even if we decided to proceed with Chip in the name of continuity,.. Now that Chip is gone, everything is on the table..
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This was a Terrible season, glad when it’s over, but this certainly won’t be a boring offseason,,,
Once the cap is set for next year, the Eagles carry over any money from this year, and they cut / reduce a few guys; they’re going to have around $35 mil to play with.
What do y’all want to do with it?
overthecap.com has us at $16.5 for 2016. They’d have to cut almost $20 million in salaries. Adding in for Bradford (assuming he’s kept), it appears Chip did us no favors.
I’m looking at $3 million carry over from this year.
Only $132 on the books for a $155 cap for next year.
So that gets us to $26 mil under. Then add in appx $10 mil of reductions / cuts.
Over the cap hasn’t applied the carryover and is underestimating next year’s cap.
Joel Corry is saying to expect $155 mil.
Still, some possible cuts…Kelce, Peters, Cooper, Sanchez, Ryans, and Marcus Smith carry significant dead money if cut.
WTF happened to Kelce? Do you cut him after one down year? I don’t think so, but I think you bring in competition.
He wasn’t good in 2014 either, mostly due to injuries. It was frightening how often he was put on his ass or knocked backwards off the snap. He is athletic, but undersized.
Lets figure out what the new coaching staff’s philosophy is and then see where our roster stands in their eyes.
Any good corner’s on the market? Journeymen QB you could give a 3 year middle of the road deal to? O LINE???
Any staff’s philosophy should be to not suck on o-line.
But I don’t think any big money guys this year would be prudent.
I dunno, a guard I wanted last season, Mike Iupati got 5 years 40 mill. I don’t feel like that money is too crazy.
I know a bunch of people think we lack talent all over. I really think if the O-line would of been consistently good this entire team was the Superbowl Contender we thought they were in the pre-season.
Extend Cox, sign Bradford to a short-term, pay as you go deal, sign some low-cost FAs and save the rest for the future. Build through the draft
Good call on Cox. Not sure that is an option on Bradford.
Yeah, I know, but it’s what I want, not what I realistically expect.
Somewhere someone made a comment that they wouldn’t expect Pagano to be a candidate here due to Grigison’s former ties to the organization.
IMO When Grigson gets cut, I really hope that they don’t sniff around him at all. I’m not real sure Pags as the HC would be terrific, but would LOVE if the next coach got him to run the defense. I would be immediately excited and happy about this team again.
Agreed on keeping Grigson far away from any decision making role here. If he’s hard up for a job, maybe he can coordinate scouts or something like that.
Pagano presents an interesting case. Does he go to a DC job somewhere? Do he jump right back into a head coach opening? Does he chill it out for a year and wait for the right job to open up?
Its not like he is some long time HC. I think there is a shot that he would be willing to DC in the right position. Though I think it is also almost just a likely some team will think he didn’t deserve to get fired (if Chip was iffy, getting rid of him is down-right stupid), and snatch him as their HC.
Unfortunately I wouldn’t be shocked if they make a home for him in Baltimore.
So what would YOUR feelings be if Gase/Hue brought Pagano here, would that be a good scenario to you
Two items that = ajada. 1) When Kelly gave his very first pc as an Eagle, he asserted that he was there to coach. He clearly stated that he had no designs on GM or FO titles. 2) Jay Glazer interviewed Chip two days ago and Chip had this to say: ” I don’t want to go somewhere and be the GM…I just want to coach somewhere, somewhere where there’s a GM and a personnel guy and I can just coach again.”
This lends itself to a suspicious view of the Lurie FO. Assuming Chip is neither a fraud nor a pathological liar, how did we get from his hire to his demand for control, to his ouster? I always thought that the over-promotion of Andy Reid did him and the franchise no favors, and this feels like deja vu. Could it have been that Kelly was prepared to adapt to a strong, functional FO where professionals resided and where a savvy coach could have his many needs met, but dysfunction ruled the day? Did Chip orchestrate his power play, as many contend, as an ego-inflation exercise, or was it more correctly a necessary tantrum to allow him to function as a coach?
Somewhere, I think, there is a franchise with a strong FO that Kelly will take to. I hope Jeff Lurie pays attention. The man that he hired in 1999 as HC, left in 2012 as Director of Operations, functioning personnel czar, and effective roster degrader. Now his role is HC and he listens to and heeds a GM with a track record of success. Good for Andy and good for the Chiefs. When I think back on Philadelphia’s good fortune in having an NFL franchise with an owner capable of hiring a top rate coach, first in 1999 and again in 2012, and then I see the sad conclusions to their respective careers here, it does not bode well for the next one up. It suggests to me that a hungry-to-win owner who knows what he wants in a HC, has serious reservations about investing power in strong executive personalities who are prone to clash and scratch and claw. It is the real world. All of Lurie’s calls for “collaboration” sound pretty, but recent history suggests that his vague franchise model is precisely at odds with a strong FO. Collaboration my ass.
I think the answer there is that Chip is a fraud. If it was only personnel that was the issue, then you say that Chip’s mind changed because he lacked faith in Roseman. However there were other things that he said initially where his actions indicated the exact opposite. Specifically he said that he would adjust his schemes to fit his players. Obviously, the opposite proved to be the case.
I wouldn’t call him a “fraud’, but he was full of some bull. He didn’t fit his offense to his players (that he picked). He continually tried to say he didn’t have the power that he had. Why take the power and then try to deny culpability.
I wanted to give Chip another year too, so its not like I have some irrational biased opinion.
Good point. If you are right, do you think that precludes Kelly from zipping his lip, fashioning an offensive scheme that fits his players, and abiding by a Front Office that speaks for the owner? That is what I expect to happen, but we shall see.
Kelly may change his ways but would he have if he wasn’t fired? Getting canned may be the catalyst. Just because he might eventually succeed elsewhere doesn’t necessarily mean he would have succeeded here.
Very strong opinion, I like that. However, I disagree on a few different points.
I think it is pretty clear that Chip won a power struggle this summer and forced the previous GM out of the building because he wanted to have the uncontested final say. Unfortunately for him he did a poor job of hiring a fill in (that was just going to be a yes man anyway). He now realizes that college and NFL personnel duties are about as different as college life and real life. He probably has had a bit of a reality check and realized he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is, and needs to have a good GM to be successful.
Unfortunately for us Chip could of had the eureka moment while on the team, but Lurie had seen enough.
You say that Lurie’s claims for wanting a nice balance of power are bogus due to Andy and Chip having full control. I think you will notice that Chip wanted to go away from that when he had Howie in control of the front office and brought Chip in. It just turned out Chip forced his hand into allowing full control.
I don’t say bogus. I think the man is understandably hesitant to turn over his baby to people who aren’t family. He’s not afraid to go out on a limb when hiring an HC, but the environment that awaits that guy seems WEAK by virtue of a FO that is to this day undefined. Roseman has been the ONLY evidence of continuity in that FO since Banner left. And Roseman’s authority is not particularly well defined. Lurie’s expressed preference for collaboration would make sense if a strong FO was exchanging elbows with a feisty HC, but did HR represent a strong FO? By strong I mean possessing gravitas, recognized by peers, experienced, confident, with a slew of characters populating the department. My thinking is that Kelly was shocked to see a vapid shell of an NFL FO, and opted to draw a line then and there. This is why I seriously hope that Lurie monitors Chip’s future NFL positions. If he’s been watching KC, he might be getting a clue.
None of these theories or narratives can really ever be more than speculation. One thing clear, though–when you play in the mud, you are going to get dirty. I think the palace intrigue makes Kelly, Roseman, and Lurie all look bad. No idea to know who really was the good guy or bad guy.
That sort of hits on a bigger point.
Kelly very well could of been great from here on out. Howie could of functioned as GM with him as head coach, just fine.
At the end of the day we as fans suffer because that group couldn’t get along. Not because any of them were incompetent or bad at their jobs. Most unfortunate. Almost like a great band that breaks up or changes lead singers because of their petty problems.
You nailed that. And I agree, I believe the toxicity in the FO led Chip to a place he hadn’t planned on going. And it got him fired in the end.
This will be our owners 4th coaching search, and he landed a Gem in andy Reid in the past so he does have some experience in this area. Howie has been in charge of one coaching search so far.
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the Posiive: He was able to land us our #1 choice
the Negative: It Turns out that we didn’t even interview the best two coaches, Arians and Bowles. 3 years later we now hearing about the importance of finding someone who understands this unique city. So not only did we not interview the best two coaches, they were both guys who we were familiar with, and who both have plenty of experience understanding this city
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I really don’t Hate Howie, and I do think he has shown serious growth over the yearsm as someone who worked to grow into a “football guy”, I don’t view this as being doomed because Howie is in charge, but while Howie isnt a bad choice, truth is he didn’t do such a Great Job to the point that we should run right back to Howie without even looking around to see if there is a Better option. if LUrie interviewed 4 experienced GMs, and then came to the conclusion that Howie is the best man to lead us into this next era, I would be completely on Board… This hasn’t just been a bad yeàr, there have been issues with this franchise dating back to before chip. We need to improved in many areas, not just the coach. LUrie going out of Charechter to make this coaching change faster than any move he has made in the past gave us hope that LUrie was fed up, was Going to clean house, bring in fresh opinions and make changes across the Board, but it’s disapointimg that we aren’t even attempting to see if we can find a better option, and are just automatically settling for someone who hasn’t been GREAT to begin with. That is disapointing. I also worry about the rumors of his reputation keeping us from being able to land certain candidates. Hopefully this is exaggerated and we are able to hire whoever we think is the best choice… In fairness to Howie, chip turned out to not be the right guy, but Howie was able to go out and get us our top choice and he deserves credit for that..
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I’m also really tired of the bullshit, the lies, the semantics games, Monday I watched this city becone Infuriated when Chip told them he wasn’t the GM, then two days later, our Owner is lying to us pretending that Howie isn’t the GM. I mean come on, if Howie is who you believe in, fucking own it, instead of trying to bullshit us and give Howie some other bulshit title… If you don’t have a General Manager, then Howie is the GM, This Collaborating on decisions is bullshit lie. Every one always collaborates on every decision, Chip didn’t make decisions on his own, from a secluded room, plenty of people collaborated and weighed in with their opinion, and when opinions werent unanimous, chip would have to ultimately make the decision, every GM COLLABORATES on Decisions.. It’s a collaboration when everyone agrees and its unanimous. When there are various opinions and someone has to break the Tie, it will be Howie’s responsibility. Well that isucks exactky how every other GM works. They all take in the opinions of coaches and scouts, and make a decision they think is best… We been thru a lot as a fanbase, we deserve better than our owner bullshittng us with silly semantics after 3 years of chip having to disagree with every single question ever asked to him by the media using semantics.. Very dissapointing How LURIE is handling the Front Office side of this mess.
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Again, interview 3 qualified candidates, and if Howie is still who you believe in, no problem. Especially since it seemed Howie was learning, and his GM trajectory was pointing upwards. Truth is, Howie has strengths that we could really use right now. For example, our Cap ISNT a mess, but it isn’t a great cap situation like it was under Howie and Banner before him. At a time we probabky have to pay Big money to our QB, Howie can really help out fixing some of the bad contracts, restructuring, trading or waiving some bad contracts, For starters, COOPER, and clean up our Cap
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I also assume Howie learned that you can’t fix more than a problem or two in Free agency, you HAVE to build thru the draft, It’s the ONLY way. Howie has had some bad drafts, but The last two drafts he was clearly in charge of, he delivered Cox, and Lane, which was very important, a lot of teams blow top 15 picks instead of landing Franchise Cornerstones. So Howie needs to be respected for his two most recent drafts:
2012: Cox, Curry, Kendricks, FOles, Boykin, basically hitting on every pick in the first 4 rounds
2013: Lane, ERTZ, Bennie… 3 quality starts out of the first 3 rounds is an A-level draft..
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We don’t exactly know who was responsible for what in 2014
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What this team DESPERATELY NEEDs:
1) Trim the cap fat, sigń key players to responsible extensions like Bradford and Cox. Not bad to have a contract Guru at a time we will need to write some HUGE checks
2) leave free agency alone, and have another A level draft or two. Howie Manuevering can also help get that 2nd round pick back or something close to it..
3) another under rated skill of Howie is his trades.. This may be an important time for trades becayse depending on the coaches we hire, they may bring schemes that don’t fit a few of our good players, so hopefully Howie can get us some decent value in return if we have to lose a solid player or two because he no longer fits..
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Howie has experience, he has had some big failures, and some Big success. After the front office issues of the past, hopefully Howie has learned how to better play with others, and eliminate some of the front office drama of the past, after all, Howie has Won, he doesn’t need to prove anything else, and he has all the power he could want. LURIE may play games with his title but Facts are:
1) next Eagles coach won’t have GM Power
2) LURIE ISNT going to hire a GM, he may hire VP or whatever, but we aren’t going to have a GM, which essentially means that when we Need a GM type decision to be made, it most likely will be made by Howie, unless LURIE is ready to become Jerry Jones, which I doubt… There will be times when our key decision makers DONT agree and someone has to break the tie and make the decision, looks like that will be Howie, and THATS what a GM does..
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Hopefully all of Howie’s past failures, and past success helps Howie Grow and his best GM days are ahead…. If not, we will be back having this convo again in 3 or 4 years, at which point we will be dangerously close to reaching Browns level mess…
We asked to interview Arians and then rescinded our request. What’s weird is we weren’t the only team to do that. I don’t remember the teams but the article read said that the Eagles and 2 other teams initially asked to interviews Arians and then canceled the interviews. This was while they still didn’t have a HC. If it was just us, then yeah maybe we’re stupid. It sounds like the background check on Arians came up with some black mark that the Cardinals were willing to overlook but the other teams weren’t.
Whatever the case, it turned out to be a mistake.. Arians is a guy we can’t stand as Cardinals coach, but someone we probably would love as our coach. Oh well, nothing to do but hope that we learned from each mistake.
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You Know which FANBASE really got Screwed? Lol the Colts… They had Bruce Aians, who did a great job for them. They really had no choice but to bring back Pagano after he beat Cancer, so they had to let Arians walk, and then they spent this year watching Arians lead a Force of a Cardinals team, while Paganos mess started to spiral out of control, with that Epic botched play, that I still don’t know WTF he was trying to do lol….
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Cousins Kneeling on the ball last week, instead of spiking it is the only thing dumb enough to save Paganos fake punt or whatever it was from being the dumbest play of the season… Although one could argue that Chip Kelly Linning up in the same 3 formations, every single week, for 3 straight seasons could be considered pretty dumb in its own right
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Pagano will get Fired Monday, and Colts fans may have to watch Bruce Arians take the Cardinals to the SUPERBOWL.. That has to suck…
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What REALLY SUCKS for us is that there could be teams like Colts, and Giants who have QB’s in place that would allow them to attract coaches that we want…. We have to Hope that our Top Choice is either extremely excited about coaching Bradford, or very excited about coaching Paxton Lynch.
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Personally, I will be sick to my stomach if we lose SAM… Out of so many failed roster moves by chip, Bradford was the most expensive, but also the move that worked out the best, along with Thurmond… I will be sick to my stomach draft night if I have to watch us give up a top 15 second round pick, and not have Bradford on our roster. Fortunately LURIE claims our past Eagles regime also had Bradford rated highly.. Hopefully Howie takes advantage of the one great thing Chip did, potentially having the balls to go get an injured Bradford who could be our franchise guy moving forward
It strikes me that looking at Howie as the linchpin is looking in the wrong direction. The owner appears to have problems giving power in the FO to anyone. “Collaboration” is code for we all decide together, which is farcical, and really means “I decide”. This is the model that has left two impressive hires looking elsewhere to ply their trades. We all know what interfering owners do, they make lavish purchases, look for the FA with the biggest price tag, tell their subordinates how to do their jobs, etc. Well Jeff Lurie seems to be redefining the profile. You don’t need to interfere when you haven’t conferred any real power. Lurie needs to be a bold, risk-taker, NOT simply with the HC hire. He needs to summon the determination to get proven NFL execs who will make noise and piss people off, but who are herded by a loyal son-of-a-bitch. I think Howie fits the bill as an equal opportunity consigliere, but this is all necessary for whatever HC is brought in. Lurie has to demand PROVEN NFL execs are brought in and tasked with making collegial contributions to the ascendance of the franchise. Then a good HC hire will not be left to his own devices to capture the flag…which is really what has been going on for the past 16 years.
I posted this on twitter and will add it here.
With Roseman back in charge, I’d focus on HC candidates that are repped by Bob Lamonte, Roseman’s agent. Not as in that is who I’d hire as those are guys that LaMonte will push Roseman towards and LaMonte could potentially vouch for Howie to coaches that are reluctant to work for Roseman due to the negative rumors about him(“Howie’s a nice guy! I swear! Plus, even if he isn’t, they’re offering $6M a year and I need the commission to by a new Ferrari.”)
These are LaMonte clients that could be possibilities, either as HC or the coordinator positions if a LaMonte client is hired as HC:
Jon Gruden, ESPN analyst
Pat Shurmur, Eagles interim-HC
Vic Fangio, Bears’ DC
Edgar Bennett, Packers’ OC
Mike McCoy, current Chargers’ HC
Leslie Frazier, Bucs’ DC
Paul Guenther, Bengals’ DC
Ben McAdoo, Giants’ OC
Sean McDermott, Panthers’ DC
Sean McVay, Redskins’ OC
Greg Olson, Jaguars’ OC
Doug Pederson, Chiefs’ OC
Frank Reich, Chargers’ OC
Kyle Shanahan, Falcons’ OC
Steve Spagnuolo, Giants’ DC
Bill Callahan, Redskins’ OL coach
Brad Childress, Chiefs’ spread game analyst/special projects
Ed Donatell, Bears’ DBs
Mike Nolan, Chargers’ LBs
Alex Van Pelt, Packers’ QB/WRs
good work!
Of interest to me on that list: Gruden, Shurmur, Fangio, Guenther, Reich.
Of NO interest to me on that list: Idiot McDermott
Everybody else: Neutral.
That list is pretty meh.
Damn. Chilly went from head coach to video guy!?
Brad Childress, Chiefs’ spread game analyst/special projects
This is some nice work. With all the hype surrounding McDermott and Philly connections, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pederson get a call for an interview. Maybe Lurie misses Reid and raids his staff.
Why are the cousins of these guys sponsoring a bowl game?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Battletoads_Coverart.png
This game was fantastic! Holy flashback!
Ohio State is pissing me off by not lining up Bosa over Ronnie Stanley. I need to draw some conclusions about how good each guy is.
I hear ya, but honestly they have no point in moving him right now as he is completely dominating the entire right side of ND’s o-line
Well that’s now moot!
And watching him dominate non-NFL caliber players still isn’t helping me.
[…] wrote yesterday about Jeff Lurie’s new model for the front office, with Howie Roseman, Tom Donahoe and the new coach all sharing power. Now it turns out there could […]
Wow Joey Bosa ejected. This game could swing momentum in ND’s favor as Bosa was dominating.
The more I think about it the more I become interested in trying to keep Shurmur on as the OC. Chip gets villainized on the way out, and while we saw big red flags in some of his approach, there is a lot of good he brought to our team, and Shurmur was closely exposed to it all… I like Shurmurs unique poïnt of view of having the traditional pro background before Chip got here, then he had 3 years exposed to all of chips unique methods, he got to see how some of his methods had success for 3 years, and what methods hurt us. chip was said to be fantastic at halftime adjustments, hopefully Shurmur learned a thing or two after having a front row seat for 3 years of the chip show.. I like that Shurmur has learned so much of chips methods, without being so invested that he cares about proving they will work at all costs which seemed to be the case with Chip, specifically the refusal to acknowledge time of posession matters in the pros…
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I also feel very strongly about wanting Bradford back, and Shurmur has a unique info having seem SAM in Chips system, and seen SAM in a pro system back in St Louis, he knows what he is good at, what he isn’t best suited for, and if we hire a defensive HEADCoach, Id be very interested to see what Shurmur could design for Bradford meshing what he did well in St Louis, with the chip kelly principles that worked well.. He can continue to give us some of the good that chip brought to Philly, without being so stubbornly married to it and not being willing to adjust
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Kind of makes this Giant game a little interesting,,, is it going,to look like the same exact chip show we saw every week, or will we see some Bradford under center? Could we see us line up in Heavy Max Protect, and Run Demarco Murray with Trey Burton as his lead blocker? Curious to get a glimpse of what Shurmur liked about Chips methods, and what Changes he wanted to make, but chip ego didn’t allow Shurmur to make the changes, because he Needed to not only win, but prove he could win a different way?
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On one hand, Id like to see what fresh pro offensive minds like Adam Gase, Mike Shula would do if Tasked with designing an offense around SAM… But on the other hand, I see a lot of value in keepimg Shurmur and SAM together and charge Shurmur with designing a best of both worlds offense around SAM, taking the good from both offenses that SAM did well, and eliminate some of the blatant mistakes that chip stubbornly refused to change.
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Curious to see Sundays game, And what we can learn from it in terms of what Shurmur and Bradford liked about Chip, and what did they want to change that maybe Chip didn’t allow them to change.,.
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I’m also Curious to see what Changes we see in the defense, now that Billy is no longer confined to what Chip wanted on defense, and now Billy can simply use his decades of NFL experiemce to run whatever the hell he thinks gives this group of players the best chance to win, even if it’s not playing press man, single high safety 3-4 chip insisted on… Just curious to get a hint of what our coordinatirs with pro experiemce didn’t agree with Chip on. What they would have done different had chips ego allowed it? Unfortunately it’s only 1 week..,looking back, there would have been real informative evaluation value in firing chip after the Detroit game, so we could spend the last 4 games seeing what the,coordinatirs would have done different, how they would have changed the way we used players, even getting a chance to evaluate young players .. From the sounds of how bad everything got at Novacare, firing chip after Detroit may have been a spark we could have ridden to the playoffs, and if we continued to lose, LURIE could demand that they play the young players the rest of the way
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Shurmur is very different then Chip, he only cares about trying to win, he cares about doing what Bradford is comfortable with to give us the best chance of winning. He doesn’t care about proving that he has a new way of playing pro football that he can win with… I assume Bradford would have more of a voice with Shurmer in Charge than with chip… For example, SAM probabky didn’t feel like he could stand up to chip and ask why he can’t audible? Why we have to line up in the same 3 formations each week instead of trying to catch opponents off guard. SAM probably couldn’t stand up to chip and say, slow it down, time Of possession is murdering what started as a very promising defense this year. SAM probably couldnt say, that he is comfortable huddling at times, or lining up under center,, with Shurmur, we have a guy that doesn’t care about proving anything other than that he deserves to continue being an OC in this league and maybe earn another HC opportunity at some point, and he knows that ONLY happens if he wins, and he damn sure doesn’t have the clout to worry about reinventing the wheel
I wouldn’t be opposed to him staying around, for that very reason that he’s seen Bradford in differing schemes. He could tailor his scheme for Bradford.
Even if we got an O-coordinator here and he stayed on, he has a lot he can put on the table.
BTW – Jackson made Dalton look good, and Gase made Cutler look good. That alone puts them on the short list. On the other hand Fangio seems like a good risk as DC-to-head coach. Plus, he lets Shurmur own the offense and we could see what he comes up with.
Yes sir….. Since LURIE is staying In HOUSE and rolling with Howie, hopefully that continues and they decide to Keep both Shurm and SAM in Philly. Id be more excited to see what Howie can do if he has a QB and a coach who knows him well to build everything around
If Bradford went to Lurie and said he really wanted to work with Shurmur, would totally come back to the eagles for the market rate (whatever that is – 18 million), then sure. Likely Bradford is gone because most of the other candidates are unproven and as far as i know have no relationship with Bradford.
Shurmur + Bradford makes me think the offense could actually build on the junk they did this year, instead of even being worse next year with Sanchez or some rookie QB or RG3.
Maybe would come down a lot to player’s opinion, since Lurie is all about the players in this HC search. If the players seem for the most endorse Shurmur as the new HC, then i would be fine with that.
this season i started to really want a QB that would be the coach on the field type of guy, the audible making, pick apart a defense mentally with the coach’s help kind of player. Not so much a runner, or a huge arm etc.. but the QB that after years of knowing a system and a coach, becomes invaluable. Bradford seems to have the physical talent enough for this, if given the years to work with a single coach in a single system designed to fit him. Ideally that is what we get in the next few years. And got to think if this is what i am wanting, then Shurmur works with Bradford well it seems, known him for years, not fixated on his system, will work with the QB to make the best fit. Just not sure Shurmur has the whole HC package – big picture, managing all three phases, motivator etc.. But I am in no position to argue that any of the other HC candidates, except for Payton if he becomes one, has HC qualities more than Shurmur.
Shurmur would just be so uninteresting, but might prove solid.
new thread up
On one hand, I would like to see what would Shurmur do different with Bradford, on the other hand, it’s beneficial To us to not win this game, and there are young players like BUNCHE and Marcus Smith that I keep hearing good rumors about that I would like to see play, but you can’t pull starting Lineman and have Bradford play behind inexperienced Backups like BUNCHE,
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SAM, Lane, KELCE, JP, Jordan, Nelson, ERTZ, Cox, Jenkins, ROWE suffering significant injuries the last week in the season would be tragic. You can’t play SAM, if you sit starting Lineman.. You suffer a significant injury this late in the season and you end up missing ALL of next season, why would we risk that on a game where it’s more beneficial to Lose?
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All signs point to Bradford and the starters playing. And it’s interesting to see what changes Shurmur would make, but with the starters, we are Going to beat the Giants and prove that it was Chip, not the players.. Heck, respect time of possession alone is probably enough to see big improvement and beat the Giants.. While its fun to see if Shurmur sticks it to Chip and Lines up with two TEs and Trey Burton lead blocking for Murray, I would so much rather lose and end up with a top 12 pick, while making sure we get key players like SAM, Lane, KELCE, Cox to the pffseason healthy while getting a glimpse,of Denzel Rice, BUNCHE, Barner, Barret Jones,MS2, the LB kid Means or Whatevet his name is. MORE VINNY CURRY not knowing if it’s his last game as an Eagle. Hopefully LURIE has Shurmur pull the key starters at halftime or something
Pretty good post by Tommy… Balanced, thoughtful, reasonable.
I like the idea of a solid coach and personnel guy working together. What isn’t said here, but should be pointed out, is that in Lurie’s vision, it’s not 2 guys working together effectively but 3 – that could be a tall order.
Another angle that isn’t explored is what role does Lurie play? With 3 guys in the mix, he has to be involved and – at times – will have to make the final call. He’s very much the CEO in addition to being owner – a fact that seems to be lost on a lot of fans.