Eagles Draft Talk
Posted: April 18th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 352 Comments »Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman met the local media to offer some thoughts on the upcoming draft.
There wasn’t a whole lot to take away from what they said. The guys can’t exactly spill the beans less than 10 days away from the draft. I know the media would love them to come out and announce which QB they prefer. Or to talk about whether draftin Ezekiel Elliott is a real possibility. You would be foolish to give that info to the other 31 teams.
We did learn a few things.
The Eagles don’t sound as high on Paxton Lynch as the other 2 QBs. I heard something similar so that means he likely isn’t in play at 8 or even if they trade back a few spots.
Fletcher Cox isn’t going anywhere. Roseman was asked about dealing his star DL to move up. Roseman explained that Cox will not be traded. Roseman went on to say the Eagles know they aren’t going to “win” the negotiations with Cox. The Eagles are going to have to pay him huge dollars. Roseman did mention that he hopes some day down the road that Cox is considered one of the greatest Eagles of all time.
Roseman mentioned Dennis Kelly a few times when talking about the O-line. Roseman didn’t try to oversell him, but I think wanted to make sure people know Kelly does have a shot to win a backup job this year. Roseman did say the team won’t draft an O-lineman for the sake of it. They right player has to be on the board. Good news is that this is a deep group of OL and the Eagles should have plenty to choose from.
The Eagles are exploring all their options. They could move up, stay put or move back. It all depends on who is available and what the cost or benefits of the potential deal are. I know this drives some of you crazy, but it is the smart thing to do. If the cost of moving up isn’t that high, do it. If some team offers you a huge deal to move back, do it. If the right player falls to 8, take him. There is no magical answer that the team must do this or that. Explore the options and then see what makes the most sense.
Someone, I think Derrick Gunn, asked a question about drafting a QB. He said there have been 42 1st round QBs since 2000, but only 4 or 5 true franchise QBs. I disagree with this strongly. There may have only been a handful of truly great players, but you can’t judge based on that criteria. Philip Rivers is a franchise QB. So is Eli Manning. So is Matt Ryan. Not every QB is going to be Aaron Rodgers or Ben Roethlisberger or Cam Newton.
Someone asked about the cost of moving up and whether that risk was worth it. Roseman rightly responded that there is also a potential cost in not moving up. He mentioned that in order to separate yourself from the pack, you have to take some chances. You aren’t likely to build a title team painting by numbers, so to speak. You have to roll the dice some times and you need a bit of luck.
You also can’t be afraid to fail.
We didn’t come away from this knowing who the Eagles will take or anything all that definitive. We just got a couple of interesting comments and maybe a hint or two.
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NFL source calls Myles Jack "a time bomb" whose knee could give him several good years, or not. Bone and cartilage starting to break away.
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) April 18, 2016
The source compared Myles Jack's knee situation Jonathan Vilma. Vilma made the Pro Bowl twice, won Super Bowl, but only had 6-7 healthy yrs.
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) April 18, 2016
Source says Jaylon Smith's recheck showed drop-foot problem, caused by nerve damage, hasn't improved since the combine.
— Les Bowen (@LesBowen) April 18, 2016
If Jack falls to 8, should the Eagles draft him? That all depends on the Eagles doctors. If they think the Eagles can get several outstanding years out of Jack, they have to consider it. But there is serious risk. And don’t be fooled by videos or stories of him working out. The concern here is how his knee will hold up over time, not if he can run/cut right now.
Since the Eagles don’t need a LB right now, I’d be very cautious about taking him.
Smith has serious issues and is reportedly planning to sit out the 2016 season already. The medical staff would have to feel that there is a likelihood he could play in 2017 and beyond. If you want to risk a 5th round pick on him, go for it. I’d be nervous about taking him prior to that.
Smith could play MLB or either of the outside spots. He has big potential, but that does you no good if his injury has permanent affects.
No matter who these kids play for, I hope the best for both of them. You really hate to see gifted players hurt before they ever get a chance to show what they can do in the NFL.
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[…] Tommy Lawlor Doug Pederson and Howie Roseman met the local media to offer some thoughts on the upcoming draft. […]
HR & DP did what they were suppose to do today. They basically said nothing. Fine by me. I don’t want any team having any idea of what we may or not do on draft night. I admit that I am excited for draft night. I just want to come away with a building block player that will help this team for a long time.
I thought Pederson ran his mouth a little bit too much about Paxton Lynch’s valuation. Howie left it open-ended as to whether Lynch would be in play at #8, while Pederson was needlessly honest.
Someone needs to teach Dougie some OPSEC.
I don’t this DP said anything about Lynch that fans or teams don’t already know or believe. I think it would be a huge surprise if any team is trying to come up to #8 and take Paxton Lynch in the top ten. Of course if the Eagles did take Lynch at #8 then we could say DP said the perfect thing when he mentioned that Lynch at #8 would not be a good choice. HAHA
Perfect because it threw other teams off the scent and ensured we got him.
I think it is widely known that Lynch is a step back from Goff or Wentz. He basically said something everyone already knows.
Unless that was the plan, disinformation…
No one was ever going to spend a top 7 pick on Lynch, so Pedersons comments on him are pretty irrelevant
If you knew that Myles Jack would give you 6-7 outstanding years, you should take him 10 times out of 10.
When you draft a player, you only have their rights for 6 years tops, anyway. After that if they’re so good they will cost a lot of money and they’re not a QB, so I’m not sure that’s a big deal IMO.
Of course you need to see him in person and understand the injury to be sure.
I think this news will cause teams to alter their plans for him in the top 15 of their draft board. A team ready to win this year with a small window might take him later in the first round as it would be a luxury pick. Teams building for the future will probably take a perceived healthy player with a similar grade at a different position if given the choice. Just my opinion anyways. Like Tommy said I hope he is healthy and has a nice long career. Personally I would be nervous if the Eagles took him at # 8. I would prefer the highest rated 100% healthy player if possible.
Yeah. Maybe the Chipper games him because the injured players he added to the Eagles did so well.
It’s probably not a case of all teams viewing his knee the same way… Will all the top 15 teams deem his knee to be too problematic? Maybe, probably unlikely..
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Question: why is his meniscus injury such a concern? ISNT that typically less worrisome than ACL injuries? Hopefully there is no cartilage damage, because Catilage scares me BIGTIME!
You could make a similar argument for drafting a RB in the top 10, and a lot of fans hope that doesn’t happen.
But, of course, you don’t know that he’ll give you 6-7 outstanding years. Since there’s no guarantee of success, there are medical concerns, and it’s not really even a position of need, I’d be pretty annoyed if they used pick #8 on either LB.
Yeah, but there are other reasons not to take an RB at 8, like all the other RBs with similar potential that will be available in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
Are 4-3 linebackers really that special? It’s not like he’s an OLB pass-rusher (is he?).
With Kendricks likely to be around until 2018 due to the new contract, you’re probably giving up on 1-2 of those 6-7 years. Except for when Kendricks gets injured again, of course. All for a guy who’s as likely to be Aaron Curry as Luke Kuechly, only with medical concerns.
I in no way see him being an Aaron Curry. The only thing that will hold him back is injury, which unfortunately seems to be a very high possibility. Even higher then previously thought.
I WAS an advocate for Jack, but this report casts a picture that is far different then the one i thought it was.
I don’t really watch college football, because it’s corrupt and lacking in real competition 90% of the time, so I have to rely on other people to tell me what to think. Here’s what they say:
“Former UCLA LB Myles Jack is the best player in the 2016 NFL Draft, according to an NFL scout.”
“Curry is rated as the best player overall in the upcoming 2009 draft by many top authorities, including Sports Illustrated, NFL.com, and Scouts Inc.”
I understand where you are coming from but i dont think it is wise to read those 2 comments and assume Jack and Curry are the same type of player.
from what I remember of Curry’s pre-draft hype, he was supposed to be a bigger deal. Not only was he supposedly a stud, but he was more of pass rusher and thus a more valuable commodity. Not saying that Jack is Curry, just saying, hype levels don’t always translate to NFL careers.
Good question on 4-3 LBs; especially because we don’t know what Schwartz needs in terms of guys at that position.
Also; that hefty deal for Kendricks can be eliminated after this season w/o a net negative money hit.
I dont think there is a RB that has similar potential as Elliot in this draft. Next year, yes.
Still not a fan of Elliot at 8 unless the draft doesnt fall our way at all just because they are other very good backs. Make no mistake however, they arent similiar to Elliot.
Henry is the closest, but he will be taken in the 2nd in which we dont have a 2nd.
This argument is tired. Let it sleep. You can certainly find middle, or late round RB gems in this draft, but the idea that you, me, or any scout has an idea of who they are is complete BS. It’s all a guessing game when it comes to the draft. If Zeke is the best available player, according to your projections, then you take him, opportunity cost and implied odds be damned. Especially if he fills a need.
It’s CJ Prosise
While i have been advocating for Jack this report definitely casts a different light. I dont think the gamble is that he will last 6-7 years, but that its very realistic that he could only last 2 or 3 years due to re-injuring, or the knee consistently having a negative affect on him and making him miss sections of a seasons multiple times.
It’s a good point. In the NBA, teams passed on outstanding college player DeJuan Blair because of bad knees. The Spurs watched every other NBA team pass on him and took him late on this same idea–no, he won’t dominate for 15 years, but yes, he will probably be a productive player for at least a few. And that is what happened. It is better to have a player who can help you win for a few years than have a scrub for 20.
Yeah, it drives me crazy when people talk about drafting 1 prospect who will be an Eagle for 10 years, over a prospect that an only give us 6 or 7 good years… That’s a such a ridiculuos argument especially when it comes to this sport. Just the risk of injuries alone makes it absurd to include projections from 10 years from now as part of the draft decisions, we can take a healthy tackle who people say can play 10 years, but every time he steps foot on practive field and game field are at risk of being seriously injured. add in all the coaching, and GM regime changes, scheme changes, free agency and it’s pretty Crazy to assume a draft pick is going to be a great Eagle still, 9 or 10 years from now … give me 6 or 7 years of GREAT PLAY, and I’ll be happy with the pick. Anything more than that is gravy..
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I would think getting 6 or 7 years of Marshawn lynch. marshall Faulk, Brian Westbrook is more than enough value from round 1. I don’t care to further debate Zeke since by now everything that can possibly be said about him, has been said…. But just generally speaking, I think 7 years of Elite RB play from a guy that we feed 20-25 times a game is plenty enough value for me.
Correct me if im wrong but this report on Jack is very different then the reports or updates have previously stated. I am/was really high on Jack. Hope it is not true, but if it is then stay away. Really a shame.
What if the source is Howie Roseman?
Not sure what reports you’re hearing. The last couple of days, this report, from multiple outlets have been consistent about his ‘time bomb’.
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If CK was still here, he’d move up to get this guy with that kind of news….
I’m going to disagree with one comment: “Since the Eagles don’t need a LB right now”. On paper, the Eagles have bodies. Kendricks is a question mark. We have to stop saying ‘potential’ with him. After last season, he needs to be not only consistent, but productive. Hicks was fun to watch. Can he stay healthy? Is he any more of a question mark than Jack with health concerns? Our 3 starting LB is new(but familiar) but still a question mark. We need to see all 3 play, play well and NOT get injured. Outside of those risks, there are ‘ok’ back ups. I think the Eagles need a LB. Not desperate but counting on some hopefuls isn’t always the answer.
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Wanted to ask that question again — would Jack be anymore(or less) of a health risk than Hicks?
I love Jack as a prospect but he is not a plug and play LB. You need to design your defense around initializing his unique skill set. as MLB he lacks the size strength to handle the run game on a consistent basis, and really would need to be used as a WIL or slot CB depending on match ups.
The team needs to draft LB’s in the draft, as we lack quality depth and we do have a range of injury risk players, but i am not sure Jack fits into that exactly as he may only play WIL half the time and would not be an misused at the other LB position
Jack is plug and play.
He’s not undersized
Jack: 6’1 245lbs 33 5/8 arms
Wagner: 6’0 / 241
Mosley: 6’2 / 238 / 33 3/8
Keuchley: 6’3 /238/ 31
Ogletree: 6’2/ 242/ 33 5/8
Anthony: 6’3/ 243/ 32 1/2
Bowman: 6’0/ 242/ 33
Kwon: 6’1/ 227/ 30 1/4
Put on the UVA game, watch him flat out tossing OL, and tell me he can’t bang.
Yes he was deployed in creative ways at UCLA. But he was also used in the typical off ball LB ways as well. Just because he has excellent coverage skills in the slot or as a box safety, doesn’t mean he isn’t also a stud prospect who can play all 3 spots in a 43.
The only area he’s lacking is instincts. They aren’t bad just not fully developed (being used all over, only playing 2 years, being 20).
If he’s at 8 – do you take him? I doubt Tunsil falls — but if he and jack are at 8 — which one you take?
I’d be inclined to take him at 8. Again though, who knows what the medical staff thinks. If they clear him I have no problem with the pick. If they are iffy I would pass.
There is no way Tunsil and Jack both reach 8.
My top 10 players are:
1.Goff
2. Wentz (I’m not enamored with him but we need to do something at QB)
3. Tunsil
4. Ramsey
5. Jack
6. Stanley
7. Alexander
8. Bosa
9. VH3
10. Lawson
Thanks. I wasn’t sure how high Tunsil was valued after the Titans left. You like Stanley that high? (obviously). I think I’d be pretty excited with Bosa at 8….
completely agree. I’d be ecstatic if we took him. Jack and Ramsey are easily my favourite players in this draft.
Scout Kyle Crabbs rates him as the best player in the draft ..here’s his summary
“OB LB Myles Jack is an elite prospect who’s skillset it tailored perfectly to the style of play in the modern NFL. Jack should be considered a blue chip prospect regardless of scheme; the ability to play with physicality and power when necessary blended with the fluidity and
finesse to be a high end coverage linebacker is a rare combination. Jack is a high energy player who brings passion to the field of play; this energy is regularly channeled well for pursuit to the ball and in scrums to save yardage. Jack missed a majority of the 2015 CFB season with a knee injury, only playing in three games. Provided these health issues are resolved and Jack checks
out medically for a full return to 100% there should be no issues with discussing Jack as an
option at any point for any pick in the 2016 NFL Draft. Jack’s best fit ideally is as a SAM in a
4-3 defense, where his coverage abilities can be maximized and he can erase Tight Ends
from the game while also assisting in setting the edge against the run.
Take Jack if he falls and get your sports science team working overtime on him like he’s Steve Austin. Do what St Louis did with Gurley and ease him into the rotation. Eventually he can take over at the SAM or fill in for Kendricks whenever he suffers his annual injury.
Kendricks is the ultimate example of Eagles fans overrating the talent on the team.
Also an example of eagle fans ready to get rid of a player the first time he has a down year, which is just as bad
Has he had a great year? Oft injured, loose in responsibilities. I’m uncertain he’s an anchor.
But it goes more to the point that people think he’s indispensable. Not ready to give up on him, but far from a strength.
Where do you read the word GREAT in my post? defining “Down Yeàr” means not as good as previous years, which is perfectly fair to say when it comes to Kendricks 2015 season
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Considering I think it’s a lock that we draft at least 1 LB, I never called him indespensable.but we need to ADD LB talent/Depth… We aren’t adding anything if we add a LB, but subtract kendricks. Hopefully KEndricks stays healthy and has a big year, but contingency plans should be added
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Lack of durability in the starting LBs alone tells us anothet LB is on the way at some point in this draft
“‘Down Yeàr’ means not as good as previous years, which is perfectly fair to say when it comes to Kendricks 2015 season”
I think people’s concern comes from the fact that his 2015 season WAS just as good as the previous year:
Year…games…solo/assist/total tackles…sacks…forced fumbles…fumbles recovered…interceptions…passes defensed
2014…12…21/62/83…4…3…0…0…3
2015…13…22/64/86…3…1…0…0…3
2012 was a little less, 2013 was a little more. It isn’t time to give up, but key component to the defense status is certainly up for debate.
and games played…also – those stats don’t show his cover skills. The also don’t show growth. Where’s the improvement from one year to the next?
You read can’t play in mine. Like Tommy, several fans think his position is settled. I do not agree.
It’s a lock that the Eagles draft at least 1 LB
Or pick-up Tulloch when he gets cut for depth.
Najee Good is the only proven Backüp. We could use a LB via signing or trade luck Tulloch, AND a LB in the draft… Even if we draft a LB, we will still have to keep Skinner or Hepburn. I would assume Tolluch would replace them, not keeping us from drafting a LB
Looking back over some past draft picks, at number 8 we should be in line for a player a little better than Jerome Brown (9th overall), but not quite as good as Mike Mamula (7th overall). Who fits that description?
Well played. 🙂
I hope everyone calls the Browns bluff and forces them tô take someone at #2.. If Browns see Wentz as clearly inferior to Goff and have no intention of taking a QB, then unless dallas takes a QB, there isn’t much of a reason to trade into the top 3 if you want a QB
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There isn’t a player in his draft I want badly enough to package what it would cost to get to #2, especially when we don’t have a round 2 pick. If we love Wentz, fine, but don’t trade up to #2 for him…. If Browns aren’t taking a Qb, there won’t be much competition left for Wentz services. I struggle to believe that the narrative of us taking a QB in round 1 is real. But if it is, there isn’t much competition.. Maybe San Fran? Maybe the Jets? If Dallas doesn’t take Wentz, there is NO INCENTIVE for the Niners to trade up since they know the Jags and Ravens won’t take Wentz, so there is a decent shot that all the Eagles will have to do to secure Wentz is trade up to #6 to leap the Niners, I can live with that…. But to see the Eagles mortgage the next two drafts trading up to #2 for a QB that it seems not many teams really want is the worst thing this franchise could do IMO… Wentz would sit on the bench for two years, while we piss away two drafts worth of top picks? God NO!!!
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When it’s all said and done, I think the Browns will have to almost give the pick away if they want to trade back…
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If we trade up, odds are we will only get to draft 1 player in the first 3 rounds, which for me is the worst thing we could do in this draft. Even worse is the fact that we will most likely still owe some of next years pick…for a QB who will sit the bench for those two years? I can’t possibky believe Roseman will do this.
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I would rather trade back with The Titans or even Jets, instead of trading up for Wentz. This isn’t some can’t miss QB prospect we are talking about crippling our ability to build thru the draft to acquire
While wearing my negadelphian glasses, if the Eagles trade up for Wentz, I think the ideal situation in that scenario is for Bradford to put up his typical average season this year, have Chase come in when Bradford eventually gets hurt for 4 or 5 games, and have Wentz be your primary backup at that time. Release Bradford in the coming offseason, and have Wentz be your starter with Chase backing up.
If Lurie, Howie, and Pederson truly believe Wentz can be their franchise QB, don’t get cute. Go get him. After QB, get lineman and more lineman and more lineman and a LB for depth.
If they draft Wentz, signing Bradford to 22mil will go from a solid move to the single worst move of the offseason.. They signed Bradford for 22 mil to evaluate him another year and and push having to make a decision on him To next offseason.,. Drafting Wentz would make the bradford signing so Moronic because it would mean that we are marrying Wentz so no matter what Bradford does next year, we can’t Extend him, and if we already know we can’t extend him, there would be no reason to pay him what we did…
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If we draft Wentz than we should have treated Bradford the way the Jets are treating Fitzpatrik, but we didn’t, we gave him 22mil because we weren’t ready to say that he isn’t our future, and then two months later they invest a ton in a move that automatically means Bradford isn’t the future… It makes no sense to me, which is why it’s so hard for me to believe we will end up with Wentz even tho there are a million reports telling me different. I have enough respect for HOWIE to think he won’t do this.
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But if we do draft Wentz, you are right, Bradford not having a good year is ideal for us. Although because we have him signed to a cheap second year option, we may be able to trade him if he has a good year while Wentz is on our bench. But he would have to agree to an extension with the new team before they give us anything for Bradford, because only chip does dumb novice crap like that
The thing is, the Eagles didn’t and still don’t know if Wentz or Goff will be there for them. It’s an unknown if they will be in a position to draft either of them. As we have seen time and time again, one team will give up anything and everything. You couldn’t play hardball with Bradford because he was the best option out there at the time. They had no choice – much like when they signed Maxwell to that putrid contract. He was the “best” out there and they had to overpay because they literally were going to roll out garbage, although it turns out they did with him in there just the same lol. J
Just think, if the Eagles didn’t re-sign Bradford or sign Chase, and then were beat out by teams giving up a king’s ransom to draft Wentz and Goff – that leaves the Eagles with nothing at QB. They’d be overpaying for a Fitzpatrick or a Hoyer when he eventually gets cut, and Paxton Lynch or Hackenburg or Cook in your depth chart. I’m sorry, but EWW.
If they somehow draft Wentz (or any QB in the 1st), Howie will be on the phone to Denver to deal Bradford before the next team is on the clock. Daniels will be the starter (the guy who Pederson actually wanted) Wentz #2 and Mr. Irrelevant #3.
These two quotes from the press conferences I thought were telling:
Pederson stated that he has the same philosophy as Andy Reid when it comes to drafting Offensive and Defensive Linemen early and often in the draft. And, in regards to Notre Dame’s Ronnie Stanley he said, “He’s versatile enough to play guard in the NFL if he needed to”, and then he went on to praise Stanley’s length and athleticism.
Roseman on Stanley: “You talk about the length he possesses and the athleticism, he’s a really refined pass protector and it’s hard to find those guys. And, he has experience playing on the left and the right side. Those guys usually don’t stay around too long on draft day.”
I’m calling it now, if Stanley is there at 8 he will be the pick, baring a unprecedented drop from guys like Wentz, Goff, Tunsil, Ramsey.
Think the most telling was how open he was to talking about Cox. Saying that normally he would watch his words trying not to lose leverage in the negotiatipn, but when it comes to Cox, they don’t care, because they are so serious about paying and keeping here.
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If that didn’t put an end to the trade Cox absurdity, nothing will
“normally he would watch his words trying not to lose leverage ”
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Cox — as its been written here, in the media, and twitters — has absolutely ZERO leverage.
Anyone familiar with his contract situation knows . . .
Cox’s already subject to the 5th-year option for ’bout $7.5MM in 2016.
In 2017, if tagged, he’d get about $15-$16MM
In 2018, if tagged again, he’d get about $22-$24MM.
That’s less than $50MM total.
Very astute observation AC
Agreed in the sense that his statements on fox were the most definitive of all his comments. He left no room for interpretation there. But, he’s been saying similar things for awhile. I always knew that the Cox trade rumors were bogus and I was nearly 100% confident that they were going to do everything possible to sign Fletcher long term before he made those statements anyways. So maybe that told people who were buying into the trade rumors something that they didn’t know, but that statement, for me at least, just confirmed what I already knew. The statement that was “telling” in my eyes and I think told me something that I had no clue about was what he said about Stanley. Praising him that way, saying those types of guys don’t last long and are drafted real high and most importantly that they view him as someone that can play guard on top of all that told me a great deal about whether or not they’d pick him. Before that statement I literally had no clue what the Eagles were going to do with that pick. But now, I’m much more confident that if Stanley, Zeke and VH3 are on the board at our pick, Stanley is the guy they’re going with.
That being said I might be totally wrong too and Howies just putting out smoke screens … I’ll gladly eat crow if that ends up being the case. But, I don’t think it will. And frankly I’d be thrilled with picking Stanley.
Agreed on the cox talk….. If they have a Tackle, RB and CB all equal, they would most likely go with the Tackle, more times than not. Stanley drives me crazy, sometimes I love him, other times I wonder if he was going to fall into the 10-15 range. But yesterday’s statements sure make it sound like they have him as one of the top tier guys. If indeed he is a consensus top tier prospect, the Eagles may have to get in front of the Jags and Ravens to get stanley/Tunsil. I don’t think the jags would take a 3rd to let us move up for a Tackle. Think they need a tackle more than we do..
Yea…no way they let us move up for Tunsil if he’s still there at 5 for only a 3rd round pick. Stud LT is arguably the most important position/acquisition a team can make outside of a QB. Tunsil is widely regarded as the best LT prospect in many years. And, they have a pretty big need for a LT since Joekel doesn’t appear to be in their future plans. So I doubt they’d give up their chance to land Tunsil for a measly third round pick. That would be asinine of them.
If Tunsils gone though and Stanley is there, then it could go either way. While it’s highly unlikely that they don’t like Tunsil, it is possible that they would be concerned with Stanley’s character/work ethic issues and might have another guy ranked higher that would conceivably still be there at 8.
I like Stanley’s game quite a bit. I am concerned though if the rumors about his work ethic and dedication are true. So, I wouldn’t be interested in trading up for him. I’d be very happy with the pick if he fell to us at 8. Giving up 8 and a high 3rd rounder in year where we have no second round pick and we have a lot of holes in our depth at key positions is a high price to pay.
Granted Kiko and Maxwell weren’t all that great for us last year and in some instances, particularly Kiko, they were downright bad for a lot of the time. But, either way you’d essentially be giving up a starting (albeit overpaid CB), a young cheap LB with All-pro ability (albeit still recovering from an injury), the 8th overall pick and most likely the 77th overall pick which means after we took Stanley in that trade up scenario we’d have to wait for 74 more picks to be made before we’d get to select another player. And, we have depth issues at guard, WR, RB, still need a 3rd QB, DT, Inside and Outside LB, CB and S. Not a fan of that at all.
That’s been my thinking too for a variety of reasons, but the most important reason is that Stanley is absolutely a good pick at 8.
They even said that they think Stanley can also play Guard
I know I thought that was the most telling of all the statements they made about him with regards to what I perceive their intentions to be.
Hopefully that is true. Id like him a little more if he can play guard, just in case we get Lucky and find out that Peters has a few seasons at a high level left in the tank..
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Pederson claims that trainers/weight room coaches say that JP ISNT dealing with any back issues so far this offseason.
That’s great news! However, lifting weights and ramming your body into other NFL players at full speed 75 times per week plus whatever they do at practice is a whole ‘nother animal.
“He mentioned that in order to separate yourself from the pack, you have to take some chances. You aren’t likely to build a title team painting by numbers, so to speak. You have to roll the dice some times and you need a bit of luck.
You also can’t be afraid to fail.”
Three years ago, this is why “everyone” loved Chip. He was willing to take chances, paint with a different pallet, and definitely roll the dice. He did not have a good enough understanding of the NFL game and he ran out of luck.
Chip is gone, so what is the point? Chip the GM was a failed experiment but Lurie tried it because he and the Philadelphia Eagles are not afraid to fail in their quest for a championship. Roseman is not afraid to fail. He got demoted, stuck it out, and is back in the seat. While it was a regrettable mistake, it is something they will move on from. I heartens me to see resilience in the organization.
Too much work goes into this process for it to really be a “Roll of the dice”… While it’s still a gamble because of it being an inexact science, it’s more like “counting Cards”..which is still gambling, but a more informed way of gambling.
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If it was Truly a crap shoot, we would be foolish to ever criticize or praise a pick.
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If they are going to go for it, at least it’s not in a potentially crippling way the way the Sixers went all in with Bynum.
Seahawks GM John Schneider admitted the team will be looking to trade down in the draft.
“This is one of those drafts, just from a numbers standpoint, this is the best draft since we’ve been here,” Schneider said. “So since 2010, sheer numbers, we have about 130 or 140 guys on our board. [This year], we’re going to have about 200, which is a lot.” The Seahawks have not made a pick in the first round since 2012, and they may keep that run going in this year’s deep draft. If they keep the No. 26 overall pick, Seattle will likely look to add talent on the offensive or defensive line.
I like what Roseman is doing at #8, maximizing one’s optionality as Hinkie would say is best. Figure out all the angles to move up, move down or stay put. Have your contingency plans worked out ahead and do extensive scenario planning so another panic situation does not occur.
Put me in the avoid injury prone players camp re. Smith and Jack. It is just too much risk for a team with 1 first rd pick and no second rd pick and the amount of roster holes we have. We have to nail this first pick big time.
The other thing to remember is once we draft our group of players, we need to be able to develop them effectively. With a new coaching staff and system, getting a guy who can step right in and perform quickly does have value. The Eagles have a window with the division being poor and they need to take advantage.
aren’t all GM’s doing(or trying to do) the same at their respective pick?
From Bob Ford:
Heading into the season-ending game against the Giants, carrying the burden of a 6-9 record, Kelly was asked if his dual roles as coach and personnel boss had been too much to handle.
“I’m not the general manager, so I don’t run our personnel department. I’m not in charge of scouting,” Kelly said. “My job has never changed. To say I’m a head coach and a general manager. . . . I’m not the general manager.”
Well, that was news to Lurie, who very clearly remembered pushing Howie Roseman into the equipment closet the previous offseason to allow Kelly full control of the roster. One day after he said he wasn’t the general manager, Kelly wasn’t the coach, either.
“I wanted to make Chip accountable for everything he wanted to have happen. And one of the ways to make him accountable was to have him make those decisions, because that is what he insisted on decisively doing,” Lurie said after firing Kelly. “So, if you want to make those decisions, be accountable for them, and that’s the direction it took.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20160419_Ford__Eagles_still_lack_accountability.html#ZkMbrgSDm31PXStu.99
Re-reading Lurie’s accountability comment, you get the impression — as other have said before — that he doubted Kelly.
Should have just canned the guy then.
Yeah . . . but Chipper was coming off back-to-back 10-6 seasons.
Then he gave up a 2nd for a QB the Rams were going to cut for cap reasons.
G-E-N-I-U-S!!!!!!
Think thats a little unfair.. Browns were trying to trade for Bradford and Chipper felt he needed to get in and blow them away with a lavish offer, not realising Bradford would never extend with the Browns and they would not trade much for him without a reasonable contract extension on the table.
“Browns were trying to trade for Bradford . . . ”
______
Rumor — probably floated by Rams GM Les Snead — was the Browns offered a 1st Rd pick.
If so, why would the Rams take a 2nd?
Right, Nicky Sticks.
How quickly I’ve forgotten GEagle’s favorite HOF QB
Sam Bradford has always been our favorite QB…until it becomes Carson Wentz. We have always been at war with Oceania.
We may need to send you to reeducation camps, with that attitude.
UPvote for the Orwell reference. (You don’t find this kind of intellect over at BTB. Just sayin’.)
Nick RAINMAKER FOles, an idea forever assimilated by the weight of the vast amount of sewage spewed over it in time.
Have to really know what the Browns were offering to know if we paid too much… Think they deserve more criticism for not making Bradford agree to a new contract as part of the trade, but even that was probably hard to do considering Bradfords unique circumstances probably making it difficult for both sides to agree on money in an extension at the time when he was coming off of two season ending surgeries
which is why no sane team trades a 2nd Rd pick for Bradford
I think Lurie handled it well – if he believed in Chip enough to hire him knowing his approach, character and systems, then it makes sense to give him total authority once he had proven himself (back to back 10 win seasons, 1 playoff berth).
It serves a dual purpose, if it succeeds the Eagles are better off since Roseman had hardly set the world on fire as GM. If it fails, it will be quickly evident and they can move on once they know Chip’s bluff got called and he was over his head after all.
Lurie is looking for a Belichek, a Parcells, someone like he had with Reid in charge. The “collaboration” messaging is important within the football operations department of the organization, but Lurie wants one head who is guiding the whole process and accountable at the end of the day. That is what he did with Reid, was hoping to duplicate with Kelly and now has given to Roseman.
Lurie has owned the Eagles for 20+ years and came in stating his goal was to win multiple SB. He realizes it is beyond time to deliver. If Roseman spits the bit as GM, I expect pretty swift action on Lurie’s part to bring in the next head with hopes of achieving the ultimate result.
I agree. Lurie is getting way too much credit for his mealy-mouthed, half-assed dealings with Chip and Roseman. The whole thing was weak, indecisive, toxic. I wonder when’s the next time the Eagles will sniff 10 wins.
Packaging lots of picks to trade up is a sore spot here.
True enough.
But just think if the Eagles traded all 7 of their 2011 picks.
After the riots subsided . . . .
The Eagles would have just about reached the 8th spot — which the Titans held. And let’s assume TN makes the deal.
Since the Eagles didn’t need a QB in 2011, they’d have had their choice, for example, of:
– Tyron Smith
– JJ Watt
– Robert Quinn
No other picks the rest of the draft.
No Watkins. Or Jarrett. Or Marsh. No Henery. No Matthews. No Dion Lewis or Vandevelde. No Brian Rolle or Greg Lloyd. Or Havili.
And, alas, no Jason Kelce.
Should have made the deal.
So a front office that made the rest of those picks would have picked the correct guy at #8 as well? Unlikely. We had Jason Peters and thought we were fine with Herremans at RT, so doubt we would have picked Smith either. We are just as likely to drafted Mike Pouncey, who would have been nice, but is he that much of a difference maker? The Eagles were obviously fixated on fixing guard that year in the draft, so maybe Jamaal Jackson stays at C and the OL coach doesn’t get the athleticism he wanted. Or maybe we pick Nick Fairley, if they went defense. Not a bad player but not a difference-maker.
You can cherry-pick an awful drafting year in hindsight to say all those picks aren’t worth it, but most years are better than that, and result in far more returns especially in team depth. If you are making one pick a year, you may get a really good player most years, but the rest your team will be either UDFAs or expensive free agents. If you do the same thought experiment with 2012, where are we?
I’d be interested in a team that dumped mid to late picks and made the effort to move up on a consistent basis. What if every draft you only come away with 2-3 top 20 picks.
There isn’t enough ammo in rounds 2-7 to get three top-20s, but two would be interesting.
Salary cap would kill you. ST would suck. I think Vikings example above is an extreme one, but interesting.
Belichick does this to a lesser extent every year. He’s brilliant at turning later picks into higher picks by constantly trading around on draft day. It involves a lot of trading down when there’s no one you like at your pick to stock pile extra picks or future picks in higher rounds. But, he always ends up eventually taking those picks and turning them into a premium selection.
Here’s a great article on his 10 best moves that did just that:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/
#RIPgrantland
The problem with this theory:
Then coach Andy Reid selects, Danny Watkins with the 8th overall pick in the 2011 draft.
Slam!
That draft was so, so, so, so, so bad.
And we all knew it at the time.
Some of us tried to talk ourselves into it.
But deep down, we all knew that draft was a disaster.
Most of the class was instantly expendable.
I think we somehow find a way to get Vandervelde. We always do.
Wow… “Too much F’ing perspective”
Video showing how things may have been in the Eagles’ 2014 draft room.
Its really crazy but there have been six times including during the Cuban Missile Crisis where one individual (Soviet/American) stopped global thermonuclear war.
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/722452478332014598
So what’s the maximum you’d guys give up to move from #8 to #2?
Presumably it’s for Wentz.
I assume a 2016 3rd and 2017 1st is the starting point…
Rumor is the Browns want a number of picks, think that is probably the price with a couple of later rounds thrown in as well (maybe a 5 and 7) to give them those.
Seems the Browns are shopping the pick so unless there is a bidding war then the price could be even cheaper (maybe just both 3rds + late pick).
There is so much smoke there must be a degree of fire from the Browns… but i think they are mad if they do not take a QB…. maybe they plan to tank in 2016 for Watson?
Tough choice for teams. Since Dallas jump is shorter than the Eagles – would their “cost” be cheaper? Hard to get a bidding war going when each team would have a different ‘value’ depending on position. Or does their position not matter in negotiations?
Thinking we can refer to him as Dr. Obvious at this point…
I believe this is what is currently consuming the energy of the “braintrusts” (Lurie included) at NovaCare. Seems apparent they are mulling an offer (if they haven’t already made one), and I believe it will come down to how likely it is that their guy is available, and how high the cost goes given the probability of multiple bidders involved. I think it’s 50/50 at this point…
Ugh…that’s way too much for my tastes. Next years 1st could conceivably be in the top 15 again. The thought that we would have given up Foles, a 2nd, a 4th, two high 1st round picks, a 3rd rounder, Maxwell and Alonso to find a QB and end up with Carson Wentz and Chase Daniel next year is depressing.
I dont get all the hype with Wentz. I know physically and mentally he checks all the boxes, but the tape is just not that impressive in my eyes.
You’re really not going to like the 8, 77, 79, next year’s 1, and next year’s 3 story then.
Jesus…that’s an awful lot of ammo for a guy that threw 45 TDs over a 4 year career at North Dakota State.
we’d end up picking Wentz at number 2 and then waiting 98 picks to make another selection. Then we’d have no first or 3rd next year. Meanwhile we have no depth on this team at any position except maybe DE and TE. In the next 2 years we will need a starting RB, a starting OT, a starting OG, backups at every single OL position, a #2 TE, depth at WR, depth at DT, possibly a starting DT if they can’t extend both Logan and Cox, depth at all 3 LB positions, a starting CB and depth CB and depth at S. And, we’ll have one 4th rounder and two 5th rounders this year (I’m not counting anything after the 5th round since those picks are basically statistically the same as UDFA when it comes to success rate) and a 2nd rounder, a 4th and a 5th next year. I don’t like our chances to field a full team with that strategy.
Adam Caplan
@caplannfl
2m2 minutes ago
#Eagles have 4 players in this week’s mini-camp on a tryout basis: DT Ken Bishop, FB Michael Zordich, WR DaVaris Daniels and WR T.J. Graham
Graham has the most pedigree. Former 3rd round pick of BUF. Was with NO part of last year where Greg Lewis was an offensive assitant. Daniels is asst DL coach Phillip Daniels’ son.
The most pedigree?! Graham’s dad didn’t play and coach for the Eagles, did he? Now that is pedigree.
Pedigree in terms of actually being active in NFL games.
I always thought pedigree was meant in terms of “bloodlines.” Sure didn’t work out for Casey Matthews.
(Nevermind)
A photo has been leaked of the Cleveland Browns preparing in their war room.
1943 Giants?
Who could forget 2x Little All American DB Dwight Holshouser from Catawba, 18th Rd pick — who decided to coach basketball rather than go to the G-men
HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS STUFF!!
Yeah, really. I didn’t even know enough to know if he was serious or just making up stuff like I did. I started looking at architecture and clothing for signs that it could be the ;40s.
Google
Also, Villanova RB George “Locomotive” Smith on the board.
I call BS. That was at a speech and debate meet in 1937.
Fancy walls in the Factory of Sadness.
Well, I think this guarantees that either Gruden or I will be shocked, but not both.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/722457681303248896
ATG:
Has Gruden ever seen a QB (on his show, I assume, for CH) who wasn’t U.S.D.A. Prime?
Here’s a pretty decent write-up on Hack the person. I wonder what his career arc would have been if he transferred to Alabama.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2632381-christian-hackenberg-the-mystery-man-of-the-nfl-draft
Gruden claims that tape of Hackenberg his first season with Bill Obrien should be enough to warrant a first round pick…..if Gruden ever goes back to Coaching, better not let that man have personal control..
.
Id love to see a draft off between chip and Gruden..
The guy fell in love with every free agent QB when he was with Tampa Bay. Pretty much constant churn at the position.
Tune in Monday night to watch him fall in love with players over and over again
He has no personal control at all… In fact, he’s totally out of control
USA Today Ranks Howie 23rd best NFL GM..
What a bullshit list.
The Rams assembled one hell of a defense, but they’ve been irrelevant for years due to a complete inability to get anything going on offense and have hade mediocre at best coaching under Snead.
Obviously the Redskins have had succes this year, but we still have no idea whether Cousins is the real deal, and they have yet to pay him. Their GM have also been in place for 1 year.
The Cowboys fucking sucked this year, and yes Romo got hurt, but thats not really news is it? Everything is better than Jerruh for them, but come on, 11 in the NFL?
The Jets’ GM? Really? OK Good job of cleaning up after Idzik, but haven’t really done jack shit either.
Also, and this isn’t really anything much, because they didn’t fuck up, but I wonder how different Ted Thompson would be ranked if Rodgers was a bust, because that team is good, but no where near a SB team without A-Rod. Whereas a guy like Newsome continuously hit and have kept that roster talented overall, especially on defense.
Not to say Roseman is a complete genius who can do no wrong, but not a very well thought out ranking.
If you exclude QB, I’d rather have the Eagles roster than GB’s all day long. Ditto Redskins.
But Dallas and Jets do have nice rosters.
I’d take the Skins’ roster over the Eagles’ right now.
aw hell naw
You sure about that?
http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/WAS
Think Roseman was never going to do well in a list like this, mostly because all of the enemies he made, and his bad reputation of not working well with others that Roseman and Lurie are trying to change..
..
Roseman has his strengths, has built a great relationships with agents and a reputation for getting deals done. Is as good as it gets when it comes to contracts and arichetect of our salary Cap short term and long term. Does a good job getting trades done which isn’t common in the NFL
..
Roseman also has had his weakness for example he has a terrible track record of evaluating how pro and college corners would transition to the Eagles defense. Love that he just went out and got a Corner our DC has had success with, and extended Nolan a CB we already know, and didnt bother trying to evaluate free agent corners
.
Also have to remember that he interned his way into this business, he is just now starting to be considered a veteran GM. hopefully he has and will continue to grow as a GM the more Experiemce he gains.
.
There probably aren’t 22 GMs that Id rather have, but his reputation probably doesn’t help him when it comes to these lists
In all fairness, it’s hard to draft DB’s. That’s why I don’t want anything to do with trading up for Ramsey or even grabbing VH3 at #8.
I completely agree.., but Roseman has also done a pretty poor job evaluating free agent corners and project how they will fit in as Eagles.. If he struggles with free agent Corners, and struggles with CB prospects, i think it’s fair to say evaluating corners has been a weakness for him. hasn’t done much better with Safeties either…. Of course there are a lot of other factors, he could have correctly evaluated Corners that we weren’t able to get, and scouts failures to properly evaluate corners could have factored into his failures…. But DB is a position that jumps out at me as something he has traditionally struggled with…. Boykin was his one solid CB selection. Chip most likely had a lot to do with us targeting Malcolm Jenkins, Nolan Carrol, Eric Rowe..
..
What would you say are one of Rosemans weakness?
I think this list wasn’t that bad although it wasn’t very objective. If you really believe Roseman had some level of key input during the decision-making during his previous tenure as GM, I would put him as an average/below average GM right now (~20).
This team has to come out this year, play fairly well & make the playoffs, and Roseman’s moves generally have to pan out especially his 1st round pick contributing meaningfully this year. If that is the case, Roseman’s rep will rise accordingly but he definitely is in the ‘show me’ category right now.
I’d would rank Scot McCloughan higher than Roseman too right now.
Rams shouldn’t be on the list at all after what they did with the king’s ransom they got from the RG3 trade. Most one sided trade in recent history, and they’re still basement dwellers with no hope. But hey, they got an extra 2nd rounder out of us in the Bradford trade. Whoopdeedoo.
Let me stop you at USA today.
I much prefer USA yesterday. Make America Great Again
I mention it often but footdrop is a peroneal nerve issue which can have several causes.
Think of the nerves as the body’s electrical system. And the peritoneal nerve is a wire.
It’s either connected or it’s not. If it’s connected, the foot works, you can lift it at the ankle.
If it’s severed, they probably can’t fix it.
But if it’s twisted or pinched, it can in time untwist or loosen. And if it does, it is fixed. It works again immediately. There is no recovery period. It just works as if a wire were reconnected.
The intricacies of peroneal nerve issues can never be mentioned often enough.
Neither option sounds great for his football career. Once you’re off the track it’s really hard to get back on. New year, new crop of super athletic kids that people get excited about – the 2017 Jaylon Smith if you will.
You could say the same for any injury.
I’m telling you, it is very possible that before the draft, this condition could be completely gone. I mean, gone as if it never happened. If that happens, he’ll suddenly jump up draft boards.
Or, it might never come back, which is why it’s such a weird injury.
So he can’t bend his foot?
I had this and it was a few months of not being able to lift my right foot from the ankle. You can still,of course, lift your leg higher to keep tripping over it. And you can still tilt your foot from side to side. That is how I was able to drive my car during that time. I got used to that and still drive that way sometimes.
Was that JR Reed’s issue when he cut up his leg jumping over that fence? I seem to remember he had drop foot and could never make it back.
Yea the peroneal nerve (which controls the muscles that get you to pull your foot up at the ankle) runs around the backside and then around the outside part of the knee.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/foot-drop/multimedia/peroneal-nerve/img-20008172
Reed was running from a dog and hurdled a wooden fence but caught his leg as he was going over. The back of his knee got caught on the fence post which had a point to it, his body tumbled over and he ended up hanging from the fence post which was impaling the back of his knee. It completely severed his peroneal nerve.
Typically when you completely severe a nerve like that you never fully regain function. Nerves are kind of elastic and when you severe them they tend to recoil away from each other, so it’s hard for them to grow back together. Plus nerves can only grow at a rate of 1mm a day. So healing is super slow and rarely do the two ends spontaneously end up growing directly into each other, especially when it’s such a gruesome traumatic injury.
Jaylen’s issue is much less severe in that his nerve was never severed (at least that’s my understanding). Most likely his injury caused the nerve to stretch or get compressed in a way that damaged it. When it gets damaged and inflames the myelin sheath around the nerve dies and signals are no longer able to cross the damaged section as well as before. These type of injuries typically heal over time and more will regain full function than won’t. But, healing of nerves just takes forever, so that’s why he literally needs to take a full year off. And, there is always the very real possibility that his nerve function never regains full function.
Other nerves can pick up some slack and nerves can grow back together depending on how far apart each end is. If you lose someone in the dark you can find them much easier if they are 2 feet away as opposed to 50. Nerves grow at around 1mm a day. Im not convinced he is done healing yet. We wont see the finished product for quite some time. On another note Im interested as to what happened to your peroneal (fibular) nerve. Did you fully recover or do you have some lingering sequelae?
Fully recovered
That’s not entirely true. Nerves can be damaged or irritated by being pinched, compressed, stretched, impinged on ect, causing dysfunction in it’s ability to fire correctly, without being completely severed and the effects of that damage are almost never immediately reversed. Nerves that are not severed but simply damaged in some way or another can and will eventually heal, but everything with nerves takes lots of time. Often full function can take up to a year to reestablish itself. And, there’s really no such thing as the peroneal nerve twisting.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000791.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenker%27s_paralysis
Yeah, I don’t know what it looked like internally. My leg twisted when I fell and I didn’t notice the footdrop at first because I fell on my face.
Nevertheless it just stopped working in the Fall one day and then one day the following Spring it just started working again. There was no transition. One day it wouldn’t lift at all and the next day it did, completely. I would physically move my foot around every day with my hands to keep it loose, for whatever it was worth, but other than that I did nothing to bring about healing.
I’ve never had another injury with that type of instant recovery.
Has this been covered?
https://twitter.com/JasonColeBR/status/722464811603210240
Bowen says it is BS.
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/722460849240207360
And isn’t 52 million right around what he would get, fully guaranteed over the next three years of option year and franchise tags?
Why trust a stupid beat who gets sources from Jersey Shore?
Funny you should mention that, because he is retreating faster than the tide.
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/722476117421072388
Lol @ media these dayzzz
Or not…
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/722475050159489024
I think that is probably exactly what he is going to get. A player of that caliber always starts there. Cox is one of the crazy ones who should actually get it. If his career arc continues it is worth it 100x over.
A contract is guaranteed against injury – doesn’t happen on franchise tags.
Get er doneeeee
This would be really unpopular but if Roseman thinks he has less than a 50% chance to resign Cox at this point he should trade him on Draft Day.
Unless you can get something amazing for him I don’t see it happening. You have to remember that they still have 2-3 years of his services under contract.
Why would a team trade us for Cox when they can probably get Mohhamed Wilkerson for much Cheaper since the Jets have a greater sense of urgency to trade him?
..
Fortunately Norman Braman doesn’t own the Eagles so I don’t have to worry about the Cox nonsense… Hopefully The Eagles are lucky enough to spend the 8th pick on a guy who goes on to Command even more money than Cox.
..
“Unpopular”?? More like “Absurd”….
Because Cox has multiple years left and there is a much longer window to try to resign him long-term.
What does Braman have to do with this either? Simply didn’t attempt to make serious efforts to retain key players because he viewed the Eagles as a business first and foremost that had to kick out a decent cash flow annually.
I’m sure that Roseman has already has some talks with Cox’s agent this offseason to get a sense of how receptive Cox was to signing an extension & what kind of ballpark they are talking.
Cox is a very good player but he isn’t a guy I would want this team to largely hand a blank check either.
You really think Cox isn’t going to be here 3 years from now?
Depends on what kind of money Cox wants and if he wants to be the best paid DT or even DL in the NFL.
I think Fletcher is here. Logan, on the other hand…
Think they will both be extended, but that Logan is less of a lock that Cox is to be here
Do you really think Cox isn’t going to be here 3 years from now?
..
Are you also hoping that Roseman makes sure not to draft someone that too good and ends up commanding Cox money?
and if there’s another team willing to give it to him.
I bet the Saints would after what he did to them last year.
Echos of the Eagles never letting Trotter or Simon go?
Someone decided that saving a couple million was more important that signing a 390 lb MLB to replace JT.
This is similar to Simon in a sense. They are fairly similar. I content Cox is far better than Simon. Simon essentially peaked his first season. He was very good all the way until he left us. Using hindsight (I’m a cheater!) he was certainly on the decline.
Cox getting 9.5 sacks as a 34 two gap end compared to the Simon in JJ’s scheme is the biggest indicator for me. The potential Cox has makes me giddy. With Simon we were hoping if he were signed long term he would focus and get back to his early success.
Even if this were the same front office as the one who tossed those two (its not that different), I have zero fear that Cox will ever be anywhere but here.
Why would he have that % to sign Cox? If you’re even remotely basing that on the Eskin report, please listen to the BGN podcast from last week. The entire premise of that report is completely debunked.
This is ridiculous. Can we please stop with the “Eagles are going to/might/should/maybe trade Cox”? Not going to happen. They finally got one draft pick right (and it has Howie’s name all over it). No way they move him. Nor should they.
It’s about as valuable of a conversation as talking about the Eagles drafting a pink unicorn in round 3
If he is available you trade into middle two for him…
Nah. Unicorns are going the way of FBs in this league: only Heath Evens believes in them.
But he has wings.
Heath Evans as wings?
He is in the clouds for sure.
Okay, so you get to our first pick of the third and a unicorn, and pegasus, and a minotaur are available. Who do you take?
this is stupid. why get a unicorn when we don’t run a 34 front?
Minotaur. The line needs an attitude check.
Wrong, hotshot. You take Heath Evans. The man’s still got it and there is a .94 correlation coefficient between the number of fullbacks on the roster and the probability of winning the Super Bowl. The only ring a minotaur earned is the one in his nose.
Wrong Heath… we need Heath Ledger. He has more versatility, and from what I’ve seen has put his ability to close the deal an win on tape (First Knight) and shows willingness to try just about anything to take down the hero of the opposing team (The Dark Knight). One thing is for sure, he will be valuable in knight games. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get him on the phone…
Surge Knight, Heath Ledger: the Dark Knight, M Night Shyamalan, all the great entertainers linked to that name are taken from us too soon.
(Psst, M. Night Shyalaman is still alive.)
I stand by my statement.
Because possibly Cox’s agent said this offseason that Cox wants to be paid as one of the 2-3 best DT in the NFL and what kind of value Roseman places on that position.
But there isn’t. There simply is no chasm. There have been no indications that they’re far apart at all. Nothing his agent has said, nothing Howie has said. They’ve all said the opposite, in fact.
Howie has made it clear that he thinks Cox is worth it. Repeatedly. There’s only so far you can go with the “I don’t trust a word he says” thing.
You might not think Cox is worth it. The team clearly does. So this “50%” thing is based more on your opinion of worth than the team’s. It’s pure conjecture.
Never said it wasn’t but I don’t see Roseman giving Cox a blank check either willing to resign him at largely any price. Much more aligned with how Kelly was here as the GM.
Given the moves they made this offseason though and the money they spent (and they spent a ton again but largely to resign & extend their own players), I don’t see them having the willingness to endure a rebuilding year or two where they win 4-6 games. Probably the biggest reason why they wouldn’t consider moving Cox right now.
He should be paid like he’s one of the best defensive lineman in the league, because he is.
Still there’s literally no urgency to trade away our best player right now when we still control his rights for 3 more years at below market value salaries. Trading a player who you don’t think you’re going to be able to resign makes sense if their in the last year of their deal AND their not the type of player you’d give franchise tag dollars to. But, in Cox’s case, franchise tag money is actually less than giving him the contract he’s seeking.
I think everyone involved knows its 99.99% likely. If Rosenman only thinks his shot is 50% or less, you still keep him imo. This isn’t baseball. In theory the Eagles can keep him forever if they so choose.
Eagles have Cox under control for the next 3 years at below market price. There is no reason to expect he is not going to be an Eagle for the next 2 years at least and you have plenty of time to get a deal done in the meantime.
There is no urgency from either side to get things done at this point, no deadline or important date is approaching that is going to force people to compromise on their offers.
It is a hard contract to negotiate… Eagles say why give big fully guaranteed $$ when we can keep you year to year on the cheap for the next 3 years, and Cox feels he deserves those kind of guarantees to get him to commit to signing a deal. I really think the over analysis on this issue is crazy, the deal will get done, both the team and the player wants to him to stay and when a little pressure gets applied to both sides something will be worked out… i would expect something end of May just before mandatory camp or just before Training camp in August.
This! A thousand times…this! Well said. Eagles hold all the cards, because if they wanted to be dicks they could slap the franchise tag on him two years in a row, save a bunch of money, relieve themselves of the inherent risk in giving away a huge amount of guaranteed money to a player that on any given play could have his lower extremities destroyed and there’s little recourse Cox would have aside from being pissed and pouting about it since the new CBA makes it financial suicide to hold out these days.
The Eagles are actually being fairly generous and respectful saying to him hey, we don’t have to off you anything more than the $8mil your getting this year and whatever the franchise tags would be in 2017 and 18, but we think you’re so great and want you to be a part of this team for your entire career so we’re willing to give up that leverage and sign you to a fair market deal now.
Cox will posture this offseason and avoid voluntary activities because why risk getting hurt when you don’t have to and don’t have the huge guaranteed dollars already sitting in your account, in an attempt to get the best deal he can for himself. But, eventually reality will set in and he’ll realize that holding out and getting fined every day isn’t a financially prudent course of action and playing professional football for a little under $8million this year with $60million guaranteed sitting on the table and risk losing it all with one awkward fall just to try and quibble over the details of this contract isn’t going to be very enticing either.
By now, I am done debating Zeke Elliot as a pro prospect. If a team views him as a Great NFL back he will go top 10, if not he will be viewed as a Good NFL RB and he will get drafted in the 11-20 Range,,. Think that’s safe to assume he probably won’t be falling into the 20s..
..
Just for the sake of this post, im going to assume he is a Great RB prospect that will go top 10.. for him to really make sense for us is a difficult situation. if he is easily the highest graded player available, you take him IMO. If there are other similarly graded prospects it becomes trickier.
..
I think it’s fair to say that the Eagles ARENT ready to commit to Bradford Longterm, but that they also are not ready to decide that Bradford is NOT their guy. They basically paid 22million to punt having to make this decision to next offseason, allowing them another year to evaluate him. This kind of makes the first round RB situation Tricky. if Bradford has a big year and earns himself an extension making him our QB for the DP era, than Zeke Elliot can be extremely valuable for us because even if you can only expect 7 good years from a RB, The window to try and contend with Bradford would open and close by the time we got to Zekes 7th year. if Bradford is the guy, they are going to want to contend in the next 2, 3, 4, years, in which case Zeke can be a very valuable pick for us..
..
However, the window to contend becomes very different if you draft and Develope a franchise QB. It’s possible that an Elite ROSTER can contend with a QB in his first few seasons, but more often than not, I believe when you decide to invest in a First round QB, you better be ready to be patient and try and give the kid 4 or 5 years to develope with the same coaches, mastering the same scheme. I think there are a lot of Qbs who failed that could have succeeded had they been given 5 years to grow in a scheme.
..
So if The Eagles were to draft Wentz, or if Bradford fails to earn himself an extension with his play this year and we are forced to draft a QB in round 1 next year, while a Great RB can obviously help out a rookie plenty, we would have to assume that by the time we give our QB 5 years to develope, and then be ready to contend, we would only have a couple years of Zeke in his prime by the time the QB prospect develops enough to contend, so drafting a RB becomes less valuable if Bradford doesn’t save us from having to draft and develope a franchise guy.
..
It would be like the Panthers making a huge invest in a RB back when Cam was a rookie. He would have helped out a young Cam a lot, but by the time Cam developed into an Elite QB ready to contend, that RB they invested in would only have a few seasons left before he starts to decline..
..
If it turns out that we are drafting and developing our franchise QB, may be wise to wait TIL the QBs 4th or 5th NFL season before making a significant investment in a RB, that way you better time having an Elite RB in his 2nd or 3rd season right around the same time your young QB has developed enough to open that teams contender window…
..
If it turns out that 2 or 3 years from now we will be trying to contend with Bradford, a RB at #8 would give us plenty of value worthy of the selection.
.
Unfortunately Roseman DOESNT have a crystal ball and will have to make this decision before seeing how much better Bradford can be This year, so he should only take the RB if he is clearly the highest graded player when we pick
That is an odd first sentence, considering the 9 paragraphs that follow.
Classic example of an internal contradiction turned debate.
I think he typed that in the shower.
Im talking about spending first round picks on RBs early in the career of developing young QB. this goes for not drafting a RB early next year either if they take a QB…. But thanks for the valuable response… It’s my fault for not knowing better. My mistake for assuming you couldnt figure out for yourself that we wouldnt even have a first round pick to trade for Zeke if we took Wemtz. But good day kind sir
LOL!
“Debate is a method of formally presenting an argument in a disciplined manner.”
Resolves the apparent paradox, doesn’t it?
Don’t you mean Discaplined? That mistake seems out of Chaerectar for you.
This one is for Mike…
https://twitter.com/EliotShorrParks/status/722463332796669952
He’ll look good on the sidelines.
Being inactive, he will be able to pick shirts to really show off the guns.
It’s all about the eye test baby!
Hopefully after we draft someone much better he’ll look even better in the stands
I heard he throws a mean pass, too.
Cutting edge reporting as usual from ESP
Typical. He should be working out his legs so he could actually run better than Josey or Mostert. He might also want to work on some grip exercises due to his fumble and dropped pass issues from the end of last year.
What are the odds that he makes the team without Chip Kelly around? 2%?
Anyone else get the sense that Chip really didn’t trust running backs in his scheme? Like he was handing nuclear launch codes over to them along with a spot on the roster or something. It seemed like he was always looking for the guy in the twilight of his career, because he needed someone as veteran as humanly possible. “Talented young back? Nah, I don’t trust him, give me old guys and the guy I know, give me Barner”
From your lips to God’s ears.
Jets trying to package Wilkerson and picks to move up for a QB, but the reporters source said they really liked Goff, so it’s unclear if this still stands now that the Rams moved to 1
I know he’s been a letdown but Huff’s TD against the bucs was beautiful
Random. Disagree that he has been a let down, but this is his make or break year!
Yea. He’s flashed some true play making ability. It’s just been few and far between. But, it’s not like he’s been getting a bunch of touches and failing. He just wasn’t getting on the field much and when he did the ball wasn’t coming to him. I have no idea if he was getting open with any regularity, but I do know that (aside from a fumble or two his rookie year) every time he’s gotten the ball in his hands he’s made a play. Plus that offense last year was so damned dysfunctional it’s almost impossible to accurately evaluate any of the skill position players.
It’s he has played as expected – he wouldn’t need a “make or break” year. Since he does need a “make or break” season – wouldn’t that mean – he’s been a letdown?
No, I would say it just means that he needs to now solidify a role. His rookie deal is winding down. He has done some nice things for a young guy but hasn’t gone out and grabbed a long term position.
At this point in his career he will need to prove that he can be a consistent and reliable threat to really meet his potential. Otherwise he will get a small deal and be a gadget contributor and special teams staple. It can go either way.
UFC Irish legend to retire…!
think thats for real? maybe seeing his buddy beat a man, who later died of injuries on the mat, really freaked him out..
Wow, you have a link to that story?
Not hard to find.. Happened a week or two ago, but in a smaller organization, not the UFC. His teammates beat a kid who later died(think his name was Carvahlo)..lMcGreggor was at the event…. But I don’t think he is really retiring. Either trolling, or in the middle of contract negotiation with the UFC… nate Diaz also made a twitter joke about retiring after mcGreggor
i figured he was pulling a power-play for more money.
cant believe that for a second, too much money left on the table
Too many people think Conor is stupid, which to me seems like a huge mistake.
If he in any way is starting to feel punch drunk, I have a feeling he is smart enough to quit despite the money. A functioning brain is priceless.
Still dont really believe he’s done, but not as unlikely as people make it out to seem.
Doubt he is pulling out of his UFC 200 big money rematch that is already scheduled ..nate didnt take his tweet serious
I could totally see him just peace-ing the fuck out if he was having trouble with his brain.
Listeting to Rogan talking about former fighters who now just has mush where their brains used to be, its frightening man. I dont know what i’d do if I literally lost my mind, but I’d have a real easy decision about nope-ing the fuck out of having my brain smashed.
Many other options if they stay at #8 besides Jack. Round #7 flyer or UDFA? Sure, why not?
Hearing the Jack injury is overblown, someone spreading a nasty rumor hoping he’ll drop. He’s fine.
Doubtful. Everyone has access to those medical reports. GMs aren’t listening to other GMs for medical advice about Jack. They already know what they need to know, and what other clubs/people are saying matters literally zero.
Exactly. Not one team is getting their medical reports from Twitter.
wait that’s not what analytics means?
Idk man that sounds like something the Bengals might do.
Yea … it just doesn’t make sense to me that teams would even think that was something that would work and would be worth doing. Who knows…maybe Jack wants to play for a specific team and is spreading the rumors himself hoping he drops. That seems just as un/likely a scenario to me as a team trying to force him to drop to them by spreading twitter rumors about the health of his knee when every other organization has a team of doctors providing accurate medical advice to them.
Not worth the risk at #8
OTOH, exec ripping the report says they aren’t taking a LB so of course they want him to be gone.
How is he fine if multiple teams are out on him?
I don’t think they are. Just catty rumors
Exactly. Teams being “out” on him could 100% be a rumor started by a team who wants him to drop to them.
That does seem like the most likely scenario for this rumor, but that also seems insane to me as well. Does whoever is starting this rumor really think that the 4 or 5 other billion dollar enterprises that invest ridiculous amounts of money and have full medical staffs on the payroll examining every part of his knee are gullible enough to be scared off by an unsubstantiated twitter rumor? And, how shitty is it to mess with someone’s living like that, potentially costing them a bunch of money by trying to fraudulently get them to be selected later in the draft for your own benefit? If I got drafted by a team that I found out was spreading lies about my health to get me to fall to their pick, I’d immediately want nothing to do with them and would ask for a trade.
All you have to do is get one team jumpy and you’ve accomplished your mission. And there is no downside.
This isn’t a black and white situation. Some teams would love for other teams to take Jack so their guy can get pushed down.
Yeah I dont get why people still assume everything they hear is real this time of yeàr. We are probably better off ignoring every report and just going by gut… They don’t call it silly season for nothing
It honestly doesn’t make sense medically that a meniscus tear would ever be a ticking time bomb. The meniscus is just a rubbery disk that sits on top of the tibia and cushions the impact of the femur on the tibia. It has absolutely and literally no function other than absorbing force. It’s not like a ligament or a tendon that holds the knee together and stabilizes or effects anything to do with speed or agility or cutting.
If you tear it, it can cause some pain and if there’s a free flap that’s hanging off it can cause clicking or even momentary locking of the knee. But, the surgical treatment for a meniscus tear is to basically go into the knee with a scope and a drill bit and shave off any torn parts that are hanging off and effecting the knee. It’s so not a body part that’s integral to the function of the knee that if you hurt it an orthopedic surgeon essentially removes a whole bunch of it and shaves it down and you go right back to functioning normally.
Shave off enough of the meniscus and you’ll start to lose the function that it does provide which is protecting the bones of the knees from pounding against each other. It’s essentially just a shock absorber. This again doesn’t necessarily hamper your ability to run, jump, cut, ect, it just predisposes you to getting arthritis in that joint.
Players like Westbrook, for example, dealt with this very issue. In fact, many many players deal with this issue. A study of football players evaluated at the NFL Combine showed that partial meniscectomies are the most common surgeries players have undergone earlier in their careers. Every time you hear about a player just having a minor knee scope to clean things out a bit. This is what they are talking about. Westbrook’s knee cartilage (his meniscus) kept wearing out and every offseason he’d have an orthopedic surgeon go in with a scope and shave it down. Eventually, he ends up with arthritic knees due to the bone on bone pounding, but as we all remember he had no problem whatsoever running around and making ridiculous cuts his entire career. He just had to limit the amount of pounding his knee took during the week so it didn’t swell up on him or cause him too much pain.
It’s possible that Jack’s tear was particularly significant, but you can technically still be a fully functioning football player even if the surgeon took out your entire meniscus. We all remember Jeremiah Trotter playing an entire career with bone on bone because he lost the majority of his menisci (he also had multiple ACL tears as well). After surgery for a torn meniscus most elite athletes return to practice within one to two weeks and regain full function. If the meniscus is repaired (sown back together) recovery is a lot longer, about 3-5 months, but if it heals the player gets to keep his shock absorbers and hopefully avoid early arthritis. If part or all of the meniscus is removed players still function just fine, but 60% of them end up with early onset arthritis…which hurts, causes swelling and requires players to limit the pounding and stress they put on the joint, but shouldn’t be a concern to cause debilitating decrease in function over the relatively short (6-8 years) career of the typical football player.
If Jack doesn’t have much in the way of a meniscus he’ll most likely start to develop some arthritis by the time he’s 28-30 years old. Big whoop. Unless there’s some other issue that I haven’t seen reported I can’t think of why anyone would refer to it as a ticking time bomb.
Good News Guys!
That doesn’t rule out a move to Brasilia.
Nor Germany!
i’ll believe it when allbright doesn’t post it
What’s this in reference to?
Albright tweeted today to somebody asking about Cox being included in a trade to Cleveland that “he was told flat out Cox is not on the trading block”
Jimmy responded “no shit it was litterally the highlight of the presser yesterday”.
Albright then responded that he had mentioned it during his weekly hit with Innes, so Jimmy is just trashing him for making very safe proclamations and then chest pumping about it.
They’re both kids.
Cover all bases and claim I’m correct Albright.
fwiw Jags beat writer , I assume he’s referring to Kiper.
https://twitter.com/ryanohalloran/status/722523799556657152
only cuz they know ramsey’s gone by then
Not sure about that.. I think QB’s end up going 1 and 2, and Tunsil is a great fit for the Chargers over King fecking Dunlap their current LT.
After that all they need is for Dallas to go in a different direction that Ramsey and he will be available at 5.
Dunlap hasn’t even been all that bad for the Chargers.
Yeah doubt the Chargers take a tackle at #3
1. if dallas gets ramsey i’m gonna shit
2. picking jack over ramsey would be, in my mind, insane. best LB in the world still doesn’t have the impact that an elite player on the back end can have. i understand jack’s versatility and skill but there’s just no way he’d be used as much as ramsey. and then the injury concern would be a tiebreaker even if all else was equal.
Until they get some type of edge rushers their secondary wont stand a chance. dallas may have the weakest edge rushers in the league… But I’d rather not see Ramsey in a cowboy jersey. Dallas should draft DL with its first 3 picks, but they wont
But aren’t they both injured? Or risk?
To be fair, you are going to shit anyway. We all shit, embrace it (not literally).
I think the Chargers like their tackles more than we do andwill end up replacing Weddle with Ramsey or drafting a pass rusher.
..
If Cleveland doesnt take Tunsil, I think he will become a Jaguar, unless the Raves swap with the Cowboys and take Tunsil 4th while Cowboys move to 6 for Zeke, Buckner or Bosa..
..
Thinking Tunsil ends up in Cleveland, Jaguars or Ravens
That would be a fun system in which to place Jack.
So the Browns are now shopping the #2 pick. I’m sure Brown is on the phone with people saying how “Mr. Haslem says we have to let Robert be the starter.”
If Cleveland is told to go pound sand by teams; who do they take at 2?
My bet is Elliot.
Tunsil, assuming that they end up trading joe Thomas during the draft
Ramsey
Who do you say the top eight or top 10 Pixar? Like who would be the consensus Top 10 Prospects?
I’m not that into Pixar films, maybe somebody with elementary school aged kids could help you? Or some millennials.
I like Pixar but hate that they’ve made 3D kids-mode animation completely obligatory for any big budget animation releases. Everything has to be cutesy. No more Lion King & Studio Ghibli
1. The Incredibles
2. Toy Story
3. Up
4. Monsters, Inc.
5. Inside Out
6. Finding Nemo
7. Toy Story 2
8. Toy Story 3
I loved Monsters, Inc. I think that should be in the top 3.
Frozen & soundtrack & broadway
Lion King also
No Wacko’s Wish? Watch some film, man.
https://twitter.com/ArifHasanNFL/status/721720882100617216
I was totally just trying to be a doosh but really preesh the answers .. that one has carson wentz at 10 ..what ?
The Eagles better not mess up my draft party. I won’t take it if Howie decides to move up to No.2 basically ending my annual drinking festival at 8.30pm already.
Need to be physically and mentally prepared though, which means hitting the bar at 5:59pm sharp!!!
Hanging tough for all 31* picks is obligatory.
Ha. Not sure if my wife checks the draft picks though. Since she’s got the Eagles app I might struggle with a lie that the Eagles traded down to #32 OVR, coming home to bed at midnight instead?!
No, you say there were rumors the Eagles might trade back into the first round for #32. You had to wait and find out.
Well played sir.
Alex Marvez saying IF Eagles and Browns do a trade talked-about compensation is 2016 1st, both 2016 3rds, and 2017 1st and 3rd.
Some confusion though as his initial tweet and how he’s talking on radio sounds like Eagles just giving up one of the 2016 3rds but he responded yes to someone who asked if deal included both 2016 3rds. The way the tweet he responded to was worded, it’s possible he misread it.
Just. Do. It. NOT!!!
Too much. Based on points it is 8, one 3rd, and 2017 1.
If Cleveland doesn’t like that they can go f themselves.
How about they can go f themselves already?!
For a pick worth 2600; they want
1400 for pick 8, 205 for 77, 195 for 79, 975 for the 16.5th pick in 2017, and 187.5 for the 80.5th pick in 2017.
2600 < 2962.5
So the extra appx 362 is us keeping pick 79 this year and our 3rd next year. That is 382.5.
So they can get another 20.5 points back from us via our 6th next year.
There isn’t a consensus on how future picks are valued. Some say that a 2017 1st should be valued the same as a pick halfway between pick 16 and 17 in the current draft. Some have said that a future pick has a one-round devaluation compared to a current year’s pick so next year’s 1st rd pick should be valued around the 8th pick in the 2nd if you assume the Eagles would have the same record. From tweeting with Dan Hatman, he said that disagreement has been an issue since the newer, non-Jimmie Johnson trade charts came out around 2006 or so. He said in general you assume a value between pick 16/17 and then agree to a discounted value based on it being a next year pick. The exact amount that the next year’s pick is disvalued is negotiated between the teams. I’d think how the team that is receiving the future pick views the talent level and likely record/draft position of the other team the next year is significant.
I’ll correct my statement. They can use JJ chart and assume the 16th/17th value of the actual round of the pick……………….or they can go f themselves twice.
If I’m Cleveland, I’m trying to use the TEN-LA trade as a reference frame and claim it set market value.
TEN gave up: 1st overall(3000 pts), 110(74), 177(20.2) = 3094.2 pts
LA gave up – 15th overall(1050 pts), 43(470), 45(450), 76(210), 2017 1st and 3rd
If the teams stipulate to the assumption that both teams gave up equal value then based upon the combined point value of the 2016 picks LA gave up(2180), then that sets the market value of a 2017 1st and 3rd as 914.2 points. Now I know you can make arguments that Cleveland is more desperate to move down and shouldn’t expect the same market value that TEN received and that LA’s current roster is better(counter-argument is they play in a stronger division) and thus the Eagles’ 2017 picks are likely to be higher in the round than LA’s but for now let’s just go with that.
CLE’s pick at 2 has a pt value of 2600(assuming Jimmy Johnson trade chart). Pick 8 overall has a value of 1400 pts. If we assign the 2017 1st and 3rd combo a value of 914.2 pts then without taking into account 2016 3rd/s(?) then you reach a pt value of 2314.2 points. This leaves 285.8 points to reach the value of the #2 pick. Pick 77 in Rd 3 this yr has a pt value of 205 pts while pick 99 has a pick value of 195 points. Giving up just pick 77 is a little short of required value but I’d argue is sufficient because of the other factors listed above. Giving up both 3rds would be overpaying.
Thank you for the additional breakdown, but I’m giving them 8, 77, 2017 first, and something small or I’m daring them to trade with somebody else…………because I know they’re not taking Wentz. And if the clock runs out and they take Ramsey or Elliot; I’m on the phone with San Diego and they can be reasonable for 2200 points worth of a trade.
I like your style… Howie’s pretty smart, but you should make yourself available just in case
Howie is already saying this. I just think Cleveland is trying to sell the pick, so I’d play hardball.
I’m sure he is… And agree
They do have other potential trade partners.
This whole thing is a game of chicken… Troubling thing is that I’m not sure Cleveland has much incentive to pull the trigger before draft night, when the bidding could get furious
Teams talk about hypothetical trades all the time. It doesn’t necessarily mean either team would pull the trigger.
This report could also be leaked by CLE to see if another team is willing to offer that approximate value(comparatively based on where CLE is trading to) or more.
Drafting higher than 8 and willing to overpay? If so; go for it.
I have no idea what the 49ers are thinking. I ? Chip liking either Goff(small hands) or Wentz(small school) but who knows how the Chip-Baalke dynamic will play out. They have to be considered a candidate to move up.
See, I heard the opposite from a few people on Sirius NFL today. They said Balke isn’t a guy who would move up when his team has so many roster holes.
The Niners need players everywhere
https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/722212768074592257
Different analysts will have different opinions.
#Albrightfacts
How are you figuring it may I ask? Its 1200 points difference. 2600- 1400 = 1200. Next years first is equal to a 2nd this year or do you have points for next year’s picks. I don’t have that.. That’s 470 pts using the 43rd pick + 215 pts for pick 75. That’s 685 pts. That leaves 400- 500 – 600 pts.
Price is usually higher when QBs involved also though not etched in stone.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/
And (sorry for posting twice)
For a pick worth 2600; they want
1400 for pick 8, 205 for 77, 195 for 79, 975 for the 16.5th pick in 2017, and 187.5 for the 80.5th pick in 2017.
2600 < 2962.5
So the extra appx 362 is us keeping pick 79 this year and our 3rd next year. That is 382.5.
So they can get another 20.5 points back from us via our 6th next year.
ok thanks. That’s cool. I always went one round lower.
That is a way you can do it, but I’m in a mood to drive a hard bargain on this. I don’t think Cleveland has anybody higher than 8 asking them.
That’s debated by teams. Is 2017 1st worth between picks 16/17 in 2016 or does it get a 1-rd devaluation to worth of 2nd round pick. Not all teams agree. They tend to meet somewhere in middle.
I sure f-ing hope not
Exactly. That’s highway robbery.
No way it’s both 3rds… This isn’t Chip’s war room we’re talking about here
So let’s say I gave Cleveland 8, 79, and the 2017 first for #2 (because they accepted it)
Round 1 Pick 2 (CLE): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 3 Pick 14: Karl Joseph, SS/FS, West Virginia (A)
Round 4 Pick 2: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B+)
Round 5 Pick 14: Kolby Listenbee, WR, TCU (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Josh Ferguson, RB, Illinois (A)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyrone Holmes, OLB, Montana (C+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Deiondre’ Hall, CB, Northern Iowa (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Caleb Benenoch, OT, UCLA (B-)
And just for giggles I ran it a 2nd time. Cleveland took the deal again, but I traded down from 77 to make sure I did better with the o line.
Round 1 Pick 2 (CLE): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 3 Pick 26 (PITT): Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B)
Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (B+)
Round 4 Pick 25 (PITT): Jonathan Williams, RB, Arkansas (A+)
Round 5 Pick 14: Kolby Listenbee, WR, TCU (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Matt Ioannidis, DT, Temple (A-)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyrone Holmes, OLB, Montana (C+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Deiondre’ Hall, CB, Northern Iowa (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Doug Middleton, FS, Appalachian State (A)
Where is my rb?
Which one do you want? I got Ferguson from Illinois in first one and Williams from Arkansas in the 2nd.
Did you want Dixon? He was gone in both of these.
Anyone bro! I just know Matthews won’t make it and Barner, well……..
I’d be good with most of that. But I think they probably trade down with at least one of these two picks if they move up to 2.
Round 3 Pick 14: Karl Joseph, SS/FS, West Virginia (A)
Round 4 Pick 2: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B+)
Agreed. So I traded from down from 77 when I ran the simulation again.
Ha. I missed that.
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 2 (CLE): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Darian Thompson, FS, Boise State (C)
Round 4 Pick 13 (DET): Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (A-)
Round 5 Pick 12 (DET): Tyler Ervin, RB, San Jose State (A)
Round 5 Pick 14: Joe Schobert, OLB/ILB, Wisconsin (B)
Round 5 Pick 25: Charone Peake, WR, Clemson (A)
Round 5 Pick 30 (DET): Matt Ioannidis, DT, Temple (A)
Round 6 Pick 13: Peyton Barber, RB, Auburn (F)
Round 7 Pick 12: Mike Thomas, WR, Southern Mississippi (A)
Round 7 Pick 30: Caleb Benenoch, OT, UCLA (B-)
Why the hell is Darian Thompson a “C” in the third?!?! Hes a borderline 1st rounder imo.
If we were to trade up to 2 is there any chance we trade Bradford? I know we would eat a bunch of money this year, but would be free and clear of his contract next year.
Denver
NYJ
49ers
What would the compensation look like if one of these teams were interested?
Foles and a 2nd.
Highly Highly Highly doubt that. First, teams like the Eagles don’t just go into the offseason flying by the seat of their pants, they have a plan and attempt to execute that plan as best as possible. No team would ever want to hand someone $22million dollars guaranteed and then turn around and trade that player a matter of weeks after doing so. That simply just doesn’t make any financial sense. If trading him to move up for a QB was part of the plan they could have just slapped the franchise tag on him, controlled his rights and traded him with no financial hit whatsoever.
Second, there’s more cost to trading Bradford than just the cap hit. We forget that these are people with families and lives and hopes and dreams just like anybody else. Bradford was a free agent this offseason. He could have signed anywhere that he chose to sign for any amount of money that he agreed to with another team. He chose to sign with the Eagles and they publicly and I’m sure privately assured him that he was their starting QB. If you as a team sign a FA (the only time in these players career when they have any say in where they go or who they play for or where they live) and then immediately turn around and trade them to a team like Cleveland who Bradford has already in the past said he would never sign with, that is going to rub a lot of players the wrong way. No one is going to want to trust the back stabbing Philadelphia Eagles and sign a FA contract here.
Not like if you trade Bradford to the Broncos that his dreams and hopes suddenly vanish….
Plus being reunited with Sanchez feels so good.
Interesting note on Dak Prescott’s pre-draft visit with Eagles:
http://www.nfl.com/labs/rr/pathtothedraft/prescott?campaign=tw-cf-sf24669760-sf24669760
That is interesting, although I was hoping they were having him take reps at H-back.
According to Alex Marvez of Fox Sports, the Eagles and Browns have set the framework for a potential trade involving the No. 2 pick.
Per Marvez, the Eagles would give up first and third round picks in 2016 and
2017. The Eagles are reportedly enamored with North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz and they’ll probably have to trade up to No. 2 to get him. Then again, the Eagles have also shown keen interest in Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott, who they might be able to grab at No. 8. If the two sides can’t reach an agreement, the Eagles could try trading up to No. 3. NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reported Tuesday that the Chargers are shopping their pick.
See below.
yeah thought it was something different, but this makes me think not the extra third.
In short – the Eagles may or may not move. Either way, they get a pick. Good stuff…..
John Middlekauff
@JohnMiddlekauff
3m3 minutes ago
John Middlekauff Retweeted Justin Fang
Above 50%
John Middlekauff added,
Justin Fang
@fang_justin
@JohnMiddlekauff how likely do you think it is that eagles trade up to 2
3 retweets
3 likes
Joe Banner tweeted that if he was Eagles fan he wouldn’t believe rumors of tradeup cost. Seems like he doesn’t think it will cost as much as Marvez suggested.
That price is insane.
It can’t possible be that high.
It’s not really insane. It’s a slight overpay. Read my long-ass post below.
It is not worth it. And I read all of your long-ass posts!
Swap firsts, give up ONE of the 3rds, a 5th, and next year’s first and I’d be okay with the compensation.
would you be ok w the player?
If they truly believe in who they will acquire with that 2nd pick, I would be okay with it.
Also the fact that this is out now, so the trade is most likely not true.
Marvez most likely got his source with the Browns, so it seems it would be their asking price and not anything close to what the Eagles will give.
看看！
Shady McCoy + Byron Maxwell + 1st 2016 + 3rd 2016 + 3rd 2016 + 1st 2017 + 3rd 2017 = Wentz / Goff
Lol.
Brandon Lee Gowton
@BrandonGowton
4m4 minutes ago
“I don’t think the price is as being reported. It may be close but that’s not exactly the terms of the trade.” – Schefter on Eagles-Browns
6 retweets
1 like
Brandon Lee Gowton
@BrandonGowton
3m3 minutes ago
“I think if it were up to the Eagles the deal would be done today.” –
Schefter on potential Eagles-Browns trade.
Really does sound like this is happening.
Thanks for following.
….
Question though – almost feels like trading now is too late. Meaning — are the Eagles settling for their 2nd choice at QB? Nobody knows 100% who the Eagles are targeting(or the Rams). Sounds like they tried for number 1 and pulled out. Now going after number 2. Smells of desperation….unless Eagles aren’t thinking QB????
Is Tunsil worth a trade up?
I was thinking defense :).
Ramsey?
🙂
Obviously just spitballing, and probably showing my bias, but I take all this as 1) the Browns trying to drum up interest, and 2) the Eagles being coy about their involvement so as to encourage someone else to trade up and take Wentz at 2, thereby making it more likely the guy(s) they really like fall to 8.
If this rumor is, in fact, true – there seems to be 0 reason for it to be consummated until the Rams make their pick, for either side.
Just over a week left!
exactly. Why the need to do this now? If you have something in place — just wait…
I’m torn with the possible trade. I like Sam’s skill set and feel we would be giving up a lot to get an unknown quantity at QB. After watching Hackenberg on Gruden’s QB camp last night, it’s pretty easy to see how shitty coaching and a lack of talent can kill a QB’s production, which seemed to be a large factor for his lack of success in St. Louis (injuries aside).
However, Tom Condon squeezed Howie for $18M to get Sam back in the fold for another year or two. If Sam plays good football going forward (not necessarily franchise-caliber), Condon would be holding Howie hostage for $20M+. Unless Sam truly becomes a franchise QB, his contract will become a hindrance to the cap with little value added.
On the flip side, there is something about having a shiny new rookie to who can be groomed into a franchise QB. It was exciting times being an Eagles fan when Donny was a young, ascending player and buzz around the team was that every year the expectations were higher than the year before. Remember Andy’s 5-year plan or Donny? In year 6, Donny led us to the Superbowl. Great times being an Eagles fan during his ascension.
Gone are the days of guys like Rodgers (24th), Flacco (18th) and Roethlisberger (11th) falling out of the top ten. Top 10 picks don’t grow on trees for successfully run franchises that rarely finish in the bottom third of the league standings. The Eagles have had 4 top 10 picks since 1992; by contrast, the Rams have had 7 top 10 picks in the past 10 years.
While playing playing devil’s advocate, I can see both scenarios backfiring. However, I can also see either scenario playing out as a long-term success. Being an eternal optimist, I have pretty much talked myself into being happy with either decision the front office makes.
Trying to parse through all the information and there has to be some gaming here.
Pederson has said that he is like Andy Reid and likes to build via the OL/DL in the 1st (high). Yet, all the talk is about Goff/Wentz/Elliott.
Could this all be a smokescreen and they like Stanley at #8? Or could the trade up be for Tunsil who would give us bookend tackles for like another 10 years?
There’s a lot of things being said that kind of don’t add up, and now that Greg posted that the Eagles had Dak Prescott simulate a press conference – why would we give up our 3rds if that’s probably where he’d be targeted. Or maybe it was leaked purposely to make it seem they had “special” interest in him.
Next thursday can’t get here soon enough. I can’t handle this anymore.
Good point. I’ve been thinking this for a few weeks now myself. It seems crazy that for the first time since Lurie bought the team, the entire media seems to know exactly what the Eagles want to do in the draft (outside of drafting Donny in 1999). Why would Howie allow everyone to know we are desperate for Goff/Wentz?
Think that was not quite Andy’s MO to be fair, I think it was OL/DL/QB/CB and he will work the rest out. was not in a situation to invest much draft capital in QB’s and didn’t need to when we had McNabb so that is somewhat forgotten and Andy did take CB’s in the 1st as well.